Best of Moxie – Are Divorced Men Worth Dating?

Name: Shenanigans | Location: East Coast , USA |Question: A recent post prompted me to write. I understand that all of us need to be honest with ourselves about what we have to offer in relationship and our “value” on the market. I’d love to get some feedback on this and see if others have experienced the same.

Divorced guys with decent jobs seem to have a VERY inflated idea of their value, and seem rather dismissive of woman who actually have it more together than they do. Many divorced guys have told me, in one way or another, that they consider themselves a pretty good “catch”. Here’s a basic rundown of who they generally are: mid to late 40’s, salary in the the low to mid 100k range, one or more kids, paying alimony, child support and possibly college, an ex who is some way either emotionally or financially dependent. Dating such a person means: being financially independent yourself so you can split costs or reciprocate in the same dollar range, because he does not have the money to treat you (his generosity flows elsewhere, though you are sleeping with him); either not being integrated with his kids/family, or if you are, enduring their hostility; putting up with the intrusions of the ex; listening to what a great “lifestyle” he had with the ex, which must be maintained for her sake and the kids'; having his caretaking go to the ex or the kids (if he’s fixing the ex’s washer, he certainly doesn’t feel like helping out with yours). They make huge alimony payments so the ex can take her boyfriend out to dinner, while making sure you have paid your turn on the overpriced dinner go-round, though you probably don’t earn as much.

I find these men feel entitled to an attractive, sexually satisying, financially independent, emotionally available woman to whom they owe very little. Is it some kind of convoluted payback for the years they “put up with” a bad marriage? I don’t really understand.

I’ve actually considered my value as a partner and have made
decisions to better my position. I have a good job, spend under my means and have no debt but a mortgage, am building my retirement. I have a daughter who is young and I make sure her needs are met emotionally, but I feel it is reasonable to have a romantic partner in my life and I don’t feel guilty about it. It means balancing things in a fair way so that I have something to give a partner. What I have found is that my desire to be generous has really receded when I see what these entitled divorced guys have to offer. I sometimes wonder– why would I take one of them on?

Have others had similar experiences? |Age: 42

As we get older, the list of concessions we need to make in relationships grow. Now, I’m not saying that you should settle for a guy who would fix his ex’s washing machine but refuse to fix yours. That’s just douchey. But you have to realize that if a man is divorced and has kids, you bet he’s paying out the ass because he’s likely the one who left in the first place. Divorce is a woman’s game. It just is. Especially if there are children involved. So, yeah, you’re going to find a large number of men in your desired age range who are now like men coming back from war. They are burnt out, broken down and broke. They’re not the man they used to be pre-divorce. Some are bitter, most are disiilusioned. If you know of any divorce lawyers or men who are divorced, ask them what they went through.

Those men might very well be “a catch” to certain women. They’re just not a catch to you. Many other women would understand why they might tend to a broken washer (he’s doing it for the kids more than the wife) or why their kids might be less than welcoming.  You seem to want a divorced man who’s interested in raising someone else’s child, who had an amicable divorce, who still believes in marriage,  who’s ex wife is out of the picture despite sharing children with him and who wasn’t taken to the cleaners. Good luck with that.

We’re 40+. The men we date are way, way past the “men pay for everything” phase. They’ve done that. If they’re divorced and paying out the ass, then you bet they’re looking to get involved with a woman who is self-sufficent because he can’t afford to pay for a wife and a girlfriend. Nor do they want to find themselves in another position where they marry a woman who is financially dependant on him. And since there are children involved, those kids will always come first. You could always choose to date only divorced men who don’t have kids or men who have never been married. But, with age comes baggage. We all have it.

You have to understand that if we were all baggage free, then most of us wouldn’t be single/divorced in our forties. (Some, as we’ve discussed, are in their forties and single by choice.)  It’s great that you have your life together, but don’t make the mistake that so many women make. Don’t take the characteristics that you feel make you such a great catch and assume that men hold them at an equal or higher value. They don’t. Especially if they’re coming out of a brutal divorce. At that point, they just want someone who isn’t nagging them or after their money.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

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40 Responses to “Best of Moxie – Are Divorced Men Worth Dating?”

  1. Bud Says:

    Pursuing a relationship of love and peace will have each person taking the focus off of themselves.

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  2. Stephanie Says:

    Depressing…but oh so true.

