What Do Women Find Attractive In Men?

Name: M
State: MO
Age:
Comment: A few days ago, Dalrock commented on one of your posts:

“Women have a very strange habit (from a man’s perspective) when giving advice. Men ask women what men can do to make them attractive to women. Women think of a man they are attracted to, and then think of how they wish that man would act and/or treat them. This is the answer to a totally different question than what the man asked, and it produces disastrous results. This is why every man who ever asked a female friend, his sister, his mother, etc what he should do to make a woman like him gets the same disastrous advice:

1) Be nice.
2) Buy her flowers/gifts, etc.
3) Pay attention to her.
4) etc.

Women are mistaking comfort for attraction, and these are entirely different things. A man a woman isn’t attracted to won’t build attraction by doing things which increase comfort. In fact, he will do the opposite; instead of becoming more attractive to her he will come off as creepy. Men need to first generate attraction, and then they can build comfort with the woman.”

From what I have seen, this is true.  But if these women are giving the answer to the wrong question, how can we get an answer to the question we asked?  What is the answer to the question we asked?

 

I’ll say this….just the mere fact that you are asking the question makes me think you are lacking the one main ingredient necessary for attraction – confidence. There really is nothing more unattractive than a man who seems whiny and wishy washy and desperate for female approval.

In preparation for our recent Online Dating Teleclass, I looked through a ton of male profiles.  One profile in particular stood out to me as the classic example of how to turn off any woman in a 10 mile radius.

“Yes, I really am 42 years old.”

“Yes, my pictures are real.”

“Yes, I really am 5’10”..I know some guys lie.”

“If you’re doing XYZ you’re not for me.”

It just went on and on and on, with the guy sounding more and more insecure. The horrible attempts at being witty, the self-deprecating commentary, the disclaimers. His insecurity and lack of confidence was pervasive. I didn’t feel drawn to him, I felt bad for him.

Then there was another guy’s profile with the polar opposite approach. His profile stated, quite plainly, that he was over meeting useless women who where just looking for attention. He warned women not to reply to his ad if the were self-centered or dumb, adding that he was extremely picky so you better bring it.

Now, which profile do you think is going to get more responses? If you said the second guy, you’d be correct. That guy, I have no doubt, is getting a ton of scathing emails from women telling him what a douche he is. And I’ll bet he’s wooing at least a few of them and convincing them to meet him off line. And those women will do it because “they’re curious.” That guy will get more attention and probably get more dates, which I’m guessing is all he wants. It may not be the best approach, but I’ll bet any amount of money he’s getting more activity from his succinct, arrogant, overly douchey profile. Were he a schlub with a beer belly, he’d probably just get blocked and ignored. But he’s not. What he is is confident in what he wants and what he believes he deserves. His perception of his worth is likely grossly distorted. But the sheer fact that he let’s it be known that he has no problem alienating women will up his attractiveness factor.

You’re asking me what women find attractive.  I can tell you to dress well and be funny and have a good personality and have a good job, etc. But then you’ll probably say, “But…I have all those things!” What you probably don’t have is The  Attitude. To quote Damon from Fast Time at Ridgemont High

The attitude dictates that you don’t care whether she comes, stays, lays, or prays. I mean whatever happens, your toes are still tappin’. Now when you got that, then you have the attitude.

That guy in the second profile? He has The Attitude. It’s a douchey attitude, but it’s The Attitude. You need to develop a similar mentality and not put so much importance on getting female approval. Once you stop trying to figure them out and meeting every whim and demand and you just start being confident that you’re doing the best you can and that you’re a good guy with a lot to offer someone, you’ll be better off.

 

 

 

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109 Responses to “What Do Women Find Attractive In Men?”

  1. trouble Says:

    I think that women like confidence in a man. It doesn’t have to be a braggy loud kind of confidence, it can be the quiet sort of confidence that my guy has. He never tries to draw attention to his accomplishment (even though he’s a fairly high ranking officer and attended the naval academy, I didn’t know this about him for quite a while, and when he did tell me, it was done very matter of factly, as if it was no big deal). He’s always extremely competent and intelligent, and never makes rash statements without facts, so when he does speak, he sounds authoritative.

    He’s super nice, but it’s not in a fake/doormat kind of way. I knew immediately, when I met him, that I couldn’t pull any kind of crazy drama queen shit with him, because he wouldn’t put up with it (he wouldn’t make a scene, he’d just walk away). I like that about him, it again shows me his confidence and personality security.

    He doesn’t tolerate bullshit because he doesn’t have to, he knows that he is a catch (and told me so on our 3rd or 4th date, which made me laugh. He didn’t say it in a braggy way, but in a factual one: “I know I have a lot to offer the right person.” I’d never heard a guy say that before, but his confidence in his positive qualities made me feel immediate agreement with him.

    On the other hand, he does extremely considerate things without being asked, just to be sweet to me, like coming to my house one day and cleaning out my gutters (just because) or putting dinner in the crock pot for me when I’ve been traveling all week so I come home to dinner freshly made. He doesn’t send flowers much, but frankly, I’d rather have my gutters cleaned. He makes me feel cared for when he does those things, like he’s paid attention to me, and he’s doing things that will really make my life a lot easier. That kind of consideration is hard to find.

    In the bedroom, he often takes charge, and when he does so, I can totally relax because I know that he knows what he’s doing, and it’s going to work out well (competence is hugely attractive to me). He tells me how sexy I am when I let go and just relax with him, and enjoy myself. That’s been a huge factor in making me feel safe and comfortable in expressing myself with him, sexually, and has made our relationship much more intimate.

    He doesn’t always feel a need to be the boss, but when need be, he can step in and take charge of a situation, and it will be handled properly when he does so. (In other words, don’t try to control things when you lack the skills to handle them properly and expediently).

    He treats me like an equal and expects me to live my life like a responsible adult, so if I were to do something stupid, he’d expect me to rescue myself and probably wouldn’t step in to save me. I think that’s a positive, because it makes me feel like he views me as competent to handle my own business.

    I don’t often have complaints about something he’s done, but a couple of times I have, and when I’ve expressed them to him, he’s listened to me, taken my feelings seriously, and changed his behavior.

    When I’ve told him stuff about my life (mistakes I’ve made, etc.), he hasn’t judged me harshly, he’s pointed out my good characteristics and suggested possible solutions. He always makes me feel like he’s in my corner, on my team, and that he thinks highly of me as a person. He treats me with respect, he listens to me when I want to vent, and only steps in with advice if he’s sure I want it.

    He handles his business…his bills are paid, his life runs smoothly, and there is no drama.

    He doesn’t try too hard to be funny. In fact, he doesn’t try too hard at any of his interactions with people. He’s always nice and cordial, and he listens to people politely, but he doesn’t need to be the center of attention.

    Everything about him sends a message of strength, intelligence, and competence.

    I’m writing these things not because they are some idealized version of what a man should be, but because I think they are an honest response to the OP. Maybe they will give you a clearer idea of what women find attractive in a longterm partner.

    Self confidence, self-respect, humor, intelligence: real panty droppers, for many of us.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 0

  2. dimplz Says:

    I’ve always had odd taste, so I was never one to go for the guy who dressed well, was suave, or had a ton of girls around him. I didn’t want to feel like I was always competing for his attention, and honestly, I really didn’t feel a pull for them. I’ve been told I’m pretty, and I believe I am as well. Occasionally, one of those guys would hit on me, but as pretty as I think I am, I never took it to be genuine. It just seemed like he was doing it to prove he could. I could be wrong about that, but I don’t care if I was. A “pretty” man was never my goal. I always went for handsome face and a nice smile. If he was tall, great too.

