The Greatest Dating Lies Ever Told

Name: WHY THEY SAY THEY WILL CALL AND DON’Tquestion-marks22
State: NY
Age: 45
Comment: QUESTION FOR MEN:  WHY DO MEN SAY THEY WILL GIVE YOU A CALL WHEN THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF DOING SO? Why not just say it was nice to meet you and then just run away and get out of there?  Woman don’t like to be misled and maybe they thought the date did work out to some extent. Sometimes a 2nd date is needed, or third to decide honestly, if he wants to see her again.  Men shouldn’t be sooo quick to pull away b/c they might have a good thing/person but just not know it yet b/c it takes time to get to know someone before they open up.

 

I agree that people – men and women – cut and run far too quickly. I think women are more likely to give a guy a second date to feel him and the possible attraction out.

However, I don’t think someone saying “I’ll call you” is always a case of them misleading the other person.  I think the times people say “I’ll call you” and aren’t 100% confident that they will call fall in to three categories:

1. They sense the man/woman wants to hear it or is somehow prolonging the good bye. It’s a way to get out of the situation without any further discomfort.

2. They’re on the fence and think there’s a possibility they might call. Then, once they have some distance and do a little post-date analysis, they decide that they don’t wish to pursue anything more.

3. They had sex with the man/woman and want to present themselves as honorable when they aren’t.

The “I’ll Call You” line is not the only lie that men and women tell in order to walk away gracefully or without blame. Here are a few others:

“We can do that next time.” - I’d guess that, in most but not necessarily all cases, they know there will never be a “next time.” Use of “next time” is a great way to convince your date that you’re really interested. That way they will be more pliable and less on guard. I don’t trust the Next Timers. Know how I’d know when there was going to be a next time? When there was a next time.

“I didn’t get your text/email.” or “I replied to your text/email!” -While there is always a chance that the internetz or cell phone ate your message, more than likely your message was received and they ignored it. Especially if the message contained any kind of pointed question or tone.

“Had a major work/family/medical emergency. Can we reschedule?” - Again, it’s entirely possible that Great Aunt Gemma passed away or their father had a heart attack. But is it likely? No. An excuse like this is perfect because it’s not like someone is going to challenge it. I should qualify this by saying that if this excuse comes from someone you haven’t met yet or been out with once or twice, it’s more likely that this is a lie. Translation: Something better came up, and since I don’t know you well/haven’t met you, I have no idea if meeting you will make up for turning down this other offer.”

“I’m not looking for a relationship right now.” - This isn’t so much a full on lie as it is a half truth. What they mean is,  “I’m not looking for a relationship with you.” Not to be confused with, “I need more time” or “I’m enjoying where things are going and getting to know you, but not sure if I’m ready for a commitment.”

“I’m not sleeping with anyone else.” - People tell us this because that’s what we think the other person wants to hear. We also say that so that we don’t compromise our chances of getting laid or going bareback. If there is no expressed exclusivity, there’s a really good chance that they are, in fact, sleeping with someone else. Either that or they don’t wish for that option to be off the table. If they wanted to sleep with only you, they’d commit to you.

“I’m too busy with work/school/my book club to date/have a relationship.” - Their job is not the reason they aren’t in a relationship. More often than not, that’s an excuse. What that really means is, “I don’t wish to give up whatever free time I have to someone else. I like my freedom.” Or it means, “I’ve been burnt and too afraid to get back out there.”

“I want to see you but I’m really busy.” – Eh. Usually “too busy” means “not interested.” It’s a way to keep you on the hook because either they don’t have the guts to dump you or want to keep you around for a Break In Case of Emergency Lay.

“I’m happy being single.” – Okay. This one might be a smidge controversial. I do believe that many people are happy being single. It’s the people who go out of their way to announce how happy they are being single that I question.

“I’m single by choice.” - Adorbs. But no. While some people might be single by choice and mean it, the people who announce it are just justifying why, after Lord knows how many dates, nothing has stuck.

“My girl/guy/relationship is different” or other variations of that statement. - Mmmm. No. You choose to believe that because that somehow makes YOU sound more desirable or impressive or that something about you made them alter  typical (read: unattractive) behavior. In actuality, you’re not different. Either your guy or girl didn’t actually make a specific change for you and you just think they did or your guy or girl just tolerates your crap because they had few to no options.

“We waited X dates to sleep together.” – I’ll call Bravo Sierra on at least half of these cases. Some men will decrease the number of dates they waited so they can impress their guy friends. Some women will increase the number of dates so their friends don’t judge them or so they can feel superior. Lame on both counts.

“We met through friends.” – Some, sure. But the “we met through friends” line is also common amongst people who met online but don’t want anyone to know they had to go “slumming” to find a mate.

“I’d like to be friends.” - When a guy says it, I think what he really means is, “Please don’t hate me.” He doesn’t want a woman out there with a grudge or negative impression of him. He might very well be sincere in expressing his guilt or in his apology. But he doe4sn’t really want to be friends. He doesn’t want to hang out or keep in touch. He just doesn’t want the woman to hate him. When women say it, I think many times they mean it in the traditional sense. They want to maintain a relationship with the guy because they genuinely enjoyed them. Some times, though, what they really mean is, “Let’s spend some platonic time together so you can see how great I am and maybe you’ll change your mind.” Men use this line with this intention as well. It’s less common that either gender means, “Let’s stay in touch and hang out.”

“I’m afraid to be hurt/vulnerable.” - Cliche alert! Listen. You get a window of time after a bad break up to lick your wounds and feel sorry for yourself. But if you’re still banging this drum a couple years later? You’re just looking for attention or sympathy or hoping to victimize yourself so as to avoid judgment for bad decisions.

“I’m in an open relationship” or “We have an arrangement.” - Nothing got me to hit the delete button on a message faster than this. I do believe that many people do have “arrangements” and that they work for the couple. But if they don’t approach the date by telling you outright what the deal is, they’re likely lying. The couples I know in open relationships all have one rule in common. Don’t have sex with the same person more than a couple times. So if this man or woman tells you that they’re in an open relationship, and you and they have sex every couple months for an ongoing amount of time? They’re probably lying. They just don’t want you to get attached.

“I just don’t think we clicked romantically.” - I’d guess that most of the common variations of this reason are lies as well. Translation: I didn’t find you attractive. You want to hear that from someone? I don’t. I’m fine with the lie. But push someone to be honest and that’s what you’ll get.

“I’m not looking for a relationship right now but I like hanging out with you.” - Translation: I’ll have sex with you, but I won’t date you. You’re good enough for the occasional hook up but I wouldn’t introduce you to my friends.

“I’m okay with it being just sex.” - Now, I’ve told this lie before. I thought I meant it. Most women do. Yes, I said women because I don’t think most men have a problem being “used” for sex. Eventually, the woman who isn’t ok with the arrangement will try to back end her way in to a relationship with the guy by withholding the one thing she knows he wants. That’s not a great way to start a relationship. If you get offended that he doesn’t call in advance to set up your booty dates, or if it bothers you that he doesn’t make personal inquiries or keeps conversations impersonal or doesn’t retain anything you say, then you’re not okay with it being “just sex.”

Any others?

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
Share
, , , , , , , ,

85 Responses to “The Greatest Dating Lies Ever Told”

  1. loveliee Says:

    I have a serious question then. When someone says any of these things to you, how do you guys respond? Do you ignore, call them out for it, or just say thanks but no thanks? I’d think that “I really want to see you, but I’m busy” may seem genuine on the surface, but how do you respond to something like that?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      You just say, “Okay.” You don’t debate it. Then you mentally disengage as best you can. If they follow up, they were sincere. If they don’t, they were lying.

