Now I wish we could do some sort of “What’s My Dating Profile Body Type” thread. I put
“athletic” because that is what I am, but I am not even slightly overweight nor am I “big boned” at all.
Do most men think that “athletic” means slightly overweight? – Vox
I don’t think the problem is the description but the fact that everybody has their own definition and idea of what each word means. I can’t tell you how many men used to come up in my online dating searches as Average who were easily a good 20+ pounds overweight. Now, to me, that’s not average. But given Americans propensity to, uh, indulge…maybe it is?
What gets me is when people use descriptors that aren’t just questionable or subjective…but flat out the opposite end of the spectrum. We’ve discussed the bastardization of “curvy” before. As much as many men love women with curves (think Christina Hendricks), I noticed a huge change in the responses I got when I changed my body type from curvy to average. I didn’t get less responses. I got more. (This was about 2-3 years ago.) Certain words actually work against people, I think.
This is not exclusive to the body type category, either. Words like “strong” and “sarcastic” and “smart ass” and “opinionated” and “outspoken” are also buzz words that people look for when trying to avoid anybody “difficult.” When my friend M. looked over my profile last year, those were some of the things he told me to avoid. Another word that I think works against people is “independent.” If I hear a man describe himself as independent, I always wonder what he’s really saying. Like maybe he’s trying to tell women he doesn’t like answering to anyone or does what he wants, when he wants. If a woman says she’s “opinionated” or “strong willed” or “knows what she wants” often times she’s going to be earmarked as high maintenance. It’s really amazing how all of the ways we describe ourselves can actually get in our way.
“Open minded” and “adventurous” are also dangerous. Unless you have pictures of yourself sky diving or spelunking, you’re going to be pegged as someone who likes a little slap and tickle, if you know what I mean. (You do know what I mean, right?) “Naughty” or “cheeky” automatically get you labeled as just looking for sex. Oh, yeah. The word “dominant?” Don’t use that in your profile unless you want to be emailed by every guy with pictures of hand cuffs or shirtless torsos on their profile.
But the real problem, I think, is how many people who view these profiles carry with them the ghosts of relationships past or can’t get bast their own vanilla biases and fears. I heard a woman today say that a guy on Match who emailed her seemed really great…until she read in his profile that he liked being tickled. Suddenly, this guy who looked pretty good on paper was now some creep. It’s possible she had a bad experience at some point. I don’t know. But that’s how easy it is to go from seeming totally normal to being considered freaky.
I do believe we bring a lot of our own “stuff” with us when we’re trying to date online. I think few people are able to read a profile objectively.
P.S. I need new dating related questions!!! Please start submitting your question to me here
Interesting subject- someone could make a nice buck writing online profiles. Maybe it will be me.
Curvy depends on the pictures. Marilyn Monroe would be well described as curvy. Athletic means to me someone who isn’t 110# but is healthy looking. They aren’t necessarily “fat” at all, just a woman with a bigger build than the tiny waifs that are in vogue now.
I think we all have our pet peeves in reading online profiles, any mention of Ayn Rand in one sours me, as does “sarcastic” and “partner in crime”. Maybe a little unfair but I dislike what I dislike. In the end, people aren’t who they are in their online profiles and you need to actually meet them to find out who they are- and then it takes awhile.
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Very interesting indeed. I have “extremely demanding” on my profile, which a male friend warned me against in no uncertain terms. Funnily enough, I put it in reaction to reading so many men’s profiles that say they’re “easy-going” and “uncomplicated”. I thought to myself, “boring!”
I am probably more analytical than your average person, since commercial writing is my job. In esponse to UESider, I have written profiles for friends, for free, but yes, you could probably make some money doing it. It’s amazing how many people under-sell themselves.
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Most women are demanding by men’s standards. For a woman to actually call herself “demanding” (i.e. by women’s standards), she’s got to be pretty high-maintenance. “Extremely demanding”? I would run, regardless of what she looked like or what other qualities she might have. Relationships are hard enough; I don’t need someone who enjoys going out of her way to make my life hell.
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It’s fraught with danger, no doubt about it.