    My mother told me years ago that the guy I am currently with was cute. I didn’t look at him a 2nd time. He just seemed like he was married. I didn’t know 10 years ago that he was the same age as me. He looked so serious, and I just thought, “Eh, I don’t know.” Ten years later, after going for only a nice smile and handsome face, I walked into his office to do my return. I just wanted to date a nice guy. He is handsome. I had to look past the glasses. That’s all. A pair of glasses and a prejudgment that he was too serious and wouldn’t want to loosen up and joke around. The most important thing I wanted to know about him when we met was what kind of belief system he had. Once I learned that he had a great deal of faith, always willing to help anyone, he’s funny, smart, exactly my height (which I got over as soon as I realized how great he was – 3rd date) and doesn’t have a problem talking about God and praying for people in need and doesn’t talk shit and gossip about people. Well, serious he is not. He’s a jokester, a great musician, and on our 3rd date when he played me 80s songs on my guitar until 5:30 a.m., I was eating my words about who I thought he was.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  3. D Says:

    Last year I changed my dating profile to be more like the second guy. Not quite as douchey, but I led off by focusing on what I expect from a woman, not what I offer. I made a list of things I like and bluntly asked “does this describe you?” I also made of point of saying that I was happily single but was open to an LTR for the right person.

    I get TONS of email now. Way more than I ever did in the past.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  4. Selena Says:

    If I were reading those two profiles as potential men to date, my reaction would have been the same: they are both so negative about finding someone – why bother? ““If you’re doing XYZ you’re not for me.” “He warned women not to reply to his ad if the were self-centered or dumb, adding that he was extremely picky so you better bring it.”

    Yeah, these guys claim to not want ‘drama’ , but the women who would want to go out with guys who would write stuff like this are the women who are enticed by such challenge because of the potential for drama. Circular. Bleh.

    Also, #2 guy didn’t come across as confident to me. More like using bravado in place of it. A caricature, like a dude in an inane ‘reality’ show. Confidence to me is someone who is comfortable in their own skin, with their opinions and views and doesn’t feel the need to shove them in anyone’s face and make an issue of it. Sort of the opposite of Attitude.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 3

    • dimplz Says:

      The first profile sounds like my ex’s. I found him on Match after we broke up. He sounded pretty much like that. Then he wrote he was gainfully employed and checked off the income bracket of 50-75K. He wrote something about how he’s learned common sense is not so common. It just came off as very sarcastic, but he was a very sarcastic guy. He was also extremely touchy, so I think his profile represented him fairly accurately. If I would have seen his profile online, I would have skipped right over him. Instead, I had to find out how he was by spending time with him. Dreadful.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    • Andrew Says:

      Have you read the profiles of women. The profiles of women have more disclaimers than men. The hypocrisy is that some women somehow want to get annoyed when a guy does the same. Some guys definitely take it too far, as some women do. I suppose the trick is to still come off as being friendly. Latey that word “friendly” seems to be the hardest commodity to find in the dating scene in NYC. And really it’s because everyone is caught up in his or her bullshit.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

      • Selena Says:

        The more I read this blog, the more grateful I am I don’t live in NYC.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

        • Andrew Says:

          Yeah, balance is lacking in people from everywhere. NYC may be the extreme, but it’s not the only place with unfriendly people. The attitute thing, loosely called altitude in the neighborhoods of NYC is such a turnoff. Confidence is important, but I have no idea why people feel it’s the same as nastiness.

          There is a way to be confident, but not full of altitude and downright nastiness in some cases. With men, It’s really important to say less. I myself struggle with this all this all the time, beign in sales. The old adage applies. When you have to say it too much, it’s probably not there. Clint Eastwood never has to tell you he is this or that; you just get it. The same with Han Solo in Star Wars, and he certainly gets the princess all hot and bothered.

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          • Selena Says:

            Smiling about the memory of Han Solo. Yep. :)

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • Cricri Says:

            That’s just because Han Solo is hot, funny and can slay enemies, plus he has an heroic death! Not everybody can pull that off!

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  5. C Says:

    Being confident is definitely the answer to the guys question. Being a douche? I don’t think so. Damon? From Fast Times? Was the douchiest character…oh, and remember, he didn’t end up with the girl. Yeah, he got laid, but he also got her pregnant. I would not say that he was the most confident character either. He was just pretending to know what women want in order to impress his friends. He was really clueless.

    Guys, don’t use Damon as a role model. Please.

    My guy is confident in who he is and is the farthest thing from a douche that I have ever dated. He never drove himself crazy or went overboard trying to win my affection. He didn’t have to. He was just himself and completely comfortable in his own skin. That’s what really won me over. Also, he was passionate about what he does for a living. Not arrogant. Not douchey. And he expressed his interest in me without smothering me.

    Before I met him, I can say that the douche might have elicited some intrigue. But it was often short-lived and I never saw a future with that type of guy. That type of guy also made me suspicious. His lack of confidence and respect made me feel like I couldn’t really trust him with my feelings.

    Ultimately, women (ok, well at least myself) want to be taken care of, in a sense. I’m not just talking about opening doors and laying your jacket in a mud puddle for her to walk on. I’m talking about the romantic gestures that make a woman feel like you are there for her. Those comforting things that your friend told you to do are things that women really appreciate from a man that they trust and want to be with. If big romantic gestures are done too early on, yeah it comes off creepy. But the fact that my guy can do those things now that we have been together for over a year and a half makes me feel so great. It’s not every day, and if it was, it would lose it’s appeal. But occasionally, usually when I least expect it, he will surprise me with something like that and it makes my whole day.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    • D Says:

      You assume the douchey guy is looking for a relationship. That may not be true, in which case the fact that his profile intrigues you means it’s having it’s intended effect. As Dalrock said, there’s a difference between comfort and attraction.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

      • C Says:

        You assume that he doesn’t. But even just hooking up is a relationship to a certain extent. There are still certain rules and boundaries. If that is his angle, he can probably have just as much success, if not more, by projecting confidence and being a cool guy to be around.

        Like Selena said above, guys that put that sort of douchey energy out here are just asking for drama. It’s a cry for attention and a glaring red flag of insecurity. So yeah, when I was a little younger, the douche might have been intriguing…but then I grew up. If you want to be a douche to get women, then you have to be prepared for the TYPE of woman that will go for that: immature, insecure, unsure what she wants, and hoping to be the one to change you.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

        • Selena Says:

          Also, the type of woman who would go for that type of challenge “I’m picky so you better bring it.” would easily move on to the next conquest once she *won* Mr. Picky. Ho hum.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Was the douchiest character…oh, and remember, he didn’t end up with the girl.

      He didn’t want the girl. And “the girl” didn’t fall on his penis. She was the one to pursue him and it wasn’t even clear if she was even attracted to him. Damone was a douche , for sure. But Stacy was no prize. Not sure why the guy is the only one being called out for bad behavior.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      • C Says:

        So….wait, what is your point then? Damone was a douche, got laid by a girl he wasn’t really even into and who wasn’t really even into him. Who won?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

        • C Says:

          Are you giving dating advice? Or get-lousy-sex advice?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            My point is that Stacy didn’t get herself pregnant and Damon never pursued her. He merely took what she very willingly offered. They both decided not to use birth control. So they both share the responsibility of the outcome of that situation. I’m not sure why Stacy gets a free pass from her equally questionable and insecure behavior.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

            • C Says:

              I’m not relieving Stacy of any responsibility in the situation. I’m only saying that Damone did not win some great prize with his lame attitude towards women.

              Love that movie. So many life lessons.

              Also Moxie, not every female is trying to trap or blame a man. Geez.

