Do Men Really Love Bitches?

Name: Breebree
State: MD
Age: 34
Comment: Moxie, I got this question thinking about the last posts where the OP thinks she is having a hard time getting dates because she is “nice.” I also have the book “Why Men Love Bitches.” From what I’ve seen and heard this seems to be true…it seems like men and people in general respond quicker and more to people when they are “bitches” or mean and nasty and/or curse them out.

I know that generally speaking folks will do what you allow them to do. If you don’t allow people to talk to you and treat you any kind of way and command respect then they will respect you. However with regards to relationships the men friends I talk to initially get with women who are azzholes or bitches or have lots of drama and they constantly complain about them and curse the day they met them, married them, and had kids by them and then get burned by them and then complain and feel stupid and lament “woe is me” stories. It’s so nerve-wracking. I have a guy friend who we I got along well with and we would always laugh and joke and I would give him massages if he was tired and sore and he would always say how much he liked me and enjoyed my company and we would talk about any and everything.

Yet for months he dealt with a woman who clearly showed him she only wanted him for what he did for her and if he had money. When this guy had no job she cheated on him and treated him like crap and didn’t want to be bothered unless she wanted him to do something. He allowed her to belittle him and emasculate him and treat her any type of way and (just like many women do) hung on to the hope that she might change and was ever mindful of the good times they had in the beginning. I would always ask him “why do you let this woman treat you like this?” “why do you think this is good and normal?” I even asked him why he wouldn’t date me and he really couldn’t give me a straight answer.

He did say it was like this woman had a hold on him. He gave her his heart completely and had a hard time just snatching it back no matter how wrong she did him. I’ve talked to several other men who complain to me about their ex’s and how sheisty they are and how much drama and problems they had with these women and I ask them “why the hell did you get with these women in the first place?” All they can say is in the beginning it was good, or some will say it was because of looks but some say they didn’t be with and marry their ex for their looks but they can never really explain why they are attracted to these “toxic women”. In some cases I think some men are attracted to women with kids, drama, problems, and issues (no matter what they look like). In the last post Are Men Attracted to Nice Girls I think the answer is no…just as women like bad boys sometimes men like bad women. Because the women who are nice, sweet, kind, loving, no drama, no problems, and women who would go out of their way to make them happy they don’t want.
My question is why is this and what is your opinion on this???

 

Healthy, stable men will date the “bitchy” woman for a bit, either because the woman is hot or she knocks it out of the park in bed. Or both.  But they won’t date them for long or marry them. That is,  unless those men enjoy being bossed around, henpecked and generally enjoy being emasculated. Yes, in many cases, it is the woman’s looks that keeps these low self-esteemed men around. Being with a “hot” woman gives them a sense of social proof. But I think there’s more to it, which I will get to below.

I think the real question you are asking, which you mentioned, is how come these men will date all these “wrong” women and not date you? Here’s why: They aren’t attracted to you.  It’s not because you are too good or too sane or just not “bad” enough. It’s that they just don’t find you attractive enough to date. Having you on their arm does not bolster their social status. They aren’t looking for tenderness or nurturing. They’re looking for a hot girlfriend so they can trot her out at work functions and show her off. They want to be with a woman who pays attention to them by criticizing them. They only know how to work for a woman’s approval. There are many, many relationships with that dynamic. To the two people in that kind of relationship, the dynamic works for them. Is it unhealthy? Yep. But I’d guess that a hefty percentage of all long term relationships are.

You have to understand that the book, “Why Men Love Bitches” doesn’t really support the theory that men love bitches. That book was given a provocative title so it would sell. Of course, as many of us did with Sex and The City, we didn’t really understand that we were being presented with caricatures and exaggerations. Women just heard the title to that book and assumed that being “bitchy” was okay because men “love” that.

Do men love women who know what they want and go after it and speak their mind? Yes. Absolutely. But if she doesn’t posses both vulnerability and consistency, he’s out.  Inconsistency leads to unpredictability, and unpredictability leads to drama. So, if a woman is laid back and easy going the first few weeks of dating, and then becomes demanding and rigid, what a man sees is inconsistency. If he sees us being more flexible towards female friends who behave badly than we are men, that’s inconsistency. If we stand on our feminist soapbox and demand equality, but then look at him with expectant eyes when the bill gets placed on the table, he sees inconsistency.Inconsistency = bad.

just as women like bad boys sometimes men like bad women.

I agree that many women like a “bad boy.” But there’s two phases to this. There’s the attraction to the guy who are genuinely bad or unhealthy for us. Then, as we mature and date our share of the bad boys, we realize that we still want a guy with that sort of edge and mystery to him but who also has a sense of vulnerability about him.

ATWYSBlog

@ATWYSBlog Jeremy Renner is the perfect mix of dark with an edge and vulnerability. #thatswhatwomenwant

The men and women who go for the traditional “bitches” and “bad boys” have a need for approval. It’s that simple. Those of us who crave approval will go for the unavailable man or woman, hoping against hope that we can change them. My guess is this all starts with the dynamic they had with their parents. If they had a particularly critical mother or father, or one that wasn’t around, then they spend their lives trying to re-create that dynamic and right the wrong.

Breebree, I think you hang around with men who have issues and who are drama queens and that has badly distorted your perception of men and relationships in general. Get new friends. Stat.

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65 Responses to “Do Men Really Love Bitches?”

  1. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “Yes, in many cases, it is the woman’s looks that keeps these low self-esteemed men around. Being with a “hot” woman gives them a sense of social proof.”

    I think you overstate the need for “social proof” as a motivating factor for men. Men date “hot” women becuse men want to have sex with them, primarily. Not because they want other people to think they have a hot woman – that’s secondary, in my opinion, at least for a heterosexual man. “Social proof” is for people that don’t care that much about the physical act of sex, and need other reasons to date. Like, you know, women.

    If a man dates someone who you think is a bitch, it’s because he thinks she is very physically attractive and he wants to sleep with her. Sure, it could be that he has low self esteem and the women gives him “self” proof – that is, that she makes him feel like a better person for being able to get a girl like her, but, for men, it’s not about “proving” something to other men.

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    • Horace Says:

      “Social proof” is when something is “vouched for” — directly or indirectly — by someone. An example would be when having a “hot” woman makes other people interested in or pay attention to you.

      If you don’t care about the social proof of having a hot women at your side, it might just be you.

      Everyone is subject to the effects of social proof, men included. As a man, while I certainly want to have sex with women, having a “trophy” on my arm for all to see is thoroughly appealing. (Of course, being an intelligent human, I don’t have to act blindly on either of those urges.)

