Should He Tell Her The Real Reason He’s Not Interested?

Name: Mark
State: New York
Age: 37
Comment: Went out with a woman that I met online. She shows up at the restaurant where we agreed to meet and was much heavier than she was in her photos. I made the best of it, had a couple drinks, paid the tab and said goodbye. She had a beautiful face and was smart and interesting, but not for me. I think I could have gotten past the extra weight if she had posted more recent photos. She sent me an email the next day saying she had a fun time and hoped we could see each other again. I told her that it was nice to meet her but that I didn’t think we were a match. She responded and said she was confused and asked why I didn’t think we were a match. Normally I’d tell the woman what I’ve told other women and what they have told me – I didn’t feel a spark. In this case I wonder if I should be honest and tell her why. What do you think?

Well, first of all, I’m going to call you on your “I think I could get past her weight if she hadn’t lied” statement. Bottom line, if you had been attracted to her, the fact that she didn’t look like her photos wouldn’t have mattered. You’re trying to avoid people calling you out for “being shallow” by saying what a beautiful face she had.

You just don’t want to seem weightist. Which I understand. Personally, I don’t think you’re in the wrong for not being attracted enough to her. You like what you like. Just don’t try to dress it up. That makes you sound condescending and disingenuous. Moving on…

Here’s the thing about being overweight, and I’m speaking from experience here…when I was really overweight, I had no idea how overweight I was. I believed I looked the same as I had a few years before. It’s a combination of denial and illusion that keeps us in the dark. So this woman may not have intentionally mislead you. She might really believe she looks exactly like those photos. That’s why it’s always wise to select a few photos and then show them to friends – good friends, honest friends – and ask them to tell you if they accurately reflect how you look now.

Now, if she did know the pics were inaccurate…she did it because she wanted a chance. She just wanted a chance. That’s it. There was no malicious intent involved here.

I’m offering you these perspectives because I think you should tell her why you weren’t attracted to her. But I want the response to come from a place of empathy and compassion, not resentment.

We’ve all heard the “no chemistry” excuse. Like DMN has said, this is a matter of diplomacy. Most of us KNOW that there’s more to the story. We just don’t push the issue because it’s inappropriate and possibly going to be uncomfortable for us. But if someone is going to ask for the “real” reason..give it to them. Just don’t do it to hurt them. Do it to help them.

Several months back, when I was on OKC, I had a few dates with a guy. He was nice, sweet, etc. One night he was over and it was the “do or die” night. Third date, just a few make out sessions. Things progressed….he wanted to move things to bed. I said no. He asked why. And I told him.It’s not something a lot of men like to hear. But I told him. We spent the next couple hours polishing off wine and talking about it. We’re now good friends. He’s met someone. She’s awesome. Everybody is happy.  I didn’t tell him to shame him. I told him because he wanted to know. I wasn’t the first. Now he was faced with the real possibility that how I and another woman had perceived him was how many other women had perceived him. He made some adjustments. He found who he was looking for.

I think I mentioned this before, but having a doctor read to me out loud my actual weight of 190 pounds was enough for me to say enough. I could ignore the creaky joints and tight clothes. I could not ignore the numbers on a scale. When I started having issues with my joints, and did a little family history research and found out that rheumatoid arthritis ran in my family, I had no choice but to lose weight. Working out for me isn’t just about staying a certain size. I have to do it in order to stay active. (I have this adorable “if I don’t get an official diagnosis then it isn’t real” mentality where I can some how ward off illnesses with my mind. I know. No lectures, please. When it comes to the family history of breast cancer I’m far more vigilant. )

Back to the OP.

Here’s why she’s asking you for a specific reason – she KNOWS what the reason is. It’s almost like she wants somebody to beat her over the head with the truth so she can either validate her negative belief system i.e. “men are shallow” OR she wants the push to lose weight but can’t give it to herself.

Now, how she takes the news isn’t your responsibility. if you know that you were coming from a genuine place when you gave her an answer, and you know you weren’t trying to hurt her, then her reaction is about her. Not you.

Tell her. Just be kind. It could change her whole dating experience. That is, if she’s ready – really ready – to hear it. Some times people have to hit rock bottom before they realize it’s time to make a change.

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164 Responses to “Should He Tell Her The Real Reason He’s Not Interested?”

  1. Christina Says:

    Yup, I think you should tell her too. Chances are, you’re not the first guy to send her on her way, and your honest – but compassionate- answer might be what she needs to push her in a healthy direction. Or at least make her realize that she’s heavier than she thinks.

    I don’t think that most people set out to deceive when they post old or misleading pics on a dating website. What Moxie says is true- many of us are delusional about how we really look. I know that I feel exactly the same as I did in 1995, and when I look at a picture of myself from then, I feel like I still look exactly the same. Deep down, I know I don’t really. It’s hard to be objective about ourselves. Same with the weight. I have about 40 pounds on my high school weight, but I don’t feel any fatter, at least not most of the time. :-) Thanks to vanity sizing, I’m still the same size, too!

    That’s why recent, full-body pics are a must for online dating.

    As long as you’re kind about it, it won’t kill her to get a wake-up call. If she reacts badly and tries to turn it around on you being superficial, that’s her issue, not yours.

    • Mike Says:

      She put a picture of her looking smaller than she is because she wanted to decieve guys into calling her. Lets cut the crap here. She is big, she knows being big is a turn off to guys, so she put a smaller picture on her post.

  2. Ellie Says:

    I’m pretty sure she knows she’s fat, I don’t know where this conception that fat people don’t know they’re fat comes from. She’s not going to run off and lose weight just because some dick on the Internet told her so. All she’s going to do is feel angry and upset about that dick on the Internet. Save yourselves both the trouble, and just give her the same line you give everyone. And, even if she never loses a pound, there is someone else out there who will love her for exactly the weight she is.

    I used to be a lot thinner, and obsessed with dieting. And now I’m the fattest I’ve ever been, in the best relationship I’ve ever been in, with the most attractive, intelligent, educated and successful guy I’ve ever been with. If you told me that’s how things would work out a decade ago, I’d have laughed. Just let her be, maybe she’ll lose some weight, maybe she won’t, but she doesn’t need some dick she went on one date with to save her.

    • D Says:

      Except that she’s pushing for a reason. And wait, he’s a dick? Sounds to me like he’s being very sensitive in this situation.

      Several years ago I reconnected with a girl I liked in college. We talked by phone, exchanged email etc and shortly thereafter met up in NY. She had put on a lot of weight and I was no longer attracted to her. It annoyed me that she hadn’t hinted of any changes since college (I told her over the phone that I had put on 30 lbs), but I bothered me even more that I was no longer attracted to her. I felt really shallow.

      When I decided not to pursue the relationship, she pressed me hard as to why, so I told her the truth. She was pissed and we haven’t talked since.

      • Ellie Says:

        She’s pushing because he acted like a good time and stayed for a few drinks. I’d be confused to. I’m
        Not saying he should have run out at the sight of her, but there was no need to play that game.

        • dimplz Says:

          I think you’re being unfair to the OP. Just because you aren’t interested doesn’t mean you can’t make the best of the situation. He could still have a good time. If he’d have bailed on her, he would have been a dick too. But there’s nothing wrong with her misrepresenting herself? It’s times like these that make me embarrassed to be a woman.

        • Erine Says:

          “She’s pushing because he acted like a good time and stayed for a few drinks. I’d be confused to. I’m
          Not saying he should have run out at the sight of her, but there was no need to play that game.”

          Was he supposed to tell her she is fat and he was leaving? What planet do you live on, Ellie?
          Or maybe he was supposed to tell her: “Well, since I’m not attracted to you, pay the tab, and otta here” – so she would get the well-articulated hint?
          Sometimes I feel that I understand men more (at this point) than I do women. It’s happened to me many-many times before that I went out with men, laughed, talked and then rejected any other offer to go on another date. I could never tell a guy on a date that I was leaving because I “wasn’t feeling it” or tell him later. The fade, and in my case, I always get back to them and say “no, thanks” versus just ignoring them is the most common and natural way to handle such situations. I never even have the nerve to say: “no, I am not interested” when a guy asks to go out again at the end of the date.

    • Jaclyn Says:

      He would have been a dick if he initially told her the real reason why he wasn’t interested. Instead, he politely declined her advances. She didn’t accept the polite white lie and is asking for the truth. So it is within his rights to now tell her the truth if he thinks it is best.

      She posted misleading photos in the hope of getting more dates and having a chance at a relationship. The consequence of that decision is that she is going to have a very high rejection rate of men who go out on first dates with her and choose not to continue the relationship. If she doesn’t realize that her photos are misleading, then she may be confused at the constant rejection and is trying to figure it out. If she knew she was posting misleading photos, and is not politely accepting her date’s disinterest, then there is something seriously wrong with her.

    • Erine Says:

      Wow, really? Well, maybe you lucked out big time or maybe you’ve made it up or your bf not all that amazing as you made him look – but 99.9% of “attractive, successful men” are not going to even look in a direction of a woman “at her heaviest” same as I, a young, attractive woman (so I’ve been told), am not going to look at a man who is a clerk at a store and is not attractive/moderately attractive!
      What a BS!
      I mean, I am a woman but I flat our reject the feminist idea that men who are visial (hm, all men) are “shallow” just because they like a woman who is fit and attractive. An unattractive man is going to be much-much more flexible, but if a man is attractive and successful – he naturally have more women looking at him and potenitally interested in him – so why on earth would he settle on someone who he has to “settle” for?
      ANd why is the guy a DICK? For being a man? Ever heard of evolution and why men are built (visual) the way they are? Then all women who want a guy 5.9 and up and a paycheck of $100.000 (a year) and up is a senseless

    • VJ Says:

      I don’t know, I always thought from the evidence of experience that happy women were fat women. When they’re in a good relationship/marriage they (and hubbys too) tend to gain weight. It happens to nearly every woman I know who’s in a satisfying, decent relationship. They tend to put on the pounds, no matter the age too. And yes, this is sort of a universal general trend. The biggest bellied guys out there? We’re already married! It’s a constant battle to find the time to exercise, and we’ve got less ‘incentive’ much of the time, other than health issues & complaints. This is why the entire nation is over topping the scales too. So Ellie’s observation (& others) is not uncommon. Good matches can be found, even for the fat among us. Cheers, ‘VJ’

  3. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    She’s not going to run off and lose weight just because some dick on the Internet told her so. All she’s going to do is feel angry and upset about that dick on the Internet. Save yourselves both the trouble, and just give her the same line you give everyone. And, even if she never loses a pound, there is someone else out there who will love her for exactly the weight she is.

    The issue isn’t that there aren’t men out there that won’t accept her at her current weight. I’m sure there are.

    She probably just doesn’t want them. So there’s a good chance she’s as much of a “dick” as he is.

    • dina Says:

      i agree. most people who are overweight insist on dating thinner people. it’s like they have to prove to themselves and everyone else that just because they are overweight doesn’t mean they have to settle for overweight and can get a thinner person. i find some overweight people to have the biggest chip on their shoulder. they resent being overweight and resent thinner people. ever notice when an overweight person wants to pass by you and the space is narrow they expect YOU TO MOVE OVER — as if you are in the way. Get real FAT people. YOU are in your own way… and everyone else’s.

      • Ellie Says:

        I’ll ignore your generalizations about all fat people, because they’re ridiculous.

        But, here’s a question: if a fat person wants to pass by you, is it unreasonable to expect you to allow them to pass? Should they stay behind you for all eternity? Or just will themselves to take up a smaller amount of space, so they may pass without inconveniencing you?

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Oh. Then should we ignore your generalizations about men? Or is generalizing only appropriate when you do it? In your mind, a guy is a “dick” for not being attracted to an overweight woman. That’s a generalization, isn’t it?

          She’s pushing because he acted like a good time and stayed for a few drinks. I’d be confused to. I’m Not saying he should have run out at the sight of her, but there was no need to play that game.

          Play what game? The “I’m a polite person enjoying a conversation with someone that I don’t happen to be attracted to” game? What, in your opinion, would have have been the appropriate course of action? Down his drink and leave? No matter how he handled it, he’d be perceived as the bad guy.

          As for Dina’s comment…

          I had unapproved it. Then I wanted to edit it. I;m not comfortable doing that. I think it was unnecessarily harsh. So let’s try to keep these comments from becoming some grudge match. Stay focused on the topic and no nastiness please.

          • Ellie Says:

            I’m not calling him a dick for not liking her because she’s fat, I think he’d be a dick to tell her that. He’d be a dick because telling her she’s fat would do no one any good, and, in fact, will only do her harm. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not being attracted to fat people, I think what is wrong is assuming all people feel that way and making sweeping generalizations. I think most people would be insulted by being called fat, and so I think he’d be a dick to
            insult her. You wouldn’t be encouraging him to tell her she was ugly or her nose was too big, would you? Moreover, we have no idea how large this woman actually is. I’m willing to bet we’re not talking about a 350 pound woman. She may be 20 pounds overweight, and plenty of other men might not consider her fat at all.

            I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a single drink and then getting on your way. I’ve done it and I’ve had it done to me. If you stay for a couple hours and have a good conversation, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the other person to think you’re interested and then be confused when you turn around the next day and say you’re not interested.

          • freedom Says:

            I am curious to know more about the situation when you talked to your male date about why you weren’t interested in going to bed with him. What was the dealbreaker for you? And what were the changes he made that then helped him with his next relationship?