    Question: why must we assume everyone who is single and in their 40’s “has baggage?” Is it possible that maybe we were focused elsewhere and didn’t make coupling up a priority? Too much time with the “wrong” person? Not met the “right” person? Or any number of other rational reasons that have been highlighted in this blog before? Does anyone agree that through these experiences some of us may have learned and become our best selves and therefore more ready for a healthy relationship? I for one can say I’m a much better partner than I was in my 20’s & 30’s. Just wondering…

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    • Trish Says:

      I’m in agreement.

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    • Paula Says:

      Because we make all kinds of assumptions about everyone we meet. It’s a human trait (and not one of our best ones) to bunch large groups of things into smaller categories for easier processing and comprehension.

      And I haven’t met a never-married guy in his 40s without baggage, so even if everything you say is true, Stephanie (which I believe it can be), in my book it’s still as elusive as the ivory-billed woodpecker, even if you believe one was discovered in Arkansas a few years ago.

      I’ve got my baggage too, so I want to be with someone who’s been in relationships during the good times and bad, and knows what he wants enough to stay the course with someone, rather than running when something doesn’t meet his ideal. The 40s single guys I know without mental health issues are still on the run. But maybe there’s someone out there to prove me wrong.

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    • Dale B. Says:

      I agree completely, I made a terrible mistake when I did not see through the façade of my ex-wife until 8 years into marriage and three beautiful children. I waited until my thirties to get married and have children with what I thought would be the last women for me’ for whom the one I would grow old with. Now in my early 40’s she turned out to be no where near the women her academy award performance showed over 8 years but the total opposite and nearly the worst person I have ever met in my life. How three Angels could have come from her is a miracle in it’s self. So now the pretender sits in jail for the next few years and I have taken my three children and moved on. 8g,6b,4b are the only things bright in my life and I spend many nights thinking about choices, 1. Stay single at least until the last of my children heads off to college and only then start looking for “That” women, or 2. and seemingly much harder looking for an older women who is willing to come into a ready made family. See I did this with my ex. When we got together she had two young daughters with no father, I took them, raised them and love them like my own. Since divorcing their Mother we no longer have contact but I will always love them. But I know first hand what a big deal it is moving into a ready made family and at my age and an older women we are much wiser than we were in our 20-30’s. Play the cards your dealt, I always do but this is not the life I imagined growing up nor how my “Perfect Plan” was suppose to play out. To the above post I do have some baggage if you want to call my children baggage, but I also have a soul full of love that has not been tapped due to my ex, I would make a women very happy, secure, and faithful that is if I get the chance. I would say never pass on someone for any reason without getting to know them for who they are before considering the baggage issue. Sometimes that “Baggage” can be that special glue to bond two people for life.

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  3. Brenna Says:

    I have to agree with a lot of the original post. As a 35 year old divorced single mother with a very good job, my own place and have independence I feel dating in the Boston Metro area to be extremely difficult. Its not only divorced men, but also single men. I don’t want to give up on finding love, but sometimes I feel very defeated. I want to find happiness in a stable relationship, but sometimes I feel like iam asking the world of these men.

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  4. chillybeans Says:

    I am divorced myself and was under the mistaken impression that it would be better to date divorced guys (with/without kids)because they would “get my situations” and understand better.Wrong!
    My experience with divorced men was somewhat similar to yours. Divorced men have a much harder time moving on than women, the men I found (maybe just my bad luck)were all still hung up on their ex-wives(even the ones divorced for YEARS). Most divorces are initiated by women, who have better support systems in place to help them deal with it(friends, they are more likely to seek therapy etc). Divorced men start dating WAY too soon (6 weeks for one guy I dated) and are not emotionally ready. The excuse for this is “I wanted to get laid”
    Under the whole “you don’t know what you’ve got til its gone” theory-once they are divorced and lose the security of their family, their way of dealing with it is to continue living emotionally in the past. One guy (whose ex wife was remarried twice and had certainly moved on) said all his kids wanted was for him to walk thru the door every day after work-he really still believed in that possibility.
    They will try to recreate this married life in part-they want another wife but just to cook for them, sleep with them, take care of their emotional needs, be there for them-but are withholding with what they offer YOU-in other words want what they had in their marriage without the commitment. And someone to vent to about the evil EX who is bleeding them dry.
    I really don’t believe all divorced guys are like this-but I think a big reason this particular type did get divorced is that they weren’t giving/loving/open in their marriage. And of course they can’t see it,though they do see themselves as a great catch. About the whole $$ thing-one guy I dates always complained about paying, treating etc, however when he wanted something expensive for himself it never seemed to be an issue. Some (cheap) mean will just use it as an excuse.
    It’s close to impossible to be in your 40s and not date some of them-but you have to watch for the warning signs…..

