How Do You Say Thanks, But No Thanks?

Name: Back in the Game
State: NY
Age: 37
Comment: I’ve been divorced for almost a year and decided to try online dating. Out of the 20 or so messages I receive a week at least 50% are from men that are nowhere close to my specified preference. I  get several messages from men of races other than I typically date. Is it considered inappropriate to write in my profile that I prefer to date men of a specific race?

 

Name: Kevin
State: NY
Age: 41
Comment: I have a line in my OKCupid profile that states that I prefer to meet someone slender or petite who shares my interest in outdoor activities and who is fit like me. At least a few times a week I receive emails from women who either reprimand me for being shallow or who try to educate me in some way. I took the line out of my profile. The emails that lectured me where then replaced with messages from women who were chubby to obese but chose “average” or “curvy” as their body types.  Women have similar deal breakers in their profiles. Do they receive these kinds of nasty messages?  Is there a way to say what I am looking for so that I don’t get so many unwanted messages?

 

Okay. Let’s reply to each letter individually and then address the situation as a whole.

First, BITG, I wouldn’t recommend putting a disclaimer in your profile stating you prefer men of a certain race. While I don’t think it makes you racist, I do think going so far as to write that sort of disclaimer out will make you look…close minded. Not only that, but publishing such a requirement is akin to waving a red flag in front of a bull. People will email you just to piss you off or annoy you because they will find what you say offensive. I believe Match allows you to select the race of the men you prefer to date. That is enough. You don’t have to go further than that. If people choose to ignore that, that’s on them.

Simply delete the messages and block the senders. I happen to think that most men skim the profiles anyway. You’re lucky if they get all the way to the bottom. I think men read the body of the profiles not to determine if their are mutual interests, but to see if there are any red flags. If the picture and the age and body type work, they’ll reply. My personal belief is that the actual text doesn’t really matter. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t make the effort, of course. They should. But I think a lot of women try way too hard to make themselves sound engaging and fun and breezy and then end up being perceived in the exact opposite way. They say too much. 300 words is a good cap. Keep it short and sweet. Tell the man how you’re going to better his life. Paint yourself as a fun date. Don’t think ten steps ahead. Most men use online dating sites to get dates, not find mates.

As for you Kevin, I’m going to give you similar advice. Going out of your way to basically say “no fatties” makes you look mean spirited. What isn’t clear to me is whether or not you are simply only attracted to slender women OR you assume that women who aren’t slender/petite aren’t “healthy.” If it’s the former, then you can’t help what you are attracted to, and no it doesn’t make you “weight-ist.” But if your preference is based on the assumption that anybody over XXX pounds can’t be active, then I think you are being short-sighted. You may be being perceived (and possibly rightly so) as ignorant.(Note: If BITG refuses to date men of certain races based on stereotypes and biases and not simply on attraction then she, too, is being ignorant.) If a woman demonstrates in her profile and photos that she leads a healthy or active lifestyle, it’s really not up to you to determine if she’s healthy or not. Include a disclaimer and, like with BITG, you’re going to encourage the women with chips on their shoulders to respond. You’ve offended them, just like BITG has offended the men that aren’t of her preferred race.

Their resentment is neither your nor BITG’s  responsibility or problem. No doubt they have their own deal breakers and must haves. They’re just pissed that they are being excluded from your pool of candidates. They have no problem excluding others from theirs.

Do women receive messages like this? Oh yeah. I’m sure the women in our audience could share their stories.

People on those sites are always trying to shame or guilt others in to giving them a chance. It reeks of desperation and bitterness. But that’s what happens when you are on the receiving end of constant rejection. You get angry. That’s why you shouldn’t reply to those people that don’t fit your specified criteria.Just don’t engage. Of course, people could avoid the constant rejection if they would only adjust their expectations and broaden their horizons. Since we can only control ourselves, the best approach is to say nothing instead of hoping against hope the other person will handle the rejection with dignity.