      • grace Says:

        OMG fact people not wanting to date other fat people is so true. I have a friend who is fat enough to qualify for weight loss surgery. When pressed about her dating preferences she said, ” I don’t want no fat man. A stomach is okay, but no fat men.” This is someone who is SLOPPY fat i.e. big stomach, huge tits that practically flop around. Even her darn feet are big.

        I’ve put on some pounds myself about 25 (I am 5’7 size 14 now). I thought about putting an ad on a site like overweight date etc but can’t bring myself to do it. I do not want some guys gigantic stomach rubbing against my belly. I know that sounds shallow, but I’m on a diet instead. LOL!!

    • Ellie Says:

      You’re operating under the very unfair assumption that all people who are attracted to fat people are undesirable. That’s just not true. Certainly no more true than saying any man who is attracted to a woman over 40 must be undesirable.

      • Lyle Says:

        Many who are attracted to very overweight people or much older women/men are fetishists of some sort. They are attracted to those people specifically because they are older/overweight, not in spite of it.

        • Ellie Says:

          All men with a fat or older woman are fetishists? Are all men who are attracted to blondes fetishists? What world do you live in where personal preference does not exist. My boyfriend’s ex was thin; I’m not. What does that make him?

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            First of all, he didn’t say all. He said “many.”

            Second of all…YES, men who strictly date blondes, brunettes, red heads, older women, older men, younger women, younger men or overweight people are generally fetishists.

            • Ellie Says:

              So where is the line between fetish and preference?

              • bill Says:

                why is it bad dating someone who has a fetish for you? seriously this sounds retarded but people who wont want to date someone who really likes one thing about you and want to a relationship work and will treat you right. That is bad?

                A lot of women have a fetish for tall dark handsome man. A lot of men have a fetish for petite thin women.

                • Paula Says:

                  It’s bad to date someone who has a fetish for you if they can not see past the fetish to appreciate any other qualities about you. And for fat fetishists, it often comes with codependent and very unhealthy behavior such as being a “feeder,” or encouraging “gaining” where you derive sexual pleasure from feeding or causing a person to gain weight.

                  You’re better served by being with someone who has a preference for your body type (or any other quality about you) that has not reached the level of a fetish.

        • Paula Says:

          But the ones who fall into the fetishist category are the ones who like people who are hundreds of pounds overweight, not the people who put on a few pounds in the past several years. Those people tend to have been obese all of their lives, and have never been in the category that the average person finds attractive. The guy that prefers curvy to beanpole or a C/D cup to an A/B cup or a JLo or Beyonce booty or 25-50 extra pounds to average or below weight women (and there are a lot of them out there) is not a fetishist. One who likes 350/400/500 pound women because of their weight (not because they love the person inside and have the ability to be attracted regardless of the weight) might be.

      • Trouble Says:

        Apparently, the men who are attracted to the woman from the OP aren’t desirable to her, or else she would be dating one of them, and not pursuing a man who isn’t interested in her. Have you thought about her responsibility to find someone who wants to be with her, as she is, rather than pursuing the men that she wants to be with regardless of their interest in her?

        • Paula Says:

          They met online, and it’s one date. You’ve talked about going on a bunch of dates before you find the right person, and for all we know, she’s doing the same — not dating someone because she hasn’t felt the one for whom her earth moves, but meeting some perfectly nice guys along the way. I don’t think, based upon what Mark said, that we have enough to conclude she has failed in any kind of responsibility other than navigating the online waters without enough success yet to stop.

          She would be better served by presenting a current picture, which would make it more difficult for guys like Mark to claim they were deceived. Guys might then reject her for other reasons, and she them, but at least they’ll have a sense upfront of whether they might feel an attraction to her.

          • bill Says:

            Realistically men are pretty simple. We only care about two things and rationalize everything around it. 1) How hot are you to us (the hottest girl we can get) 2) how you treat us

      • Angeline Says:

        You brought up the tangent that ‘even though’ you’re overweight, you have a successful, attractive guy. I think you’re the one feeling like you’re getting away with something. The point is, the OP is not being a dick if he’s not attracted to someone who’s overweight. And he’s not a dick if she doesn’t accept the diplomatic approach and insists on the truth. If the truth is unpleasant, he’s certainly not the one who put her there.

        I am curious now if the OP looks like his pics, and is fit or overweight himself. He still gets to like what he likes, but maybe that’s why she’s aggressively seeking an answer. In which case he should duck and run.

        • Ellie Says:

          I don’t feel like I’m getting away with anything–I think I have exactly what I deserve. But the vast majority of people here seem to think it’s not possible. The “even though” was for them, not me.

  4. Chych53 Says:

    I would love a guy telling me the truth! Especially if it is a physical thing or an age thing. I’m 58 and look a lot younger. The guys that ask me out are usually 48-64. Look at it this way, dont be mean just truthful. In my case say
    ” wow! You look so much younger then I thought. Thanks for telling me but I really prefer someone a few years younger ” Most guys just disappear or decide it’s okay to be FWB without telling me. Not a good idea. I can usually spot it.

  5. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    Here’s the solution. The OP should tell her that he prefers really overweight women. That, while she is clearly heavy, she is not nearly fat enough to satisfy him. Thus her self-esteem is preserved while communicating the necessary information.

    I am on the side of not telling her for two reasons. First, we don’t know whether Mark’s perception is accurate. He may be one of those fat people that prefers thin women. He may be exceedingly unattractive. He may be a hipocrate. So, even though she asked for it, if it were me, I’d be too worried about my own critical flaws to be dwelling on someone else’s.

    Second, after one date, you don’t have enough information about a person to gauge how they might react or whether you’d be helping or hurting. The lack of information demands the most conservative approach, which is to tell her “no chemistry” or “I am too busy to date” and be on your way.

  6. Andrew Says:

    Been there. Done that compassionate truth thing. Not very good results. Women still see it as a judgement on my part, and get pissed off. The best that works, is self deprecating truth. And it works beacause, me owning my feelings, comes through better than me making a judgement.

    In a situation like this, I would say. You have a pretty face and an amazing personality, and I should be jumping hoops to be with you. I have this thing about weight, though. We, guys can be real fools about that. I know I’m being stupid and shallow. I guess I need to work on that. And, it really won’t be fair to you knowing I have these stupid hangups.

  7. Paula Says:

    I think you should tell her…that you feel deceived that her pictures are not recent and don’t look like her now.

    People who are overweight or obese don’t need to be beat over the head with it — they know. Perhaps Moxie’s experience is different because she wasn’t always overweight, but if you’ve been overweight or obese for any length of time, you’ve had dating rejection experiences and horrible clothes shopping experiences and frustrating exercise experiences and all kinds of things in your life that reinforce that you weigh too much. So chances are, you’re not pointing something out to her that she doesn’t know, and are just becoming someone in a long line of people who have hurt her.

    And there’s a whole lot of evidence that one’s ability to successfully take off weight is about 80% genetic, and only 20% eating the right foods, and almost nothing related to physical activity. So she may or may not be able to ever get to the point where you would find her attractive. But, if she has a beautiful face and is smart and interesting, there is someone else out there for her — one who cares about those qualities more, is attracted to women of a larger size, or for whom the whole package just works.

    So if you’re honest that it might have worked had you not felt deceived, then tell her about that. That gets her farther along the road to acceptance of herself — the way she is right now — than another “OMG, you’re a fattie!” And if you’re not being honest with yourself about that, why start being “honest” (not really) with her?

    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      While I agree with Paula that these circumstances call for some deception on Mark’s part, the problem with the lie suggested by Paula is that it begs the further question – why she doesn’t look like her pictures. So, he will be in the same quandry. Otherwise, I agree with Paula’s approach.

      • Paula Says:

        The lie was not suggested by Paula, it was suggested by Mark. And I only suggested he use it if it wasn’t a lie. Only he knows what’s in his head, although as I stated elsewhere, I think it was a lie, which was why I was calling him on it.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      And there’s a whole lot of evidence that one’s ability to successfully take off weight is about 80% genetic, and only 20% eating the right foods, and almost nothing related to physical activity.

      There’s also a “whole lot of evidence” that weight loss is largely related to physical activity. But hey, your version is easier to swallow, isn’t it? In your version, the success rate is out of their control because they’re “genetically predisposed” to be overweight.So it’s not their fault. That’s like saying someone with a history of addiction should just drink and do drugs anyway, because the addiction is inevitable.

      My family, both sides, is genetically predisposed to a lot of things, including obesity. yet I managed to take off…and keep off…30-40 pounds by changing my diet and working out. When I don’t work out, I gain weight. When I do, I lose it. I guess I must be in that 20%. Lucky me. So far I’ve managed to escape addiction, cancer, and obesity. Was I lucky? Did I dodge a bunch of bullets? Or did I just make conscious choices so far? Talk about reckless advice.

      But, if she has a beautiful face and is smart and interesting, there is someone else out there for her — one who cares about those qualities more, is attracted to women of a larger size, or for whom the whole package just works.

      Well…then why hasn’t she met that guy? If these two met online then I have no doubt she was contacted by plenty of overweight or out of shape men. So wouldn’t that increase her chances?

      So if you’re honest that it might have worked had you not felt deceived, then tell her about that.
      Which is really just a roundabout way of saying she’s overweight. By going that route, he’s probably only going to frustrate her more because she’ll know what he’s really saying and not saying it. The people who push for the “truth” already know the answer. They just want to hear it. By avoiding the real reason, he’s just making the situation more difficult.

      The reason he wasn’t attracted to her wasn’t because she lied. It was because she was overweight.

      • Paula Says:

        Moxie, I’ve lost 40 pounds and kept it off and engage in about 15-20 hours of intense physical activity a week (we’re not talking a treadmill here…) — more than almost anyone I know. But read Gary Taubes, and all the reputable scientists whose studies he quotes, and you’ll find out, if you care to digest the science, that 1) my low-carb diet was much more responsible for that than my physical activity; 2) most people engaged in intense physical activity tend to eat more, and cannot maintain the exercise intensity with a significant calorie deficit for the long haul; and 3) exercise is good for all kinds of reasons — mood control, flexibility, bone strength, hormonal regulation, etc., but not good for weight loss. Eat right and exercise for your health, but not to satisfy a man, or even a bunch of them.

        >>>Why hasn’t she met that guy?

        Maybe she has, and he rejected her for other reasons, or she rejected him for other reasons. You’ve talked about all the reasons why online dating doesn’t work, and why you’ve given up on it — it’s not just the fat girls having trouble.

        The reason he wasn’t attracted to her wasn’t because she lied. It was because she was overweight.
        Yes, he lied to himself and to you, and then tried to make it about her lying. That’s why I said that you don’t suddenly get some kind of medal for being “honest.” If he wanted to say anything to her at all, he should say “I’m not attracted to you.” That’s truthful, could be for any number of reasons, and she’d be a fool (or even more delusional than some seem to think she is) for continuing to press him after that.

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Moxie, I’ve lost 40 pounds and kept it off and engage in about 15-20 hours of intense physical activity a week (we’re not talking a treadmill here…)

          I don’t buy that. 2-3 hours a day, every day? Nope. Not with your commenting history here. No way is that even possible. Unless you’re willing to post photos of what you look like now, this is just talk. I don’t believe for one second that you have that kind of discipline.

          Also…trainer sessions are not “intense workouts” unless they’re taking you on a 10+ mile run every session. I see people with their trainers in the gym all the time, and they spend half the time chatting away.

          1) my low-carb diet was much more responsible for that than my physical activity;

          Oh, so you fall in to that 20% too? How fortuitous. Weird , then, that you’d advise the OP against telling the woman the true reason he wasn’t attracted to her by implying there wasn’t much she could do about it. I mean, since you yourself defied the odds.

          most people engaged in intense physical activity tend to eat more, and cannot maintain the exercise intensity with a significant calorie deficit for the long haul;

          Oh? Then how do you do it? I’m genuinely curious what your diet is like, Paula, what with all this intense activity you do. Given your height and weight, you’d have to be taking in at least 2000-2500 calories per day just to function. So tell us…what;s your diet like?

          • Paula Says:

            I’m a member of a local athletic league, in a full-contact sport with competitive tryouts, a 12-week introductory training, skills assessments, and minimum practice requirements. We have three-hour long practices either two or three times a week, and since I joined the league last month, I have had a perfect attendance record. I practice on my own an additional 1-2 times a week, since I am new, an additional 2 hours each session. I do a trainer-supervised workout for 45 minutes to an hour an additional 1-2 times a week, based upon resistance and interval training principles, where you alternate between intense activity and what is called “active recovery,” (you might call it chatting if you don’t realize that it’s a break between exercises for muscles to recover, or if you think a 10-mile run is doing your body much good).

            When I follow Atkins induction, I take off weight at an unbelievable rate: I lost 65 pounds in 5 months in 2003, regained 40 of it going through my divorce, and then lost that 40 in 2009. I lost 25 before I started working with a trainer, gained 10 when I first started working with the trainer because of muscle weight and adjusting my diet to account for activity, and then lost that 10 + another 15 for 40 total. To be at an ideal weight, I should lose 40 more, but there are advantages to carrying some additional weight in my sport, so right now I’m focused on getting to the skill and energy level I need to be at.

            All that is verifiable, although I would never let you enough into my business for you to do that. Besides, it always upsets you when I talk about my personal stuff, so what’s up with interrogating me about it? And you know you can see pictures of me anytime you want, since you’ve dug up so much about my personal life already. But pictures don’t really prove anything, as the OP knows all too well.

