Why Is She Holding Off On Having Sex With Him?

Name: Maargen | | Location: New York , NY |Question: I met a guy about 6 weeks ago who I really like. We’ve had 4 dates man-annoyedso far, despite the fact that he’s made 5 business trips to the West coast during this time. Considering the weekends that he’s had with his teenaged kids (he’s divorced) and the time spent traveling, it seems he’s made an effort to try to see me as often as he reasonably can. We always have a great time: great conversations and blistering chemistry. There are calls, texts, emails from him every few days or so.

We got tickets to see a play this upcoming Sunday. It’s a matine (2pm) and in the email where I accepted his invitation I said how cool it would be to wake up together in the city (he lives in NJ) and walk across town to a matinee then a have a great dinner. I also added “not a suggestion…just dreaming out loud”. I did this because although our time together always includes heavy petting and kissing, our emails and texts are always platonically friendly and I felt like adding a bit of romance to one for a change, in a fit of Spring fever. He had already invited me to go on one of his trips with him but I declined, and he had also invited me to spend the night at his place, which I also declined. My image of waking up together was maybe to let him know that I was thinking along those lines for the future, if not now. I admit that I didn’t really give it much thought before sending it.

He didn’t respond to the email (which I didn’t expect him to do, since there was no question in it) but in a phone call a few days later he says, in passing, how much he’s looking forward to Saturday and Sunday together. I was confused since we didn’t have plans for Saturday, so he brought up my email, which surprised me since I forgot about it as soon as I hit ‘send’. I remember stuttering something about how I did write that it wasn’t a suggestion, but he said that it sounded like such a good idea. Since I really, really hate discussing anything serious over the phone so early on I let the matter drop. Now as the time is approaching he mentions again how much he’s looking forward to our weekend together. He mentioned going out in Manhattan Saturday night, both of us going back to his place in NJ, making brunch together Sunday morning then driving back to the city for the play.

Moxie, the problem is that I don’t feel connected enough to him to sleep with him (and spending the night with a guy who lives 30 minutes away and not sleeping with him seems a bit silly to me). Yes, I am turned on by him physically, but at this point if I never heard from him again I would just think of “that cool sexy guy what’s-his-name…too bad nothing came of it”. I really enjoy sex with a guy I care for, but don’t really care to have sex with a guy I barely know. I’m seeing other guys (not having sex with them either) and as far as I know he’s seeing other women and if he’s not it’s because his schedule’s been too busy. At this point I don’t really care if he’s seeing other women: we’re still getting to know each other. Six weeks would ordinarily be long enough, I suppose, if he hadn’t been travelling, and if our phone calls had been more than brief chats to check in and exchange pleasantries.

How do I tell him that I’m not ready to sleep with him? I’m perfectly fine with the way thing are going, and don’t want to imply otherwise. I’m afraid any explanation will send the wrong signal: I’m not putting him off because I don’t want him or like him. I’m just not ready for sex with him. I don’t want to tell him this in an email or over the phone. I can’t wait to see him (it will have been three weeks since our last date) but is it fair to meet him on Saturday and then tell him that we can go out that day and again the next day, but we’re not having sex? Should I call him beforehand and tell him, or cancel our plans for Saturday? (I cancelled one date on him already because of illness). I really dread inserting a note of confusion into something that’s going so well so far. No need to tell me all of this was my fault for bringing up the romantic scenario in the first place…I’ve already given myself enough lashes for that one! How should I handle this without changing the fun vibe between us? |Age: 40

I’m not sure you can put this particular genie back in the bottle, I’m afraid. This guy is going to feel like he’s being used and manipulated. Which I know was not your intention (at least not consciously). But intention and perception are two different things, and we have no control over perception.

Six weeks would ordinarily be long enough, I suppose, if he hadn’t been travelling, and if our phone calls had been more than brief chats to check in and exchange pleasantries.

Okay. Which is it. You start off by saying he’s made a great deal of effort and seem impressed by that. But here you seem to be downplaying the effort and time you’ve spent getting to know him.

Yes, I am turned on by him physically, but at this point if I never heard from him again I would just think of “that cool sexy guy what’s-his-name…too bad nothing came of it”.

I’m going to call a steaming pile of bullshit here. If you were as detached as you implied, you wouldn’t be trying to be romantic with him. You just wouldn’t. You said it yourself in the opening of your letter. You really like him. Again, you’re contradicting yourself. I don’t think this is a matter of you not knowing if you like this man. I think you’re afraid you’re going to have sex with him and he’s going to disappear. You know what? He might. He might never call you again. He could be dating Lord knows how many other women and spending alternate weekends with them. This is fear at work. But fear of what?

I understand the need to be comfortable with a man in order to have sex with them. But more often than not, this is a bullshit excuse women use when what they’re really wanting is proof the guy isn’t going to leave them. Well, you’re never going to get that. A man or woman can make all kinds of promises and still leave.Let me explain something to you…regardless of whether you have sex with him, if he’s going to bail, he’s going to bail. The sex isn’t going to be a factor.

Well, other than not having it. That will be a factor. Especially now since you put it on the table. I know you didn’t mean to but I think most people – male or female – would interpret “I want to wake up with you” as “I want to have sex with you.”

I really enjoy sex with a guy I care for, but don’t really care to have sex with a guy I barely know.

But…the chemistry is “blistering.” How do you build such intense chemistry with a man you’re so lukewarm about and barely know? Once more, you’re contradicting yourself. You go from saying that the chemistry is blistering to saying that the phone conversations you have are merely an exchange of “pleasantries.”

I’m not putting him off because I don’t want him or like him. I’m just not ready for sex with him.

Well, I guess the first thing you need to do is figure out why, exactly, you’re not ready for sex with him. You’ll spend two days with him. You’ll sleep over. You’ll engage in heavy petting. So what’s the block? Because I don’t buy for a minute it’s that you aren’t sure how you feel about this man.  You’ve pretty much sabotaged yourself here. You realize that, right? Between canceling a date and now this?  I’m going to throw this out there….do you think you canceled one of the dates to see if he would follow up and reschedule with you? You know..a test of his interest? I’m just asking you to consider this possibility.

The problem with tests is that more often than not they don’t work. Well, they do, but not in the way you think. Now, should things not work out, you will have a specific incident to refer to to explain why this guy never calls again. At least this way you’ll know instead of wondering what you did wrong or what happened. Now you have some control in the dissolution of this relationship. Which is better than torturing yourself, right?

Wrong.

You messed up here. You know it. The question is why. Sure, this guy might be understanding and get past this. Which would probably “prove” to you how invested he is. I think that’s what you’re looking for, whether you know it or not.You’re looking for proof. And this very well might be a test. Or you’re not really interested in having a relationship at all. We said in yesterday’s post that there are a slew of men who date who know, either consciously or unconsciously, that they don’t really want  a relationship. There’s a growing number of women who are doing the exact same thing.

The only way to save this situation is to be totally honest with him. Talk to him about it. Explain what you’re feeling. That is the only way to save this. But you’re going to have to willing to be honest with yourself first. Do you really want to try and salvage this? Because if you don’t, then stop wasting this man’s time. This letter was  a series of excuses and contradictions.

 

 

 

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76 Responses to “Why Is She Holding Off On Having Sex With Him?”

  1. loveliee Says:

    Let me explain something to you…regardless of whether you have sex with him, if he’s going to bail, he’s going to bail. The sex isn’t going to be a factor.

    ^Best advice ever.

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  2. Paula Says:

    Moxie called this one. It sounds like you’re playing games here. If you don’t want to have sex with him, then don’t, but be prepared to say goodbye to the blistering chemistry and daily contact. Time to put on your big girl pants and deal (or maybe it’s time to take them off).

