Do You F— Down?

The objectively or even subjectively “hot” men don’t have to fuck down, and rarely do unless they’re devoid of options. Which they rarely are because they’re hot. – Moxie

Hot guys fuck down, as do high earners. – Vox

I think hot guys fuck down only when forced to because they have no other option. – Moxie

Have you never heard of beer goggles? I’m with Vox on this one. Happens all the time, especially if they’ve had anything to drink. – Paula

Right. And at 1am when the bar lights go on or when the night was getting late, they picked whomever was available. They had no other options. Making it worse in those cases because the guy had to get drunk in order to have sex with the woman. – Moxie

It’s a funny thing, with all of the talk online people have about when to have sex, no one factors female attraction into the equation. Men, bloggers like Moxie, talk about “golden vaginas” and “calling her bluff” if a woman doesn’t have sex early on, and never for a moment consider whether said woman is sexually attracted to the guy in the first place. The only people online who DO factor female attraction into the equation are PUA types, who understand that fostering sexual attraction in women is THE #1 way to get a woman into bed (whether the techniques are manipulative or not). – Vox

That’s because most people – men especially – know that the “I don’t know if I’m attracted enough to him to have sex with him” line is a load of crap. We know in minutes if we’re attracted to a guy and whether we want to sleep with him or not. If you have to go on multiple dates to build an attraction with someone or to find them attractive, you’re forcing it and the attraction doesn’t really exist. It’s merely something the woman has convinced herself exists because the truth – that that’s the best she can do – isn’t as romantic. Yes, there are those rare occasions when attraction develops over time. But they are the exception to the rule, not the rule. – Moxie

The answer, i think, is that it is assumed that women, unlike you, are not dating men they aren’t sexually attracted to in the first place. The question is usually how to find and keep such a man, not how to become attracted to someone who you initially find replusive. – DMN

Not always true, not even close. In my age group – 40+ – women routinely date and try to “land” men who are great on paper, even though they aren’t sexually attracted to them. Haven’t I seen you post about women who date men for reasons of social status over attraction? If that was you, you were right. Very difficult for us to say no to the wealthy man with an awesome job. – Vox

Men – even average ones, have options with respect to sex, more than they ever did in the past. You can’t change the reality by getting angry at it. How people want to deal with that reality is another story.- DMN

 

Here’s my opinion…rarely will a man look past an  initial lack of physical attraction when considering a woman for a relationship. I believe many women will “dig deeper” because that way they can say they have someone and one up their female peers.I tend to believe that, in most cases of attraction that comes over time, the person is forcing an attraction that doesn’t exist strictly so they can be in a relationship. Yes, in some cases, the attraction is genuine. But i think they are an exception to the rule and not the rule.

Of course, some men will forgo physical attraction just to get laid. As we discussed in another thread, men are more likely to “fuck down” than women are. The guy doesn’t have to be attracted to the woman to have sex with her. Personally, I don’t think the men with even a moderate amount of options fuck down unless they have to. I think the times they lower their standards for sex are few and far between. As DMN said, even the average men have more options now.  So even those men are less likely to have sex with a woman they don’t find attractive.

I also happen to think that women will happily “fuck up” not because of the promise of sexual satisfaction, but because having sex with a man who is considered “hot” is perceived as some sort of achievement. It’s not about the sex or even the sexual gratification. In situations like that, I think, the man who is “fucking down” is less likely to be invested in the woman’s satisfaction. So often the only take away for the woman is the notion that she pulled a hot guy and nothing more.

Thoughts?

 

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150 Responses to “Do You F— Down?”

  1. ciscokid Says:

    F___ Up, down, sideways…. Waaaay too much emphasis on a hot or ugly dude getting laid.

    Guys are horny 100% of the time… get it straight. The guy is not horny when he just got laid 5 mins ago or has been getting laid which makes woman want him more, thus the guy acting like an asshole to you because he doesn’t care. Which in turns on “the asshole effect” that women desire. A vicious cycle for what you ladies do to yourself.

    “I believe many women will “dig deeper” because that way they can say they have someone and one up their female peers.”

    There you go “one up’n” each other again. Constant competition between you ladies. You’ll be competing till your 50, wrinkled and wondering “why didn’t I find my Prince in this city… uugghh??” STOP. IT.

    Here’s some food for thought… Guys will do Monday morning quarterback after a night out… “Anybody got laid last night… (answer: Yes) …cool… how hot was she?” The girl can be Big Birtha.. it doesn’t matter.. the guy got laid…!! Hehe… sounds cruel right..? Its the truth.

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    • Dan Says:

      I feel you touched on a good point… Men and women will choose a partner based on what their peers will or do think of them. Bragging rights are a big deal for men, as archaic as it might be. Women try to make their girlfriends jealous by going home with the hottest guy they can find. It’s all about public perception now, not about mutual attraction. Those that are based on personal preferences seem to me to be the relationships that last. If only we lived in a world where we didn’t care so much about what other people think, we might not be posting on this site…if only. Stop caring, go with your own opinion. That’s the new leaf I’m turning over.

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  2. Brad Says:

    “It’s a funny thing, with all of the talk online people have about when to have sex, no one factors female attraction into the equation… never for a moment consider whether said woman is sexually attracted to the guy in the first place.”

    I think we all understand that sexual politics is:

    Money & Power vs. Youth & Beauty

    ‘Dating down’ only applies to the latter half. It doesn’t come up often for women because (even successful women) don’t like to play on the Money & Power side of the equation.

    When a guy doesn’t have adequate Money & Power women just use the phrase ‘I didn’t feel chemistry’.

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    • Andrew Says:

      Brad, given your feedback, I guess some people hate the truth. I am always mystified with gender attitudes to that equation. Men typically feel no shame in admitting liking Youth & Beauty. Women however seem to have a problem admitting liking power & money. Women have also always liked beauty and youth too, but have always deferred to Money and Power as being more desirable. The same can be said about men too, liking money and power in a woman, but being more desirous of youth and beauty.

      The curious thing is that lately, each side is stealing a page from each other’s book. Women are demanding Looks and Youth too. And guys are admiring women with money and power. Guess the cougar thing ties in here. So the equation probably needs those arrows going both ways in the middle like a chemical equation. The terrifying result of all this, is the women who demand it all, money, power, beauty and youth. I guess some men also fall into that trap too, as seen in Hollywood and celebrity culture.

      Chemistry has many dimensions to it but lately people seem particularly focused on the physical and materialistic side. I am not going to sit here and pretend to be some paragon of virtue; I too have fallen short at times. We however, all need a self checking mechanism where we stop and ask ourselves a couple of questions. What do I really want for the long term with regards to the way we communicate or shared values? If this person did not have these material things, looks, youth, money, power, fame, prestige, education etc, how happy do I feel beign around her or him?

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      • Joey Giraud Says:

        “And guys are admiring women with money and power”

        Admire? Perhaps. Desire? Not for money and power.

        For instance, I respect, perhaps even admire Madeline Albright.

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        • Saj Says:

          I’ll let you in on a female secret.

          It’s not the man they admire it’s the dollar bills floating in their head and what they want to buy with it they admire. The man they just soldier on like a trooper and do what needs to be done to get that $. These women don’t admire Hugh Hefner or Donald Trump, they just put up with them as a means to an end.

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          • Andrew Says:

            Absolutely the way women walk in. Unfortunately people get trapped in their own game. Things have a way of changing down the road.

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        • Andrew Says:

          Joey, I am glad you are in the same category as me. But I have heard guys telling me they would love to fuck Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama, Oparah Winfrey and even Barbara Walters, ugh!

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  3. Vox Says:

    I also happen to think that women will happily “fuck up” not because of the promise of sexual satisfaction, but because having sex with a man who is considered “hot” is perceived as some sort of achievement.

    True, but I think women are more likely to do brag about with men with status rather than looks. I don’t really hear women bragging about a guy looks, but I often hear women bragging about a man’s great job. That’s the achievement, banging the guy with money, great job, excellent social reputation, etc. Banging a hot guy is easy, not brag worthy.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      Banging any guy is only marginally more of an accomplishment than breathing.

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      • Vox Says:

        You are preaching to the choir.

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      • Craig Says:

        Agreed. Any woman can pretty much get laid at will, so such an accomplishment is not noteworthy. I can only imagine what that’s like. If I was a woman but still had my male-minded personality, I’d be such a raging whore that you’d have to call Guinness because world records would be set.

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        • grace Says:

          Remember, you would be a woman and if you performed like a raging whore, you’d be LABELED a whore.

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      • P. Says:

        Which is why the thought that women think it’s some sort of achievement or do it for that reason is sad if not delusional. Do it because you want to and choose to. But please don’t do it because you’re trying to prove something to your girlfriends. Unless they’re as dumb as you apparently are, they’re not going to be impressed for more than a second, and not even that long if they find out he wasn’t any good in bed. And if they’re the jealous or moralistic types, they’re just going to try to make you feel like a slut for doing it.

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  4. Selena Says:

    I’ve never “known within minutes” whether I wanted to sleep with a guy or not. Ever. I’ve known within minutes if I found a guy very good-looking, or very unattractive, but most men fall between those two extremes. I’ve also found how attractive I perceive someone goes up – or down – depending on how I enjoy their company, their personality, as I get to know them. The ‘hot’ guy may look ordinary, even unattractive if he proves himself to be an ass (“What did I ever see in him?”) and the fellow I intially thought plain becomes more attractive in my eyes because he’s fun to be with and shows how much he likes me.