      A man will certainly date a bitch because he wants to sleep with her, but don’t under estimate mens’ desire to be seen with someone attractive. If I’m dating someone new and hot, I can’t wait for my friends to see. Maybe it’s insecure… that’s not the point here. That it’s human and natural is the point. It’s that feeling of “look what I’m worthy of.” It the same as walking into a bar with a hot date. I love it. It feels good. It’s validating as a man. It strokes my primitive, competition-for-mates gene.

      Most importantly, we know that women (in general), being social creatures, will quite often take cues from other women. This is why so much of advertising works. Thus, if women see me with an attractive woman, they’ll naturally assume I’m worthy of attractive women. It ups my perceived value. This is real. Women definitely treat me differently when I have the social proof of other women, especially when those other women are attractive.

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      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        Maybe it’s insecure… that’s not the point here.

        Isn’t it?

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        • myself Says:

          Yeah insecurity is totally the point. Men being up this whole “it’s in our genes” bullshit when they think they may look petty and shallow. I’d like to think a secure man is going to be proud of the woman he picks even if she’s not the hottest thing out there. I certainly have male friends that do. So perhaps it’s just another one of those NYC things that make me thankful for being up here in Canada.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Horace, I thought I made clear that I was only referring to heterosexual males in my comment.

        But, seriously, it could be just me and I may be way off base. To be social proof, there has to be an assumption that other guys CARE that you have a hot girlfriend. This, I think, is where I disagree with you. When I see a couple walking down the street, if the woman is attractive, I think to myself “hot” or “I’d do her” or even “gee, I’d like to take her to meet mom” but I wouldn’t even notice the guy let alone size him up or be impressed with him. The pretty girl is what I want. I don’t care about dudes.

        Now, from what I hear and read, this is not true of women. They see a couple walking down the street and, if the guy is attractive, they look at the woman he’s with and size her up. What is SHE doing with him? Etc. They care. Since they care, they assume correctly that other women care when they themselves score a good guy. Women care about other women.

        That is what I meant by social proof. And, while irrelevant to Bree and her manifesto, I stand by my comment. Though, as I said, I may be unique.

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  2. Howard Says:

    It’s easy to equate bitches and bad boys, but I don’t think it’s that easy a comparison. The naked truth is that men are attracted to looks, provocative alluring behavior and hot sex. Some men take it way too far and will overlook everything else in a woman’s personality. They litterally become addicted to a woman who looks a certain way or acts in that alluring way.

    The unfortunate reality is that some women who have that look that men find desirsble or that alluring provocative behavior, quickly realize it, and use it to manipulate. They know how to dangle that carrot on a stick.

    Let’s look at the nice girl picture. Sure there are attractive nice girls, but what is often the case, is that these girls are not considered as attractive, in the sexy sense. Maybe a half of these girls could learn to cast that spell with some learned alluring and provocative behavior, and better dressing, but for some, it will never happen because their looks are too plain.

    The only advice I can give them is to be realistic and not try to step too far beyond their reach in their demands in the looks and confidence department for the men they choose. Luckily for women, looks in a man is not as critical a demand as it is for a man, so they can certainly end up being much more contented than men with a partner with average looks. This leads us into the bad boy dynamic.

    For women the holy grail seems to be confidence and charm. The same behavior described about bitches, takes place here too. Some of the guys with confidence and charm quickly realize it and takes things into the manipulative bad boy territory.

    Interestinglly enough, guys have an easier time changing their luck. It’s always possible to change the way one behaves, but very hard to change the way one looks. And women can help guys change their behavior too. The smart woman knows how to take a diamond in the rough and polish it. After all, why do guys spend on the first date and after, going to great lengths to ensure a woman has an enjoyable time. They are trying to impress a woman. So approval means a lot. Therefore a woman can do a lot to increase a guy’s confidence and make him even more attractive to her. Unfortunately a man is limited in changing a woman’s looks so hence we see some men stuck on bitches.

    I guess they never learned the New York truism. ‘A pretty girl on every street corner but a good woman still hard to find’

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  3. Saj Says:

    Some men will even ask to be manipulated with sex. Tease me, taunt me fulfill my needs and I’ll do anything you wish! Some guys really enjoy that dynamic and for them getting their sexual needs attended to trumps how nice a woman is to them on a regular basis. Sure they like vulnerable because it feels like they are reaching them and there is light at the end of the bitchy tunnel.

    Men like a passionate woman in the bedroom and with passion that can ooze into other aspects of life and suddenly become drama. Nice guys have that same problem because that word is usually attached to unattractive men with zero sex appeal where nice is the only thing going for them.

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  4. P. Says:

    One thing that I have learned from online dating which actually was quite surprising, is that there are a lot more guys out there than I ever knew who want a dominant female partner, whether it’s for dominatrix-type stuff sexually, or who want that kind of power balance in their relationships.

    Who knows why, whether it’s because they grew up in households headed by strong females/single mothers, have different kind of turn-ons regarding masculinity and femininity than most, or because they exercise so much power during the day that they want to turn it over to someone else at home….that’s between them and their therapist, I guess. (I’m not saying it’s wrong…just different.)

    I’m not saying that every strong woman is a bitch — that’s not true at all. But I think some guys are just drawn to the ones that are — often the ones we consider “nice guys.” A lot of nice guys don’t get the time of day from nice girls — the ones who are drawn to bad boys or who just need a little more of a dynamic personality. But the “mean girls” intrinsically know that if they don’t want to be alone, they have to find someone who will tolerate their behavior, and if they’re to be successful, to find the ones whose psychological needs include some level of verbal abuse or disrespect.

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  5. dimplz Says:

    I agree with Moxie here. I do think men like a woman who’s assertive but can also be vulnerable. The reason being because we all like to be needed. If you want a successful relationship, you want the other person to feel on some level that they want to be with *you,* not just anyone. That means being communicative, either in not tolerating certain behaviors, and being very permissive of others. No two people always want the same thing from each other. I’m very big on respect, so I think men can tell pretty early on that I won’t tolerate being called a *bitch* even in jest, because it leads to a certain level of disrespect that I am not comfortable with. I mostly focus on being fun to be around and speaking up only when pushed past my comfort level. I’m not quick to lose my temper, but when I do, I make amends. I won’t pretend to be someone I’m not. The people who know me love me for who I am, and I am myself.Can I be a bitch? Absolutely. We all have our dark sides. But I am not consistently a bitch or harpie. I pick and choose my battles.

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  6. Craig Says:

    I can’t speak for all men on this, just myself. I personally am not drawn to bitches. I am however drawn to hot women. It just so happens that a lot of hot women are bitches if they know they’re hot and it goes to their head. So as they say, the rest is history. But let’s make one thing clear: Such women were never considered long-term potential for me. I’d have my fun and enjoy the temporary high of having a hot woman on my arm for a short while for all to see, but then I’d tire of their boorish personalities and then move on. Mere beauty isn’t enough for me to stay with a woman long term if she brings nothing else to the table. When I finally came across a hot woman who wasn’t a bitch, I did what every smart man does – I married her. But bitchy women are what I call firecrackers – good for one bang and that’s it.