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  3. VJ Says:

    M, you’re at least 40 right? You’re too old for these kind of childish ‘sh*tests’. If you don’t want to have sex with him? Don’t. Just tell him, ‘I’m not feeling it [yet]‘. That’s fine. Me? I’d bail after 6 weeks of trying. Life is finite. Such BS going in to a relationship presages even more BS on the whole sexual aspect once in a relationship. Or at the very least, is a clear hazard & warning of this possibility. Which again @ 40 (something)? Is dysfunctional for any sort of real adult relationship. So fish or cut bait here. Let the guy go. Or decide that ‘dating’ as an adult eventually will mean consensual sex.

    All the BS & rationalization in the world will not overcome that disinclination on your part. Either YOU decide that this is ‘good for you & us’ or not. And I’m sorry, but after 6 weeks of ‘dating’ or ‘seeing each other’, again failing some other dysfunction or psychological trauma or abuse? Most adults would have an expectation of some sort of sexual involvement. Not ‘heavy petting’, but something definitely ‘sexual’. That’s what being an adult is all about when IN an adult relationship. Sorry. It’s not the 1850′s or 1950′s anymore. Most adults have these expectations, again failing any other information we do not have. YMMV. If you’re a Mennonite or other similar very religious adherent or sect this may all be moot. But in NY, NY? This really sounds like a letter to Ann Landers ca. 30 + years ago. That world is long gone.

    Cheers, ‘VJ’

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  4. dimplz Says:

    Moxie is right on. Since you were candid in your email, I don’t see why you couldn’t explain this concept over email again. Or on the phone. I see something very human happening here. I don’t see you trying to be romantic. I see you opening a little window and letting him see how much you like him, but if he doesn’t respond to it, he’s damned, because you will think he isn’t interested. If he does respond, he’s damned, because you didn’t mean in *that* way. The underpinnings of your reaction to his response seem to be fear, as Moxie said. You can’t make decisions based on fear. The best thing for you to do is tell him. I would just say, “I really like you and I’d like to wake up with you, but at this point, I’m not sure about having sex and I think we should hold off until I am more comfortable and have gotten to know you better. I may have gotten carried away with my thoughts because I really like you a lot, and I’m sorry I threw out mixed messages.” If he likes you, he will understand and appreciate your honesty. If he doesn’t, better that you know now.

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    • Maargen Says:

      It’s not that I didn’t mean it in *that* way (I don’t see in what other way I could mean “wake up together”), but I didn’t mean at any specific time. It’s like saying “gee wouldn’t it be nice to take a cruise?” …it doesn’t mean that he should surprise me with tickets for next week and expect me to be thrilled. However, I don’t blame him for taking the opening and nailing down a specific date, I blame myself for not thinking it through and realizing that that’s what would happen.

      He wouldn’t have been damned if he didn’t mention my email. since I forgot that I wrote that in the email as soon as I sent it. The intent was to let him know I was thinking in that way – not to extend an invitation.

      You’re right – I’m going to have to bite the bullet and tell him something before Saturday (yikes!). I really like your wording about apologizing for getting carried away with my thoughts because I really like him. It hits the nail on the head – thanks! Email just seems cold and too formal and “seriousy” though…I think I’m better at keeping things light on the phone. Or at least there’s nothing for him to pore over and try to “interpret”…if he’s prone to that. I wouldn’t know.

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      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        It’s like saying “gee wouldn’t it be nice to take a cruise?”

        Well, no, because a statement like that doesn’t imply a level of feelings or interest in taking things to the next level. Saying you wan tto take a cruise doesn’t toy with someone’s emotions and hormones.

        If you said “gee wouldn’t it be nice to take a cruise…of my vagina” then it would be the same thing.

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      • Dimplz Says:

        Well, you already alluded to being in the polite stages, and in that stage, people say what’s on their mind. Since this is a more plausible scenario (and only 24 hours) he took you up on it. Anyway, email is tricky. Like you said, best to leave conversations like that for face to face in the future. But, before he packs a bag and buys condoms, straighten it out.

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      • Angeline Says:

        Actually, you did say when – this trip. Not “oh man it would be lovely to wake up with you in the morning *someday*” as part of a general conversation about spending time together, but in the same email where you accepted an invitation to spend the weekend together.

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      • Alan Says:

        hopefully he will dump you on the spot and take someone else tot he play. Yours is the kind of behavior I would expect from a 25 year old.

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  5. SB Says:

    Um, you practically told him you wanted to have sex with him in your email and now you want to take that back? This guy is going to be seriously annoyed by you and wonder what your issues are. As Moxie said, you are coming off as a bit crazy and game-playing psycho (okay, Moxie didn’t say that, but I do agree with what she did say).

    If you don’t have sex with this guy, he is going to leave you. If he doesn’t, I would be super impressed. You are jerking him around, teasing him unfairly, and using sex as some kind of bargaining tool it seems. Any self-respecting man would disappear after that, and you are making yourself seem completely unstable and unfit for a relationship. If he sticks around after this, it will most likely be to just finally get to have sex and then leave because you have proved you can’t be trusted for anything long-term, and he has other women for potential LTRs.

    Sorry. I’m a huge believer in waiting until you are ready, as a woman, to sleep with a man. In fact, I’ve dated men for many months and never done the deed (then-virgin), so I would love to support you here. But, I can’t. You can’t tease the guy; I never did that. i was up front from the beginning and never pretended to be “almost-ready” to have sex when, in fact, I wasn’t. At least be fair.

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    • dimplz Says:

      “Crazy” and “psycho?” That’s a bit hyperbolic for a woman who may have just said too much. So, she showed her hand and regretted it. It’s not the end of the world.

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  6. Michael Says:

    You know…. as much as I’m against moralism disguised as “his problem” and as much as I’m a red-blooded guy who generally agrees that sex is great so let’s all have more of it, I’m going to take the devil’s advocate position (or the angel’s advocate??) and say that *sometimes* women do know what’s best for building creative tension in the beginning of a relationship. Am reminded of the great line in Ghosts of Girlfriends Past when she again refuses McConaughey’s character, an unapologetic charmer, “I’m not doing this for me, I’m doing it for you.” There’s something to the dance that, if performed impeccably, is what most men I know genuinely want… but we generally don’t break party lines to admit it. I will say that unless you are both lords of the mating dance it’s best not to test each other’s confidence. (And you can’t come right out and say that you want to tease either – if you’re with a guy without a clue find a backchannel.) There’s always someone else around the corner who won’t and why risk building resentment? Especially if you have ever had sex on a first date in the past.

    Having said that, I will admit that over my two decades of dating I only had one long-term relationship (1.5 yrs) where I played the gentleman and promised her and myself we’d wait. Later on we both agreed that was a ridiculous decision. Every other one that lasted longer than 90 days stared out hot & heavy on the first or second date. So did those that didn’t last, so as one person mentioned to make the opposite point that sex isn’t that important: I’d agree. Love and sex are two different things, which is why we have different words for them. Using one to generate the other can be a successful strategy, but Your Mileage May Vary.

    So why strategize? Just be yourself, don’t categorize every man you date as the same, build a playful/sexy dynamic with everyone you choose to pursue (that’s your job as a woman…. and practice with your guy friends. If one of them flips, you’re ready for prime-time), don’t beat yourself up for inconsistency (since when was that a criterion for being human?), and learn to act authentically in everything you do. It may lead to a life unscripted (and I hope it does), but at least you can look in the mirror and at him as an honest witness.

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    • Michael Says:

      Moxie: Accidentally posted twice. What happened to the edit feature? I’m one of those who can’t see the necessary wordsmithing until AFTER publishing…. could you please delete the first in favor of the second? Which reminds me to add that you should never try to rekindle with an ex. Saw mine last night – we’d taken a 6-month trip around the world together – and whomever said time heals all wounds forgot to mention that some relationships leave nasty scars.