    I do not believe ” that, in most cases of attraction that comes over time, the person is forcing an attraction that doesn’t exist strictly so they can be in a relationship. ” Blarney. Attraction can develop over time for those who are open to such a possibility. And dating a number of *hot* douchebags makes possibilities appealing. Might have to grow up a bit to appreciate the concept though.

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    • D Says:

      The rule I’ve often hear about women is that, while you may not know within minutes whether you will sleep with a guy, you do know whether you will not sleep with him.

      In my experience women often can point to a specific moment when they “knew,” and it’s usually something not overtly sexual. Like “when I saw how affectionate you were with your dog” or “when I saw you playing the guitar.”

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    • Andrew Says:

      Well Selena you may indeed feel that way, and it’s wonderful that you do. Given the feedback to your post, we can assume many women feel that way or would like to imagine they are wonderful like that too. And for the ones not quite there, I really hope they do aspire to be there, and are not doing that “pat me on the back, see I am fair” thing.

      Seriously. Given the ease and frequency with which women reject men fairly quickly, I think many women are still in instant gut-reaction mode. And even when a window opens up, it’s very short lived unless the guy is hot (looks, money, power, prestige). People have this crazy thing where they like to imagine themselves as wonderful, perfect and fair, but that does not jive with reality.

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      • Selena Says:

        The reality Andrew is that most men are not “hot”. Yet they manage to find women who love them anyway. Look around and you see couples everywhere of varied (subjective) attractiveness. That’s the reality.

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        • Andrew Says:

          It’s called settling, as we all do in some form or way about many things in our life. Many people would prefer to live in a mansion, but settle for an apartment. Many people would prefer that plum job but settle for a job that pays the bills. The interesting thing is that we approach most things in life completely prepared to settle.

          This dating thing though can be a stubborn issue, so we end up making poor choices. Smart choices typically come when we walk into a situation knowing we are going to settle for less than we really want in terms of curb appeal. What we often find when we do that, is that we exceed our expectations on issues that really matter.

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          • Joey Giraud Says:

            It’s not always “settling,” dude. Not even most of the time.

            What attracts a woman to a man is based on his behaviour and social status. A good looking guy usually has social status. Easy call.

            An average looking guy can “win” a girl through behaviour, but that takes time.

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            • Andrew Says:

              Agree with you on the social behavior and status thing. However some good looking guys blow it too, at times. Average guy wins her because she settles. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

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              • Angeline Says:

                or … average guy, like the average women mentioned elsewhere in this thread, try harder. Average men and women know they can’t just show up to be adored like the pretty ones. They have to work at it. And for the long haul, that’s the person you WANT, not the person you settle for.

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  5. P. Says:

    Guys are more likely to have the distinction between women they will sleep with but not consider for a relationship than women do. There are far too many women out there who don’t understand this, and think that if he wants to sleep with me, he must be really into me….when it’s really if he wants to sleep with me, he’s a guy who wants to sleep with pretty much everyone he finds attractive who will let him. (Some guys pursue that option more eagerly than others, but even for those who don’t, it’s still there.) When a guy is “fucking down,” it doesn’t mean he doesn’t find her attractive, but that she doesn’t meet his attractiveness standards for dating or introducing to his friends. Or as one of my friends so charmingly put it…”even the ugly ones can have nice tits and tight pussies.”

    There are women who sleep with hot guys for social proof, just as there are women who do anything for social proof (and guys too — you can bet a guy will sleep with a hot chick who is out of his league if he gets the opportunity). But the idea that that’s all they get out of it has not been my experience. YMMV. Douches — and bad lovers — come in every level of attractiveness, and as I said before…a number of hot guys realize that one of the ways to continue to have options is to parlay that experience into being a good lover. Some of the less attractive guys will also go out of their way to please a woman (especially if they’re smart or have been well-trained by a previous lover), but just as often, their insecurity or lack of experience keeps them focused on their own pleasure or apparently clueless about what they should be doing.

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      I think women are aware, generally, that men will date down. The problem is they don’t think the guy they’re with is doing it. I have had women say to my face, “I like you because you’re hot, but not too hot.” If you’re smiling and nodding to yourself because you’ve thought that or said that in the past, guess what? You’re not only rude but you’re delusional. There is no such thing as hot. There is only options. If the ugly troll has more options than you think he does, then he is too hot for you.

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      • P. Says:

        Wow, that is rude — it sounds like any woman who would say something like that is doing you a favor, though.

        However, I don’t think men “date” down too often, or if they are, it’s because they’ve found themselves completely without options. I think women are more likely to do that, because they don’t like to be alone, or because they’ve convinced themselves of his attractiveness for other reasons. Fucking down prevents most guys from dating down, unless they’re unable to extricate themselves from the crazy, in which case, they usually are getting what they asked for.

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        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          More than one woman has said that type of thing to me actually which adds to the irony since there are multiple women persisting in the mistaken belief that they must be my only or best option. The rudeness just makes it more likely they are being truthful. But, the real favor they are doing for me is giving me insight into how women actually think and behave, regardless of what they report here. Each one thinks she’s uniquely “dating down” to obtain some strategic advantage but, collectively their strategy defeats itself. Fortunately, I only use my powers for good.

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          • Saj Says:

            Yah too many girls make the mistake by taking a guy they think other women don’t want and then are even MORE shocked and pissed when he cheats on them.

            But this truth contradicts with your statement that hot guys don’t settle. It means guys of all attractiveness levels can be cads or good partners so dating down on purpose for a woman is a mistake. The homelier a guy is doesn’t mean the odds go up that he has a heart of gold.

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          • P. Says:

            You’ve really got me pondering this one, DMN. I said recently something to the effect that it’s an effective dating strategy to position yourself where you’re a guy’s best possible option. Looking at that cynically, were I to say that to you, you might interpret that I’m dating you because I don’t think you can do any better and accordingly you won’t leave me or will put up with more of my flaws than someone with a variety of options.

            But how I meant that was that you should only date people whose world you rock, who look at everyone else and still say “I want you,” who don’t feel like they’re settling for being with you. Where you both look at each other and think you’re dating up, because you’re not thinking of leagues or strategy or what you could get, but just thinking you’re so lucky to have this person.

            But ultimately, if you want anything more than fucking or a short-term relationship destined to end badly, you’re going to have to be with someone where these calculations all go out the window. Because if you have the need to make them, to measure someone’s likelihood of staying with you, it’s destined to fail, because there’s always going to be people who appear better than you and who appear worse than you, and not only because there are 6 billion people in the world. If you insist on always making those calculations and applying them to the people in your life, then you can’t be too surprised when they end up being applied to you — unfavorably.

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            • DrivingMeNutes Says:

              I’m not sure I understand your last argument. If you’re saying I’m not accurately stating the natural implications of what these women are doing and saying, then I beg to differ. Logic is logic whether it leads to a meaningful relationship or not.

              I agree in general with the “date down” strategy for both men and women as I’ve said before. The problem is that these women think they’re dating down when they are, in fact, not. Believe me, I KNOW when I’m with someone out of my league. It happens occasionally (thank god for women, never change).

              Women love to think their personal taste in men is soooo unique. Oh, I only like quirky guys! No other women like my boyfriend’s type! I don’t go for typical good-looks. They are objectively goodlooking, but I’m not attracted to that type. Bullshit. If you like them, someone else likes them for the same reason. And probably millions more. But, if you have an accurate and realistic view of what you bring to the table, then dating down is the way to go. Sorry if I’ve gone off topic.

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              • DrivingMeNutes Says:

                Upon further review, it appears Paula and I are the only ones ON-topic this time so I withdraw my apology.

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              • P. Says:

                You’re talking two different strategies, which may be the opposite of each other, but are both happening out there.

                So you have the women going after the really hot guys, for social proof and whatever satisfaction they get from the situation, whether it’s boosting their self-esteem or fulfilling their soft-core porn fantasies (a la Vox’s description). Or because they want to and they can, because men do fuck down. And if you meet their minimum threshold of attractiveness, they might even date down — less likely, but it can happen. So why not go for the hottest guy you can get?

                Then you have the other set of women who, because they’re less attractive, more strategic, or have less mainstream tastes, who are going after the guys that many fewer women are pursuing. Whether they’re right or wrong about no one else being interested, there are guys that are objectively and subjectively less attractive, have less game, or are more socially isolated, and the competition is much less stiff. So why not go for the guy who isn’t surrounded by women wherever he goes?

                Both approaches can work, but you have to be honest about what you bring to the table…agreed…and if you play it right, you never have to fuck down, as long as you’re with someone YOU want, regardless of whatever anybody else thinks (including him). Some might say….but what if he’s fucking down? Doesn’t matter if he’s hot and good in bed. Or what if he thinks he can’t do any better than you? Doesn’t matter if you get your chance to rock his world so much that he’s going to keep you around.

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  6. j Says:

    Have to admit I’ve done that. Reluctantly.

    (This pink typeface isn’t working for me, btw.)

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  7. Dan Says:

    I don’t bang down. I’m not a slave to my sex drive. Does it suck, at times? yeah. However, this friend of mine who works a s the VIP host at a strip club gave me good advice. Once you realize you don’t need sex it will set your free and you won’t do stupid stuff. Well, you may continue to do stupid stuff but not b/c of your sex drive.

    Well, I do agree that women fuck for different reasons when they reach 40 years and higher. Have I screwed women older than me? Yes. However, they were only five (5) years older than me and considered attractive by their peers.

    And I agree when a woman reaches that age, the allure of money and power is an aphrodisiac to her.

