First Date Sex Faux Pas?

Here’s the scenario:walker2

Man meets woman online. He tells her he’s looking for something casual, but consistent. They go out on a date. Date lasts almost 12 hours. She goes home with him and spends the night and next morning at his place. Lots of talking and multiple sexy times. She asks if that was a “one time thing.” He says I don’t know. Woman leaves. Within a half hour man deletes his profile. He texts her the next day to tell her how good the previous weekend was with her. She replies and says the same. She sends him a text a few nights later suggesting they get together that evening. A couple days goes by. No response. The woman is confused.

What happened?

Things she knows: He’s NOT married. He’s been divorced for four years. His last relationship was a year ago and he hasn’t had sex since. Woman is 38. Man is 38.

“Should I have made him wait?” she asks.

 

Okay. First, breathe. Wait for what? He told you what he was looking for. What’s the point in playing the whole “make him work for it” game? If you didn’t sleep with him after he was upfront about what he was looking for, he wouldn’t have even sent you the text. He’d assume you required more effort than he’s willing to give and blow you off anyway.

What could have happened:

1. He realized he didn’t want/wasn’t capable of having even a casual relationship.

2. He’s embarrassed or feels ashamed that he did what he did. (Guilt of the religious variety.)

3. He feels pressured and fears she got/will get attached.

4. He’s still emotionally fragile from the divorce and recent break-up.

None of these things have anything to do with you. Yes, asking if you’d see each other again or if that night was a one time thing could have freaked him out. But it’s done. If he’s freaked out by that, then his disappearance would have happened eventually. Better now than later.

In theory, the casual relationship sounds ideal. Some drinks, some sex and then good bye. But it rarely works out that way. Especially if you and the other person hit it off or have things in common. It could be that this guy isn’t well versed in the current hook up culture due to his divorce and break up and being out of the game for a year. Sleepovers are not usually advised. Things should be kept contained and limited to a few hours.That way you don’t get too comfortable, too soon.

Maybe he realized after the fact that this wasn’t what he wanted. Maybe it made him feel empty or bad. The fact that he deleted his profile makes me think he regretted it to some degree. Not the actual time spent with you. More like his behavior. Maybe it was out of character for him or he doesn’t know how to approach the situation. He could have sent the text just so that he didn’t leave you totally twisting in the wind. It’s possible he’s still sorting things out in his head, which is why he hasn’t just replied and said “Thanks, but…”

Right now he’s probably wondering how to let you down easily without looking like some creep who was trolling the internet for sex.  That could have been his plan all along.  I’m more inclined to think he just had second thoughts after the fact and doesn’t know what to say and feels bad. He’s taking ownership of what he did. He’s just not telling you.

You can’t take this personally. This is more about him than you.  If he does contact you and give you that Dear Jane text, just say thanks , that you appreciate his honesty and move on. There’s nothing else you can say.

To me, the only truly hurtful thing he did was not reply to your invite to meet up again. You chose to have sex with him. He told you what he could offer. These are the risks we take when it comes to these types of relationships. He doesn’t owe you a response because you had sex. If he gives you one, it should be because you’re a human being with feelings. Not because you took your clothes off and rolled around for a few hours.

I don’t think you’ll hear from him. So my advice is to just accept this as a one night stand, unintentional or not, and let it go.

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124 Responses to “First Date Sex Faux Pas?”

  1. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “She asks if that was a “one time thing.” He says I don’t know.”

    Really? Isn’t this the critical piece of information. I can’t imagine a more awkward question for someone to ask. Why put him on the spot? What does it accomplish? If I were asked that question with a woman standing in front of me, I’d say “of course not” even if it was a lie. This is not discourse between friends – people don’t know each other just because they spend a night together. Even if he said “hell no” doesn’t mean he’d see you again and then theconfusion would be about that.

    If I were a woman, I’d never ask that question. I might say “hey, that was unexpected and great, I’d like to see you again” and leave it at that. The fact that he couldn’t muster enough feeling to even say “no” to that question even just to make you feel good is very telling, I think.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 3

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      The “I don’t know” part is what made me think this guy doesn’t have much experience with these sort of situations. It’s a weird response, but only because it was an honest one.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        It’s a weird response, but only because it was an honest one.

        Correct. Honesty is often inapprorpiate. Score one for me.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5

        • Paula Says:

          Uh, no. Because she would be even more hurt by “of course not.” And that made him a liar, instead of a confused fader. Which, if they ever encounter each other again, makes it even harder to recover from.

          Say their paths cross in a year, and he goes “wow, I really liked her but effed it all up by running away.” He could be honest again, and say, “you know, I hadn’t really done anything like that before, and it freaked me out a little. I wasn’t sure how to handle it, and I messed up. Forgive me?” I bet, if she was still single, there’s a 70% chance he could get her back.

          Or a month from now, he reads the responses to chuckrock’s recent Coffee Talk post, and says “I should call her, maybe it’s not too late.” Again, as long as he’s not proven himself to be a liar, he’s got a shot.

          Or, he has a relationship with a higher power and needs to make amends…he has far fewer to make if all he did was not return a phone call, vs. he has to atone for a lie.

          Women like confused emo boys much more than they do insincere liars, even when the liars are insincerely pretending to be confused emo boys.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

          • DrivingMeNutes Says:

            “Women like confused emo boys much more than they do insincere liars, even when the liars are insincerely pretending to be confused emo boys.”

            Actually, in my experience, socially appropriate women like and appreciate men who also behave socially appropriately. And vice versa. Frequently that involves properly grasping a given situation and not asking awkward inappropriate questions nor delivering brutally honest responses. Sometimes that means allowing someone to save face (yes, allow them to lie to you) and not calling them on things and trapping them into a corner.

            “Uh, no. Because she would be even more hurt by “of course not.” And that made him a liar, instead of a confused fader.”

            Your claim that she is “more hurt” by the dishonest response is convenient but not supported by the story. He was blunderingly honest. She is confused and hurt. You would be too. Your point depends on a belief that he is “confused” or “doesn’t know what he wants” which, in my opinion, is a fantasy that people cling to when people aren’t interested in them. That’s just lying to yourself.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              I have to agree with DMN. She put him in an awkward position. Saying I don’t know was as good as saying no. The text was sent probably because he felt bad and didn’t want her to think he intentionally mislead her and never had any intention of calling her anyway.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

            • Paula Says:

              Frequently that involves properly grasping a given situation and not asking awkward inappropriate questions nor delivering brutally honest responses.

              I agree that her question was awkward and inappropriate, but his response was not “brutally honest.” He didn’t say “wow, your pussy wasn’t shaved and I find hair down there masculine and smelly, so I don’t think I’ll be having sex with you ever again, and certainly no oral because it feels like a cat passing a hairball and causes me to confuse your clitoris with your vagina.” Or, “you didn’t go dutch on the ice cream, and I feel like you’ll take advantage of me, even though I got what I paid for through multiple sexy times.” Or, “In our conversation I learned that you will not change your name, so I will sleep with you but never will marry someone who will do not do this little thing for me.” [These are all jokes, by the way…] He said, “I don’t know.”

              Maybe she wouldn’t be more hurt by the dishonest response — maybe she likes being lied to and deluding herself that she would see him the very next weekend. If I liked the guy, I would be confused and hurt about not seeing him again, but would be even more so had I learned that he lied to me to make me think that I would when he knew all along that he had no intention of seeing me.

