Why Men No Longer Pay for First Dates

This would be why so many men have stopped paying for first dates.

RT @villagevoice: Single Lady Brags About Using http://Match.com to Get Guys to Buy Her Dinner http://bit.ly/tlPvA7

From the brillaint Jen Doll’s piece:

Yeah, New York is expensive. Yeah, you have high standards and you want to, like, buy shoes and go out and have fun. Yeah, this is a hilarious little tale to share with your girlfriends, the way you would share tales of bad, hilarious dates. Men use women far more than women use men, that’s the stereotype, right? And bankers “were thrilled to woo her with extraordinary restaurants like the underground taqueria La Esquina and a Japanese restaurant, Megu, in Tribeca. One guy even took her to a champagne bar and purchased a $200 bottle.”

Ha ha. What a gas. Further, what an economic windfall:

Sporty went from easily spending $500 a month on dinners alone to having someone else dole out an average of $60-plus per night. She also stopped eating lunch and opted for a light breakfast to save even more.

There were actually spreadsheets made of all the dates these women had, how much the guy spent, etc. Remember how I said that men have the same fear of being used as women have? This is why.

Hopefully she met a ton of men who were “old fashioned” and “acted like gentleman.”

Thoughts?

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67 Responses to “Why Men No Longer Pay for First Dates”

  1. Sam Says:

    Yes. its true….better relationships happen when money is taken out of the equation and no one is “buying” someone! First dates with equal shared expenses are more respectful, honorable and weed out the gold diggers from the “real” women…….

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 13

  2. Saj Says:

    That’s a lot of awkward conversations just for a free meal.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 3

  3. D Says:

    She’s probably a superflirt who excels at lead guys on. Not awkward at all to bat your eyelashes, giggle at his jokes but then dash because you have an early meeting the next day.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 1

  4. Vox Says:

    She’s 23, so we know she is dating older men as vey few 23 year old men can afford to take her out to a tremdy Tribeca restaurant. I say, tough nuggies to the men. She is answering the 35-45 year old men who spend all their time writing much younger women… Let them pay for the priviledge. This is what happens when you date outside of your league. Stop being delusional and you won’t get taken to the cleaners.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 13

    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      Exactly. The guy taking you to Megu on a first date DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE MONEY. True, one out of seven women doesn’t sleep with him. Boo hoo. It;’s a cost of business. The other six? Deal closed. This whole idea that women are playing men for their money is false bravado. It’s simply not true, Let me put it more clearly: He doesn’t care. You do.

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  5. Anonymous Says:

    A woman wanting the first date paid has nothing to do with being a gold digger. What you want to watch for is how appreciative the woman is of the action behind it. Later on in the relationship, you also want to watch if the woman reciprocates, such as buying ice cream, cooking you a dinner, etc.

    I actually know quite a few happily married couples where the man enjoyed treating the woman during the courtship phase. It’s all about your views, as some of my male friends take pleasure in pursuing and providing for the woman they love.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 23

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “What you want to watch for is how appreciative the woman is of the action behind it.” Exactly. I have no problem buying a woman dinner if she appreciates the gesture. I have a problem when she expects it.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  6. Christina Says:

    Ugh. I thought this was just a myth. Maybe because I’d rather starve than have to spend time pretending to be interested in someone I’m just using for free food.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

    • Anonymous Says:

      Christina-If you’re not interested, you can pay dutch to let the man know that you’re just not into him.
      My views aren’t applicable to everyone though. Some people agree with going dutch, and that’s fine. I also know men who get offended at the woman offering to pay. It’s all about what YOU feel is right.

      Men-I think women are conditioned to let the man pay and they genuinely may not realize how they’re coming off. You could ask to split the bill (which might be taboo), but the woman’s sweet attitude about it may reveal who you’re dealing with. There are women who cheerfully will split the bill IF YOU ASK, because they may be brainwashed that they shouldn’t be paying dutch.

      If finances are a problem, a couple can always cook dinner or take a walk in a park! I usually like to do coffee for first dates, and not dinner. That way both people don’t feel bad if things don’t work out.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

  7. Chester Says:

    This is why I never take a blind date out for dinner. Even with drinks, I had one girl say that my suggestion of meeting at the W hotel “was too ghetto” … she suggested the Pininsular Hotel. I cancelled on her. And I had another woman suggest a place and she ordered an expensive dessert wine and drove up my tab….I guess I was too old fashioned to ask her to pay her part. In retrospect, I should have. Both of these women were in their early 30s.