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  7. Michael Says:

    You know…. as much as I’m against moralism disguised as “his problem” and as much as I’m a red-blooded guy who generally agrees that sex is great so let’s all have more of it, I’m going to take the devil’s advocate position (or the angel’s advocate??) and say that *sometimes* women do know what’s best for building creative tension in the beginning of a relationship. Am reminded of the great line in Ghosts of Girlfriends Past when she again refuses McConaughey’s character, an unapologetic charmer, “I’m not doing this for me, I’m doing it for you.” There’s something to the dance that, if performed impeccably, is what most men I know genuinely want… but we generally don’t break party lines to admit it. I will say that unless you are both lords of the mating dance it’s best not to test each other’s confidence. (And you can’t come right out and say that you want to tease either – if you’re with a guy without a clue find a backchannel.) There’s always someone else around the corner who won’t and why risk building resentment? Especially if you have ever had sex on a first date in the past.

    Having said that, I will admit that over my two decades of dating I only had one long-term relationship (1.5 yrs) where I played the gentleman and promised her and myself we’d wait. Later on we both agreed that was a ridiculous decision. Every other one that lasted longer than 90 days stared out hot & heavy on the first or second date. So did those that didn’t last, so as one person mentioned to make the opposite point that sex isn’t that important: I’d agree. Love and sex are two different things, which is why we have different words for them. Using one to generate the other can be a successful strategy, but Your Mileage May Vary.

    It isn’t about the action but the interaction. So why strategize? Just be yourself, don’t categorize every man you date as the same as whatsishame, build a playful/sexy dynamic with everyone you choose to pursue (that’s your job as a woman…. and practice with your guy friends – If one of them flips, you’re ready for prime-time baby!), don’t beat yourself up for inconsistency (since when was that a criterion for being human?), and learn to act authentically in everything you do. It may lead to a life unscripted but one where you can look in the mirror and at him as an honest witness.

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    • Maargen Says:

      Thanks Michael. Of all the posters, you said what resonated with me the most. The truth is that I’m pretty authentic…I do filter what to say/do and what not, but generaly I say/do what I feel. I certainly do NOT strategize – there’s no sure-fire formula for these things, so “strategies” are too unreliable to be of any practical use. I find it best to just be myself.

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  8. Laura Says:

    Don’t feel pressured into sleeping with him. Just tell him by email/phone (I know you don’t want to but it’s better ahead of time) that although you are very attracted to him, and definitely want to get intimate in the near future, you’re just not ready yet and want to take it slow. Be honest and upfront and if he’s a good man he will understand. Say you wanted to let him know so he can make up his own mind about the sleepover. Just be honest with him.

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    • Angeline Says:

      Also, I get the impression you don’t live in the same city? If so, you’re going to have to get over the email/phone thing. Have to. Because waiting until you’re in person to deal with anything important is going to let minor things build into major ones, just from the delay. I like what Saj has to say below about it being a little flight of fancy on your part, but you aren’t ready yet (except the “he might not be worth it” part, I think he’s perfectly justified in thinking the way he is, and being a little upset that it won’t happen now). The good thing is, you floated a fun idea of waking up with him, and he jumped on it and ran with it. He’s definitely interested!

      And I agree with the several posters who said you were quite eloquent in your email. Just re-read it a couple of times to make sure you don’t come across as abrupt or send any tone you don’t intend (easy in email) with lots of language that you hope to move to that level soon (if you do). Best of luck!

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “Be honest and upfront” I’m with you so far. Better communication is the solution to most relationship problems–particularly in a case where the entire problem is poor communication in the first place.

      “if he’s a good man he will understand.” Only if your definition of a “good man” is “complete doormat”. We don’t understand why it takes y’all so long to be “ready” in the first place since we’re ready within a few seconds of meeting you; we’re certainly not going to understand why you’d tell a guy you want to wake up next to him and then turn around and say you didn’t mean sex, since that’s the only logical meaning. Or, rather, he may understand perfectly: she’s a cocktease. (Ditto for a woman who invites a man into her place, or goes to his place, after dark but then claims not to be interested in sex.) That may have worked in high school, but we expect you to have grown out of such stupid games by your early 20s, much less 40.

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  9. Saj Says:

    You should call him ahead of time not to dash his hopes on Saturday. Don’t just sleep with him out of fear. You did a great job of explaining yourself in the letter OP so try to explain it the same way to him and be as honest as you can be. If he bails or thinks you are playing games then he might not be worth the effort and angst you are going through right now. Just let him know there was a misunderstanding in your email and it was a cute fantasy but you prefer to wait a bit longer before sleeping with anyone.

    I call crap that the older you get you should throw away your personal values and comfort levels because other people are more impatient. I thought maturity meant being more patient rather then emotional.

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    • Paula Says:

      You should never throw away your personal values and comfort levels at any age. But you should also know yourself better than to play insincere flirty games — that’s an indicator of maturity as well. And maturity means accepting the consequences of your actions: consistently displaying indecisiveness can reasonably be interpreted as a lack of sufficient interest, so she shouldn’t be surprised when and if he interprets her actions that way.

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      • Cricri Says:

        The problem is that we’re just assuming it was insincere. This type of stuff happens when people try to flirt and are bad at it ( reason why I don’t do it, but that’s why I’m single too !!! ). Men do that sometimes, flirting and making promises that we, women, know better than to believe. Problem is men automatically believe ANYTHING that might look like sex, so you have to explain to them that you’re just trying to be “the seductress” ( and sort of failing at it). It’s embarrassing but not deadly.

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        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “The problem is that we’re just assuming it was insincere.” That’s what the OP’s guy is probably going to assume as well, so that’s fair.

          “It’s embarrassing but not deadly.” That depends on how convincingly she falls on her sword–and waiting several days to correct such a huge misunderstanding makes it a lot less convincing.

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  10. D Says:

    It’s not impossible to walk this back provided you accept all the blame for creating a false impression. I’ve found that starting a difficult conversation with “You’re going to hate me,” then smiling a little, is a great way to release tension. Don’t make it a huge deal, just say you misspoke and feel bad about giving him the wrong impression. And also tell him you really do like him and can definitely seeing this little incident being something you look back on some day and laugh.

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  11. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    I was going to mention this in the post but since the OP never specified who pays for what I felt it might generate a heated reaction.

    A matinee show and dinner doesn’t come cheap. Now, maybe the OP splits the bill. Totally possible. So let’s keep this to a general discussion and not targeted at the woman who wrote in the letter since we don’t know the details.

    Hypothetically….

    A man doesn’t blink an eye at spending a decent amount of money on a woman to whom he’s not committed. And many women – not all – would let him even though they aren’t committed. Yet I bet many of those same women have the same mentality as the OP…that they prefer to be comfortable with a man before having sex with them. Perfectly acceptable. But then why be comfortable letting a man spend so much money on you?

    This is a personal preference for me. I’m not letting a man spend a lot of money on me unless I’m also comfortable having sex with him.

    Thoughts?

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    • dimplz Says:

      I’m not sure I see the correlation. Is it due to pride that you don’t feel comfortable, or because you’re equating money with sex?

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    • Saj Says:

      I don’t know. If you let the guy know up front that you like to take some time to get to know him and then he still chooses to treat you then isn’t that his personal choice rather then trying to impress you with cash to sleep with him earlier?

      Just like an earlier heated discussion if a woman chooses to sleep with someone earlier and it doesn’t work out she should own it just like if a guy pays for a date and it doesn’t work out he should own that as well.

      Also you shouldn’t feel guilt that you should sleep someone because they took you to a nice dinner. When you treat someone you don’t expect anything from your girlfriends or your guy friends other then providing them with a nice time. I’ve treated people in the past without thinking tit for tat.

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    • Alan Says:

      I would certainly appreciate it if more 40′sh women felt like Moxie on this subject. But I don’t think this is the norm. For myself I can afford to be and enjoy being generous but not on a totally unreciprocated basis. And reciprocity comes in many ways some of which involve neither money nor sex. Particularly when dealing with someone who should be showing some self-knowledge and maturity.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “I’m not letting a man spend a lot of money on me unless I’m also comfortable having sex with him.” I know it’s not what you meant, but the words you used here seem remarkably close to prostitution. Then again, so is marriage.

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  12. Paula Says:

    I’m with Moxie on this one…and this is how I would explain it. It’s not about money for sex, or because I “owe” him something for laying out the money.