              And I dunno, but when I ask someone a question that involves a yes or no answer, and they say “I don’t know,” then that indicates they are either confused or don’t know what they want. Because that’s what I say when I’m confused or don’t know what I want. When I do, I say “yes, let’s do it again.” Or “no, I don’t think so.”

              But one thing I learned in my education is not to ask a question that you don’t already know the answer to. When do you that, you don’t have to give someone the opportunity to save face (a fancy word for “lying”). Her need to ask the question preordained the “no-win” answer.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

            • Maargen Says:

              I completely disagree that 1. The OP asked an awkward question and 2. This would give the guy a reason to lie to her (which he didn’t)

              The OP had a reason for asking if it would be a one time thing: I’m pretty sure it was so she wouldn’t bother to contact him again if he prefers not to continue. If the guy had answered “Yes. I’m really not ready for this” things would be clear to the OP. DMN thinks this would hurt her feelings? Sure, but finding out that it was a one time thing by having him ignore her messages makes her feel just fine, right?

              This demonstrates the point of this kind of lie. It’s not to spare the questioner, it’s to spare the liar. The OP will feel bad either way, but lying makes the LIAR feel better – he avoids any consequences to himself of hurting her to her face by hurting her at a distance. It’s simple cowardice.

              She asked a direct question in order to get information. She probably received the most honest answer he could give. Not being sure of what he wants is perfectly understandable under the circumstances.

              As for asking a question you already know the answer to, what’s the point in that?? I would think people would have the sense to ask neutral questions designed to get information that will help them in their decision making. I think it makes more sense to not ask questions you’re not prepared to hear the answer to, no matter what the answer might be.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

        • Andrew Says:

          Ocam’s Razor: The simplest answer is often the correct answer. It was probably not meant to be. Stuff happens! A princess has to kiss a lot of frogs to find her prince charming. What the first date sex thing does, it brings everything to a head quite quickly. This is especially pertinent with them having a 12 hour date. Making him wait may only have delayed the inevitable. We can over-analyze and probably come up with a reason as to his reaction to cut all ties. My sense is that he detected a feeling of over-clingy behavior on her part. And that was inconsistent with what he was looking for, given his forewarned statement about “what he was looking for”.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

  2. 2 cents Says:

    Ugh that stings.

    But he did say he was looking for something casual. He meant the text at the moment. I tend to believe that men don’t just call or text for the hell of it. Over the next few days he probably lost interest or changed his mind about being involved in any capacity with a woman. Either way you’re not getting what you want, I would assume from your submission, so it’s best to let it go. It’s hard I know.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  3. Paula Says:

    Never ask that question in the afterglow. DMN is right in that there is no meaningful answer to that question, because he’s going to do what he’s going to do, regardless of what he says.

    I don’t pretend to know what’s going on in a guy’s head…my luck sometimes is that I have great sex and what I think is a connection, and never hear from the guy again; and have mediocre sex and little to no connection and have the guy beating down my door for more. You just don’t know.

    My guess, though, was that it was more intense than he wanted to feel — 12 hours at a time/talking/multiple sexy times was not the “wham bam thank you ma’am” he’d rather be on the market for right now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Eh to the “too intense” thing. I think that’s something women tell themselves so they can think it meant something more than just sex. He probably just didn’t knw how to ask her to leave.

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      • Paula Says:

        So he kept nailing her instead. Nice.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

        • Trouble Says:

          Lots of people aren’t nice. Just another reason not to fuck them before you know.

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          • Paula Says:

            No, I know that, believe me, it’s just funny to me that a guy would think the solution for being unable to ask the woman to leave would be to keep having sex with her. I guess the cat got his tongue. Literally.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

            • Maargen Says:

              You’re right Paula. The supposition that he wanted her to leave but couldn’t figure out how to tell her is totally ridiculous.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              Where does it say he kept having sex with her? Maybe he had sex with her several times, hung out with her for a couple hours and realized they weren’t as compatible as he originally thought. I love how the woman is immediately the victim in this scenario. She chose to have sex with him without knowing him terribly well. He did the same. Once the booze wore off, maybe he just realized he wasn’t as in to her as he thought. It’s possible he was being polite by not asking her to leave. Or maybe she just wouldn’t go. What does someone do in that case?

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4

              • Paula Says:

                Where does it say he kept having sex with her? Maybe he had sex with her several times…

                If they had sex with her several times, he “kept having sex with her.” She also “kept having sex with him.” This is the plain English meaning of “kept having.” I’m not saying the woman is the victim: she chose to have sex with a guy who said he wanted a casual thing, and asked him a question that put him in a no-win situation.

                But you can always ask someone to leave, or at the very least, prevent your penis from entering their vagina. Everything from “I’ve got to get up early tomorrow,” or “can I give you a ride/pay for a cab home?” to rolling over, sleeping and ignoring the person until they go away is designed to convey the message that you’re not really into them any more. It’s certainly more likely to do so than “hey, let’s go at it again!”

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  But you can always ask someone to leave, or at the very least, prevent your penis from entering their vagina.

                  And he could have done both. He could have tried to gently get her to leave and she ignored it. And he very well could have talked to her for while and discovered he wasn’t in to her and chose not to have sex with her again. You have no idea how this whole date transpired, yet you’re assuming he just had sex with her knowing he was never going to see her again. Maybe he did. Or maybe he didn’t.

                  Everything from “I’ve got to get up early tomorrow,” or “can I give you a ride/pay for a cab home?” to rolling over, sleeping and ignoring the person until they go away is designed to convey the message that you’re not really into them any more.

                  Yes, that’s what rude people do to people they fucked and have no interest in and likely knew that from the start. Maybe he genuinely thought she was a nice person and just was stuck and didn’t know what to say. Or maybe he did give her all these signs. There’s no way of knowing based on what this woman said.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

                  • Cricri Says:

                    So many excuses!. Maybe, maybe, maybe… so people have repeated sex in the same interval, spend 12hrs together and somewhat he couldn’t muster the willpower to send a text, email, pigeon later and say “I don’t think this is going to work”?.
                    If you don’t know what to say to people, you stay away from them. Otherwise, it makes you look like the (damaged) asshole that you possibly are. Let me get this straight, could he be that clueless while he was communicating and sharing all about his erections with her, but suddenly put off/ confused about whether there would be a second time? Could he have texted her/emailed her right before closing his account? Whether or not someone has “good reasons” to behave that way is irrelevant, when what is perceived is quite confusing.
                    I think she should have waited before having sex with him, not because waiting means wanting a relationship, but just because it is a safety measure. I have never had this type of arrangements, but I figure, first meetings are in general to make sure the guy isn’t a serial killer of some sort and that everyone is ok about doing that type of hook up. If she had waited to set up a real sex date, I’m sure that guy would have bailed before if he was as confused as we assume he is. Maybe you should email her your guidelines about casual sex.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

                    • chuckrock Says:

                      or maybe you should place less importance on sex. If she was entering something casual – she knew what she was get into whether she admits it or not. When you enter into something casual you are implicitely saying to the other person that you don’t think having sex is a big deal (therefore any conclusion you are making regarding that sex is a big deal to some people throughout this thread are irrelevant to this specific situation.)

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

                  • Paula Says:

                    yet you’re assuming he just had sex with her knowing he was never going to see her again.

                    I did not assume that at all, Moxie. I took him at his perhaps socially awkward yet probably truthful words, “I don’t know.” This all came from whether he reacted the way he did because it was all too intense for him to handle. (We apparently disagree on that point.)