    Will many women consider a second date if the guy does not pay the first. I thought it would be unlikely.

    Also, is there a way to have a second date in NYC under $150? Can you have a second date with a woman without dinner?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

    • Steve Says:

      I’m about to give up on blind 1st dates going to dinner, you’re stuck staring at someone for 1-2 hrs, the conversation is awkward, etc. As for drinks only, it saves the who pays problem somewhat, but at least with dinner you have good food to eat. I’ve had better luck taking walks in the park; even though they didn’t lead anywhere, it was more enjoyable. I don’t know what else to do when it is wintertime however. Anyone have any creative 1st date ideas in NYC that are indoors and don’t involve the usual drinks/dinner routine?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      • D Says:

        I don’t do dinner first dates, just drinks.

        Also, if a conversation feels awkward, I say so. I just say it feels awkward and ask why. It usually leads to a more authentic conversation. In one case I ended the date after 15 minutes because the woman just would not make an attempt to connect (didn’t ask me any questions, rarely looked me in the eye etc).

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  8. Mark Says:

    The original comment from Moxie is “This would be why so many men have stopped paying for first dates” and the linked blog from the Village Voice.

    .From my POV it boils down to Intent. Both stated and underyling.

    If she stated in her profile that she wasn’t seriously looking and was simply out for a good time at upscale places, then those responding to such a profile can’t really claim they were duped or otherwise mislead. They got the benefit of having dinner with eye candy and she got the benefit of a nice dinner. Both reasonably knew what they were getting into and both got the benefit of the bargain. Expensive bottles of Champagne included.

    However, if she was misleading in a fundamental sort of way about what she claimed she was looking for…. You can fill in the rest.

    It is also interesting to note that the blogger at the VV states that her photo was removed and a pseudonym used in this story.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6

  9. Ed Says:

    A girl I met on Craigslist met me for drinks in Brooklyn awhile back. It was only going to be drinks, but things seemed to be going well and she asked if we should get something to eat since we were in a small African restaurant in Fort Greene she’d picked. (She was Asian, by the way.) I, being the gullible and hopeful idiot I was at the time, said sure. As the meal concluded, she texted her “friend” to come pick her up. When the check came I paid the bill. (She didn’t lift a finger.) We went outside and waited for her friend. He pulled up in a black SUV. She opened the door, hopped in, and kissed him, and they drove away. Needless to say, I never heard from her again.

    This may be blatant but not an isolated incident. I’ve also had women use me for drinks a few times then maybe even meet me for dinner for a second date only to disappear on me. Yes, it could just be that they didn’t feel chemistry at some point or weren’t sure, but if that’s the case they should definitely pay their own way. I’m not a bad looking guy, but I’m also not Donald Trump. I haven’t been on a date in over two months because I’m screening extensively online first. I don’t think all women are gold diggers or dinner whores, but I do think there are an abundance of them in this city. Right now, I’m just looking for one good woman who’s not going to try and take advantage of me; a woman who actually wants to build something with me as opposed to just using up what resources she can get from me before she discards me and moves on to the next sucker. It would be a different story if we were living back in the 50′s when men made most of the money, but many of these parasites make more money than I do. Some new ground rules need to be written because what’s expected of men by women now is complete and utter bullshit.

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    • Mike Says:

      I will always pay for a first date, which is RARELY dinner (unless it was agreed to be drinks and things are just flowing so well). But my biggest pet peeve is the feeling that I have to pay for 100% of the things we do going forward. After 4 or 5 dates and me constantly paying for EVERYTHING — without so much as an offer from her — is annoying and turns me off, especially if she has her own money and is OK financially. I think it’s awesome for a woman to buy me a drink and I will always accept that. And it’s also great for a woman to offer to pay for a first date (I always politely decline her offer) — and I think that could be a sign that she’s really not that interested and doesn’t want me to get the wrong idea by paying for her. I respect that.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      • Willywonka Says:

        So, let me get this straight….

        1) If a woman DOESN’T offer to split the check, she gives the impression that she’s a gold-digging dinner whore.

        2) If a woman DOES offer to split the check, she gives the impression that she’s not interested.

        So, if a woman ISN’T a gold-digging dinner whore and IS interested in the guy, what the hell is she supposed to do?