            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              I’m interrogating you are at the very least deluding yourself in yet another area of your life. ********* practice is your “intense 3 hour workout?” Please. Like half of that time isn’t spent sitting down or stationary. Given the frequency of your comments on here, you must have an iPad or iPhone attached to your hip. You must be taking time out of these oh so intense “workouts” and “trainer sessions” to type.

              To be at an ideal weight, I should lose 40 more, but there are advantages to carrying some additional weight in my sport,

              So you’re keeping on an extra 40 pounds for this sport for which you do not get paid? Okay. How reasonable.

              Pictures, Paula. Pictures. Pictures prove everything.

              • Paula Says:

                Moxie — Please see your in-box; I’ve asked you to remove this comment.

                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  I’ll edit it. But I;m not deleting it.

                  Hey…remember when you wrote that comment a few weeks ago about something I posted on my private blog when I had it? Something I didn’t post here? Remember how you thought that was okay? Guess what? It wasn’t. So the next time you pull that shit, I’ll be HAPPY to pay you back in kind.

                  • Paula Says:

                    You have the capacity to edit or remove anything you think is unacceptable, and you don’t even have to ask me. I don’t.

                    I have no idea what information you want to keep private today, but the next time something happens with somebody you’re dating, you’ll include in your response or Behind the Blog post.

                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      And yet I haven’t mentioned anything about the guy I’m dating on here. Not once. And it’s been awhile. I know this is hard for you to wrap your brain around, Paula, but some people actually walk the walk and don’t just talk it. And they post photos to back it all up.

                    • Paula Says:

                      Stop baiting me, Moxie. I’m not one of your online profile clients; nor have I asked for your advice, so it’s clear this is some kind of malicious “payback” as you referenced above.

                      Feel free if you want to post whatever photos you want of yourself in whatever state of dress you choose, but you’re not going to bait me into doing it. My trainer and the league will be posting photos of me soon enough, and since you have so much stored away about me (and apparently nothing better to do), you’ll be able to find them anyway without my facilitating your compulsive need to attack and/or call a liar everyone who disagrees with you.

              • Paula Says:

                Moxie doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Now that you know what my sport is (which I had not chosen to reveal once Moxie said that she and her friends know who I am) you can talk to anyone who’s practicing that sport if you want to find out how physically demanding it is in a certified competitive league. It’s a sport where there’s no sitting down at all, and where practices go for over 2 hours with only an occasional 30-second break to catch your breath, and a 1-hour prepractice with just a 10-minute break for putting on your gear.

                But it’s also a sport in which there are some pretty large women in amazing physical shape and with great physical dexterity (just like football is for men). There are some guys who think it’s pretty cool. I’m doing it for me, though, and not for them.

                • Vox Says:

                  Roller derby was a screamingly obvious choice, one I figured out months ago… because you never shut up about it. The number of sports featuring fat chicks moving at semi-fast speeds is minuscule. It seems you were begging someone to mention it, and today you got your wish.

                  • Vox Says:

                    Sorry but… “the point” isn’t anything I’m interested in. I just had a little bit of passing commentary, that’s all. If I felt a website host were being overly hostile towards me or that they were prying into my personal life, I would just log off and never return. I just come here for a little entertainment break here and there. If I ever feel I’m not being entertained for any reason -which of course will happen eventually as tastes do change – I’ll leave.

                  • Paula Says:

                    I’m not attacking you at all.

                    >>>I don’t believe for one second that you have that kind of discipline.

                    >>>you are at the very least deluding yourself in yet another area of your life.

                    >>>So the next time you pull that shit, I’ll be HAPPY to pay you back in kind.

                    >>>You found yourself in those situations because you had no impulse control and chose poorly.

                    >>>That’s what delusional people tell themselves to make themselves feel more important.

                    >>>You can’t help but victimize yourself because you’re incapable of taking responsibility for anything.

                    >>>Because you’re all talk.

                    >>>This is another way you try to shirk responsibility.

                    >>>You need to believe that all of this is because we “care” about you or are fascinated by you in some way.

                    >>>They’re usually liars. People trying to be someone they aren’t, creating and locking themselves in to a persona that doesn’t exist. One that they created to escape the real them, the person they hate.

                    This is one day’s worth. One post’s worth. No, you’re not attacking me at all.

                  • Paula Says:

                    >>>People were curious to see what you looked like because you talked endlessly about yourself and allll the sex you were having.

                    What, now only people of a certain attractiveness level get to have sex?

                    I follow you on Twitter because it had notifications of your new blog posts, and I’m pretty sure you followed me at one point and sent me a DM. I followed you on Facebook because you required it to get access to the private blog, which for a time was the only place where there was much happening, either in terms of posts or comments.

                    I have given out many fewer comments about my life since you told me people know who I am. In fact, I don’t think I’ve revealed anything identifying since that point. But it doesn’t really matter, does it, since you’ll find some justification to keep bringing up stuff anyway.

                    So go fetch your own pictures: you’ll see some where I’m 40 pounds heavier, and some where I’m 40 pounds lighter, but still too heavy. If that’s what it takes to feel smug and superior, go right ahead.

          • Jesse Says:

            Not to take sides, but I can speak of my experience with weight loss. I have always been overweight and my parents were overweight. I became a vegitarian and gained 50 lbs from over-doing it with pasta! I tried execizing, running six days and 40 miles a week, and all that exercize did for my weight was make me hungrier and give me license to eat. I found that I had to run over 50 miles a week to balance the additional calories I was eating because of the intense exercize.

            I noticed that when I stopped exercizing for a while, I lost weight. After further examining what was wrong with my weight control, I came to realize that the old adage from my childhood “Starch makes you fat” was true. Now by eliminating most starch from my diet and working out only 30 minutes a day, I’ve lost most of my weight and am a much more comfortable weight. I think if I gave up beer I’d lose the rest of it!

      • Paula Says:

        >>>That’s like saying someone with a history of addiction should just drink and do drugs anyway, because the addiction is inevitable.

        Um, no it’s not. One does not have to drink or do drugs to survive, so treating addiction through complete abstinence is a widely accepted treatment. However, we all have to eat to survive, so complete abstinence is not an option.

        While some obese people have a food addiction, triggered by certain foods for which abstinence is advised, others have a broken or damaged endocrine system. Others have tried every weight loss philosophy out there, and have not succeeded under the same conditions under which some people have succeeded, often because they have been given advice that flat out ignores the science out there, or because the multi-billion dollar weight loss industry wants to keep them fat yet still believing in their expensive solution.

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “treating addiction through complete abstinence is a widely accepted treatment.” And, in the vast majority of cases, it’s a complete waste of time and money. For instance, AA itself admits to a 97% failure rate over just six months. In fact, “controlled drinking therapy” has a much higher success rate.

          • dimplz Says:

            I actually have heard of this (the AA failure rate). Also, if you stop doing drugs that your body has become dependent on (at least cold turkey, that is), you could die. It’s not as cut and dry as it’s being made to look.

          • Paula Says:

            Dieting has a 95% failure rate, so it fits right in.

    • Selena Says:

      “And there’s a whole lot of evidence that one’s ability to successfully take off weight is about 80% genetic, and only 20% eating the right foods, and almost nothing related to physical activity. ”

      Ever seen pictures of concentration camp survivors? People living through a famine?

      It’s 100% about calorie restriction. Not genetics. Not physical activity.

      • Ellie Says:

        Are the people in concentration camps healthy or happy? I’m willing to bet the answer is no. anyone can starve themselves into weight loss, the middle ground is the issue. As I said above, I used to be much thinner. But I couldn’t eat more than 1000 calories a day. I was irritable. I had no energy. My hair was falling out in clumps. That’s really not a life I wanted to keep living.

        Also have you ever met someone who could eat whatever they wanted and not gain weight? Isn’t that proof that it’s something a lot more complex than calories in/calories out?

        • dimplz Says:

          “Also have you ever met someone who could eat whatever they wanted and not gain weight?”

          How many people do you know who really do that? It’s not like you’re around them all day to watch what they eat and what kind of activity they engage in. Most people who *seem* that way actually watch what they eat. A lot. I *think* (and I can’t say for sure because I’m not with her all day) I know someone (that’s 1 person) like that. She’s actually scrawny. But, she works out too. Very rarely do you meet someone who eats what they want, doesn’t exercise, and doesn’t put on weight (at least not someone over 25).

          • D Says:

            I follow a modified low carb diet and eat like a pig. But I also do 2-3 intense Crossfit workouts per week. I’m in the best shape of my life.

        • Selena Says:

          Not saying everyone has the same metabolism Ellie. I AM saying weight loss essentially has to do with the amount of calories taken in than it does, or will ever have to do with genetics or physical activity. If one takes in minimal calories for a period of time, runs through their fat stores, they will lose weight. (Including muscle ofcourse). Not debating what is *healthier* or *less healthy* , but no matter what one’s genetics…if they eat 1000 calories or fewer over a considerable period of time, they are NOT going to be overweight. If they eat 1000 for awhile, then 1600, then 2000+…yeah, it will seem like they lose weight, but can’t keep it off. Don’t blame it on genetics, blame it on calorie intake. Supposedly “genetically heavy” people were walking skeletons too at the end of WWII.

          • Ellie Says:

            1000 calories a day is miserable. I know, I did it for ten years. Why should a fat person be expected to live like that?

            • Selena Says:

              No one should calorie restrict themselves if they don’t want to. Food is one of the enjoyments of life. It’s blaming being overweight on “genetics” that is a bunch of blarney. Genetics don’t make people heavy, calorie consumption does. Like your calories? Step up and be proud to say so. ( I in fact, just relished a peanut butter snickers- hah! :))

              • Ellie Says:

                There are plenty of people who stay thin on a diet much more than 1000 calories. How do you explain the difference between me and them?

                • Selena Says:

                  “There are plenty of people who stay thin on a diet much more than 1000 calories. How do you explain the difference between me and them?”

                  Are you the exact same weight as “them”? How do you know for sure you and they are taking in the same amount of calories, and expending the same amount of energy? If you have more fat stores, you may lose weight more quickly at first, but then reach a plateau because you your restriction has triggered “conserve mode” as far as your metabolism goes.

                  • Ellie Says:

                    It seems you haven’t really bothered to read anything you’ve responded to. I said there are thin people who eat much more than 1000 calories a day. 1000 calories a day is barely anything. I assure you, without knowing the eating habits of every thin person on earth, that the vast majority of them eat more than 1000 calories a day. It’s not sustainable to eat that little. It just isn’t.

                    • Selena Says:

                      I’m not debating 1000 calories is a reasonable consumption. I don’t think it is for health. What I disagree with is the idea that weight is presumptive of genetics.

                • D Says:

                  Carbs. Stay away from rice, pasta and bread. Seriously, it works.

          • Paula Says:

            Say you’re a lean 25-year old who gains 50 pounds over 25 years to become an obese 50-year-old. If you believe in calories in/calories out, you know what that takes? 20 calories a day, which is an excess 7000 calories/2 pounds a year. That’s basically one less bite a day.

            How is it possible that anyone stays lean, if all it takes to grow gradually obese is to overshoot by 20 calories a day? And how is it possible for overweight or obese people to stay at the same weight, albeit an excessive one, for years or decades? If regulating our weight has to be done with such precision, why isn’t everyone fat?

            Or if we all eat in moderation, why don’t many more people end up emaciated? Because one less bite than is needed would result in losing 50 pounds over the same amount of time, which on someone of average weight would result in them looking like the concentration camp victims, if they were still alive.

            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              blah blah blah.


              • Paula Says:

                blah blah blah — SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

                Until you’ve read either “Good Calories, Bad Calories,” or “Why We Get Fat,” then what I look like, or you look like, or Mark’s date looks like is meaningless.

                The plural of anecdote is not data. What worked for any one of us is not necessarily what will work for any other person, and it is the height of arrogance to suggest otherwise.

                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  No. I don’t waste time reading books or data. I just, you know, exercise and watch what I eat. Seems like a far more productive use of my time.

                  What worked for any one of us is not necessarily what will work for any other person, and it is the height of arrogance to suggest otherwise.

                  It was the height of arrogance for you to suggest that the OP not bother telling the woman that she was overweight because 80% of people are genetically pre-disposed to be so, so why bother. It’s the same argument.

                  • Paula Says:

                    >>>I don’t waste time reading books or data.

                    Don’t confuse yourself with the facts or anything, especially when giving people advice.

                    I suggested that the OP not tell the woman she was overweight because she probably already knows and it would be needlessly hurtful. And if she doesn’t, why would some random guy she’s met for the first time be any more persuasive than her friends, family, doctors, the mirror, or the way her clothes fit?

                    As Taubes says, “most of us who are fat spend much of our lives trying to eat less. If it doesn’t work when the motivation is merely decades of the intense negative reinforcement that accompanies obesity — social ostracism, physical impairment, increased rate of disease — can we really expect it to work just because an authority figure in a white coat insists we give it a try? The fat person who has never tried to undereat is a rare bird.” Substitute “random guy she’s just met” for “authority figure in a while coat,” and you will have an even lower hope of persuading without offending.

                    In fact, if it did work, what would that say about her self-esteem, that she would suddenly change her ways in order to please a guy? If she lost weight, put up some new pictures, and Mark then decided he could be attracted, but then broke up with her for some other reason (of which the chances are significant), then what will she do? Say “what’s the point,” and stuff herself with junk food? You have to do it for yourself — not for anyone else.

