Where Are All The Great Single People?

I’d like to know where to meet single men over 40 in New York City. I’ve tried church, online dating, speed dating events, volunteering and all other places people recommend but it seems all that are there are women and a few men. I work on Wall Street and see men at lunch time, but it seems after work everyone over 40 disappears. Is it that men are just working and going home? Help!! – Karen, NYC

The reason why you’re finding mostly women at those activities is because many of them all have the same idea – this would be a great way to meet men. The truth is, at our age, dating does have a competitive edge to it. At any age, there’s a sense competition. But it’s much greater when you hit your late thirties and older.

Here’s why:

Because there are fewer and fewer available, healthy men to go around. Either men have decided to feast off the smorgasbord presented to them or they have absolutely no need or use for commitment or settling down. Or they’re dysfunctional. Or…and I’d say this is a healthy percentage – they’re considered “not good enough” by their target audience. Which is funny considering those same women who are passing them up are being turned away themselves. It’s a vicious cycle. Women say they want an available man. Just not that available man. They want an available man who is X, Y and Z. Meanwhile, what they bring to the table isn’t comparable.

And men are no better. We’ve talked about the profile some men write where they describe their ideal woman and it sounds like an extension or replica of themselves. Well, if they’re so awesome, why are they single? Oh. Right. They refuse to settle. Somebody said it in the comments recently and they were right on the mark. We look for reasons to blow someone off. The questions is: why? Here are a few reasons:

1. We’ve gotten by this long “alone” so what’s the rush? - I truly believe this is a myth. While there are some people who are truly and wholly self-sufficient in both the financial and emotional sense, for the most part we have a support system that we can fall back on in trying times.  As human beings, I believe we need that external validation and connection.  If someone is surrounded by other single friends, then there’s nothing compelling them to look past that particular circle. Only when their single friends fall away do they feel the need to look for a partner. As long as a man or woman has a steady stream of suitors, be it relationships or even just first dates, they’re going to be conditioned to believe they will always have that and therefore they have plenty of time to meet someone. Those of us who have done online dating for a long period of time know that when you hit a certain age, the responses just dry up. That’s when the hunt starts to become more…aggressive. Those standards that we lived by for so long suddenly become more flexible, only not in the areas where they should. We tolerate more douchebaggery. We believe more of the empty promises.  We end up in bad relationship after bad relationship because we chose to ignore what was in front of us.

2. We don’t like ourselves - Shame can be a powerful anchor. It will hold you down and keep you in place so that you do not move. That’s where all the casual relationships come in. They’re safe and contained and present no risk of true vulnerability. You can be whomever you want to be because that other person doesn’t care if you’re embellishing or not.  Your secrets and flaws are safe.

3. All we hear is the downside of commitment and relationships, so what’s the point? – Honestly, could the media and blogs be more down on relationships? I’ve hit my threshold for all the bitching, snarking and whining. I have no problem with dating or marriage or commitment or monogamy being presented realistically. There’s two sides to every argument. But these sites devoted to discussing only the downside of dating  just exhaust me. Namely the sites about snarking on bad dates.

4. We’ve given up. - After shame, I think hopelessness is the next most powerful motivator to stay single. I read things that people write and they’re trying to hard to sound like they’re open and flexible and willing. But they’re not. It’s just a series of excuses and reasons why they’re too afraid to try anymore. Listening as people rationalize it depressing, because you can hear the fear and sadness in their voices.

Nopw that that’s out of the way, let’s try to answer the actual questions:

Where are all the great single people?

Well…I’m going to say this: I don’t think they’re online. Some are, but if they’re truly worth their salt, they’re in demand. So if you’re going to do online dating, you need to let go of all the rules that you’ve been clinging to for so long. You are going to have to be more flexible and acommodating. You’re going to have to compete and invest time in to crafting and maintaining your profile. If all of that sounds like too much work, get off those sites now. You’re just going to end up going on a series of “meh” first dates. That will lead you to become burnt out and jaded and sad.

OP, keep doing what you’re doing. Go to church because it provides you with an hour a week to just reflect and  strengthens your faith. Volunteer because it helps other people. Go to speeddating because it’s a great way to keep your conversation skills sharp. Do online dating because it exposes you to people you wouldn’t ordinarily meet.  Online dating and speeddating is to help people “date.” These sites don’t sell relationships for a reason. Most people are on those sites to get dates and dates only. Sure, a relationship might develop from one of those situations. But for the most part it’s just a place to get dates.

I don’t know if there’s a particular location or way to meet people that is more successful than the other. I think what makes those efforts successful is your attitude. Be willing to try something (or someone) without knowing much about it/them. Stop trying to control the whole experience. Let go of the suspicion and drop your guard a bit. And be kind. Do all these things with an open mind. That’s the edge that you need. Don’t do these things with the sole purpose of finding a boyfriend. It’s disingenuous. Plus it gets in the way of truly getting to know someone.

People get so caught up in determining if someone will make a good long term partner that they’re not really getting to know someone. They’re looking for red flags. Well, everyone has something about them that serves as a red flag. Date someone to get to know them and to enjoy their company. You’re never going to really know someone until you spend a considerable amount of time with them any way.  You have to muzzle that ticking clock, biological or otherwise, going on inside you. That’s when the true connections develop, as you’re more open.

 

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101 Responses to “Where Are All The Great Single People?”

  1. D Says:

    As one of those guys (43 years old, though not in NY), I can say that I do get a lot of attention online. This is a recent phenomenon for me. It’s a function of my “good on paper” status: good job, no kids, in good shape, still young enough to be active.

    Practically all of the women who contact are also in their forties (and unfortunately not attractive to me), but there are enough to where I can easily have 3-4 dates per week.

    That said, I still do other activities to meet women. My preference is dance and exercise classes (kickboxing, aerobics). I also go to the library and bookstores but honestly haven’t had much luck there. Which is a shame because I’m looking for someone who likes to read like me. I’ve also thought about taking a cooking class.

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    • Paula Says:

      Are they not attractive *because* they’re in their 40s?

      We’ve discussed it here before, but in my experience, there are a lot of guys in their 40s who won’t date women their age, which skews the pool even more unless as a woman, you’re willing to go younger as well.

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      • K Says:

        Yeah, actually, I’m curious about that too. Sorry if this is off topic. I see a lot of guys who put their max age as a few years younger than them. I’m not criticizing – if that’s your preference, it’s fine with me, but I’m wondering if it’s because you never find women your age attractive, or you’re considering child-bearing issues, or some other reason? I’d think guys would be fine with someone *up to* their age, if not any older.

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  2. Devon Brown Says:

    One sentence in this post struck me as 1000% true – “Don’t do these things with the sole purpose of finding a boyfriend.”

    I think so many people are looking for a relationship that they forget to find out about the people they date. But even more, they forget to find out about themselves. Being part of a couple becomes the all-consuming goal of everything they do in the worst case scenarios.

    And I think this doesn’t stop at dating either. So many times people get into relationships and then change completely. They become someone they weren’t when they were dating. And then they wonder why things start to fall apart.

    The best relationships happen because two people, who know who they are and like who they are, get together and have a desire to know about the other person. If they then decide they like who that other person is, a relationship starts out strong. And it stays strong when they realize that they are an individual in a relationship. That they haven’t lost themselves or changed who they are. It isn’t the worst thing in the world to be yourself, even when you are part of a couple.