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        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          If she’s concerned that going dutch sends the wrong message, she can always follow up by asking him out on the next date.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

        • M Says:

          If that’s the case, she should make the offer to pay. Regardless of wither the guy thinks she’s not interested, if he is, he will ask her out again. If he doesnt that’s his problem. But if/when he does, she should accept, then she should pay the whole thing. If the guy objects, she should say something like “You paid las time, I pay for this time.” It shows a girl has a good sense of equality and that she’s not a gold digger. She may not be interested in seeing the guy again, but at that point, they’re even, so its ok. Its the best possible outcome.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  10. Kurt Says:

    A few months ago I took a girl out on a first date to a PF Chang’s and she actually complained about going to that place! She hinted that I should have taken to her a trendier place (that would have probably cost over $100). I met her on a dating website, and I was refuse to take women from dating websites on expensive first dates because those dates usually go nowhere and I am well-aware that a lot of women on those sites are simply using men for entertainment expenses.

    This girl was attractive, but she wasn’t nearly attractive enough to expect that kind of treatment. What’s worse is that she is mid-30s, and is way too old to have this kind of a sense of entitlement. She’s supposedly looking for her husband, but placing such great emphasis on the amount of money expended on a first date makes me think that she her dating priorities are totally wrong.

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    • Joe Says:

      “but she wasn’t nearly attractive enough to expect that kind of treatment”

      WTF?? So, the prettier the girl, the more money you’ll spend??

      “What’s worse is that she is mid-30s, and is way too old to have this kind of a sense of entitlement.”

      And this?

      Honestly, sounds like each of you were perfect for one another.

      A first date should be about getting to know one another and since women earn nearly as much as men, then first dates should be dutch

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      • Chester Says:

        I know many women who just would not go out with a guy a second time if the bill was split the first time out….I’d like to know…
        1. How often Joe goes dutch on the first date?
        2. What percentage of those girls say yes to a second date?

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        • Kurt Says:

          I agree. I had already met that girl for a drink previously, but the dinner date was the first real date. A lot of women will simply think a man isn’t taking things seriously if he doesn’t ask them out on a real date.

          I am guessing that Joe is probably married and has been out of the game for years.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          • Chester Says:

            You said first date at Chang’s….you didn’t mention the drinks before hand. Which I don’t consider a real date either…but I misunderstood. OK, then I am inclined to think PF Changs is just not original or unique in anyway….too ordinary and no atmosphere. She said trendier not expensive…even the coolest new organic burger joint would have been trendier and she would have been happier. Someone mentioned an exotic ethnic restaurant….I agree with that. I have an interesting Thai restaurant I sometimes go that has great food….rated the most authentic Thai food in Manhattan. Also, I found a cool Turkish restaurant. This way you are giving her an experience of discovering a new place. The thai place doesn’t have much atmosphere (but probably still more than Chang’s)…The Turkish place is very romantic.
            When the weather is nice, I have taken some women to Restaurant row and we pick out a place together. There are hosts outside trying to lure you to come in with a fixed price menu of around $25. Spanish, Brazilian, Italian, Russian. etc. There are only 2 high priced ones…If she pushes for one of those, you know what she wants

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      • Kurt Says:

        I wouldn’t put up with that behavior from a woman of any age. However, the older a woman gets, the more delusional she is if she thinks men are going to pamper her satisfy her sense of entitlement.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    • Goldie Says:

      Most of my first dates were coffee/drinks. I’d rather meet at a nice local, ambient coffee shop than be forced to eat greasy, unhealthy food, that I normally do not eat because it makes me sick, just because the man is hellbent on our first date being a “dinner date”. I totally understand being hesitant about spending a ton of cash on someone he doesn’t know, but that’s what coffee shops and bars are for.

      Next time, take ‘em to McDonalds, now that’s a true test of character.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

  11. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I will make my point again since I am a “thumbs up” whore. The only people complaining about this arrangement (where man pays for extravagant dinners, etc.) are women like Moxie who feel its making women look bad, and broke guys, who wish they could only afford to get “played” in this way.

    If a woman willingly goes with you to Chilis or PF Changs, she is not just looking for a free meal. Don’t kid yourself. She’s most likely tolerating the meal in order to meet you and get to know you. But, yes, she is judging you for being simple, unsophisticated, cheap, and possibly broke. And, the consequence will be no further dates, unless you are really impressive in other ways. So, to those guys, maybe stop doing that?

    The guys who are securing tables at la esquina and lavishing women with bottle service are doing what generally works – many women can be bought and sold. Men are not going to stop doing what generally works because some woman takes to the internet and brags that she eats for free. Only poor chumps care or complain about that.

    Ok, Let the thumbs upping commence.