                    If a guy hasn’t had sex for a year, says he wants something casual & consistent (which tells me he’s not your typical POA/player type), then has a bunch of sex in one night with someone he just met, he may not know for sure the next morning whether he wants to go there again. All the related emotions, hormones coursing through your system, and lack of sleep can feel overwhelming (especially when you’re not used to them) and interfere with your ability to make an on-the-spot decision with certainty. I’ve been there, and I refuse to believe the male brain is so much different than mine that he was incapable of that level of post-coital indecision.

                    I do think it’s less rude to ask someone to leave (and even less so for them to get the picture and choose to leave) than to fuck them under false pretenses. Having been on both sides of the pity fuck equation, I think it’s one of the worst things you can do to another human, and truly regret any role I’ve previously played with that dynamic present.

                    I have no information either way whether that’s what happened, but think it is less likely when someone has sex several times than when it only happened once. I am also skeptical as to whether bad sex or pity fucks are a solution that most would prefer to an awkward conversation. If so, I bet that’s a mistake they will only make once.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

            • VD Joe Says:

              When I want a woman to leave, I usually have sex with her. My crabs usually chase her right out the door.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

      • Paula Says:

        He’s 38 and hasn’t had sex in a year since his last relationship. Either he’s really really hung up on his ex, or he’s not really cut out to have the casual sex he says he wants. A guy of that age not having regular sex, then having it multiple times in a night with someone he just met?

        There’s some reason he’s shut down for a year, which is probably related to his reaction now.

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        • bree Says:

          Paula I have a hard time believing this man didn’t have sex in a year…thats usually a ploy from men to get “sympathy sex”.
          Rarely do men go that long without sex when they are single…..lol the only ones that do that are married men and even then it’s highly likely they are having an affair.
          But hey….anything is possible…

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

          • chuckrock Says:

            It happens all the time…men just don’t usually admit to it.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

            • nathan Says:

              Bree – I’ve had long stretches of celibacy between relationships. I’m not into casual sex, so it’s easy for six months, even a year to go by if I’m not dating someone I really like. Chuck is right – men often just don’t talk about that kind of thing.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

              • breebree Says:

                Good for you Nathan….ok let me qualify my statements Nathan and Chuck….Never have I known a man to go for that long without sex……but then most of the men I know are black, hispanic and latino……..

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  4. Vox Says:

    Whenever someone refers to dating me as being “casual” for whatever reason, my expectations of that guy shrinks down to zero. The very fact that they tell you it’s casual means it most likely isnt going anywhere. I’d say 95% chance.

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    • Andrew Says:

      Thank you Vox. If I said something along the same lines, I would get beat up on this board. Casual means he just wanna hit it. Women, listen to Vox! If you want that too, then cool. If not, don’t walk, run!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  5. chuckrock Says:

    i think it is quite possible that he just didn’t thnk the sex was any good.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6

    • Cricri Says:

      I agree, this is why he had to screw her several times in a row, just to make sure!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

      • chuckrock Says:

        Well, it was may have been more like: she’s already here might as well go with it and see if it gets better as the night goes on. I have slept with several women where it got better the more times we did it.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  6. Rock Says:

    I didn’t get past the fact that it was a marathon date. I mean, really?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    • Andrew Says:

      Rock, guys have been know to hire prostitutes to spend the entire weekend with them. The marathon date don’t count for squat. He wanted casual sex. Its just part of the process that he was willing to endure.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  7. Selena Says:

    The oddest part to me is that he took his profile down 30 min after their 12 hour date. I’m not as convinced as the OP the guy isn’t married or in a committed relationship – maybe “casual, but consistent” meant he was looking for sex on the side, but felt guilty about cheating once he got it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    • Paula Says:

      A long time ago, I went on a personals ad date

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Paula Says:

        Oops, premature send.

        The personals ad date was with a guy who was recently out of a relationship. We had what I thought was a great date (with sexy time), but afterwards, he seemed to have remorse. He emailed me about a month later to apologize. He said that he was back with his girlfriend, and that our time together made him realize he wasn’t ready to date anyone else.

        Too honest? Maybe for some, but I preferred the explanation that made all his behavior make sense. I don’t know what this guy thinks about the girlfriend from a year ago, but if he hasn’t had sex since, maybe he’s still carrying a torch for her.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

        • dimplz Says:

          I think it’s moot to email a person a month later with an excuse. I don’t see it as decent, more like a person with an inflated ego who thinks a month later you’re still carrying a torch. If you couldn’t be decent before, you may as well just fade to black, unless he’s working some 12-step program

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 7

          • Paula Says:

            We disagree. I wasn’t carrying a torch, but I appreciated it, so I didn’t have to wonder if it was something I did.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

          • Cricri Says:

            Come on! It’s never too late to make amends. It’s not a question of ego, if you feel deep inside that you might have hurt somebody or simply behaved in an unethical way, even by your own standards, why wouldn’t you send an email to that extent? Behaving like people are roadkill is what makes dating a freaking minefield.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

            • dimplz Says:

              I don’t disagree, but it sounds like it was just one date. I don’t think he owed her anything.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

              • Paula Says:

                Yes, but sleeping together ups the ante on the Fade, in my opinion. I had a sense from the difficulty he had afterwards that I wouldn’t be seeing him again, but I did appreciate him contacting me and explaining what was going on. I never did run into him again, but if I had, what he did would have made it much less awkward.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

              • Cricri Says:

                I don’t know why it is about owing anything to anybody!!! I don’t owe anything to the elderly, yet I help them cross streets and get seats in public transportation. It’s about regard and respect, not debt.
                They had sex, which is “sort of” a big deal for some people. It’s not that people don’t know that their behavior could be hurtful, it is just that they choose not to deal with it. Doesn’t mean that there are no consequences. I think people do these follow ups because it makes them feel good themselves, then maybe the other person will also benefit from that clarification as well. Obviously, if I receive that type of email, I would get that it wasn’t about something I did or that he was some evil douche bag using women, personal confusion and drama played a part. Relief for everybody!
                He only took a month for him to contact her back. At least, we can hope it didn’t affect her future dating situations. I would have been somewhat bitter and possibly angry ( at myself and the guy) which would have played against whoever I would be dating next. Bad mojo. Regaining balance is primordial.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

                • dimplz Says:

                  Please point out to me where I said he was evil and a douchebag. Lots of people have inflated egos. Doesn’t make them evil. You just wrote “I think people do these follow ups because it makes them feel good themselves” which means it also has to do with ego. Nothing evil about it, and I’m not trying to demonize anyone. It’s simply my opinion that if you are mature enough to make a decision that’s sort of a big deal, you may want to wait and not sleep with a stranger, being that’s it’s a big deal and all.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

                  • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                    Seeing as though this story has nothing to do with the original post, can you two please just agree to disagree and let it go?

                    Thanks.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

                  • Cricri Says:

                    I didn’t say that’s what you said, just that it’s the common thing people think of after that type of stuff happens. I did think that way several times in my life.
                    Sorry for the off topic tangent!

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

            • Vox Says:

              What amends need be made after one date? One date leads to nothing most of the time – do you believe that it’s the sex part which makes amends due to her?

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

              • Paula Says:

                We don’t have to have the Fade conversation/debate all over again. You think the Fade is appropriate and would rather have it than an awkward conversation. I don’t think the Fade is appropriate and would rather have a conversation, even an awkward one, than the Fade.