    Just a couple thoughts…

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  3. joe-f Says:

    Forget about doing what Moxie said at 40 and over, do it sooner. Don’t wait until ALL your single friends are married. I did what Moxie said at 29 and after dating several girls (one at a time), all of whom I devoted time and effort to, I learned what I really want in woman. At 33, I finally found someone good. Finding someone good might take several years going through several relationships so don’t look for someone when you really need to.

    My girlfriend has a sister and three single friends in their early thirties. They have all asked me to introduce them to guys. I cannot even think of one. All the good ones are in relationships, married or gay. The only single guys I know who are left are players or dysfunctional (gambler, haven’t had a job in ten years, loves video games more than girls etc.)

    To the op, you have put in the same effort to meet someone as you do on your job on Wall Street if you want to be successful.

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  4. j Says:

    New York is filled with guys of every age. If you stop and count, it’s a non-stop sausage party.

    Women typically ignore the guys who 1) don’t have a great introduction, 2) may not be the upper 90% in terms of physical attraction, 3) don’t make a huge amount of $, 4) may not live where you’d like them to live.

    There are plenty of great single guys everywhere in NY. Ladies, it’s just not fair when you ignore most of the guys around you, and then complain “Where are the guys? “

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    • Breebree Says:

      Exactly j….New York City is a big azz melting pot of men and women of every race, culture, and ethnicity you can think of.
      She should go to a Salsa club or take some kind of dance lessons…she can surely meet folks that way.
      She probably needs to be more open minded and “think outside the box” and be open to dating other races and cultures and men who may not be her physical “type” . She may be pleasantly surprised.

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  5. UESIder Says:

    Women and men in New York suffer from too much choice, not too little. Ladies, if you’re 45 and a little chunky you’re not going to attract a hedge fund millionaire. But there are plenty of guys who are perfectly capable of giving and receiving love. Guys, if you’re 45 and a little chunky you’re not going to attract a 25 year old former model who is now a high-powered attorney who would give it all up to bear your seed. But there are plenty of girls who…well, see above.

    I think we all make the mistake of making perfect the enemy of the good.

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  6. Paula Says:

    Online dating and speeddating is to help people “date.” These sites don’t sell relationships for a reason. Most people are on those sites to get dates and dates only. Sure, a relationship might develop from one of those situations. But for the most part it’s just a place to get dates.

    That’s one of the most important lessons I had to learn from about a year of online dating. It’s easy to blame yourself when none of them work out, especially since I’ve long since internalized what Trouble said the other day [If everyone you meet sucks, the common element is YOU. And, only you can fix that.] But I’ve met some very cool people, some of which are still part of my life, and polished my rusty dating skills, so it hasn’t been all bad.

    Here’s what I think is happening to a significant number of people in their 40s who are trying to date, but have not succeeded in ending up in a relationship. Once you get older, and are much better at knowing yourself and what you want out of life, and have had one or several significant relationship failures, you’ve had to put your life together on your terms, not anyone else’s. Those other friends were the ones who were there for you when your partner went away, and you’ve learned to fill the time with things that make *you* happy, as opposed to another person. When you’re younger, so much of your validation and self-esteem comes from other people, and can change on a dime, depending on what is happening in your life. The older you get, the more you realize it has to come from within, and that you can’t constantly put yourself in situations where people try to take it away from you and still emerge unscathed.

    So, yes, I’m more picky than I was when I was younger, when I thought that being single meant I was defective, and when I was willing to accept qualities in my partner that were very harmful and destructive to a healthy relationship. I *don’t* tolerate more douchebaggery. If I compare my life now as a single/dating/FWB person to what it’s like after a breakup with a douchebag, I’m happy to stay where I’m at until a non-douchebag comes along.

    I haven’t given up, and I’m not postponing looking for someone, but I’m also not just taking the first thing that comes along just because I’m in my 40s and there are fewer guys from which to choose. And my female friends who are single locally are also in pretty much the same boat: perhaps we’re keeping each other from having so many relationships, but also helping provide the support that keeps us from automatically accepting bad relationships.

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  7. Teeka Says:

    It seems like the OP is looking for a quick fix. What J said above is true; NYC is crawling with single men. It’s not like they’re all in one place hiding from you; although I agree it does feel that way sometimes! If what the OP is already doing (which seems pretty good to me) is not working for her, she either needs to change her tactics or change her attitude.

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  8. Crotch Rocket Says:

    “Where Are All The Great Single People?” If they were all that great, do you think they’d really be single?

    “I … see men at lunch time, but it seems after work everyone over 40 disappears. Is it that men are just working and going home?” A fair number of them, yes. Keep in mind that many, if not most, of those men you see are married and going home to their wives. Still more are divorced and working their asses off, while keeping little of it, so they can afford the alimony and child support–and may have custody that night as well. Either way, many will be rushing off to pick up the tykes from school/daycare and take them home or to other events.

    “I’ve tried church” Keep in mind that most men stop going to church in their teens and don’t start up again until they have kids–and the type that go to church regularly are less likely to divorce. So, the goal there should be to build a social network (not the Facebook kind) by meeting couples; if they know a single guy that would be a good match for you, they’ll be compelled to set you up by their own desire to have another couple to hang out with.

    But here’s the most important problem: “single men … in New York City.” Ya see, in the Northeast, single women outnumber single men by a significant margin; you’re losing the battle every time you write the next month’s rent check to stay there.. In the South and West it’s the opposite.

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    • Breebree Says:

      She should also keep in mind that Church folks can be some of the biggest hypocrites and liars of anybody.
      NEVER should you go to church looking for a man or woman…..Church was created as a sanctuary to worship God!

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  9. Ruffy Bond Says:

    I need to rewrite her question:
    I’d like to know where to meet single men MY TYPE over 40 in New York City. I’ve tried church, online dating, speed dating events, volunteering and all other places people recommend but it seems all that are there are women and a few men MY TYPE . I work on Wall Street and see men at lunch time, but it seems after work everyone MY TYPE over 40 disappears. Is it that men MY TYPE are just working and going home? Help!! – Karen, NYC

    I’m single, 42, never married, no kids, no drugs, no disease, great credit, co-op owner, fully employed, Catholic, with driver’s license, no prison record, I have a lot of friends (my favorite activity is entertaining in my home) my parents have been together 43 years so far, I’m well traveled internationally and domestically, well read (love the classics), into films, music especially rock, jazz and classical. I play bass guitar for a rock band, I write short stories for fun. I love to camp, hit the beach and be away for New Year’s. I’m ready to settle down, get married and have kids.

    But I’m on match, okcupid and eharmony, have gone on speed dating and hardly ever get any dates. I don’t know what women are looking for. I’ve been looking for YEARS. I also go on alot of meetups where there’s a big chance of meeting someone. Usually we’d hit it off at the events then afterwards my e-mails and text go unanswered. I’m on the same boat as Karen. What other trait am I missing? I’d love to meet women if only they would give me a chance.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      One…what do you do for a living?

      Two…do you live on your own?

      Three…where do you live in NYC?