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      “I think a big reason this particular type did get divorced is that they weren’t giving/loving/open in their marriage.”

      If you want to understand the mind of a divorced man, don’t look to why they got divorced. Look to why they got married in the first place.

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  5. Vox Says:

    Divorce is a woman’s game. It just is.
    Kindly inform the state of PA of this fact, so I dump my tiny Brooklyn apartment and can go back to owning a nice three bedroom house.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3

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    • chillybeans Says:

      divorce is a lawyer’s game-not a man or woman.Most states will favor women, esp. mothers, but if you are outlawyered good luck…..

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    • Paula Says:

      Divorce is a game in favor of the the party who earns less and/or has the least career prospects. That traditionally was the woman, but isn’t as much any more.

      From a legal standpoint, especially if you’re in a state with community property, the effect of marriage is to make your financial stake 50/50, regardless of what each partner started with. That, and the kids and lawyers have to be provided for first. So if you think you can go back to making what you were making before the marriage and hanging onto it, chances are the divorce has permanently altered that equation, or at least changed it for a very long time.

      Then there’s the expense of getting someone to comply with the divorce decree if they don’t choose to…that’s what screwed me. I had decided to let it go, but just learned my ex is engaged. I must be crazy to think he should pay off his debts from his first marriage before embarking on another one…

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  6. Diana Says:

    Your scenario sounds exactly like mine right now…same age, circumstances. I was a bit hesitant at first when I met J…he’s paying most of his salary over right now and his finances are a right mess. I’ve always dated men who paid for the majority of everything, but now, I kind of find it a bit satisfying to chip in. I guess I don’t have the sense of entitlement I did when I was younger. After all, I am 41. I have a decent job and am finishing up my degree as well. My only concern is his credit. It’s shot. I seriously worry about getting involved with someone who’s credit is so bad…thoughts??

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  7. Cathouse Teri Says:

    I wouldn’t be interested in a relationship with a person who considers themselves a pretty good catch, regardless of whether they have been divorced or not, etc. Their focus is wrong. (In short, I agree with the first commenter.)

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    • D Says:

      Hm. I do feel like sort of a catch, but not because of the stuff she mentions. I don’t have kids, make good money, am debt-free, cash in the bank etc.

      However, it took me a while to make the realization. I was an emotional mess after my divorce and went thru a rebound relationship that was even more wrenching. But then I went to therapy for a year and slowly got my head on straight. It was only through reminding myself of the basic facts that I started to realize that I have a really great life.

      @Cathouse Teri, you’d prefer a guy who feels like he’s just average and perhaps even a little insecure? In my experience most women don’t find that very attractive. I assume by “their focus is wrong” you mean they think they are self-absorbed. Everyone is self-absorbed to some degree. The relationships with the self is the most intimate one any of us will ever have. I’d prefer someone who likes themselves, even if they overvalue themselves a bit, than the opposite.

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      • Cathouse Teri Says:

        Yeah, that’s what I get for trying to make a simple statement. :)

        I definitely think insecure people have no business being in a relationship. It’s not only unattractive, but it makes one completely incompatible. So there’s that.

        It is my belief that all people should feel good about who they are. But when we move into the arena of what have to offer, I think we’ve turned it into a meat market which is an idea I am not at all pleased with. If that were the way it should be, then we could just show up with a list on the first date.

        I do have some simplistic ideas about what kind of ingredients should go into a healthy relationship. Especially in the beginning. So much is revealed in those first few contacts, yet we ignore so much of the obvious signs because we are sometimes a little too desperate to “make this one work” and eventually… to “make SOMETHING work.”

        But hey, different strokes, eh?

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  8. Trouble Says:

    Like all generalizations, this one has a nugget of fact behind it, but is also painting a huge group of people with a broad brush rather unfairly. I’ve met men like the ones mentioned in the OP. On the other hand, I hardly think it’s fair to say that they represent the sum total of divorced men in America today.

    I think it’s fairly easy to spot these men pretty early on, and next them. So, if you waste any time on them, that’s really kind of on you.