                    The weight I lost to please my husband? It went right back on (and ironically, he preferred me heavier anyway.) The weight I lost for me? It has stayed off, although until I get closer to the 5 year mark, I’m not going to count myself a victor, since 5 years is the critical mark for keeping it off that 95% fail at.

                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      Don’t confuse yourself with the facts or anything, especially when giving people advice.

                      I find learning from mistakes and actual experiences to be the best research, Paula. I don’t waste time reading books when I could just go out and exercise and make a change instead of looking for reasons not to.

                      People buy those books to hear what they want to hear. Like the women who run out and buy all the dating self-help books. They HATE the ones that suggest the problem is theirs. But they omigod LOOOOVE the ones that tell them that they should be a bitch, or fuck “like men” or how men should “work for it.”

                      Seriously. You’ll listen to anybody as long as they tell you want they want to hear. But if they don’t, or suggest you’re to blame for the state of your life, they’re attacking you. Bullshit. Your divorce wasn’t why you put weight on, Paula. And the fact that your ex screwed up your credit wasn’t about the merging of finances. You found yourself in those situations because you had no impulse control and chose poorly. You struggle because you choose poorly, Paula. You choose to believe what you need to believe because the truth is just too painful. That’s it.

                    • Paula Says:

                      Again, Moxie, even if those things were true, why do you care?

                  • science Says:

                    Science says: weight change = caloric input + caloric output

                    There is genetic variation in metabolism but it does not explain 80% of variation in obesity. We are experiencing an obesity epidemic because people are exercising less (stationary jobs, driving everywhere, etc) and eating more energy dense foods. We have not gone through some worldwide genetic metabolism mutation.

                • Vox Says:

                  I’ve read Gary Taubes, who by the way is a journalist, not a scientist. There are a lot if scientists and nutritionists who flat out disagree with him. Something I notice about overweight and obese people is that when you read/learn/hear of something that you believe in, you blindly follow it and tout it as gospel. Your touting that “it’s all genetic” is no different than “it’s the fat” people used to say when I was a teen. One size does not fit all. The best thing you can do for yourself is to pick, choose and experiment with yourself. One size does not fit all.

                  • D Says:

                    I believe Gary Taubes, and I’m sub-10% body fat. Most of the people at my gym follow Paleo.

                    • Vox Says:

                      And I used to believe in Santa Claus, but that didn’t make the story of Santa delivering gifts on Xmas eve true. Your body fat % has absolutely no bearing on the validity of Taubes books. As I keep saying, one size does not fit all; every individual needs to learn what works for them, not what works for you (or the people in your gym).

                    • D Says:

                      I’ve never been in tis good a shape, and I’m 43 years old. I’ve never had a six pack until I started doing this diet.

                      Sure, many people respond in different ways, but there is solid science behind the Paleo/low-carb theory.

                    • dimplz Says:

                      I know the low carb thing works, but it’s very difficult to do these fad diets long term. It’s not sustainable for the most part. If it were, all of the meat sections of the supermarkets would be sold out. Cheese is expensive, meat is expensive, produce (good, organic produce) is expensive. Everyone needs to figure out what works for them. Completely cutting out a food group or sugar is unrealistic. Eventually, we will run into a situation where we have one or the other. Now, you don’t need to have a gallon of ice cream, but an occasional treat or portion control is key. I challenge anyone to tell me they have followed a portion controlled program and have committed to basic exercise for at least a few months to a year and haven’t seen any results, because that person is a liar.

                    • Paula Says:

                      >>>Completely cutting out a food group or sugar is unrealistic.

                      You know, we’re all different. I cut out sugar completely from my diet for 2 1/2 years. That’s completely, not even bites (I’m sure it worked its way into things without my knowledge, but if it said on the label it had added sugar, or I could taste it, I stopped.)

                      Then I decided this year to have some for my birthday, and triggered a binge that lasted for a month. Cutting it out completely is what is realistic for me — portion control isn’t. The latest research shows that sugar is more addictive than either heroin or cocaine, and while I never plan to run that test myself, I know it’s easier to just treat it as poison and leave it alone, than to deal with the mood swings, headaches, acne, blood sugar crashes, and other symptoms that arise when I tell myself I deserve a little treat.

                      D’s right: there’s solid science behind low-carb/Paleo diets. If you can’t do them, and something else works for you, that’s great. But the low-fat/low-calorie diet that has been sold to us as the way to go is the one that should be considered the fad diet, since it’s only in the last few decades (thanks to Ancel Keys) that anyone believed it adequately combated obesity, instead of following the same approach that had been used for centuries.

                    • dimplz Says:

                      Don’t be fooled by sugar-free. It triggers its own cravings. There isn’t a simple diet that works better than portion control. Self-control is completely different. You crave sugar. Everyone craves sugar. We all want more once we’ve had some. Some of us say “no,” even if we’re left feeling dissatisfied at the end of the day. You keep a low carb diet because it helps control the cravings. I get it. But portion control, along with a balanced diet (which I am amending my earlier statement) does work.

                      You have yet to show any of us evidence of people who have been able to eat the right portions, a balanced diet, exercise regularly and not see results after doing this for at least a few months to a year. Please don’t respond unless you have evidence of this.

                  • D Says:

                    The diet I follow is called Slow Carb, and it was popularized by Tim Ferriss in the Four Hour Body. One think I really like about it is that one day a week (usually Saturday) I eat anything I want. I go out of my way to eat pizza, pancakes, ice cream, donuts etc.

                    It’s psychologically much easier to resist cravings if I know I’ll be able to eat whatever I’m craving in a few days.

      • Paula Says:

        Ever seen pictures of the Pima Indians who lived through a famine in the 1800s but remained obese? Working class women from Naples at the end of World War II? Bantus from South Africa in the 1960s? People from Ghana and Nigeria around 1970? There are just as many pictures of malnourished starving fat people out there as malnourished starving emaciated people, but since they don’t fit the paradigm or are in remote locations, you don’t see or know about them.

        Or, the “obese” mice used in obesity research, who cannot lose significant weight no matter what they’re fed?

        • Selena Says:

          No. But I do know malnousrished people often have bloated stomachs which might make them ‘look’ fat. There is a term for this I don’t feel like looking up. Maybe you do?

          • dimplz Says:

            Kwashiorkor. It comes from eating solely grains/being malnourished.

          • Paula Says:

            This wasn’t kwashiorkor. This was obesity among populations who were eating next to nothing. But what they were eating was grains and sugar, which caused them to retain weight despite their low caloric and fat intake.

            • Selena Says:

              Provide the link to this scientific research Paula please.

              • Ellie Says:

                The Obesity Myth and Rethinking Thin are both great books that cite study after scientific study that back up what she’s saying.

              • Paula Says:

                Gary Taubes’ two books “Good Calories, Bad Calories” and “Why We Get Fat” are chock-full of scientific studies disproving “calories-in/calories-in” and exercise as a tool for weight loss. His work has been written about enough that you can Google him and get the highlights of the work he has done to compile and analyze hundreds of nutrition and obesity studies over the last couple of hundred years. But if you can read either of the two books I mentioned (find them at the library if you can’t afford to purchase them new or find them used) they really will change your life.

                As someone who has struggled with weight issues, the depths to which we have been deceived by arrogant doctors and scientists attempting to preserve their reputations, and by the weight loss industry trying to keep people in a state where they will keep paying money in hopes of becoming thin, makes me very angry, and most are more obese than ever.

                As for why I believe in genetics, aside from what the research indicates: I am adopted and met my birth mother for the first time 3 years ago. I’m now in my 40s and she in her 60s. She has fed me exactly one meal (which her husband cooked.) Just as I have her eyes, nose, mouth and chin, I also have her almost identical build. She’s taller, and accordingly heavier, but where on our bodies our weight is distributed and the amount by which we’re overweight is virtually identical. I always blamed my (adopted) mom for making dessert a food group, but feeding my dad for 58 years hasn’t made him fat (he’s about the same weight as his parents were), and now that she feeds my nephew, he’s still a beanpole, like his mother.

                Again, the plural of anecdote is not data. But go to “awkward family photos” or anywhere else you like, and you’ll see that the vast majority of genetically-related families all end up with similar builds.

                • SB Says:

                  But what about all of the people on this blog and that we all know in real life who have lost weight just from exercising, before even changing their diet? What about the fact that I actually do as much intense (and really, intense! Weight lifting, interval training, etc) workouts 6-7 times a week and have to make sure I eat Enough so that I don’t become too skinny again?

                  What about the fact that I became seriously underweight in college, even though I turned to a diet of mostly all sugar and carbs, plus peanut butter for fat, to try to gain some weight back but still kept losing – because I exercised a lot. I mean, I was scary skinny, prompting lectures from anyone and everyone (extremely annoying, btw).

                  Finally, after two years, I have gained back to my high school weight and have to make sure I eat enough food to stay here and not lose too much. It is when I stop exercising (or start only doing cardio or running) that I gain weight.

                  I know others who, not as extreme as me, but change their bodies and health status(es?) by only adding exercise. What about all of them?

    • freedom Says:

      The thing is…. sometimes people are very photogenic, and even recent pics can make them look more attractive and thinner than they may be in person.

      So, there’s that too…

  8. Laura Says:

    From a selfish perspective, you need to figure out what you want:

    -If you want to be friends with her (doesn’t sound like it, but just in case): don’t tell her the real reason now, as it will just piss her off and make you come off as the bad guy. Later, if you end up being friends and get to a more comfortable point, you can tell her.
    -If you don’t intend to talk to her again, then tell her. She asked, and it could definitely help her to know (depending on whether she ACTUALLY wants to change or just thinks she does; people often kid themselves about that). That said, her initial reaction is probably going to be something about how horrible/shallow you are, so be prepared for that and don’t expect to be friends if you tell her (unless she’s incredibly self-aware and not one to hold a grudge). Just remember that you are absolutely not in the wrong here, but she will probably be in denial and try to paint you as the bad guy.

  9. Trouble Says:

    I’m torn on this issue. Sometimes, you get a sense that people can’t handle the truth, and are going to go batshit on you. I used to be a lot more truthful, and then I was truthful with the wrong people, in a pretty damn tactful way (“I just don’t think we’re a fit.”) and a few guys reacted in a seriously crazy way, and I rethought my responses to men. At the end, right before I met my guy, I started to use “it’s not you, it’s me,” almost exclusively. But there was one guy who was really nice, but clearly so damaged from his previous relationship. For instance, he spent half of our first date talking about his ex-wife and how she’d broken his heart. He clearly wasn’t over her. So, I went out of my way to say, “Hey, I’ve been where you are, recently divorced and still hurting, and what I want you to know is that you’re a great guy, and it’s going to get better. But, you clearly aren’t over what happened, and I don’t think your’e really ready to date. Give yourself some time to heal before you head back out here. I can tell, from the way that you talk about your ex, that you really haven’t moved on emotionally, and you need to take some time to do that, if you want to avoid repeating your previous mistakes.” It was one of the rare times that I actually came out and said exactly what I was thinking, and I did it because he seemed like such a nice person, but so hurt and clearly still struggling. I wished that someone had told me that when I was in that place, but no one did. I had to figure it out on my own.

    For a lot of things, that’s true. We have to work it out in our own heads. But in this situation, I would advise the OP to say, as tactfully as possible, that her pictures don’t look like her anymore, and he wishes he’d known up front how heavy she was. Will that be hard to say tactfully? Yep. But, perhaps it is the last straw that she needs to address something that is hindering her from meeting the type of people that she clearly wants to date. If she’s asking for truth, give it to her, but give it to her with the idea of helping her address her problems, not as an attack.

    I can’t say that she will take it well. I mean, what woman wants to be told that she’s fat? But, truth is truth, and if it comes from a good, kind place, that’s a pretty humane thing to do. It may not help her, but you never know. Maybe it will.

  10. Selena Says:

    As someone who’s weight has yo-yo’d by close to 40 lbs. in the last 7 years I can relate to not “thinking” I looked that heavy, or that thin. Even looking in mirrors. But pictures…they sure reflect the truth. I totally get what Moxie said about not feeling you are, or look, that much heavier. Or thinner for that matter in you happen to become underweight.

    Mark, I think it was bad form of her to put you on the spot by asking you why you thought the two of you weren’t a match. Who does that? It’s kind of in your face, “Why don’t you like me? Give me a reason!” Uncouth.

    But since she was uncouth enough to ask…you could tell her you thought her pictures were out of date and you are attracted to a more slender/average body shape. Yeah, she’ll probably be pissed and think you a dick – but it might give her pause about asking some other guy she went out with once the same question. You up for that kind of honesty? Feeling about it later?

    Personally? I’d just leave it alone. You were kind enough to respond to her – you don’t “owe” someone you met once an appraisal of what you think of them. In any way.

  11. bill Says:

    Generally the majority/heaviest users of online dating is generally overweight women. They do not like the selection of men in real life thus they believe if they went online they can find the man they desire.

    In reality girls are as bad as the guys but the biggest difference the men above her league would generally take her out and have lots of fun with her. With no desire to have a relationship with her. She wonders it is because I was too needy/i did something/etc. In reality they had no desire to have a relationship the girls in the first place. You were the fun time girl until the right girl comes. Sometimes she goes; I am dating a jerk again and I should find a nice guy. The reality that guy who is above her league is generally the jerk and the nice guy. You weren’t that attractive to a high level to him where he wanted a relationship with that he would be seen from a perceptive as nice/needy/etc.