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    • Mike Says:

      I absolutely disagree that lavishing woman with expensive dinners and bottle service is going to get a man laid. I always make it a cheap first date on purpose because those that are there to meet me will not care, and those that are there to sap me of my money I literally walk away from. And you can always tell – they say they are hungry and I say “fine,” and suggest some sort of pub. If they make a counter suggestion, I know it’s “game on.” So I bring them there, and just get a water while they of course order a $15.00 cocktail and appetisers. I then excuse myself to the bathroom and leave, texting them from the street to enjoy dinner. Whenever I can also convertly watch them alight from the restaurant I do that as well. More men should be like me :)

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      • Mike Says:

        People can “disagree” with me all you want, but I do just fine with sexy, high quality woman of character and substance without lavishing them with expensive dinners and dates. Indeed, if I were going to do that I would absolutely expect sex in return, and if that’s the case why take a risk when you can spend the same, or less money on a hooker. Makes no sense what guys do.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        How can you claim “it doesn’t work” if you don’t do it? You actually prove my point: the guys who use this strategy (ie buying women) are not the one’s complaining. It’s guys like you who worry about cash, to one degree or another. I don’t disagree with what you meant to say which is there are other strategies that work well too. But just because you occasionally get laid, doesn’t mean rich guys don’t.

        This thread gives me an idea for my first date tonight actually. I’m going to fly her out to Utah on my private jet and have dinner at that upscaley PF Changs and maybe hit the slopes if we have time tomorrow. High-end Champagne will be served en route of course. I’ll let you know if I get laid.

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        • Saj Says:

          Oooh spooky. Don’t forget to see a James Bond movie and bitch the entire time on the slopes about how your ski outfit doesn’t fit. But also hint strongly at staying at a hotel together that night. (nevermind that your chances of getting laid were dashed the moment you sent a picture that wasn’t accurate and you weigh 50 more pounds then advertised and complain non stop) Just shell out that money and she’ll ignore the extra chins.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

          • Saj Says:

            That’s weird when I think about the guys and their buying tactics and how it worked out.

            One flew out to see me, tried to take me on a shopping spree, we hit the slopes (didn’t get him laid as he was a pain in the ass)

            Another one sponsored a flight to Toronto and another to NYC where we shared a suite (had some fooling around but didn’t get him laid as he was a manipulative incarnation of evil)

            One sponsored a two week vacation to Maui and he took me on a tour of the entire island (did get him laid as he’s awesome)

            One did nothing special, subway was considered an event…..(got him laid because he was tall and nice enough and wasn’t pushy)

            The money I don’t think really had an effect as the two guys who got laid were physically attractive and the ones who didn’t weren’t no matter how much they tried to shell out.

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            • Regina Tingles Says:

              These guys sound like such jerks! Can you please provide contact info for Guys numbered 1, 2 and 4? Thx.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              The money I don’t think really had an effect as the two guys who got laid were physically attractive and the ones who didn’t weren’t no matter how much they tried to shell out.

              So you let these guys spend all kinds of money on you knowing you weren’t attracted to them? And you’re proud of this…why exactly?

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      • Goldie Says:

        @ Mike:

        “I then excuse myself to the bathroom and leave, texting them from the street to enjoy dinner. Whenever I can also covertly watch them alight from the restaurant I do that as well.”

        So, when you bring them there, you already know you’re going to skip out on them. Then why bother going into the restaurant at all? You plan on leaving, you don’t plan on seeing her again, why not cut the date short and leave? What’s the worst that can happen if you say good-bye to her face, instead of from the men’s room via text — is she going to punch you?

        I just don’t know what to think of this MO. Sounds too head-gamey to me. I wouldn’t want to date a guy who engages in head games and PA behavior, even if it’s not with me, the woman of character, but only with the other, bad women. Got to give you credit though, at least you don’t order anything that she’ll be stuck having to pay for, and at least you say good-bye to her in some way. Still, weird.

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        • Breebree Says:

          I agree Goldie…..Mike you have serious issues hon… you better screen women very well because you could very easily end up married to a woman who ends up spending up a lot of your paycheck and when you no longer allow her to do so divorce you and attempt to take half or more of all your assets.
          Some women are very cunning and know “the game” as good as men and are better at it than men. They will be everything you want in the beginning and as soon as you put a ring on it and/or upgrade them and change their title and status to girlfriend or wife they will be their true selves.
          I also agree with j…….stop being a punk and talk to the woman face to face. The worst that can happen is she throws a drink in your face and walks out on you.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

      • j Says:

        I’ve only walked out on one date.