              I’m not sure why Stacy gets a free pass for her equally questionable and insecure behavior

              So you admit that you are advising guys to exhibit questionable and insecure behavior to get women? Since you think that Stacy and Damone are equally questionable and insecure…

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6

              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                It’s a movie quote, C. It’s just a quote. You’re reading way too much in to it.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

                • C Says:

                  Is it just a qoute? I mean you used it in an attempt to strengthen your argument that guys should be more douchey.

                  Anyway, fine…no more Fast Times critiques I guess.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

                • dimplz Says:

                  Chasing Amy?

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

        • dimplz Says:

          At the risk of delving too deep of an analysis of the film, neither of them “wins.” It’s a didactic film. Stacy overlooked the nice guys and kept sleeping with the jerks. When she finally notices Mark, it’s because she realizes someone like Damone is not available to her and she goes for the safe dude. Much like women do now.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          • C Says:

            I’m starting to feel too connected to these characters today. AGH!

            But yes, you are right. Like Moxie said, she wasn’t really that into him anyway.

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  6. rick Says:

    one thing: self deprecacting humor usually is a sign of confidence, not insecurity.

    I agree with the last two posters above that the NYC dating scene is much of the problem- hard to find genuine people out here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    • dimplz Says:

      I disagree with that. Everyone I have ever known who jokes in that manner has always had many insecurity issues. I think humility goes a long way – one who doesn’t talk about oneself incessantly, whether self-deprecating or not, is often the person who doesn’t need validation from others and is happy with him or herself.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

      • Selena Says:

        And I disagree with you. Most of the people I know who use self-deprecating humor do so to put others at ease, including themselves in awkward situations. If someone does something they are a bit embarrassed about, I will sometimes tell the story of a similuar situation of my own. It’s not out of any kind of insecurity, more of the “Don’t worry about it, it’s happened to me too” kind of thing. Human, that’s all.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

        • dimplz Says:

          I think we’re talking about different things. You’re discussing a situation, whereas I’m discussing a personality trait, one in which a person is constantly self-deprecating. In each case, where I know the person, it’s a person with self-confidence issues, not someone who’s trying to sympathize with someone who’s done something embarrassing.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

          • Selena Says:

            Even people with good self-confidence use self-deprecating remarks to put others at ease. It can be an ice breaker in social situations. A way of connecting with one’s audience. Celeb’s, public figures sometimes do it in interviews. It’s a “I’m not so different from you – really” type of thing.

            There is also a difference between making self-deprecating remarks, jokes, and deliberately putting oneself down in front of others. The latter is sometimes a bid for attention, sympathy, rather than a display of insecurity.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

            • dimplz Says:

              Well, I don’t personally know public figures or celebrities, but I guess you do and know that they are self-confident, then I will take back my response.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            “I’m discussing a personality trait, one in which a person is constantly self-deprecating.” Constantly? Yeah, that’d be a problem. However, there is a big difference between someone who occasionally makes a self-deprecating joke, usually to put others at ease, and someone who believes, deep down, that the negative things they’re saying about themselves really are true.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  7. P. Says:

    I don’t think there’s a single thing that all women find attractive…we may be of the same gender, but as the last discussion about forming attraction should have demonstrated, we all go for different things at different paces.

    I would not go for either of the profiles listed above. I hate mealy-mouthed whiny lack of self-confidence, especially among those guys who are age-appropriate. If you’ve made it to your late 30s to mid-40s without any sense of self (or a very defensive one), you’re just not for me. And even more, I hate the douchey bravado. Like I mentioned in the previous post, I don’t tend to flock toward the ones who are surrounded by a bunch of women (or who think they should be even if they aren’t.) I don’t want someone who acts like I should be thrilled that he has picked me, and who constantly wants me to remember all the other options he has, because I’ll probably end up urging him to take them.

    I like really smart, even to the point of nerdiness. Really funny, even to the point of goofiness. Quiet security and self-assurance. Lacking arrogance. No sexual hangups, whether it’s judgments about how soon to have it, lacking knowledge of female anatomy, or super-specific fetishes. Not afraid to reveal parts of himself that other people might not dig, and not trying to change his personality for every crowd and every person. Possessing an energy that motivates him to achieve things, never stop learning, and continually pursue new life experiences. The ability to talk to anyone about anything, without either completely asocially retreating, or engaging in completely inappropriate or self-absorbed conversations. Having interests and hobbies that he’s willing to share while showing interest in mine. An understanding of the rules of fighting fair, with only a very rare need to resort to invoking them. Not taking himself too seriously, nor expecting anyone else to either. And having the voices in his head guiding him in the right direction, not holding him back or steering him wrong.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

  8. Dan Says:

    Okay, first never accept advice from women on this subject. However, I admit Moxie and trouble give good advice and insight on this. It’s like Moxie wrote: confidence comes from not caring whether a women is interested or not. Further, it’s not putting up with their bullshit. Let me give myself as an example.

    I am able to get numbers from women and interest them, initially. In fact, I bedded one lady after meeting her in person for the first time from a dating site. Why? I believe because I don’t care what she thinks or whether she is interested or not. I’m cocky–kind of like an ass according to her–but I’m not rude or behave inappropriately. Plus, I am funny and am able to tell stories and not just talk about work etc. I go for the kiss when I am ready and don’t ask for permission. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. But, I set the tone, not her.

    Where do I fuck up? Later on, after our first meeting or date. I get so worried on maintaining interest or wondering if I messing it up that I do stupid things that make me come across as needy or desperate. How? I start texting/emailing and not waiting for her to respond. For example, this last girl I went out with and bedded I did the following: I called her two (2) days after our night together and she texted me back in response. I then texted her back for her to give me a call later on. Well, that was on a Saturday. Well, she did not and I ended up emailing her on Monday and which time she responded. Of course, she apologized and said she was busy. However, I NEVER should have emailed her. I should have waited for her to call. If she did call, but 2-3 days later I should either have walked or, if decided to stay, mirrored her actions. Why? A woman, even one who is busy, who is interested in you will return your call promptly and not wait that long to call. If she does that, her interest is low and she is being disrespecful. And don’t let any woman tell you, “but Dan she was busy with her kid or something.” NO. Any woman who is interested will return your call in 24 hours. They take longer and they are not that into you and you either walk or make yourself scarce to attempt to get her interest high again.

    Okay, I took this same woman to dinner on a Wednesday a week and a half later. I wined and dined her and I thought we had a good time. I opened doors for her, was on time and then took to get drinks afterward. She then tells me she wants to take it slow etc. Yet, we make out. At this point, this is all bullshit b/c her acts do not reflect what she is saying. I should have let it go. Nor did I get a thank you text or had a good time text. In fact, I got no contact from her until I texted her on Saturday. In any event, based on my experience, a woman who is really interested in you will text you after a good night they had a good time. Okay, so what do I do? I text her three (3) days later on a Saturday with a “hope you are having a good weekend.” I get no response and so I text her on Monday. NO. DO NOT DO THAT. You wait for her to contact you. If she does not or does so in a late manner you walk. She is not interested or has low interest. The least this woman could have done was to text me back on Saturday or Sunday, “Thanks, hope you are having a good weekend, too.” That’s it. An interested woman, even a busy one, will get back to you promptly. Or if she is in fact busy–she is too busy to date.

    Again, after I showed her courtesy and attention, all she did was show me disrespect. i should have walked or waited for her to contact me. But, in hindsight, I should have walked.

    Another example. I took this woman to out to dinner and while we are eating she tells me she does not want a relationship. At that point you either say, “Good, neither do I” or you finish eating, get the check and bring her home. That’s it. You don’t contact her again.

    Again, show confidence and do not take any disrespect or b/s from a woman. Trouble’s boyfriend is a good example and that is why she has joined his cult. As for me, I am working on this myself. You have to realize that while the pussy may have been good you don’t put it on a pedestal. It will only lead you to disrespecting yourself and coming across with no confidence. Your attitude should be. “Man, this girl is not interested, but there are tons of other girls out there.”