    Spending cash on one another (with the expectation that the other will later reciprocate) and becoming sexual (with the expectation that each wants that) are also part of the natural progression of things that tend to happen around the same time (forget the magic number, but we all know it’s part of the progression). If you’re willing to have someone spend significant cash on you, but you’re not willing to do your part to continue escalating the natural progression, then you run the risk of having him feel taken in — a dinner whore that didn’t put out. If you haven’t got through the first time, you also don’t know whether each of you is going to want to be with the other person afterwards (sometimes things do end there, whether it’s incompatibility, bad sex, or just a feeling that the attraction isn’t what you want it to be).

    Either you’re all in, or you’re not, and if you’re still having doubts, it’s best to keep things light and dutch. You shouldn’t ask for a financial investment if you’re not able to make an equivalent emotional investment.

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    • dimplz Says:

      Ok, yes I understand now. I guess I kind of agree, only because although I’m not sleeping with my guy, it was a mutual decision we discussed even before our first date.
      I’d also add that OP’s guy doesn’t sound like he’s totally emotionally detached. He did offer to have her stay at his place and drive back and forth. A pain in the ass for anyone who knows the commute between NJ into NY (raises hand).

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      • Paula Says:

        No, OP’s guy doesn’t sound emotionally detached. She sounds like she’s not as into him as he is into her. Maybe it’s because it takes her longer, which is fine. But she’s turned him down for a business trip. Turned down an invitation to stay at his place. Canceled a date on him. Now she’s suggested she’s ready to spend the night with him, but she’d rather cancel that than go through with it.

        There are only so many times you get to back out of being with someone before they conclude you just aren’t that into them. And when they are making a special effort to be with you as much as they’re able, between multiple business trips (maybe the other women he might be dating includes Moxie?) and child custody weekends (plus regular phone/text/email contact), but you’re not making an equivalent effort to show you’re invested, don’t be surprised when they decide that someone else may be more worthy of the effort.

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        • Saj Says:

          It’s so weird to me how often people play things so close to the chest when getting to know someone. It’s hard to relate to the guarded nature instead of just saying hey I don’t really want to go on a business trip that is too much too soon and just being able to chit chat about your anxieties or hesitations and you don’t even need to be that emotionally invested in a person to be able to do that.

          I guess I’ve always been a complete open book warts and all on every date I’ve been on so they know what to expect and it’s fun when they can open up to me the same way as well. I don’t like guarded guys or the “mystery” but I’ll relent that a lot of women do but the price you pay for that “mystery” is angst and wondering whats going on with him.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          I don’t think it’s a matter of not being in to him. This whole letter was inconsistent and contradictory. This is a woman who doesn’t want a relationship or only feels comfortable in a relationship with a man who proves himself to her over and over again. Simple as that.

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          • Maargen Says:

            LOLOLOL!!

            As the OP I laughed out loud to read this description of myself. It seems your analysis is based your experience maybe, but certainly not on mine.

            Here is my experience: since I started dating, I’ve been in 5 relationships lasting between 3 – 5 years each. So although my experience with being single has been limited, my experiences with relationships and dating have been extremely positive. My relationships have been characterized by friendship, extreme decency, respect for each other and genuine caring for each other’s welfare. If I’ve ever been cheated on, I’ve never known it, nor do I have any reason to suspect it. I have never cheated on anyone myself. At the start of my romatic life I made the mistake of dating men who wanted to get married and have children, which I’ve never been ready for. Breaking up with someone who’s just proposed is a very painful experience, and after doing that with two different guys I learned to choose more carefully and date guys who aren’t looking for marriage. I’m a serial monogamist who is honest and positive about relationships, and the guys I’ve dated have been the same. It is NOT my experience or opinion that men lie, cheat, use women, or are only looking for sex. SOME men are like that, so I make sure not to date those guys. IF (and I don’t even know if this isn’t a fallacy) there are men out there who decide not to date a woman because she had sex with them “too soon”, I certainly haven’t met them. And although I can’t know what one particular guy thinks is “too soon” or not (so I don’t even try to guess), I certainly would hope that a guy wouldn’t think that sex on Date 5 was “too soon”!

            Also, I’ve never tested a guy. I didn’t break a date with him as a test, I did it because of a ripped cornea that had me in the emergency room in the middle of the night, and feeling like crap the next day. It was a difficult decision, but finally I asked myself what I would have done if I had plans with a friend instead of a date. I do not break plans lightly, but I knew that under the circumstances, I would have asked my friend to understand – so I did the same with him. I broke the date as early in the morning as I could, specifically so he would have as much time as possible to make another date for the night if he wanted to. (He ended up calling to see how I was and we spent part of the evening on the phone together)

            If I was going to test a guy, I certainly wouldn’t need to test this one. Despite his busy schedule we’ve had 4 dates in 3 weeks. One of our dates he set up days before his return flight, to see if we could meet for dinner in the city on his way home from JFK. I don’t take any of this as a sign of “commitment”: I take it as a sign that he likes my company as much as I like his, and probably for the same paltonic and non-platonic reasons.

            So since I’m not trying to test this guy, and since I don’t even understand the concept of judging someone for having sex “too soon”, your post doesn’t seem to apply to me at all in those two areas. I also don’t see why he would stop seeing me after having sex, and if he did stop seeing me, how upset could I be for someone I’ve seen a few times in my life? Seriously??

            I don’t see what’s contradictory about saying that our calls were pleasant and short. This is simply a description, not a complaint. He called when he could and when he felt like it, I took his calls (or called him back) when I could. My point in bringing them up was to say that although we met 6 weeks ago, he’s been gone for 3 of those 6 weeks. 6 weeks of regular contact would have left us in a different stage of familiarity with each other. Maybe long phone calls would have compensated for the time not spent together, but since the calls were short, my degree of comfort is still as if we’ve known each other for 3 weeks, rather than the 6 since we met. Is it really unreasonable to say that not seeing each other for three weeks, while I’ve been seeing other people, certainly doesn’t have the effect of bringing us closer together? Unreasonable or not – that’s how I feel.

            This guy asked me to stay over and I said no…he asked me to take a trip with him and I said no. I didn’t think either of those suggestions were inappropriate, or “too soon”…I just wasn’t ready. I didn’t go into explanations in either case, just said something about work and moved on. When I wrote that disastrous line in the email, part of me wanted him to know that I definitely want to have sex with him, specifically because I didn’t want my refusals to leave him in doubt of my intentions. However, I was thinking of some other time in the near future…not the next time I see him after a three week absence. He himself even joked about sending me a picture so i would remember what he looked like!

            Here’s the issue: I still feel a bit shy around this guy. Maybe “shy” isn’t the right word, since I am certainly far from a shy person in general, but I guess it’s like the new coworker in the office: everyone is pleasant and polite to him/her at first, but over time, with familiarity, the jokes become more personal, the greetings become more genuine, and the banter becomes more fun rather than just polite. It takes a bit of time before you’re comfortable enought to bum a quarter off him for the soda machine, right? Well that’s how I feel around this guy. I still feel as if I’m in the polite stages. Not “polite” as opposed to “rude”, but “polite” as opposed to unihibited and fully relaxed. The bedroom is NOT a place for shyness, as far as I’m concerned, but it’s not something that I can turn off at will. It’s how I feel. I have no idea when that level of “shyness” wears off, and I am very sure that those three weeks apart didn’t help.

            If no one out there ever felt shy when having sex with someone they’ve just met – kudos to you. I don’t think I’m strange for feeling this way. Maybe some of you go ahead and have sex despite this feeling. But for me it would feel like the difference between hanging out at the bar with my best bud and hanging out at the bar with my boss. Sex with him will be more fun when we’re more familiar. Is that really so odd??

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              At the start of my romatic life I made the mistake of dating men who wanted to get married and have children, which I’ve never been ready for. Breaking up with someone who’s just proposed is a very painful experience, and after doing that with two different guys…

              So…how does this serve as a counter to my opinion that you have a fear of commitment or don’t want a relationship?