      At 42, you’re probably dating women 32-40, yes? Well, if you’re dating anybody that lives in Manhattan, you need to live here or Brooklyn. Not Queens or Long Island or Jersey or Hoboken or Staten Island. The women in that age range (as well as the men) don’t have to go out to the boros to date. They can meet plenty of people right in Manhattan. We can do the whole elitist thing, but nothing said here is going to change anyone’s minds

      If you have roommates, get rid of them and move out on your own. A guy who lives with roommates is immediately deemed immature. Not poor. Immature.

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      • Paula Says:

        >>>A guy who lives with roommates is immediately deemed immature. Not poor. Immature.

        Can’t you just date a guy with roommates and get to know him first, before immediately deeming him immature? It seems your advice to K also applies here.

        I know some guys in their 30s and 40s with roommates who are definitely immature, and their place still looks like a frat house. And I know some who make the deliberate choice to live with roommates, usually long-time friends, and have both a functional household (including regular grown-up parties) and healthy savings account to show for it. You just never know….

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        • Ruffy Bond Says:

          I haven’t had a roommate in 10 years!

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        • pistola Says:

          I also disagree with the housemate/roommate thing. I have far more money in savings and small investments due to my choice to share a living situation than other people I know with the same income who choose to live alone. If you don’t have kids, sharing living space is one of the best ways to save money.

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      • chuckrock Says:

        How can you advice that Brooklyn is ok but not Queens? that makes little sense. Also, the quality of life is better in the boroughs typically so, if he does not already live in manhattan then he shouldn’t necessarily be looking in manhattan for women to date – but in the boroughs.

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        • Ruffy Bond Says:

          From my observations, singles meet up in Manhattan then settle down in the outer boroughs or NJ.

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      • Ruffy Bond Says:

        One…what do you do for a living?
        I’m a web designer, I work from home.

        Two…do you live on your own?
        Yes, I live on my own, in a co-op I bought last year. It’s a studio in Inwood/Manhattan, perfect for a single guy. I’d have to move out once I’m hitched.

        Three…where do you live in NYC? Inwood.

        At 42, you’re probably dating women 32-40, yes?
        30-42 is my age range

        Well, if you’re dating anybody that lives in Manhattan…
        I live in Manhattan, I will date anybody anywhere. My last date used to commute from Cold Spring. We broke up but it was not about physical distance. I’d date anyone, in any of the boroughs, and have no problem with towns in Jersey (I grew up in Jersey).

        If you have roommates, get rid of them and move out on your own.
        I haven’t had a roommate in 10 years!

        Seriously I’ve listed everything about me, things I find “marketable” what else am I missing?

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Then it may have nothing to do with you and just a product of what dating has become. Everybody thinks they can do better. If you’re willing to travel, then try to meet women in Boston or DC. Or try meeting women who are artsy/techies. There are TONS in this city.

          It used to be that the men where the ones to be considered commitment phobic. Not any more. There are just as many women now who are extremely ambivalent/uneasy with the whole idea of emotional intimacy and commitment. It’s not just about having that “bigger, better thing” mentality. It’s wrapped up in self-esteem, fear and self-perception. I think a lot of women our age (we’re the same age) have just dated so many “wrong” guys that they no longer trust their judgment or instincts or are completely battered and burnt out. So that’s part of the problem, too.

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        • Vox Says:

          Hold up, what do you look like? Are you short, or fat, or do you have an unattractive face… Or a combination of these? Because those things count to women too, especially online when decisions are made quite quickly.

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          • Ruffy Bond Says:

            I’m 5’9, 180 lbs. I’m a runner, though I haven’t run any marathons, I’ve ran three halves. Working from home enables me to run during my lunch hour here at Fort Tryon Park. Unattractive face? I don’t know how to define that. I used to act in college and I’ve been an extra on Law and Order (“Masquerade” episode), other than that I don’t know how to judge myself that way. I don’t wear glasses and I like to keep my hair buzz cut.

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    • K Says:

      Ruffy Bond – Wow, I don’t live in NYC, but if I did, I would be interested. I’m 35 and pretty new to online dating, but my guess is there may be things in your profile that are, unbeknownst to you, not sending the right messages. Have you had anyone look it over and see if there may be red flags? I notice a lot of weird stuff in guys’ profiles that they probably have no idea is turning women off. I had some in mine too that I totally wasn’t aware of until I had someone fix it for me (a similar service to what Moxie offers), and I got a lot more responses after that.

      Btw, I recently met a guy I’m really interested in who’s in his early 40s and never been married, and I have to admit I wonder why. I’m trying to figure out the best way to ask about it without being obnoxious.

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      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        I’m trying to figure out the best way to ask about it without being obnoxious.

        Can’t you just date him and get to know him? You’ll figure out soon enough why he’s still single. I don’t think you need to ask him why. This is what I;m talking about about how women need to have everything figured out. We do more harm than good with all the questions. Stop listening to your girlfriends, stop listening to the women online and just tune that crap out. Form your own opinion based on what you learn.

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        • K Says:

          Haha, thanks, Moxie, good point. You’re right, I have a good intuition and I should be able to figure out whether he’s for me without having to know all the details of his past.

          He has a good online profile, btw, but a lot of guys have some wack stuff in theirs!

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          • chuckrock Says:

            maybe he was never married because he never met anyone worth marrying. could be as simple as that.

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            • Trouble Says:

              True story. I say this all the time, but I’ll say it again. My boyfriend was 40 and had never been married when we met. Life (and his really chronic shyness) got in the way. It happens, it does not necessarily mean ANYTHING except that the person never met anyone that they really wanted to marry.

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      • Ruffy Bond Says:

        Hi K,
        It’s not just in my profile, I’m talking about meeting people in person. I’m in good to average shape (I run regularly, have done three half marathons). I only have 1 picture online, a close up shot of me (part of a band picture before we went onstage). Still I wonder what else women are looking for.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Send me your profile. One picture, especially just a head shot, isn’t enough.

          andthats at andthatshwhyyouresingle.com

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Okay. Something else to consider:

      Inwood might as well be The Bronx. It’s far. Really far. Doable. But far.

      Next, the whole “I play in a band thing?” Ditch it if it’s in your profile. You’re 42. Playing in a band is just as bad as having roommates. In fact, don’t tell a woman that until you’ve had a few dates. It sucks and I’m not saying it’s fair but you’re going to be judged for it.

      Working from home really messes with your social skills. It’s great that you get out as much as you do. So you probably don’t have much to worry about in that area. But be mindful of it. It’s hard to maintain those necessary filter when you aren’t constantly surrounded by people every day.

      I live in Manhattan, I will date anybody anywhere.

      Technically. yes, you do. But in the minds of others you live in the Bronx. And this “I’ll date anyone anywhere!” mentality possibly might be causing you to seem desperate or like you’re trying too hard.

      Have you looked in to coaching? Evan Marc Katz could really be beneficial. I don’t get any kick backs or commission from referring him. I just really, really like him.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Eh. All these “red flags” would be overlooked if the guy was physically attractive. That is obviously the problem if he can’t get A date. (There are single women in Inwood too.) No amount of coaching in the world is going to fix this. Fortunately, we can take some comfort that he probably occasionally rejects women for physical reasons too.

        I saw a really shady looking guy today with a handlebar mustache walking arm and arm with a woman. He had a biggest shit eating smile on his face, the happiest troll in NYC. His girlfriend? A blind woman. That guy’s got it figured out.