    As to the OP’s question, I’m afraid the honest answer is an unpleasant one. But Moxie answered it perfectly and honestly when she said:

    I think the real question you are asking, which you mentioned, is how come these men will date all these “wrong” women and not date you? Here’s why: They aren’t attracted to you. It’s not because you are too good or too sane or just not “bad” enough. It’s that they just don’t find you attractive enough to date.

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    • Breebree Says:

      Craig I’ve had more than enough men tell me I’m a beautiful and sexy woman. When I was a child I modeled and did a commercial in the early 80′s. I modeled in college also. Granted I’m not that tall – only 5’2, but I’m far from unattractive. I’ve dated men who were models (not in magazines like Tyson Beckford) and men who were in the music business. I’m from Philly and went to parties where pro basketball players and football players tried to get my number.
      My bff was a professional magazine model. She was in Ebony, Essence, and a David’s Bridal model. She has done commercials. She is 5’11 and very beautiful. Her personality is a lot like mine. She is the most down to earth, sweetest, and nicest people I know. We’ve been friends since 3rd grade and we are still just as close as we were in school. She is still single, no kids, and 35.
      I have a cousin who is a bbw….she is pretty but she is very big. What most would consider fat. She’s 40 now and has a man she has been with for a year now. Prior to that she was in an 8 year relationship with a man 8 yrs younger than her. Her ex still stalks her and says he loves her and wants her back. My cousin has a very loud and out-going personality. Many people love and hate her…lol Many times she has been called a bitch….and she will respond “thats Miss bitch to you” or “yes I am and I’m the best bitch you will ever meet and don’t you forget it.” She is strong and confident and very out-going and takes what she wants and doesn’t take any sh** from anyone. But she is a sweet and loving person when she wants to be. My cousin has Never had a problem getting mens attention and having men flirt with her and want to be with her. I can’t remember her Not having a boyfriend for too long.
      So Craig I say that to say I do understand your point. And your right obviously those men aren’t attracted enough to me in some way. With the exception of 1 or 2 I know it has nothing to do with them not finding me attractive because they have tried to sleep with me and when I asked them if they think I’m attractive they say yes (unless every man that told me I looked good lied).
      I think a big part of it is personality. I’m an out-going person, but not loud and boisterous and don’t force, seduce, or cajole anyone into anything. If a man is with me I want it to be because he wants to be, not because he felt compelled to be for some superficial reason or felt pressured to be. I do not have a bossy or domineering personality either. So I am thinking that possibly has something to do with it.

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      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        Something both you and Saj should understand…

        These men who like to be dominated/humiliated or who go for the “BBW’S” are mostly fetishists. Meaning, they have a particular sexual/physical attraction to the atypical. They are with these dominant or BBW women *because* they are dominant or BBW. Not in spite of that fact.

        So that BBW cousin of yours probably isn’t really getting away with being a bitch. (Even though her retorts are just so sassy and adorable!) She just attracts men who like her because of her size. That attraction, pardon the pun, outweighs their more rational thoughts.

        Also, Breebree? Please refrain from replying to every comment with a counterpoint.

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        • Saj Says:

          Huh? I was talking about personal experience actually and no I’m not BBW but borderline anorexic (as you know) or a dominatrix wannabe. I’m sure this TMI will give you lots of ammo to attack me with in the future so enjoy though we know you are just as kinky but in different ways.

          It’s not about domination or humiliation (though sure a part of me would get a kick out of being verbally abusive to a man in the act but you can’t really do that with someone you love without hurt feelings so I don’t do that – One of my kinks I have to supress)

          In my relationships case it’s actually more wholesome and sweet then that. Where he’ll go you could totally own me sexually if you wanted to or used it to get me to do anything you want (meaning chores, putting up xmas lights, vacuuming, cute normal stuff)

          In another case it was more (i guess it’s complicated but toxic as fuck) lets just say the dynamic was weird and he would demand/beg I would play a certain role of being a tease or seducer or just plain mean (not a domination role) and he’d reward me when I did with whatever (not monetary and we both got something out of it). And yes I was a huuuuge bitch to this person which was probably part of the draw for him, not a please dominate me Saj! but more of a I’ll show her, I’ll prove her wrong sort of deal when she talks to me like that. You could say being a bitch was motivating and something he got addicted to. That could qualify in the fetish category as he seems to always be drawn to girls who treat him poorly and he has a weird desire to punish/win them over.

          For the friends of the OP it could just be a milder case of that. There is something in their bitchiness that also can be alluring sexually so they take the bad with the good while complaining all the while. The OP may have none of this allure so when questioned the guys don’t have an easy answer for her.

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          • Breebree Says:

            I agree Saj that many folks find bitchiness sexually alluring and a huge turn on. Some men do for a while enjoy being dominated…
            But what I’m talking about goes beyond just sexual…..Because when you allow folks to treat you bad and use you in general in relationships that goes waaaaaay beyond sexual.

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          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            I’m sure this TMI will give you lots of ammo to attack me with in the future so enjoy though we know you are just as kinky but in different ways.

            You’re another one who needs to learn to stop yapping about herself. If you’re so afraid of being “attacked” then stop talking about yourself so much. You know I know who you are, and yet even that doesn’t stop you from broadcasting your kinks and maladies. So please spare me this little bit of defensive self-vicitmization. You don’t even realize that what you’re describing IS A FETISH.

            In another case it was more (i guess it’s complicated but toxic as fuck) lets just say the dynamic was weird and he would demand/beg I would play a certain role of being a tease or seducer or just plain mean (not a domination role) and he’d reward me when I did with whatever (not monetary and we both got something out of it).

            Yeah. THAT’S A FETISH.

            It’s not about domination or humiliation

            Yes, it is.

            Jesus.

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            • Saj Says:

              You do know that you follow just about every one of my comments with a comment of your own that has an attack in it right? It’s a weird high school stalker thing and it’s pretty funny but boorish as well. I ignore them 90% of the time but eventually it’s just….come on. Really? Your 42 fucking years old. Start pretending like it.

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              • Saj Says:

                I’m not arrogant enough to think it’s just me you do it too. You complain about bullying yet you’ve done nothing but bully breebree in this post which is why I’m bothering to respond to you now as opposed to ignoring your goading as usual because that’s what bothers me more then your attacks on me. You bully Paula (though she doesn’t seem to mind it) you bully everyone at some point when your having a bad day or got some angry energy or emotion you need to get out and use your comments section as your place for doing it. It’s not cool and you should find new hobbies other then starting cat fights with every person you have access to.