    The truth if you want a relationship you have to be upfront about it. Generally from all the married women I know who are in relationships where both couples seems to really like each other. The man in the relationship talked about them being in a relationship early early on.

    The reality she knows she is fat but she doesn’t want to date someone like her.

  12. chillybeans Says:

    I don’t think there is any good way out of this. Two choices:

    1-You can lie to protect her feelings (the old I didn’t feel the spark yada yada), but it’s more of a little white lie IMHO. I don’t think not being 100% honest to protect someone’s feelings is such a horrible thing. After one date exactly how much do you owe her?
    I think she knows exactly why you didn’t feel the spark, but wants you to say it out loud so she can then call you shallow, complain that you are a dick, all men are the same (maybe not to your face, but to all her friends etc) I don’t agree with that personally, but I know the type who does. You are attracted to a certain type and there is nothing wrong with that, don’t let yourself be bullied into something else. All compelling cases for the little white lie. And isn’t etiquette/good manners made up of this kind of stuff? Not always being super directly honest (like saying dinner was delicous when you are over a friend’s house even when it isn’t)

    2-Or you can be totally honest and tell her it’s her weight, that she wasn’t the woman he pictured online.

    This happened to my BF, he went on a date with a woman he met online-when she showed up she was much heavier than her online pictures. Since he is one of the most direct people I have ever known, he had no problem calling her on it. Her reply? It doesn’t count because I gained weight due to a medical issue! (WTF do you say to that?)

  13. Diana Says:

    I think what most people are missing here is that the majority of people misrepresent themselves to a certain degree with online dating — men too. It’s almost like padding a resume.

    I’ve been chubby, then I was thin and I was obsessive about it when I was. I over exercised and didn’t allow myself any rewards. That was ten plus years ago. Now I’ve settled into a comfortable weight somewhere in between and allow myself the occasional treat. I exercise regularly and teach a few aerobic classes a week at a local gym.

    If this woman is comfortable in her own skin and with herself than the reason shouldn’t bother her too much. Looking for validation and worthiness in other people isn’t worth it, and eventually most people come around to that reality. It’s about the only thing that comes with age!

  14. Vox Says:

    I certainly don’t need to have pointed out to me the physical “flaws” which would make a man reject me. I’m well aware that I have a big nose, for instance. I really don’t see what there is to be gained by telling this woman she’s too fat for your tastes. “I just don’t feel any chemistry” is what I’d want to hear. I’ve never been fat before, but surely I’d be well aware if I were, just as I an well aware that some people find me unattractive for other reasons.

  15. dimplz Says:

    I think OP should tell her because obviously no one else is. My friend showed me her profile the other day. It was succinct and well written, and I also looked at her photos and suggested she put some in that show her doing things she loves such as cooking, going out, etc. It’s good to try to show your personality (and your current body) in your profile. I’m wondering if OP can elaborate here. Did he misread the profile? Did she describe herself as curvy? I think something along the lines of, “I’m not seeing the same person who’s portrayed in your profile,” and leave it at that. She’ll get the picture, so to speak.

  16. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Stop baiting me, Moxie. I’m not one of your online profile clients; nor have I asked for your advice, so it’s clear this is some kind of malicious “payback” as you referenced above.

    Feel free if you want to post whatever photos you want of yourself in whatever state of dress you choose, but you’re not going to bait me into doing it. My trainer and the league will be posting photos of me soon enough, and since you have so much stored away about me (and apparently nothing better to do), you’ll be able to find them anyway without my facilitating your compulsive need to attack and/or call a liar everyone who disagrees with you.

    Yes, Paula. You’re just sooooooooooooooooooo important to all of us. We’re all waiting with baited breath to see these photos of you. That’s what delusional people tell themselves to make themselves feel more important. You commit things to memory that I write and frequently throw them in my face. Isn’t that the same thing? Oh, right. When you do it, it’s different. It’s acceptable. But when someone turns your tactics back on to you, boy howdy, you you whine like a little baby.

    Oh, and the “you attack everyone who disagrees with you” schtick. Please. You can’t help but victimize yourself because you’re incapable of taking responsibility for anything.

    • Paula Says:

      >>>We’re all waiting with baited breath to see these photos of you. That’s what delusional people tell themselves to make themselves feel more important.

      Then why did you ask me for them three times? Or act like they would prove something more substantial than scientific studies involving tens of thousands of people? [And, actually, it’s “bated breath,” since I’ll assume, since you say you watch what you eat, you aren’t so cranky from eating worms.]

      >>>When you do it, it’s different.

      Yep. I’ve never met a blogger so obsessed with attacking her commenters. If I’m delusional, so effin’ what? If I’m incapable of taking responsibility for anything, so effin’ what? If I exercise 20 hours a week or 10 or 0, so effin’ what? If I’m full-blown obese or Kate Moss-skinny, so effin’ what? If I get 10 thumbs up, or 10 thumbs down, or somewhere in between, so effin’ what?


      I’m not asking for your advice. I’m not another dating and relationship blogger. I share information at my disposal, and speak to my own experience and that of the people around me, but am not holding myself out as an expert. I’m not telling people they shouldn’t post anything about themselves on the Internet, and then in the very next instant, claiming that people who don’t post revealing things have something to hide. Why do you act like every post of mine personally threatens you in some way?

      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        Then why did you ask me for them three times?

        Because you’re all talk, Paula. Just like the women who say how everybody tells them how young they are. You love to talk about yourself. I think somebody who does that should be expected to back up their claims. If they don’t, then they might as well be talking in to the wind.

        I’ve never met a blogger so obsessed with attacking her commenters.

        I’m not attacking you at all. That’s how you see it because it allows you to play the victim. People have disagreed with me for years. This is another way you try to shirk responsibility. You trounce all over these comments, day in and day out, debating with people and trying to pull them in to your arguments, beating them over the head with your logic and reason. And you do that because you get a false sense of satisfaction from it. Yes, Paula, you sure do have a way with words and spelling and logic and reason and no doubt you could debate anybody and likely win strictly based on a collection of data that you found to support your argument. But what you can’t do, and don’t do, is take responsibility for yourself and your life. You argue here because it makes you feel good about yourself to “win.” You get to wield a skill over many of us, including me. But you do it because you need to, because it’s one of the few ways in your life you have to feel superior and in control. Unfortunately, you don’t factor in the people who don’t debate you because they just plain feel sorry for you, and the others who just don’t like you and don’t find you worth the energy. If those people were to engage you, they’d beat you effortlessly. Every time.

        WHY DO YOU CARE?

        It’s amazing how this conversation has almost mirrored another that I had with someone just like you a few months ago. You need to believe that all of this is because we “care” about you or are fascinated by you in some way. Again, just another way for you to feel superior or good about yourself. you don’t even see how desperately you want people to care, Paula. You want people to care, Paula. You want people to notice you. You want a reaction. You want to feel important. That’s why you don’t shut up. That’s why you try to prod and poke and provoke people. It’s the only way to get them to acknowledge you. I’m not doing anything that you don’t do on a regular basis. I’m just not being obtuse about it.

        I share information at my disposal,

        Yes. Quite recklessly in fact. For someone so smart and logical, you’ve all but led people right to you time and again. That’s the opposite of being private. Kinda makes people wonder if maybe you WANT people to know who you are.

        I’m not telling people they shouldn’t post anything about themselves on the Internet, and then in the very next instant, claiming that people who don’t post revealing things have something to hide.

        You know what I’ve found about people who like to talk a lot about themselves on the internet but hide behind “anonymity?” They’re usually liars. People trying to be someone they aren’t, creating and locking themselves in to a persona that doesn’t exist. One that they created to escape the real them, the person they hate.

        Why do you act like every post of mine personally threatens you in some way?

        Again, here you go with trying to imply that anybody who calls you out is threatened by you. There is nothing about you or your life that I covet. Nothing. The only way you can get people to pay attention to you is to be provocative – sex, logic , arguments- they’re interchangeable with you. You’ll do and say anything to get people to take notice. You so desperately want people to be impressed by you. You need it.

        • Paula Says:

          >>>the others who just don’t like you and don’t find you worth the energy.

          But yet, you do. Every time.

          That says so much more than your pop psychology and downright projection above. Yes, I like to debate, and I try to do it responsibly, which means backing it up with facts and/or personal experience. If you enjoy it too, then reply. If you don’t, then don’t. Simple as that.

          And if you want to be a blogger giving advice, but never want anyone to contradict it, then you should probably be in another line of “work.”

          • b Says:

            If I may go out on a limb here, Paula, I think a big reason you’re pissing Moxie off is because you’re way overexposed on this blog. I think many of your comments are interesting and add something of value to the discussions, but then it gets annoying to keep seeing your name (or anyone’s) pop up over and over again responding to every response on the same thread. Try to resist when someone addresses one of your points directly in theirs. It’s not necessary to keep coming back and clarifying your original point, or defending, or giving examples. Make your point once, and then sit back while others have a turn. If you cut back on your commenting volume, I guarantee your input will be more respected by the blog community, and your comments will carry more weight (pardon the pun!). Less is more. Just my 2 cents.

            (And please do not respond to this input with another comment – just take it or leave it as you see fit, privately.)

  17. Sarah Says:

    It sounds like the window of opportunity has already closed, but I think if a woman pushes back for an answer in the future, he should provide one.

    OP wouldn’t be a dick if he’d told her what he was thinking at the time, but can you imagine if he emailed her a week later, like, “Oh, btw, the real reason was because I think you’re too fat. Ok, good luck.” The poor woman wouldn’t even try to date for at least a year.

  18. Jules Says:

    I think the OP sounds like a nice guy. I also think he should tell her in as gentle of a way as possible. I saw something similar happen to my friend several years ago. She was on Match and did not post any pictures of herself from the neck down. That’s because she was clinically obese. So she would go on these dates and have a seemingly great time (great conversation, laughs, etc) but would be dumbfounded on why the guys never called again.
    Having seen her profile, I had to tell her that it’s because they probably felt that her profile didn’t paint a full picture (no pun intended) and that she should either consider posting pictures that show her entire body or consider going offline.
    I’m sure us being friends since childhood helped her take the news more easily, but she saw where I was coming from and decided to take herself off from Match. Soon after, she met someone through friends who loved her for her body (she’s still obese and is actually bigger than she was back then) and they are happily married with a baby.

  19. nathan Says:

    If I were the guy being pressed for an answer, the lack of updated photos is what I would focus on. “You didn’t look like your photos, and I didn’t feel enough of a connection.” That’s about all I would say. Saying something like that allows you to point out a misleading piece of the person’s profile, without getting into the personalized judgments. It’s certainly possible that the woman in question might leap to those judgments herself, but that’s her issue.

    I will say though that it’s really important to remember this was one date. They’re nearly strangers still, so in some ways, it seems to me that a simple “I didn’t feel enough of a connection” comment is all you need to offer. Why does she need to know more than that anyway? He didn’t disappear and say nothing. He directly told her he’s not interested. Nothing else is needed in my view.

  20. nykthedyk Says:

    Seems to me that discussing dieting/weight is much like discussing dating/relationships. There doesn’t seem to be one thing that works for everyone.

    Pass the chips, please.

    Would the OP be unattracted to her if she lied about something else that wasn’t as high on his importance scale as weight was?

  21. Mark Says:

    I’m of two minds on this one, so please bear with me.

    First, the OP points to an aculal weight vs. posted weight (via photo—older picture??). Yet this could easily be about almost anything the posted in a profile that doesn’t turn out quite to be as advertised. Some people might call this puffery. Others might call it lying. I wouldn’t doubt that she has had similar reactions and responses of 1st dates that didn’t go any further than that. I’m also guess she knows the reasons but isn’t addressing them. Either in the dating profile, and more importantly to herself. I’ll leave that to the individual to decide for themselves.

    In any event, you did not feel tht this was going anyplace because you are attracted to a particular body type. Or it might be you are not especially attracted to other body types. That’s OK. You are attracted to because that is your personal preference. She falls into the “your a nice woman, but….” line coes to mind.

    Now comes the tough part. She asked why you didn’t think you two were a match.

    One school of thought says the less you say about this, the better. It might be that you want to spare feelings or simply don’t want to bother because it would be a waste of your time. It might be any host of reasons.

    A second school of thought is that you might want to reply. Your idea about what to say seems standard. Sure it’s the equivalent of a form rejection letter, but well adjusted adults ought to be able to take it for what it is. You might also feel that since she asked you, you could tell her that you felt that what she posted was materially different than who she in fact was. In short, a deception. You might say that you don’t feel it would be a good way to start things off that way. Some people may argue that if this deception is at the start of a potential relationship, what else is she not being honest about?

    In all fairness, almost any response, or non response would probably be OK. so long as you keep it respectful and on point without going over the top.

    Sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately that seems to be the way of the world.

    Hope things improve.

  22. Denny Laine Says:

    I say there’s no need to tell her. It’s a jungle out there. When girls have second thoughts about me after the first meeting I don’t take it personally.

    It’s funny for some ethnicities weight wouldn’t even be an issue.