        If you feel you need to do this, you should tell her why you are doing so face-to-face. Politely.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    • Selena Says:

      “Men are not going to stop doing what generally works because some woman takes to the internet and brags that she eats for free. Only poor chumps care or complain about that.”

      I’ll adjust this to some men and women are not going to stop doing what generally works because some people on the internet complain about it. There are people who invite a date to a restaurant with the expectation they will pay for whatever their date orders. There are people who accept such invitations.

      The people who complain about it? If you don’t want to spend much money on strangers, or near strangers…there is no reason why you should. Suggest something you would be willing to pay for. Don’t want to pay for another person period despite having invited them? Don’t be surprised when they decline any further invitations from you.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

  12. P. Says:

    Guys, if you’re so worried about being taken by women you meet on the Internet, only suggest a coffee or one-drink pre-screening date. Some may find it obnoxious that you’re clearly checking them out before deciding whether to invest, but frankly it’s much less obnoxious than the constant whining about what it costs to date, or that you would actually think the problem with taking someone to someplace like Chili’s or PF Chang’s for a date is the cost. (Hint: it’s not…it’s the complete lack of imagination and atmosphere).

    If you take us to the undiscovered ethnic restaurant where you know the owner, don’t order off the menu, and can have an amazing meal for $10 or $15, very few women are going to complain about that. The ones with the values you want to date are going to think it’s cool and are going to have a great time in your company. The problem is that too many of you have Chili’s personalities in addition to Chili’s cheapness: you do nothing to distinguish yourself from any other guy out there or to make the woman you’re with feel like she’s individually special to you.

    And for those of you who want to use your high-powered jobs and/or your intimate knowledge of the city’s restaurant scene to impress a woman…you can’t have it both ways. DMN is right — it’s the cost of doing business when you’re dating woman who might not consider you otherwise. Frankly, I don’t understand why you complain so much about the women who won’t go out with you unless you drop a lot of cash…isn’t that a good screening mechanism? Do you think, if she’s that way on the first date or two, that future dates are going to be any different?

    [For those of you who may not recall from prior posts -- I almost always go dutch or pay the tip and 100% always make a sincere offer to pay, and it does not at all affect whether I would go out with them again.]

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  13. Craig Says:

    I actually admire the woman in the article because at least she was honest about being a dinner whore – as opposed to the women who wax poetic about the outdated B.S. that a man must show he’s a “gentleman” by paying for a lady every time. Personally I don’t mind being used for free meals as long as I’m getting laid in return. That’s a quid pro quo I can live with. But when a woman expects dinners all the time without giving up the ass, that’s when we’re gonna have a problem.

    A grown man should be able to tell when he’s being used. The signs are all there. If you always meet in public and are never allowed to pick her up at her home; if you never meet her friends; if there is never any intimate contact; if she never calls you first – these are all signs it’s time to cut your losses. Women don’t like it when men pressure them for intimate concact early on, but this is part of the reason why. It’s the only affirmation we have that they’re seriously interested. That said, I don’t blame women like this for men getting taken advantage of – the women are just taking what the defense gives them. I blame the dumb and insecure men who allow it to happen. The women in the article used each guy for five dates before bailing. It’s a travesty it was allowed to go on that long. They wouldn’t have gotten more than two dates out of me before I got wise to their game, and the first date would not have even included a meal.

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    • Michael Says:

      Yeah – I’ve found that the 3-date rule has become a 2-date rule with a consolation date thrown in if there isn’t a someone more fun to do and/or you are thinking of actually just being friends.

      Assuming she’s just not that into you is far better than getting stuck with someone with issues. Having to jump through hoops are always a red-flag, in my experience, and actually turns the focus to be about sex. If you don’t want it to be about sex, then why use it as a reward?

      I’ve never personally known of anyone who complained that they had sex too soon in their relationship. When the newness starts to flag, that’s when women need to pull back and play a little hard-to-get, IMHO. That’s what keeps things interesting and romantic for the long-term; at the beginning it just feels like female manipulation. It’s surprising how few women know this.

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  14. Mike Says:

    Only a sucker would buy a chick dinner on a first date. Dinner dates are wrong on so many levels. Putting aside the obvious as this article mentions, it leads to too much “polite” conversation sitting across from the woman – you cannot touch her or flirt using body language. Second, you really don’t get a sense of her true character. But sure I’ll pay for a first date, because it’s not going to cost me more than $50.00

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  15. Saj Says:

    Wait PF Chang’s is considered low scale? That’s one of the more expensive (and tasty) restraunts here! But again I don’t live in New York.