    As embarrassing as these episodes in my life are, they serve to illustrate the points Moxie made about confidence in a man. You play it cool and don’t worry about whether a woman is interested or not and you do not take any disrespect. Do otherwise, and it will show your lack of confidence.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 15

    • Selena Says:

      You sound like a 20 yr old frat boy Dan. I think your claim of being a 38 yr old attorney is internet fiction.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4

      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        Other than yet another mention of this kook who blew him off, (dude let it go already) there was nothing wrong with his comment. Not sure what about it is “frat boyish.” I don’t see how returning what you perceive as immaturity with name calling is productive.

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        • Selena Says:

          Point taken.

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          • Dan Says:

            I’m just trying to give the OP concrete examples on how to display confidence to women and what not to do. Some of the comments by the ladies here I felt, while insightful, were too general and not practical. Further, I used the recent example of this women who blew me off because I felt it illustrated some of the points I was making. But, I am moving on.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

            • Saj Says:

              I thought your other post about the subject we got to the point where it wasn’t anything you did or didn’t do but the girl in question having issues. You can’t blame acting like a decent human being as why she blew you off and make a case against acting like that due to it. There is a whole slew of reasons that are probably more complicated then wrapping it up in a tidy package with a bow on top.

              Funny I’m listening to an old loveline episode from the 90’s and they are talking about attraction. How a girl who’s dad was in alcoholic will somehow end up with a guy who is an alcoholic. It doesn’t have anything to do with looks but attraction. However based on the advise given here it seems that ALL guys should be alcoholics to attract the small % of women who grew up in that environment and are pulled to that type.

              In the end though the douchey guys are insecure and the girls who want them are insecure so they are made for each other. I just hate to see large portions of the dating populace take on this persona because it works for a few guys to get laid by damage chicks.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    • Steve Says:

      If keeping a woman’s interest after you’ve laid her is her is your biggest problem, well things could be a lot worse.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  9. Saj Says:

    Both those profiles suck. The second one is just a beacon for insecure women who feel a need for approval with a gold star from a guy who gives off the appearance he doesn’t like them. So if you want to attract insecure chicks with daddy issues being a jerk is the way to go. Also any woman who would write the second guy is an idiot IMO.

    Women like all sorts of things so it’s hard to have a quantifiable list. For me I really really like decent guys, the ones you just can tell have a good heart, kind and considerate and also can make raunchy crude jokes. But guys will dismiss that as the nice doesn’t work line so whatever.

    It’s not that nice is the problem is that these guys who complain about being nice and worked over aren’t really nice so much as whinny and pushy and think they are owed women just by existing.

    Confidence is good but not in the superior asshole way. Confidence is being comfortable in your own skin. Someone who is sincere and happy is attractive. Someone who makes an effort to get to know you and connect with you on a deeper level and has your back is attractive. Guys who have to fake their personalities to manipulate women into liking them also reek of low self esteem but yes many women aren’t yet on to this game and fall for it but do satisfying relationships spring from this? I doubt it.

    Most of my coworkers are by all appearances happily married. They are nice, down to earth decent guys who are average to below average looking who treat their spouses right. Maybe NYC breeds more narcissists who use each other for short periods and for sport but it just seems like a waste of time.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      So if you want to attract insecure chicks with daddy issues being a jerk is the way to go. Also any woman who would write the second guy is an idiot IMO.

      Guys like that get contacted by women of all kinds, even the smart ones who think sending a good old fashioned rant will make a difference. You can bet he’s dated and bedded those women, too. Guys like that – and there are many – know exactly how handle these women. He knows exactly how to answer them and indulge them.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      • dimplz Says:

        I just thought of something. Has any woman ever run into the “good cop/bad cop” scenario? Like the one where the friend acts inappropriately or says something stupid and the other guy says, “Listen, I’m sorry about my friend, he can be a real jerk sometimes,” and you go, “No it’s ok,” and realize how NICE he is? Do you not think that’s a ploy either? Why would he hang out with him if he could be a real jerk? We’ve all been had at one point or another, and there’s a lid for every pot, or a jerk for every twit, rather.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    • D Says:

      This is such BS. I have a particularly cocky profile on a site that attracts very confident women. One I’ve been seeing recently is an ex-Navy jet pilot.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    • Andrew Says:

      I really hate to say this, but it goes both ways. This self absorbtion thing we see in the second profile, and the insecurity we see in the first profile are found in both genders. I would imagine the self absorbed attracts the insecure, and vice versa.

      However lately there is way too much of the the self absorbtion. Maybe I am too much of a good listener, but I am tired of listening to women I just met, go on endlessly about the travails of their life. Sometimes I feel like sending them a bill for using me as a shrink when I just met them. And it’s making me into a guy I hate being, the guy who cuts off all subsequent contact. They typically get mad and demand answers as to why I don’t want to proceed further, when they think it was going so well. Frankly, the mere thought of having to explain and deal with ridiculous objections, is just too draining to imagine; trust me, I have tried that.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

      • Selena Says:

        Since you’re such a good listener have you tried changing the subject to a more mutually interesting topic? That’s what I do when I tire of listening to someone’s laments.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • Joey Giraud Says:

          Good idea, something most socially competent adults can do.

          But it must get tiresome to always be the only adult on a date. I want women who are mature enough to catch themselves in a rant.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  10. Vox Says:

    Personally I would never send a message to either of those guys. The 2nd one reminds of someone who sent me a message a few years ago; his handle was “Canyouinterestme” or something like that. So off putting I didn’t bother to respond, even though his stats and looks were good. Men who challenge in that way seem like assholes to me. It seems like some sort of PUA technique… I pass

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  11. P. Says:

    Getting back to the OP, what is the OP’s question? The thing that will compel more women to go on a date with you is not the same thing that will compel more women to sleep with you, which is not the same thing that will compel more women to consider you for a relationship.

    Or put another way, profile #2 might get more responses, and therefore more first dates. And if those first dates were with insecure women with daddy issues, he might even get laid more. By that measure, it’s more likely to be successful if you define success as responses/dates/casual sex experiences. But, if profile #2 claims to want a relationship, then the more relationship-minded emotionally stable people are going to steer clear of the profile. And he’s going to be wondering why he can’t seem to meet a woman who isn’t crazy.

    And profile #1 probably won’t get many or any responses, and that guy can whine about how you have to be a douchebag to succeed online, or that women are shallow and only go for money/looks/good job, etc., not realizing how he’s standing in his own way. He might be able to let down his guard, drop the defensiveness, and be a decent relationship partner, but most women are not going to make the effort to get past all those defenses.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  12. C Says:

    Isn’t it funny how just about every woman posting on here has said that being a douche is NOT attractive? Well, except for Moxie, but she is one of those really cool girls that doesn’t give guys a hard time (because guys don’t like that).

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I never said that behavior was attractive or that I find it attractive. But you’re delusional if you think many women don’t see that behavior as a challenge and pursue it. There’s a whole very lucrative industry based on those principles.

      Somebody is falling for this schtick. Just like some body is sleeping with those men who pursue casual sex. You can’t control any of it, just like you can’t control men or your boyfriend or whomever. People are going to do what they’re going to do based on their options. Getting angry about it isn’t going to make it go away. Nor will getting threatened by the idea that there are women out there who will sleep with men, maybe even your guy.

      Men are as faithful as their options. It’s a daunting premise, but it’s accurate.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8

      • Selena Says:

        I believe men are as faithful as they want to be regardless of their options. They may have options, but don’t take them for their own reasons at any given time.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          Note that “their own reasons” usually amounts to the guy feeling (perhaps correctly) that who he’s with is a better option than any other option available. That doesn’t make him a wonderful guy; it means he’s lucky.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • C Says:

        Seriously, Moxie…I don’t know why you think I am angry just because I am challenging your advice. Not trying to control anyone either. Never said that some women don’t go for that. Actually, I said that a certain type of woman DOES go for that.