    I don’t believe that any helpful purpose is served by this sort of generalized whining about how much men suck in the 2011s, though. There are a lot of good men out there…when you let yourself get distracted by those who don’t have much to offer, you become jaded, negative, and pretty unattractive to the good ones.

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  9. Trouble Says:

    One other thing…there are just as many divorced women, FWIW, who have this same air of entitlement, hostility, and aren’t over their divorces. I was one of them, for a while. I spent a lot of time bitching about my ex and about men like my ex. It served no worthwhile purpose.

    When I actually started living again, and being happy in my life, and seeing the good in people again (it takes a minute), I started meeting good men.

    I think they were there all along. I just wasn’t seeing them, because of MY issues.

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  10. UESider Says:

    So many generalizations, so little time. I will just deal with this one:

    “being financially independent yourself so you can split costs or reciprocate in the same dollar range, because he does not have the money to treat you (his generosity flows elsewhere, though you are sleeping with him”

    So in other words, you expect to be compensated for sleeping with him. There used to be a term for that…

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “you expect to be compensated for sleeping with him. There used to be a term for that…” Trophy wife, perhaps?

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  11. Anonymous Says:

    Yes, alot of divorced men in their 40s are delusional. I dated one for awhile who had a crazy ex, 2 kids, jacked up credit and finances a mess. Yet he felt entitled to a hot, tight young thing. Good Luck with that!! i think most women in their 40’s can tolerate and work around the issues of the Ex of where he needs to be there for the kids & other things. Bottom line is stretches beyond what these men feel entitled too. I find they are in denial of their value.

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  12. amy Says:

    Assholes come in both genders. So do nice people. Haven’t we figured that out yet?

    I met my now-husband a bit after both of our marriages ended. He was struggling financially starting over (he was the one who moved out at the end of the marriage). I will say that seeing his struggles made me much more compassionate about my ex husband (who was also the one who moved out). My career was just starting to take off at that time, and I was very generous in helping my new boyfriend re-establish himself. Fast forward 10 years and we got married, now have been married for five. Then, as now, we don’t have expensive pastimes – we eat in, and enjoy having low cost adventures. I think it all depends on your focus. Again, as I said in the finances thread, I think this would be much harder to attain in an urban environment where everything is so expensive.

    His ex has been difficult, and at alternate times, so has mine.
    Kind of funny – my daughter got married last year and I paid for the wedding. Now his daughter is getting married and we are paying for her wedding. Neither of our ex’s would/could participate in the financial support of the weddings more than a pittance. I think that says a lot right there.

    Yes there have been stresses & challenges along the way. But we are so happy that it overshadows all the negatives.
    I’m a nice person, he’s a nice person. We both were married to assholes who treated us terribly. When we found each other, we set a goal to have peace in our relationship, and later, in our home. And it has been wonderful.

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  13. mari Says:

    My goal..peace in my home, have it with me and my kids, long term goal, with a guy too..

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  14. Crotch Rocket Says:

    I think divorced men have an over-inflated sense of their value primarily because they’ve been out of the dating scene for so long and don’t yet have a sense of where they fit in. They’re pretty much the same men they were before they got married except for age and income, but they focus on the latter’s value to women without considering how the former affects things as well–or all the other crap they’re likely burdened with after a divorce, e.g. child support, alimony, etc.

    OTOH, women coming out of a divorce seem to know they’re in trouble and start working out, dressing better and all the other things that they let slide after the wedding that could well have prevented the divorce in the first place…

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  15. Aldonza Says:

    Some guys really do have trouble moving on. Part of the problem is that these were the “marrying type” guys. Committed. “Betas” as the manosphere might derisively term them. They played by the rules. Married relatively young. Worked hard. Divorce threw them. They probably did contribute to the end of their marriage and some of them were even the ones to leave, but they seem to have a much harder time accepting it.

    So, a savvy woman wanting a commitment has learned to eschew the “alphas”, the players who never settled down because she knows they’re just good-time guys. She looks for the “betas”, the ones who are good fathers to their children, the guys who show their interest clearly, who don’t play around, who want to be a boyfriend fairly early on. Except…because they are the honorable types, they’re still committed to their past, their children, and yes, their exes, sometimes to the exclusion of you.

