Why Bother Dating?

Name: chatty || Location: san diego , california |Question: Here is a question… Is it possible for a guy who pays to find love doing so? I have decided I only want to date women I meet in strip clubs, because I can have a good conversation with them, and decide if there is any physical attraction to them right off the bat.. Then I can talk to them, easily, get to know them, at my convenience, and decide if they are the kind of person I would like to hang out with.. I have found that all it takes to get a stripper’s real name and real number is about 400 to 500 dollars worth of dances… After you spend that kind of money, she will, with almost no exception, give you some kind of contact info, and you can pursue her further.

There are obvious pitfalls, eg when that becomes for them, a way of ensuring income, so they text you when they are working and ask you to come in… they are not really interested in you, they are just interested in your money.

How do I get around this…is there a way to develop a genuine relationship which is started in somewhat dubious circumstances? I would love to hear from girls who met their guys in rather dubious ways…

Also, how do you go back to regular dating when you know that rather than pay 400 dollars for dinner over a few dates which maybe go nowhere you could just pay 400 dollars and have a girl show you a real good time and then sit around and talk for awhile and laugh about it, and then you have her number?

Why does anyone who has any sort of decent sex drive at all even go on a regular date? So many judgments and rules and games… so much being appropriate and doing things by the rules… when you can just break the rules and have fun?

|Age: 36

The really frustrating part of this letter?

I’m trying to come up with a compelling argument, but I can’t.

Yes, what if he ends up blowing $500 on a woman only to find out she’s not really interested? That happens when you meet women the regular way, too. Although not as often. Hah! There! I have an argument.

But the rest? I do see his point. I mean, it’s depressing, of course. But I get it. I see the point he is making. For the record, I don’t think he’s serious about trying to date strippers because it makes more sense. I think (at least I hope) he’s trying to make an analogy.
Why does anyone who has any sort of decent sex drive at all even go on a regular date? So many judgments and rules and games… so much being appropriate and doing things by the rules… when you can just break the rules and have fun?

I agree with you in theory. It would be better if we all let go of our hang ups and pre-conceived ideas and biases and “rules.” But that would include getting rid of the opinions you’ve clearly formed about women. In your mind, we’re all blood sucking parasites who are just after your money and waste your time. My friend, pick up a newspaper. Right now, we’re kind of carrying your asses. There’s more of us XX’s graduating college than there are of you. When the economy was at it’s lowest in these past couple years, guess how many of us were going back to work to help pick up the slack in our homes and relationships? So, please spare me this junk about how we’re all after your wallets. Because we’re the ones filling a lot of them right now. Sorry for the mini-rant, but I’m tired of having the sins of a segment of women held against me just because I, too, have a vagina.You guys are no walk in the pahk. (That spelling was intentional, as when I get heated I tend to speak in my Boston accent.)

On a related note, I was recently told by a man that I turned down for a second date due to his constant travel schedule that I “didn’t have enough earning potential anyway.” That was a first for me. I have no idea if he’s just been burned too many times by women (he perceived were) after his money or what. But I laughed out loud when I read his response. I was being dumped (even though I was the one to turn him down) for being poor. I don’t know if that’s funny or telling or scary or all three.

Back to the topic….

We go on dates because they hold possibility.  Yes, there’s all these rules that many of us don’t even know exist, so we don’t even know what we’re doing “wrong” half the time. There’s a ton of uncertainty involved.

Which is why we need to get rid of the fear-based dating approach. We’ve forgotten how to trust, I think. We’re all waiting for the other shoe to drop and looking for signs of someone’s true colors. We’re too afraid to just say Que Sera, Sera. Whatever will be, will be. Yep, she might be using you. Or he might be blowing you off. Or they might be lying about wanting a relationship when they really don’t. Or too busy. But you’re never going to know if you sit back and wait for some stranger you barely know to lay all their cards on the table and tell you you’re on the exact same page and prove to you that they’re not just some self-serving turd just looking for a free meal, or sex or attention. Yes, you’re going to encounter those people. It’s inevitable. But you have to be willing to kiss a few frogs, as they say.