    I recall this one 43 year old I banged in the past. She was considered attractive by her peer group and successful. When I asked what she found interesting in me she mentioned me being an attorney. i.e power and wealth. How do I know this? Well, everytime she mentioned past relationships it always included a comment how wealthy they were. And what was funny is that, even though I do okay, I was nowhere near as wealthy as those guys. I just kept my mouth shut. Also, while I had sex with her it sounds like those guys did not.

    When it comes to having sex with women perception is reality. However, I also find they do find out later what reality is.

    One other interesting thing about attraction and money. I was listening to this guy who was talking about guys spending money on women and that it was making up for a gap in the relationship. He advised not to do it because it only masks the gap–maybe no chemistry–and that the relationship will end because of that no matter how much is spent.. Then the guy will feel taken advantaged of. I thought this was good stuff.

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    • dina Says:

      you sound like you have no game at all. your all talk and fluff. big machismo and false bravado.

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      • C Says:

        Yeah, I am actually appalled that our friend Dan is an attorney (someone seemingly educated) when he talks about banging and screwing chicks and his BFF at the strip club giving him dating advice.

        Also, while I had sex with her it sounds like those guys did not.

        They probably did…

        I feel dirty after reading this.

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        • D Says:

          Wake up to reality. A former President banged an intern in the Oval Office. A former NY governor hooked up with expensive prostitutes. You know why? Because they could. The only difference between Dan and most ambitious men is that he says things out loud.

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          • P. Says:

            >>>The only difference between Dan and most ambitious men is that he says things out loud.

            Or not under subpoena.

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          • dina Says:

            Well, the former governor was a troll, slick willy was a red neck from arkansas — the land of walmart — and dumb stupid b*tches would toss it over to him, there are countless other trolls and goblins like anthony weiner, tiger woods, the list goes on… what’s your point… a desperate girl tosses her p*ssy in a guys direction so he goes and picks it up like some dog in the street?

            LOL

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          • dina Says:

            all these guys are ugly, desperate and non-discerning… that’s why they pick up the p*ssy that some desperate girl send there way. an attractive, non-desperate guy wouldn’t pick it up. it’s only the ugly ones.

            only the ugly chicks will step to him… b/c he’s ugly too.

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            • Andrew Says:

              Are you insulting the guys or the girls? I guess a little of both. Let me let you in on a secret every sailor with two days shore leave knows. Desperate pussy f**** better than stuck-up pussy; she just tries harder and has more real emotion. I don’t do any of the two, but if I had a choice I would do desperate over stuck-up.

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              • dina Says:

                yeah, i’m insulting them both, that’s the fair thing to do.

                re: the sailor philosophy… so desperate girls, ugly girls and fat girls will do that stuff better b/c she just tries harder. yes, we all know that. that’s how they get any action at all. girls with those insecurities are always easy.

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                • Andrew Says:

                  It’s still still better being desperate and getting action, than getting far too little from being stuck-up.

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            • Angeline Says:

              Innerestin’ that you’ll use asterisks on the “dirty” words, and not on the foul sewer stench that surrounds them. Here’s a thumbs up for *more* asterisks on dina/peter/maargen/jamal posts. Pretending at grade school grammar and spelling doesn’t hide the poisonous mind behind the posts.

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        • Dan Says:

          You know, after my past experience, my game may not be up to speed. But, I do know this. It takes game to bed a desirable woman at the first meeting.

          Just because advice came from an individual working in a profession you don’t like or respect does not make it any less valid or true. The guy was right.

          Further, I used the words “bang and “screw” rather than getting all gritty and using “f**.” We are all adults here so i don’t see how the use of these terms is offensive.

          As far as this woman, ahving sex with other men–maybe so. In any event, the lady was cool and we had incredible chemistry. If I could, I would have sex with her again–a whole goddamn lot. Have a nice day.

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          • C Says:

            My dirty feeling came from the fact that you were using the terms “bang” and “screw” to describe your relationships with women. If we are all adults (especialy ones seeking long term relationships), I think we can find more mature terms than fuck, bang, and screw.

            And Dan, what reality are we supposed to wake up to exactly? The reality that powerful men have sex with interns and prostitutes? I never said that these things don’t happen. But bravo to those men for using their power so succesfully to get laid. Because they can. I can do a lot of things that I wouldn’t necessarily brag about.

            I think the reality that I am trying to expose is that if you are fucking, banging, and screwing women (as opposed to having a less harsh attitude towards sex with an individual your are genuinely interested in), you are less likely to land a meaningful long term relationship. The same goes for the women that allow you to fuck, bang and screw them.

            However, if that is the type of casual relationship you are seeking, then by all means, fuck, bang and screw away.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              I think the reality that I am trying to expose is that if you are fucking, banging, and screwing women (as opposed to having a less harsh attitude towards sex with an individual your are genuinely interested in), you are less likely to land a meaningful long term relationship.

              Maybe those women were not ones with whom he wanted a serious relationship? People have sex. They like sex. Why does everything have to be about finding a long term relationship? I’m not getting this anger directed at the men who choose to engage in casual relationships. Especially when there are just as many women who choose such relationships.

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              • C Says:

                Why do you think I am angry just because I have an opinion that is more conservative than yours?

                Also I never said that some women don’t seek that sort of relationship. He just mentioned something about being adults and insinuated that saying “bang” and “screw” were more appropriate terms than “fuck”. I disagreed with that.

                And I think he made it crystal clear that he had no interest in or respect for them. No confusion there.

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                • Dan Says:

                  Now, I will reply. I have plenty of respect for women. I go out of my way to ensure that they feel comfortable and have a good time. Plus, if you are making a judgment based on this blog then you are clueless. However, let me provide an example:

                  Recently, I wrote a post about this lady I went out with. We met online and the first night we met we had sex. Did I toss her aside? No, I drove her back to her place and I responded to her text that morning and told her it was great. I emailed her telling her we should get together again and, then, (2) two days, later, called her to ask how she is was doing. Why? So, she did not feel ashamed of what she did or think I saw her as just a lay.

                  Later on, I give her more attention by texting and emailing her and invite her out again. We go to dinner and I take her to a nice place. I open the car door and the restaurant door for her. When she tells me she needs to call her kid, I politely excuse myself and go to the bathroom so she can have privacy. I try to be honest with her. When she tells me she will be back in town I follow up.

                  And you know what happened? I get dumped by text. Maybe I got too clingy/needy but you would think with what I did before I would have gotten more rope to hang myself. Anyway, I digress. Do I think I am disrespectful towards women? Without a doubt, nope.

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                  • C Says:

                    Was this the 43 year old woman you were banging?

                    Kidding.

                    I’m sorry she dumped you via text. That’s not cool. I’m going to put on my Woman hat and say this:

                    It’s your delivery. It’s the way you describe your past encounters. Even when you described this woman that dumped you via text, you talk about it like the only reason you were nice to her and attentive was so that she would not feel ashamed for having sex with you. You didn’t want her to think you just saw her as a lay. If that’s the case, then maybe you just didn’t come across as a sincere guy (even though you were trying to be). Maybe if you had said “I called her and asked her out again. Why? Because I really wanted to see her again.”

                    As far as judgements go, what judgements am I supposed to make on a blog where people put their opinions in writing? Am I supposed to ignore everything you say because I don’t know you in person?

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                    • dan Says:

                      It’s old news and time to move on. Anyway, if I changed my approach I would not be “Dan.” Anyway, i would like to find a relationship but, in the meantime, I will bang away till Jesus comes back.

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  8. Craig Says:

    The guy doesn’t have to be attracted to the woman to have sex with her. Personally, I don’t think the men with even a moderate amount of options fuck down unless they have to. – Moxie

    The first sentence is absolutely true. The second? Not so much. Don’t confuse dating down with fucking down. Even a guy with options will fuck down on occasion. Not out of desparation, but rather out of laziness. Sometimes a guy just wants to get laid without the hassle of working for it. Without resorting to prostitution, fucking down is how men accomplish that. It’s not hard to pick out one of the least attractive and thus most insecure woman in a room and become the highlight of her day for one night. It sounds mean, and perhaps it is – but it’s the reality. And even the hottest guys do it on occasion solely because of the ease factor, as even hot guys often have to work somewhat for hot women.

    I’ve definitely fucked down on more than one occasion in my life. In each case, sex happened in short order – which was of course the point. I gotta tell you though: those less-attractive women were all incredible in bed, easy to get along with, low-drama, and had awesome personalities. I found myself really enjoying their company and sincerely did find myself wishing I could overlook my lack of physical attraction to them so I could stick around. There’s something to be said for doing the most with what you’ve got to make up for other deficiencies. There’s an old saying among men that busted chicks are like mopeds: their both fun to ride until your friends see you on one. Again, unecessarily mean – but there’s some truth to it.

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    • bill Says:

      Women fuck down all the time how do you think they get into a relationship with a man long term that leads to marriage aka RING ON YOUR FINGER!

      Not all fucking down is horrible because most of the time that is the kind of person who will give you the kind of emotional /attention you may crave that you wouldn’t get from that much much hotter mate because they view you as fucking down.

      There is different levels of fucking down, a lottttttta, some, or very little. Most people who want to be in a relationship will have to fuck down just a little to get into a relationship where the other person doesn’t treat you like crap.

      If I could go back in time 10 years ago when I was 18. I would tell myself who gives a crap about fucking up or down. Who ever your interested in and who ever is interested in you just go out and have fun. Instead of making a judgement call before the date you should have fun and see what it is all about.

      More times than not from my experience sometimes the coolest people that I should of date aren’t people you have crazy initial attraction to.