                You don’t need to attack the people who read your blog to prove you are some sort of bad ass. You don’t need to take every single bit of information someone says and use it against them the second they disagree with you on a completely unrelated topic. If you want to talk personal information you post retarded pictures of your breasts for no reason other then hoping to get some compliments and then shame someone else for doing something far less grandiose and narcissistic.

                You’ve been right bitchy for weeks now and it’s probably something in your personal life causing that your lashing that energy out on your blog. I’m sorry about whatever is going on but calm the fuck down with the hostility and bitterness and leave innocent posters like breebree alone who are just trying to figure out something simple and bothered to write into for answers, not scorn and attacks.

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                • Crotch Rocket Says:

                  “innocent posters like breebree … who are just trying to figure out something simple” The problem with that is they (and you) are not “innocent”. She may be trying to “figure out something simple”, but when it’s explained to her, she obsessively disagrees and brings up even more facts that prove the explanation was actually correct (like you and P.).

                  You’ve got problems. That’s fine–so does everyone else here. However, some of us are here to learn from others and work on our problems, while others are here to prove their superiority and attack those who are trying to help them. And that sets Moxie off, because it’s hypocritical and toxic to the group as a whole. These “attacks”, as you call them, are the only way she can try to break through all the layers of self-delusion some women have. (It still doesn’t work, but at least we can’t fault her for lack of effort.)

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                  • Breebree Says:

                    Crotch Rocket I think yall are making more out of it than what it simply is….
                    It’s simply my response and opinion…Some people I have agreed with. I agreed with some things in Moxie’s original response, just not all of it.
                    I think we just have a difference of opinion….doesn’t mean there is right or wrong…..just different…..*smile*
                    Again I don’t post to get answers to my problems from total strangers….I simply post to get opinions and see the thought processes of other people and their opinions to get different ideas and view points on things.
                    I didn’t realize I had to silently agree with everyone here.
                    Duly Noted….

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              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                You do know that you follow just about every one of my comments with a comment of your own that has an attack in it right?

                That’s your problem, Saj. You think anyone that isn’t impressed or amused by your stories is attacking you. You’re so thoroughly impressed with yourself that you can’t see how silly you sound. You actually think the things you share make you look good. Newflash: They don’t.

                You don’t need to take every single bit of information someone says and use it against them the second they disagree with you on a completely unrelated topic.

                You and the rest of the oversharers need to drop this. You also need to be able to learn the difference between a personal attack and someone citing reasons that the poster provides themselves for why they believe what they believe. Don’t want people doing that, stop over sharing. It’s like you want everybody to have selective memory. You want the freedom to blather on endlessly about your problems, but you don’t want anybody actually retaining any of that information and throwing it back in your face whenever you decide to get all superior and high and mighty. You can’t wait to share your opinions of Paula. You’ll jump in to any pile on if it allows you to take some kind of superior role. So get over yourself with this ridiculous “bully” crap.

                You’ve been right bitchy for weeks now and it’s probably something in your personal life causing that your lashing that energy out on your blog

                I’ve been perfectly happy in my real life. It’s here that I find myself getting frustrated and upset. I’m sick to death of people using this blog as their own personal group therapy session or stage. Your problem is that you’re used to be around men (do you have any girlfriends??) who tolerate your self-absorption.Nobody gives a flaming shit about your problems or about some loser who tried to buy you jeans. Nobody. Gives. A. Shit. Nobody is impressed. Nobody is amused.

                If you want to talk personal information you post retarded pictures of your breasts for no reason other then hoping to get some compliments and then shame someone else for doing something far less grandiose and narcissistic.,

                The glaring difference, Saj, is that I KNOW when I’m being an attention whore. I admit it. I put disclaimers on such things. That’s called self-awareness. I’m not shoehorning stories about my personal life in to every post and every thread day after day.

                I’m sorry about whatever is going on but calm the fuck down with the hostility and bitterness and leave innocent posters

                The person in desperate need of an attitude change is you. You need to learn that everybody here isn’t obligated to find you amusing and has the right to point out when you’re lacking perspective. You took a comment explaining fetishes as a personal attack, when it was merely a clarification of something you and BreeBree said.

                You come here with your bravado and act all impressed with yourself, only to crumple in the fetal position when anybody dares point out how self-involved you are. Might I suggest getting a thicker skin if you’re going to broadcast all the nitty gritty details of your past.

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      • dimplz Says:

        “…when I asked them if they think I’m attractive they say yes (unless every man that told me I looked good lied).”

        You should never ask a man if he thinks you’re attractive. That’s like holding a loaded gun to someone’s head. You have to know that you are. No point in asking other people to feed your ego. It reeks of insecurity, and I can bet you my next paycheck that’s why men aren’t attracted to you. You ooze insecurity and wariness and think in binary terms when it comes to people, and no man wants to go out with a woman that they will have to tell her she’s attractive because she keeps asking. It’s one thing for them to do it on their own, but how would you feel if a man you dated did that to you? Wouldn’t you think it’s inconsequential? I’m dating you, I’m with you, what other reassurance do you need? If that’s happening early on when you meet someone, you can be sure that’s why these relationships aren’t getting off the ground. Sorry, but it’s too much work, for anyone. They could easily be with a less attractive woman who is confident and they’d find that to be the easier relationship. So it’s not always hotness that trumps niceness. It’s the person who you can enjoy yourself with the most, and who’s not asking you at every turn how she looks.

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        • Breebree Says:

          dimplz I don’t necessarily always ask men “do you think I’m pretty.” I do have conversations with them as to why they choose the women they complain about. I may ask them what do they think of me, and they tell me. I don’t give anyone a reason to lie to me. I try to make people feel comfortable enough to tell me the straight up truth whether it’s good or bad. Those that know me know that I’m not judgemental and I’m not a woman who flips out just because a man disagrees with me and/or doesn’t tell me what I want to hear…I’m more of a “grown azz woman” than that.
          I haven’t acted like a spoiled brat since I was a child.
          So I have no reason to believe men who know me would tell me what I want to hear just to spare my feelings….plus I don’t do that with them. I tell them the truth and give my opinion good or bad.
          What some of you imply just makes no sense to me….that a man would lie to a woman he doesn’t want to date in the first place, on the phone, tell her she’s great and beautiful and in reality he thinks she is not attractive………???
          For the most part many of the men I’ve known have no qualms with telling a woman if they aren’t physically attracted to her. The way most say this is “your not my type.”