    There is no right answer. There are 40-something divorced women with kids who think they deserve 100% of the resources of a man for them and their children (usually in addition to the resources they get from the father.) And there are 40-something divorced men who feel that because they “gave at the office” they don’t have to invest anything more in a new relationship, but still expect all the perks (sex, meals, emotional intimacy) from his new one.

    Life doesn’t work that way. At a very basic level, unless you’re a raging codependent, there needs to be some parity between what you invest in a relationship and what you get out. If not, it’s destined to end badly.

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  16. Terry Says:

    I agree with the original poster (Shenanigans). It is sad to see that nowadays, there are hardly any good men left. Based on my own personal and very disenchanting and sad experience, the experience of my female friends, as well as all of the complaints that I hear from other women, both personally and online, I would say that 75-90% of all the men out there are cheaters (not monogamous). Hilariously enough, of these cheaters, 90% of them (at least the ones that I have been involved with, who were mostly earely to mid-50s in age range and one 70 year-old) are impotent (even with their little magic pills) — so what they think they have to offer a woman in the long run is beyond my comprehension! What they should be is GRATEFUL TO US that any one of us is even willing and pleased to be with them!

    They absolutely think they are a great catch and many of them expect the woman to treat them out (which I’ve never done and will NEVER do!), even if they don’t say so outright. So let’s look at this picture: the guy doesn’t want to engage in the traditional wooing practice (because he’s in too much of a hurry to just use the woman for sex and has no intention of possibly entering a loving and monogamous relationship with us even if we click and are compatible in all important areas), not being wooed means that I’m not going to be made to feel valued, appreciated, wanted, I’m not going to be made to feel like a feminine woman, I’m not going to be treated like a lady, I’m going to be cheated on by some fat guy who looks like a pregnant elephant that’s overdue by 10 months (most of the pictures I’ve seen and men who have approached me have unsightly guts and are bald), I’m going to be disrespected, on top of that, the guy is probably going to have some disgusting facial hair – a moustache that goes right into the nose hairs, a beard, hair coming out of the ears (60% of the men I see on profiles or that contact me have that gross fuzz on their face that makes them look either like a hermit who lives in the woods or that they’re just plain ungroomed, dirty, and don’t care what they look like), I’m going to have to put up with all sorts of other crap — and the dude still thinks HE is a catch?! They have to be out of their F’ing minds!

    Of course, all of this is due to 1) Women’s Lib telling women to spread their legs and F around without any heart connection from the man, 2) the atmosphere of casual sex that is pushed on us in present-day society (which MUST change!), 3) men not wanting to marry and not having to marry because women have casual sex with them, allowing themselves to be treated like prostitutes. Remember, ladies, that the ROLE PROSTITUTES served in society was to provide sex to the man with NO expectation that the man would LOVE them! Therefore, what have women done to themselves by pursuing men, throwing themselves at men, being willing to be treated as “F buddies” or “friends with benefits” (yuck, I hate that term!), and offering sex (sometimes even on an initial meeting or on the first few dates) to men? They have placed themselves in the role of prostitutes, except that at least a professional whore gets paid for her time and her services, and the women who behave like prostitutes but don’t get paid have nothing to show for it except a broken heart! Let me clarify, I certainly don’t advocate prostitution; I am merely using this as an analogy to underscore and emphasize my point. Having said that, if the guy has sex whenever he wants it because there is some ready female ready to spread eagle herself, he gets it all: his sexual wants are met, he still controls all of his free time to do whatever he wants (cheat, spank the weiner while watching porn, sports with his “buddies,” the continual and tiresome long-mileage bicycling, etc.). Guys don’t even need women nowadays for cooking and cleaning, as they have learned to adapt without us in that regard quite well.

    In closing, all I have to say is: Guys, GROW UP AND ACT LIKE REAL MEN, which means with morals, good values, ethics and honor! Women, act like ladies, which also means what I said for men — and stop having casual sex with them! If this is done, much of the evils, depression and disappointments in present-day society would disappear and most would be right with the world in the heart and happiness department!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 10

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    • Vox Says:

      A year ago, I wrote a long rant about the problems of dating middle-aged men, very similar to what the OP has to say as well as Terry’s posts. Someone sent me a private message asking me a simple question: If you do meet the perfect guy, exactly what do you have to offer him?

      The OP says she has a good job, no bad debts… but that is something that attracts women, not men. (Well it attracts loser men, but we don’t want those guys.) Terry has a pretty lengthy list of how men have nothing to offer. I think both of them – and really all middle aged women – need to be able to answer the question posed to me in order to have an easier chance of being in a successful relationship. Just showing up, being a woman doesn’t fly anymore. We aren’t cute 20-somethings so that’s out. So what else do you have?