      Calling someone out on it just makes you look defensive and insecure and crazy.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0

      Reply

      • loveliee Says:

        If they follow up, they were sincere. If they don’t, they were lying.
        ^Thanks for this. :)

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

        Reply

      • Howard Says:

        Not that simple. People who like using these lies are often the worst behaved, when it gets done to them. What goes around, comes around and people hate it when it happens.

        I would like to think that we can stop more than 50% of these situations from occuring if we nip things in the bud early by having a greater sense of what we really want, and having better empathy.

        The hard part of these lies is when one feels, that one has invested in. I imagine that it could be harder for women because the initiator of relationships is often the guy. It always begs the question. “If you know you weren’t sure, why did you take me to this place emotionally?”

        The one thing about being older is that I prefer it black these days. You don’t need to sugar and cream that coffee for me. Just throw it in my face and be done. I hate when people insult my intelligence with this type of transparent nonsense. Trust me, I am always in the mode of “Thanks for saving me the hearache later. Next!”

        The real trick though, to these things, is to see it coming, and disengae before it happens. That is a good trick that is not very easy, because our ego tends to get the better of us.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

        Reply

  2. dimplz Says:

    This just reminds me of the Friends episode when Chandler keeps telling the woman he will call her, but it’s a compulsion of his. I guess sometimes it’s just a thing to say. This is why they say, “Talk is cheap.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPU2hhchU9w

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • Chester Says:

      I was thinking of the very same Friends episode. Thanks for sharing the link for that! I captures in a humorous way how the discomfort of final goodbuy is aleviated with a “I call you” or “let’s do this again”.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      Reply

  3. nasubi Says:

    Sometimes the “dating lies” are truths:
    I recently went out on a lovely date with a guy. I kind of panicked at the end when it came to the good night kiss. (It was my first date out of a long term relationship) I blurted out something along the lines of, “I’d really like to see you again but I don’t think I’m ready to date yet”. My date responded with “Well, you can call me or I can call you”. I never heard from him again.
    I didn’t call him as I really don’t know what to say. Any suggestions?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • Kay Says:

      He probably meant you should call when you’re ready to date. He definitely isn’t going to call someone with whom there’s no potential, for now anyway. It seems you’re not ready so there’s really no need for you to call him, or he you.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

      Reply

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      You told him you weren’t ready to date yet. His response was confusing, but I think he was trying to leave things open-ended so you’d tell him you’d call when you were ready. What would be the point of him calling before then?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      Reply

    • Howard Says:

      Why would you expect to hear from him. The ball is in your court as you pretty much demanded from your outburst. If you want anything to go from here, you have to reopen the conversation. And it doesn’t put you in a vulnerable position, if you are worried about that. This is the classic narrative where a woman seems to be demanding, “I want to end up with the guy that tries the hardest as opposed to the most compatible guy”

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

      Reply

  4. P. Says:

    Yep, pretty much all of these are lies. It’s too bad so many people are so cowardly that they have to keep spreading them. Is it really that hard to keep your mouth shut and say nothing rather than have what comes out be a lie?

    Everyone’s so afraid of awkwardness or not being liked that they think filling the silence with lies is preferable, but most of these come out before you know someone well enough that it really matters what they think about you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

    Reply

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “Is it really that hard to keep your mouth shut and say nothing rather than have what comes out be a lie?” You have to say something at the end of the date, and women have taught men that it’s much better to lie and then ignore them later (as women do to us when giving us their numbers–or a fake number) than reject people to their faces. Plus, while many women would accept a polite brush-off, many will argue and cause a scene–and there’s that tiny fraction that will go batshit-fucking-crazy if a guy rejects them straighforwardly.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

      Reply

      • P. Says:

        Well, as the OP asked, “Why not just say it was nice to meet you?” I’ve done that a number of times, accompanied by a handshake instead of more physical contact, and it usually conveys the message. I’ve had it done to me, and I understand it as well.

        If it doesn’t work, what is to stop you from saying “I don’t think there’s really anything else to discuss — I’m sorry it didn’t work out” and walking away? It takes two to tango, and no one can cause a scene without your participation.

        I don’t think you can solely blame women for teaching men that they should lie. Men engage in similar behavior (like the other post today…not saying Walker was creepy, but sometimes a guy just won’t take a hint and becomes pretty creepy about it.) I had a guy who I gave my real number to, because I was considering going out with him. He called when I was out of town camping and away from my cell for a couple of days, and called something like 5 times during that time. If he had only called once, I probably would have gone out with him when I got back, but calling so many times just screamed needy, obsessive and potentially stalker-ish. It made me wish I’d given him a fake number, but I couldn’t have gotten away with it since he wanted to call me right there to put my number in his phone.

        Basically, I don’t think we should let the behavior of a few outliers dictate what we think is the right thing to do. Avoiding any hint of confrontation may be the easy route, but knowing you’ve been lied to causes more pain, I think.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 9

        Reply

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Paula, you get told the truth all the time on here and then proceed to bulldoze people with their opinions and debate them as to how their reality or opinions are wrong. Why would a guy bother being anything but vague with you or just avoid you?

          I had a guy who I gave my real number to, because I was considering going out with him. He called when I was out of town camping and away from my cell for a couple of days, and called something like 5 times during that time.

          *Something* like 5 times? Any time someone says that someone did or said something “something like.;…” what they really mean is “i have no exact recollection.” You gave the guy a number that you don’t use all that often. You were “considering” going out with him. You weren’t all that interested in the first place, but you figured you’d give him what is the equivalent to a dead number just to see if he’d call. So much for honesty, huh? You could have just taken his number. But no. You gave him yours knowing you weren’t all that interested. That’s dishonest, no?

          This reminds me of an obnoxious story I read yesterday. Basically the blogger was yapping about how some guy called her as she was getting ready for work. When she didn’t answer he sent her a text. She figured she’d reply later. The guy continued to text her throughout the day because she wasn’t responding.

          Basically, the woman telling this story could have simply replied to his first text. But she didn’t. Instead she just let the guy – who she clearly wasn’t interested in in the first place – make a fool of himself so she could take to the internet and mock the guy and so she could feel better about herself.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5

          Reply

          • P. Says:

            Moxie — I love how you just automatically jump to false assumption after false assumption where I’m concerned. And since you respond to every post to keep the debate going, I’m going to presume you bulldoze your dates as well and automatically presume they’re lying and dishonest.

            I met the guy in a bar, and we had a pleasant chat, although fairly brief. I wasn’t the most interested I’ve ever been in someone, but I wasn’t repulsed either — it was definitely in the “I would need to get to know him a little more before I could decide” category. I’m a woman that can’t always decide right away, like many of the woman who post here have said — it’s not all about looks and first impressions for me. (I was also in the midst of figuring out where things were at with someone I was already actively dating.)

            I gave him the number I use every day — my personal mobile phone. He called three days after I saw him, when I was on a camping trip in a remote area and only turning on my phone and checking messages once a day for emergencies (I had also forgotten my charger, and was hoping to get by without buying a new one). I got the first message in the middle of a work day (I know where he works, and it’s unlikely that he would have been able to chat), so planned to call him back the following evening, as that particular evening I was not available.