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 10

          • dimplz Says:

            My point is that you don’t need to ask anyone what they think of you, whether it’s that they think you are smart or attractive or funny. Personally, aside from someone whom is providing a reference for you, you should never ask anyone to provide you with an opinion about you. I think if they want to tell you themselves, they will. If they don’t feel compelled to tell you without provocation, the way in which you are soliciting compliments is unnecessary. It’s my opinion that people who have huge egos do that kind of thing, and you seem to have a big one, being that you write in with these questions and then debate every person who responds. If you are not like this, then you are misrepresenting yourself by being such a presence when you wrote in a question and wanted to know what other people think. This is what *I* think, and it just so happens to not agree with you, and you’re going to have to live with that. Sorry if that sounds *bitchy.*

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            • Breebree Says:

              Everyone is entitled to their opinion dimplz…..sorry but I’m not a doormat who asks a question or makes a statement and everyone comments and I sit back and say nothing. Before I respond I do read everyone’s comments.
              Question to you – why would you want to be with someone who never told you what they thought about you?
              Personally I would rather have someone be with me for the Right Reasons or not at all as opposed to not knowing and they are with me for superficial reasons.
              But to each his own.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 15

              • dimplz Says:

                I don’t have to *ask* people what they think of me. I don’t think you’re a doormat if you listen to what people say and don’t feel compelled to respond, just as I am not responding to your personal question to me.

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

              • Crotch Rocket Says:

                “why would you want to be with someone who never told you what they thought about you?” Nobody would. You’re missing the point. If you have to ask someone what they think about you, that’s probably because the truth isn’t something they think you want to hear. If the truth were positive, they’d be happy to tell you without being asked.

                So, if you have to ask, you already know the answer–and actually voicing the question is just a transparent request for them to lie to you.

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          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            “I don’t give anyone a reason to lie to me.” ROFL. You possess a vagina; that’s enough reason for both men and women to lie to you, though obviously for different reasons.

            “I try to make people feel comfortable enough to tell me the straight up truth whether it’s good or bad.” Going by your comments here, you’re not as good at that as you seem to think. I’ve told you the straight-up truth on several occasions, as have many others, and you immediately respond by telling us how we’re wrong. Okay; no more truth for you. You’re even doing it in this very thread!

            “many of the men I’ve known have no qualms with telling a woman if they aren’t physically attracted to her. The way most say this is ‘your not my type.’” I’ve tried that numerous times, and in most cases the women do exactly what you’re doing here: they argue with me and try to convince me I’m wrong. The problem: deep down, they believe I’m right and are really trying (and failing) to convince themselves that they’re attractive. Confident people don’t do that–and probably don’t get dumped as often or suffer the Fade, even if they’re objectively less attractive physically.

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            • Breebree Says:

              Trust me I’ve never stayed long with any man that didn’t want me.
              The second a man expresses that he no longer wants to be with me I bow out gracefully and walk away.
              As I kid I was told “closed mouths don’t get fed. If you want something you have to speak up and ask for it. If you want answers to questions you have to open your mouth and ask.”
              I learned that to be true from experience…I haven’t got what I wanted too much from keeping my mouth shut and saying nothing so I will continue to do what works for me.
              And Crotch Rocket what some of you fail to realize is Everybody is Different. There is no cookie cutter mold for people. Just because you and everyone you know is a certain way and does and says certain things doesn’t mean this applies to everyone else.
              There are plenty of people who hold in their feelings and emotions and very rarely say how they feel in relationships and if you don’t ask you won’t know because they won’t just tell you and volunteer that information. (many men are notorious for this type of behavior).
              Even if you feel like your expressing how you feel to a person that doesn’t mean they are receiving it the way you intended or they understand where your coming from.
              Example – I know people who are totally clueless when they are being flirted with. They aren’t paying attention and in their own little world. Several men have told me a woman has to practically beat them over the head and say to them “hey I like you” for them to “get it.” Just because they don’t “get it” doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t like that woman and aren’t attracted to her….they may be shy or intimidated by her or don’t know how to approach her. I’ve talked to several men on dating sites who say the main reason they are on there is because they don’t know how to approach women in social settings comfortably.
              Everyone is does not scream it out to the world when they like a person and everyone is not very transparent with their feelings and emotions…in fact many people are very guarded with how they feel and will like a person to high heaven but be scared to show it for various reasons.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “It reeks of insecurity, ” Not to mention that experience has taught me women who are so insecure they fish for compliments never really believe me when I say they are attractive, and they’re always jealous deep down that I’m going to dump them for another woman. This is a big part of where clingyness comes from: women want to crawl up a guy’s ass and spend time with him 24×7 (literally–always wanting to talk on the phone, emails, marathon dates, moving in quickly, always hinting about marriage, etc.) to ensure he never meets another woman because they are worried they won’t compare favorably. Ironically, it is usually that insecurity that causes men to dump these women, not their actual looks or other attributes–and makes them even more insecure with the next man. It’s a vicious cycle.

          This is what we’re talking about when we say men (and women) are attracted to confidence. Be happy with being you.

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        • nyxalinth Says:

          I’m dating you, I’m with you, what other reassurance do you need?

          Not always a given, unfortunately. I dated a guy very briefly almost 20 years ago who saw me as some sort of persona makeover project, probably because he wanted a hot girlfriend like his brother had, and couldn’t get one. He knew damned well I was a fat, geeky, smart woman who loved reading and computer games and couldn’t care less about what career I was in as long as I could take care of myself and pay the bills from the get-go. Two weeks in, he started in on me about everything, especially my weight. I dumped him four weeks later…four weeks too long.

          That sort of thing is pretty rare, I know. Most guys don’t settle for a woman they aren’t attracted to as-is, but it does happen.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Craig Says:

        Craig I’ve had more than enough men tell me I’m a beautiful and sexy woman… With the exception of 1 or 2 I know it has nothing to do with them not finding me attractive because they have tried to sleep with me and when I asked them if they think I’m attractive they say yes (unless every man that told me I looked good lied).

        And how many of these men did you end up in long-term relationships with? Don’t confuse the actions of men who are trying to get in your pants as opposed to men who want to be with you long-term. You’ll always have plenty of men who will tell you what you want to hear in order to fuck you, but we’re discussing why you struggle finding someone to date you seriously. How many men try to sleep with a woman is not a barometer of her attractiveness. I lot of men try to fuck Snookie on the Jersey Shore too – I seriously doubt it’s because she’s so hot.

        I can’t speak to your two friends’ situations, except to say that two people is hardly a reliable statistical sample. Somehow I doubt you’d want the man your BBW friend has. You need to concentrate on what YOU need to do in order to have the success you want with the men that you want. The common demominator in your struggles is you and you need to get to the bottom of it if you want to turn it around. Perhaps the problem isn’t anything about the way your look or act at all – but rather it’s your taste in men. Perhaps you prefer men that just aren’t into your type. In that case, it’s time for you to find a new type you’re into.