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      • Ruffy Bond Says:

        In terms of the “Manhattan” thing, if a girl doesn’t want to date me because I don’t live in Manhattan then seriously I don’t want to date them either. That mentality doesn’t end. It may be living in Manhattan now who knows what her requirements will be somewhere down the line. I love the city, I love Manhattan, but in the 42 years I’ve been around here it’s just left me single so I’m open to living in other places. As mentioned earlier, from my observances, singles meet in Manhattan then move away to the suburbs once they are hitched.

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        • chuckrock Says:

          I don’t know. Singles meet all over the place. Growing up in queens I feel like only a small percentage of my life long friends actually met the people wound up marrying in Manhattan. I think you underestimate the rest of the city and even nassau county.

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          • Marie Says:

            Suffolk is good, too. :-)

            I spent way too much time in Manhattan. I finally realized that most folks were there to have fun, but when they were ready to settle down they left the city and went back home. My friends started hanging out in the ‘burbs more in their late 30’s & early 40’s.

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      • K Says:

        Hey Ruffy Bond, just want to say that as someone who’s in your online dating demographic (except for the geography thing), I agree with Moxie – Having one pic is better than none, but 3-5 pics is a lot better. I literally always dismiss profiles without a pic, and those with one picture are borderline, particularly if that one picture isn’t clear. The playing in a band thing too… makes you seem like you either haven’t grown up, or would have limited availability to date in the evening if you’re playing gigs.

        I disagree with DrivingMeNutes that attractiveness is so critical. I actually tend to bypass guys who are very objectively attractive. Guys that appeal to me tend to be guys that the majority of women may not agree are hot. As long as you have other good things going for you, good grooming / hygeine, and are a decent dresser, you don’t have to be gorgeous. You definitely have to pay attention to your presentation though!

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      • Craig Says:

        Inwood might as well be The Bronx. It’s far. Really far. Doable. But far. – Moxie

        Manhattan is only 13.4 miles long and 2.3 miles wide at it’s widest point (around 14th street). There is thus nothing in Manhattan that is far from anywhere else on the island. Anyone not willing to travel a few miles to see me is not anyone I would want to be with long-term. If one expects to ever have a life-partner, they damn well better get used to being inconvenienced often.

        I know a woman who once lived in Woodside, Queens and was willing to date a good-looking lawyer from Hoboken, NJ because that’s where this quality guy she found happened to live – and that’s why she has a man, while some of you still struggle to find one. The long commute only lasted a year. She now lives the good life with her dude in a luxury Hoboken condo beyond her wildest dreams. The moral of this story is: sometimes you have to look at the big picture. Food for thought.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          More food for thought…

          If that woman had lived in Manhattan you might have had a very different ending to that story.

          I’m not saying I don’t agree that people need to broaden your horizons. But I’d love to hear a story from someone in jersey or Hoboken or Queens going on about how awesome it is that their partner lives in The Bronx or even The Upper East Side. Dating someone outside of Manhattan is a raging pain in the ass, especially where I live. It’s not close to a subway. Cabs are a ridiculous amount of money. The bus takes forever just to get to Penn Station. Hiking to Brooklyn in the snow is a bitch. Weekday nights are almost impossible. For the right person? Yep. II do it. But stop putting down people who just don’t have the time, need or even money for 90 minute commutes both ways.

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          • chuckrock Says:

            It sounds like to me, that you are the one that lives in the undesirable place. In manhattan but not close to a subway? wow. It may make dating someone in the other boroughs difficult and undesirable for YOU but not for most manhattanites.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              In manhattan but not close to a subway? wow.

              Yeah. And not a Dave in Busters in sight. It’s just tragic. I don’t know how we manage.

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          • grace Says:

            A guy with a car will nip all of that pain-in-the-assness in the bud.

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          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            All this location stuff just boggles my mind. WTF? It’s like many of y’all don’t want to find anyone.

            Relationships involve sacrifice. A lifetime of happiness with the right person is well worth a year or two of inconvenient commuting so you can date. And you’ll probably end up both moving when you get serious, again when you have kids, again for work (perhaps around the country–several times), etc. during your time together. My parents have lived in seven different houses in four states since they met, including a few years when the family was split between MI (me and my mom) and CT (my sisters and dad) for work reasons. And y’all aren’t willing to date someone because they live on the other damn side of a tiny island? Ridiculous.

            There’s an entire world of possibilities out there; civilization does not end a few blocks from where you happen to live at the moment.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              That would mean a hell of a lot more if you actually lived here. Funny how the people to always complain about how rigid we are for being adverse to dating outside the city beyond Brooklyn are usually if not always the ones who don’t live here.

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              • Crotch Rocket Says:

                Perhaps we’re the only ones with the perspective to see how silly you’re being.

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                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  Right. Aren’t you the one who said that if a woman told you she volunteered for a woman’s crisis center you’d “run for the hills?” Do please continue your lecture on how silly everybody else is.

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                  • Crotch Rocket Says:

                    Actually, I said I “probably” would, and I gave a logical explanation why. So far, nobody has told me that’s unreasonable or even given it a thumbs-down, though this comment will probably spark a few. If it came up after we met elsewhere and there was good chemistry, I suspect it wouldn’t be an issue, but a women’s shelter is one of the last places on the planet I’d be looking for dates. It’s important work but sucks as way to meet men, which was the context.

                    But if you want to equate that with being unwilling to date someone because ohmigod you and/or he might have to travel a couple miles to meet up, go right ahead.

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                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      And I said that if I met the right person, I wouldn’t mind the commute. It’s right there in my comment.

                      ” I travel “a couple of miles” all the time, almost every day, sometimes on foot. We’re not talking about “a couple of miles.” We’re also not talking about sitting in a car while we drive for 45 minutes or even an hour. Jersey, Long Island, Hoboken, Queens are not just “a couple of miles” away.

                      I met someone in Midtown for lunch this week and just going 40 blocks took me almost 45 minutes door to door each way. And that wasn’t even rush hour

                      When you are walking in the snow and rain, amongst hundreds of people, dealing with construction, waiting for trains and buses, making one or two or even THREE subway car exchanges, dealing with stalled trains and delayed buses while waiting in the rain and snow, do feel free to lecture us on those “couple of miles.” .

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                    • Karen - OP Says:

                      Crotch Rocket

                      A halfway house is where women go after getting out of jail or a drug treatment center. Not the same as a shelter

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                    • Craig Says:

                      And I said that if I met the right person, I wouldn’t mind the commute. It’s right there in my comment.

                      ” I travel “a couple of miles” all the time, almost every day, sometimes on foot. We’re not talking about “a couple of miles.” We’re also not talking about sitting in a car while we drive for 45 minutes or even an hour. Jersey, Long Island, Hoboken, Queens are not just “a couple of miles” away. – Moxie

                      How are you going to get the opportunity to “mind the commute” if you’ve rejected the person in the first place before even meeting upon finding out where they live? You’ve made it clear that anyone not in Manhattan or Brooklyn is not on your radar. Lastly, Jersey City, Hoboken, and Queens are indeed just a couple of miles away from Manhattan. Exactly how wide do you think the East and Hudson Rivers are?