      In college there was a girl I always hung out with she was super cool and not attracted to. Fast forward 10 years later. Every time I see her. I am thinking oh crap she is pretty damn cool/a great lover too.

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      • bill Says:

        Btw the reality. 80% of long term couples. Both date down a little bit in order to be in a long term relationship. That is life.

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        • C Says:

          That doesn’t make any sense, Bill. So you are saying that both parties in the relationship are dating down? How is that possible? How can one date down if the other is simultaneaously dating down with them? Where do you get your stats?

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        • dimplz Says:

          All this signifies is that at some point we realize we are looking for a person who doesn’t exist and find a REAL person. The 80% stat is pure BS.

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          • Andrew Says:

            I get what he is saying. If you end up lower than your expectations, then that is down. It is entirely possible that both parties could be doing a second choice thing. We do have a way of quickly justifying our second and third choices so what he is saying can sound like crap. I don’t know about 80%, but he provides food for thought.

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  9. Neil Says:

    Ever the anomaly that I am on this site, I’m a man with few options because I make no money in my professional life though I’m fairly attractive and not overweight…but I’ve only had about 10 sexual partners in my entire 37 years.

    I’m a relationship type of person and have turned down “fucking down” twice in the last six months (women introduced to me by my well-meaning friends..having been explained to these women that I haven’t had sex in a couple of years).

    I just won’t do it. If I’m not attracted to you, I’d rather go home and have a good night’s sleep than have awkward sex with a stranger and then have those memories forever (or until Alzheimer’s sets in anyway).

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    • D Says:

      Different strokes. Some of my fondest memories are one-night stands, though I don’t feel like I was fucking down.

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    • Craig Says:

      That’s why you never get laid Neil. You’re too fooking picky. If you’re not making some coin, exactly what level of women do you think you’re going to attract knowing the things they look for in a dude? I’m a big city lawyer, the supposed cream of the crop as far as women are concerned, and even I took whatever I could get sometimes. Awkward sex with a stranger accounts for a sizeable portion of my lifetime sexual activity. Sometimes those awkward strangers become your girlfriend.

      If you’ve only slept with 10 women in almost 40 years of being single and go years without sex, me thinks that your standards are set above your means. The women you reject because you think you’d be fucking down are likely in reality the best you can do. Water tends to seek its own level.

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      • C Says:

        Maybe Neil isn’t as worried about getting laid as you are. Maybe his point was that he would be more satisfied with a woman that he is genuinely interested in than a string of awkward one night stands. Just because you have had more sex than Neil does not mean you are a more desireable partner. Also, I didn’t read anywhere in his post that he was getting rejected.

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        • Craig Says:

          Spoken like a woman. If you really believe that then I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale that I’d like to show you. The dude clearly laments that though he’s fairly attractive and not overweight, he’s only had about 10 sexual partners in his 37 years. Those are not the words of someone who isn’t worried about getting laid enough.

          Nowhere did I insinuate that just because I have had more sex than Neil means that I am a more desireable partner. My point was if you want to increase your opportunities, you sometimes have to lower your aim. Lastly, he didn’t need to write in his post he was getting rejected. It’s a given. All men get rejected quite regularly. It comes with the territory.

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          • C Says:

            I’ll take that as a compliment.

            I didn’t read it as woeful lamenting at all. It is funny to me that you so grossly misinterpreted his point.

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          • Andrew Says:

            With testosterone making men do fairly irrational things, women should have the advantage. Unfortunately women tend to hamstring themselves, thus giving men the advantage. Here are three ways women hamstring themselves.

            1. Men know they are going to settle, and are prepared to settle. Women unfortunately delude themselves about this too long. This leads to lonliness and by the time they settle they are not adept at it enough to make the best settling decision.

            2. Men approach, women refuse to approach. One would imagine the pickier person would do the approaching but it’s the other way around. If all women started approaching, the stigma would end and the outcomes would be no different from men approaching. Women would have seriously increased their power by doing this.

            3. Women do too much competing against each other. Women are hardwired to assume the unattainable or diificult to attain is more desiriable. This was probably functional at some point in history, but it’s a relic that should be burned. When a man walks into a club, he looks for the most available women, and he is hard wired to do that because through history doing the opposite got him killed. A woman looks for the man most desired by the other women.

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        • Saj Says:

          Craig was no better then Dan and would refer to women on a regular bases by the endearing term “ass”. And there is the rub. I have this JOB so I’m better then you. Men who use their JOB to define their desirability and women using a man’s job to define their desirability are doing it wrong.

          Glad getting engaged has softened the terms he uses but racketing sex numbers with women who don’t exactly get to you reeks with as much low self esteem as a woman having sex with guys to define her attractive worth.

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          • D Says:

            Meh. I’ve had sex with 1-2 women that I consider below my level. It wasn’t about self esteem. It was about wanting to have sex. However, I feel slightly regretful about both because they wanted a relationship and I didn’t.

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          • Craig Says:

            I still use the term “ass” when referring to women. Getting hitched has softned me up a bit perhaps, but not my terminology. It’s how many men actually talk. When I post on here I am just presenting the perspective of how some men actually are instead of the romanticized bullshit women are often fed in the media, so I guess you have to take the good with the bad. I would never be so crass as to discuss my actual sex numbers as you seem to infer. In any case, I can assure that such numbers are not an indication of my self-esteem – but rather my high sex drive.

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    • nathan Says:

      I’m with Neil. In fact, my approach and experience are almost the same as his. I haven’t had as long a gap as he has had in terms of sex, but I have no interest in casual sex, and really don’t give a damn if I’m “not getting laid” all the time.

      Also, I prefer to have fewer options. In fact, I’m quite happy being more picky because although I spend more time being single, I have a hell of a lot less drama and unnecessary heartbreak to deal with.

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      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        My perspective and priorities (and that of many/most men) are quite different from yours, but as long as you’re truly happy inside with the results, that’s all that counts.

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  10. Saj Says:

    I believe for women there is a difference between attraction (as in he does physically doesn’t gross me out) and sexual attraction (the urge to touch him, kiss him, enjoy kissing him ect)

    I went out with a guy who to me looked fine (Looked a lot like a younger version of Scott Bakula) Yet when we actually started making out there was NOTHING there. It just felt wrong and there was nothing wrong with him physically or even anything in this technique I could pin point. Then another guy who was horrible looking could turn me on in the craziest ways even though it hurt to look at him.

    So when I met my husband I’m sitting there looking at him critically. Ok he looks good, he’s my type, good body and personality but until I kiss him I just don’t know if that chemistry is going to be there so I remained skeptical.

    Men I think have a base line they wont cross which is probably lower then we think. That’s a big difference between who they just have sex with and who they have relationships with. Not every woman wants to have a relationship with every guy she agrees to go on a date with. Women DO take a longer time figuring out if she’s attracted to someone and the within minutes rule Moxie applies doesn’t apply to all of us. I know NO right away (however there was that one exception) but it takes a while to know YES.

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    • Craig Says:

      Men definitely have a basline they will not go below no matter what. While we do generally subscribe to the motto “Any port in a storm”, there are some chicks so heinous that even if they were the last woman on Earth, we’d first demand a recount and then choose celebacy. You are also correct that it’s a bar set lower than most women would think – especially if we’ve been drinking.

      I agree with Saj in that I do think that attraction is more complicated for women – it’s why I believe women have a harder time finding someone. Like her, I have seen female friends turn down great guys just because they didn’t like the kissing. That of course would never be an sole excluding factor from a man’s perspective. A woman who sucks at kissing easily mitigates that shortcoming by alternatively being smoking hot and sucking a mean cock.

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  11. Cricri Says:

    So many things wrong with that post!

    Believing in magical attraction does seem a bit childish at times. You can be attractive but if your personality is harsh, no one will be “attracted to” you other than for superficial reasons. And for that attraction to develop, there needs to be time spent together, it is not established right away. Even men who find you attractive and want to have sex with you will bail at some point when they’re done indulging your crazy. The same for women, actually women leave men, hot or not, all the time when the realtionship is not satisfying. But we’re talking relationship here. The post is comparing apples and oranges by putting men’s sex habits next to women’s dating habits, these are 2 different things. I’ll actually say that women have more options than men, up/down/middle just because they’re women; they simply have to make themselves accomodating to their targets. Men on the other hand can only go down and middle, and exceptionally up (factors such as money and power might play as boosters in that case). So trying to paint all women as catty and trying to one up each other is really a limited perception.

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    • Saj Says:

      Yah I’m confused on who we are trying to compete with and impress? Does this only apply to girls who are surrounded by frenemies that gives them a tingle of satisfaction to see them fail or be envious?

      I don’t have a group of female friends who we are always subtly trying to put down or feel superior to. I know they exist and it seems like those relationships are more self esteem killing then enjoyable.

      If I were dating someone and thinking in the back of my head that OMG marcy is going to be so impressed/jealous by his looks and job she’ll just die. No I don’t want Marcy pining for my guy on the downlow! I want Marcy to not like him!

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      • Cricri Says:

        Indeed, I’m way too concerned about finding someone I actually like and that gets me and that I get to worry about what my friends are thinking of the guy. My goal is to marry and have children, not impress my friends at brunch or at cocktails. It’s already enough difficult as it is. Last time I witnessed that type of competition was in high school and I didn’t fall for it when we were all dating for fun, won’t fall for it when marriage is the goal. I don’t know, maybe I don’t have competitive friendships, I usually don’t like competing for silly stuff, especially when it is about something someone else possesses, I mean, it is that guy’s beauty/power/money, what about me??? So immature!