I’m curvy, in that my breasts and hips are significantly bigger than my waist, and the curvy fit jeans fit me really well. I’m athletic — I work out regularly with a trainer, and do have visible muscles. Even though I’ve lost 40 pounds and reduced my body fat 10%, I’m still overweight, more than “a few extra pounds.” I’m probably average, too, in that I’m a size 10-12, and the average size is now 14. Those who like skinny women might call me Rubenesque, if they’re being what they think is polite, or obese, if they don’t care.
I’m happy to describe myself however you want me to, because if I’m too fat for you, then I don’t want to meet you, get emotionally invested in you, or spend a second of my mindspace focused on you at all. (I’m happy to describe myself out of a date with those guys.) But who knows what that that description should be?
I’m not trying to be deceptive — I’m not one who thinks you should lie in your profile at all, and if I find out you have, that’s pretty much a permanent DQ right there. I’ve got a great professional shot that is certainly as flattering as one can hope for, but it’s not Photoshopped or the infamous MySpace angle either.
I go with curvy and hope for the best.
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Hrm….the age ones irk me. I’m 50 but feel 40. Age is just a number. I want someone who can keep up with me. Screams old fart looking for a youngin. Well read and well traveled are also annoying (yah great you read a book I didn’t read and visited somewhere I didn’t go to so you can brag about it on our first date to show how amazingly smart you are. zzzzz)
Adventurous is creepy for sure. Just screams I hope she does anal as soon as possible.
As much as people would hate it they really should put in height and weight stuff instead of subjective descriptions. Like 5’11 170-190 lbs sorta range but I’m sure people would still lie on that one.
Also trying to fight shallowness with semantics will not work. Average in most people’s eyes mean not skinny but not fat. Not the majority is overweight so I’m an average part of that majority. The guys who aren’t into that will not fall for it.
Also use body shots head to toe! no camera over the head tilted slightly downwards to show the boobs and chin but nothing else unless a flat stomach is also easily visible and enough with the guys with the sunglasses and hats scowling at the camera from 20 feet away next to their crappy camaro.
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I agree with you and don’t use average (besides, I don’t want to be average in any other way) but hardly any guy will use anything but average or athletic/fit…I met one guy recently who made me think “in what world are you average?” He had the close cropped pic of the face only, which should have given me more pause, but it wouldn’t have mattered so much if his personality didn’t drive me batty in person (and I learned that he had a so-called “open relationship”.)
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@Saj, Holla!!!
I love it. You’re absolutely right, I haven’t looked at many men’s profiles (usually just for laughs, guys can be cookie cutter idiots with some things on profiles) but your observations are spot on. Especially the next to the car shot. That’s classic.
Here’s one thing that scares men away: Close cropped pics of the face–ONLY. That screams Secret Internet Fatty. Most guys are prepared for that nowadays, but it can still be very frustrating.
My 2¢ on curvy: I love curvy women, (In fact, one girl on a website said she looks like Christina Hendricks (A woman with a phenomenal body, I might add) and that told me everything I needed to know. I almost lost it right at my desk when I read that.
Another thing that speaks volumes: Height, weight, measurements. That, if correct, tells you everything, men included. I’m 6’6 and 240 pounds. This sounds pretty heavy. But add in 44″ chest and a 38″ waist, and you say, ah, not that terrible. It’s the same for women. If you say 5’9 and 165 pounds, a lot of jerk guys are going to say, “WHOA, too much WOMAN!”, but throw in 36C–28–40, and that turns into a simple “WHOA!”
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>>>Are not polyamorous or any such variation on not ever theoretically being interested in settling into any kind of monogamy
Oh, so true…OKC is heavy on those. I’m impressed that you’re letting us at your profile again. I like it better than the last one, but I was one of the few who liked the last one.
My trainer takes measurements, so I have have them, but until there’s some agreed upon measurement of emotional maturity or sense of humor, they’re just numbers in a universe that don’t have that much context. If my description or picture weeds people out who don’t like heavier women, if it’s anyone’s loss, it’s theirs.
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I removed the link to your profile. If you want a post dedicated to your re-written profile, that’s fine. I’d be happy to post it. But this thread already has a topic, and I’d prefer that we stick to that one rather than have it split off in to two different topics.
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Okay. My Apologies.
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Yeah, that would definitely fall into the category of “hijacking” the thread.