              He ended up calling to see how I was and we spent part of the evening on the phone together

              But I thought you said your phone conversations were mostly just exchanges in pleasantries?

              I didn’t think either of those suggestions were inappropriate, or “too soon”…I just wasn’t ready.

              Ready for…what? This is what many of us aren’t getting. Ready to do..what? Have sex? Or spend this much time with him? Because I’m thinking it’s the latter more than the former.

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              • Maargen Says:

                “So…how does this serve as a counter to my opinion that you have a fear of commitment or don’t want a relationship?”

                It doesn’t. I most certainly do have a fear of commitment, and although I never had a fear of relationships before, I think during my last two years of being single I’ve developed one. However, I do NOT have a fear of having sex, or having sex “too soon”

                Yes, we had one phone call that was longer, but other than that one, each of the calls have been pretty short. Not unusually short…but they’ve been the sort of calls you’d have with someone you don’t know very well if you’re the sort of person who doesn’t like to talk on the phone, has had a long day of traveling and business meetings, and needs to go to bed to be up early in the morning to catch a plane. That kind of short.

                [Ready for…what? This is what many of us aren’t getting. Ready to do..what? Have sex? Or spend this much time with him? Because I’m thinking it’s the latter more than the former.]

                Wrong. I would love to spend Saturday evening with him and see him again on Sunday. I’m just not ready to have sex with this guy, because he still feels a little like a stranger to me. Simple as that. For all I know, a great date on Saturday could do the trick, but since I can’t guarantee that I won’t even suggest it. I’ve decided to text him tomorrow to have him call me to discuss our plans (I don’t know his schedule and don’t want to call when he can’t talk), and then tell him that I’m not ready to have sex with him on Saturday. I know he’ll say what he said the last time he asked me to stay over: that we don’t have to have sex if I don’t want to. However, I really, really do not see the point in being in a guy’s bed all night and NOT having sex with him, and it’s a scenario that I won’t put myself in. If he suggests going out on Saturday anyway…yay! If not, he’ll have time to make another date with someone else….I really think it’s too soon for us to be exclusive at this point. Does that sound like a good plan?

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  13. Infinity Says:

    The precedent of how your relationship will be is already set before the sex happens. I don’t blame you one single bit for not wanting to sleep with him yet., I agree, you haven’t had enough time yet to feel comfortable. I do not find you contradictory at all. Perhaps it’s because I’m in the very same situation with a blistering hot guy myself. Nothing will change in the frequency of your communication just because you sleep with him. He will NOT suddenly become more available (IMHO). Be prepared, that if you do go, you won’t be seeing him any more frequently than you are now. Personally, I let my guy go, even though he’s smokin’ hot. My vote? Turn down the date. Unless you don’t mind sleeping with a man that you have to wonder when you’ll be seeing him again, if ever. That’s no way to live. He was not romantic for a reason. You don’t owe him!! If he wants you, he always has the option of calling more, seeing you more, acting more romantic, and in general, acting like a guy that is interested in you. I’m a few years older, and this happened to me twice. I tried it BOTH ways, so can make a comparison with the results. Let him wait until YOU feel comfortable. Let some other woman meet his deadline. You can get better.

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    • dimplz Says:

      Except that she led him to believe she was comfortable when she wasn’t, so the onus is on her to correct it.

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      • Maargen Says:

        Actually, what I said was that “waking up together, walking across the city to a matinee and ending the night at a bohemian restaurant, off the beaten path, is my idea of a day well spent. Not a suggestion, just dreaming out loud”

        I stand by everything I said. I did NOT say “let’s wake up together on Sunday when you get back”. I told him that this is the sort of thing i would enjoy. I DO take full responsibility for the mess, and wish I hadn’t said it, but just because I would like to do that some day doesn’t mean I that I led him to believe that I would be comfortable doing it the next time we meet. What was the point of my going out of my way to say it wasn’t a suggestion?? If he had asked me directly if I wanted to do this the next time we met, i would have said no….not yet. The problem is that he never asked, he just spoke as if it was a plan we both made, which it never was.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          What was the point of my going out of my way to say it wasn’t a suggestion??

          I’d read this the same way I read statements like “Just Sayin’…” It’s something people use when making an inflammatory statement. They tack on a jokey little catch phrase because they don’t want to own what they just said. That way, when someone calls them on their inflammatory statement, they can say “I was only kidding!! Geez.” No, you weren’t only kidding.

          Call it whatever you like. These are passive aggressive terms people like to use so that they don’t have to be responsible for any potential hurt feelings or ensuing conflict.

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    • Paula Says:

      It sounds like he was plenty romantic when they were together — maybe he’s just not comfortable using email and text to flirt (especially if it’s while he’s traveling for work or using his work phone/e-mail — it’s a good way to get fired).

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      • dimplz Says:

        I agree. If he was calling, inviting her places, I think that’s plenty romantic. They aren’t in a relationship, and even so, not everyone is romantic in the same way. Someone coming over to help you with heavy furniture or calling you just to say “hi” for a couple of minutes is enough. Personally, I don’t need declarations of love. Show me, don’t tell me. Talk is cheap.

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        • dimplz Says:

          And another thing: what good was it for her to throw in that line, saying she was trying to be romantic, only to take it back? That’s just self-sabotage.

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          • Maargen Says:

            Again, I was being general, NOT specific. And yes, he’s “romantic” in person. Since his emails. texts and phone conversation are strictly platonic, I found myself following his lead, in order not to make him uncomfortable. I guess this email was partly my way of returning to my own voice, and be more myself, which is to be romantic with a guy I’m interested in. He doesn’t have to be like me, but I certainly need to be myself with him.

            Again, I was thought I was just painting a romantic picture, NOT making a romantic suggestion for our next meeting. I understood as soon as he spoke that I got it wrong (I’ll even overlook the fact that he ignored that i deliberately said that it wasn’t a suggestion!) but I didn’t mean to suggest something then take it back – that was all inadvertent.

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    • Maargen Says:

      To me this isn’t a matter of a right way or a wrong way…it’s a matter of cause and effect. If the frequency of of our communication and contact increases I’ll get to know him more quickly, If it doesn’t it’ll take longer. Either way I’m enjoying getting to know him.

      I can’t see myself having sex with a guy in order to achieve some sort of goal (have him see me more often, cement a relationship, as ROI for money he spent…) I have sex with a guy when I’m ready because I feel like having sex with him. This guy does turn me on physically, but I don’t know him well enough yet to be comfortable having sex with him. And uncomfortable sex is NOT fun!

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  14. Joe Says:

    Here’s a theory; this is a woman who has been whining for years about how there are no good men and so on. Suddenly the man she’s claimed she wants shows up and she realizes that she’s doesn’t want him after all. In reality, she’s been full of shit the entire time.

    My prediction: she’ll dump the guy and go back to bitch mode.

    My advice to the guy: Run away as fast as you can.

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    • dimplz Says:

      Joe, between today and yesterday’s comments, I am really hearting you.

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    • Maargen Says:

      LOLOLOL!!!

      As far as I’m concerned there are plenty of good men out there! I’ve never met or dated anything else! My ex-boyfriends, all 5 who I’ve dated for 3 – 5 years, are still some of my best friends, and I have so many male (and female) friends who are wonderful people that I would certainly be full of shit if i claimed there are no good men out there! I know too many of those good men personally!

      As a matter of fact, I don’t make even ONE complaint or bitch about this guy – I said from the beginning this mess was MY fault! Having sent the wrong signal once, I’m trying to avoid doing it twice. What in that brings to mind bitching about men?? Is that just a standard response to *anything* a woman says??

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      • Joe Says:

        Like I said, it was a theory. Nice to know it was a sucky therory in this case.

        (I based it on behavior I’ve seen in both men and women. Specifcially, the sister of one sister-in-law does this constantly, as did a single thirty-something male neighbor of mine from 15 years ago, thoug he wasn’t as neurotic about it.)