In closing, as a tie in of sorts, that guy that I said I went out with 5 times and he said he needed to take a few weeks to focus on work? He emailed me Sunday afternoon. He was back in town, he said, and wanted to see me this upcoming weekend. Could he just be looking for a piece? I don’t know. Is he still going to bee busy bee? Probably. What I do know is that he said he needed a few weeks to focus on work and things going on in his life, and he followed up. I could have blown him off or gotten pissy when he first told me he needed a mini-break. Instead I just said, “Okay. I understand.” I could have spent three weeks pissed and hurt and angry and analyzing whether he was lying or telling the truth. (Of course I vented to a couple close friends. I’m not that above it. ) Or I could have just chosen to keep my options and my mind open. Maybe it will lead to something serious, maybe it won’t. I don’t know. And I’m okay with that.

Now, if I – Queen of the overthinking and compulsive questioning and cynical thinking can do that? So can you.

 

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29 Responses to “Why Bother Dating?”

  1. Saj Says:

    I recommend the OP check out the South Park episode “Raisins”

    A true cautionary tale!

  2. Vox Says:

    Every man I know of who dates strippers (or porn stars) exclusively has been an omega male who is masquerading as an alpha. They are such strange, unattractive men, even though they delude themselves to believe otherwise. Don’t go there, chatty.

  3. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I don’t get the OP’s question nor Moxie’s frustration over it. If the OP or others enjoy exclusively paying for and dating strippers, then good for them. They should do it. Personally, I date because it’s fun to meet real people and get to know them and enjoy each other’s company. Paying and dating strippers and/or prostitutes wouldn’t be fun for me, most importantly because they are not really interested in me. They’re doing their job. That’s boring and pointless to me.

    “Which is why we need to get rid of the fear-based dating approach. We’ve forgotten how to trust, I think.”

    Not sure I agree. I don’t think people have forgotten how to trust, I think they are too trusting and lack critical thinking skills. They say it’s “overthinking” but really, it’s not thinking at all. It’s blind faith. People base their decisions on fantasies and things their parents or brothers told them without any effort to determine whether their beliefs hold up to reality or logic. Some people get through life that way an do okay, but even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

    You don’t need to throw up your hands and say “que sera sera.” Sure, in individual cases, this may be the right way to go. But, you can also think through and solve these problems if you focus on the right things. Dating and relationships involve at least two people — i.e. at least one person other than yourself. I really feel like some people don’t get this. The failure to consider and understand the motives other people is fatal. Especially in those cases where their motivation is exactly like your own — you just don’t like when “they” do it. To me, it is THE problem behind all these dating questions and problems that appear on this blog.

  4. jessica Says:

    Chatty, you need to get a grip. If you want to spend money on strippers inside and outside ( this will include shopping trips, help with rent, etc) of the strip club and are OK with the fact that as soon as you stop shelling out big bucks they will ignore you, go ahead.

    Stop trying to turn it into something more than it is, you are paying for a service, if you stop paying, the service is over. Just remember that these girls get hit on all night by men so it’s pretty unlikely that they’re dying to pick you as the person they will hang out with for free.

    If you don’t want to spend 400 on a date that goes nowhere then keeps things casual for the first 2 dates or so, you can tell by then if it’s going nowhere and you can save your money.

  5. cricri Says:

    I don’t even get what the OP wants. If you can’t tell if a women is attracted to other than when she is grinding against you, then you’re already handicapped in the first place, because you won’t be able to tell if those strippers are into you either. Plus, why pay $400 to have someone’s phone number, real name or so that they talk to you when you can easily get that with a regular woman for free? I don’t see the point. To me the OP doesn’t think much of connecting with women, maybe doesn’t know how and is trying to disguise into a bravado trip, quite sad really. Don’t be lazy, in dating and don’t be deluded. The one thing they’ll love you for might turn into the thing you’ll hate them for too.