Then there are the people who write you and admit that they know they aren’t what you are looking for but just had to tell you how great your profile is. Again, it’s a last ditch effort to get a response. Even those messages should be ignored. More often than not, it’s a trap. Respond and they will try to sway you and take that response as a sign of some kind of defeat.They are more interested in being right than being happy. They are going to get what they want no matter what. Avoid.

Bottom line…don’t reply unless you’re interested. On some sites that might get you flagged as being one of those really selective responders. So be it. I think that’s better than being flagged as someone who responds often. I typically avoided those people. Sure, I probably pre-judged a few guys who actually did reply to people with a polite no thank you every time they got an email from someone that wasn’t for them. But I’m also sure that I ended up avoiding a lot sport fuckers. The people who went out with anyone just to get laid. So be it. I’m fine with that.

The only people who complain about such a “cold” approach are the ones frequently being rejected. At some point, those people have to learn that the choice not to reply is now one of those social rules we have come to embrace in dating. After a certain point, people have to learn to accept these rules. Especially because it’s the refusal to abide by these rules that is keeping them single.

This is why most men pay for the dates and most women won’t have sex til date three. They are social rules. We follow them not because we want to, but because not following those rules so often leads to chaos and confusion.

 

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83 Responses to “How Do You Say Thanks, But No Thanks?”

  1. jaclyn Says:

    The 37 year old woman needs to think of weeding out unsuitable men as part of the cost of online dating. A friend of mine received an initial email on match.com from a guy she had gone out with for a few months and had a bad breakup. When she questioned him as to why she had gotten the email, he apologized and told her that he had put some criteria in the match search engine, and sent an initial email to all of the women who met his criteria, including his ex-girlfriend. Unfortunately, anything you can say to prevent the wrong sort of people from writing to you would also scare off the good men whom you want to meet.

    And to Kevin, I was thin when I dated online, but if I saw a disclaimer about weight I would never meet a guy for a first date. In fact the men who requested additional pictures also got rejected, because even though I was attractive and slender I did not want to date a man who put that much emphasis on my looks. If it is that important to you, you can choose to only write to women who have enough pictures posted that can ensure that they fit your criteria, but any disclaimer in your profile will chase away some of the women you might want.

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    • C Says:

      I disagree with this perspective. It’s too often in our society that men are constantly shamed for their preoccupation with looks. Have you ever considered they owe it to their biological imperative to do so? Women require a number of things in order to achieve intimacy, men just require physical attractiveness, how is this unreasonable?

      If I were a man on a dating site, I would specify my physical preferences, and those who don’t like it or feel marginalized due to my preferences enough to have to message me with their shaming tactics, can honestly go fuck off and subsequently blocked. It is widely known that the preferred female body type for most men is a slim woman with firm breasts and curvy in that she has a notable waist to hip ratio.

      Stating what you’re looking for physically in a man or a woman is no less sacred or legitimate than stating what you’re looking for emotionally or intellectually. They are preferences! Just make sure you can attract whatever it is that you prefer and aren’t being deluded about your own worth.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        I think you’re missing the point a little. Superficiality is itself a turnoff to many people. Maybe not you, I suppose but others are. So, even if a woman meets your exacting physical standards, she may pass because you’re too focused on physicality. She is also more likely to be skeptical looking at your pictures – most people think they’re hotter than they are. She may think you’re unreasonable and hard to please. These are not good or attractive qualities. The prime directive when writing a profile is “do no harm.”

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        • SunnyD Says:

          Superficial? So dating someone you were not attracted to would do what, cure that? I simply don’t understand your logic. How much non-physical attrbutes does it take to make you fall in love with someone you are not attracted to. Sounds like prostitution not dating.

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        • jaclyn Says:

          This was exactly the point I was trying to make. I had no doubt that if I had sent more pictures to those men I would have passed their looks test, but I wasn’t interested in dating a man who was so interested in looks. Because even though I am attractive now, my looks are going to fade.