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      • VJ Says:

        I’m sure that this guy now thinks that you’re among the most loveliest ‘time sinks’ he knows! Cheers, ‘VJ’

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    • Angeline Says:

      Joe, honey. I’m not hearting you, or this comment, but you don’t sound like yourself. I’m sorry you’re having a rough week.

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  15. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    The opening letter is bordering on insane but the OP seems pretty sensible in her follow-up comments. My opinion is that there is no solution to this problem – or, at least, there’s nothing she can DO to alter the outcome. If she can’t bring herself to sleep with a guy with whom she has “blistering chemistry” then her only alternative is to allow him to think that she is a manipulator (which, she is.) It’s no crime, though.

    What’s interesting to me is that, although the story presents an extreme example of this behavior, it’s actually not that different from the behavior of otherwise sensble and seemingly normal women. I’m sure most guys reading this have had the experience where he walks a woman home after the third or, go forbid, fourth date and she says “I really want you to come up BUT……” followed by some lame excuse such as “it’s too soon” or “have to get up early” or whatever. Then she gives you one of D’s winks and sends you home. (PS, on that point, I’m pretty sure men are immune to transparent “you’re going to hate me” disclaimers. Especially if they are made while telling a man he’s not getting sex. That sort of irascible charm only works on women.)

    Anyway, what is the point of telling the man that you would like him to come up BUT….? This is what confounds me. You’re telling him that you would like to have sex with him (which he appreciates, I suppose) but that you won’t. Unless your reason is concrete (i.e. my mother is upstairs using my futon) you’re excuse is going to be viewed as a lie. And the guy will assume you are playing games. What the consequence of that? Probably nothing. Speaking for myself, I’d probably go on another date. But, you lost some points. We’ll both live. If we’re both adults living in a free country, I assume if you WANT to have sex with me, you will. If you don’t want to, you won’t. If you say you want to but don’t, then you’re lying. End of story.

    The guy in the OP’s story seems to have found a loophole which I may try. When the girl starts to say “I’d like you to come up but…” interrupt her quickly and say “I accept! Let’s go up.”

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    • Maargen Says:

      Nutes, my sisters will kill me for telling me for telling you this, but i can see that you have NO CLUE of how a woman’s mind works, or what’s important to us. It’s not every guy a woman goes out on a date with that she’ll want to go home and have sex with. So she may be interested in him before the date, but it’s something that happens on the date the turns her on enough to want sex with him that night. So now she would like to have sex with him BUT…there might be quite a few “buts” that she doesn’t actually want to tell him, mostly because he would swear they weren’t important to him, not understanding that they are very important to her. For instance: she’s having her period. She hasn’t shaved her legs (I’m serious). Her apartment is a mess. She’s feeling fat and isn’t confident to get naked with him. She just isn’t “sex ready”. Now that she knows this is a guy she wants to have sex with, the next date will find her ready – from the clean sheets on the bed to the fresh Brazilian wax. Yes, NONE of those things are important to YOU, but YOU ARE NOT HER! Don’t try to figure it out, but stop trying to judge her by what YOU would do.

      Also, I painted a general romantic picture that I specifically said wasn’t a suggestion. I realized that my general romantic picture was nevertheless taken as a specific suggestion for a specific date, which I did not mean, but I accept as my fault. For that I’m insane??

      I feel as if this guy is a stranger that I’ve only known for three weeks. I’m not ready to have sex with him. I guess I’m nuts.

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      • Angeline Says:

        HAHAHA! OK DMN, she is completely, totally on point with all of those mental objections. COMPLETELY. Desire overtakes you on a date, and you’re in this dreamy, sexual haze, and then you think, “oh sh*t!” and those objections, or some combination, pops in your head. Suddenly, on the front step, I’ll worry that the reality of sex won’t be as fabulous as I want it to be with this exciting new person, and I backtrack. Problem is, almost all of those reasons mean nothing to a guy – most of the time he won’t care, but we’re not confident enough at that moment to accept that. Sure, those are silly, superficial reasons to turn down sex, but the attraction at that point is still superficial, too.

        Surely it’s OK for there to be a progression from “oh yeah I want this guy” to acting on it.

        However Maargen, that isn’t what happened here. You’ve got time for the date prep. :) Shyness, newness, IMO is a completely acceptable reason to not be ready, and your explanations in your posts make all kinds of sense to me, and I think they might to him as well, if you give him time to hear them (instead of us!) I think the shy thing might well be endearing. He might well push for you to come up anyway. He might well try to ease you past it, because he’s already (blisteringly) interested in you physically. Let him know, and let him know quickly.

        But: Don’t set yourself up for NOT having sex with him now, just to hold a line. Don’t lock yourself into the non-sex position, if you *do* go, and that one afternoon/evening is enough to wipe out the rest of your inhibitions.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        To the OP, I”m not confused at all, I know exactly what you’re doing. A guy with any experience is fully aware of all those excuses, I mean reasons, but it still begs the question – what are YOU trying to accomplish when you tell a guy you want to have sex but then won’t. OK, you have your period or hairy legs. Thanks for the information. Does he really care? No. Just don’t communicate to him that you “want” sex. Say goodnight at the doorstep and send him on his way. But, no. You really NEED him to know you want sex, right? Why?

        Anyway, I’m not the one that fucked up. You are. Sure YOUR reasons are important but it also may matter how your words and actions will be interpreted by other people, in your case MEN. So, I guess the question is, are YOU aware of how a man’s mind works? That’s the crux of your original question.

        Hard to think of an analogy to switch gender roles here, but what if a guy told you, as you walked by a flower store, that he really liked you and wanted to lavish you with flowers and gifts right now but “he wasn’t ready.” Wouldn’t you think that was odd? If you want to give me flowers, go ahead. But don’t tell me you want to but won’t. Wouldn’t that make you think he doesn’t REALLY want to give you flowers? Sure, maybe he has good reasons. Maybe he’s flat broke. But, still doesn’t make his statement incongrous. That’s what women are doing here.

        You can believe anything you want. You can have sex or not, if it makes you happy. You can be celibate your whole life for all I care. But, since you happen to be dealing in the market of men, I think it may benefit you to be aware of what you’re communicating to them with your words and actions. That is all.

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      • dimplz Says:

        Ok, this is the last I’m going to say about this, because it seems that despite what everyone is telling you, you’re insisting that you were trying to be romantic:

        - You say that you don’t know him well enough and don’t feel comfortable enough having sex with him. Fair enough.

        - You feel comfortable enough to dream aloud but don’t want him to take it as a suggestion. So he’s supposed to take it as what?

        - You say you’ve been dating for 6 weeks and have seen him quite a few times, and you wouldn’t be too affected if nothing came out of it, yet you seem very worried about him getting the wrong idea.

        I understand that seeing someone new is exciting, but given that you have a lot of experience with men, and just by having regular friendships and relationships, we all go by a standard of “say what you mean, and mean what you say.” Now, you may argue that you did mean it, but not now. I’d say treat a man as if he were a child (not saying men are children!!!!), but you will NEVER tell a child, “Wouldn’t it be nice to go to Disney World?” because you’d be getting their hopes up and you have no intention of going anytime soon.

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        • Maargen Says:

          I already said that I understand NOW that for a guy there’s no difference between “it would be nice to wake up with you” and “let’s wake up together next Sunday”. I GET IT.

          If none of you have EVER written/texted/emailed something on the spur of the moment that you meant in one way, and realized afterwards that it could be taken in a different way, that’s wonderful. I already admitted that that is what I did.

          Hindsight is 20/20 and I realize (and said over and over) that *I* caused this situation.

          I don’t want to speak for all women so I’ll say this about myself. Sometimes I need to go out on a date with a guy more than 3 or 4 times to figure out if he’s on the “f*able” list or in the “no thanks” list. As soon as *I* know, I let him know.