        Oh no! What?! My guy might cheat on me?

        The horror.

        All I was trying to convey was that advising someone to be an asshole is not good advice.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          I think you’re angry because you keep insulting people and lashing out at them. And people only do that when they’re angry. Or threatened. Between me, Dan and D, you’ve been tossing off shot after shot and name calling the last few weeks.

          I don’t mind when you challenge me. You’ve challenged me on my opinions of Facebook and we had a calm back and forth. But this isn’t challenging me. This is insulting me. Your comments yesterday about the relevancy of the topic were insulting me. If you don’t see that, I’m not sure debating this further is worth it. I don’t owe it to you or anybody else to talk only of dating and relationships. I pay for this blog. Not you. Learn your place.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 3

          • C Says:

            When did I call anyone a bad name? The only harsh terms I have used are the ones you used in your posts. Except ‘asshole’…so I take back the word ‘asshole’ and replace it with ‘douche’.

            Sorry if I insulted you. That was not my angle at all. Didn’t realize it was such a sensitive subject. Also, I’m not the only person that challenged your advice yesterday and today.

            You sort of present yourself as this strong, independent, open-minded woman that has a tough skin, yet you fly off the handle when I disagree with your advice. Is this not a public forum? What is the point of providing a space for people to comment on your posts if you get so offended by the most tepid of responses? I seriously thought it was all in good fun (especially the part where we picked apart the meaning of a relationship between fictional characters).

            I disagreed with you. Doesn’t mean I hate you or I am judging you, or men for that matter. Just providing a different viewpoint that I believe many women share…and let me be CLEAR: not all women share my view and I am not hurt or offended by that. You shouldn’t be either.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 9

            • dimplz Says:

              Why do people always say that once they disagree with Moxie, she lashes out. If you come across as hostile in your messages, she is going to respond to that hostility. Most people do that. Also, this is Moxie’s blog, it’s not public. She pays for it and invites people to comment. But, if you are going to bash what she writes and who you think she is, it does come across as angry. Why else would you be on a site where you don’t agree with the content and don’t care for the conversation or the way the person runs their site? To me, that makes no sense. We all disagree with Moxie here and there. Not all of the content appeals to me. I refrain from commenting, instead of complaining about how it’s not helping people. Maybe it does help some people, just not me. Just skip over it or leave if the language and content is offensive. She’s certainly not going to change anything for you.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6

              • C Says:

                First of all, I was never invited to comment. I found this blog through another blog and it most certainly is public. Yes, we are reminded constantly that Moxie pays for this blog (usually when someone disagress with her and she feels the need to tell them where their “place” is).

                Second of all, the reason I comment here is because the content interests me. Just because I don’t agree with everything Moxie says does not mean that I don’t find the conversation enjoyable. I didn’t realize I came across hostile either.

                I never “bashed” her, simply had a different opinion. Sometimes I share her opinion. Which I express when I do. And once again. let me add that I am not the only person that disagreed with Moxie. But for some reason, she chose me to focus on today.

                But ya know what dimplz? If it bothers her that much, then I will just back off. I have obviously overstepped some emotional boundary.

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10

                • P. Says:

                  It’s your day, C. Yesterday it’s was Dina’s. A few days ago, it was Vox’s. A couple of weeks ago, it was my turn (and not for the first time). And in the past, Dimplz has done her time, as has Trouble, Saj, and Jada. One thing I found interesting recently going through my own experience was that all of the women while stoutly defending Moxie also referenced their own experiences having public feuds with her — I’m not sure if any regular female commenter has gone unscathed, even those who now profess to be her BFF or biggest fans. It was like the blog version of Stockholm Syndrome.

                  It’s unfortunate that most vigorous debates end up being personalized — I’d like to think we could all debate an issue, even something about which we strongly disagree, with each other and with Moxie without delving into whether someone is “angry,” “delusional” “compulsive” “lying” or otherwise defective in some way contributing to their singlehood, pathology or all-around miserable life.

                  But until that’s modeled from the top, it’s going to continue to happen frequently. So the options are either to expect that it’s going to happen and let it wash or go away. But Dimplz is right, “She’s certainly not going to change anything for you.”

                  Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6

                  • trouble Says:

                    I’ve disagreed with Moxie, at times, but we’ve never battled on this blog.

                    Do not include me in the group of people who’ve had problems with Moxie, because I’ve never had a conflict with her. We’ve disagreed, sure, but it’s been polite and not hostile.

                    Please don’t misrepresent things, Paula.

                    And, as stated before, if you don’t like it here, there’s an exit.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

                  • DrivingMeNutes Says:

                    I am a male commenter and I was blocked by Moxie. My offense? Sanctimony. That was years ago. Ironically, my comments are now poured over and studied like religious texts. Perhaps we need a support group. Or better yet, a group hug.

                    I felt it. Did you?

                    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

                    • Dimplz Says:

                      Same here. I don’t have Stockholm syndrome Paula. I’ve just seen her grow. She has also wished me well and welcomed me back. Funny how you only mention what backs up your argument. Maybe stop trying to proselytize every woman who comes in here with a chip on their shoulder. When are you going to get it? Don’t speak for me, roller girl.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

                    • trouble Says:

                      You’ve mellowed, you used to be an asshole, DMN. Now, even I am fond of you. ;)

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

                    • Jada Says:

                      I still think you’re douchey. :)

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

                    • Crotch Rocket Says:

                      “you used to be an asshole, DMN.” He’s still an asshole. But now he’s our asshole :-)

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

                    • dimplz Says:

                      OMG I loved that movie.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

                  • Saj Says:

                    Oh I’ve seen the merry go round which is why I don’t really take it personally when it’s my turn and usually I know exactly just what I’ve done to provoke it. I just know today there will be hostile feelings but by tomorrow or the next week it will be all good, rinse repeat.

                    As long as I don’t go into personal attacks though and vice versa then I don’t feel guilty about overreacting or being harsher then I needed to be on a blog.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

                  • Jada Says:

                    My old feud with Moxie wasn’t because I was a commenter. I used to have a blog, a very popular blog actually. And there were some posts I wrote and things I did that positively make me cringe in retrospect. Our feud (for lack of a better word) started when Moxie held a mirror up to my madness and called me out on the crazy, and I couldn’t handle someone dismantling my carefully constructed persona. So I attacked back. And so on and so forth. Eventually, I took down the blog, cleaned up my life, and moved on. Years later I apologized to Moxie for many of the low blows I landed and owned up to my behavior in perpetuating the feud. You could say I was making amends. We ended up both apologizing and realizing how much we are alike, and how much both of us have grown from our interaction, both the good and bad. And a genuine friendship grew out of it.

                    Don’t include me in your examples. I own my behavior and take responsibility for it, and I fully acknowledge that my previous troubles with Moxie were as much my fault as hers You don’t. You want to place all the blame on Moxie.

                    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

                    • P. Says:

                      You included yourself in my examples, Jada — I think you used the word “loathed.”

                      Who knows what the future holds — maybe Moxie and I will end up BFFs like you and some of the others. I’ve extended an olive branch a couple of times, and there are many qualities I genuinely admire about her personally and about this blog. I would say “stranger things have happened,” but I’m not sure that they have, because I haven’t had these kinds of feuds with anyone in my life, either online or IRL.

                      I’ve been a blogger myself for a very long time, and participated in them and other online communities, and I have never seen the level of personal animosity and the need to psychoanalyze come through so strongly anywhere else. If it had happened just once or twice, I’d chalk it up to the volume of online commenters — there are occasionally some bad apples.