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            • Vox Says:

              This location bias we have in NYC really is a function of online dating. That’s what most people do, and when all you are evaluating is the words & pictures on a computer screen, it’s easy to “next” someone for living in a place that is undesirable ( and exactly what is undesirable changes depending on the person). Why not, you don’t even know the guy? I’m not saying it’s right, or that it’s a good strategy to find a partner, but that’s the reality. It’s not different than screening for height.

              I would wager a guess that if Moxie met a really fantastic man out in the real world, and learned in a real-world way that he lived in Hoboken, she would not discount him.

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        • Paula Says:

          Everyone has their dealbreakers, whether it’s distance, profession, income, past relationship/marital status etc., or what someone said recently, which is to limit them to insanity, infidelity, addiction, and not working at all (I wish I could find it again or I would quote it specifically).

          Each of us has also has a way of rationalizing our dealbreakers, and maintaining that that particular line has to be held for our own well-being. And maybe they do. Or maybe they’re just a way of keeping us single. Basically, is being with a person with those qualities going to cause you more pain and stress, or harm to your self-esteem than not being with anyone at all?

          Personally, I don’t see the harm in starting to date someone far away (as long as it is doable by your current transportation options) and then, like Craig said, if it works out, you’ll be living closer to each other soon enough. But I’m sure that Moxie realizes that limiting her search to Manhattan and Brooklyn, and excluding guys with roommates or bandmates or AAmates is a way of limiting her options. Whether it’s for her own well-being or keeping her single, only she knows that.

          It’s hard to debate dealbreakers, though, on the basis of hypocrisy, because we don’t have each others’ lives and life experiences, and we all have them, just a different set of them.

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        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          “Anyone not willing to travel a few miles to see me is not anyone I would want to be with long-term.”

          This critcism of, and advice to, Moxie is somewhat empty to me. What is missing from the “you should make an effort and give guys a chance” advice is the criteria exactly that we are supposed to use to know whether someone is “worth” the effort. Obviously, you’re not suggesting we travel all over the country to have a first date with every single person that is interest, are you? We have to make judgments. And, the question is: Are those judgments valid?

          So, why don’t you put a little meat into your advice/criticsm. Craig, you met your gilfriend online, right? So, your story is you were getting tons of “ass” (presumably nearby) but then you fell upon someone who, you thought, was “worth” the effort to trek all the way out to Queens from Hoboken. This is from her dating profile, right? So what criteria did you use to know whether she, in particular, was worth the trouble? You hadn’t met her yet so – is it that she had really nice pictures and seemed hot?

          To me, I don’t see how it’s more “okay” to make dating decisions based on someones physical appearance or photos than it is “okay” to make dating decisions based on where someone chooses to live. In fact, because it is a CHOICE, where someone lives is a more accurate indicator of personality and values than is the color of someone’s hair or eyes, or height. There are differences between the personalites of someone who CHOOSES to live in the outerboroughs or Hoboken and someone who CHOOSES to live in Manhattan. Ya’ll think people who choose to live in Austin are the same as people who choose to live in Dallas because ya’ll are from Texas? Or Miami versus the Pan Handle? It’s the same in New York – the outboroughs have a different ethos than Manhattan. Even Craig says that his girlfriend left Manhattan and moved to Queens because she DECIDED she didn’t like the Manhattan scene. So, there must be a difference. And, that says something about her personality that Craig happens to prefer. But, that doesn’t mean Moxie (or anyone) prefers that.

          Those of us that choose to live in Manhattan do so for a reason and often that reason makes us less compatible with people who choose to live outside the city. One reason is we prefer convenience. We are willing to spend more and give up personal space for the proximity to things we like and the convenience. It’s a value that you critics simply don’t share. It doesn’t make us right and it doesn’t make people who live elsewhere “wrong” or “worse,” it makes them different. So different that we recognize it when we see it – in certain bars and clubs in NYC, or when watching Jersey Shore. People who come from these places stand out (and, I’m one of them by the way.) Get over it.

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    • grace Says:

      There are so many women in NYC who are dying to find a guy for a relationship. If you are not monstrously ugly, there is something in your personality that is turning these women off. This may sound like a crazy question, but do you know what women want from a man to committ to him or even date him? Women want to feel special, protected and listened to. How are you in these areas?

      I ask because a friend of mine who has little money can never find a woman for a relationship. At first I thought it was his $$ status, although I know plenty of women who are taking care of their men financially. Upon digging a little deeper, it became clear that he was unwilling to be the man in the relationship i.e. making the woman feel cared for and protected.

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  10. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    After work, there’s a short happy hour in the Financial District but most men who work on Wall Street don’t live there. Do you? These men don’t necessarily go “home” but they may go to their respective neighborhoods to go out or go out to more socially popular areas. I go out almost every night.

    I’m over 40 and single and a “wall street” professional. I don’t know whether I’m “great” or not for the purpose of what you’re looking for but I date a lot and meet most of my dates online or, less often, through mutual friends. This may be my unique experience do to my, shall we say, “personality defects,” but I almost never meet new women “cold” in bars or events unless I’m introduced to them by someone I already know.

    One final thought for the OP. You need to make sure you understand your market. Highly educated and
    sophisticated “wall street” types in NYC are not going to church. And, they are less likely to take religion or religious people seriously. The ones that do will very likely not be single at or after 40.

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  11. Beth B Says:

    New York sounds a LOT like Atlanta, GA, where I am…and probably a lot like other major Metros in the U.S. of A. I LOVE love love this post, Moxie; what you say is so important! Please listen to what this woman is telling you, people! Most of us are so married to our list of must-haves that we have swallowed the bait on the “not settling,” then we aren’t even open to folks who might really really love us and that we might love, or at least get to know and increase our pool of friends. Also, I think that men in their early 40’s are considered slightly too old for the women they want to date–early to mid-30’s if they want kids, probably–in my early 30’s I thought men over 40 were too old and I didn’t “need to settle” then…..law of supply and demand? Practicality? Law of Attraction? I do know that what I notice is that the older people get, the more they want what they want, instead of being more open, they are less. Just the opposite of what you need to be if you really want a relationship.

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  12. Steve Says:

    Church is not a good location, I’ll agree there. But online dating has quite a few more men than women. Ive done searches using identical criteria for a location for both men seeking women and women seeking men and get about 1.5x and up (depending on location) more men than women on match. Even a 50% advantage is huge. And speed dating is matched for the most part 50/50 so at least for the avenues you suggest, maybe quantity isn’t the issue but quality. But, as someone posted above, there are so many places where guys dominate. Just follow me around for a day:) But seriously, try male oriented activities like triathlon clubs, golf, rock climbing, team sports, business/investment clubs/seminars to name just a few. Us guys are also asking the question, where are all the single women. Yes we can find them at nightclubs, out shopping, the grocery store, the gym/yoga studio, the lingerie department, but these are not locations where you can easily start a conversation. They are spread out but there is no one location where you can find a large number of single attractive women where you can engage them in a conversation. So tell us where all of the cool attractive single 30s/40s women hang out. (other than speed dating, online or meetups which we already know about) Most of the time when we do run across someone that interests us, they are not available.

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    • Paula Says:

      In my area, there’s a megachurch with a singles ministry, and they get up to 2000 at their Sunday night events. My ex’s roommate met his wife-to-be there, and married her 9 months after they met, and others have told me it’s quite the sausage-fest.