          It wouldn’t surprise me if guys have been out with woman for weeks before realizing that she thinks he’s a nice guy and all, but isn’t really turned on by him. I myself have been out with a guy that I thought I was really into until the first kiss, when something about his kiss and the way he touches me turns me off. As a matter of fact, I am never sexually turned on or off by a guy because of the way he looks, but because of the way he physically feels to me.

          This guy feels great. I really enjoy his style, but having refused two opportunities to be intimate with him already, I made a clumsy effort to let him know that as far as I’m concerned, I definitely find him “f*able” – when I’m ready! Of course, if too much time goes by without us getting there I’ll lose interest, but as for now I’m hoping we get there, and soon. However, since I don’t know him well I’m not comfortable enough NOW. And it’s impossible for me to predict when I’ll be ready, since I don’t know when that note of formality between us will dissipate. He’s very warm in person, and very cool via text/email/phone, etc. The reasons for this can be perfectly plausible and acceptable – everyone has different communication syles after all. The *effect* is the same regardless of the reasons, though: this warmth and coolness from the same person keeps me at a level of detachment and formality that I don’t find sexy. With time this might dissipate, but as for now, I don’t feel able to be my completely uninhibited self with him.

          No need to explain his warm/cool demeanor – I don’t even wonder about it. I believe that relationships seek their own level. In time these things fall into place and we’ll fall into the right vibe, I hope. But we’re not there yet, and no knowing when we will be.

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          • vox Says:

            I am probably a bit more sexually reserved than average on this site, but I too think you are being an immature pain in the ass. Grow up already and stop being so self involved. It isn’t attractive, believe me

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      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        “So now she would like to have sex with him BUT…” If you’re not ready, for whatever reason (legitimate or not), then don’t tell him you want to have sex with him. See how simple that is?

        You can make all sorts of excuses for dangling the carrot and then snatching it away, but it all boils down to playing a game. If you want to be taken seriously, don’t do that.

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  16. Mark Says:

    Wow. A lot of stuff in here, so let’s see if it can be simplified a bit.

    You seem to be attracted to him, and vice versa. Despite work, several trips to the West Coast, and time out for his kids you have gone out several times and enjoyed each others company. The old chemistry thing at work. OK, So far so good.

    Unfortunately, at this point you seem to have very different ideas as to where things are headed. Or at least the pace of the relationship, and that’s leading to some serious confusion. Same book, different pages. So if you would, try to put yourself in his place for a moment.

    You said it yourself: great dates, blistering chemistry, kissing, heavy petting, etc. Is it possible that he sees the Sat/Sunday thing as a natural evolution of things? You haven’t made it clear in your e-mails (platonic) to him, and you hate talking about anything serious over the phone. So when you both are together what transpires? How is he to know otherwise? Sorry, but I think I can see that he is getting very mixed signals. He might even think you are playing some type of game. At the very least he is more than a little confused and is wondering if pursuing things is in anyone’s best interest at this point.

    I’m not saying give in to his suggestion about weekend plans together and sleeping together if you are not comfortable with this. Not at all. It’s your prerogative and you are within your rights to exercise them. But it’s also equally fair to let him know where you stand on things at this point in time. After all, this has gone past an initial meet-and-greet stage, but things are not yet exclusive either. So If might be a good idea to have a heart-to heart conversation with him so both know where each stands and where to go from this point and hope for the best.

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    • Maargen Says:

      You’re 100% right on the dot. I really, really wish I hadn’t written that line…I *hate* the “heart-to-heart” before a relationship even begins…this is still supposed to be the fun part!

      Sigh…

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      • Mark Says:

        Should it be fun? Of course.

        Yet it’s also true that along with the fun is a certain level of responsibility. Both to yourself and those you date. Be it casual or something more serious. The level depends on what the nature of the relationship is. Here, it sounds like you were looking for a potential special partner. Not just a casual someone that you hang around with from time to time.

        So it’s critical that you have a good handle on yourself. IE Who you are, what qualities you are looking for and what qualities you offer. That sort of self assesment can be tough. Especially if our own self perception differs greatly than how others percieve us. Rationalizations can g only so far. So an appropriate dialog in the right way at the appropriate stages of a relationship help things from going of the rails as it did here.

        Sorry to say this, but I hope this experience is an eye opener. Take stock and hopefully this won’t be a pattern to be repeated over and over. Otherwise, there could be a whole lot of jaded and frustrated people in the dating pool that makes things tougher for everyone.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

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  17. Paula Says:

    Maargen…there’s no way anyone should respond to all your posts (or even try), but geez Louise, you’re digging this even deeper. It was more than reasonable for him to assume that your “wouldn’t it be nice to wake up together” didn’t mean sometime in the next century, but the next time you were together and it was possible (i.e., he was in town without the kids around).

    And if at 40, you’re still using your period, unshaved legs, and a messy apartment as a reason not to have sex, then Moxie was absolutely right to call bullshit. You can manufacture any reason you want to not be ready, but recognize them for what they are: excuses based in fear. Because if you’re ready, none of those things will stand in your way — or his.

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    • Maargen Says:

      LOLOL…

      Geez…I really thought I was good at expressing myself. I’m never this misunderstood in real life!

      Nutes specifically said he doesn’t understand why a woman would say, on her doorstep, that she wants to have sex with a guy, BUT…

      I was explaining some reasons why women have done this in the past.

      I was NOT talking about myself. Was my post that unclear??

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Fair enough. I said I was “confounded.” Sometimes I engage in hyperbole. As I said, I am not really confused. As I said, this is not a big deal. Women will be women.

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  18. Saywhat! Says:

    “Also, I painted a general romantic picture that I specifically said wasn’t a suggestion. I realized that my general romantic picture was nevertheless taken as a specific suggestion for a specific date, which I did not mean, but I accept as my fault. For that I’m insane??”

    Seriously, at 40 you don’t see how this comment could be perceived?? either that or you simply just don’t think before you speak. Are you the type, “do it now, figure it out later”??? how about figuring it out now, before you do it??

    Sorry, I’m younger than you and a women and I even know this.. Maybe you just haven’t found the right guy that will snap you back into reality out of your dream world that you live in with your “dreamy comments”

    Stop it and wake up.

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    • Maargen Says:

      Yep…you have NEVER misspoken/written/texted a guy. Since I admitted to doing it once, I must be really, really messed up.

      Thanks! :-)

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  19. JC Says:

    Hmmm, I can’t believe I sat and read through all of the replies…WHOA…now that I am at the bottom I’m at a loss as to what the initial question/reason was for writing in to Moxie?…WAIT, found it…

    I need to give myself a pat on the back for being 33, not having as much dating experience as the OP and STILL knowing that the “dreaming out loud” statement should have been said in the shower, alone, water at full blast…alone.

    There is flirty cute romantic (it would be nice to wake up with someone and go see the sunrise) statements, and then there is flirty/romantic seductive (insert what OP said) statements How are the two different? OP made it personal. Make it personal and it becomes tangible.

    That being said, I still don’t understand the need for advice…like Moxie said OP said she doesn’t care if things end. She has come off as if she isn’t that invested…so tell him you don’t want to spend the night…use one of those lovely “women won’t have sex because____” excuses.

    One thing I can’t stand is when I guy I am seeing makes a personal statement that involves the two of us doing something and then he tries to back out of it because he was just talking out of his ass…

    Either people learn accountability when dating or they need to adopt the “don’t speak about it…be about it.” frame of mind.

    If he really likes you, Maargen I don’t think you being honest will change anything. It might make him wonder WTF. But be HONEST…something I’m not sure you have done here.

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    • Maargen Says:

      OK…here’s what no one here seems to get. Partly because I’m an ethicist, partly because I don’t ascribe to any religion, partly because I see things from a scientific point of view, I don’t really see these things the way most posters here seem to. For instance: sex is a physical activity with no moral implications whatsoever. Sexual behaviour has nothing to do with morals and everything to do with socialization and biology. Men who have multiple sex partners aren’t disgusting dogs out to use women: they’re following their biological instincts to spread their seed. Women who want to settle down and get married aren’t trying to “trap” men: they’re following their biological instinct to nest. A lot of confusion comes from the idea that men and women think that when the other sex behaves differently than they would, the other sex is behaving badly, when the truth is we have biologically different mandates.