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The key to writing an online profile is to write it as if you were orally describing yourself to someone. If you were talking to someone in a bar, you wouldn’t use words like “dominant”, “cheeky”, “independent”, “smart ass” , or “naughty” to describe yourself. So why do it in writing? Just write your profile as if you were having a conversation with someone. As for the body type thing, the written descriptions are not reliable because people are often delusional about their body type. Just because someone is athletic in that they enjoy athletic activities, doesn’t mean they have an athletic body type.
For the record, an athletic body on a woman is someone relatively thin but heavily toned and muscled – think Jillian Michaels. An example of slender is Gwyneth Paltrow. An average body type is someone with very little muscle definition and a little extra meat on their bones, but no rolls of fat – think America Ferrera. Curvy is someone with big hips and big tits, but an otherwise tight body with no rolls of fat – think Kristina Hendricks, Salma Hayek, and Kim Kardashian. If you have a gut, any rolls of fat, more than one chin, or extra loose skin anywhere on your body, you are in the “few extra pounds”, “big and beautiful”, “full-figured”, or whatever they call the categories for larger people these days on dating sites.
Ladies, I realize the average American dress size is now a 14. But being that size does not make your body type average. This is because people in America are notably bigger than most everywhere else in the world. On a worldwide scale, the average woman is more like a U.S. equivalent 6-8. In most countries in Europe and Asia a woman would not be able to find clothes in the U.S. size equivalent of a 14.
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I think you hit a bingo on body types – spot on to my views on female body types across the board. My body type is very much like Jillian (minus the killer abs because I like my wine). So far, your view on “athletic” seems to be in the minority though, so perhaps I should start calling myself “slender” even though it’s not accurate. To me being slender sounds like a fussy dieter, like some sort of waifish vegan which I am not. Depending on the time of year, I eat between 1800-2300 calories a day. I’m going to order the steak, guys!
A note on size… 14 may be average today but it is very, very large thanks to vanity sizing. I was a size 8 when I was 18, and now at 40 I am a size 4, despite being 10-15 pounds heavier. Come on! A 5’3″ woman who wears a size 14 may well discover that she is clinically obese were she to have her body fat percentage measured.
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Vox – There is a fine line between slender and athletic. The two often are interchangeable. To me, athletic is merely slender and toned with muscles adding extra bulk to the body. If your body type is either one, you can usually get away with being described as the other. If you’re sporting a size 4, you’re definitely slender/athletic.
You definitely can’t compare dress sizes from one era to another or even one company to another because they are not universal. Height is also a differentiating factor. The body type of a woman wearing size 8 at 5’10 looks a lot different than one wearing the same size at 5’0. My lady is 5’8, 120 and wears size 2-4 – she’s slender, but does not have an athletic build. A prior GF of mine was 5’11, 145 and wore size 8 – but she is also slender/athletic despite the bigger dress size because of her height and the fact that she is an athlete whose mass is pure muscle.
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Pants sizes are confusing to me. I’m pretty damn skinny (5’6 118) to the point where you can see my ribs and have very narrow hips but a great butt but anything below a size 5 is just way too short in the legs.
I’m not sure how anyone taller then me could wear a size 2 without the pants cutting into your calves or how anyone could wear a size 0 without being 5’1.
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I always put “average” because I’m within the range of “normal” for BMI, even though I’m on the high end of that range. (In what world could I weigh 112 for my height of 5’6″ and not be a stick figure, I don’t know.) I’m also average for women of my height and age, perhaps even on the lower side for my age. But I always follow this up with a full-body picture in my profile.
In truth, I think I’m more of an athletic build. I’m broad-shouldered, with curving biceps and thighs, muscular, strong. But I have curves, with large-ish breasts and hips, so maybe I’m curvy. To a lot of guys I should be a “few extra pounds” or even “BBW” because I’m not 5’10″/120lbs like a supermodel. To all of them I say, get real. If you’re not attracted to my photos, don’t bother to meet me. If you meet me and still aren’t attracted, nothing lost. I’m not insulted.