            In the intervening 48 hours, he called approximately four to six times. I don’t have an exact recollection, but since my personal practice is to give anyone 48 hours to call back before I start concluding that they’re not going to, anything more than once seems like a lot. He also knew I was going to be away, since we had discussed it in our conversation, so the whole thing definitely put him in creepster territory. Then, when he saw me at that bar again, he turned around and walked out before I could go up to him and explain why I didn’t call him back.

            Sorry, Dimplz, if this was more TMI. Perhaps if Moxie wasn’t always accusing me of being dishonest, I wouldn’t have to provide so many details.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 11

            Reply

            • dimplz Says:

              If you didn’t provide so many details, perhaps no one would be questioning you. See how that works?

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5

              Reply

              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                Here’s why stories like that and the one on that blog make the hairs on my neck stand up. Woman A seems to only show interest in men that pay little to no attention to them. When a guy who is available comes along, they find a reason to not just disqualify him, but shame him. Reasons like…he called too many times.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3

                Reply

                • P. Says:

                  I’m curious, Moxie, how your advice to Walker squares with what you’re telling me.

                  It’s nice to get attention from men. But that attention can seem overwhelming if it is given too quickly or in an inordinate amount. “Quickly” asking questions could make you appear over eager. That would explain why the woman pulled back. She may have seen you had had an initial interest. But the minute you started firing questions at her, her natural instincts kicked in and she recoiled and shut down.

                  That’s a perfect description of what happened with this guy. It was nice that he appeared interested enough to take my number and actually follow up and use it. It was not nice at all that he called so many times….and I definitely recoiled.

                  Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9

                  Reply

                  • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                    You created your situation by not just sending a text and saying you’d call him when you’d get back. Maybe he called once and his caller ID clicked in. Maybe he lost a signal and had to call back. There are a number of reasons why he could have called “multiple” times. Having a ten minute phone conversation with him to feel him out wouldn’t have killed you. You weren’t interested enough to do that. So you’re creating a situation and painting him as a creep to justify why you didn’t give the available guy a chance. Meanwhile, you engage in a god knows how long/extended a chat with a guy who admitted that he fucked around with his sister. That didn’t repel you. But omigod this guy you met in a bar showed up 4 times on your caller ID??? PREDATOR!!!

                    See the inconsistency? When you actually meet a creep -a real one – you make the effort. But when a guy who may or may not be a creep shows interest, you come up with all kinds of reasons why you should blow him off.

                    The bottom line is…if you were interested, you would have have followed up with him in a timely and considerate way. You weren’t interested. That’s it. And that’s not being honest. Not with him. Not with yourself. Not with us. So let go of this “people should be honest” hang up, because you’re not honest.

                    What were you going to say to him that night after he called all those times, when you ran in to him at the bar? That you never called because he creeped you out? Doubtful that you’d intentionally rattle the cage of someone you felt was creepy. You’d have lied and said something about your trip and got busy and gee I thought it would be too late to call.

                    The difference between you and Walker is that he’s genuinely available, if a bit misguided. You’re emotionally unavailable, but think you are.

                    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 5

                    Reply

                    • P. Says:

                      Predator — your words, not mine. I said his conduct was creepy and potentially stalkerish, which I stand by. You still don’t seem to understand the difference between judging conduct and judging the person.

                      The chat with the guy who fucked his sister did repel me — that’s why I wrote in about it, remember? And I cut it off after that, blocking him after he contacted me again using a different profile (I suppose that’s completely normal behavior too).

                      What I was going to say to him at the bar? “I was camping and couldn’t return your call right away.” Truthful. If he continued the conversation or asked me out again? “I’m seeing someone.” Truthful.

                      The difference between Walker and me? He’s a man and I’m a woman. You’re on a “look how many fucked up women there are in the dating world” kick and no one’s going to budge you from that script. I looked at Private Man’s blog, and am frankly appalled that you would quote him at all, much less approvingly, while talking about how many bitter female dating bloggers there are out there. Why don’t you just declare your blog part of the honorary “manosphere” and be done with it?

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 15

                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      You’re on a “look how many fucked up women there are in the dating world” kick

                      No, I’m on a “Some of you people really need to stop wasting everyone’s time” kick. And you’re a time waster. You spend all kinds of time talking about how everyone else should act and how distorted everyone else’s opinions are. Meanwhile, you’re drastically lacking in self-awareness while at the same time so painfully transparent to most who read here. You cling to tiny distinctions in arguments and semantics and you go off on tangents in an attempt to distract everyone – and yourself – from what’s really going on. Yes, I psychoanalyze, and I’m quite good at it.

                      You’re unavailable, you don’t want a relationship. You sabotage yourself constantly. Stop trying to suck up the spotlight and make it about me or men or the manosphere or whatever. The problem is within you.

                      Stop taking up so much space and oxygen around here, because there are plenty of people who ARE available and trying to do they work they need to do to find someone. You don’t want anybody to figure their shit out. Nor do you want anybody to grow or be happy. You want everyone to stay stuck.

                      You’re opinion of me means less than nothing.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 5

                    • P. Says:

                      Well, whether I want a relationship, am emotionally unavailable or sabotage myself or whatnot…I’m in a relationship. Yay me. Not going to jinx it by talking about it further (as I’m sure you would advise) or give you fodder to beat me over the head with it when and if it doesn’t work out (like you did with Vox).

                      My dating and relationship experience is still what it is, so don’t expect any goopy “once I figured my shit out, then I found a healthy relationship” posts from me, either. It happened, and I’m happy, and he seems to be pretty happy too.

                      So you’ll have to find some other single person to club with your psychobabble….have fun!

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12

                    • Crotch Rocket Says:

                      “I’m in a relationship.” This from someone who, only nine days ago, said in response to a woman that was fucking three different men not willing to commit to her, “this describes almost exactly where I’m at, and I’ve never been happier or felt like I was doing something so consistent with what I wanted and needed”?

                      “don’t expect any goopy ‘once I figured my shit out, then I found a healthy relationship’ posts from me, either” I don’t, but probably for a rather different reason than you’re implying. As long as you remain in this bubble of self-delusion where you can do no wrong, I don’t expect you to “figure your shit out”.

                      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

                    • Vox Says:

                      For the record I am still with the same man, I just don’t feel the need to prove anything to this blog. Fucksakes I did the marriage thing already, a relationship isn’t that big of a deal nor is it hard to achieve at this stage of my life. Theres nothing to brag about! Why my relationship upset Moxie so much is beyond me, but that’s really none of my business. That’s on her.

                      This isn’t to say that I don’t agree that you are going overboard – yet again – on this thread. Every issue needs not be viewed thought the prism of Paula’s delusional lifestyle. It’s boring, and you look ridiculous. Seriously.

                      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

                    • P. Says:

                      You know, Saj has pointed this out, and I think it would be a pretty obvious point by now, but just in case people don’t get it…

                      95 % of my posts are in one of the two following categories:

                      1) I am giving my perspective on the OP’s situation or Moxie’s reply. Almost never is my first posting in a thread a reply to someone else’s comment, and very rarely do I post more than once in response to the original posting.

                      2) I am replying directly to someone who reacted to my post either by replying underneath or addressing me by name. If someone replies to my post or addresses me by name, I’m going to assume one of two things: a) they are interested in discussing the issues raised in my post, whether it’s exploring the nuances or agreeing with me; or b) they decide to attack me personally: “delusional” “emotionally unavailable” “dishonest” etc. Either way, I’m going to respond.