          But as to men who feel like C, they are welcome to put whatever preferences they want in their profile. I think they are more likely to be successful if they just quietly write only to the women whose pictures meet their desired level of attractiveness.

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      • P. Says:

        I don’t think you owe your biological imperative much of anything, certainly not as much as you owe your credibility and integrity. What you might consider ugly may be the very thing that turns someone else on, and there’s certainly sufficient documentation through art how societal standards of beauty are constantly evolving and vary throughout cultures. Body fat is a perfect example of that — until the last few decades (not enough time to affect evolution!) it meant you had sufficient money to eat an unlimited amount and not have to engage in physical labor, so was an indication of prosperity and social class.

        We’re all going to get older, and virtually all of us if we live long enough are going to decline in attractiveness during our lifetime. Most of us posting here already have peaked and are figuring out how to compensate for the decline. So, most of us are looking for someone who has a healthy perspective about that, and who will have the capacity to love us when we’re old, wrinkly, and in many cases heavier, because they don’t just see the outside, but all of the qualities that make for a good romantic partner.

        If you just want to satisfy your biological imperative by getting laid, either find the most attractive person who is willing to join you, or the least attractive person you’re willing to tolerate, and go at it. But building a healthy relationship requires that you have more in common than a mutual infatuation with each others’ attractiveness.

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  2. Howard Says:

    Diplomacy is always the name of the game. However you don’t want to come over as a pushover or needy. So we end up walking a fine line as we write these things. Everyone has their own comfort level in terms of the importance of expressing what they want.

    If it’s that important to you, use code words to get your point across. “I do my best to stay in shape” or “Maybe we could work out together” could signal the really fat women or men to not readily respond to your profile, without necessarily saying you are shallow. “I like classical music” or “I like led zepellin” or “I like country music” could maybe be your way of steering off the bruthas like me or sistahs, without you looking racist or narrow minded. But really, the truth of the matter is that you don’t have to respond to any message sent to you. That seems to have become standard protocol online. And that is probably one of the reasons I stay away from the online stuff, The other reason of course is that in the end it becomes too tedious because it’s become a numbers game. The more messages a guy sends, the more responses, he gets. And even though women say they want the well written message and not a cookie cutter, they really don’t have the time to read anything beyong three or four sentences.

    The reality of online dating is that women are getting too many responses. I would say the average woman is getting over 10 responses a day on some sites and over 15 responses on popular sites, especially if she is new to that site. Really attractive women generally can’t even go through all of their responses at some sites. So women end up missing out on the guy they are really looking for and guys can’t seem to get a response from the women they really like.

    But don’t let me deter anyone. If one has the time, online is still the best way to come into contact with lots of people.

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    • Howard Says:

      One small note however, people with too many demands do not get as many responses as they would like.

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    • Anna Says:

      Agree with the code words but would be wary of stereotyping, especially for the racial preference situation. Who says certain races don’t like Zepplin, country music or classical. I happen to be black and like all of these.

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  3. Dark Sarcasm Says:

    Man only wants to date slender women= shallow.
    Woman only wants to date men with full set of hair, and taller than 6 feet=preference

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    • UGH! Says:

      Ah the double standards! Let’s not forget the women who want to date guys who have money. This seems to be all too common in the greater NY area. I have 2 cars, nothing is better than a 10 year old beater to sort out the gold diggers.

      I too like to date slender women with an athletic body. Why? Well it turns me on. Should I actually develop a connection with the person it is important that I am attracted to her. Sure I realize people change & the girl I meet today may not be the same 5 years out. I am fine with that, that is where love comes in. Shallow is dating someone & when they put on 10 lbs a year later dropping them solely for that reason. While I have never had a g/f who later packed on the pounds, I did have a few who I was in love with & had they grown as time went on I would like to think I could deal, assuming all other aspects of the relationship were healthy.

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    • C Says:

      +100! It’s amazing how people are so logically inconsistent.. Smh.