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  7. Breebree Says:

    Thanks for your opinion Moxie. I agree with most of it. I never thought about the title of the book just being an attention getter but you have a point there too….I’m not sure if you read Why Men Love Bitches but from what I can remember I think the authors point was that men like and will moreso respond to women who are assertive, aggressive, powerful and confident. Those “type” of women sometimes come across as bitches (especially to other females). But they are the type of women who get what they want because of their assertiveness. They rarely take no for an answer and are never passive and don’t wait for things to be given to them, they take what they want no questions asked.
    One person I think is like this is Patty Stanger from Millionaire Matchmakers. At first I didn’t like Patty and thought she was a crazy bitch who always wanted to be right and thought it was all about her and thought she was “God’s Gift” to matchmaking.
    I realized though that those things are why people like Patty and why they watch and love her show and being that bitchy woman is probably what got her where she is in her career and on t.v. in the first place.
    I admit that some of what she tells her clients is right. I liked her when I saw her on the Bravo show with the gay guy that interviews reality t.v. stars. I liked her after that interview because she said that she has apologized to her staff and she tries to treat them respectfully and well because she does appreciate them. She also said with the man in her life she is not like that…she is the opposite and more passive with a man she is dating or in a relationship with. That softened her a bit. I still think she goes off on people too hard and too much….lol
    At any rate, I understand your points. And I probably do need to cut off some folks who seem to enjoy and feed off of “drama.” A few of the guys though that I am friends with are in my opinion truly good men. They are the total opposite in personality of the women they have been with. They are kind, sweet, loving, great & responsible fathers and treat women with respect and kindness and go out of their way for people.
    For instance the guy I mentioned in my initial post explained that he didn’t date me because he is in NYC and his kids are there and he doesn’t want to leave them and wants to be close to them until they are grown. He didn’t want to do a long distance relationship. I’m in DC. Thats understandable.
    But still he’s everything a woman would want in a man. He treats women he dates very very well….we’re just friends and he treated me very well. Always helped me whenever I needed help with anything and never asked for anything in return. I’ve met his family and he has a big family and he’s a twin but his family is pretty good. Everyone has issues and problems but his aren’t any worse than anyone else’s. I can’t understand why this guy and a few others I know allow women to take their kindness for a weakness and use them and then piss on them and move on to someone else.
    I think just in society in general people’s mentalities have become warped and backwards.
    What I see a great deal of in dating and relationships is women getting a good man in their life who loves them and treats them well and they treat him like sh** and use him and they get a man who is an azzhole and doesn’t treat them half as good and they kiss his azz.. I see men who meet good, decent, nice women and only see them as friends or don’t want them but then get with women who are azzholes and moreso about the mans money and what he can do for her than she is him as a person and how he treats her.
    Then these people who get with people not good for them complain about them and think “all men are dogs” or “all women are crazy selfish bitches” and project this attitude on other people. They also blame the people they got with and wonder where all the good people and why can’t I find a good man or a good woman? It’s like folks are completely blind to the fact that they have good men and women around them, they just don’t want them.
    Moxie I’ve said this to a few guy friends. I’ve told them straight up that they need to stop complaining because they do not want the good women, they choose the bad ones and suffer the consequences. They are delusional or in denial or something because they argue thats not the case and make excuses upon excuses. This is what makes me think some folks are going bat sh** crazy……..

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 8

    • LaLa Says:

      In the book Why Men Love Bitches the author never says for women to be aggressive or bitchy. She says that women should be confident, assertive, have boundaries, have their own life, and not be a doormat for a man. It is possible to be sweet, feminine, soft, and nice, while also having boundaries and asserting your needs.

      Also Patti in Millionaire Matchmaker openly admits that while she is a bull-buster in her career, she is very soft and feminine in her relationships.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

      • Saj Says:

        I always call bull when I hear people (self proclaim usually) that they are a real tiger/bitch/ballbuster at work but sweet and kind at home. You don’t have to be a jerk to be successful at your job and you don’t have to treat your staff like trash. If someone does that anyway and then comes home and is super sweet then I’m not buying it. I’d love to hear a second hand opinion on oh such and such is a jerk at worse but great otherwise. Those are far more rare.

        These people are just jerks period and their husband/boyfriend whatever are covering up or fear telling them the truth due to the jerky backlash that is bound to happen. It’s really hard to fake an entire persona 8 hours a day beyond being slightly more polite and professional and careful about what you talk about.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

      • Dimplz Says:

        I’m almost positive that I read that Patti said her clients are not depicted in the show. Her real clients would not agree to be filmed for a reality show. You can read about it here if you like: http://www.realitytea.com/2011/10/27/is-patti-stangers-millionaire-matchmaker-show-staged-says-real-clients-are-too-discrete-for-a-reality-show/

        I’d compare her to Judge Judy: a sweetheart in real life, and a ball buster for ratings. Judy does it better.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  8. Breebree Says:

    The other thing I see is folks repeatedly choosing the same type of person and constantly complaining about them and asking why can’t I find a good man or a good woman.
    I’m like because you keep choosing the same type of person time and time again crazy azz!
    Goes back to 1 definition of crazy – doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    I had to learn this lesson myself the hard way years ago…but I learned it and am much more open to various men regardless of looks, social status, and money.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6

  9. joe-f Says:

    I agree with Moxie. I think it all comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. We will balance your bitchiness against the benefits you bring. Some men need the status symbol of a hot girl, some don’t. If your bitchiness is greater than the benefits, you bring, we will bang you but never date you seriously. Bottom, line, decrease bitchiness and increase the benefits to get and keep your man.

    I think attractiveness is another whole another issue. If we don’t find you attractive, no matter how many benefits you bring, you will always just be a friend. I am sorry but there is no happy ending.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  10. Breebree Says:

    As much as I understand everyone’s point about attractiveness I know first-hand that is not always the case.
    I think attractiveness is relative…..because there is a certain standard of “societal attractiveness” ie Halle Berry, Kate Hudson and Meagan Fox.
    But I know men who have said Halle Berry is not that good looking to them. Some men have said Kate Hudson and other actresses are too skinny.
    Everyone is attracted to people for different reasons.
    I’m not a conceited person at all, however, I have had many men over the years tell me I was pretty, beautiful, sexy, and had a pretty smile. I’ve never had a problem attracting men and most men I wanted I had no problem dating. Thing is as I’ve gotten older I want good quality men, not necessarily the finest man and the man with the most money….those men sometimes come with issues, drama, and problems, and can be liars and cheaters.
    The nice guys I am speaking of for the sake of this post are average looking guys Not making six figures an just regular joe’s.
    I just think it’s a shame that people seem to self sabotage in love and relationships and it’s pitiful that they sit and wonder why they can’t find and keep the love they want……

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13

    • Craig Says:

      I’m not a conceited person at all, however, I have had many men over the years tell me I was pretty, beautiful, sexy, and had a pretty smile. I’ve never had a problem attracting men and most men I wanted I had no problem dating. Thing is as I’ve gotten older I want good quality men, not necessarily the finest man and the man with the most money….those men sometimes come with issues, drama, and problems, and can be liars and cheaters.