    Men need to be careful about being utterly obvious that they are trying to have a cheap date with you. It sends a signal that they have been duped, have baggage, and are paranoid as fuck. On the other hand when I did online dating in my early 20′s I also had men way too old for me try to bribe me into going out with them by offering nice places but I was more attracted to men around my own age and the trade off didn’t feel worth it.

    I had a guy I went out with who I wasn’t keen on who kept insisting on buying me overpriced jeans. I kept saying no over and over until FINE. Now if later he would go on a dating site and go I was “used” by a gold digger I would roll my eyes so hard because that’s the game he was trying to play and it didn’t work.

    Such a huge problem with online dating is the contradicting rules. People want to meet up (right away) so you don’t get to build much of anything before your first date where that’s your time to make a first impression. So now you are on basically a blind date. The guy had no time to find out what you like and don’t like to find a cheaper alternative and offers the generic dinner at a nice place or if he is guarded and paranoid the obvious coffee or drinks so he doesn’t get “used”. (and yes women do see BAGGAGE when a guy offers that and weighs it in her head if it’s worth it or not but it takes her initial excitement down a few notches)

    A good way to avoid this is for the woman to have a first date in mind that is reasonable and suggest it. Like maybe a small venue or put put golf, something simple and fun. You aren’t a jerk if a friend offers to treat you by suggesting the most expensive place around so don’t do it here. The woman gets what she wants and the guy doesn’t feel like he’s being taken to the cleaners. All that stuff about the guy should take charge and know how to plan a first date is way too much pressure to put on someone who you don’t know and doesn’t know you.

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    • Craig Says:

      Wait PF Chang’s is considered low scale? That’s one of the more expensive (and tasty) restraunts here! But again I don’t live in New York.

      You have to put things in the proper perspective. NYC is among the fine dining capitals of the world at all price ranges. As snobby as it sounds, any chain restaurant like P.F. Changs is at best one step above McDonald’s to the locals. When you have access to a Chinatown with authentic food straight from China, you don’t eat at P.F. Chang’s. NYC has the Outback Steakhouse, TGI Fridays and all those chains, but they’re for tourists. No New Yorker would be caught dead in one of those places.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    • offensivedan Says:

      Wait a second, so this guy forced you to accept these jeans? This is such bullshit. You could have easily stopped seeing this guy since you clearly were not interested. Then you would not have been “forced” to accept the jeans or deal with his constant naggin to buy them for you. You wanted a pair of free jeans and you just turned him down enough to not feel guilty afterwards. What a lame comment.

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      • Saj Says:

        uh he was there for a week and kept going no no no I insist. No I’m cool you don’t have to. No really come on. Really that’s fine. I’m just going to get them anyway. Holy god fine (and because I was friends with him online for a bit and he was visiting for a week I wasn’t going to just be an asshole the entire time) and when he went back home our friendship cooled significantly.

        But sure next time your Mom or Grandma or some relative forces some item on you that you don’t want but you’ll feel like an asshole for turning them down you can remember the lameness of it.

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        • offensivedan Says:

          Your analogy is poor. How is it the same when a relative offers you a present versus a stranger or friend? Stop justifying your gold digger tendencies. You could have firmly said no or ignored him; yet, you went the opposite and accepted his gift. ALL women are capable of shutting a guy down.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “next time your Mom or Grandma or some relative forces some item on you” That’s entirely different; that’s family, not some random stranger you could easily remove from your life and forget about if he behaves badly.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  16. dimplz Says:

    I don’t think this woman is much of a gold-digger. I just see a small time con-artist, really. Like the Steve Martin to Michael Cain in “Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.” Alert me when someone buys her a Bentley, not food.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

  17. CuriousintheChi Says:

    This is hilarity. Women and Men can NOT be trusted. That’s why I’m going to be spending this Friday night with my buddy Left Hand Jill.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

  18. joe-f Says:

    Isn’t dating challenging enough without thinking about who pays and what does it mean? For the guys, I think if you can’t handle the expensive dinners, then don’t. Good women can’t be brought. For the girls, don’t do this. It is bad karma and just as bad as the guy using you for sex and companionship without the intention of ever committing.

    I always pay for the first date and I choose whatever the &*^% I want for the first date after asking her to choose a neighborhood. If she wants a fancier place after I pick something, she is going to be too high maintenance for me anyways. Maybe I am lucky or too ugly but none of my online dates have ever suggested a fancier alternative. I have equal success of with girls who I took to expensive restaurants and girls who I took to cheap restaurants on the first date.