                      You don’t want me taking up bandwidth or time or space or oxygen…it’s really very simple. Don’t do #2. If you don’t want to engage in civil debate or have your views questioned, then don’t. And I don’t engage in personal attacks unless provoked, and even then it takes me a while, because unlike some folks I can stay focused on the issue instead of the person. So don’t provoke me. The threads will die a natural death, we’ll move on to the next issue, and we’ll all be a lot happier.

                      You should also know that for some time now, Moxie has had my comments on moderation, and is only letting through the things that she wants to debate or attack me on. I find it quite amusing that I’m being told to stop taking up so much time and space, when she has replied to virtually every comment I’ve made in the last several days.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 11

                    • P. Says:

                      CR, you’re absolutely right: I did say that not too long ago…but then guy #1 committed (after a discussion we’ve been having for a couple of weeks but didn’t finalize until we saw each other this past weekend). So I have much to give thanks for this holiday.

                      Very few of the overall total number of relationships people have end in death, so who knows how long it will last, but for now, we’re happy, which is what it’s all about, right?

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7

                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      You should also know that for some time now, Moxie has had my comments on moderation,and is only letting through the things that she wants to debate or attack me on

                      Don’t even try that. I let through 99% of your comments unless it calls out another commenter or tries to provoke them in a negative way. Take your delusions, lies and persecution complex elsewhere.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

                    • Dimplz Says:

                      Omg I know that’s not true, but if it were, you’d really need to take up another hobby because you comment a lot and it’s a scary thought to think that only a fraction of those comments are going through.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

                • Saj Says:

                  A guy who is not attractive that calls too much is “stalkerish” a guy who the woman finds attractive is “attentive”

                  It’s a pain.

                  Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

                  Reply

                  • P. Says:

                    Even if I found him attractive, I probably would have concluded he was probably too needy, or that he wanted more attention in a relationship than I would be able to give him.

                    When you have just met, and not even dating, I think one call, or maybe two (with the second one containing an apology of some sort for not wanting to bug them but make sure they got the message) is sufficient.

                    If telling a out and out lie is supposedly acceptable, then I can’t imagine that not returning a phone call is somehow even more heinous.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

                    Reply

                    • Crotch Rocket Says:

                      “I think one call, or maybe two (with the second one containing an apology of some sort for not wanting to bug them but make sure they got the message) is sufficient.” So, basically, because he doesn’t act exactly the way you would act in a given scenario, even though you’ve never told him what your expectations are, he’s a creep?

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

                    • P. Says:

                      So let me see if I have this right….a lie (excuse me, a “polite lie,” which to me is an oxymoron) is better than a failure to return a phone call? It’s OK to let someone save face by telling a lie, but not OK to let someone save face by not talking to someone they don’t want to talk to?

                      I can’t remember your position, CR, on the “fade” issue…but there are people on here who think it’s OK to sleep with someone and then not return their calls or ever speak to them again if they’re not interested, so surely a fade before you’ve ever gone out is the “polite” thing to do if you’re not really interested (which I wasn’t after his phone calls).

                      It wasn’t two or three. Moxie said that when you say “something like,” it means you don’t have an exact recollection, which I don’t. I used 5, (which is the average and median of 4 and 6). It wasn’t too long ago around here when offensivedan was upbraided for making a bunch of calls to a woman who didn’t want to go out with him again, and I don’t think it was even that many.

                      Frankly, anyone who calls me between 4 and 6 times in a 48-hour period is a creep. Voice mail and caller ID are hardly novel technologies. If I haven’t returned a call in that time period, there’s a reason: either it’s because I can’t, or I don’t want to.

                      #2 from Moxie’s post above is exactly what happened: “2. They’re on the fence and think there’s a possibility they might call. Then, once they have some distance and do a little post-date analysis, they decide that they don’t wish to pursue anything more.” Moxie has already said that it’s not misleading to do that…so why can’t you give it a rest already?

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7

                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      You never had a date with him. You had a “brief” conversation. So point #2 doesn’t apply to this situation.

                      It wasn’t too long ago around here when offensivedan was upbraided for making a bunch of calls to a woman who didn’t want to go out with him again,

                      Again, apples to oranges because he went out with that woman. If it’s the one I’m thinking of, he even slept with her.

                      You’re trying to use my words to support your argument.

                      Also? When a phone is shut off, as you claim yours was…missed calls aren’t recorded. If the missed calls did get recorded, then you’re phone was on for an extended period of time, thereby blowing apart you’re “I didn’t have enough juice” excuse.

                      It’s OK to let someone save face by telling a lie, but not OK to let someone save face by not talking to someone they don’t want to talk to?

                      No, see, it IS okay to choose not to call the guy back. But if you’re someone so big on honesty and think people who say things like “I’m busy with work” are being cowardly, as you say you are, then it’s not OK to then turn around and do the exact same thing you often call people out on, and then justify it with a bunch of flimsy excuses and (i suspect) a few lies here and there. That would be not being honest and upfront. So why not just admit you’re as cowardly as everybody else and like to soapbox for attention.

                      Also incredibly hypocritical….this guy gets deemed obsessive for his alleged 4 phone calls. But you can comment on a blog anywhere from 20-50 times in one day and that’s totally rational and normal? Food for thought.

                      Gobble Gobble.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

                    • Dimplz Says:

                      This is like one of those threads that gets loose and the more that unravels, the more of a mess you make. Here is the issue: you say he called several times. You don’t say he left several messages. Which is the only way you’d know he called several times. If he hadn’t left several messages and instead only called several times, you would not know that because you admitted to turning your phone on only once a day. I don’t know of any phone that tracks missed calls while off, and I think this is why people are questioning your story.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

                    • P. Says:

                      He did leave messages. “Hi, it’s A, we met the other night.” “It’s A, I’m leaving work now and was wondering what you were up to tonight.” “Hi, it’s A again….sorry I missed you last night, but I’m going to be at [bar] tonight” etc. Then when I turned on my phone for a couple of hours the second day because I was expecting a work-related call in the afternoon, he called twice again during that time, not leaving messages. So, wow, that definitely is five calls. And you’re right, he could have called a bunch more while the phone was turned off.

                      This is probably what you call semantics…but even if you go back to a discussion that DMN and I had on this very point a while back, you’ll see my position on this issue, which has remained consistent.

                      I have always believed the Fade is fine before you’ve gone out once, or after you’ve gone out only once and have not indicated any interest in doing so again at the end of the date, like “sure, let’s go out again sometime” when you have no intention of doing that. Honesty in terms of full disclosure is ideal. But not saying anything and avoiding a conversation is better than a lie.

                      After a date or meeting someone, if I don’t have a conversation with someone, then I can assume their silence speaks for itself — that if they wanted to get in touch with me, they would. If they tell me a lie, I’m left wondering whether or not to trust them, and whether to act in accordance with what they said, or whether to disregard what they said. I’m much more likely to get my hopes up if they’ve said something positive than if I haven’t heard from them, and I don’t think I’m the only one that operates that way.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 9

                    • P. Says:

                      >>>this guy gets deemed obsessive for his alleged 4 phone calls. But you can comment on a blog anywhere from 20-50 times in one day and that’s totally rational and normal?

                      Creepy. Creepy. The word is creepy. Not predator. Not obsessive. Creepy.

                      But speaking of numerical exaggeration and honesty…today is probably one of the highest days ever (chalk it up to holiday boredom and really being pissed when people call me a liar) and I’ve posted 17 times, 4 of which are still under moderation.