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    • Saj Says:

      I wouldn’t put the non monogamous men in the 75% to 90% category. The numbers for that seem to be much lower to me and women are right up there with their failures to commit. I’d be worried though that the men Terry encounters seem to fall into that pattern which shows that what Terry is attracted to enough to go on a date with are men who all share these same entitled characteristics.

      Men using you are only a problem if you let them do it. Don’t want to pay for every date? Then don’t. Don’t want to have men invest zero emotional effort in order to sleep with you then don’t sleep with him until he does. If you aren’t afraid of these men walking then you still hold all of your power. You give what you want to give and only to those men who have shown that he is willing to give as well. Don’t follow your heart and swing for the fences in the hopes it will change a mans actions from indifferent to loving. He either shows that he is open emotionally and willing to form a bond with you or you walk. Men do not need months and months to figure this out. They are either in or they are out and fairly quickly.

      There are many really great guys out there but for some reason they are invisible to you.

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    • kbasd Says:

      Seriously, its 2011. These are the rules: If you stereotype and degrade men, guess what, the same happens to you, and your attitude is all wrong when it comes to attacting good men. About money, women can’t want to have the same financial opportunities as men and then want them to pay all the way date after date. Who did the inviting out is responsible for the bill. However, if it’s the third date and after, consideration is expected from the other party. Consideration means I invited you to dinner, I pay, we then go for drinks at the bar. You should offer to pick up at least one round of drinks. Men have been initiating all aspects of the dating environment for years. Equality means women get to initiate some of these aspects without other women being judgemental about them.

      What people need to understand is there is some truth in the statement that all the good ones are gone. If one is 40 something, female or male then one is going to have to work with what’s left and stop bitching about it, or end up with nothing.

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  17. Terry Says:

    Ladies, please, please, please go to: baggagereclaim.com. The woman who created the web site/blog (I believe she is a therapist from the UK) is absolutely AMAZING! Her articles are written in such a way as to make you think that she has been a fly on the wall observing our experiences with men. Her articles deal with just about every conceivable issue that I have experienced and they have been very helpful for me to get a perspective on when we are being used, strung along, used as the F buddy without even realizing it, etc., but most importantly HOW to get out of that type of situation.

    Replying to part of what Chillybeans said, some divorced men might be hung up on the ex-wife, or they might not really be – sometimes they pretend to have “issues,” to be “hurt” by the wife who left them, etc., in order to make us think that if we stick around long enough, the guy will come out of his “pain,” and be able to commit emotionally to us. A lot of the times, ladies, this is JUST A PREMEDITATED AND WELL-REHEARSED LINE — and also a LIE!

    As to men wanting women who are “self-sufficient,” what that means isn’t that you work and pay your rent or mortgage, that you pay your car, that you pay all of your OWN bills. What that usually means is that they do not want to treat you out on the dates! So, see it for what it is ladies!: The guys want to bang you without even giving you the emotional food that most emotionally healthy women need, which is a sense of romance, of wooing, of consideration, of gentlemanliness! Bottom line: men who behave like that are selfish users who just want a free whore!

    Yes, some women behave badly in that they take advantage of men, but by and large, and by a much greater margin, men are the ones who mistreat women. Ladies, if you think that your grandmothers and mothers did us a favor through Women’s Lib, think again! All they did was help men and GIVE MEN EVEN MORE POWER OVER US than they already had, and they did that by breaking down the moral boundaries that existed prior to Women’s Lib (which I believe should be called “Women’s Enslavement”!), which allowed men to withhold their love for us, to not even try to be monogamous, to play the field more than ever (even into their old age — and I mean OLD age!), and to make us feel devalued!

    As regards the men who still have contact with their ex-wives when they have children and that some of those ex-wives might be financially dependent on the divorced men, that’s just part of life and something that we the women have to accept. I, for one, respect a man who cares for his children and sees them on a regular basis. I would not want a man who divorced not just the wife, but his child/ren! Having said, that, however, his contact with the ex-wife must be completely focused on the children and there must not be any emotional involvement/lust/love/sex with the ex-wife.