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  12. C Says:

    I read through this post and all the comments and I still can’t figure out why this is a legitimate conversation for people who might actually be interested in a relationship with another human being. If you are only interested in “fucking” who cares whether you “fuck up” or “fuck down”? Who cares whether the chick you “screwed” was or was not “banging” some other guy with more or less money than you?

    I don’t even understand what the sides are in this argument. Are we even talking about relationships anymore? I swear, I thought this blog was about how to NOT be single. Guess I was mistaken. Every time I turn around, you guys/gals are trivializing all the intricacies of sex and what motivates us to do it.

    Hint: we are mammals.

    The title of your blog is very appropriate today.

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    • P. Says:

      I think you’re mostly right, C…although I do think it’s important for women to realize that if he’s fucking down, he’s never going to consider you relationship material. If you’re patting yourself on the back for casually sleeping with a really hot guy, don’t even try to question whether he really likes you or is going to get serious, because 99 times out of 100, he’s not. (That one guy is the situation where Craig was talking about where the guy is won over by “incredible in bed, easy to get along with, low-drama, and awesome personalit[y]” and found himself able to stick around, but that’s not typical.)

      If you want a relationship, find the guy who considers you “really hot.”

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      • C Says:

        I totally see where you are coming from…but I just want to tweak your last sentence a little:

        If you want a relationship, take the focus off of sex and find a guy who is interested in you for all the other reasons that make a relationship last (then the sex part is really fun and easy, swear).

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      • Craig Says:

        If you’re patting yourself on the back for casually sleeping with a really hot guy, don’t even try to question whether he really likes you or is going to get serious, because 99 times out of 100, he’s not. (That one guy is the situation where Craig was talking about where the guy is won over by “incredible in bed, easy to get along with, low-drama, and awesome personalit[y]” and found himself able to stick around, but that’s not typical.)

        You misread what I wrote. I said that even with all those great traits I still didn’t stick around despite my best efforts because of the lack of physical attraction. Didn’t matter how great the woman’s personality was – if she wasn’t hot enough, I was still a goner. The point was to underscore that a man who will not date down, can and will fuck down, and thus women should be careful not to confuse the two. So I am indeed typical.

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        • P. Says:

          And one guy out of 100 is able to overcome that and stick around, but you’re typical of the 99 others who can’t.

          I absolutely agree with you about the distinction between dating and fucking down, and said just that in my response above to DMN. Like he said, no woman likes to think it’s happening to her, which is why there is so much confusion.

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          • Craig Says:

            And one guy out of 100 is able to overcome that and stick around, but you’re typical of the 99 others who can’t.

            You give us males too much credit. I highly doubt the odds are even that good. You’d realistically probably need to add a couple of zeros to that 100.

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            • P. Says:

              If you’re talking about the “demand a recount and then choose celibacy” women, then you’re right, but like you said, that bar is set pretty low. I think guys are more squeamish about that because they don’t want to get into situations where they can’t perform, but I’ve also seen a number of guys in relationships with women they’re no longer attracted to (if they ever were) who decide to make it work for a variety of reasons, whether it’s the kids, the finances, or the hassle of starting over. And if they can use her being a good person/low-maintenance/whatever to justify that decision, then there’s even more reason not to rock the boat.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          I think being low maintenance can make up for a lot. It can’t or usually doesn’t compensate for physical attraction. But a woman who is moderately attractive becomes more attractive to a man if she’s easy to be around.

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          • Craig Says:

            Agreed on all counts. Moderately attractive combined with easy to be around can get a woman over the hump with all but the pickiest, most shallow guys. If this wasn’t true, many more women would be single in the world than there are now as there aren’t a lot of supermodels to go around. The key words being moderately attractive. There still has to be some physical attraction.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      For someone who found this post so irrelevant, you sure have a lot to say.

      Like DMN said:

      You can’t change the reality by getting angry at it. How people want to deal with that reality is another story.

      This seems to be a hot button topic for you. Why?

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      • C Says:

        I promise I am not angry (bored at work, yes). Did I say it was irrelavent?

        I think I just said it was not a legitimate conversation for people interested in long term relationships, which is the audience that I thought this blog was geared toward. I say this because people seeking long term relationships are probably not just fucking one another. If they are, then they are not going to get too far most of the time.

        Maybe I was wrong and this was not a post for people seeking LTRs.

        Also, I find the casual attitude toward “fucking” to be a bit short-sighted. I can honestly say that I used to [want to] think differently, but I guess my views on sex and relationships have changed a bit with time and experience.

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        • Selena Says:

          I also think the whole fucking up or down discussion is for the casual sex mindset. And if one is in casual sex mode, does it even matter? You know the ‘fling’ isn’t going to last very long anyway, so why would the looks of who you are fucking matter much?

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        • Vox Says:

          Well, the conversation was pulled out of context. The conversation took a turn after I explained why I don’t sleep with men early on when dating. (I’m not extreme, but I don’t want to sleep with men on the 2nd or 3rd date for a variety of reasons.) In my view that is casual sex, and if you are going to go down that road, just be shallow about it. And the conversation went on from there in a typical manner.

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  13. Mike Felber Says:

    Many ladies say the same Saj & Selena, & though less often for men, attraction can develop more over time as Bill notes. The interesting thing about Saj is showing how even immediate attraction can exists, but not visually, based upon sexual interaction, likely in part pheromones.

    While options have increased for men, many still have trouble finding a lover at all-at least one who one has any significant attraction to. I think this applies to woman to, but more about someone she likes & wants to have a LTR with. The old expression “Life is a banquet, & most Poor Bastards are starving”, especially applies to sexual satisfaction for tons of folks. This is in part due to foolish & destructive societal standards & habits.

    Lastly, if folks are largely dating for status, power, ego, &/or competition, including guys caring whether their friends will find their mate hot, that childish attitude is likely to backfire in many ways & limit their potential for true happiness. That is a “hole your Soul” type of materialism & vanity antithetical to be the best person you can, & valuing & loving another.

    And bad karma tends to leak into other aspects of life.

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  14. dina Says:

    Any attractive self respecting woman would never be with an ugly man, a man she finds unattractive, just because he may have status or money.

    Now, if a woman has feelings of inferiority, daddy issues, comes from poverty, then she’ll lower herself and tell herself the man is handsome so that she can justify her pathetic actions and behavior.

    Regarding Moxie’s statement: We know in minutes if we’re attracted to a guy and whether we want to sleep with him or not. If you have to go on multiple dates to build an attraction with someone or to find them attractive, you’re forcing it and the attraction doesn’t really exist. It’s merely something the woman has convinced herself exists because the truth – that that’s the best she can do – isn’t as romantic. Yes, there are those rare occasions when attraction develops over time. But they are the exception to the rule, not the rule.

    Moxie, I find you sometimes to be very pessimistic and miserable. Many of us are jaded, but you shine no light at all on the dating scene.

    First, not every woman who meets a guy for the first time thinks instantly about having sex with him or not. Second, going out with a guy a few times is not forcing anything… sleeping with a guy as soon as you meet him is forcing something. Some attraction has to be there for the woman to accept a date, but it may take a while for the chemistry and physical excitement to build. And lastly, I agree some women will try and convince themselves of things because that’s the “best she could do” as you put it. Or maybe, that’s the best she could find at the time… but what you fail to acknowledge is that men do it too.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Moxie, I find you sometimes to be very pessimistic and miserable. Many of us are jaded, but you shine no light at all on the dating scene.

      Why? Because I don’t try and change men and accept the realities of certain situations? If anything, that’s made me a lot happier and worked in my favor. Getting pissed off or in a snit doesn’t do anybody any good. I’m not going to critique men just because that will make you or any other woman feel better.

      but it may take a while for the chemistry and physical excitement to build.
      That’s psychological, not physical or even emotional. What the person is usually doing in those cases is trying to get past whatever psychological issues/barriers they have with being with that person. They’re either worried what people will think or fear that that person is the best they can do. So they make up an excuse, like looking beyond the superficial, because that will make them seem more substantive.

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      • Cricri Says:

        Wow, Moxie, have you heard about building emotional intimacy? Isn’t getting past psychological barriers growing up?
        I thought all the advice we’re supposedly receiving here and all your comments were about bringing women and men to overcome the psychological and emotional barriers they’ve building up aka baggage? Now, you’re actually saying that all this doesn’t matter and is actually wrong since it would amount to forcing ourselves. So which is it?

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        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “have you heard about building emotional intimacy?” Emotional intimacy does not create sexual attraction; that is merely a requirement many women (and a few men) have decided they need to me to allow themselves to follow through on an attraction they already had.

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          • C Says:

            You probably don’t believe in foreplay either. It’s just another requirement women decided they needed in order to get off.

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          • Selena Says:

            I don’t need emotional intimacy to follow through on an attraction I already have. But I’ve experienced attraction diminishing considerably in an existing relationship when the emotional intimacy was lacking.

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          • Cricri Says:

            You clearly know nothing of how women work. Most men are not hot as someone said before. I spent the whole summer with a guy working on a project. He wasn’t what I could say attractive from the get go, maybe had the general features I look for like height, hair and education, which really could be anybody on the face of earth, even some extra pounds and since he was a lawyer he would make those categorical declarations I thought were just dumb. After spending 6 weeks having lunch together and sharing commute time, I found him much more interesting since I had the time to get his sense of humor and what his deal was, I was much more attracted to him by then. Didn’t work out because though he was very average looking, he was always going for the hottest women, go figure.
            So yeah, as you always say, men and women have different strategy and inner workings so dismissing it seems pretty ignorant.