      However, I think going to church just to meet people to date, rather than having any kind of spiritual purpose or because the church reflects your religious beliefs, seems to be missing the point. Not saying that Karen is doing that, but I agree with Moxie that you should only do it because it’s something you think is good for you.

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  13. Kurt Says:

    Women might want to consider joining an upscale gym located in an area where lots of successful men live or work. You can practically guarantee that many of the men who work out there are single and would be open to meeting a new woman. Plus, you would know that both you and the man have something basic in common – you are both dedicated to working out/exercising and staying in shape.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I actually used to belong to one of those “upsacle” gyms and left it specifically because the vibe and environment was so bad. the clientele seemed very tense and uptight. It was not afriendly group of people.

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      • Breebree Says:

        Moxie,

        I agree with all of your points and Kudos to you for great common sense advice to this op.
        The only really viable options I personally know of to meet single men are: Sporting Events, Sports bars, and yes the gym (doesn’t have to be upscale long as it’s a gym) especially one with an indoor basketball court, basketball courts, and any social networking event that specifically caters to something that is of interest to men or directly related to men, or volunteering at some place that caters to men.
        Why doesn’t she strike up a conversation with someone at lunch? Hell if she works on wall street I can’t understand why she doesn’t have a man by now unless she is too picky or those “type” of men don’t really want her.
        First thing is to figure out the “type” of man you want, then know yourself and if he would want you. If you have an out-going, bubbly, friendly personality it shouldn’t be a problem meeting men.
        I’ve met men on my way to the gym looking regular with the ponytail and sweats, I’ve met a man at the supermarket, I’ve had the busdrivers flirt with me on the buses I ride, I have had men stop and ask me if I needed a ride while simply standing on the corner waiting for the bus (though everyone tells me Never to take a ride from any strangers here in MD & DC because it’s just too dangerous so I don’t). I’ve also met guys at the mall at social networking events and online.
        As for volunteer work what type of volunteer work is this woman doing? If she is volunteering at an old age home or a place like a womens abuse shelter then no she won’t meet men there…now if she volunteered for habitat for humanity or a hospital there is a greater chance of meeting men.
        Also she should take advantage of everytime the Company she works for has a social networking event or happy hour cause she can meet men then, or if the company pays for her to take classes and/or go to school to further her education and get more degrees.
        I think also pt of why some women who claim to be active but say they don’t meet many single men may need to brush up on their conversational skills and socializing skills.
        Men have told me that they are put off by a woman who doesn’t look friendly and does not smile.

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      • Kurt Says:

        Maybe your gym was too upscale. I live in a big city in the midwest and use a nice gym that has cardio classes and yoga as well as good free weights and I know that people have met each other this way. The men and women are checking each other out all of the time and the hardest part is starting a conversation at an opportune time.

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        • grace Says:

          A 40+ yr. old woman has to be sure to have on some cute gym clothes. Schlumpadinka sweats will NOT cut it.

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        • Paula Says:

          I would be careful about this gym thing…when I’m at a gym, I’m there to work out. When I’m sweating profusely and trying to focus on my form and intensity, the last thing I want to worry about is trying to have a conversation with some guy.

          And, what Grace said, a woman in her 40s, especially if she has a few extra pounds, is not going to be able to compete with the gym bunnies in their 20s, even if she’s there because she’s “dedicated to working out/exercising and staying in shape.” The guys at my gym who are trying to hit on women generally come across as pretty skeevy.

          Instead, I would recommend a hiking/biking/running club or group training effort, which is less of a scene, still attracts people who are devoted to fitness, and enables much more one-on-one interaction.

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  14. grace Says:

    OP, I think one of the main things about dating in your forties, is that you have to REALLY be on your game in terms of both how you look and your credentials and I think this applies to both men and women. When I was in my 20;s and 30’s it really didn’t matter how I dressed or how much makeup I didn’t wear, men were constantly approaching me – on the train, bus, gym, stores, etc. I was once coming home from a dental appointment and had bloody cotton in my mouth. Two guys tried to get my phone number. During this smorgasborg of men, I was working dead-end clerical jobs, but none of these men cared. I am not making this up.LOL! Now @45 and a little chubby, I know good and darn well that I have to look good and know that the extra 25lbs just won’t cut it. Can you say Jenny Craig. LOL! I have also found that, unfortunately, when I put that I have a law degree (gotten later in life) in an online personal ad, professional men in our age group respond. Sad but true.

    I’ve had men in our age group, and older, tell me that women don’t even give them a 2nd look and that they feel invisible. Unfortunately, these guys don’t quite get that the parts of their appearance that they can control hved to REALLY be up to par. If you are younger, living with roommates, or trying to be an ACTOR, maybe you will get a pass. But past 40. Nooooooooo…..

    I;ve decided not to be bitter about all of this, but to see this as a challenge that we all eventually go through.

    P.S. I know a mid-fifties millionaire hedge fund guy who recently married a successful MBA. She is pushing 40 and not ugly, but not exactly a dish. I guarantee you that even with his millions, young, hot women in their 20’s over look him because of his wrinkles and bags.

    Honestly, I feel like

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    • Kurt Says:

      I have to ask you what type of men are impressed by your law degree? I am in my mid-30s and am a lawyer myself and most of the male lawyers I know say that they don’t want to date a female lawyer, although I suppose they would make an exception if she was attractive enough.

      Are these men you are meeting divorced? Maybe they feel as though they have been taken advantage of in relationships or possibly lost a lot of money through divorce and now want someone who has a decent amount of financial assets herself and is therefore self-sufficient.

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      • grace Says:

        I’ve had lawyers, psychiatrists and men in finance respond.

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      • Paula Says:

        Also impressed by a woman with a law degree are younger guys and ones who are into playing a more submissive role sexually or in a relationship. I had a recent offer from someone who wanted to play “office boy” to my “boss lady.” Ick.

        Usually, I find it doesn’t make that much of a difference either way (although I guess I wouldn’t know if it bothered someone so much they chose not to contact me for solely that reason.) Women definitely seem to be more impressed by men who are lawyers than the reverse, however.

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    • dan Says:

      I thought Grace liked to date older men as a recent post of hers suggested.

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  15. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Now @45 and a little chubby, I know good and darn well that I have to look good and know that the extra 25lbs just won’t cut it. Can you say Jenny Craig. LOL! I have also found that, unfortunately, when I put that I have a law degree (gotten later in life) in an online personal ad, professional men in our age group respond. Sad but true.

    This is what I mean about knowing what you bring to the table. I was going to mention this in yesterday’s post and I totally forgot. In my age range, say 38-44 or so, a man definitely puts more importance on how together the woman is. It’s passable to be 25 or 30 and living off family money. At 35 or 40? It’s a huge red flag, as is not having a job that guys consider stable or take seriously. I was reading something recently where a woman who runs some sort of dating-related website said that, when she told her Match.com date that she ran a business for singles, she could tell he was turned off. She assumed it was because he was conservative and worried it had something to do with sex and he was looking for someone to stay home and raise kids. More likely, he heard “online business for singles” and was concerned about whether or not she could actually earn a living or that she was looking for some guy to support her while she pursued this dream of running her own business. Sad fact: people don’t take what we do seriously. It sucks.