  23. Erine Says:

    Moxie won’t sleep well if she hasn’t attacked a question asker and “called him on” on some perceived “bad thing”?
    I’ve dated online too, and many men told me it had happenerd to them that a woman looked heavier than in photos, and that sometimes she would have a beautiful face – and they meant it. It can happen you know that a woman has a beautiful face and is fat and thus produces a general effect of not being attractive. It’s 99% possible that the OP found her face beautiful but her body and the fat on her face were a turn off for him.
    It’s the number one comlaint amongst men online that women are heavier/much heavier in person than in their photos (I’m not sure why girls do that: most men said they never went out again – so the fact that you lured him on a date doesn’t secure any romantic possibility – he will just not go out with you again).
    I think OP could very gently tell her why. Maybe it will serve as some type of motivation for her to work out so that she could become a “catch” if she all that beautiful and itneresting as the OP says she is.
    I would hate it too if I was a man and was misled like that. If someone doesn’t want to post their “fat” pics and thus scare off potential matches, maybe they should lose the extra weight first.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      What I was calling him on was his claim that he maybe could have gotten past the weight because she had a beautiful face. Not that he thought she had a beautiful face. If he could have gotten past it, he would have at least tried.

      • D Says:

        I’ve overlooked weight in favor a pretty face, but not in long term relationships. Just short-term hookups.

  24. Erine Says:

    I used to think this way too that we should value one’s internal over the external, and that “show him what an amazing person you are” and he will fall for you. But it’s not how it works, and I learned it from my own experience: I’m not going to be able to get to the point of “getting to know one’s beautiful inner world” if I don’t feel any attraction at that very initial stage.
    A man or a woman who passes up on a great person whom they are absolutely not attracted to, are not shallow, but are just people. It’s ridiculous to expect people to give everyone a chance bases on the premise of someone’s “beautiful hear and mind” – those things matter, but unfortunately if someone doesn’t do it for us physically/visually in any way – it’s not meant to be/go beyond platonic relationship.

  25. Denny Laine Says:

    I agree, having our “types” is a powerful thing. If people just went by what they see on paper with people, no one would be single.

    • wishing u well Says:

      Having “types” is a powerful thing, but not an impossible thing. It’s one thing to know that you find a person physically repulsive to you, and obviously one should leave that alone. However, my point is geared more towards the middle ground. I made a point in my dating life to stop focusing solely on my “type” and to try getting to know different persons outside of that. Not only did it make my dating life more colorful, it enabled me to focus on what I really needed in a partner versus finding someone that matched up with my imagined image / expectation of “the ideal match.” Of course, being attracted to a person matters. But being too rigid in one’s expectations is a great way to ensure that one stays single.

      For the intent of the original posting – if the woman is intentionally misrepresenting herself in her photos, obviously she is not satisfied with how she currently looks. On some level it sends a message that she doesn’t find herself acceptable. And that is sad, because it’s almost as if she’s putting the onus on the men she meets online to validate her. Nope, I wouldn’t respond to her inquiry as it’s a no-win situation.

  26. Mike Says:

    Tell her the truth that she was bigger in person than in her pictures. She deliberately posted pictures that were not accurate. If you can’t get past her weight than you just can’t get past her weight. Also putting the weight aside, there is the issue of honesty. She let you see what you wanted to see, so that she could get what she wanted. In any relationship there has to be complete honesty if there is going to be true love and happiness. Otherwise it will be a relationship of game playing and mind games.

  27. Kurt Says:

    I don’t think that Mark should tell her anything as he is in a no-win situation. As others have noted, the woman almost certainly knows that she is fat, so why is she pushing for the real reason? For all we know, she might post his explanation on a website or forward it to any mutual friends she might have with Mark in an effort to make him look like a jerk, even though he is only being honest after being put in an uncomfortable situation.

  28. Mike Felber Says:

    He should tell her as kindly as possible. She sincerely asked, & we do not know what she wants to hear, if she is deluded, how much she may or may not realize the picture discrepancy-these things are not black & white. Folks can be blind, self deceptive, not admit the extent they lie to themselves. She may benefit from hearing the truth, whether losing weight to be healthier, increase her dating options, or just accept the truth & post accurate pictures. IF she was just trying to be deceptive & pushed the question, also it is good to see you cannot get away with that so easily.

    I strongly disagree that it is inappropriate or uncouth to ask politely why someone does not want to go out. If they are brave enough to ask, they may want to learn & change something if it was an issue, or maybe they just really liked & felt a connection, so wanted to actually understand que pasa. And this notion that we should avoid any potential awkwardness, or avoid the “trouble” of caring to spend a minute to give a humane & possibly productive answer: this tends to be part of a modern”be as careful & cold as you can” attitude, if there is no perceived personal benefit.

    So much pathology around the psychology of weight, but the solution is not to avoid reality.

  29. Mike Felber Says:

    Academically, I wonder where the truth lies re: weigh gain. Clearly the biggest factors are calories in & out, activity level, frame/height & muscle strongly effect metabolism & caloric needs, this men can generally consume somewhat more. And I doubt weight is almost all genetic, since we have gotten much fatter even in a generation or so.

    But there is substantial variation in fat storage & resistance to weight loss. The word not mentioned above is “homeostasis”, folks tend to have a set point & the body will cotton to this. problem is that with less activity & more food, AND being selected by evolution to avoid starvation, that set point tends to bump up over time.

    I am skeptical that activity is not only hugely important for health, but does not contribute to weight loss. Recall that the vast majority of folks do not keep off weight, & largely because they are in dysfunctional, unsustainable programs. So even if they get more hungry from exercise, how many have the wisdom to eat more, but of nutrient dense, lower calorie foods? Like fruits, veggies that are high fiber, & also keep protein up, at least if there work outs stress the muscles a lot, not just the cardiovascular system.

    Do they know how to do other things to limit cravings? Besides cutting gown on sugar & white flour, having enough protein helps limit those cravings. And while fat is much more calorically dense, having all low fat, especially with much refined sugar, does not permit you to be satiated & thus more bad stuff may be consumed. Lastly, folks vary in what balance of carbs, fat & protein will be ideal based upon activity & genetics.

  30. C Says:

    Oy! This one got heavy.

    It’s funny, just yesterday I was talking to a friend that recently joined a dating site and she mentioned that she only posts pictures that make her look more fit than she is. Because of this, she is afraid that a guy will be turned off when he meets her in person. In her case, she knows she is not being up front. She knows there is a possibility that the guy will be disappointed. While she is an awesome chick and attractive and stylish, her approach seems a little dishonest to me.

    I don’t have a weight problem, but I have other insecurities that I may try to hide in photos (like trying to get my “good side” in the shot). So I get that. But with physical attraction being the first criteria for success in many dating situations, I would think that you would want to put your most accurate face forward. For that reason, I kinda feel like this guy should just be honest. No, it’s not going to make his date feel good. And it probably won’t make her get all super fit all of a sudden (and that’s not his responsibility anyway). But she will know that trying to portray herself, physically or otherwise, as someone she is not is not a key to landing successful dates.

  31. bill Says:

    I always told my female friends this post photos online that make you look fatter. Men are way more about looks than women. When he sees a fitter version of you when you meet. He will be super excited about you.

  32. Jules Says:

    I really hope that the OP will follow up with an update given that his question sparked over 100 comments! Tell us what happened!

  33. Erine Says:

    One of the reasons why we are turned off by much bigger people is because we are (subconsiously) looking into the future: if now at a relatively young age and before kids or years after having them and during the dating period, a person is out of shape, what’s going to happen to them later on? Not just with respect to what they look/will look like, but also their health: obviously we all want our life partner to live as long as possible, and extra weight doesn’t exactly prolong people’s lives, not to mention it introduces a myriad of health problems that make the quality of life of the overweight person and his/her kids/partners/family less enjoyable and more complicated.
    To bash a guy/call him superficial for not wanting to go out with a large woman who also happened to have wasted a few hours of his “real time” as well as the online time by misrepresenting herself, is really ridiculous.
    I agree that it’s compatibility and the person’s qualities such as kindness, reasonable temper, being there for you, being reliable, etc. that matter more than their looks, but humans have been created in such a way that the first thing they see is – yes, what they see – the other person’s looks, and if they don’t excite them in any way, even the smallest way – it’s not meant to be. Unless they were friends/co-workers first and got to know each other and so something developed. But in the context of pure romantic potential or dating online, it doesn’t work.

    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      It’s not “human nature” to find fat people unattractive. There are times in history where fat people were considered more attractive (and, most likely, there will be again. You heard it here first!) It does appear to be human nature, however, to tend to justify our prejduices with nature.

      It’s not about health. You are a product of your times, and your dislike of fat people is programmed socially and based solely on prejudice not by nature or instinct. Sorry.

  34. Mike Felber Says:

    That is somewhat incorrect DMN. While many times folks justify biases, there is much evidence that there are biological preferences in what the average person is attracted to, & men are much more visual partly for the reason that this allows more progeny, but also what is linked with fertility tends to be preferred. It is a natural TENDENCY, also influenced by culture. If you taker a large cross section of cultures & show guys figure drawings of woman varying only by size & proportion, those that are overweight, obese, OR underweight will not be preferred nearly as often as those who are fit. Also, woman with proportions linked to fertility, something like .a .7 ratio of Waist to bust & hips are preferred, even when the body fat is the same! It is not cultural, hips flaring out over waist, as opposed to the straighter more male proportions, are clearly signifiers of femininity due to being associated with fertility & childbirth potentials All cultures & most all fashion seeks to accentuate things linked with fertility & estrogen levels (that is, we fine them attractive, so it is done even if that is not the conscious intent). These include cinching waist lines, showing full lips, big eyes, clear supple skin, lush hair…All heavily correlated with youth & hormonal levels..

    The model-thin fashion industry images are pushed hard, but few guys prefer it. And there were times when fat was preferred, but not usually, & even that was in part an adaptive thing in response to circumstances. That is, fat is much less healthy overall, but when much of the public is in danger of or actually starving, being able to sore fat against that is useful, & even being overweight is better than starving. Also, many diseases like consumption would emaciate you, & the ones who could get bigger also overwhelmingly had money & power to protect them…

    I hasten to add that there is ALSO a socially programmed dislike of things, & terrible prejudice against the fat, especially woman. But that is separate from seeing what is effected strongly by culture, individual imprinting: & clearly some natural tendencies that are consistent with health & the prospects of having a fit mate to pass on our genes.

  35. Jamal Says:

    Just gotta say, granted it is moxie’s blog and she can do whatever she wants, in regards to her back and forth dialogue with Paula. However moxie tells people on here to stop baiting people and knock off the rude comments, but it’s okaynfor moxie to do what she tells people not to do. Moxie is a hypocrite! After rudely talking in front of everyone on this blog all about Paula and her personal life I have zero respect for moxie and her double standard behavior.

    • dimplz Says:

      I have to interject to say this. I have been reading here for about 6 years. Near the beginning, Moxie and I had issues. Like you said, we have to respect that it is her blog. She left your comment up, so obviously she is not averse to constructive criticism. However, seeing that this post has over 100 comments, and 1/4 of those are Paula’s, I’d like to think that she is fairly tolerant. Especially, when private things from her private blog appeared on this very public blog from the very person whom you are protecting. It’s not the first time it has happened. If you were a reader of the private blog, it stands to reason that you won’t reveal what you read on the public sphere. Now Paula doesn’t owe Moxie anything, but conversely, Moxie doesn’t owe Paula anything either. Yet, Moxie has edited a few of Paula’s comments that threatened to reveal who she was. I think up until this point, she was being more than tolerant on not revealing her identity. I don’t know how many of us would have done the same in her shoes.

      • dimplz Says:

        Amending this because she didn’t reveal her identity, but rather pointed to something personal that Paula alluded to many times on this blog.

      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        On the subject of revealing someone’s identity….

        As I said in my last comment, nothing here was mentioned or discussed that that person didn’t share of her own volition. I also gave a very clear warning to Paula that if she decided to reveal something that was discussed privately again, I would return the favor. the difference being that Paula discussed these things publicly, on here, several times. She also wrote a comment and offered key words to find her and told people to Google her. You can’t put that genie back in to the bottle. When someone wrote a comment and revealed Paula’s name, I edited that comment.

        I can’t be responsible for what people say on here. I do the best I can, but I can’t force people to be more cautious. They either are or they aren’t. I also can’t monitor and read every, single comment written on this blog. Had I caught Vox’s comment earlier, it would have been deleted. But I only saw it AFTER Paula responded to it and , yet again, made reference to something that had been discussed privately. I had a similar issue with another commenter who was revealing details of someone else’s private life on here. I edited those comments and was accused of censorship. So i can’t win either way.

        Jamal is right in that I aggressively challenged Paula’s statements. But I didn’t “attack” her. If someone is going to write inflammatory comments or make similar types of assertions or claims, then they really should be prepared for people to challenge them in a similar way.

        • Paula Says:

          From the point at which I started posting here, “Moxie” was associated with her name — there was never a point in my knowledge of this blog where Moxie was an anonymous female blogger from NYC. She was always [name], of which the blog was one piece of marketing her business producing singles events and sex ed classes. Moxie has also pretty much always known who I am since shortly after I started commenting here, since she required people to be her Facebook friends for a period of time, and we have communicated through Facebook. I also took one of her classes, which means she has all of my personally identifying information.

          I’ve been pretty open about my life, and would probably continue to be so, had Moxie not told me recently that several blog commenters here know who I am. A few months before that, Moxie started over with this blog, and the prior blogs (both her public and private ones) are no longer accessible to the public, including the facts which led some people to me. Since that point, I have not revealed personal information that could lead people to me, including talking about my sport by name, because of Moxie’s past practices of targeting people (which were publicly available on the Internet, not just through the private blog) and because I do not know who these other people are. Yesterday blew all that.