                      Yesterday it was reading comprehension, today it must be math, because those numbers don’t add up to 20-50 or 99%.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

              • P. Says:

                Oh, but it doesn’t, Dimplz. I provided a short description of what happened; Moxie accused me of being dishonest; and then I had to provide many more details…enough for her to acknowledge that she was wrong.

                All about a situation that doesn’t really change the ultimate truth that many people, women and men don’t deal with risking conflict or accepting rejection particularly well.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8

                Reply

                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  Creepy. Creepy. The word is creepy. Not predator. Not obsessive. Creepy.

                  You said in your original comment:

                  but calling so many times just screamed needy, obsessive and potentially stalker-ish

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

                  Reply

            • Crotch Rocket Says:

              “He called three days after I saw him, when I was on a camping trip in a remote area and only turning on my phone and checking messages once a day for emergencies … I got the first message in the middle of a work day” Which is it? The first message was while you were camping or was later when you were back at work?

              “…, so planned to call him back the following evening” And you couldn’t send him a simple text saying “I’ll call you tomorrow night?”

              Granted, I think the guy called too many times in too short a period, but you are not entirely blameless here and contributed to the situation.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

              Reply

              • P. Says:

                I got the first message while I was camping during what would be work hours for him…i.e., I checked my messages in the middle of the day during sunlight hours.

                You’re right, I could have sent him a text. I’m not that big of a texter, and I typically like to respond in kind…if someone calls me, I like to call them back. But in retrospect, sure, I probably should have texted him. If I hadn’t been able to get back to him while I was camping, due to running out of juice, I would have texted him, but by that time, he had called a bunch of times and creeped me out.

                I didn’t decline to give him my number because at the time he asked for it, I thought I might go out with him. Assertiveness wouldn’t have served me well in that situation — it would simply have foreclosed any opportunities to see whether he would follow through and ask me out.

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13

                Reply

                • offensivedan Says:

                  Dude, you should have texted or called him back. You were wrong for tryng to be coy. Also, while I would describe this guy a being too impatient, I don’t see how he was ‘creepy.” P, you like the cast majority of wamen, overreact andseem to throw out these terms too easily. A creep is xxxxxxxxxxx, someone who bangs your friend while he is dating you or who follows you home w/o you giving your permission–not someone who called a couple of times. Maybe the guy was really interested.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

                  Reply

                  • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                    Edited because I have no idea who that man is that you mentioned and not comfortable with his name being used here.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

                    Reply

                    • offensivedan Says:

                      Moxie, he is the starting QB for the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know, the one that has been sued for allegedly violating a woman in Las Vegas and was investigated for possible rape in Georgia. It’s all public record and has been reported by ESPN and several other sports media outlets.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

                  • P. Says:

                    Someone who calls at least 4 if not 6 times in 48 hours, during a period when I told him I would be camping (which often implies off the grid)? Sorry, a line was crossed.

                    I looked up the definition for “Creep,” and since it’s a slang term, I went to the Urban Dictionary to find relevant definitions [spelling corrected].

                    >>>1950’s word used by women to describe an undesirable man.
                    >>>a dude that tries way too hard with chicks

                    Check and check. Other posts and Moxie use words like “assaulted,” “predator,” etc. I didn’t say that…just that when I was on the fence, his subsequent behavior tipped him into the “no” column.

                    Some of the other things you described are not just creepy, they’re illegal. And don’t get me started on Big Ben…since we apparently agree on that one.

                    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 9

                    Reply

                    • Howard Says:

                      P, you are a drama Queen. The worst type at that, the one that is always right. You will be RIGHT alone by yourself, if you keep this up. Engage, that is all it takes. You can send someone a text anytime. I get them in important meetings, all the time, from people who know I am in an important meeting. They text, and not call. That is the beauty of texting. Your excuses for not responding to him early in the process are ridiculous.

                      If you are in a professional situation and someone calls and you missed the call. What do you do? You return the call a long time before it gets to 4 times in 48 hours. You didn’t even have to call back. You could have said, “Thanks, but no thanks” in an text to let him know where he stands.

                      Human beings hate things being open ended. We prefer closure, and that’s why he called. And trust me P, the boot will be on the other foot soon enough with you being in a situation where someone does not provide you closure. What goes around, comes around.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

                • Crotch Rocket Says:

                  “I got the first message while I was camping during what would be work hours for him.” Okay.

                  “I’m not that big of a texter, and I typically like to respond in kind…if someone calls me, I like to call them back.” … except you didn’t call him back. You put it off for at least two days, and he tried again but you never actually called. So, you weren’t responding in kind. You were ignoring him, which tells us (and him) that you were never interested in the first place.

                  “But in retrospect, sure, I probably should have texted him.” Quit trying to weasel your way out of it. You should have contacted him. You were wrong. Can you admit that?

                  “he had called a bunch of times and creeped me out.” First it was five, now it’s four, and I suspect it was probably only two or three times. And even if it were four times in two days, that is easily forgivable as a guy who’s a bit too enthusiastic and/or socially clueless. Yet you admit to having put up with far worse from other men, so again that tells us you weren’t interested in this guy in the first place. That doesn’t automatically make him a “creep”.

                  “at the time he asked for [my number], I thought I might go out with him. Assertiveness wouldn’t have served me well in that situation” You said “couldn’t have gotten away with” giving the guy a fake number; that implies you didn’t want to give it to him. You had already decided, even before the first time he called, that you didn’t want to see him. But now, because he used that number to call you, you have decided to label him a “creep”.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

                  Reply

                  • P. Says:

                    I’m really not certain this is really necessary, or why you’re standing up for this guy that you’ve already acknowledged called too much, but here’s my thought process:

                    Met a guy in a bar. Talked to him for about half an hour, until last call. He asked for my number, saying “I’ll call you so you have it in your phone.” I said, OK. He called me, it was stored in my phone.

                    Pros: He seemed like a nice guy, smart, interesting job, and interested in me.

                    Cons: I was dating three other people at the time. I wasn’t that attracted to him based on looks and personality.

                    Unknowns: He seemed interested, but would he actually call me? He seemed like a nice guy, but a little boring — would spending more time with him make me think he was more interesting?

                    Sum total…50/50 whether I wanted to go out with him.

                    So I did my communing with nature thing to get away from all the boys, my job, my sport, even commenting here for several days, thinking, I’ll have some time and space and beach time to figure it all out…do I kick one, two or all three to the curb for not committing? do I add #4 (this guy) to the mix? do I give up on dating altogether for a while and focus on my sport?

                    As I was pondering all these questions in lovely surroundings, dude #4 made a bunch of phone calls (excuse me…made a bunch of phone calls and left several messages). I had been instructed by several people here after the incest dude that I needed to listen to my instincts more, and this guy set off the creep-o-meter. And I decided to keep going out with two of the three, and let the third either fade away or decline when he contacted me again. (He faded.)

                    This is really terribly tedious and of no apparent interest to anyone but CR, Moxie and now Dimplz, who seem compelled to comb through this story a gazillion times to find evidence of my dishonesty or psychological damage. I suppose it’s much more fun and interesting for them than addressing the “men lie only because bat-shit crazy women force them to” BS.

                    But for everyone else, it really is pretty typical of the thought process that women go through when they meet guys they’re on the fence about. There is a possibility that they’ll go out with them at least once. There is a possibility that getting to know them will lead to more attraction. There is a possibility they’ll decide that it isn’t enough and decide to pass. There is a possibility they will take a phone number that they initially thought there was a chance of using, and not use it. There is a possibility they will avoid conflict by not calling rather than lying. And if they’re someone else (not me) there’s a possibility they will lie rather than tell you they have decided that they don’t want to go out with you.