                Whether this guy owed me anything or not, I’m glad he contacted me, and I don’t think doing so meant he had an inflated ego. An inflated conscience, perhaps, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

                • Vox Says:

                  I don’t think the fade is appropriate after sex, and as such I don’t have sex with people on the first date. I can’t control the actions of other people, so I focus on my own actions. For me, this includes getting to know a person before i sleep with them. Expecting people to act a certainly way because you believe it’s the right thing to do leads to disappointment.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

                  • Paula Says:

                    Even getting to know someone is no solution to this particular problem…and really, it’s worse to get burned/dumped/Faded by someone you thought was a friend than a stranger, especially if they are someone you have to see again.

                    The worst experience I ever had in this regard came from a friend, where we hooked up once, and he proceeded to create drama around that for several years. I knew he was emotionally unavailable, which is why I only wanted it to be a hookup, but I hadn’t realized just how emotionally stunted he was until he generated more drama than most guys I’ve actually dated.

                    There are objective standards of how people should treat each other, but Vox, you don’t believe in them, so there’s no point really discussing what they are.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

    • Maargen Says:

      I wonder if the profile wasn’t removed, and instead the OP was blocked from seeing the guy’s profile, would she be able to tell the difference? Is that something that depends on the site?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    • Andrew Says:

      more like blocked his profile from her!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  8. Selena Says:

    When he told her he wanted something casual, but consistent he didn’t add “with you”. If one agrees to something casual, they can’t predict how “consistent” it will ever become.

    The OP asks if she should have made him wait. No, if she really only wanted something casual … it wouldn’t have made a difference. But it sounds more like she wants a “consistent” relationship – in which case it might be wise to get to know the guy for awhile instead of having multiple sexy times on a first date.

    In asking if this was a one time thing, she may have revealed that casual wasn’t entirely what she was looking for. Or he took it that way.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    • Paula Says:

      The “casual but consistent” comment was before they met, so he’s not going to say “with you.”

      If most guys were honest, that’s probably what they would say they want, until they meet a woman who makes them want to be serious. It could happen in a whirlwind, as a result of “The. Best. Sex. Ever.” But highly unlikely.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      • Selena Says:

        Ofcourse he wouldn’t say “with you”. Doesn’t mean that wasn’t what the OP was hoping(expecting?) after their 12 hour marathon.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • dimplz Says:

          He’s not responsible for her feelings, though. She is. If she can’t handle a casual thing, she shouldn’t be getting herself into that situation.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

          • Selena Says:

            Yes I agree dimplz. Why I suggested she might have been focusing on the “consistent” part of what he said more than the “casual” . Sometimes people agree to casual when they really want something more. Can lead to misunderstandings and hurt feelings if one isn’t clear on it with their self.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

            • Paula Says:

              The difficulty for some people is that “casual but consistent” looks a whole lot like a developing relationship.

              Instant chemistry? Check.
              Regularly spending time together? Check.
              Lots of sexy time? Check.
              Taking your time to develop feelings? Check.

              The only question is whether feelings will develop: obviously it’s less likely to happen from someone who has declared it casual, but there’s no guarantee it will happen even if you’re “dating,” or “exclusive” or whatever you call it before you make a longer-term commitment.

              Otherwise the woman thinks “after a bunch of this goodness, he’ll develop feelings for me,” and the guy thinks “I told her I only wanted casual.” Her question doesn’t necessarily indicate she wanted anything more than consistent, but given how much the two situations look alike, he very well could have interpreted it that way.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

              • Cricri Says:

                I agree! This is why all of this casual shtick is boring and confusing. Even for people who can handle their feelings and know the difference between casual and LTR, the beginnings are very similar. Personally, I can’t tell the difference because I only sleep with people I like and I always make sure we are on the same wavelength, meaning, this is not a casual thing if we’re having “ze intercourse”.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Paula Says:

          Selena, I was just replying to this from your earlier post:

          When he told her he wanted something casual, but consistent he didn’t add “with you”.

          We don’t disagree that “of course he’s not going to say ‘with you’.” What we don’t know was whether the OP was hoping for a relationship even though he said he wanted casual, or whether she was trying to figure out if it was going to be consistent or one-time only.

          Some women hope, even against staggeringly high odds, that a relationship will result from these circumstances. Others just want to keep a good thing going, because even if you’re going to have sex casually, it’s better all around to have it with a lower number of guys, especially if you’ve found someone with whom the sexual compatibility is high.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

          • Selena Says:

            Paula,
            I got the idea the OP wanted some more of the sex “consistently” since she texted him to get together again a few days later and he never replied. She asks Moxie though if she should have waited. Waited to have casual sex? What difference would that have made?

            When women question themselves about having sex “too soon” it’s almost always because they hoped for something more than a one-nighter. So it’s just a guess on my part that the OP may have been putting more emphasis on the word “consistently” than the word “casual” after she spent the night with guy. She’s disappointed, that’s all.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

            • Paula Says:

              Casual + consistent aren’t mutually exclusive. Casual + consistent = friends with benefits. Casual but not consistent = booty call/f*ck buddy.

              There are a lot of people out there (and I’m putting myself in this category with the current men in my life) who prefer casual + consistent to a committed relationship, one-night stand, or booty call that often is only available on his terms or isn’t possible to pull off without advance planning.

              She called him several days later for something that evening, and he didn’t respond. Sounds like her attempt at a booty call, which didn’t work. Sure, she’s disappointed, but it isn’t necessarily because she wanted a relationship, but because she wanted something regular.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

              • Selena Says:

                Sure, she’s disappointed, but it isn’t necessarily because she wanted a relationship, but because she wanted something regular.

                That would be my guess as well. But asking Moxie if she should have waited…..?

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

                • Paula Says:

                  It’s harder to analyze this situation because it’s not coming directly from the OP, but has been summarized by Moxie. I’m not saying that Moxie slanted it, but sometimes there are specific tell-tale phrases that convey more about where an OP is coming from than a summary of the situation.

                  She might be asking “should I have made him wait?” because she’s heard the “rule” if you want to see a guy again is to not have sex with him on the first date. Or she might be asking because what she did obviously didn’t work to reel him in, whatever she planned to do with the fish after she’d hooked it, so wondered if there might be a better strategy. Or she might have wanted a relationship but knew that she needed to play things cool and casual given his “I don’t know” comment.

                  Bottom line is that we know she didn’t get the outcome she wanted when he didn’t respond to her, and she’s wondering whether her approach was faulty, but we don’t know what outcome she did want. And often it’s more situational than gender-based…not she wants a relationship because she’s a woman and he wants casual because he’s a guy, but she wants whatever will lead to seeing and sleeping with him the most often until both can figure out what beyond that they may want.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

                  • Selena Says:

                    If someone wants a FWB (casual + consistency) perhaps it’s better to wait until the friend part is established instead of jumping right to the benefits. ;)

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    • Andrew Says:

      Thank you Selena. They were at odds over expectatios. The guy wanted casual. The guy detected clinginess, went home and blocked his profile from her and ended contact. Why do people have a hard time figuring this one? Not having sex in a year. That is cheesy, but a ploy none the less. Why do women who want more, continually go on dates with guys who want casual? I really don’t like the obvious answer here.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • nathan Says:

        Andrew, who know if the guy hadn’t had sex in a year or not. I think the main thing is that he said he wanted something casual, which you, I, and several others here agree is just that. And you’re right that perhaps he sensed some desire from her for more, and decided to block her and end communication.