          Why? I can’t tell you why Moxie took something I wrote about dieting, and used it to start demanding pictures (which since she knows who I am, she could obtain for herself anyway), calling me a liar, and giving her unqualified psychological diagnosis of me. Moxie is not going to recognize what she said about me as an attack, but the words speak for themselves. If being called a liar and delusional (just a fraction of her comments about me yesterday) are not attacks, I don’t know what are.

          Moxie is a very recent convert to keeping her private life private because she believes it has adversely affected her dating life. Moxie’s views on dating and relationships and sex are certainly relevant to anyone who’s going to date her, and so anything she puts out there, whether controversial or not, has the potential to be read and considered by anyone who will date her (whether they choose to do so, of course, is another matter). As Moxie’s conversion is fairly recent, there are two issues: 1) as Jamal references, the hypocrisy of criticizing someone for something you were doing yourself mere months ago (and still occasionally do in blog posts and Twitter updates); and 2) the difference in power, in that Moxie can remove anything posted that she no longer wants out there, and the rest of us can’t. If I cross the line and reveal something she didn’t want revealed, she removes it, as she has done. I’m not trying to deliberately do that, as she seems to think, but how am I to know what she doesn’t want revealed? It’s not her identity — that’s already out there. It’s certain of her actions that she now regrets or wants to put behind her, although others are the “mistakes” that are the basis of her advice.

          I am not similarly situated, in that my profession is not that of dating and relationship blogger, and that someone I date has no idea that I am commenter Paula on one of a billion blogs out there unless I tell them. My profession is something else (you know what it is if you hang out here, but restating it won’t help the situation) that has no relation to my dating life. So there’s potential to do a lot more damage here, from people who I don’t even know their motivation for targeting me. (I don’t care if my dates know how I feel about dating/relationships/sex — they’re going to learn it soon enough — but I do care whether my professional peers do.) So, yeah, I’m worried, and even if I stopped posting here immediately, that’s going to be hanging over me. What I don’t want revealed is simple — something that contributes to revealing my identity. Not everything I’ve ever said about my views or experiences with dating/relationships/sex — just my identity.

          And to address the volume of posts…look, I like to debate and discuss ideas with people who have similar interests. Blog comments are a pretty widely accepted forum in which to do that, and many bloggers want a robust comment section in order to build community among posters and to keep people coming back to read more. Some blogs which I frequent have a thousand comments or more on a single post, where people are recognized for being frequent and/or well-respected commenters, and I’m on a listserv of people who like to debate and discuss particular issues where I sometimes get hundreds of emails a day. People have a different tolerance or threshold for this kind of stuff — I do too — but for me the solution is to just check out. If you don’t want to debate someone or have them respond to you, don’t post, or stop posting when you feel like everything has been covered. And if you think that a particular person’s posts don’t contribute to the discussion, skip over them. It’s a blog — in the next day or two, the conversation will shift elsewhere.

          But using the frequency of my posts — or even the substance of my views — as some kind of reason to shift the conversation to me personally, or to justify revealing my identity? That’s a whole different ball game, and one that is quite troubling. I have already changed the nature of my comments, thinking that having the new blog would be protection enough. But what I can’t protect against is not knowing what is going to trigger Moxie’s reaction, or cause her to change her views on outing me. She changed her view on editing Vox’s comment….just because I replied to it? Because I revealed something that was known on the Internet at the time?

          All of you should consider whether you want your identity known just because you might one day get into it with Moxie. Many of you have posted pictures and linkbacks to your own blogs, or revealed other information that would allow someone to figure out your identity. Forget whether you’re prepared to own your history and your actions — I am. That’s not what we’re talking about here. When Moxie talks “payback,” that’s potentially what’s at stake.

          • dimplz Says:

            Paula, Moxie publicly chewed me out years ago. Never did she allude to my identity. Never. I probably said way worse shit to her than you have, so I know of what I speak. Know what I did? I went back to reading, because there were other readers who were very (and still are very) bothered by what I was saying. I refrained from commenting and came back later in time. If you think it’s that hostile, that’s also your choice. You seem to think this is your blog, where if people don’t like your comments or are bothered by the fact that it takes you 20+ tries to make you point, that they should skip over it. Uh, how about you just HOLD BACK A LITTLE? Let people respond. Don’t answer EVERY SINGLE comment that addresses a point you made?

            No one has it out for you. When people talk about all the dates they go on, their personal belief systems, their line of work, their extracurricular activities. People get curious. They start to want to put a face to the name. And please tell me you didn’t post under your real first name, because then I’m really going to say that for someone who acts as a veteran to the blogosphere, you sure act like a newbie. I linked back to my blog, and if people find out who I am, it’s not because of Moxie or anyone else. It’s because I chose to comment on this site. It’s no one else’s fault but mine, and so you need to take responsibility for that. No one is forcing you to comment. There are people out there who are very curious, and if they want to find out who you are, it’s not that hard to figure out. Over 600 friends on Facebook and Moxie’s friend? She did you a favor cutting you off. Moxie has never required people to friend her in order to read or comment. I know because I have never friended Moxie on Facebook (when I had an account) and I commented almost since the beginning. At this point, you need to accept that you left bread crumbs that led people to you long before she mentioned this one activity. And what you said about what she did on her private blog was more damaging than what she mentioned about you the other day.

            • Paula Says:

              >>>Moxie has never required people to friend her in order to read or comment. I know because I have never friended Moxie on Facebook (when I had an account) and I commented almost since the beginning.

              That’s not true. She did require that for a period of time for the private blog, as late as 2009. I agree she did me a favor cutting me off — I never wanted that in the first place and thought it was a curious practice — compelling people to be your “friends”, but for a while, there was hardly anything on the public blog, and lots of dangling references to the private blog, so I thought “why not?” If I remember correctly, posting under your name was also required by TypePad, and Moxie would ban people who attempted to post under multiple profiles.

              Yes, I left bread crumbs long before — but haven’t left any recently. Yesterday, the whole loaf was put out there for any scavenging vultures to feast. And what she did to some others isn’t what she did to you, so I’m not really reassured, Dimplz.

              • dimplz Says:

                ” She did require that for a period of time for the private blog, as late as 2009. ” Ok, private blog, not public yes. Many bloggers do that. She’s hardly the first. Some require that you email them to get passwords to private posts. The way you worded it, you make it seem as if you didn’t have a choice, and I’m sorry, you who support logic so much, you know you always have a choice.

                “Yes, I left bread crumbs long before — but haven’t left any recently” You have no idea how relentless people can be. Google has cache. Unfortunately, you don’t get to choose what people store away in their memory banks about you to find out who you are. Trust me, people have been outed with way less than what you revealed.

                “And what she did to some others isn’t what she did to you” What you are alluding to was based on bloggers who fully put their business out there. They were not private blogs.

                The same way you want to retract that information about yourself, is the same thing you’re taking issue with Moxie doing now. It’s your choice to keep it private, but not everyone respects it, as both of your experiences have demonstrated.

                Do you really think there isn’t anything wrong with mentioning what you read privately on her blog?

            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              Moxie has never required people to friend her in order to read or comment.

              I never required a Facebook request. i set up a group through Facebook so that people could request that way. It was never a requirement.

              But using the frequency of my posts — or even the substance of my views — as some kind of reason to shift the conversation to me personally, or to justify revealing my identity? That’s a whole different ball game, and one that is quite troubling.

              Paula…you submitted a letter to this blog, in this recent transformation, about a guy you were talking with who admitted to screwing around with his sister. You also admitted that you’ve told men you date about this blog and your comments. So you can’t possibly be that concerned about your identity or about what people know or don’t know if you’re comfortable with the possibility that they’d read that column. You just can’t. You submitted the letter under your real name and answered all comments using that same name. You didn’t even TRY to disguise it.

              You discussed your sport of choice ON THIS BLOG. You mentioned it by name in a thread about pain tolerance. THAT’S why I referenced it. Because YOU REVEALED IT HERE.

              Blog comments are a pretty widely accepted forum in which to do that, and many bloggers want a robust comment section in order to build community among posters and to keep people coming back to read more.

              And I’ve said to you several times, I don’t care about comment numbers. You keep saying this as though you’re doing me a favor. I don’t need you to comment. In fact, I wish you wouldn’t because you are the main reason why certain people REFUSE to comment. I’ve received a multitude of emails over the past two years from people asking me to block you. I wouldn’t do it.

              If I remember correctly, posting under your name was also required by TypePad, and Moxie would ban people who attempted to post under multiple profiles.

              It was NEVER required that people write comments under their name. Not ever. YOU CHOSE TO DO THAT. Nobody would have even known your identity if you didn’t keep going on and on about how your identity had been revealed. You could have just not responded. You don’t even see how you keep digging yourself deeper. You keep trying to make this out as some sort of revenge. I’ve gotten in to it with PLENTY of people over the years. Plenty. And I’ve never outed them.So don’t even TRY to make this about me and me being vindictive.

              • Paula Says:

                >>>Paula…you submitted a letter to this blog, in this recent transformation, about a guy you were talking with who admitted to screwing around with his sister. You also admitted that you’ve told men you date about this blog and your comments. So you can’t possibly be that concerned about your identity or about what people know or don’t know if you’re comfortable with the possibility that they’d read that column. You just can’t. You submitted the letter under your real name and answered all comments using that same name. You didn’t even TRY to disguise it.

                You’re conflating two different issues and two different situations.

                The guy I was talking to who told me about doing his sister blurted it out without knowing me at all, not in confidence as part of our relationship. He was not someone who knew about the blog, and we ceased having contact shortly after that, so the chances of him connecting that to me were beyond infinitesimal. I also didn’t ever date him, so the fact that I shared this? Why would I mind someone knowing that? It’s not something I did, but something a stranger I encountered did.

                The guy I was dating who I told about this blog, I told after the new blog and I stopped revealing as much, and what I was revealing was things I told him. He knew about the guy who did his sister, because we weren’t exclusive and were both telling each other about our ongoing dating misadventures. We talked a lot and told each other a lot of things — which is one of the things I liked about him — and I wouldn’t have told him about the blog if I wasn’t prepared to have him find out things I had posted.

                Scarlet Johansson understands perfectly that there are a gazillion photos of her on the Internet , and that anyone who wants a full exposition of her dating history can find it in a couple of clicks. But that doesn’t mean she wants her nude photos hacked from her phone and posted. And there are a gazillion Paula’s out there too, so losing my anonymity using that name isn’t a relevant concern until you have someone who knows which Paula I am who has “gotten in to it with PLENTY of people over the years.” (Funny, I never have before — not online, and not in my personal life.) Or unknown people who I don’t even know have a grudge against me who are now given additional tools to “get curious.”

          • VD Joe Says:

            Baby, you let me know if you need a shoulder to cry on.

          • Angeline Says:

            Paula, I don’t have a lot of hope that this will do any good, but here goes.

            Why? I can’t tell you why Moxie took something I wrote about dieting, and used it to start demanding pictures (which since she knows who I am, she could obtain for herself anyway), calling me a liar, and giving her unqualified psychological diagnosis of me.

            It was at the point you hijacked yet another post to grind on a personal belief system, and gave your unqualified medical opinions as facts that the rest of us (some of whom have navigated weight loss without magical thinking) are just not enlightened enough to understand. It was at the point that yet another OP’s question gets ignored in the shitstorm you created. There is nothing in the OP’s question about what diet he should recommend, and how the chick got overweight isn’t his concern. How was he supposed to dance around the white elephant in the room, and say he was turned off by her weight, without really saying it, was his question.

            I have defended you on several occasions, because you have some good insights. But the ratio of insight to blather is about 1:20.

            I have little hope that any of this will sink in, because you’re one of those people who don’t listen to what’s being said. You just wait for your turn to talk. Seriously, Paula, the need to always have the last word, to not allow the other person to escape with their own opinions intact, may well be a great asset in your profession, but it is exceedingly unattractive in real life.

  36. Mike Felber Says:

    Since I was the commenter whose information was edited, I will comment. The debate between Moxie & Paula has become personal & unprofessional, with fault on both sides. If Moxie is right about personal things being shared inappropriately, that can be both taken out & the poster reprimanded on it. But baiting someone & being rude was unarguably present. If there was hypocrisy was present re: privacy expectations, that can be critiqued, but repeated & even all caps calls to post pictures & concluding that someone must be a liar is both not reasonable nor right.

    Though if the dialogue goes on at length & is about a personal dispute, then after being restrained in slamming someone here, sure, stop that exchange, & it would be big of someone to offer to have a private E-Mail exchange.

    I have agreed with many things Moxie says, but she does assume really negative & unwarranted things sometimes, & recently admitted to being borderline paranoid about some things in an answer to an OP. In MY case, I will keep all statements hear general & unidentifiable, but what I “revealed” about someone was merely that a lady appeared to have a BF: in the context of praising her for her kind affect, & how sweetly she treated me. There was zero that needed to be censored. This info was not private, something she would have zero objection to. I know & have corresponded with her, & another lady I referred to have seen at events, not just 2 of hers & is a family friend through my Sister. .
    What was deeply disturbing is when I wrote admiring things about one lady, i was compared to a specific stalker assassin! That comment was removed, & allegedly before i insisted upon it & wrote about consequences if it was not. Moxie IS big enough to do what all should do on these Blogs-overwhelmingly not censor non-abusive posts that disagree with her. My last & friendly post to her was never published, but that is OK. there is just a tendency to assume pathology when things can be healthy & even evolved. In my case i am almost sure that a sense of crazy disdain was triggered when i merely reported a kind gesture of a lady taking my hand when replying to a compliment at her performance. I assume those tendencies have been rethought. To be falsely accused as a sick or creepy person, similar examples would be being called racist, sexist, a criminal…Can be as damaging as someone BEING these things.