    I remember a girl who choose a neighborhood where the only place I want to go was White Castle. It was hilarious with her dressed up with heels and makeup and I was wearing a suit from work. We still had a good time laughing over a stack of sliders. She would have been someone I would take to an expensive restaurant, when I feel like going to an expensive restaurant.

    The places I go for first dates are the same places that I want to explore with my platonic friends. When you expect nothing other than an opportunity to get to know someone who might be your lifelong mate then you will experience no loss even if she never calls you back.

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  19. j Says:

    If a guy doesn’t pay for a first date, she may think he’s cheap.

    I’ve got a rule where I only meet for drinks when it’s someone I haven’t seen. I explained that to someone once & she called me superficial. I asked her how many ugly guys she’s dated. She started a rationalization, then conceded the point.

    I once made a date for drinks & got introduced to her beforehand coincidentally. She was hot, so I should have upgraded to dinner.

    These days, it’s a drag to pay for dinner while a woman’s attention is on her phone, which is often the case.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    • Anonymous Says:

      If your date is on the phone or texting, that can be a deal breaker. Just as women can set their standards, men can set their preferences too.

      My situation is the opposite when men ask me for dinner on first dates and try to prolong the first date by suggesting a movie, but I suggest coffee instead. It keeps the first date simple. I also don’t mind letting the man choose the restaurants, if he suggests a dinner date.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    • joe-f Says:

      J-I learned this the hard way so whether you consider my thoughts or not, I want to share it because I wish someone had shared this thought with me. Be yourself and free yourself from these rules. There is nothing worse than being hungry and trying to listen to what the woman is saying. Even if you are not hungry she might be. Dinner doesn’t have to be expensive. Just go where you normally go. If she likes you for you, then she will have a good time.

      Never make an exception for hot women. You can’t consistently take them to expensive dinners unless you can and do frequent those places. Just be yourself because that is ultimate confidence.

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      • j Says:

        I’ve learned never to tolerate bad behavior from hotties, but that’s not what my post is about.

        It does acknowledge my own avoidance of ugly women. Nothing to brag about, but most people do the same.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  20. Anonymous Says:

    To wrap it up, I think if people are arguing about who splits what and who pays for what…..Love isn’t in the air. I sound idealistic, but when two people are in love or genuinely like each other…this isn’t realistic.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

    • Breebree Says:

      Anonymous I wouldn’t say it’s not realistic because “love” is not what pays bills, people do.
      I understand where men come from because it’s a matter of principle with them and I agree that no man should have to financially take care of a grown woman like she is his daughter and pay for every outting.
      Typically when men start doing this the next thing that comes is the woman asking him for lunch money, gas money, money for her hair, nails, and to go shopping.
      I do think men naturally fall into the role of being the “provider” because this is the role of man in most every society and it has been 1 of mans main roles in life since the beginning of time. And if a man sincerely likes and cares for a woman he doesn’t mind. The thing is it’s a fine line between doing things for someone because you want to, and dealing with a person who makes you feel like you have to do the things you do for them and if you don’t their will be consequences.
      Personally I always offer to pay and give the man gas money if he drives to where-ever we go.
      Every man I’ve dated has been very appreciative of the fact that I offered because it shows them that they are respected and appreciated for their time and who they are, not how much they spend.
      First dates should be very simple and more about talking and getting to know one another for at least an hour or two. It’s also good to allow the man to plan it so he can do things according to how much he wants to spend.
      I think the ideal season to date is spring and summer when the weather is nice and there are more free outdoor activities and you can just take a nice walk.
      There are inexpensive and a few free things to do in the winter-time too.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “.Love isn’t in the air.” For a first or second date? Of course not. You’re two semi-random strangers at that point.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • Anonymous Says:

        Who says I was talking about the first or 2nd date? I was talking about committed relationships in general. If you read my earlier posts, I said to keep the first few dates simple where dropping 30 bucks or more for dinner doesn’t become an issue. Go out for a cup of cofee, take a walk in the park, etc

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

        • Anonymous Says:

          ” The thing is it’s a fine line between doing things for someone because you want to, and dealing with a person who makes you feel like you have to do the things you do for them and if you don’t their will be consequences.”

          I agree. Nobody should be forced into doing something they don’t want to do. If you’re not happy with paying for a woman’s dates, let her know.