                    Oh yeah…I SHOULD HAVE TEXTED HIM! I AM SO WRONG FOR DECIDING TO CEASE ALL CONTACT AND HOPE HE TOOK THE HINT RATHER THAN TELL HIM A POLITE LIE. I’M SO COWARDLY FOR NOT HAVING AN “I DON’T WANT TO GO OUT WITH YOU” CONVERSATION WITH A GUY I TALKED TO ONCE FOR 30 MINUTES. I’ll be sure to set aside some wet noodles from tomorrow’s Thanksgiving feast with which to lash myself. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone…be happy!

                    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11

                    Reply

                    • Dimplz Says:

                      What you have to realize is that no amount of explanation is gonna make me believe you. So you may as well give up. And I’m sure that goes for the rest of the people who doubt your story. You need to realize that when people don’t believe you, they don’t believe you. And nothing you say or do will make them believe you.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

                    • P. Says:

                      That’s on you, Dimplz. If, when presented with the facts, you or anyone else still doesn’t believe me, then it’s clearly based upon personal animosity.

                      You, Moxie, and CR have continued to prolong this argument to deflect any discussion of my original point (men use a small percentage of bat-shit crazy women to justify lying to all of them), delving into an absolutely absurd amount of detail (was it 4 phone calls or 6? writing a treatise on how turned-off cell phones deal with calls, even though I never said he didn’t leave messages) just to try to trap me in a lie…but you can’t, because I didn’t lie.

                      I’ve got my issues and certainly have made my share of mistakes. But, as Moxie recently said,

                      The minute a man or woman expresses a genuine confusion or vulnerability and is perceived as weak, the commenters with axes to grind swoop in. Typical bully crap.

                      I don’t lie. I don’t like being lied to (and I have been) and I don’t like doing it to anyone else. It’s not how I was raised to behave. I don’t believe there’s an exception or justification for lies that make people feel better: “polite lie” is an oxymoron.

                      If Moxie wants to post blogs on “The Greatest Dating Lies Ever Told” to make sure we know that people — men and women — lie, it’s her blog. And if no one wants to discuss the moral or emotional implications of repeatedly lying to people you date, that’s fine too. This thread would have already died out by now, because apparently focusing on that makes people uncomfortable, after a couple of people here confessed to doing it. Crotch Rocket, who usually posts good stuff that I agree with, is apparently all butt hurt that I thought his Hillary Clinton comment was out of line, and continuing to personalize it beyond that discussion.

                      Let it go, people. Stop bullying. Stop personalizing. Stop psychoanalyzing. How I treated some random guy I met once isn’t the issue…or if it is, know that I didn’t have the courage to tell him to his face (or via phone or text) that I didn’t want to date him, but I also didn’t lie to him. If you think I should have lied to him, go right ahead and keep lying to everyone you meet, and see how that works out for you.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11

                    • Dimplz Says:

                      I think you want to believe we have personal animosity towards you, but we don’t. We are simply pointing out the inconsistencies. No one is bullying you. This isn’t your space. Relax.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

                    • P. Says:

                      Right, like there were ever any inconsistencies to begin with…all of it was based on false assumptions which even Moxie apologized for.

                      For example, this isn’t relevant to this particular discussion, because he did leave multiple messages, but if you have Google Voice set up on your phone, you know whether someone calls, even if your phone is turned off and even if they don’t leave a message.

                      Google Voice sends me an email every time that someone calls me, transcribing their message if they leave one. I’ve also received a number of blank messages from people who probably thought they had hung up in time, but it recorded dead air and the number they called from.

                      So your “I don’t know of any phone that tracks missed calls while off, and I think this is why people are questioning your story” is either based on personal animosity, or ignorance of free and widely-available technology. Take your pick.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 0 Thumb down 10

                    • Saj Says:

                      DMN is right. It’s all conflict avoidance. Ignoring someone, pulling the fade, say you’ll call and not call it’s not about lying or being a bad person or them being a bad person it’s just how do I get out of this undesirable situation the quickest. Arguing about which way is the most moral is pointless because you don’t really care about being moral with someone your trying to cease contact with.

                      Life is easier when you put into your dating rule book that “don’t get excited about someone until you’ve had a few dates with them”. If they say after date one I’ll call you then put it out of your head until they do.

                      I’m pretty straight forward with people but when I had a bad date and as it was ending he said I’ll call you (I thought we both know that isn’t true) and I responded with Sounds good (we both know it wasn’t true) and the date graciously ended and done with.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

                    • Dimplz Says:

                      I wasn’t aware of it. Servicey!

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

                    • P. Says:

                      Oh my God. In the “you can’t make this shit up” category, or maybe it’s the “someone out there is looking out for me” category….

                      After several months with no contact (I did get a couple more calls after the whole exchange while I was camping), I just got a text from the aforementioned A, guy #4, the subject of this ad nauseum discussion, saying that his “texting actually works now” and wishing me a happy Thanksgiving.” All of you will be happy to know that I promptly returned the text to wish him a happy Thanksgiving and to let him know I was involved with someone.

                      If I could upload files of my screen cap, I would.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 0 Thumb down 11

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            Okay. If that’s how it happened then I guess I was wrong.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

            Reply

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “no one can cause a scene without your participation.” ROFL. Yes, dearie, they can–and not reacting or walking away often makes them go even crazier.

          “I couldn’t have gotten away with it since he wanted to call me right there to put my number in his phone.” You could have declined. Remember the recent discussion about being assertive?

          “Avoiding any hint of confrontation may be the easy route, but knowing you’ve been lied to causes more pain, I think.” There are some “polite lies” that anyone with any dating (or social) experience knows should know to be exactly that, and telling them allows the other person to save face. And are they really “lies” if you both know what’s being said?

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

          Reply

      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        “’Is it really that hard to keep your mouth shut and say nothing rather than have what comes out be a lie?’You have to say something at the end of the date, and women have taught men that it’s much better to lie and then ignore them later (as women do to us when giving us their numbers–or a fake number) than reject people to their faces. Plus, while many women would accept a polite brush-off, many will argue and cause a scene–and there’s that tiny fraction that will go batshit-fucking-crazy if a guy rejects them straighforwardly.”

        This is not the reason “men lie.” It’s not even about men, or crazy women. All people engage in deceit because it is a learned method of nagivating complicated social situations. Not just dating. Some “lies” are by omission and some “lies” are by commission. Neither of which are inherently “wrong.” Whether a “iie” is morally wrong or not depends mostly on the intent of the liar, not how the deceit is executed. The lies people tell when breaking things off in dating or relationships are generally not malicious lies – they are generally “conflict avoidance” which, in my opinion, is not morally wrong.

        The problem with P’s position throughout is that she doesn’t believe “conflict avoidance” is a vice either- she just wants people to avoid conflict only in the speciifc ways she deems appropriate. When people avoid conflict in a way that offends HER, it is cowardice. Personally, I think that position is philosophically impoverished. But, more importantly, it is impractical because people are not considering “P’s preferences” when they make decisions for themselves. She doesn’t make the rules. And, even if P doesn’t “lie” by her own definition of the word, she engages in the same social deceit and manipulations as everyone else because she is human.