    Paula, there are some reasonable advice written to you above-& I add that you say many intelligent & thought provoking things. Especially consider what is mentioned re: expecting anonymity in your case. I never have sought this, & am fine as a matter of preference & principle if people know who i am & details about my life. Some folks will assume things not in evidence anyway, or be negative. Others are kind & reserve judgement from 2nd hand sources. But some conduct of your is inconsistent with an expectation to retain the privacy you prefer.

    • Trouble Says:

      I want to say something in defense of Moxie. I’ve commented under the name “Trouble” for years on this blog. Back in the days when I still blogged, Moxie had access to my private blog. She has never been indiscrete with my private information. She is also my friend on facebook (under my real name), and she and I have publicly disagreed on things more than once. Moxie has NEVER outed my personal information. I don’t believe that she ever would. However, if she has access to my personal life, it has entirely been by my choice. She has never sought that access, nor has she ever inserted herself into my life or intruded in any way that I haven’t wanted. Your claims here are ridiculous.

      Paula: You have stopped being an asset to this blog, and have lost perspective on your role here. This is not your performance venue. This is Moxie’s blog. You aren’t required to read here, and you certainly aren’t required to comment here. You are a guest here, as we all are. I remember this blog before you arrived, and it functioned just fine without you.

      YOU, PAULA, are not personally entitled to ANYTHING here. This isn’t your blog. You don’t have rights here. This isn’t a free speech zone, it’s a private blog.

      You need to get a grip on yourself and learn some goddamn self control. Not everything that is posted here is about you. You don’t need to comment on everything. You need to get a handle on your own emotions and ego and get into some kind of therapy to help you through this constant need for self-exhibitionism that you apparently have. Furthermore, you have entirely circumvented this thread (and many others), which was about someone else’s questions and issues, into an opportunity for you to grind the axe of your crusade on fat-prejudice.

      Get the fuck over yourself. None of us give a flying fart how fat you are, nor do we want to know what your reasons are for being that way. This isn’t a fat support blog. It isn’t a weight loss blog. It’s a dating blog. Stop redirecting threads away from people’s dating questions and onto your personal crusades. If you want to write about fat awareness, get your own damn blog, and go to town.

      Jesus Christ, I cannot even express how sick I am of your public hystrionics here on this thread, and elsewhere on this blog. Grow up. Get the help you need. Stop displaying your personal issues all over the internet.

      • Paula Says:

        Trouble — I didn’t want to write about fat awareness and have no need to do my own blog, certainly not about that topic. But Moxie went off the rails yesterday over a statistic (the 80% genetics/20% other factors) I quoted in a book I just read (The Compass of Pleasure by David Linden). My advice to the OP was the same as several others: don’t tell her she’s fat. If Moxie hadn’t have replied to it with the accusation that I was lying and a demand for pictures, that would have been the end of it. I didn’t redirect the thread, Moxie did.

        If someone personalizes something and individually attacks me, I’m going to respond. You would too, and have on a number of occasions here. If someone wants to debate something that I find interesting, I’ll respond to that too, like the conversation with Selena last week, which resulted in a lot of posts, but didn’t descend into personal attacks or psychoanalyzing.

        I made the mistake of revealing information that would lead to my identity. I admit that. I own that. I regret that. I was naive about that. But I haven’t done it recently, and I don’t want it done just because someone is unhappy with something I’ve posted and considers it payback, whether it’s Moxie or anyone else. In the past, Moxie has edited posts or taken them down. She didn’t do that yesterday, which is why I’m so unsettled.

        • Trouble Says:

          If you’re so unsettled, then get the fuck off this blog, and stop commenting here. That’s what any normal, sane person who felt attacked and unsettled would do. But, you just can’t stop, can you?

          • Saj Says:

            I have a bad habit of reading posts from most recent on up so haven’t gotten to the start of where this thread went off the rails.

            However a while ago during one of me and Moxie’s spars she tracked down my Facebook through the email I posted and in an email that was obviously just anger heat of the moment threatened to out me on the blog though I was confused why that would be a punishment.

            We smoothed things over though through private emails and outside of using my real name once in a comment directed at me it never went further then that but the threat did happen so yah whatever take it how you will.

            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              I used your real first name on the blog, Saj. Not full name. And I did that because when you first started commenting here, you showed an inexplicable hatred for me.For example, I wrote a post about thinking Jeremy Renner was hot, and you launched in to a tirade about how I like unavailable guys. In the beginning your feedback wasn’t constructive. It was angry. I can take critical comments. But people who appear one day and start launching angry attacks, and continue in that vein for several months, week after week, are kinda scary. I’m not saying you didn’t sometimes say things were absolutely true. You did. I learned a lot from your comments. But the level of anger that they involved scared me, because I had no idea who you were and why you seemed to hate me.

              As a blogger, I don’t have a lot of recourse should someone decide to encroach upon my life (as has happened in the past) and take their resentment off blog. That has happened, and it’s pretty fucking unsettling. But it’s part of what I do, and I choose to do this, so I accept it. But I won’t apologize for being resourceful and fighting back.

            • dimplz Says:

              Well, you must have really pissed her off, because in the old days, you would have been banned. In the early days, I was banned. I have to say that she has grown a lot and for anyone here who has ever experienced that kind of growth, it is painful. Saj, while you have your own opinions about Moxie, if you have expressed them here and we learn them, it’s because she hasn’t prevented you from doing so by editing or deleting your comments. I can’t tell you how many blogs I have come across that the MOMENT you have anything to say in contrast to what the blogger wants to hear, your comment will be deleted. Some don’t even allow comments to show unless they are approved. That allows people like Jamal, who had a comment deleted last week due to an attack on another commenter (shocker that he’s defending Paula now! /sarcasm) have their comments show unless she spots them. As long as it isn’t a direct attack on a commenter, she lets it through. I have to say I have seen many indirect insults hurled at commenters here, and she still lets them through. Bottom line, this isn’t a place to hash out your issues, whether it’s with yourself or others. If you don’t like what you see or read, you can always email her directly. This is not a blog where each post has to have a comment from any one of us to derail the conversation. This is an advice blog. If it’s not to your liking, create your own advice blog and let the comments go haywire Gawker-style. This isn’t that type of blog. Furthermore, when we look at this blog on our mobiles and see that the same point is being made by the same commenter over and over again, and not just in this post, but in multiple posts, it’s like, really? How many ways can you disagree with someone? The topic was does he tell her or doesn’t he? Does Moxie have to turn this into a strictly poll site and cut off comments because people don’t have self-control? I hope not.

      • Brad Says:

        I will join with Trouble in defending Moxie. I wasn’t bright enough to make up a pseudonym, so there you go. I also talk to her as a friend about dating and relationships.

        Over the years she has asked ‘can I use that for the blog’ when I had a particularly interesting story/situation/question. When she uses my stories for the blog, EVERY SINGLE TIME I have asked her to take out a personal detail from the story she has complied within minutes.

        EVEN when we were debating and the personal detail helped her side of the debate.

        I have also disagreed with her here many times. She has never – not even once – addressed/attacked me, only the argument I was making.

        She is a good person, a great friend , and the best dating blogger on the Internet.

  37. Crotch Rocket Says:

    I’m confused here. I never had to friend Moxie to get access to the private blog, though I rarely read it anyway, and there has never (to my knowledge) been any restriction on the public blog. I have never been required to use my real name to comment, though I think for a while I had to create an “account” on some other site (under my pseudonym) to comment. Moxie knows my real name, yet has never revealed it or anything else about me other than to point out, when relevant, that I don’t live in NYC–a trivial fact I have revealed numerous times myself. Like dimplz, she has called me out for behaving badly on several occasions using only what I had already said here, not anything else she knows (or could easily find out) about my real identity.

    So, I suggest that the problem is not on Moxie’s end.

    • Paula Says:

      As Moxie said above, she created a Facebook group to administer the private blog, which required sending a request under our real Facebook names. I can’t remember whether all members of the group could see the other members of the group, but she certainly could, and am assuming since she says she “removed” me for my protection, that others *could* see me. I also received Facebook messages from her on a couple of occasions, instead of being sent to the email I use in the site profile. I think that’s because we had a mutual friend, who I’ve had to defriend even though I still like her. I’m sure you all know that Facebook used to have a lot fewer privacy protections, and that even now, figuring out how to protect your identity amongst a bunch of different circles is still challenging.

      I’m honestly not sure about TypePad, but I think it came down to which option you chose to create an account. For a while, it was linked to an address and blog profile that had identifying information, which I removed when I was able, but after Paula had been established as my commenting identity, and Moxie told people who posted under multiple profiles that they would be blocked.

      Listen, I hope you’re all right, and that I can count on her not to reveal my identity. I also hope that no one new is taking it upon themselves to figure out who I am based on the information revealed yesterday. The thing with my sport is a new concern, since I now don’t have any control over how the league publicizes my identity (which was not an issue when I first raised it, not being a member of the league.)

      I hope this addresses your confusion, CR.

  38. Sharon Says:

    I don’t see any instances where you ask Moxie to edit it or take down her comment. That in addition to the fact that you are making such a major deal out of this and won’t let it die makes me think you want people to look you up.

    I’ve made it a practice to ignore and skip over your comments all together. I wouldn’t have even known about any of this if you hadn’t made such an effort to resucitate this conversation.

    • Paula Says:

      I made a both a private request and a reply to another comment earlier in the thread. Moxie edited her original comment, but refused to do so when someone else brought it up.

  39. Trouble Says:

    Paula: I think you need to stop commenting for a while and collect yourself.

  40. Jada Says:

    Oh my God! SHUT! UP! Just shut up shut shut up! Just shut your face!

    Just, oh my God.

    You have gone off the rails. It’s worse than the Kelly Bensimon breakdown from The Real Housewives of New York. Just stop.

    I am a long time reader and commenter on this site from way, way back. And you have all but driven me away from this site because I can’t stand that you comment on every single fucking thing over and over again. I have begged Moxie to ban you, but she has refused because she doesn’t want to create that kind of censored atmosphere. And she protected YOU from ME when I posted your real name because you were so fucking stupid as to tell people how to find you. She edited my comment and contacted me personally to tell me to go easy because she knows what I will do when I decide to bring it and knows that I will tear you to shreds.

    I can also personally testify that Moxie has a lot of integrity and will not violate someone’s privacy and out them or their personal information on the internet. Before we were friends we had a little feud of sorts, and when someone revealed personal information about me she went to bat for me even though she loathed me at the time. That incident earned my eternal respect.

    Take a second and listen. Multiple people are telling you to stop. To stop right now and to stop commenting so much altogether. Listen to them.

    • Jamal Says:

      Speaking of idiots, jada you def are one. Make threats on here and you sit here and make commens. You childish clown!

      • Saj Says:

        I guess I’ll jump on the pyschoanalyizing bandwagon even though I know she loves this shit despite claims to the contrary..

        I think the continued posting is compulsive and yelling and shouting Paula down will make her post more because there is such a need to control the flow of things even if it’s just comment threads.

        I’m a bit compulsive myself and have quite a few friends who are as well (one of my FB groups is having a big Facebook war over a game and otherwise rational people keep posting and posting and getting angrier and angrier which each one and just can’t stop) so while this blog hasn’t personally for me inspired that sort of need for a constant feedback loop I know it does happen to some people and negative feedback and this ganging up mentality does NOT work. Only Paula getting burnt out or losing personal satisfaction in the feedback she is getting will and for her any attention is good attention.

        If the posts bug you and I know I’ve gotten frustrated with it at times is just to ignore it as best as you can. Don’t reply, don’t give thumbs up or down and don’t give into the attempts to make a post off topic despite how annoyed your getting.

  41. Jamal Says:

    Bet jada has about ten different names on this blog, would make perfect sense given the dumb comments.

  42. Leah Says:

    First off, this thread is already so long that I’m not kidding myself that many people will read this post, but here goes. Even though my personality is what every guy says they want, I’ll be the first to say that, yes, I’m overweight. I went out with a guy I met on OKCupid. We had a lot in common and talked very easily, but he didn’t want a second date. I figured it was probably because of the extra weight. Thing is, the guy in question was about 5’5” and half bald. That didn’t matter to me, as I’m more attracted to personality than looks, anyway. I got tired of first dates that went nowhere, so I posted a more recent, full-body picture of me. My messages dropped to about zero. Then about five months ago, I was asked out by a guy I’d known and talked with for about seven months. We hit it off and have been dating ever since. He’s thin and doesn’t seem to care about the weight. When I told him that I’d lost over ten pounds, he was happy for me, but didn’t make a big thing about it. (And to make it even more unconventional, we met in a sports bar where we’re both regulars.) I haven’t disabled my online dating profiles because my messages were practically nonexistent. But just a couple of weeks ago, I got a very nice, personalized message from a guy with whom I appear to have a lot in common. And that’s *with* the full-body photo. So I guess my message is, no matter who you are or what you look like, don’t give up. Because you never know what’s just around the corner.

  43. MiddleAgedSingle Says:

    Sure why not? If people were more honest with each other, we’d all be better off.

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