  6. dimplz Says:

    It sounds as if the writer is jaundiced. If you can’t find the fun in dating, or it’s become too rote for you, I’d say to take a step back, and find joy in other activities.

  7. Paula Says:

    Why does anyone who has any sort of decent sex drive at all even go on a regular date? So many judgments and rules and games… so much being appropriate and doing things by the rules… when you can just break the rules and have fun?

    I completely relate to this statement, Chatty, and have said so here a number of times. I’m dating again after being in relationships for 10 years, and spending a year just having fun and not worrying about if I’m dating. It’s hard work figuring out all those things, and it’s hard work figuring out yourself, which is a lot of what dating is about. So it’s tempting to throw in the towel and go for the easy score, (Although I have to say, you can surely pick up women in a bar more cheaply than either the stripper or paying for dates, and some of those develop into real relationships. I just met a childhood friend who met her husband of nearly 20 years in a bar, as did I — her marriage lasted longer than mine, but we’re not the only ones out there.)

    The reason is that you’ll never develop any confidence that someone wants to be with you for yourself. You’ll always question whether it was the money. You ask “how do you go back to regular dating?” Do you want to be in a position where you can’t? What happens if you meet a woman in day-to-day life…at the grocery store, or at work, or pursuing a hobby, and it doesn’t occur to you to ask her out and pursue something — do you want to miss out on those opportunities to meet people who already fit into your life somehow because you’ve become so cynical about dating?

    Also, I’m not one to say that every sex worker is broken emotionally, especially strippers, because there are a number of them who do it temporarily to get through school or to get through a difficult financial time, but you will need to be careful that the word doesn’t get out that you’re a guy who is willing to date a stripper, or all the messes will be presenting themselves to you. You obviously don’t judge someone negatively for being a stripper, but what do you really want in a woman?

  8. joe Says:

    Recently, I read that there are two kinds of happiness: One is the quick jolt of getting a raise, going to a strip club etc and other is more long-term of getting an education, building a relationship. The second one takes a longer time and requires effort but will make you happier in the long-run.

    As one guy to another, I would advise get off the drug of dating strippers. It is easier to get them to take off their clothes but they are doing that for everyone. The only reason they give you their phone numbers is to get you to spend more money. When you run out of money, they won’t spend a minute with you.

  9. Mya Says:

    The problem with “dating” strippers and prostitutes is that you are PAYING a woman to pretend to like you. If the woman is taking your money for sex or flirtation, it’s very unlikely she actually has a real romantic interest in you. if you date a woman in the real world, and she likes you, it’s less likely she’s pretending just for money. Relationships with strippers and sex workers is transactional. I guess it depends on what you want: a real relationship with a woman who cares about you personally, or a quick sexual thrill?

  10. Aldonza Says:

    A friend of mine was a stripper. She told me that most of the girls had 5 or 6 of those guys who thought they were dating, but really were just funding the lifestyle. They slept with some of them. But most of them they just called when they needed money, a meal, their car fixed, etc. The really savvy ones had *very* wealthy guys buy them things, even cars and condos.

    If you want to hang around hot women who act like they like you…pay them. It’s the simplest and surest way. But if you want something that extends further than your wallet, you’ve got to get down in the mud with the rest of the mortals and build a relationship.

  11. chuckrock Says:

    I can’t see why anyone would want to date a stripper. Besides from the obvious that every other guy has already seen her naked and maybe has touched her, stripping also tells me that her moral fiber is not as high as my own and we wouldn’t be compatible anyway. I don’t want to be with someone who felt it was acceptable to take off her clothes for money.

    I’ll stick to traditional dating, i won’t be spending 4/500 bucks on dates and i still will get somewhere and find someone.