                      Willingness to tolerate the attacks appears to have become a condition of regular participation here, and the volume, vehemence and frequency has increased significantly lately, which really diminishes the quality of what has been a very interesting, helpful and meaningful blog for a lot of us.

                      Sure, we can all go away, or never express anything in disagreement with anyone else, but maybe those of you who are supporting Moxie might objectively consider whether the personal attacks are really necessary and conducive to figuring out why anyone is single. As much as I don’t like or disagree with certain people, I don’t derive any pleasure from seeing Moxie take them down — it’s just really distasteful. And when it happens literally every day to someone new (including people whose opinions cover the spectrum), I become less and less inclined to think that my behavior had very much to do with it, which is what you seem to be hoping for.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

                    • Dimplz Says:

                      I’m not as prolific as the rest, so I’m going to keep it simple. We have a topic. You talk about how it relates to you. Ad infinitum. Moxie let’s you voice until she’s had enough. She calls you out for past admissions. You call her unfair for picking on you. Some other person comments using your pattern. They get the same thing done to them. You grab your pitchfork and try to find others who feel as wronged as you do. And you do it all on someone else’s dime. She lets all of these comments through, even the ones that pretty much insult her passive aggressively. You don’t think there’s anything fucked up about what you’re doing. Using someone else’s blog to bitch and moan about them. You’ve got a lot of fucking nerve.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4

                    • P. Says:

                      Dimplz, I have no interest in attacking Moxie or anyone else personally, and if you read my posts carefully, you’ll see that I never make something personal until someone else makes it personal first. I’ve talked about myself when it makes sense to demonstrate a point, and even so, I’ve curtailed that significantly lately because it bothers some people unduly (yet we’re treated to daily installments, for example, about how wonderful and perfect Trouble’s fiancé is. I wouldn’t mind that and would probably be sharing in her happiness if she weren’t one of the people who gets so upset when I post about my life.)

                      But you hit the nail on the head when you said “she calls you out for past admissions.” Yes, she does. Why is that? Who cares? Why would she ever feel the need to call me or anyone else out personally? She’s perfectly capable of defending her advice on its own merit, and as someone writing an advice column, surely she recognizes that people are going to disagree with her advice.

                      It’s so simple, though, to debate the topic and not the person, and she’s made it part of her commenting guidelines, that if she would just enforce it on everyone including herself, she would never have to worry about people bitching and moaning about her on her dime.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 10

                  • Vox Says:

                    Me, I find it funny when Moxie goes off of me as well as others. I call it he “Moxie Meltdown,” and it most certainly is one of the reason I find the blog entertaining. I don’t get mad when she goes off on me and gets personal, because she never even gets it right.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4

                    • Saj Says:

                      P. Paula whatever. It’s going to happen (IE your going to be singled and attacked at some point) and no amount of logic or debate or whatever is going to stop it.

                      As you have noted it happens to most of us. In the beginning I got overly worked up about it and then realized wow I’m getting angry all weekend over some argument on a dating blog? I need to get things in perspective and I know I had made my comments that contributed to the arguments harsher then I needed them to be. But my posting style can be a bit biting and insulting and I try to taper back somewhat on that to avoid feuds. You on the other hand your posting style isn’t insulting as much as just pure sheer volume! Also there is the victim mentality and not owning one ounce of your role in anything which is a bit annoying but I think that’s something pathological and pointing it out to you will do jack shit.

                      If I were you and didn’t like getting attacked I would work on posting less. Try really really hard to say make it no more then 5 posts per topic and I guarantee you that people would get off your back. I agree that it’s hypocritical for Trouble to tell you to shut up when she goes into novels about her personal life and she should knock that off. But I don’t think it’s the content that’s the problem so much as it’s 50 posts saying the same thing.

                      While I agreed with a ton of that C. and Dina were saying until they started going into personal attacks I knew as soon as I saw their posts I could see the trickles in the glasses of waters as the stomps of Moxie were coming Jurassic Park style. I wasn’t surprised things lead to where they did and was more surprised that they were surprised.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

            • Maria Says:

              The petty bickering does not really add a lot to this blog.

              Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0

            • Angeline Says:

              I am a fairly regular commenter, and I have disagreed with Moxie on various posts, without incurring any wrath. I’ll say why I disagree, and somehow manage not to say that this post or this blog adds nothing to the dating advice scene. Somehow I manage to refrain from saying how this point of disagreement is why Moxie does or does not date/fuck/have a happy life to make my point, and it annoys the fuck out of me when other people do it. I’m not a BFF, we don’t know each other, she and I have very little in common, but I do hugely enjoy the back and forth and the discussions, especially from the guys. It’s a peek behind the curtain like no other. That they continue to comment in spite of the invective heaped upon them is surprising, but I’m glad they do.

              She doesn’t have a set of rules she has to meet for whether each post serves some After School Special moral lesson. If she thinks the idea or question is interesting, and wants to toss it around the room and see what kind of ideas and insights it kicks up, who’s to say whether it meets some kind of Importance Meter reading. Commenting that you don’t think a topic adds to the discourse on dating and relationships is an opinion, a flawed one, and an arrogant, hostile one. Stepping away from it a few comments later, and saying ‘I was just making an observation, jeez you can’t take a joke/jab’ is a passive-aggressive way to criticize without taking responsibility for it. That’s why you come off as angry and hostile.

              Your comments also got interspersed with that dina thing/whatever it was, and you were (or appeared to be) agreeing with and signing on to her/its whacked out and truly hostile rantings, so I think that’s why you got maybe a little more heat than you deserved. But you also earned some on your own.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                The funny thing is that they all truly believe this is about me. Listen to them. Saj, Paula, Vox, Trouble. The topic could be that the sky is blue. They’d find a reason to bicker, brag, overshare and compulsively comment. It stopped being about me a while ago. They’re that girlfriend that many women have that eventually get cut off because they’ve become toxic. So they come here.

                .

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

                • Selena Says:

                  I’m waiting for you to write another juicy topic so we can all move on from this. ;)

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

                  • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                    The topic doesn’t matter. These people will continue to find a reason to talk about themselves and project their misery on to everyone and anyone who will listen. Sorry. I’m happy. I’m done being dragged down by this ridiculousness. I’m not around as much anymore and can’t be closely moderating comments.

                    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4

                    • Joey Giraud Says:

                      Their your crowd, Moxie, the core of your commentariat. Why diss on your base?

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  13. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I thought this post would draw PUA like flies to shit but instead it seems to have triggered the false bravado set.

    I think Moxie’s advice is pretty good. I think in real life, I have success being like the man Trouble describes as her boyfriend. In my “market,” having officer stripes is useless but my profession carries a lot of weight even with varying degrees of financial success and stability.

    The problem is, while you can ooze credibility and quiet confidence in real life, it’s actually very hard to convey that on the internet without turning off a few people, especially if you’re not a poet. If I were the OP, I’d err in favor of being douchey over being weak. If you’re worried about that, you’re doing it wrong because the point is not to care so much. The downside is that you’ll be rejected allegedly by Saj and Vox and other anonymous internet commenters. The upside is that the majority of women will at least be intrigued and you will have their attention. But, yeah, you will have to take it from there.

    PS where can I go to find these attractive women allegedly looking only for casual sex? I suppose they’re locked in a room somewhere with the “relationship-minded” guys.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    • Vox Says:

      Being “douchey” and being “weak” aren’t the only options. That’s a false dilemma.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    • Saj Says:

      I just turned 30 but man oh man I’ve run into these guys who’ve tried to force or fake the “please be intrigued by me” persona.