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            • ollie Says:

              It didn’t work out because he wasn’t attracted to you. The categorical declarations, as you call them, are the reasons you found him attractive. When he rejected you he went back to being chubby and average.

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              • Cricri Says:

                Well aren’t you a smart cookie? You couldn’t be more wrong. I actually still like him and we are very good friends now. He might have been “chubby and average” but he is funny guy with lots of charisma and a great story teller, in the end an all around nice guy, just mid-twenties guy “victim” of his hormones and a deluded sense of league. He wasn’t attracted to me and there is nothing wrong with that, I think he was more interested in casual stuff from the grapevine whispers I gathered later so maybe he did me a favor. Obviously if I was able to see beyond his less attractive physical traits, it’s because I was and still am looking for something substantial, which is not necessarily what any 27yo guy wants. I get that.

                Also you’re quite wrong on the “categorical declarations”. Being douchey as a technique is quite dumb and attractive only to people with serious issues and not all women want to go for bad boys who will mistreat them. That guy actually helped me several times and had some protective manners that I really appreciated ( even though they were not specific to me) which is another factor that helped with attraction. I will say that experience made me less shallow since you actually don’t know people until you spent a considerable amount of time with them and the fact that sex wasn’t even on the table removed any cloud in the judgement. I still see him and think is a great guy. By the time he is ready to settle he will certainly marry someone average like himself ( like me, who knows).

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      • Selena Says:

        That whole last paragraph may be true of you, but it is not true of all women. Saj hit on it when she described the difference between finding someone physically attractive and being sexually attracted to someone. One can find someone subjectively good-looking, but still “not for me”. And since most of the populace is not exceptionally good-looking, it stands to reason people are finding mates who are sexually attractive to them regardless of how others would rate their looks – which is also completely subjective.

        There definetly IS a mental and emotional component to attraction which is why love grows, and is not instantaneous despite the myth of “love at first sight”. Allowing oneself to get to know someone and see what develops is not an excuse that will make them seem more substantive – it is BEING substantive.

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      • dina Says:

        I think this blog is used as Moxie’s personal bitching session for when she feels like venting her anger and frustration with dating and for justifying her actions and behavior when it comes to dating and trying to convince other women to follow in her footsteps.

        I’ve been reading Moxie’s blog for a while now, and while I believe the content is usually very good, I believe she sometimes spews her own negative opinions, experiences and values on this forum and tries to encourage other women to adopt her ways and viewpoints. I think the blow job classes you were promoting were a real joke and send a message (your message) that a woman should learn how to give blow jobs so she could get and please a man. How misogynistic is that? How come you never scheduled a cunnilingus teaching class? Doesn’t pleasing your partner go both ways? Having classes like that at all are wrong and send the wrong message, they just promote promiscuity and not finding a true and meaningful relationship.

        Anyway Moxie, when you say… you don’t try and change men and accept the realities of certain situations and that it’s made you a lot happier and worked in your favor — I have no idea what you’re talking about… it sounds like you’ve given up on finding a meaningful relationship and have consigned yourself to being there for someone else’s pleasure… How do you get by eating crumbs? And then you go on to say that you don’t want to get pissed — but you are pissed. It comes across in your writing. And saying you don’t want to critique men is silly when you are willing to critique women… now how is that being objective? It’s not, it’s subjective. I think you need to take a look at yourself and what exactly it is your bitching about.

        There are plenty of loose girls to go around… that’s who these guys are hooking up with and bragging about. If I was a guy I’d be ashamed to admit it. And the only reason these guys hook up with these girls in the first place is because they have no game, never had it, and now they’re trying to learn it… they should have learned that stuff while they were in school and if they hadn’t learned it by then, you can’t have a late start… so they will continue to play themselves out with all these cheap women and their looks will fade (when most of them don’t look so hot to begin with) and when they begin to realize that women aren’t responding to them then, BAM!!!, that’s when they will realize they should have outgrown their man whore insecure ways years earlier. When they go looking for a nice girl they may not find one. After all, why would a nice girl want a guy who’s looks have faded and been all over town with a bunch of cheap women. His desperate actions clearly demonstrate he wasn’t of the caliber to find a quality girl.

        Anyway, getting back to your last statement about the psychological… when I stated it may take a while for the chemistry and physical excitement to build, you responded, “That’s psychological, not physical or even emotional. What the person is usually doing is trying to get past whatever psychological issues/barriers they have with being with that person. They’re either worried what people will think or fear that that person is the best they can do. So they make up an excuse, like looking beyond the superficial, because that will make them seem more substantive.” Well, that may be — but it can also be that the person is a good person, but that spark just hasn’t ignited yet. Maybe it’s just a small flicker at the moment.

        Moxie, just try to stop being so pessimistic all the time. And stop giving these guys a free pass for their immature behavior all the time. Tx.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          I think the blow job classes you were promoting were a real joke and send a message (your message) that a woman should learn how to give blow jobs so she could get and please a man. How misogynistic is that? How come you never scheduled a cunnilingus teaching class?

          We scheduled many of them. Men wouldn’t sign up because they didn’t want to be in a room with other men learning how to go down on women. They wouldn’t even do it via Teleclass. You want to shell out $500 to cover studio rental and instructor fees? As far as the mysoginistic accusation…please. That’s the battle cry for women who look for reasons not to give head or have sex because they’re insecure and resentful. Those are also the women who get dropped like hot rocks.

          I loved our BJ classes because they were the exact opposite of how you described them.

          it sounds like you’ve given up on finding a meaningful relationship and have consigned yourself to being there for someone else’s pleasure

          Exactly the opposite. Like I said a few days ago. I’m really happy with my situation. What you think or need to believe is unimportant to me.

          And the only reason these guys hook up with these girls in the first place is because they have no game, never had it, and now they’re trying to learn it…

          These men hook up and get in to relationships with many of these women because the women offer simplicity. Many of the women aren’t weighed down by emotional baggage and some fear of being used because they were used before.

          Cheap? Loose? Step out of the 50’s, Dina. You and women like you have to believe that any woman who doesn’t ascribe to your approach has to be getting pumped and dumped or eating crumbs, etc. It’s intra-gender competition again. “Oh, I’m SO MUCH MORE DISCERNING than her! At least I DON’T HAVE TO do that. I feel SO BAD FOR WOMEN like that.” You have to put other women down. That way you can feel better about the fact that you’re alone and miserable.

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          • dina Says:

            these men hook up and get into sexual relationships… that’s it… not a real relationship, just a sexual one. yeah, that’s right, sure… “make it real simple”… for the guy, be there, bend over, and do whatever it is thinking you’re going to get a relationship out of it… isn’t that what you say women are always doing… you’re a contradiction Moxie.

            and why does someone always have to mention what year it is when you don’t agree with them? LOL. yeah, cheap… loose… that’s right i said it, why do those words bother you? you believe all women should ascribe to your approach that way you can justify your actions and behavior. that’s the strength in numbers approach right? yeah, i wonder what all those girls are complaining about after being with a guy and then getting dumped after. you’re a complete contradiction Moxie. today you have one opinion, and tomorrow you’ll have the opposite opinion.

            you feel the only way a girl can get a guy is if she keeps just giving into him. well obviously that doesn’t work now does it? get your story straight and stick with it, okay? thanks.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              you believe all women should ascribe to your approach that way you can justify your actions and behavior.

              If by “your actions and behavior” you mean, be in a relationship with a guy they like, see consistently and frequently, who treats them well, that they enjoy and have great sex with? Then yes. That’s exactly what I’m suggesting. You’re speaking as though you even know what goes on in my life. That’s what is so crazy about your accusations. The only explanation for your irrational outbursts is that you choose to believe something because that something makes you feel better about being alone. That’s it.

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              • dina Says:

                moxie, you’re full of contradictions.

                yes, i agree, the goal is to be in a healthy relationship.

                but, every time i read your blog you sound pissed off and miserable and i rarely hear you say anything positive.

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                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  Speaking of pissed off and miserable, remember this comment that you wrote?

                  i agree. most people who are overweight insist on dating thinner people. it’s like they have to prove to themselves and everyone else that just because they are overweight doesn’t mean they have to settle for overweight and can get a thinner person. i find some overweight people to have the biggest chip on their shoulder. they resent being overweight and resent thinner people. ever notice when an overweight person wants to pass by you and the space is narrow they expect YOU TO MOVE OVER — as if you are in the way. Get real FAT people. YOU are in your own way… and everyone else’s.

                  Yeah. You’re all puppy dogs and rainbows.

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                  • dina Says:

                    LOL, yeah, Moxie, i remember it. and what of it?

                    i think it’s great how you had to dig into the archives and find something to take issue with.

                    are you fat too? what are you taking issue with? that fat people act miserable and resent thinner people? LOL

                    what is your point?

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            • Dimplz Says:

              Is this what it feels like to hang with the Baptists?

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              • P. Says:

                If you’re talking an always-shifting set of moralistic standards by which you can judge other women (somehow the guys always escape notice or get extra-special forgiveness points) and living in a world where instantaneous on-the-fly repentance is permitted to overcome all the hypocrisy that comes before it….then, yes.

                It’s like a never ending set of superior dances without the sense of irony that Dana Carvey brings to the table. Except Baptists don’t believe in dancing, which compounds the irony.

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          • dina Says:

            Moxie wrote: “Oh, I’m SO MUCH MORE DISCERNING than her! At least I DON’T HAVE TO do that. I feel SO BAD FOR WOMEN like that.” You have to put other women down. That way you can feel better about the fact that you’re alone and miserable.