  12. Capt. Jack Sparrow Says:

    If you need to spend that kind of money on a girl to make her like you, you need to work on showing yourself (or maybe just work on yourself). If you commoditize dating, you’re going to find people who want to commoditize you. When you sell yourself with money, you’re not going to find people who really like you, just your money. Guess what, they’ll like you while you have “it” and not when you “don’t”. I’d rather be with someone who doesn’t care how much I make or spend. I can see guys in NYC who are disillusioned to the point of believing they need to “spend” to get a girl, even when they may be desireable themselves. And I also see women who equate “spending power” with attractiveness, which goes beyond just being financially stable and living comfortably within your means. It’s all too bad, because you don’t want to end up with someone who just likes your “things.” If you lose them, i.e., due to health or other troubles, you don’t want your significant other to bolt.

  13. Trouble Says:

    I have decided I only want to date women I meet in strip clubs, because I can have a good conversation with them, and decide if there is any physical attraction to them right off the bat..

    What’s really awesome about this plan is that you’ll know, from the get-go, that they aren’t in it with you for the money.

    ^.^

  14. Devon Brown Says:

    Can the same argument be made with the following comparison?

    I really want to be the best long-ball hitter in baseball history. But I don’t want to practice and practice and practice only to go up to bat and get a hit 3 times in every 10 at-bats. However, if I do steroids, I can probably still get a hit 3 times in every 10 at-bats anyway, with more of them being home runs, without having to waste my time with all that practice that might not pay off…

    Okay, so it is probably not apples to apples, but my point is the same point your dad and his dad and his dad and all the way through time have been saying – “Hard work is its own reward.”

    – Devon

    • Paula Says:

      Devon —

      It’s a timely, yet dangerous argument to make…as any day now (it’s already now up to 4) we’ll learn whether you *can* do steroids and get away with it (or get away with lying about it).

  15. D Says:

    I’ve never dated a stripper, but I think you can actually learning some dating tips from them. Not long after my divorce I went to a strip club for the first time in 20 years. I had not dated for a while and had no game (i.e. I couldn’t even smile at a stripper and thus get her to come to our table). And I found it hard to be comfortable around a gaggle of semi-naked women. A friend of mine who spends way too much time in strip clubs explained the “rules” as it were and after a while I got into the spirit. If you can be comfortable there, you can be comfortable with practically any woman in any situation.

    Yeah, the women are there to get paid first and foremost, but as with any job it’s possible to enjoy your work more or less based on the people you are around. Learning to talk to women in this environment makes it easier in the real world.

    (One hint: talk about something other than her jobs and the fact that she’s. Ask if she likes pets, what her favorite movie is, when’s the last time she laughed so hard her drink came out her nose.)

    Oh and spending $400 on a few dates is ridiculous. The most I think I’ve spent on the first three dates combined is probably $120. And on the first date I rarely spend more than $20 on a couple cocktails).

  16. Paula Says:

    If you really want to go cheap, and get the perfect mate, try this site:

    http://cloudgirlfriend.com/

    Here’s how it works:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2383485,00.asp

  17. ciscokid Says:

    Alright … I had to jump in on this one. There is nothing good that comes out of dating a stripper except for great sex!! That is it! If you can score with a stripper… kudos to you!!

    You cannot do anything else with a stripper. Your not settling down with her. You are not bringing her to get-togethers, friend / family occasions, baptisms,..none of that shit. Your banging her… ferociously too!

    Now the OP asks.. Why bother dating?? Well.. to an extent this guy is right.

    Why put up with a chase that goes nowhere? $200 dates that just burnt a hole in your pocket? Stuck up attitudes. And the general psychotic-overly analyzing cynical women out here in the big city? Talk about pure headaches.. who needs it?

    A while back… I had a big steak night out with guys I knew from a previous job. The night was great and we laughed our balls off. While being respectful, we didn’t care who was around us. We weren’t looking to hook up or hit on women. It was all about us having a good time… catch up, drink and smoke some cigars.

    We eventually brought our hoo-rah to a midtown strip joint. I had my best suit and drink on. Feeling great and looking good… the women(strippers) felt this off me and flocked over. I dropped $300( not a-lot considering) in that club alone… and I walked out with 3 smoking hot strippers numbers. Talk about great night!