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  4. offensivedan Says:

    Let me start off by saying we are a shallow, shit forbrains species that deserves no special favors from the alleged “creator.” Okay, let me now reply to this post:

    To begin with, I would not recommend anyone–even minorities–to try online dating. For guys, it’s fools gold. The girls on there get so many emails that they just forget about you even if they have responded. There’s just too many guys. The girls online can just sit back and pick. Fuck that.

    Okay, I’m a hispanic living in the dirty ol’ south. I have always dated white women–not because I am racist against my own race–but that’s what is in quantity down here and what I come into contact with. Also,I take pleasure in sticking it to the “white man.” Plus, the few hispanic women, who are down here, find me too americanized or just want to date a blonde, blue eyed American guy. Further, most Hispanic women are not in my profession or social group.

    Does this suck? Yes, because you don’t know if a white girl is rejecting you because of your race. it’s always in the back of my mind. Now, what about online dating? Well, the vast majority of women online are white. On match.com, it’s true women can choose which race they prefer. Some women will indicate white and hispanic. However, very little women do this. Well, I’m not going to pay such ans such amount to contact three (3) women. So, what I do is contact women even if they only indicate “white.” I mean, it’s just an email. If they don’t respond fine; I don’t get offended. Disappointed, yeah, but that’s normal. However, I have had replies exercising this method and have met these women. Only once did a meet up become uncomfortable when this POS told me I looked like a foreigner. She later revealed she had been married three (3) times and had three (3) kids.

    Another time, I emailed this white chick she was being racist for just choosing white. And, yes, I got to meet her and had fun with her.

    As for Kevin, I get contacted by “big girls” even though I am slender and work out. I mean, it should be common sense to them that I would not be interested. But, it’s just a part of online dating. People “shoot for the stars” hoping that by chance someone obviously out of their league will respond. We all do it and you will just have to deal with it.

    In summary, being contacted by people online that are not your preference is a fact of life–just don’t respond if you are not interested. That’s all you need to do.

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    • Eve Says:

      Hi Dan, that’s kinda funny to assume because YOU work out they should know you prefer slender women. Why? Woman I work with is shaped like a barrel and her partner is tall and very toned.

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    • Chester Says:

      ” Also,I take pleasure in sticking it to the “white man.” ”

      At least you are honest.

      This is one good reason why women should not be open to dating out of their race. As stated above, minorities are motivated to f*** white women out of their own racial hatred. Nice. This is something for white women to ponder when they are being sexually pursued by a minority.

      The irony of calling a white woman racist because they won’t have sex with you when you are the racist — wanting to have sex with them as an expression of your racial hate. Like the pot calling the kettle black.

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  5. offensivedan Says:

    To give an example:

    Actually, recently, on match I contacted this white girl-32 yrs old, English teacher never married and no kids. She was attractive, albeit, she was really white and needed a tan. Anyway, she is from this conservative area close to where I live, but I contacted her anyway. In my email, I told her I was hispanic and that if she did not date outside her race it was cool–I would not be offended. She responded back and said, while she was had not dated outside her race, she was not totally against it.

    Anyway, we emailed back quite a bit and she never gave me her number. She just stopped replying. I can only guess that she decided she did not want to date outside her race, was not interested for another reason or she found other guys she was interested in. A girl like her online is going to generate a lot of emails.

    It’s too bad because I would have liked to have met her. She came across like a cool girl and she appeared to be highly intelligent–which I liked. Plus, out of all the women on match, she was the only one who really read my profile and asked me questions about it.

    But, like I said, in my previous post, it only cost me an email.

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    • dimplz Says:

      For the record, I wouldn’t say you are dating outside of your race, unless you are a black Hispanic. You are speaking about ethnicity. I won’t get into how race is a socially constructed concept.