            Moxie, this is your blog, you’re the one who is always writing these things putting women down. The intra-gender competition is COMING FROM YOU. I don’t speak about other women, you do. You’re the one who sounds alone and miserable. You’re the one who is bitching and complaining all the time. You’re the one who takes pictures of herself on the kitchen floor.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              I don’t speak about other women, you do.

              Like when you call them dumb bitches, loose and cheap? Okay. I’ve never called women those things. I may criticize women (and men) but I don’t denigrate them with terms like that.

              You’re the one who takes pictures of herself on the kitchen floor.

              You’ve officially hit crazy town.

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              • dina Says:

                ok moxie, just keep contradicting yourself and back peddle whenever you feel the need.

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                • ciscokid Says:

                  ^——This is why women hate each other.. hehe… I’ll take a llittle butter on that popcorn please w/ some raisinets…. Thx!

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      • trouble Says:

        First, not every woman who meets a guy for the first time thinks instantly about having sex with him or not.

        Bullshit. This may be true for you, but I doubt it. However, it’s never been true for me. I’ve instantly thought about having sex with every single guy I’ve ever dated. I didn’t have sex with all of them, and some of them weren’t people I wanted to have sex with (which was ultimately the kiss of death), but the thought always did cross my mind, and it probably always will. Even now, I could give you a list of which of my male associates are do-able. I wouldn’t sleep with any of them, I’m in a committed relationship, but I know which ones I’m sexually attracted to, and which ones I probably never will be.

        I think most women do.

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        • Andrew Says:

          Thanks for saying it. If a guy says it, then women balk. Too many women like to pretend this is not true given their penchant for wasting the time of guys, using them as dumping grounds for their frustrations.

          They meet a guy; know he is not f***able material. They don’t have anything else going on, so the have him waste his time and money taking them on a date or worse yet a series of dates. They use him as a shrink to listen to them go on endlessly with their whining about everything. And they justify it all by telling themselves this bullshit about having not made up their mind whether he is fuckable from the beginning. I guess they have to do that. People can’t stand seeing themselves as full of shit.

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          • P. Says:

            Not all you guys are the same, as evidenced by the range of perspectives in this discussion. Many are perfectly happy to waste the time of women by sleeping with ones with whom they know they’ll never be in a relationship, while others say they will only sleep with the ones they’re serious about. Even with the male sex drive and the fact you all have testosterone surging through your veins, you don’t all approach women in the same way: there’s a wide range between “will set Guinness world records for sex partners” and “10 partners in 37 years.”

            So why is there this expectation that all women are the same way? Some might develop sexual attraction instantaneously, in the first 10 minutes, and act on it, whether it’s sleeping with someone immediately and casually. Or even if they don’t act on it, they file it away and use it as a guide about who to date. With other women, it takes more time, either because they base their attraction on factors other than the sexual and physical, or if someone isn’t a 10, it just takes longer to develop. Or, if their values don’t permit them to sleep with someone right away, they may ignore or suppress the sexual attraction. With yet others, alcohol, loneliness, or a long period of celibacy may escalate things faster than they would otherwise develop, or delude people into thinking sufficient attraction exists.

            Sure, some of them do it to waste somebody’s time or take advantage of them, but I think the number of women who do that is vastly eclipsed by the number of men who will waste the time of a woman who wants a relationship by only sleeping with her without ever intending to progress in the relationship direction.

            Basically, some people are more self-aware than others in terms of knowing what they want and acting on it. Some people are more above-board/direct/honest in their dealings with other people. And some people’s hormones/sex drive/moral values play a significant vs. lesser role in guiding their actions. We’re just not all the same — not even close, and certainly not by gender.

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          • Selena Says:

            What I find ironic (and full of shit) is the notion that if women find a guy attractive within minutes, they are expected to keep finding him attractive after dates 1,2,3. Especially if they slept with him. Otherwise they are just using him for free meals/entertainment. While at the same time, if awoman wants sexual monogamy after a month of sleeping with the guy she found so attractive…she is manipulative!, trying to “lock him in”!, preventing him from exploring his options! The hypocrisy of this amazes me.

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            • trouble Says:

              Indeed. I will know within minutes (nay, seconds) whether a guy is fuckable or not, but he can definitely screw that status up with me by offending in some way, and immediately be reclassified as permanently untouchable.

              I watched a guy stiff a waiter on the check once and never dated him again, for instance (plus, I left a ten spot on the table to make up the difference to the waiter).

              It’s the little things that usually screw it up for a guy.

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  15. D Says:

    I don’t think the men with even a moderate amount of options fuck down unless they have to.

    Some guys, maybe, but a lot will. Just this weekend I was out bar-hopping with a friend. He’s young, tall and very handsome. He hooked up with a very beautiful girl. That said, he has a reputation for having low standards, and he would not have hooked up with this particular girl had I not almost forcibly introduced them.

    Lots of guys, even good-looking guys, don’t realize they have a lot of options because they’re scared to death to approach women and don’t know how to escalate. I know another guy who’s very handsome, super smart (PhD level physicist), very interesting and has a great job, but who nonetheless complains he’s terrible with women.

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  16. Miz Adventures Says:

    OMG. I only fuck up.

    I will not have sex with an ugly guy…or at least, an ugly-to-me guy. If you could get in my mind and see pictures of the guys one after another, you’d be blown away by the hotness. Someone above said something about women liking status more than looks. Ummm…not the case. The hottest guy I’ve been with was a recent college grad who lived at home with his parents. But, damn…that boy and I had chemistry that was unrivaled.

    I must also note – that although I say I fuck up, I truly do not believe that any guy I’ve been with has fucked down. After all, I’m not a troll. LOL

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      We don’t doubt that you fuck up on a regular basis.

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    • dina Says:

      Maybe it’s the ugly guys who keep telling themselves that women will choose status over looks, because status and money is all they have.

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    • Craig Says:

      Of course you only fuck up. You’re a chick, so you can do that because your target market is not picky when it comes to banging you casually a few times before moving on. So why not swing for the fences on a one-nighter when you’re a woman? But think about it: – every time a woman fucks up, the guy she’s with is simutaneously fucking down. So congrats on only fucking up, but as Crotch Rocket points out above, it’s not really an accomplishment for a woman. Lastly, despite your belief to the contrary, the guys with which you claim to be with while fucking up were indeed fucking down from their perspective. You may not think you’re a troll (and you may or may not be right), but your self-assessment is irrelevant to the male perspective. We make that call for ourselves.

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  17. Mark Says:

    I found the op’s post entertaining. Some interesting points were also raised.

    Face it, a certain segment of the male population will have a go with a gal in a skirt between the ages of 18-65 anywhere and any time. Why? Because they could. I think we all know one or two guys like that. If nothing else, it can be entertaining to hear some of their exploits from time to time.

    Another segment of the population will take a long hard look after a night at the pub. The old beer goggles at work. Or another way to look at it is to say the girls all get prettier at closing time. Again, many guys have been in the same situation at one time or another, so lot’s of guys can empathize.

    Still another segment of the male gender may hold the view that it all depends on the woman. Often it’s because of the been there done that sort of mentality and the Tom Cat mentality has worn thin. After a while they may find it’s either boring or just not fundamentally who they are when thinking about the possibility of a relationship. Be it short term or long term.

    I’m also inclined to agree about the conclusion about knowing within a few minutes or so if you are attracted. You’ll be attracted to them unless you find a reason to count them out of the running. They may look good on paper or hold an initial attraction, but we quickly say to ourselves “I don’t think this is going to go very far.”

    The upshot: You know, at least should know, who you are at this point, so stick with that in making your decisions.

    Again, some divergent yet insightful posts in this thread.

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  18. Klara Says:

    i absolutely agree with you opinion, the women who go to bed with a “hot” guy, even when they feel the guy is not really attracted to them, only wants to have the “i f-d a really hot guy” feeling. they can gossip it with the girlfriends, they can be proud of it, but i think often they feel disappointed after it.

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    • Vox Says:

      Not at all. Squeezing a man’s tight, round ass is amazing, so is feeling strong, firm thighs pressed against mine. A nice broad back and chest to wrap your arms around, being under a man who is big and strong, and firm enough to engulf you is absolutely amazing. I could write a lengthy essay on the subject, but it would be very graphic, and only of interest to myself. I find it bizarre that the only upside you and Moxie can think of is to tell your friends. It makes me think you don’t actually like sex, and so you aren’t paying attention to the physical nuances around you.

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      • Saj Says:

        Thumbs up strictly for the ass squeezing comment. Preaching to the choir.

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      • ollie Says:

        Something doesn’t add up. I don’t know how a woman would know before his clothes came off just how buff a man was. That’s like a woman saying she only has sex with men who are well endowed. How do you know until they’re naked in front of you? Are you picking men to screw from catalogs or off runways? This is an attempt to shame men into thinking they have no chance with you. It’s verbal masturbation.

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        • Vox Says:

          You really can’t tell who is fit and who is not when they are dressed? You must be blind. And you are probably a bit of a chunky monkey who likes to believe the truth only comes out when the clothes come off. Sorry, your delusions aren’t shared by everyone.

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          • ollie Says:

            Men know not to be fooled by the make-up, Victoria’s Secret and Spanks. A woman with a beautiful face and average body is a safer bet. I suspect many men would agree with me.

            Pounds can be lost if she chooses.. A face like a Picasso is forever. It doesn’t improve with age.

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            • Vox Says:

              What? You aren’t making any sense. I’m talking about fit men, and you are going on about Victoria’s Secret and women’s faces. I don’t date women, nor do I sleep with them.