        This is about social awareness and reading social clues. People like the OP and P who are outraged at other people lying or not saying what they mean, or “why can’t they just be honest” in all-caps are just missing social clues, and frustrated by lack of social awareness (and their lack of awareness of their social awareness.) It’s that simple. Someone else said here – and I’ve said it before – this is diplomacy. You’re SUPPOSED to understand that when someone says “I’ll call ya!” it is meaningless. You”re SUPPOSED to understand that when someone looks at you on the bus, it doesn’t necessary mean they are interested in you and want to talk to you or date you. The recipient of the benign “lie” – not the liar – is one who is not getting it.

        When people complain about this stuff, they reveal their frustration with themselves.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          The problem with P’s position throughout is that she doesn’t believe “conflict avoidance” is a vice either- she just wants people to avoid conflict only in the speciifc ways she deems appropriate.

          This. This was my main issue with the original story. That and the fact that P. went the “let’s make this guy out to be a creep so nobody will question my decision” route. She didn’t want to call him back because she was never all that interested. That’s it. But instead of just admitting that she does the very thing she rails against on here, she tried to distract everybody from that fact by harping on the “you all say go with your gut” point. Her story changed with every telling, with a new detail added every time she was called on something. Jesus. Fuck. Just admit you’re contradicting yourself. Instead we got some ridiculous 90210 inspired drama about her sabbatical that she took so she could commune with nature and be alone with her thoughts and try and decide if she should choose love or “her sport.” But the worst part is listening to her say things like “this is so tedious” as if she just hates having to defend herself. My God. God bless her boyfriend for tolerating a woman who always has to be right. But I’m sure her boyfriend LOVES her contrarian nature. Because everything in P.’s life magically fits just right.

          Prism of Delusion, indeed.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3

          Reply

          • P. Says:

            Her story changed with every telling, with a new detail added every time she was called on something. Jesus. Fuck. Just admit you’re contradicting yourself.

            The problem is, Moxie….it didn’t. I gave a short summary of the situation, and you added a bunch of false assumptions to it. So I responded to those, you said you were wrong, and then looked for a bunch more false assumptions to add to it. Then Crotch Rocket and Dimplz got into the act, adding false assumptions of their own, and then it stretched out to sitcom-level absurdity….all to avoid either apologizing for assuming I was lying or to discuss the original point the story was offered to support….that people of both genders don’t take the hints and don’t handle rejection well.

            It was the same trick you tried to pull a while back with my workout schedule, even though I have 80 league members and a personal trainer who can verify how many hours a week I work out and have agendas to support the level of intensity of every single practice and workout.

            When you always talk about how women are so competitive with each other….it’s not all women, or even most. Most of us don’t treat each other that way. It’s you.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 0 Thumb down 11

            Reply

        • P. Says:

          Here’s the difference. You can agree with my distinction or not — I don’t care and never have…it’s just my opinion and it’s a lot more interesting to discuss than the intricacies of my phone.

          When you find out someone has lied to you, it undermines your ability to trust them — you will never look at anything they say the same way ever again. And it undermines your ability to trust yourself, because you think “what a chump I was to ever believe them.” So, if, for example, every person you go out with tells you some version of “it’s not you, it’s me…” which is it? Is it me? Sometimes yes, because we all know that’s a polite lie used when you don’t want to date someone. Sometimes no, because sometimes you’re not in a position to pursue a relationship with someone you really like and want to like and it would be true if you said it. But after you hear it enough…it makes you cynical. It makes you untrusting. It makes you feel bad about yourself because you start to wonder “what if it is me every single time?” It make you feel that all men are scumbag liars…and Moxie wonders why there are so many bitter female dating bloggers — maybe it’s because they go on a lot of dates and hear the same set of lies over and over.

          And it becomes contagious and addictive. Have you ever known a compulsive liar? I have, and it reaches the point where they will insist the sky was green, despite the cerulean proof to the contrary. First, it’s “polite lies” to strangers who they’ll never see again. Then it’s “little white lies” to friends and family members to keep from hurting their feelings or to boost their confidence. Then it’s changing a detail here and there to avoid conflict. Then it’s complete and utter fabrications, to cover their tracks, to live in complete denial of reality, or to prevent the house of cards from tumbling down around them….except at one point, the gig is up.

          If you don’t return a phone call or avoid a conversation…what’s the worst that can happen? Someone might think you’re rude. OK, I can live with that. You run into them later and it’s a little awkward, but you can always apologize. Events might conspire to make it a lie of omission, but once you realize that has happened, you can correct it, saying something to the effect of “we haven’t talked about this, but I realize you might have the wrong impression.” All in all, I’ve found it doesn’t really affect me much either way when someone doesn’t call after we’ve gone out a time or two.

          I don’t think all forms of conflict avoidance are created equal. It’s fine if you think they are….I just hope I don’t end up in a relationship with you. Because — and I freely admit my life experiences have hardened me on this point — you can end up in a situation where you say “I love you” to each other over and over, because it’s a social pleasantry that people in relationships and marriages say to each other once the mutual love threshold has been crossed. But when you stop loving someone, but keep saying it out of “conflict avoidance,” you can really hurt the other person, who doesn’t know anything is wrong or different or that the relationship is about to fall apart. But it probably all started as a “learned method of navigating complicated social situations.”

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 0 Thumb down 10

          Reply

          • Saj Says:

            Forget compulsive lying, what about compulsive posting? Do you even realize you’re doing it or do you know you are but it’s must….have….last…word….or…be…understood….by….strangers…..or….head…..will….explode.

            If it’s do to unawareness it’s pretty fucking creepy….no scratch that it’s creepy period. Insult a guy for 5 phone calls from someone who makes 100 posts a day….Seems like a match to me.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

            Reply

            • Dimplz Says:

              Now you’re being a bully. It’s not her fault that we’ve bullied her so much that she had to defend herself yesterday. After all, we are internet strangers and our opinion and perception are significant and vali. It’s our fault she doesn’t have the IDGAF gene. She’s the honest one and we are all liars. We’re the ones with a problem. Stop being such a hater, she’s happy now. Be happy for her. Enjoy your holiday and stop personalizing!

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

              Reply

            • P. Says:

              If people don’t want to hear from me so much, they shouldn’t personally attack me or accuse me of lying. I’m going to respond to that — who wouldn’t?

              Like I said above, we’ll move on to the next topic and posts will die a natural death once some people stop trying to replace my psychotherapist or level all sorts of false assumptions or misquotes every time I post something.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 10

              Reply

              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                I agree with Saj that this is driven by a compulsive need to be perceived in a certain way. That stems from having a shaky sense of self or getting their sense of self from the way others react to them. Question them and you’re considered “threatened” by or “fascinated” with them. They come up with some variation of that excuse because it implies they somehow have some level of influence that they don’t actually have They’ve created this image of themselves in their head. Anybody who threatens that image must be won over or convinced or “beaten.” That’s why they explain themselves again and again. They will not give up until they feel the other person believes them. They can’t, because that would threaten the image they have of themselves.

                This and similar conversation go on and on because those people are so obsessed with themselves that they need to believe others are obsessed with them too. This isn’t about P. pleading her case. This is about P. needing to create a situation where people can be focused on her. What everybody, including me, needs to do is simply stop acknowledging her. She’s been blocked and moderated, she’s had numerous people all but tell her they don’t like her. She takes all of that as some kind of red flag. If we all would just ignore her completely, she’d probably go away entirely. She comes back because she can always manage to rile someone up – including me – and get them to engage her. Let’s all just stop engaging her.