There is a fine line between being too honest online and being deceitful. If you put average and somebody is mad because you show up a size 12, I don’t think that’s your fault. By the same token, if you put old pictures of when you were at your absolute lowest weight, in good lighting, with a little photoshop help, taken from that one angle that makes you look amazing, and you *know* you don’t really look like that, don’t be surprised when men are put off when they see you.
This is basic marketing. We want to be interested in what we buy, but we don’t want to be disappointed either. Maybe your market is a smaller niche of men who appreciate bigger women, geeky girls, tomboys, whatever. The market is a lot smaller, but your success rate will be a lot higher with the guys you do meet.
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In marketing it is called targeting. The more targeted your audience for your ads the marketing company will pay more. If you are marketing to everyone who is not interested your having very few buyers but your wasting a lot of time and money. Aka in relationships your wasting your youth/sanity/selfesteem/ and etc.
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As the guy who made the original comment about “athletic,” I feel like I should clarify. I look for pictures to corroborate. Someone who’s truly athletic is usually proud of their body on some level, so they show full-body pictures. I’ve dated several girls who truly are athletic. But I’ve also gone on dates with gals who feel justified to use that term because they once ran a marathon (30 pounds ago).
OTOH I just remembered a woman I met last fall who describe herself as curvy. I was skeptical, but in person I found her very attractive. We never got physical so I didn’t get a close-up view of the goods, so to to speak, but she wore it well and had great style. I would’ve felt good having her on my arm at a swanky event.
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Hate to break it to you bro, but I’ve met some pretty large marathon runners. And I don’t care if someone weighs 300 pounds, if they’re running a marathon, they’re athletic. PERIOD.
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True. I guess when I think athletic I think of the people who *win* marathons.
I have a pretty athletic build myself, but I try to model it on olympic gymnasts, not olympic weightlifters.
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Just because someone is an athlete doesnt mean they have an athletic body. Just look at some of the football players out there.
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I love how everyone has a excuse to what they are. We all know better here. Accept yourself for what you are and have realistic expectations.
This morning at my gym this lady was working on losing weight. She says to be in a relationship you have to be in a certain size and weight for a man to want you. I told her that is bull crap. You think because if your at that ideal weight/or size you will get that ideal man that you been craving for. You think the reason you dont have a guy is because of your weight. If you ever lose your weight you wont even get him because you have unrealistic expectations. There are tons of ugly people/fat people in very happy relationships. No matter what size ladies there are guys after you. 99% of the time your not interested because of your expectations.
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Sadly I’ve dated some weight nazis who will go ooooh and ahhh at the sight of rib and hip bones. Funny how the skinnier you are the more they will bend over backwards to do loving gestures. I do agree with you that you can find love at all sizes sadly I seem to draw the ones who are very very particular on being and maintaining a certain size even if they themselves aren’t in ideal shape.
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True, but you’ll see plenty of young, skinny chicks with old, fat guys–as long as the latter have money. The reverse is rarely true, aside from con artists who target dying widows.
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OK let’s be fair and talk about men. Guys, if you have large biceps but the rest of you is flabby and you have a big gut, you should not select “athletic” as your body type. Yes, I am well aware that Olympic shot-putters often have big guts, but that’s an exception that should not be clung to in the world of online dating.
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I’d have to agree with the definition of curvy given here and agree that the term has been bastardized to the point where its almost meaningless. I’d say athletic is appropriate for girls who are generally average, but who are toned and who may show some muscle (just to throw this out there, but athletic girls tend to be a bit on the flat side); it does not mean large at all. Agree that girls need to be more realistic with their expectations. ALso, I liked Moxie’s point about those who call themselves “independent”. I see a lot of girls who call themselves this, and its a turn off. To me, it says you will have trouble forming meaningful bonds or attachments to others, someone who will give me a hard time about stuff.
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I don’t think I ever used an adjective to describe myself in an online personal ad. I described what I like to DO, what I was looking for, the kind of books I read. I think I checked the box labeled “average” to describe my body type.
Now that I think about it, I think that I liked that my boyfriend didn’t use any adjectives to describe himself, either. He just talked about what he likes, what his interests are, and told a little story about an ice cream truck that was pretty descriptive of the kind of person he is.
Also, he mentioned that he’s obsessed with parentheses, which made me laugh, because I am, as well.