        Frankly, if you’re hoping for something more than a hook up, it’s really best to post pone the sex. Apparently, a lot of folks missed that memo.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  9. dimplz Says:

    All of this could have been avoided if she would have listened to what he said. Casual means casual. It doesn’t mean, until I find out how awesome you are, or how good you are in bed, or how compatible we are. Learn to listen. Most people could avoid so many problems if they did just that.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  10. Laura Says:

    I think it’s a huge mistake to have sex on the first date whether you’re looking for something serious OR casual. If she had just kissed him or even done more but not slept with him, we wouldn’t be having this whole conversation. Not saying I haven’t had my own one night stands and sometimes regretted it, but if you do that, you’re setting yourself up to be disappointed. You don’t know the guy well enough to know what’s going to happen after.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

  11. Rodger Says:

    Like I tell all the women I know: If you really want less confusion in your life, stop opening your legs the same day you meet a guy. Nothing ever good seems to happen after that.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

    • Ellie #1 Says:

      If a guy stops liking a woman because she slept with him, then she’s clearly dodged a bullet there.

      As for nothing good ever happening, I slept with my boyfriend on our first date, and I’m now in the best relationship of my life. I’d call that pretty good.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

      • bree Says:

        Ellie I agree with ur very first statement of “if a guy stops liking a woman because she slept with him……..”
        However everyone and every relationship is different.
        Which is why dating is like playing craps….You have no idea what the outcome will be typically until time passes and things happen however they happen. No matter what you take a chance. Once you choose to take the chance take responsibility for your actions and don’t have any regrets about it.
        You made the choice and did what you did. Like they say you can’t control other people, you can only control yourself.
        Best to let that situation go and move on…

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Vox Says:

        I think it’s more accurate to say that he never liked her in the first place. Men who have no interest in dating a woman will still have sex with her if she’s willing.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

      • Rodger Says:

        So you put out on your first date and that makes for good general practice. Ok.

        By the way, whether he admits it or not, your boyfriend knows that you are easy and is always wondering how quick you’re going to jump ship onto some other guy’s dick.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

        • chuckrock Says:

          I disagree. This may be your old fashioned way of thinking, but it is not every guy’s way of thinking. Please don’t prescribe your views to anyone else besides yourself.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

        • Ellie #1 Says:

          My boyfriend is an intelligent and rational person, and as someone who actually knows him, I’m willing to bet that that thought crosses his mind no more often than the same crosses mine about him. Which is to say, never.

          And I never said it makes for good general practice, I said that if a guy would judge a woman negatively for the very same thing he did, then they’re not worth a thing, as I’m sure you’re not.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    • dimplz Says:

      The two aren’t related, but I agree that if you have more time to assess your feelings, you might be able to avoid a messy situation.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Rodger Says:

        You can say the two are not related but for some reason but most messed up women I know that are unstable, unhappy and unfulfilled in their relationships are also the ones most likely to put out ASAP with a guy they just met. In my personal experience I know that the women that will ultimately be the worst to deal with and cause the most drama are the ones trying to jump in the sack on our first date. You say the two issues are unrelated but my experience and the people around me show me a different story.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

  12. C Says:

    He told her he wanted a casual relationship (which in my mind, means hook-up). They hooked up. He was over it. I don’t understand why this girl is over-analyzing this and pressing him on the first date (12 hours or not) about the future frequency of such dates. If he’s not calling, he’s NOT CALLING. How much more honest can he be?

    I was set up once with this guy and we had developed a bit of a friendly relationship over the phone for a couple of weeks. I thought we had great chemistry. Well, we finally went on a date and the chemistry was just not there. The guy asked me CONSTANTLY if I was having a good time (and also told me he was a human lie detector). What was I supposed to say? No? And then be cut into tiny pieces? So I said “yeah, sure”. I might have had a good time if I had not felt so pressured to have a good time! When he dropped me off, he asked me if I would call him again (and also demanded a kiss that he did not get). My response?

    “I don’t know, because it is long distance…”

    He put me on the spot numerous times and I lied because I was so uncomfortable. The date was over and he knew it but he would not just let it go, and the more he pressured me, the more I felt like a caged animal.

    My point is, leave it be. If they were meant to be together, it would have been apparent on their date and in the days following. Maybe he just changed his mind, and he is entitled to that.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    • bree Says:

      C I don’t understand for the life of me why grown azz people can’t just tell the damn truth……what do u have to lose if you plan to never see the person again…..???????
      It’s so much easier to just say no I don’t feel like we have any chemistry and I won’t be seeing you again…..good luck and God bless and walk away…
      If anything if you continue to lie to people and tell them what they want to hear you give them a false sense of security and have them thinking things are what they aren’t……and wonder why they still call and ask questions…..duh…
      Once someone knows your not interested typically they will leave u alone….(unless they are a nutcase or bipolar). Nobody wants to be with someone that doesn’t want them.
      It’s kinda like playing dead……you can’t play with anything thats dead so it’s no fun and no chase so game over…..the end.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

      • Andrew Says:

        He told her the truth. He said he wanted casual. She just didn’t want to hear it

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • C Says:

        “Nobody wants to be with someone that doesn’t want them.”

        You are oh-so-wrong there. There are plenty of people that refuse to accept the signs that are slapping them repeatedly in the face that it’s just not going to work out. Those people are not going to just give up after the first try. And honestly, the guy that I had this horrible date with KNEW it was over. He never called me again after that. I didn’t have to be a total bitch to him to get the point accross. But I WAS riding in a car with this person that I barely knew (and who was displaying signs of emotional instability) and the idea of pissing him off was not so desireable to me at the time.

        Maybe it was a defense mechanism?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • breebree Says:

          C I definitely see your point about being smart and not being too hasty while riding in the car with someone who may be a nutcase…..lol.
          Typically though once a person knows without a doubt that u don’t want them unless they are truly “emotionally unstable” or a damn stalker or self righteous or whatever they will leave you alone.
          Most normal people don’t want to deal with the drama of trying to be with someone who clearly doesn’t want them.
          Now sometimes folks don’t make it very clear that they don’t want to deal with the other person…..I’ve know people who did this and were very vague about….and the reason was because they wanted something from that other person and they were using them so even though they didn’t want to be with them they didn’t want to totally cut them off…
          I’ve also seen this with couples including married couples. When one person needs the other for money, housing, or whatever of course they aren’t going to be mean and forward about not wanting the other person because they need them.
          So my question to you C is how did you know for sure how this man felt and what he thought unless you asked him and he told you????
          Maybe in your mind it was horrible, but it may not have been horrible to him. Maybe you thought he should have known it was over but in his mind things were fine and you were the only one who had a problem with the way things went and he didn’t……..just a case of miscommunication. It happens all the time.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • C Says:

            I don’t know for sure how he was feeling about me, but his behavior signaled that he was more interested than I was. Maybe I lied because I am from the South and I feel like I have to be nice to people, haha. But seriously, I did not lead him on. We had a short relationship over the phone and I was genuinely interested and excited about our date. When we met, that all fell apart. Like, immediately. It was just different and I am not completely sure why. But the point is, I changed my mind about him and I was not in the best position to shoot him down on our date. If he HAD called me after that date I would have definitely told him that I did not see a future (in a nice, Southern way).

            Now, on to the people that use others. I have known individuals like this also and I think it is wrong. One of my former friends once told me (while she was cheating on her boyfriend) that she wanted to wait to dump her boyfriend until he took her shopping again because she wanted some new clothes. That? Is deplorable behavior. She? Might have been a sociopath.