    I eventually went out with 2 of these professionals and had the time of my life… straight up -both in and out of bed. No drama, no over-analyzing, no headaches… niiiice!!

    Bring it on ladies…

  18. chatty Says:

    those are all great comments. I think it was more about just being sexy… I mean, honestly, there are sexy strippers and not so sexy strippers, it’s not just taking your clothes off that counts.. and honestly, just because someone has sex with you, it’s not necessarily going to be good sex, right? I mean think about it, you want to have really hot sex… and who better to do so than with someone you have great chemistry with, who has a great bod, and who you like talking to…

    at the end of the day, regular dates are just the same.. a woman tries to evaluate your potential for long term contributions,whether you have good chemistry, whether you are “sexy” eg fun, funny, and caring… whether you are appropriate for middle class morality… and then the sex, and the payments are all delayed. why not put the money down up front? I mean honestly, when you meet a woman who is your everything, you are going to shell out tons of money for a ring, for a kid, for a house, for college, etc.. what’s a little investment up front? you spend 30,000 on a car, right? why not spend a thousand bucks test driving the woman?

    hey, if it’s not a mortgage payment and instead it’s just pay as you go stripper payments, what’s the diff? what well educated guy out there doesn’t support his family? I mean I work with a ton of well educated women who support theirs…I would love to have a well educated equal, but one who can DROP all the pretentiousness…

    sigh. yes, I agree, guys who hang out with strippers are weird and unattractive. isn’t that the point? get funky!!! get down.. get weird.. it’s totally selfish and totally self satisfying.. but SO MUCH FUN!!!

    • dimplz Says:

      I think once you drop the binary descriptions for women (i.e. strippers are fun, hot and easygoing and educated women are “pretentious”), you may have a chance at a real connection. We all meet annoying people. I’m sure there is some stripper out there who’s boring, or annoying and pretentious. You just have to get out there and discover for yourself and not rely on your negative ideas to taint your views. People suck sometimes, and other times they are wonderful to know. It’s all a part of life – I don’t know why people think they deserve happiness. Happiness is a gift. You have to appreciate what you have, and you will find happiness that way, but it’s not a right.

    • Vox Says:

      Well if you are happy with your decision, why did you waste everyone’s time by asking for advice? It’s your life, do whatever you want. Why are you so hell bent on turning this into a debate? Turn off your computer and head to the local strip club, have a blast! But of course, it’s obvious that you can’t do that.

      The real purpose of your letter is to prove something to everyone who glances at it so you can feel better about yourself… rather typical of men who date strippers regularly. You all wish to prove something to those who see you with the stripper on your arm more than you want the actual woman herself. That’s what I meant by an omega masquerading as an alpha. Such a desperate need for approval. It’s sad really.

      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        He didn’t turn anything in to a debate. He posted his response with one follow up comment. He’s not rebutting every single comment the way some OPs. do. If anything, he’s baiting people and you fed in to it and took the bait.

  19. ciscokid Says:

    Man.. it would be awesome if all the women in the world were strippers… haha

  20. James Says:

    Dating a stripper is like dating a prostitute. Same thing just different venues. At least with a prostitute you’re paying for the service and she goes on her way. A stripper will be playing you and who knows who else?
    Ether way, these people are of poor character. I would not want either in my life for these reasons;

    Most are thieves and will take you for all you’ve got given the chance.
    Most have drug habits especially blow. And that means money…your money.
    What hot 20 year old wants to be with a 50 year old man? Seriously.
    Who knows where she has been if you know what I mean.
    You will be dealing with jealous boyfriends and possibly a husband? NOT!
    Most have kids with different fathers.
    Many are a mess are low class and can never be trusted.

    Look, strippers are NOT girlfriends (or boyfriends) you need to remember that. You pay for the fantasy.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      James, seriously? If all you’re going to do is go through months/years old posts and bitch, please stop commenting. Nobody wants to hear it. We get it. You’re unhappy and dating is hard, etc etc.

  21. James Says:

    Just speaking my mind like everyone else.

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