I always tell people not to tell me that they’re funny, but just to make me laugh. Instead of describing yourself with adjectives, find a way to make them laugh.
That’s the easiest way into a woman’s panties, anyway.
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That fine line is solved with the word “fit”. I always felt “fit” better represented most people that actually are in-shape. Match.com got that wrong, IMHO.
Very few people are athletic enough to be called “athletic.” And even folks that are “athletic”, you can still definitely be fat. Just look at linemen in the NFL
Seth
FWIW
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I’m with Trouble. I recently got on match – about two weeks ago. after reading some profiles i was bummed because everyone wrote pretty much the same thing and most of it was a turnoff so i just wrote what I like to DO as well. this is literally my cut and paste of my personal profile:
That’s all I can think to say, but there is a two hundred character minimum, which I think is silly, but I suppose I’ll keep writing until I hit the magic number…
Love to fish and hunt. Love football and beer. Love to cook and eat. Love to laugh (and be laughed at
That’s all i wrote – and I’ve had a lot of great responses and even met someone i think might be nice to go out on a date with.
and fwiw, i put athletic and toned, which i sort of am, but i wouldn’t say i’m slender, i’m downright skinny. very petite, small bones, but i have arm and leg defintion from a steady diet of classical ballet since i was 3. i don’t know if athletic and toned fits the bill exactly, but it’s the closest fit.
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Abby, Down South, you’d be considered a ‘golden gal’ at any age!Guys 19 to 90 would love to date you with that glowing description. Cheers, ‘VJ’
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/77367764@N00/sets/72157602199008819/
I found this link tonight and couldn’t help but think of this conversation. Some of the photos may surprise you. The guy whose online profile I found it in said that he preferred women in the “overweight” category, but you can bet if those women actually described themselves that way, a lot of guys wouldn’t respond.
I also find what Craig says about “curvy” ironic, even if it’s typical of some guys…breasts and hips are made of fat (unless they’re fake). Sure, there are some freaks of nature when it comes to fat distribution — that’s why some people are Victoria’s Secret models — but usually, if you have enough fat to produce curves up top and down below, you’re going to have some excess fat elsewhere.
Any competent trainer will tell you that spot reduction is well-nigh impossible, and anyone who thinks that liposuction is a safe medical procedure is deluding themselves. When I lose weight, it comes off everywhere, which bummed out one ex — he was worried that the boobies would go away (they didn’t, at least not yet, although they are reduced from what they used to be).
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I’m not seeing anything surprising about that link. it seems to be a general complaint about BMI, but to my eyes demonstrates that irbid in fact accurate for the average, non-athletic person. People designated as obese there look obese.
As for being “curvy” and the role of
body fat, extra fat tends to work on women at their peak of fertility. The fat tends to be routed to areas which are appealing to men, hips, ass & breasts. As fertility declines, body fat settles in different areas of the body, and the location has nothing to do with attracting men. This is why 20 extra pounds will look cute on a 25 year old, and dumpy on a 40 year old. it’s also why actresses over the age of 35 or so keep their body fat so low – it’s the only way
to keep your body looking consistently shapely in a flattering way. Excess body fat doesnt settle so nicely when ou ate
older. Take a look at Jennifer Anniston from her Friends heyday and compare her to now. She was carrying a lot more body fat in the 90s, and wore it well.
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“20+ pounds overweight. Now, to me, that’s not average. But given Americans propensity to, uh, indulge…maybe it is?” Yes; 60% of our country is overweight, so “average” definitely applies. Add to that most women (I’m not sure about men) will put rate themselves one category better than reality on just about everything, so “average” means “fat”, “curvy” means “obese”, the next means “morbidly obese”, etc.
Going the other direction, “athletic” means “thick with some muscle tone”, and “thin” means “average”. There is no category for women who are actually thin because they don’t need online dating.
“buzz words that people look for when trying to avoid anybody ‘difficult.’” Yep, you put down a word like those and a reader will instantly picture the worst-possible meaning of the word, plus some, as they figure you’re toning things down and/or are in denial (see above).
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I don’t understand why anyone would think that “athletic” means overweight. In my mind, an athletic woman might be slightly muscular or at least toned and often has square shoulders but is definitely not fat.
Also, as far as I can tell, “curvy” means “obese.”
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