            Saying something vague in an awkward moment in an attempt to defuse the situation? I think that is a little more understandable. Maybe even forgiveable.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

            • Paula Says:

              C, you didn’t have sex with him, or even kiss him, sounds like, so while I might have handled things a little differently, I agree that he was putting you on the spot. And being in his car requires additional concern for your safety.

              But — and I’ve known a number of Southerners that will kill you with sweet-tea kindness while stabbing you in the back — you could have just blinked, batted your eyelashes, and said, “Sugah, why do you ask? Are *you* having a good time?” Or, “I don’t have time to have a good time if you’re asking me if I am every five minutes.”

              (Granted, it’s always easier to come up with this sort of thing when you’re not being pressured, but it’s more about an approach or philosophy of dealing with people that you’re not going to resort to a lie when you’re in an uncomfortable situation. If you have at hand a way to turn back any questions that you’re not comfortable answering, then you’re much more likely to fall back on that technique in uncomfortable situations, rather than digging yourself deeper and deeper to the point that he is genuinely puzzled and confused why you won’t go out with him again.)

              If the OP is reading this, hopefully she’ll realize that her question putting him on the spot, while perhaps not a beaucoup faux pas, did steer things in the direction of him providing her either confusing or deliberately deceptive information about his future intentions.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

              • DrivingMeNutes Says:

                So I understand, you’re now saying its okay to be dishonest as long as you haven’t kissed or had sex. I don’t see why that matters.

                C was justified in being dishonest because it was socially appropriate. It doesn’t require us to redefine terns like “lying”. It was a lie. And that’s fine

                You are entitled to follow any rules you like. You just can’t expect others to follow them. And if your purpose, like mine is, is to accurately perceive situations for the purpose of giving advice or bettering yourself, the only thing that matters is what other people are actually doing. If they are dishonest, you must deal with that. Your personal preferences, pet peeves and rules are irrelevant. Your naïve, moral outrage, even if sincere, is irrelevant.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

                • Paula Says:

                  No, I didn’t say it’s okay. Where did I say that?

                  But lying to a spouse typically has more consequences than lying to a stranger. Neither are acceptable, despite your attempts to brand them “socially appropriate.” What I was saying, as I did with the OP, is that someone who asks a question oblivious to the cues that would render it socially inappropriate is more likely to receive an answer that is untrue. Doesn’t justify it, doesn’t magically make the lie not violate centuries of moral code that govern how people in a collective society treat each other, but statistically makes it more likely to happen.

                  As a woman, however, I will entertain a “this guy sets off all my intuitive safety alarms where the thought that he might chop me into bits does enter my mind unbidden” exception.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      C’s comment illustrates the issue very well. There are, in fact, social rules. And, a range of behavior that is objectively socially acceptable. (By the way, one of those rules is NOT “You must never lie” as C’s comment illustrates very well) Some people simply refuse to follow the rules. Why? Because either they think rules don’t apply to them, or they otherwise feel they’re above rules, or they are simply oblvious. This is just like the guy in the other post that doesn’t like E-harmony’s rules because it doesn’t let him chat the hot chicks the way he prefers (disregarding of course whether the hot chicks want to chat with him). Being socially oblivious, by definition, means you don’t know that your behavior is not within the range of normal. It’s always these same people that are confused and respond to their predicaments by demanding that others change their behavior so as to make their lives better.

      The inability of some people to recognize the faux pas in the OP’s story is pretty remarkable to me. Not surprising, I guess, but worth noting.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

      • nathan Says:

        I’m not so sure there are a single set of social rules or a clear range of “objectively socially acceptable” behavior. And when it comes to online dating, I think we’re all making up at least half of the rules and ways of acting all of the time.

        Take a simple thing like responding to an e-mail. Some people respond right away, worried they’ll lose someone if they don’t. Others respond right away because that’s just how they are online. Still others will wait a few days, thinking it will show the other person they aren’t “needy” or “desperate.” Another subset wait a few days because they have a back load of other e-mails. Still others sit on e-mails for days, even weeks at a time, debating about whether they want to plunge into a conversation. And some do the same because they’re not online much, dating others, or are simply being lazy in responding.

        Now, the reality for anyone who has sent an e-mail is that you don’t have any idea why someone is responding in the time they do, nor can you apply some kind of widely accepted rule around the time you have waited to get the response. Because there aren’t any. A quick response might turn off one woman, and make another feel appreciated. A slow response might do the same. Who the hell knows.

        The thing about the OP’s situation is that casual these days can mean anything from one night stand to long term connection that borders on relationship, but has none of the emotional intimacy or depth of an actual committed relationship. So, I think there is plenty of confusion, and not a lot of easy to define social rules around that.

        I steer clear of anyone who speaks of wanting something “casual” or anything that sounds like casual for this very reason. If the woman in the story wanted something more than casual, she should have skipped over this guy as well. But it might be that their definitions of causal didn’t match up. I’m honestly not sure from the information given.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • Paula Says:

          Pretty much every culture has a form of “don’t lie” as a value. Whether you follow the Ten Commandments, the Koran, or anti-perjury rules before a court of law, lying violates the boundaries of “objectively socially acceptable” behavior.

          DMN thinks lying’s OK if it serves a greater social good, or if the person asking the question that generates the lie was out of line asking the question. While I agree with him on almost everything he posts, and he often agrees with me as well, we will always have to agree to disagree on this one.

          I won’t lie, and I won’t put up with anyone who lies, whether it’s in a friendship or a relationship. I have ended relationships, whether dramatically or gradually, as a result of learning that someone lied to me. It has made me sad, but it’s a switch that flips in my head that makes me unable to trust someone after that, and there’s no use trying to pretend that the relationship will ever be the same.

          The guy above could have said “I don’t know” if he wasn’t sure whether he wanted to see the woman again. Oh wait, that’s what he did say. Or if he positively knew he didn’t want to see her again, he could have said, “I’m not really ready for a relationship right now, so let’s play it by ear.” Or, “let’s talk about that later.” Or “it’s been fun, but let’s leave it at that.” I have said those things to people I don’t want to see again, so I don’t see what’s so hard about it.

          Or what I just said to someone: “I don’t think we’re sexually compatible, so if I see you again, I don’t think we’re sleeping together.” (That’s to bent penis guy.) When he wanted further details, I said, “I don’t want to have this conversation via email, but I think you know where I’m coming from.” Awkward? Sure. But the feeling I experience from dealing with an awkward situation is miles better than the one I would be in if I lied.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

          • Angeline Says:

            Or, “let’s talk about that later.” Or “it’s been fun, but let’s leave it at that.” I have said those things to people I don’t want to see again, so I don’t see what’s so hard about it.

            Those are all deflections, not “the truth”. I don’t see any difference in any of those statements from his “I don’t know” statement, except that they’re a little more polished.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

            • Paula Says:

              They *aren’t* any different than “I don’t know.” People were savaging the “I don’t know” for its honesty and/or awkwardness, but assuming that he was saying “I don’t know” because in that moment he really didn’t know, that’s what I would prefer to hear, rather than “no, this isn’t just a one-time thing” in a situation where he knew otherwise.