    Same thing goes for saying “I’m a writer.” Unless you can back that up with pieces published on recognized sites/publications or works published through actual publishing houses, nobody takes you seriously. Submissions to content driven blogs don’t cut it, as people know you don’t get paid much or anything to write for those sites.

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  16. Vox Says:

    Here are a few places I have met 40 something single men in NYC. I ALWAYS end up chatting with men, even if nothing comes of it.

    Nice steakhouses on off nights, and NOT in the wall street area. Eat at the bar.
    Sports bars on a lazy Sunday afternoon, especially once fall sports kick in.
    Cycling groups. Those are 75% men, almost all are 35-50. Make sure you look good in spandex.

    I hate to say it but it’s the truth: if you are fat, you are going to have a much worse time. An extra 20 pounds looks cute on a 22 year old, but looks dumpy when you are 40+. Online, I used to have nice head shots o myself and I got nowhere. This year I switched to 3 blatant full-body shots (clothed, no cleavage) and one head shot, and voila, lots of attention. so be sure to pander to your audience when you are selecting pics.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “An extra 20 pounds looks cute on a 22 year old” No, it doesn’t; we’re just willing to tolerate it because she’s 22. And, if she doesn’t lose it by 30 (or if she gains any more, even after having kids), she’s going to get traded in for a younger, thinner model if the guy has the looks or money to pull it off.

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  17. B Says:

    A good way to meet people is through partner dancing (no matter how old you are). Try salsa or argentine tango or perhaps swing.

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  18. Charlie Says:

    Decent people are all around you, but if you can’t seem to find them you may need to adjust your picker. Focus less on the “shiny” aspects of people and more on their qualities that make them relationship material.

    In my case women who are coupled will tell me I’m a great catch because I’m smart, respectful, and mature for my age, but women who are single aren’t interested. It seems whatever “chemistry” is is something I’ve always lacked. I can’t grab their attention so I get passed over.

    There’s also the possibility you may need to be more social. I know I have a bad habit of just heading home after work and flaking out. Kinda hard to meet people that way.

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    • grace Says:

      Me too Charlie. I guess Dr. Phil was right, it ain’t gonna happen that way. LOL!

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “women who are coupled will tell me I’m a great catch … but women who are single aren’t interested.” And now you understand why the former are coupled and the latter are still single: one group knows what’s important and the other doesn’t.

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      • Marie Says:

        If married women recommend you, that is a BIG plus in my book! Married women have a better sense of what qualities are necessary for a long term, happy relationship.

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  19. Erine Says:

    I disagree. All of the boyfriends in the last four years (three men to be exact), including the man I am with now, as well as the prospective relationships (several dates or a few weeks of dating) all originated from my wanting to meet someone. Yes, it’s bad to be desparate, but I made myself to go to all the events and social functions, etc. – and although it took me months or something like a year to meet someone “special,” and many meh dates in between, I did meet them, and never by accident, by doing what I wanted to be doing. I am sorry to say but it seems that in the rest of the world (and I’ve travelled and lived in other countries months at a time) it happens naturally – men approach you everywhere, but here, at least in New York – oh it so doesn’t, so I’ve never had a relationship out of doing what I liked – sipping my latte at a coffee shop or browsing a book store, or watching a movie. Men are terrified of approaching women “in the broad daylight” settings, and women give off a vibe of being unapproachable.
    All of the relationships I had originated from the effort I (and them) put into the search. Although I did meet one of my bfriends at work, but I was 22, and since then my idea about what I was looking for has changed and has actually shaped up. I am also still in my 20’s, so it’s easier for me to attract men (I’m guessing, especially that I fall into a “former model who always had a “professional job” job category), but effort and being as proactive as possible seems to have worked for me.

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  20. Jen Says:

    I’d like to know where the decent 45-55 year old men are. I know that’s a narrow range but I’m really not interested in men who are a few years away from retirement or retired. It is a totally different mindset and priorities. I have a good private school job on the upper west side, have traveled extensively, look about 5 years younger than my age, have grown children who do not live at home, can cook, and like to bike. I’m not claiming to be a model but I’m in decent shape. When I was married, my husband was constantly being told how lucky he was. I’ve tried online, speed dating , and various meetup groups. You’d think this would work – but I’m 50, like intelligent conversation – as in I really understand the guys on The Big Bang Theory, and I am 5’8″ which puts me at at least 5’10” if I wear heels. Also I’m a widow of 2 years now – which seems to send most men running for the hills. I’ve learned not to tell men that if I can avoid it.

    I have gone on 5 dates this year that were disasters. Immediately (within the first 15 minutes )they asked or hinted that they’d like to sleep with me before even making decent conversation. I was dressed quite conservatively so I cannot figure that out. No second date happened as I was not into their agenda. This is from guys who were over 60! Another issue: Two of them claimed to be 5’10” but I was taller than they were even wearing flats. It was uncomfortable for both of us. The other two dates I went on seemed like nice guys but one felt that ‘I would not effectively enhance his life’ after having coffee with me for all of 20 minutes and the other just disappeared.

    I know I’m not a perfect specimen but any suggestions?

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    • Angeline Says:

      If you’re meeting these guys online, perhaps your profile needs some tweaking. Your pool of men is limited if you stick to the height thing. Uncomfortable because they misrepresented their height? Acceptable. Because they aren’t what you consider ideal? Unless you’re in super shape, (not just ‘decent’) ditch that requirement. At our age (I’m 53) you can’t hang onto something superficial like height, unless you’re. Willing to also be judged by superficial criteria.

      I’m not sure why being a widow would be such a red flag. In my experience, widows and widowers have fewer problems actually being in a relationship – they were (generally) happily married up until they lost their spouse. There is less of the baggage from being burned by infidelity, etc. That said, in my experience, the couple of widowers I met while dating were still not remotely ‘over’their wives, and it was clear that they saw devoting themselves to someone else as a demotion or rejection of their spouse. Make sure you’re not projecting a sense of this sacred being that no one else would ever be able to measure up to. Have you participated in any loss/grief group counseling? One-on-one therapy can be a life-saver, but one of the things you can get from a group is the reassurance that others have gone through the same thing, and perhaps some practical advice on how and when to bring this issue up with new people.

      Other than those two things, I don’t see how any of the advice given above would not also apply here. People get this idea that their dating situation is so unique and fraught with difficulties, and it generally isn’t. But

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      • Angeline Says:

        Grrrr. Dang tiny phone buttons. Was gonna say, But it does make a grand distraction from what real issues might be there.

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    • grace Says:

      Honestly Jen, the main thing that comes through is a bad attitude. You sound picky, cynical and critical. I realize in today’s world it is easy to feel that way, but no guy wants to spend time with a woman whose personality makes him cringe.

      Focus on projecting warmth, love and happiness even if you don’t feel that way.

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    • Divorced Joe Says:

      Some of us are in Utah.

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  21. Bilwick Says:

    Or: We’re broke. Poverty is about as attractive to most women as a herpes virus.

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  22. Mark Says:

    In all honesty OP, there have been some very thoughtful responses. Moxie hit some of the broader themes and a number of posters added some good thoughts and ideas. Given you live in NYC, I am inclined so say that you are at a better advantage than many women in a simlar position.