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    • UGH! Says:

      What you should have learned is this: Do not invest too much early on in an online date. Two or Three emails & move it to a meet & greet IRL, (in real life). I learned that, especially if you are a good writer, an emotional connection can be formed where they envision you into something you will never be IRL. While you were corresponding with her, some other guy was meeting her for drinks. She chose the bird in her hand because it really is worth 2 in the bush!

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  6. P. Says:

    You don’t, in most situations, say “thanks but no thanks.” Moxie’s right: it’s perfectly OK not to respond. For a while, I thought it was the polite thing to do to respond to everyone who crafted a letter that wasn’t a form letter, even if to say “I don’t think we’re a match, but good luck,” until I found that too many guys considered it an invitation to keep engaging me and to get me to reconsider.

    The worst was a guy who was 1) not in my geographic area; 2) not in my stated age range by close to a decade; and 3) had some prejudiced views that I found particularly offensive — an absolute dealbreaker. He jeered at me — twice — for supposedly letting the computer determine if we were a good match…and I replied with 1-3 above. Only then did he leave me alone, and after that, I stopped responding to the others — by that time, I had pretty much tapered off my use of the service anyway.

    I also don’t have or recommend too many qualifications in your profile. You do run the risk of offending not only the people who don’t meet your criteria, but those who do who are nonetheless offended by your qualifications. I really only have one — no polyamorous guys — but that’s after I had a run on them at the beginning of my time online, and felt I had to make that absolutely clear.

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  7. Howard Says:

    It’s interesting to see a man preferences for slender being used as the equivalent to a woman having race preferences. The equivalent to a man prefering slender, is a woman prefering a man be tall. But that is the hypocrisy of things. A woman demanding tall never gets perceived as being as being shallow. Look, the guy never said “no fatties” that was the moderator’s interpretation. He said petite and slender. The guy may be 5 ft 4 in and weigh 120 lbs, so he may have very good reason for asking for petite and slender.

    The type of response from the moderator shows the typical bias against men on this board. And more importantly comparing race to something such as petite and slender leaves me with the feeling, that the moderator has no idea what racial discrimination is all about.

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    • P. Says:

      >>It’s interesting to see a man preferences for slender being used as the equivalent to a woman having race preferences.

      They’re both preferences which are based upon external appearance, not personality or compatibility. Of course race isn’t comparable to weight: race discrimination is illegal in a number of contexts (employment, housing, etc.) while weight discrimination is not, making it one of the last acceptable widespread prejudices.

      >>A woman demanding tall never gets perceived as being as being shallow.

      Of course she does. It has happened a number of times, right here at this blog. In fact, not too long ago there was an OP who got excoriated for her refusal to budge on this point.

      >>the guy never said “no fatties” that was the moderator’s interpretation.

      The OP talked about “messages from women who were chubby to obese” as “unwanted,” so I hardly think that interpretation was a stretch. He wasn’t complaining about women taller than him contacting him, despite his preference for “petite.” And it is possible for a guy to go out with a woman who weighs more than he does…I was nearly 40 before I dated someone that I actually weighed less than, and of the guys most interested in me after one date (during a recent round of online dating), I would say around 75-80% weigh more than me (and that is with me currently weighing 40 pounds less than my all-time high.) The guy most into me physically was about 5’8″ and 120 soaking wet, but was from Africa and grew up surrounded by what he considered curvy women which would be considered obese by North American standards. I also actually find the bigger the guy is, the more he wants a petite little thing for social proof…I remember in college when all the football players weighing 300+ had tiny girlfriends and thinking, “who are the bigger gals supposed to date?”

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      • Howard Says:

        I generally try to avoid these back and forths, but your poor comparison requires a response. The comparison of race to weight is ridiculous. People are stuck with the race they are born with, unless you are Michael Jackson of course. For most of us, we have a choice in the weight we wish to be. Sure some people have slower metabolisms and some people have medical issues, but the vast majority of people who are overweight, eat too much and lack sufficient exercise.

        As you pointed out, racial dicrimination is illegal and not so for weight. That should have been the light bulb going off in your head. Our judicial branch actually functions with logic!