              It seems like people assume that if you’re not telling the full/harsh truth, the only other option is lying. However, there are a number of things you can say that aren’t as hurtful that don’t involve sending someone down the wrong path and misleading them about your feelings or intentions.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

              • nathan Says:

                Well, I have yet to meet a person who is 100% truthful all the time. If someone says they like my shirt and the really don’t, who cares? It’s not terribly important. The people I want in my life are those who will be honest when it matters most, who aren’t going to hide major parts of their lives from me, who won’t mislead me, and won’t hide their views on important issues, especially if they are different from mine.

                The tricky thing, though, when you first meet someone is that you don’t have a basis of trust established. Furthermore, you don’t know what might trigger someone, or greatly upset them. So, it’s sometimes hard to know how to handle the truth. I can’t tell you how many times women have gone on dates with me, and weren’t interested in seeing me again, or were not sure if they wanted to, but instead told me to my face “yes, let’s go out again.” My guess is that this comes, in part, from not wanting to upset me. And also perhaps from negative experiences with guys who got pissed or who hounded them after they made their rejection.

                I’m not saying I enjoy being lied to like this. I’d prefer that a woman would just say she’d rather not see me again, instead of leaving me thinking otherwise until I call or e-mail her and she blows me off. But I also can understand how it happens, and why it happens. And I have learned not to take it personally anymore

                Furthermore, the reality with the OP is that we don’t know if there was lying involved or not. The guy might not have been sure, and so he said “I don’t know.” And there was only a “couple of days” of silence after their text message exchange. Who knows what’s going on for the guy? Maybe he’s confused. Maybe he’s truly busy. Maybe he’s disappearing.

                This is the thing about “casual” that often doesn’t work. One party wants no strings fun, while the other party wants more of a connection, and then is frustrated or confused when there isn’t one. A couple of days of not hearing from someone is nothing when you’re talking about no strings fun – seriously, it could be two or three weeks before she hears from him, and he hasn’t thought anything of that, because he didn’t want a relationship.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

                • Paula Says:

                  Well, I have yet to meet a person who is 100% truthful all the time.

                  You must be a New Yorker.

                  Seriously, as I explained to Angelina…there’s a difference between 100% truthful and 0% untruthful, and I don’t think you should use the difficulty of achieving the former as an excuse to deviate from the latter.

                  I’m sorry these women have lied to you. You didn’t enjoy it, and as you said, would have preferred that they just admitted that they don’t want to see you again.

                  The OP here probably felt similarly, and while asking the question when and how she did didn’t help matters, I don’t think an answer other than “I don’t know” would have helped matters or changed the outcome.

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                  • nathan Says:

                    Paula, I’m from Minnesota. The Midwest. We’re known for being honest and friendly. Even then, my point still stands.

                    I think if people aim for truth, and intend to be truthful, then they’ll do their best in difficult situations. But it doesn’t mean that they’ll always end up saying the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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                    • Paula Says:

                      I’m from the Midwest too — it was a joke based upon my Coffee Talk post about the Honest Tea Honest Cities experiment.

                      But, as my trainer reminds me, “Do. Or do not. There is no Try.” Those who only “try” to be truthful are more likely to abandon the truth in difficult situations. And if you’re emulating George Washington, “I cannot tell a lie,” then you’re going to get much closer to “the whole truth and nothing but the truth” than someone who doesn’t.

                      Personally, I think the OP’s date was telling the truth and intending to be truthful when he said he didn’t know if it was a one-time thing, and when he had a chance to reflect, decided against seeing her again. So I don’t understand why folks are acting like he has some form of dating Asperger’s.

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                    • Maargen Says:

                      My friends and I were discussing this sort of thing recently, and we seemed to feel that there’s a difference between telling the truth and saying what needs to be said.

                      Let’s say I go out on a date with someone I never want to see again. For me there’s only two reasons that could be: he’s either rude or boring. If he asks for a second date, I don’t see the need to tell him I find him rude or boring – although this is the truth. What DOES need to be said is anything that makes it clear that there won’t be another date. Anything that leaves things ambiguous (“I don’t know”, “I’ll call you”, “I’m busy these days”) doesn’t help matters.

                      In this situation, I always use the same response “I really don’t feel we have enough in common to sustain a friendship, so I think it’s best we move on”. This makes it clear that there’s no “can we be friends” option.

                      If it’s a guy that I had fun with, but I’m not attracted to, I say “I had a great time – you’re a lot of fun! I don’t feel any chemistry though. Feel free to call if you want to hang out or chat sometime” Most (not all) guys I say this to do call, and I treat them like a friend, making sure to mention another date fairly early in the first conversation. If he still want’s to hang out – I’ve made a new friend.

                      As soon as I’ve figured out that the guy isn’t who I want to date, I let him know. Not with “brutal” honesty. Not by being evasive until he gets the message. Not by being rude. But always by telling him what he needs to know.

                      I don’t know why guys can’t do the same thing.

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                • breebree Says:

                  Nathan my comments about not understanding why folks lie it was directed at C and her saying how she lied…..not the OP subject of this discussion.
                  And your right nobody tells the truth all the time. My thing is when folks lie about senseless stuff…..like not saying u don’t like someone and agreeing to go out with someone your not feeling just to save face…..it just makes no sense to me.
                  If I don’t like someone I tell them that….I refuse to go out with someone I don’t want to go out with…For what? It’s a waste of time for both of us. The least I can do is allow that person to move on to someone who may really like them, even if I don’t.

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                  • breebree Says:

                    Oh but I cannot tell a lie….if I was paid enough to go out with someone I didn’t like I would definitely consider it….lol

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      • Selena Says:

        DMN,
        The guy just wasn’t as ‘*into* her as she hoped. Hasn’t that happened to ALL of us? The guy stated he wanted a casual but, consistent thing. I don’t think her asking him if it was a “one time thing” was much of a faux pas. Certainly not a beaucoup faux pas. The outcome would have been the same had she never uttered the words.

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        • Angeline Says:

          I agree, and I wish we knew more about her mindset (and actual words). *IF* she’d said, “ahh this was fun. I like the idea of casual and consistent! Let’s do this again.” and left it at that, that might have removed any worries about clinginess on his part, and he *might* not have disappeared. I don’t think asking the question automatically implies that she hoped for more, we’re just going with the odds on that. But women have to have in their minds that men will assume that women will hope for/press for more, so they need to do some extra reassurance that they truly are OK with casual, if they are.

          I’m not on board with Paula’s Total Honesty At All Times policy, but if people were more honest and clear WITH THEMSELVES about what they want and where heir hearts and minds are all along, it might avoid some confusion. “I really am OK with the casual thing” and after taking your temperature, “I think I’m gonna have to step back, I’m liking this a little too much” or “I’m maybe not so good with the casual concept as I’d hoped” inspires a lot more respect on all sides. Yes, I’ve used that last one, I knew he was not ready or interested in anything more, and we stopped seeing each other at that point, and have remained on good terms.

          All that said, he still might have disappeared anyway, for any of the possibilities mentioned already. Except I think it’s less likely that the sex was bad than that the time outside of the sex was off-putting in some way.

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          • Paula Says:

            I don’t have a “Total Honesty At All Times” policy as much as I have a “No Dishonesty at Any Time” policy. Sometimes “no dishonesty” means remaining silent, or a smile and a shrug. Sometimes it’s a deflection, as you pointed out. Sometimes it’s a Cliff’s Notes version of the truth that gives the listener enough tools to fill in the blanks. And yes, sometimes it’s Total Honesty, but that really depends on the situation and the listener.

            It’s life, not a Jim Carrey movie. People may call me lots of things, but socially awkward or deliberately cruel have never been on the list to those who know me personally.