      So you were having no problem over the years attracting men – they told you that you were pretty, beautiful, sexy, and had a pretty smile. But they weren’t “good quality” by your definition. Now that you’ve gotten older and decided to step up in “quality” you’re struggling all of a sudden. It seems you may have decided to seek men out of your league. Try to find a man you can be happy with out of the types you were dating successfully previously. Water tends to seek its own level.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

      • Breebree Says:

        Again because I have attracted men of various ages young and old from various races, ethnicities, countries, and cultures it’s somewhat difficult for me to pinpoint what “type” of man is in and/or out of my “league.”
        Pretty much every man I’ve dates was different and unique in their own way. They did not have the same “look” and the did not have the same personality (especially men not from this country).
        So please help me understand how I am supposed to know for sure 100% without a shadow of a doubt what my “league” is????

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9

  11. D Says:

    It doesn’t matter what you did in the 80s. What matters is how you look now. Even the world’s most beautiful women lose their allure.

    Paulina Porizkova, once the most successful supermodel in the world, has said she no longer gets second looks from men, and that she misses it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

  12. Breebree Says:

    D I haven’t changed much. I’m not saying I’m Beyonce or Halle Berry, but I still get carded everywhere I go. Everyone thinks I’m still 20 something and I’m in my early 30′s. Everybody in my family ages pretty well and looks younger than what they are…..all in the “genes” I guess…*smile*

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 17

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Oh my God.

      Shut up!!! Shutupshutupshutup!!!!

      I just asked you in my comment above NOT to respond to every comment with a counterpoint. LEARN TO LISTEN. Stop talking so much. Stop being so god damn self-involved and self-obsessed. We get it. You love to talk about yourself and think about yourself and analyze yourself. My God. You are EXHAUSTING. THAT’S WHY YOU’RE SINGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Jesus H. Christ on Tricycle. Shuuuuuuut uuuuupppppp. You write these letters so you can sit and stalk the comments and obsess about yourself. Holy hell. You are consumed with yourself.

      Somebody help me out here. Is this just a compulsion? What IS IT about some of these people that they can’t NOT talk about themselves????

      Breebree, you’re comments are now moderated. I can’t take it any more. I’m moderating anybody that can’t make every comment about THEM.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 12

      • Breebree Says:

        Whats the purpose of having a blog if you don’t want people to comment…?????
        That makes no sense.
        Am I supposed to allow folks to voice their opinions about me and not voice my own opinions.????
        I’m far from single because I talk too much….I know women who talk a hell of a lot more than me and are married. (and no they are not necessarily beauty queens).
        I’m far from consumed with myself…I do have self love and self respect…..*smile*

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 15

      • Breebree Says:

        Sorry Moxie I can’t shut-up when I have something to say.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 19

        • Howard Says:

          It’s called being defensive Breebree. It means you should sit on a couch and talk your gut out to a professional who can help you get past your insecurities, and your constant defensive behavior and whining. That professional happens to be a trained Pyschotherapist or Psychologist. You might be better off with the latter because, I hear lately, the insurance companies are making Psychotherapists prescribe drugs rather than listen to their patients.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4

          • Breebree Says:

            I’m not defensive Howard…I just respond and speak my mind.
            I do listen, but if I have something to say then I say it. I’ve never been one
            to hold my tongue for no good reason at all.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7

        • Craig Says:

          Sorry Moxie I can’t shut-up when I have something to say.

          We finally may have gotten to the root of your problem getting men to date you.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 5

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            Thank you. Exactly.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4

          • Breebree Says:

            Craig I’m sorry for not being a dumb blond hon…..but I have opinions and I would think in a blog where the purpose is to exchange opinions thats what you do…exchange opinions.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

          • Breebree Says:

            I have no problem getting dates and male attention and men who want relationships.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9

          • PhoenixRenatus Says:

            I’m a woman and I completely agree. Not all opinions need to be heard, especialy when irrelevant. Yes! Please moderate!

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

      • vox. Says:

        Hold on, you moderate me even though I do not dominate threads and do not post tons of personal anecdotes about myself. Every other month or so I might post 5 times on a thread, typically because I am at an airport (like now). Obviously your moderation criteria is a little more extensive than that.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  13. SJ Says:

    whew…*almost* afraid to touch this one after the last exchange…

    Back to the original topic – yes, I think it is the physical attractiveness that makes guys stick. But as was said before, that can and does get old. And with me at least, push that same button just once too often and they were done. I remember the rush of having a hot girl on my arm, but it never seemed to last.

    I also remember having a number of close female friends when I was dating…and while I found them attractive, I just didn’t “see” them as girlfriend material because they were my friends, not my pursuits. The difference? I guess it was physical, but I recall all of them as being very attractive. In hindsight, if any of them had made the first physical move, things may have been different.

    Now, like Craig, I also found an attractive, funny, nice girl that, from out of the blue, just knocked my socks off. One of those “knew her for years, & never saw it coming” stories that turned into a fairy tale marriage 21 years ago. Still with her, still love her like mad. She was a casual acquaintance for 4 years before things tipped over a horrible slice of pizza at a mutual friend’s birthday paty. It can and does happen….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  14. Mark Says:

    I believe The first two paragraphs of Moxie’s response says quite a lot. By and large our eye is attracted to what we like. At least initially. That’s why profiles have photo’s. It may not be fair, but that’s usually the way it is. It’s only later that they come to the conclusion that the hassle this person causes just isn’t worth continuing the relationship.

    It also helps explain why so many men (women too) make the same type of choices over and over again. Maybe it’s some belief that the Bi*** or Bast**** in question will be that way to everyone except them. I can’t really say for certain. Yet they still do it.

    In a way this goes back to the question about wanting someone “nice”. Sure most people want nice. There are nice people around us every day. But it’s also safe to say they want more than just nice. Right? Another poster (Howard) does a pretty good job of addressing this point.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    • Breebree Says:

      I agree with you Mark that people want more than nice and they do want someone they are attracted to.
      My point is that rarely are folks honest about this. They aren’t honest about this with themselves or other people and end up with people they aren’t attracted to or people they are attracted to physically that can be azzholes.
      The bottom line is in real life you can’t always have it all.
      You can’t have the finest most beautifulest thing in the world and expect them to have a perfect sparkling nice sweet personality….The reality is sometimes with good looks comes a certain attitude and sense of entitlement and if you want a “model chick” or “video chick” then thats what it is and either you deal with it or date nice sweet less than “pretty” “gorgeous” “Hott” chicks who will treat you like you want to be treated.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

      • Angeline Says:

        The reality is that good looks sometimes comes with an abominable personality or character. The reality is that someone with the visual appeal of a troll also sometimes comes with anabominable personality or character. Bree, you refute some points with “everyone is different”, and others with ‘too many men do this’, and your original question is an attempt to generalize that any man who doesn’t pick “nice” women (you) as a sad sack who wants abuse, or an immature jerk who just can’t resist The Hot.