      It usually goes like this. Man introduces himself and hints at interest but not enough to where you know for sure. He’ll try to fish compliments out of you but rarely give any in return except for maybe a hint here and there or in the form of a backhanded compliment (compliment that sounds more like an insult).

      It’s very clear he has an agenda but when asked what it might be you will get evasive answers. While some girls start to see this as a challenge to ‘figure this guy out” I get irritated and leave. Man tries to come back a few more times later pulling the same schtick hoping to maintain my attention/interest. Man will try to get something out of me and keep hinting at it and hinting at it (as these guys to maintain their “mystery” never just say what they want, until I get angry and tell them to fuck off.

      After a while people just acting vague for the sake of being intriguing or mysterious is headache inducing and makes guys who are actually clear and present like a breath of fresh air in comparison.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    • P. Says:

      >>>while you can ooze credibility and quiet confidence in real life, it’s actually very hard to convey that on the internet without turning off a few people

      You know what works for me in that regard is the matching questions (I know OKC and Chemistry have them — not sure about Match). I’ve answered several hundred questions, and if a guy has too, I’ve found that the people they send me as being a good match end up sharing my values and the personality types I’m looking for, even if the chemistry isn’t there (sorry to invoke that word, DMN). You can fake a lot in your profile, or have someone else write it for you, but it’s hard to adopt someone else’s personality when you’re answering several hundred questions.

      The other thing is that some guys are just boring. You can bring your game to writing something about yourself that doesn’t require you to be a poet or a douche. It’s amazing how just having a basic command of grammar, the ability to use spell check, and a competent sense of humor will elevate your profile far above the rest. Some guys either want to be secretive or are so shut down that they can’t disclose anything that gives any sense of personality or distinctiveness. With most women getting contacted by many more men than they can possibly go out with, you have to do something to elevate yourself above the rest, which doesn’t necessarily mean lying or douchy manipulation.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    • trouble Says:

      The problem is, while you can ooze credibility and quiet confidence in real life, it’s actually very hard to convey that on the internet without turning off a few people, especially if you’re not a poet

      It’s weird, because my guy is not at all verbally adept, but he managed to convey an attractive level of passion and enthusiasm about life in his profile, and yet, you’re right, most guys seem to struggle with this online.

      I would say that the key is to:

      1) Focus on overall positivity…don’t bitch about dating or reveal bitterness about the opposite sex.

      2) Don’t apologize for yourself or issue disclaimers…to me, disclaimers just scream “insecurity” and “issues.”

      3) Display enthusiasm about your self and your passions. If you like to read, list a couple of your most recent reads that you enjoyed, and why. If you like to travel, talk about the favorte place you’ve been; if you like to cook, brag about your best dish. My guy shared that his favorite place he’s visited so far was Nepal, and also shared 3 of the most recent books he’d read, which showed a broad range of intellectual curiousity.

      4) Show that you have a sense of humor and that you don’t take yourself too seriously.

      Get a female friend (or a couple of them) to read your ad and critique it, and take their comments seriously.

      My guy shared that he loved the sound of ice cream trucks in Florida in December (because that’s such a summer thing everywhere else). That he was starting his own business, and that he’s obsessed with parentheses.

      2

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Thank you for the offer. Though everyone including me could use constructive criticism, I suppose, I actually do great online. In fact, I ooze more credibility and confidence online than I do in real life if that’s even possible (if you could help with my horrendous real life personality, of course, that may actually be helpful.)

        But, seriously, thanks. I already do most of the stuff you suggest. Plus, I’m pretty handy with the written word and, of course, am as cute as the dickens (though not good enough for saj and vox, though. We get it.).

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

        • trouble Says:

          Well, what kind of catch am I? I apparently think that counting starts with 2.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

      • Saj Says:

        Online where I met my husband and developed a friendship he did just fine as well at conveying his personality. What I appreciated is that he didn’t keep trying to force sex talk like so many guys online try to do but made it a point to try to sell the stuff he found out I was into (like casually mentioning how he just cooked himself a great dinner, how he just cleaned his bathroom, his two cats, some tv show I liked that he also started watching).

        There was no mystery just a normal positive guy and when I would talk to him about difficult subjects he handled it with grace. I’ve dealt with enough guys online who throw out feelers that they care but when it really came down to it they didn’t and I always sensed that which is why attraction/interest never developed.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      • Mark Says:

        I think that Trouble’s responses come pretty close. Although I’ll add a disclaimer becuse I’m a guy.

        Stepping back just a little, It might be more broady seen as having “IT”. Not information technology, nor the furry guy in the Addams Family. I mean IT. You might quibble about some of the specifics, after all, each gal has different likes and dislikes. So that part is a matter of personal taste. One common denominator is confidence. Confidence without crossing over into arrogance. Confidenceis attrative, arrogance is boorish. One or two posters gave pretty good stories about what that means.

        In essence, they have their act together on all fronts (professional, personal, financial, spiritual, emotional etc). That doesn’t mean they are the funniest, most wealthy, most attractive, or the like. However, they make the most of what they have got and are comfortable and secure in that position. Because of that high self assuradness, they really don’t see the need to trumpet those qualities at every turn to anyone who will listen. They may talk about it a little, just to give you a taste of who they are, there just not overbearing about it. They also may see it as action speaking louder than words.

        Yet something to consider is that these qualities in aggregate might get lost as you view the snapshot of the man along with the myriad of other profiles. Unfortunately, that’s the tough part. separating wheat frome chaffe. Unfortunately, there is no ready solution to that issue.

        From the guy’s POV, Clara Bow had IT. Sophia Loren also. Jackie Kennedy Onasis had the ability to make almost all the men in a room feel that she was in fact really talking with him. And that made the guy feel special. That may be one reason why the Mona Lisa was sent to the US in 1962. Because she was able to persuade the French to let the painting leave France for the first time.

        Again…IT. you may or may not be able to define it, but you are pretty sure you know it when you see it.

        Nice topic.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • Dan Says:

        See re: verbally adept this is what I found. A couple of women have told me I am a great writer and I think it is because I can write what I am thinking in a form everyone can understand. However, I had to work on it because my job requires good writing skills. In fact, I took me hitting rock bottom to become serious about developing my writing skills–one partner refused to work with me because he felt my writing skills were not up to par. What I noticed about becoming a better writer was that it made me become a better conversationalist. Also, in my quest to become a better writier I began reading a lot more about various topics other than law books which allowed me to be able to converse about other topics.

        I’ve always felt that the more detailed a person’s profile was and the more they wrote the more serious they were about online dating. To me, a short profile means they are too busy, they have trouble expressing themselves and/or are quick to move on. Also, they may not know what they are looking for and are more prone to serial date.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

        • Joey Giraud Says:

          What I noticed about becoming a better writer was that it made me become a better conversationalist.

          Composing your thoughts add depth to them. Turning your thoughts into linear narratives helps clarify them.

          Pretty much the main reason I write online is to work out ideas, not because anyone else may get something from it.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    • Andrew Says:

      It’s the personalizing thing. If I come on strong, it will be against a position, never against the person. I have never made a judgement about anyone on this board. However, I have had all sorts of ad hominen attacks leveled at me by many, including Moxie on previous posts. Now that’s real anger, not the misinterpretations of someone not agreeing with your point. Moxie, telling someone to know their place is absolutely way out of bounds, and represents real anger.

      Frankly there is a reason people have a hard time dating. They really need to look in the mirror, figuratively, and figure how they come off to other people. Angry, High strung, Self-absorbed, delusional, unfriendly, attitude and poor social and communication skills are just not what people want to deal with after a long hard day of work.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

      • trouble Says:

        Moxie, telling someone to know their place is absolutely way out of bounds, and represents real anger.