                I think we’re all like this to some degree or another. Not to this extreme, though.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

                Reply

                • Selena Says:

                  I find the scroll wheel most helpful for threads like this. ;)

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

                  Reply

                • P. Says:

                  An entire month without being engaged (i.e., attacked, psychoanalyzed, called a liar or delusional) by Moxie? That would be better than all of Vox’s list below combined into one and a sleighfull of Christmas presents! I really can’t wait to see whether she’s capable of it.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

                  Reply

              • Vox Says:

                Before witnessing the internet persona known as Paula, I would have never believed that low self esteem and a massive ego could coexist within the same person.

                Paula’s massive ego cannot be defeated. God of the thread, she has already asserted the conditions in which she will allow the thread to die, and the conditions under which any of us are allowed to be happy:

                So don’t provoke me. The threads will die a natural death, we’ll move on to the next issue, and we’ll all be a lot happier….

                Like I said above, we’ll move on to the next topic and posts will die a natural death once some people stop trying to replace my psychotherapist or level all sorts of false assumptions or misquotes every time I post something.

                Since I am not engaged in this particular squabble, can I cry uncle on behalf of everyone so that Paula will let us move on and be happy? Paula’s ego cannot be defeated folks. Thanks to a superior intellect, it has a career so advanced and brilliant it intimidates mere mortals, is the budding star of a brutal sport which requires 5+ hours of grueling physical work a day, has a wonderful boyfriend with 3-4 other lovers waiting in the wings, AND still has the time to post all day on Thanksgiving, when most of we non-multitaskers were spending time with family & friends. I think it’s time to throw in the towel.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

                Reply

  5. Kurt Says:

    The OP is 45. I bet that when she was younger she did the same thing to men! Now that she is older she has less power relative to men and is on the receiving end.

    In my own experience, sometimes people do lie just to avoid an awkward situation. Other times, the men probably changed their mind after the date and decided it wasn’t worth it.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 10

    Reply

    • Chester Says:

      Yes. The answer to her question is the same answer to why, when a man asked her out, she replied with”I’m busy that day” or “I’m out of town this weekend” or “I’m working”….etc rather than saying “Thanks but I’m not interested”. I know this happened to me more than once in my younger years before I figured out that she really meant “No Thank You”

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      Reply

  6. Mark Says:

    A legitimate sort of question.

    I suppose that the very short answer to the first part of your question is probably along the lines of that it is perceived by the guy as one of those socially acceptable white lies that he is allowed to tell. As to the reasons for saying it, well there are several. Most of them center around the possibility of a confrontation about explaining why they don’t want to date you any further. The upshot of it being that for whatever reason they were not into you.

    With respect to the second part of your question I would agree. Sometimes a 2nd or 3d date might be best to really know someone. But this dovetails back to the first part of your question. For whatever reason….

    In all fairness, I’m sure any number of guys in the similar position could ask the same sort of questions. They soon develop a thick skin about it.

    It may not be right, it may not be especially pleasant, yet that’s how it often plays out.

    Hope things improve.

    I guess in the end you just chalk it up to part of the culture and move on.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  7. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    Good post, Moxie. A good read and I agree with most.

    As to the OP, her issue falls into the category of “rich, white people problems.” I realize this blog deals in these issues, fair enough, but if at 45, your biggest problem in the world is the inconvenience of people around you not saying what they mean all the time, I’d say overall you’ve had a pretty damn good life. As others have said, I guarantee the OP occasionally does “inexplicable” things too.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 7

    Reply

    • Chester Says:

      I don’t understand this racist, classist comment. My experience is that people of different races and classes have these same issues.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

      Reply

    • Goldie Says:

      Where did she say it was her biggest problem?! For all we know, she may be struggling with being a single parent, teenage kids, trying to keep a job, trying to make ends meet… but why on earth would she write about any of that to a dating blog?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

      Reply

      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Don’t you have bigger problems to worry about than noting and repeating the expressly acknowledged flaws in the arguments of Internet rabblerousers? You must be a rich, white person.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

        Reply

        • Goldie Says:

          I am more or less white. If you’d like me to be rich as well, please do not hesitate to send money. I accept paypal :P

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          Reply

  8. Single in NC Says:

    I have to chime in here. I have plenty of dates end by me saying I will talk to you soon. I don’t always mean it but it gives me the chance to think it over afterwards and then make the decision as to whether I call him or not. I know being a woman that a bit of a turn around, but I am seriously seeking someone I find compatible on most levels and I don’t want to waste my time or the man’s time and money if I am not that into him. I will if pushed tell the actual reason for my disinterest but only if I feel I cannot salvage a possible friendship out of it. I am one of those that actually likes men as platonic friends and hopes for at least that with someone I felt had qualities I appreciated about them. Not every date is meant to be meaningful or intimate. Sometimes men and women are better off as just friends and that should be okay too!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  9. Goldie Says:

    These code phrases are easy to handle after you’ve had some experience, but they’re a heck of a lot more difficult to deal with when you’re just starting dating and don’t know any of that stuff. Of all the guys I’ve dated this year, there’s only one I wasn’t able to salvage a friendship with, and he’s the one that actually told me “let’s be friends”. I didn’t know what that phrase really meant… how was I to know? I’m a very inexperienced dater. After a week of trying to keep in touch and failing, I send him an email to the effect of “I’m new to this – does let’s be friends really mean let’s not talk anymore? if so, I’m cool with that, bye.” He replies immediately – nonono, I’m not blowing you off, just busy… confused the heck out of me. That was one of the last times I heard from him. Why? why did he feel the need to drag me back in when I was ready to leave? IMO there’s dating code, and then there’s head games.

    Also, sometimes people really mean what they say, but then life gets in the way. He meant to call, but then bad stuff happened at home and he forgot or didn’t have the time. By the time things get better at home, it was too late to call back. Happened to me and the people I dated. It’s totally acceptable to fade after a first date even if you’re more or less interested in the person, because, at that point, you don’t really know them enough to be too invested in continuing a relationship – there *is* no relationship yet, therefore any family, work, etc. stuff should and will take precedence over this new person.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  10. Goldie Says:

    Can I ask a newbie question? Is “I didn’t feel an emotional connection” the same thing as the above mentioned “I just don’t think we clicked romantically”? It’s not just me that didn’t get it – every one of my married girlfriends that I’ve shown this to had the same reaction, “WTH is this supposed to mean?” Is that another variation on “I didn’t find you attractive?”

    Gosh, I just tell people “I don’t think we’ll work out as a couple” or “I don’t think we’re a good enough match”. And then I really do remain friends. Old school?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      Don’t overanalyze the exact wording; the underlying message is that he was rejecting you as a potential romantic partner, and it’s unlikely you’ll get him to tell you exactly why. Most people do so indirectly in an attempt to soften the blow and avoid a confrontation, but some are better at it than others.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      Reply

      • Goldie Says:

        Thanks. It happened a while ago… I’m with someone else now. I was just fed a lot of mixed messages over a short period of time. “No spark” one day, “come see me now” the next, then “no spark” again and so forth… very odd. Then in closing, he sent me this. Now I know to nip this kind of games in the bud, but a few months ago, I wasn’t as experienced.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • nathan Says:

          I’ve used almost those exact words Goldie many times. However, unlike the guy you were dealing with, once I said them, it meant I wasn’t interested and didn’t want to go on another date.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          Reply

  11. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Also, if possible, please don’t rate Paula’s/P.’s comments thumbs up or down.

    Thanks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    Reply

Leave a Reply

© 2013-2017 And That's Why You're Single All Rights Reserved