        The reality is that either you aren’t as hot as you believe (I really don’t want a recitation of why you really are – don’t care) or you’re somehow annoying in person (my suspicion is, as pointed out by others, you talk too damned much) or, God forbid, both.

        But your strongly guarded defense against the unpleasantness of facing that is to toss your head and say how f’d up guys are for picking ‘attractive’ or ‘able to carry on a conversation’ over whatever glistening, sparkly traits you think they *should* be valuing.

        Keep stacking those sandbags. Don’t change a thing. Because that’s working out for — oh wait. IT’S NOT.

        Stop being so enamored and defensive of the person you think you are, and work harder to be the person you could be. A good start might be to just sit quietly sometimes and absorb, instead of leaping to battle stations.

        There’s people who listen and absorb the points being made, and venture an opinion, or a considered response. And then there’s those who just wait for their turn to talk.

        Which one looks like the type that will learn something from the people around them?

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

        • Breebree Says:

          Angeline I am who I am and thats that. My problem isn’t with men for choosing to be with beautiful women…I am a black woman who wholeheartedly believes in inter-racial relationships. My closest friend is Chinese and her husband is black. Many black women hate the idea of a black man being with any woman who isn’t black. I think thats ridiculous and stupid and as long as the woman isn’t with my man I could care less about who black men date.
          So I’m far from the person you perceive me to be with regards to men and who they date.
          The original post and what I speak about is from Personal Experiences with Men I Know Personally!
          My problem isn’t that they choose beautiful and attractive women….it’s that they constantly complain about how these women treat them and the problems they have with these women yet still repeatedly choose the same woman. I know a guy who complains about the women he has dated and married and yet most all of them have been in hip hop music video’s or look like they have…..and he acts shocked that they aren’t these good, nice, sweet, women who cook and clean and cater to him. Thats what I think is crazy.
          Also men who date women who have a certain status and who are high-powered “Diva’s” like corporate execs and vp’s and complain about them and their attitudes. The question becomes are you choosing the same “type” of women. Not because they aren’t choosing me but just a different type of woman.
          Yes I talk a lot but I can listen also. And I am not a “model chick” but as I said never had a problem getting male attention and still don’t. However, I’m not a “Diva” with that type of attitude, I’m not high maintenance or flashy. I’m very simple and down to earth.
          And even if I sat and didn’t say a word as everyone chimed in their personal opinions about me (a person nobody knows outside of this blog) it wouldn’t change who I am or my thinking. I will still be the same person…..just not saying anything.
          Personally I don’t have a problem with folks responding to what I say. It’s called dialogue, debating, conversation the last time I checked.
          All I am doing is responding to people’s comments about me.
          Honestly lets be real…….if your in a room full of people talking about you, you mean to tell me you would sit back and not say a word? Even if some of the opinions about you were misconstrued….you would sit idly quietly by and let people talk about you and not speak up and say one word……?
          Well that may work for many of you but not for me.
          To each his own.

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          • vox. Says:

            WTF does race have to do with this topic? People who make everything relate to their race are BORING. I suspect that’s your real problem – you talk too much, and what you talk about is boring.

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        • Breebree Says:

          And everyone is different is a Fact, Truth……if you know differently please enlighten me………
          I say that because there seems to be a lot of generalization here. Folks seem to project who they and the people around them are onto other people and think that everyone is the same and thats just not the case.
          Some people act like anyone and/or anything that doesn’t line up with their thinking is wrong.
          For instance every man who likes full figured women isn’t necessarily a “chubby chaser”. Some men happen to fall in love with a woman who is big and if she is shapely and sexy they still love her.
          I also don’t subscribe to in and/or out of a persons league…that is belittling and basically says that certain people don’t deserve to be with other people because they aren’t good enough and to me that is bullsh**.
          But again I respect everyone’s opinions and people responding to my comments doesn’t bother me in the least…..so I’m sorry it bothers you guys.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7

  15. Saywhat! Says:

    i just laugh and this thread. Holy crap on a stick.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    • AmyRose Says:

      Agreed. A whole hot mess of people with severe cases of sour grapes and self victimization. Get some perspective on how ridiculous your petty problems are compared to the rest of the world. Deal, move on. Get over it.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  16. Glidmokk Says:

    This article failed to mention one very significant reason why many men prefer a “bitchy” woman: The man wants to feel justified in making sexual demands of that woman which she may resist or find distasteful.

    Because she is bitchy — and knows she is bitchy — she puts up with his demand for ‘more frequent sex than she really wants with him” and/or ‘sex of a sort that she does not like all that much or at all.” She endures this because she does not really want to lose the guy, even though she treats him mean. This allows him to feel completely justified in indulging in one-way-pleasure sex: His way. He is committing a little rape every time he has sex with a woman who does not really want to have sex with him but consents only with substantial complaint and even criticism of the sex while it is underway: He doesn’t care if she doesn’t like it, even enjoys that she doesnt like it because after all she is such a bitch toward him all the time, “who cares how she feels about it: She clearly doesn’t care about his feelings, so why should he care about hers?”

    A relationship like this, while maybe a little perverse, can be quite successful and endure, as both partners indulge the other. If the bitchy lady can also sometimes get excited by the guy’s aggressiveness toward her and enjoy the sex, so much the better for her — although the long-suffering guy putting up with the bitchiness may actually be happier if she never enjoys it at all, feeling that “the bitch is getting what she deserves,” while he is enjoying it like crazy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  17. Wifey Says:

    I think that the person complaining in the article should have READ “Why men love bitches” instead of just looking at the cover. It’s not a nasty, snarky, gold-digger, bitch on wheels. The author, Sherry Argov, characterizes this “bitch” as a sweet-as-peach-pie girl (fun, sweet, pretty, polite, moral, etc) who just won’t take shit from any man because she has a healthy dose of self-respect and knows that she deserves someone who will treat her right. And therefore a man is kept on his toes to be “the best man that he can be” because he knows that she won’t take shit from him and be his doormat. Versus the desperate, clingy, no-self-respect, doormat girl who will take anything from her man because she is desperate to keep him and therefore bores the man to death and ends up alone endlessly repeating her patterns.

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