          The men that I do know who prefer to pay for the woman do so out of their own preferences, as you said.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

          • Howard Says:

            The problem is when the invited party wants to get involved into what happens on the date, and starts indicating directly or indirectly that she wants this or that to happen. Once that happens, the invited party has to be ready to contribute to financing the date.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            “The men that I do know who prefer to pay for the woman do so out of their own preferences, as you said.” Huh? I said nothing of the sort, and in fact I’ve said the opposite: men pay because they know it increases their odds of success, not because they want to.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “Who says I was talking about the first or 2nd date?” The title of this post is “Why Men No Longer Pay for First Dates”, and your comment didn’t make it clear you were talking about people already in a relationship, which is almost completely unrelated.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  21. Breebree Says:

    So what about a woman who “spoils a man” just to “get him” and then once they are in a committed relationship or married the woman expects him to always pay for everything (including many of her bills) because she is his girlfriend or wife?????
    I had a convo with a guy friend going through a divorce who said he was out of work and his wife worked and made more than him and he blew through hundreds of thounsands of dollars in months (less than a year).
    Who pays or doesn’t pay in the beginning doesn’t matter much. As Chris Rock said most times in the very beginning when you first meet a person your meeting the “represenative” on their best behavior.
    The problem I see is that folks already in relationships or married (mainly men) complain about womens mentality of my money is my money and your money is “our money.”
    Just as women need to be clear about when they will become intimate with a man and stick to it to help weed out men just looking for sex, men need to be clear about their ideas about money in the relationship and potential marriage to weed out potential golddiggers.
    Men let women know that you you want an equal partner financially and even though you will help her out and be chivalrous and pay sometimes, you have no intentions of financially taking care of a grown azz woman if thats how you feel.
    Some men however are more than happy to financially provide for grown azz women if they look good enough and put the “whip appeal” on him good enough. But if your not one of those men make that crystal clear to the women you date in your discussions about relationships and marriage.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

    • joe-f Says:

      I promise this is my last comment on this thread. BreeBree-I agree that you have to be clear about money and sex but that comes from being honest with self and your date. Don’t worry about making sure we don’t become prey to bad women. We are wolves and can take care of ourselves. The ones who can’t will learn or be whip.

      If a women always insists on paying her share, that can come off as rigid. For me, I have no problem taking care of the RIGHT woman because she might be in a career that she loves but never makes any money or she just wants to be a stay-at-home mom. I never consider money when dating because I learn that just restricts the pool of women who I can date. did I get taken advantage of?-probably. Did i eventually find the one?-Yes

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  22. Ed Says:

    I have the absolute BEST solution: How about everyone just pay for their own shit regardless of whether they’re on a first date or celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary?!?!? Women shouldn’t be throwing sex around like guys should pay for it anyway; otherwise, they reduce themselves to whores, men to johns, and the whole dating experience down to a business transaction.

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  23. offensivedan Says:

    I got into an argument with a female relative over this recently. I felt that a guy should pay for the first date and should limit it to jsut drinks. However, as for the second date, if she determines she is not interested then she should pay her share. I refer to that bullshit excuse given by women that they need a second date with a guy if she is on the fence about him.

    Well, this female relative violently disagreed and said the man she pay for the dates. Well guess what then happened? Her mother told her she was mistaken and should pay for the 2nd date if she determines she does not like or want to see the guy. She said that was fair.

    In summary, I believe if a woman “is on the fence” and accepts a seond date, if she determines she is not interested at the end, then she should pay her share. That’s fair but, again, most females of this country have an entitlement complex.

    You know this is also why guys try to get sex as fast as possible.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  24. Michael Says:

    I had an instructive experience. I was in a hurry one evening and drove to a relatively fun-but-inexpensive place to meet a woman I’d met online for a drink and ‘teasers. When she arrived I asked what she was drinking, went for my wallet and realized I’d left it at home. “Oh wow,” I said, “I can’t believe I forgot my wallet.” She: “Well we can reschedule.”

    …hmmm…

    Needless to say, I did not reschedule. I’ve never actually used this as a trick/test but sometimes wish I had.

    The most impressive women are those who flip the script and offer to pay on the first date. This shows generosity and originality and shows she’s interested in me, not herself. I immediately follow with, “Okay, but then you must let me take you out for dinner next time.” Which then shows I’m not a cheapskate. Whenever it goes this way, it has never failed to lead to another date and/or the fun & free activities. Alternatively, a good practice is to have two places in mind which adds some variety to the evening and allows both to pay.

    I never split the check unless I’m out with an accountant.

    The best rule of thumb is not to go somewhere you want to check out and pay for the experience yourself, not someplace you feel would impress your date. And don’t let yourself get caught up caring about money if you don’t want that in someone else. I you want to date someone out of your league and think throwing money at her is the answer, hire an escort.

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