      Socially speaking we have to curb our behaviour to fit the needs of a well ordered society. Ethically speaking, we need to be honest about our intentions. For a guy to pretend to be monogamous when he’s not is just wrong. For a woman to pretend to be more interested in a guy than she is in order to either get stuff or not be single is wrong. For men and women who are emotionally healthy and self aware to have responsible sex whenever they damn well please is perfectly healthy.

      In this situation, I said over and over I misspoke (yes, I understand that none of you have ever done this. I suck. OK!!). Although I would like to continue getting to know this guy, not for a second would I consider having sex with him before I’m ready in order to continue seeing him. Men aren’t in my life to fill roles that I need them to fill: (“husband”, “boyfriend”, “provider”, “social subsidizer”, “status-giver”, “arm candy”) They are in my life as people I like because of the mutual positive, enriching effect we have on each other, or not at all. I have a lot of those already…what I don’t have is one who I also feel that physical, biochemical urger to have sex with (yes, biochemistry has a lot more to do with who is attracted to who than people give it credit for, so stop accusing each other of being superficial for not being attracted to people who are too short/fat/tall/skinny for someone’s individual taste, or who don’t look – or more importantly for women – smell right)

      Having screwed up, my objective now is not to figure out how to “keep” him (never had him to keep anyway) It’s to figure out how be as honest as possible and as fair to *him*. I needed to figure out how to let him know that I screwed up, without giving him the impression that my interest in him is less than it is, or that I’m playing some “game”.

      It seems to me that people are more interested in judging each other and accusing each other than in understanding each other (my whole reason for explaining the “hairy legs” scenario to Nutes is in the hopes that if he finds himself in that situation again, he’ll face it with some insight and understanding and cut the woman some slack, rather than accusing the woman of playing a game). Having screwed up, I needed some advice as to what was the most fair thing to do, and what method to use to do what was most honest given the fact that I created a ridiculous situation for myself…and him.

      All of your input have helped me decide what to do, and now that I’ve decided, the important thing is to do it as soon as possible. He’s calling in an hour. I’ll be as positive and honest as I can. Maybe he’ll judge me too, maybe he’ll try to read my mind, and maybe he’ll react as some of you have here: on what other women have done in the past, rather than on what I myself am saying about this specific situation. As it’s Wednesday, he’ll have time to make other plans for the weekend if he so chooses. He has to do whatever he thinks it best for him, and whatever it is, I certainly won’t judge him for it…or even regret it much if he bails. My friends who love me, and who I love cuz they’re the best men and women on the planet, are still having a party this weekend at which I will have a blast, just like I did at the one we had last weekend. And I’ll get more batteries. And keep looking for that spark. Life goes on!

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        “my whole reason for explaining the “hairy legs” scenario to Nutes is in the hopes that if he finds himself in that situation again, he’ll face it with some insight and understanding and cut the woman some slack, rather than accusing the woman of playing a game.”

        I told you, I thought there was nothing you could do. That is my honest opinion. As for me and my personal decisions, no worries. I’m fine.

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      • JC Says:

        First… I have misspoke, many times and when I was called out on it (like when he agreed to staying over) THAT is when I spoke up and explained I was just flirting or joking. Since then I am more careful or just blunt. Painfully to some.

        I just think that it is a little weird to hem and haw about how you never had him to lose, and if he bails you’re fine with things YET you still want to find a way to keep him around.

        I think if he was only about sex he would have bailed when you turned down the offer to go on the business trip. But he hasn’t…he is making plans with you days/weeks in advance. I really think at this point while he may be excited to have sex with you sex isn’t all he wants.

        Be honest, say you aren’t comfortable spending the night. The more you thought about it the more you would rather wait to take that step. Mention you still want to hangout and take it from there…and next time knowing how you feel about sex, personally I would keep any comments that could be seen as sexual (and directed at them) to myself unless I knew I wanted sex with that person.

        Don’t make statements personal unless you are ready to follow through…life tends to be less messy that way (at times)

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “Make it personal and it becomes tangible.” That’s a big part of it, but I think it’s more that men are natural problem-solvers. If a woman tells us about a problem–and that includes many things women don’t realize are problems, such as an unfulfilled fantasy–our inclination is to fix the problem, in this case by fulfilling her fantasy.

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  20. BILL Says:

    I know you had plenty of one night stands, and men you slept with earlier.

    You are probably think once you do sleep with him he will leave and lose interest in you just like the other men.

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  21. Infinity Says:

    Op and others,
    I see your dilemma has upset several of the male readers here. As I read down this list of arguments and defenses, it sounds like the going consensus is that you owe your new date sex. YOU DON”T. To think that society has been reduced to a man being entitled sex from a woman in exchange for taking her out is saddening. YOU DON”T OWE HIM. He’ll be lucky to ever have you, if and when you are ever ready. The only man you “owe” sex to is your husband. Gentlemen, the only woman that “owes” you sex is your wife. Having sex before you’re ready is tantamount to having to eat a huge meal when you’re not at all hungry. Why do it? I hope you, OP, don’t give in to the foolish idea that you owe a man sex at any time, if ever. I think it best to date someone who is willing to wait until you’re ready. Men like him are a dime a dozen.

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  22. VJ Says:

    Great Flaming Horny Toads Batman! There’s the problem right there: M says she’s “an ethicist”. Natch’. RUN FORREST, RUN!!

    Back to the ‘analysis’ here. This ‘attitude’ helps you in the ‘short term’ SOMETIMES but has likely seriously warped your ability to yes, bond with others on a longer term basis, Especially romantically.

    Maargen said above: “I don’t ascribe to any religion, partly because I see things from a scientific point of view, I don’t really see these things the way most posters here seem to. For instance: sex is a physical activity with no moral implications whatsoever. Sexual behaviour has nothing to do with morals and everything to do with socialization and biology. Men who have multiple sex partners aren’t disgusting dogs out to use women: they’re following their biological instincts to spread their seed. Women who want to settle down and get married aren’t trying to “trap” men: they’re following their biological instinct to nest. A lot of confusion comes from the idea that men and women think that when the other sex behaves differently than they would, the other sex is behaving badly, when the truth is we have biologically different mandates”.

    Why might anyone surmise this? Well again, you said it here [above]:

    “Although I would like to continue getting to know this guy, not for a second would I consider having sex with him before I’m ready in order to continue seeing him. Men aren’t in my life to fill roles that I need them to fill: (“husband”, “boyfriend”, “provider”, “social subsidizer”, “status-giver”, “arm candy”) They are in my life as people I like because of the mutual positive, enriching effect we have on each other, or not at all. I have a lot of those already…what I don’t have is one who I also feel that physical, biochemical urger to have sex with (yes, biochemistry has a lot more to do with [it]…)”.

    So That’s why none of this was quite adding up M. None of this was making any real life logical sense. It ONLY makes sense if you’re a philosopher of some sort. You’re a very special ‘unique’ case here. You Never wanted to marry or have children, and this is indeed part & parcel of your ‘ethical worldview’. Further, you Don’t really NEED or WANT a BF in any mere conventional sense of the word or concept. Just some positive energy pile of something or other that gives you mutual pleasure. Sort of like a ambulatory agreeable sexual aid. I’m sorry we’ve misjudged you. You must seriously like & enjoy sex to keep those fellows around! And yes, I do trust you that they’re all still friendly too. And likely still in rotation where possible.

    So here’s the bottom line. Do tell this new bloke all this stuff. And then tell him honestly you’d like to put him in the rotation, but you’re not quite comfortable with him just yet. He’s trying awfully hard to get there, and you’re just missing all these signals he’s throwing off, because likely, YOU’VE NEVER BOTHERED WITH THEM. Never had to most likely. It’s like your own separate world to inhabit. I’m sure it’s friendly too. Not all of us can live there M, and you’re also likely to somehow age out of that tree-house soon. Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’

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