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              • ollie Says:

                You asked me if I was able to tell if a woman was fit when clothed. I shared with you a common rule that many men follow. We pay more attention to a woman’s face because what’s under her clothes is usually enhanced in some manner (push up bras, spanks, etc.)

                A fit shape is attractive but it’s all the same in bed. We can visualize bigger breasts or a smaller wasit. If the sex is good those things are inconsequential.

                A beautiful face is more of an asset because we have to look at it. No amount of tone or muscle can make up for the lack of a pretty face.

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                • Vox Says:

                  You asked me if I was able to tell if a woman was fit when clothed.

                  No I didn’t. I merely commented on your assertion that *I* can’t tell the difference between a man who is fit and one who is not. I never asked you an opinion about women, because I don’t particularly care.

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        • trouble Says:

          I can tell that a man isn’t wearing underwear before his clothes are off, and you’re asking if I can tell if a guy is fit/buff?

          Hell…if a guy has nicely toned forearms, you can safely bet the rest of him looks pretty damn good. And in a pair of jeans or dress pants, a well-toned ass is crystal clear.

          Ollie: You must be a rank amateur at this sort of thing.

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        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “I don’t know how a woman would know before his clothes came off just how buff a man was.” Seriously? You can tell by the shape of someone’s body, how their clothes fit and the way they move. And we’re not exactly running around in burqas anyway. If you’re in shape, people can tell.

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  19. sarah Says:

    fucking down is perceived as a looks thing typically. like a guy who is a 10 fucking a 2. But how many women and men put ip w bullshit treatment???? Even from a good looking guy? So i would rather “fuck down” than be with a jerk. Having said that, i 100% agree w Moxie that the attraction is either there or its not. Some people say “well I’ll just go out w him a few times and maybe an attraction will develop” > BLAH BLAH BLAH

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  20. Selena Says:

    Sarah, since you believe attraction is either there or it’s not – do you only go out with guys you are very attracted to? Never guys you think are “okay” looking? And if the guy you were attracted to proves out to be a jerk, do you still find him attractive?

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  21. dina Says:

    Oh and btw Moxie, when you wrote…

    “As far as the mysoginistic accusation…please. That’s the battle cry for women who look for reasons not to give head or have sex because they’re insecure and resentful. Those are also the women who get dropped like hot rocks.”

    You got it all twisted Moxie… it’s the insecure girls that suck cock and then become resentful when the guy moves on. They are the ones that get dropped like hot rocks. You know that. They think if the give the guy good head, he’ll stay. Yeah, he’ll stay until he cums. He won’t even stay until the morning… or he might just ask the gifter to leave.

    Sucking cock is a gift and every guy knows it. Too bad you don’t. Too bad you’re in denial. You use giving head as a reason to show you’re liberated and in control… you’re not liberated or in control, at all. You’re confused.

    These guys who want to receive these gifts will find plenty of insecure girls to accommodate them.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 13

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    • trouble Says:

      Here’s a tip, Dina:

      Guys don’t want a girl who views sucking cock as “a gift” because girls who see it like that generally aren’t very good at it and usually don’t enjoy doing it very much.

      I know this is going to shock you, but some of us enjoy pleasing our partners because reciprocal pleasure is a key ingredient in a healthy relationship.

      Signed,

      A girl who enjoys giving a good BJ (and who has a pretty happy fiance)

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

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      • dina Says:

        i’m speaking about girls who are just giving it to get something… looking at it as a way of keeping a guy.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

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    • Brad Says:

      “Sucking cock is a gift and every guy knows it.”

      Out of curiosity – is going down on a girl also a ‘gift’, or is it different? If it’s a gift, is one equal to the other?

      My ex from a decade ago thought like you did. I hung around long enough to get it, then not to long after broke up with her. I thought of it as such an unhealthy view of sex that there was NO chance that I would put my sexual future in this girl’s hands.

      I love Moxie’s board, but don’t have time to everything regularly, so I don’t know your situation (married, single, etc). Assuming you’re single and looking, think of it like this – instead of reasoning it out from your point of view, put yourself in the POV of the man you might want.

      Lets assume a man in your future is a good looking guy with options. All of the GF’s this guy had before you just liked keeping him happy, but now you announce that this is a ‘gift’ he must earn. And just being exclusive to you is not ‘earning’ it, he must do other stuff.

      The guy is going to think ‘what else does she view as a gift? Cooking dinner? Being faithful? Letting me follow my passions?’ It opens a line of questioning early-on that you probably don’t want the guy to be pondering.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

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      • dina Says:

        Surprisingly, and i should have stated this from the beginning, the statement was made by a young guy in his early 20s who gets his fair share of action from women. The subject of intimacy came up in conversation and that was a statement he made. I was surprised to hear it from a young guy. But the topic of conversation was about men wanting to be on the receiving end more than on the giving end… so it was not a balance of shared intimacy or reciprocation, but more of selfish behavior by some men.

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        • dina Says:

          Also, no relationship should be based on earning things. Relationships should be based on mutual interest, attraction, chemistry, things in common, etc. and the level of intimacy should be what the couple is comfortable with.

          I’ve never heard of girls saying something needs to be “earned”. Maybe they’re just not ready to move beyond a certain point at a particular point in the relationship. What you described sounded more conditional. If a girl ever starts doing the conditional stuff, then that’s reason to leave.

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  22. sarah Says:

    @ Selena, for me attraction is not about looks. i dont “go ” or not “go ” for a gorgeous guy. I find someone I feel like I would at some point actually like to sleep with. Otherwise I am doing myself and the guy a disservice. And yes if he turned out to be a jerk, regardless of looks, i would find him unattractive. All i was saying is in my experience anytime I did not feel it right away, if I gave the guy a chance and tried to force myself to be attracted, it never works. Incidentally, attractiveness for me is not about looks, its the chemistry, its his confidence, its if he has a sense of humor. People automatically assume you can only be attracted to the gorgeous guy. I personally stay far away from Bradley Cooper lookalikes because I’ve found they are mostly legends in their own minds. hope that answers your questions

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      “Incidentally, attractiveness for me is not about looks, its the chemistry, its his confidence, its if he has a sense of humor. People automatically assume you can only be attracted to the gorgeous guy. I personally stay far away from Bradley Cooper lookalikes….”

      See my post above. Every woman is doing the exact same thing. The men you find attractive? Every woman finds attractive, and for the same reasons. You may as well go for Bradley Cooper (whoever that is) if you can pull it off.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

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      • P. Says:

        Once you get tired of being Brad Pitt, try being Bradley Cooper for a while. He’s the achingly hot one from The Hangover. Actually, he’s the only hot one from The Hangover, although I’m one of those women who like the quirky funny ones and would do Zach Galifianakis in a heartbeat. Please don’t burst my bubble and tell me that there’s a legion of women lined up to do that, okay?

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        • D Says:

          He does. Just the fact that he stars in Hollywood movies screams success and ambition, which is a big part of what women look for in a man.

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          • P. Says:

            Oh, but those would be the ones deluding themselves about their attraction because he’s successful and ambitious, right? I’m talking, how many people want to do him? Who can form an attraction to an overweight hairy bearded guy. After reading this post, it seems that some people can do that more readily than others.

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    • Selena Says:

      Thanks for answering me Sarah. I also believe there is alot more to attraction than symetrical features; personality plays as much, if not larger role in it. And then there is the intangible – often we just don’t know why we are attracted to some people and not others. We might perceive one person to be *hot*, that another thinks is just *okay*. And vice versa. The things you mentioned you are attracted to – confidence, sense of humor, are revealed by spending time with a person though, not within minutes- so if you can tell whether or not you are attracted to someone “right away” you must be basing that on something else. What do you think?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

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  23. Christina Says:

    I guess it’s really not surprising that so many people have trouble finding meaningful relationships when they’re obsessed with looks and status, leagues and fucking up and down. Just because you’ve figured out how a lot of people behave doesn’t mean you should do the same as those who continually don’t get the results they want. Reading these comments made me feel like I was in high school again. Not a good feeling. :D

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

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  24. dan Says:

    This got into a heated argument quick. I’ve read some of the comments here and from a scientific standpoint they do a good job of trying to explain attraction. But, in reality, who the hell knows for sure. There are women out there that I have banged and/or swapped spit with that suprised me by being interested in me. The only thing they said that could pass for attraction was I was cocky and an ass.

    Christina I agree with you. But thats how the majoritty of adults act and think, nowadays. Sometimes I envy dogs. There’s none of this logic or whatever you want to call it that humans engage in. They just sniff each others’ butts and start having sex. Once they are done they move along and that’s it. No compications or this b/s about being attracted or not.

    I will say this, too. When you are a guy and you have not gotten it in awhile, your lonely or the skin magazines are no longer cutting it, you think about finding something/anything to screw. The overweight girl or the little too old woman starts to look good. In fact, I knew guys back in the day that would screw anything. As for me, I don’t do it. I almost did it once with this older, okay looking woman but she kept teasing, complaining how guys paw women over and so I gave up. Not worth it.

    Recently, I had rebound sex with this lady. Do I think I fucked up? Nah. Do I think she fucked down? Nah. She was looking for a guy she was sexually attracted to and, luckily, it was me. Well, arguably, she fucked up because she was in her mid-forties albeit in great shape and I am 38. Now, the shit that followed was a pain and I learned my lesson.

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  25. Kurt Says:

    I know a lot of guys who refuse to go for women not of their level of attractiveness and I think this is common. I would rather go without sex than be with an unattractive woman, but perhaps I am in the minority?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

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