    IE you do the volunteer thing, but it almost sounds like you are doing it not because you enjoy it, but with another motivation. If you are going that route, you might consider something that has some meaning for you on a personal or professional level. If nothing else it can be an outlet for the high pressure you face on Wall St.

    Yeap, there are the happy hours. This might not exactly be your cup of tea, and the demographic may not be to your advantage, but hey, it’s something to consider.

    Other outlets. No doubt you can work long hours, but if you think about it, there out to be some activities that you can fit in. Art?…how about gallery openings or an exhibition someplace. Sports?…Tennis, sailing, creative writing or something else where you enjoy the subject with other people who also enjoy the same thing might do trick. You get the idea.

    I would echo the idea that as someone who is 40 +/-, you might have to be a little more creative and aggressive about this. Just make sure you don’t come across as aggressive interpreted as desparate. That could sent some going the other way.

    If you are still at wits end and finding the available pool of men small, you may want to re adjust you sights a little on who it is you consider dateable.

    Best of luck.

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  23. Karen (OP) Says:

    Hi all,

    I want to thank everyone for their comments and suggestions. They were actually very helpful.

    Want to clear up a couple of things… I go to church not to meet anyone, but because I believe in a higher power and want to share that with like-minded people. It helps me deal with the stresses of my job.

    I totally enjoy my volunteer work. It’s working with women who are in a halfway house and trying to readjust to the “outside world”. As Breebree suggested, maybe I do have to volunteer with an organization that has men, like Habitat for Humanity.

    I’m extremely friendly and have talked to men that I see such as when I’m in line at the deli. I do think it’s a matter of being at the right place at the right time. I don’t know any happy hours here, but am willing to go.

    I’m open to who I date and have dated men of many different races and cultures and shapes, and even some that were shorter than me.

    Perhaps I do have to be more aggressive in trying, and after reading all these comments, I definitely will try.

    Thanks again.

    (and if you have any more comments/ suggestions, please feel free to write more)

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “I totally enjoy my volunteer work. It’s working with women who are in a halfway house and trying to readjust to the ‘outside world’.” Eek! If a date told me she worked at a women’s shelter or similar, I’d probably run for the hills. You can’t avoid the effect their stories about how their men mistreated them will have on you. You may not be consciously seeing every guy across the table as a potential wife-beater, but many men will assume you will–and, on a subconscious level, you probably are. Save that for later, when it will make you appreciate already having a good man waiting for you back home–or out breaking your clients’ exes’ kneecaps.

      “As Breebree suggested, maybe I do have to volunteer with an organization that has men, like Habitat for Humanity.” When volunteer work is suggested as a way to meet men, it is implied one should select organizations with significant numbers (hopefully a majority) of men volunteering–not one that will get almost exclusively other women.

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  24. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    How are you going to get the opportunity to “mind the commute” if you’ve rejected the person in the first place before even meeting upon finding out where they live?

    I’ve done the commute, Craig. I’ve done it for work, I’ve done it with dating, I’ve done it with friends. LI, Hoboken, Queens. I get plenty of dates with guys from Manhattan and Brooklyn. That’s the point I was trying to make to Ruffy. People who live in Manhattan don’t HAVE to date outside Manhattan or Brooklyn. When I was dating someone from Stamford, CT, he drove in to the city. When I was dating someone in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, he worked here, we’d meet here and he’d stay at my place. There’s no reason for anybody in Manhattan or Brooklyn to hike out to Jersey or Hoboken or Long Island. Congrats that you found a girl born and raised in Queens who was so understanding that she didn’t mind the commute. Of course she didn’t mind it, she was probably already doing it for work or social reasons. Do you really think that if she lived in Manhattan she’d have been as eager to meet you? Really? You don’t think she’d have had double the options if she lived in Manhattan? You’re deluding yourself.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Also, Craig, please check your email. You’re going to get a little chuckle :)

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    • Craig Says:

      There’s no reason for anybody in Manhattan or Brooklyn to hike out to Jersey or Hoboken or Long Island. Congrats that you found a girl born and raised in Queens who was so understanding that she didn’t mind the commute. Of course she didn’t mind it, she was probably already doing it for work or social reasons. Do you really think that if she lived in Manhattan she’d have been as eager to meet you? Really? You don’t think she’d have had double the options if she lived in Manhattan? You’re deluding yourself. – Moxie

      There’s also no reason for someone who enjoys vanilla ice cream to try butter pecan. But you do it because variety is the spice of life and you want to explore what’s out there. There’s an endless amount of great single people in Manhattan – but if I can do even better elsewhere, I’ll do it. As for my lady, whe was born and raised in Manhattan. She took herself and all of her double options and moved to Queens because she was tired of the Manhattan scene. And after years of failing miserably in the Manhattan singles scene, she found herself in Queens with Jersey Boy in a bridge and tunnel happy ending. The point being, there’s nothing wrong with preferring people in Manhattan, but you have to keep an open mind because you never know. Your email did ineed give me a chuckle. I love the irony.

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    • Jade Says:

      People who live in Manhattan don’t HAVE to date outside Manhattan or Brooklyn.

      If people in Manhattan have so many options, why haven’t you found anyone after all your years in Manhattan and why do letters like the OPs even exist?

      You might get 1 million search hits on Match.com, or have 1 million classes/activities/churches/dating events on this little island but if the guy you’ve been looking for lives 5 miles away you are never going to meet him unless you change your attitude.

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      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        Like I said, I’ve dated guys outside of Manhattan and Brooklyn. I’ve dated guys in Queens who rode their bikes to my apartment. I’ve dated guys who live in Jersey who drove in to the city. I’m not against trying it. It’s not ideal, but I do it. /am doing it. The point I was making to Ruffy is that the overall mentality of many people who live here is that they’d prefer someone local. Everybody assumes it’s some sort of elitist mindset. It’s more about time and energy.

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        • Jade Says:

          I think the people who actually want to find someone are willing to put in the time and energy it takes to do so.

          If you’re not willing, that’s your issue, and if many other people in the boroughs aren’t willing, that’s their issue: but you and those other people, who aren’t willing to put in the time and effort, aren’t good prospects anyway for that very reason.

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        • Jade Says:

          Also, these guys were riding their bikes or driving to you in your neighborhood, so you can’t hold it up as a profound example of your openmindedness for dating people in Jersey, Queens, Brooklyn or anywhere else while also complaining about travelling 40 blocks in an earlier comment.

          The fact is that everyone would love to meet someone local, but you’re deluding yourself if you think your attitude to location is working, and it’s not fair for you to project that prejudice onto the OP’s situation because if he’s willing to make the effort, and he meets someone likeminded, it won’t matter if they live 5 or 50 miles away, they’ll make it work.

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          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            Yes. That was their choice. I didn’t demand it. They worked here. We went out here. I wouldn’t date someone without the intention of ever going to them. They just preferred Manhattan. Are they close minded, too, for not dating someone in their neighborhood? Why aren’t they dating someone in Queens or Staten Island?

            I’ve already said numerous times I’m plenty open to it, with the exception of Jersey because it’s just too far for me based on where I live. I just meet more men here in Manhattan or who live in Brooklyn.

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  25. Lele Says:

    > PLEASE READ COMMENT GUIDELINES BEFORE POSTING

    – [Clicks]
    – “Page not found”
    – Oh, well!

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