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            • Angeline Says:

              Thank you for clarifying that, I had the wrong idea, and I *did* have some Jim Carrey-esque images in my head :) I have a few people in my life who either have zero ability to recognize nuance or have outright Aspergers, and it is exhausting after a while.

              Whether the guy’s “I don’t know” statement was a hedge to get her out the door and off his back, or if he truly meant it, we can’t know. Your definition above sounds about perfect to me, yet I’d still cut this guy a break, either way – because “I don’t know” certainly isn’t a promise to continue or anything else.

              It is sad to think that people can be told something that ambiguous and non-committal, and *still* try to make it into something.

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        • breebree Says:

          Selena how do any of us know for sure what the outcome would be had things been different??
          The only difference is that if she said nothing and the question was never asked on her part 9 times out of 10 the guy would not have said anything at all and he wouldn’t have been put on the spot.

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      • breebree Says:

        DMN even though u must never lie is not necessarily a socially accepted rule it is one fo the 10 commandments and something that people shouldn’t do half as often as they do…..(including me) lol

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  13. bree Says:

    I don’t understand why women don’t hear exactly what a man says instead of what they want to hear and take it for exactly what it is.
    Most times when someone answers I don’t know to a question either they really don’t know or it’s a polite way of saying “no not really”.
    Women need to stop expecting more of men who specifically tell them what the deal is and what they want…..pointless waste of time.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  14. Mike Felber Says:

    It is unknown if he lied, shaded the truth, or changed his mind later. But anyone who wants to be decent, respected , & is at all responsible should not just stop responding to calls or messages. The 1st rule of any relationship or contact, however brief, is “do no harm.”. Though it seems likely OP wanted more than he was willing to give, & better to leave her interest open.

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    • bree Says:

      Mike he told her he was only interested in something “casual but consistent”.
      Meaning he wants an fwb and he wants it to keep going on and on if it’s good…if not he ends it.
      Quite possibly he didn’t enjoy sex with this woman…..which is why he chose not to continue to consistently on a regular basis sleep with her. Many times the other person does not enjoy the sex but never says a word because they dont’ want to “hurt anyone’s feelings” ……boohoo…
      I think he was pretty clear about what he wanted….honestly it’s not his problem that she only heard what she wanted to hear (like many women do).

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

      • The Reluctant Monogamist Says:

        Funny – he didn’t like sex with this woman, but he did it multiple times? It couldn’t have been THAT bad if he went back for seconds or thirds.

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        • chuckrock Says:

          Nekkid woman (who was attractive enough to bang) in your bed ready willing and (well not able possibly)….who would not go back for second and thirds? I don’t think whether it happened once or more than once in the same day/night can say anything about whether it was good or not.

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          • Paula Says:

            chuckrock, I think you’ve already established that you have a higher tolerance level for bad sex than most men, from what you describe of your ex.

            I know I’ve been in situations where I would rather roll over and go to sleep than go back for seconds and thirds, or figure out a way to get home safely, and I would imagine that guys who complain about sex bad enough they wouldn’t go out with the woman again would also have a strategy for wrapping things up that didn’t involve having more bad sex.

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            • Crotch Rocket Says:

              Sex can be bad enough that all the time, effort and expense of another date aren’t worth it yet not bad enough I would turn down a second round if she were already naked in my bed. Plus, sometimes women are really nervous the first time with a new guy but are better the second (or third) time around.

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        • breebree Says:

          Monogamist I do know many people who repeatedly have sex with their partner and they hate it….and many of them are married….
          Have’t you heard about the married women who never have orgasms? Trust people have bad sex all the time……
          This guy seems like a punk and didn’t want to hurt her feelings or deal with her reaction if he straight out rejected her so it should come as no surprise that he would sleep with her just to make her feel good and again not reject her………

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  15. sarah Says:

    If one does not want to go through this angst, one should not sleep with someone on a first date. Its the exception that it leads to any type of relationship

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4

    • Rodger Says:

      Could not agree more.

      I’m a guy and even I know if a woman is begging to get in bed with me on a first date to turn around and walk away. Probably just that annoying habit I have of letting my big head win and make smart decisions when it is having a discussion with the other head.

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  16. Saj Says:

    Wow there is entirely way too much debate on semantics.

    Girl slept with guy on first date. Guy didn’t call her back. Guy was never interested in more then sex. Would waiting have helped? Who knows. We don’t know what the guy thought of the OP. We don’t know if he was thinking she’s pretty annoying but if she’s down for sex I’ll take it or I just want sex and hey I got it, time to move on.

    Waiting may have had a smaller chance of him thinking she’s cool chick, we have more in common then I thought but many guys tend to either be In or Out pretty fast (not to the point of commitment right away but wanting to see this girl as much as possible).

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  17. Mike Felber Says:

    Right Bree on the general definition of casual. I did not debate that his words were clear. And it is good to deal with “semantics” God/meaning & mutual understanding is in the details. He may well not have enjoyed the sex, &/or he could have many other feelings, his own issues, It is impossible to know how much of each of these things might have been involved from the available information.

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  18. Paula Says:

    I love love love Dan Savage…and I too know many people who have “met dirty,” (forgot he called it that). Most of the people I knew in college “met dirty,” and all of them are still married over 20 years later.

    It’s not how or where you meet, it’s who you meet.

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  19. blah blah blah Says:

    Casual relationship= once?
    Well, why do they call it a casual ” relationship” then?

    Just because you sleep with a guy on the first date doesn’t mean you should just assume he’s going to ditch you. They obviously enjoyed their time together, for TWELVE hours. Isn’t that hot? For a first date, thts amazing. Even if they never had sex, or only sex, either way it would be a pretty great date.

    He said he wanted something casual and consistent. That means he thinks he wants little drama, great flexibility, but NOT a one night stand. If he wanted a one night stand, he should have put that in his profile. All these people mad that a woman is confused, hear me out:

    If you say casual relationship, it should mean just that. Pressure, drama free good times! !nd if you text after a casual hookup, drooling about how good it was, that creates the expectation that a future of 12 hour sessions is a possibility.

    But it you say casual relationship and MEAN one night stand, you’re confusing and a crazy maker.
    If you say CR, text/drool and then fade, you are a flake!
    Look just imagine you make a new friend, and hang out together for an afternoon, wouldn’t it be weird if they wouldn’t return your phonecalls? Even in a platonic situation, ignoring people is rude. And it always makes people feel bad when theyare ignored. You wonder “what did I do wrong?” Did I say something to offend?” Should I overexamine this for clues?
    This girl is normal, in a sad situation, with a guy who is so normal its pathetic. And that’s why your still single :)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    • Dimplz Says:

      This is what everyone seems to be overlooking. If they are having a casual thing, and ok consistent, why does that mean he has to be tied with her? Can he have multiple casual but consistent things. The answer is yes. He’s not any more committed to her than anyone who isn’t married is connected to the bf/gf. Shit happens and things change. Roll with the punches. There are no guarantees in life.

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    • breebree Says:

      I think by “casual and consistent” simply meant he wanted an “fwb” type of situation but later for whatever reason he changed his mind about it with her……..

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  20. LT Says:

    I think it sounds like the OP was hoping to turn “casual and consistent” into a LTR down the road and that very, very rarely ever happens.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      AFACIT, it only happens when it is the man who decides to upgrade things later; I’ve never seen it happen when there woman was the one to instigate something more serious.

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