        A blog is like someone’s home. You don’t walk into someone’s home and wipe your feet all over their couch a la Rick James. That’s what Moxie means about “knowing your place.” You’re a guest here. No one is obligated to post comments here. If you don’t like it here, let me be the first to invite you to fuck right on off.

        I mean that. None of us need these little petulant temper tantrums from online drama queens about how they have a right to express their precious little selves on the internet.

        Paula, Andrew, Dina, C, and all of the other internet clowns: You are adding NOTHING here, and your attacks on Moxie simply serve to distract from the conversations about people’s issues. I, and I’m sure, many many other commenters here, aren’t interested in hearing about how your widdle feewings got huwt and how mean Moxie is.

        I read and write comments here because I like what Moxie has to say. I am not interested in your secrewed up perceptions of life, since all of you have major issues, and several of you are fucking crazy.

        Why are you single? Because each and every one of you is an overdramatic buffoon with delusions of importance. Goddamn…talk about screwed up perceptions.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 13

        • Saj Says:

          Trouble let me be the first one to tell you to knock off the mean girl act. They have as much of a right to post here as you do and I find their comments more times then not more interesting to me personally then yours.

          You are not a moderator here as well so you can stop clinging to the queen bee while you kick sand in the faces of other posters. It’s petty and highschoolish.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 6

          • Cricri Says:

            Of course, Trouble is a better person. I mean she’s writing whole essays about “her man” online so you know what’s up. I haven’t seen that since high school as well and was quite amazed someone would mention their boyfriend in quasi every comment they post here. Seriously, sounds somewhat conceited and with a taste of condescension. But anyway, people are free to post, this is why we’re here. If some want to go on and on about their boyfriend, dog, video games and casual sex is making them happy, let them. And questioning the logic doesn’t mean attacking someone. As far as I know, Moxie is not Sarah Palin and shouldn’t pull the “you’re a bitter woman” when people point out the issues that might arise with the rhetoric. I just hope we can all participate in the creation of knowledge here and no mere comment on what is served But in the end, Moxie remains the one in charge and depending on how open she is to growing from all those comments and suggestions.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

  14. Tall Girl Big City Says:

    Most of these comments seem to be saying exhibit confidence. And, if you are looking to get laid, exhibit PUA behavior. Ok… well… that will all probably work to some extent.

    But you have to decide what confidence is for you and how that works. Your own version of “I’m a catch”. No one can really tell you that. They can tell you tricks, or approaches, and those might help and get you so far. And sometimes you gotta fake it till you make it.

    But Trouble nailed it – there’s something incredibly attractive about a man who can say they are a catch and mean it.

    I’d like to add something I find attractive (and most people, men or women, do) – Know what you want. Not just what you want out of life, but how you plan on getting it. Know what you find interesting in the world and be able to talk about it. Know what you want to eat for dinner, even… so that if she asks what you are in the mood for you have an answer. Just able to offer input on a conversation. Women tend to bond through having conversations. Men tend to bond by doing activities together that don’t necessarily require conversation – sports, watching sports, comparing tech gadgets, video games even – all based on doing ‘a thing’. So being able to talk to a woman & ask good questions as well as add input? It’s good stuff.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    • Selena Says:

      It’s hard to answer the question what women find attractive because different women want different things. One might wish to have a family within 5 years. Another may not want children, but prefer a man able to travel with her. One woman may want a boyfriend, another may be in a place where she prefers to date casually. So along with Tall Girl Big City’s great observation of knowing what you want out of life, I’d extend it to knowing how you want a woman to fit into your life. Do you see yourself with a family in 5 years? Target yourself to the women who are looking for that. Are you a guy who likes to be out and about doing things? Going places? Work that into your profile/conversations. Do you want a girlfriend? Monogamy? What qualities does your potential girlfriend have that makes you choose her? Do you have the qualities that type of woman would appreciate? In other words, if you want someone who “fits” you, you need to assess how well you would fit them.

      D wrote he started getting alot more online responses when he changed his profile from what he had to offer, to more along the lines of what he liked in a woman asking the question “Does this describe you?” I can see how doing this is a positive (not demanding) way could attract the kind of women who want what you want.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

      • D Says:

        One other thing. The things I said I wanted are also things that could be seen as compliments. For example, I said I wanted someone who was professional, energetic, cute, fit and especially intelligent. Most people in my demographic like to think they are all of these things. (Including myself, for that matter)

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  15. Jef Says:

    What do women find attractive in men? Money and a large penis.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

  16. Douchebag Says:

    ME!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  17. ollie Says:

    Douchey sells. Listen to how many women say they don’t like men who are too nice. That’s the real false dillema.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

    • Vox Says:

      “False dilemma” refers to claiming you must choose between two options, when in fact there is a third and fourth option (and perhaps more).

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  18. bill Says:

    After 60+ comments no one has said. “I am attracted to the kind of person that will give me the kind of emotional/support/caring/intimacy I desire…”

    Everyone has a type but it seems people are willing to settle for how they treat you long term vs the first initiative interactions.

    From experience it doesn’t matter how they are in the beginning because that is not a true representation of who they are. What matters is 6th months later.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    • trouble Says:

      Bullshit. I described, in tangible terms, in this FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD exactly the sort of emotional support, caring and intimacy that I desire from a man. In fact, I used those EXACT TERMS: caring, intimacy, and support.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

      • Tall Girl Says:

        Yes you did Trouble. :)

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • D Says:

        Sort of. The first part of your comment talks about how confident he is, even saying “I know I have a lot to offer the right person.”

        Later you talk about how sweet he is, but he probably didn’t come clean the gutters after the first date. This reiterates the gist of OP: confidence is what attracts women, but comfort keeps them around. Comfort before attraction == friend zone.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  19. Kay Says:

    Confidence! All women are attracted to confidence. Whether the guy is short, ugly, a scumbag or a douche, if he’s confident, a woman will find him attractive. I’m not stating that all women are attracted to all of these type of men, I’m certainly not, but no matter what a man has going on, if he exudes confidence, he’ll attract someone.

    Personally, second to confidence is a guy who’s happy with his life, someone who isn’t looking for a woman to complete him. Enjoy your life, have fun, own it, and women (men or women) will be attracted to that fun loving, smiling, happy, and CONFIDENT person.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  20. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Their your crowd, Moxie, the core of your commentariat. Why diss on your base?

    Because they all exemplify the very behavior they are claiming to dislike.. They all soooooo feel bullied…but the minute they each smell blood in the water, they throw themselves gleefully on the pile on and casually toss of their judgmental, condescending or down right offensive and inflammatory crap. Only when someone turns it around and does it to them do they cry “bully.” They are not the core of my anything. They are here for themselves – to get attention, to complain, to poison other people or to just project their own personal misery – not to help anybody else.

    Take a look at that thread from D’s letter a few weeks ago and how those same women thrilled at calling him dirty, a whore, etc. Listen to how they all swooped in and chastised him, calling him names.Please. Look at how quickly it went from being about me to being about Trouble. And PS? Trouble is hardly the only woman who comments here who lords her significant other or her marriage over others and uses it as as “proof” that their approach/mentality is “right.” Only when they see that they have back up will they brazenly call that person out. Jesus. How many times have those very women thrown their gasoline on the fires? If they see others kicking somebody, they don’t care who it is, they’ll join in just because they *have* to share their two cents. You know. ….because they’re just trying to understand or help. But that’s not “mean girl” behavior. Nope. Not at all.

    They’re full of it. They have no problem with the mean girl behavior…as long as they’re part of the clique and not outside of it or a target of said behavior. There’s been plenty of mean girl/bully crap directed at people here. Yet none of these women have ever ONCE stood up to those people. The truly funny part of all of it is that at any given time, they’re quite busy jogging all over each other’s faces while they wait for someone else to be the target.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

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