    As long as we date guys who are real men (hard to find!) and the woman is a lady, after going through the dating scene for a period of time, we should be able to find a loving male mate for either a marital relationship or a non-marital but loving and monogamous relationship. Good luck to us all!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      Interesting that, in your manifesto identifying all the problems with men, you don’t once consider that your own expectations may be unrealistic. They certainly seem so to me. And, the only solution you’ve offered is that “men should change.” Good luck with that.

      As for Baggage Reclaim, I’ve read that blog and I agree she has a ton of insights. But, based on your writings here, I’m afraid you may be taking away the wrong message. The general theme of her blog is to “move on” from so-called asshats and not spend all your time and energy dwelling on the imperfections of people who don’t give a shit about you (as you seem to be doing). Maybe NML will weigh in.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      Two long, hate-filled rants in one day? Gosh, I wonder why you can’t seem to find any good men…

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4

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  18. Robyn Says:

    For many of the reasons mentioned by the OP of the question and subsequent commenters, I now avoid separated or recently divorced men like the plague!

    No matter how long a man may say he’s been “separated”, it’s not over until it’s over (and the divorce is signed). I personally know two men (one close friend, one family member) who were separated from their wives (as in living on different continents!) for close to 2 years, but when it came time to sign the divorce papers they choked/melted down (and had to come back the next day because in their state, their signature would not have been legal).

    I’ve personally experienced the “now that I’m divorced, I need to catch up on being off the market for 15 years” guy. He had been separated for over 2 years, was never going back to his wife (but divorce had been held up over property negotiations). As soon as he signed his divorce papers, he was wanting “to see other women” but “still see me”. Ummmm…. so now that you’re more marketable, you want to use me as your convenient part-time f_ck while you look for some one better? I don’t think so!

    People do/give as little as it takes to get what they want – this is human nature in general, not a male/female-specific thing.
    So if you’re willing to be some one’s convenient part-time f_ck while they look for some one better, then that’s what you’ll get/be.
    If you want more or better than that, then you have to walk away (which is what I did, without any hesitation).

    Sure, I don’t have as many dates as other single women my age etc. may have, because I won’t put up with above-mentioned B_S.
    I’d rather have quality than quantity any day of the week.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

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  19. Joey Giraud Says:

    49, divorced, 2 teenagers.

    If you’re complaining about divorced men thinking too highly of themselves, it must only be because you want one. I’ve never complained about the high price of a product I had no interest in buying.

    My divorce had this effect on me, I’m no longer interested in living up to a woman’s expectations. I’ve had my fill of that game, and a game is exactly what it is.

    I can see how this might frustrate some women, and I can see those women calling me names like “entitled.”

    And those are the women I have no interest in meeting.

    On the other hand, if she likes me that way I am… that’s good.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 4

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  20. kbasd Says:

    Sure he is a catch. He has been domesticated. This is a very powerful thing in terms of what a woman needs today. Most divorced men really miss being in that family situation with a woman, where he comes home and there is someone there, that he was thinking about all day. About the money thing, it goes like this: Do you want a mant who is not interested in taking care of his kids? Think about what you wish for. Kids grow up and it happens fast. That 44 year old guy will probably have that happen in 8 years or less. And by the way, Ms Shennanigans, you have a kid too, that dominates some of your finances. So all your finances can’t go to possible future union. It really does work both ways in this brave new post feminist world that we live. I suppose you could go get the undomesticated guy, and try to get him used to having to make compromises and understanding it’s not just about him, but the family. Good luck with that at your age. Most unmarried guys in their 40’s are just not ready to make compromises and deal with family life. They sat on the shelf too long and got rotten; besides they are the leftovers that women didn’t want in the first place. Sure you could do the cougar thing, but that is just a phase these younger guys go through. And trust me they get up one day and look over at you sleeping next to them and they think damn, she’s old. Look, I know I did a lot of generalizing here, but it was neccessary to demostrate that there are challenges in any direction you turn. And ultimaately, I am playing devil’s advocate to see where stereotyping and generalising takes us. Just see each person as an individual. There are good men in all the categories that I addressed.

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  21. You Says:

    Okay, I Am officially afraid of getting married now. Anyway if media wasnt always so focused on relationships we wouldn’t care about it being a priority in our lives. But again relationships no friendships are utterly important, not to have a ton but to have a few. What can young people do to marry the right one so that it isn’t a struggle to ” make it work?” are we really supposed to be afraid of being a divorcee and a parent?

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