        Let me tell you this right now. In the past, I have dated very overweight women and my equipment did not function as well when I had sex. One lady I really liked and we tried everthing to change that, but the only thing that worked was a prescription medication like viagra. Since then, I have been with women who are not overweight and had no problem in that department.

        The other big problem is health of course. When one starts being more than 30 lbs than they should be, they are playing russian roulette. They are saddling their partner and loved ones with their being tired easily, getting sick more often, running a far higher risk of being disabled, and them dying earlier. Being very over weight is committing slow suicide and then trying to blame it on God!

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Further comments on this sub-topic that come from either of you will be moderated.

          Others are free to weigh in on this sub-topic.

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          • Anna Says:

            I totally disagree that weight preference and race preferences are the same. Weight is more closely related to external appearance whereas race may be somewhat related to external appearance but also is related to people’s perceptions/stereotypes of a certain race, which may or may not be somewhat racist. I don’t doubt that some people may have an actual preference about race and not be racist but I would be wary of lumping it in as just another preference without further consideration.

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            • blythe Says:

              What if U are a white women preferring to date black men, are U a racist and if yes towards who, white men or all men not black?

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              • Anna Says:

                Like I said above, a racial preference doesn’t necessarily mean you’re racist. It would only be problematic if your basis for only dating black men is based in some potentially damaging stereotype. For example, thinking that all black men have big dicks and are better in bed and white men (or other races) can’t possibly have the same sexual prowess. Obviously damaging to both black and white men.

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                • offensivedan Says:

                  Okay, lets be honest with one another . Nah, you are racist complete with a KKK white hood b/c you refuse to or even consider dating outside of your race. Look, in my experience, the reason people don’t date outside of their race is b/c they feel the other race is inferior in looks etc. or are worried what their social group would say. Now, if you say, I would not date this black or hispanic guy because he is ugly and you have dated or considered dating a black or hispanic guy then that’s not racist. However, if you won’t date a race without ever considering or trying then that is racist. Calling it a preference won’t change that fact.

                  Also, I find mostly women are the ones who refuse to date outside of their race. Guys will do it more. I see white guys with chinese, spanish and balkc girls. It could be that guys will do anyting with a vagina. But, then, in my experience, women tend to be more racist.

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                  • Dimplz Says:

                    How many women do you know who are racist?

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                    • offensivedan Says:

                      Let me think–umm, half the southeast region of the U.S. The city I live in? Probably 80%. To these women, anyone darker than Casper the Ghost is a foreigner or mexican who came over illegally, for example. Oh yeah, they also think that everyone who is of Hispanic descent must be Mexican and a janitor, White women are predominantly racist here. They all think they are Southern Belles pre-civil war and the non-whites are the jungle trash coming to take their virtue.

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                    • Dimplz Says:

                      You’re talking about a very small population. I’m sure it seems like a lot because it’s happening to you, but up north is not that way at all. I’m a Puerto Rican woman so I’m not talking out of my ass. If all women are like that by you, move. Who wants to date, marry and raise kids in such an environment?

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        • Saj Says:

          - They are saddling their partner and loved ones with their being tired easily, getting sick more often, running a far higher risk of being disabled, and them dying earlier. Being very over weight is committing slow suicide and then trying to blame it on God! -

          Have to disagree with this one. It’s not to say that being overweight doesn’t have more health issues but that health issue concerns are not why people discriminate. I don’t know anyone who has had more health problems then me during the past year and I’m currently very underweight which isn’t helping at all. Funny though how many guys would put up with this and not going out to do outdoorsy fit activities (because sometimes I’ll be too dizzy and nauseous to take part) when their equipment responds just fine in the bedroom.

          I call the same BS on people who discriminate against smokers because of health concerns. No it’s because smokers smell bad, have bad breath and have to take constant breaks to smoke or they get irritable. Your entire house starts to reek of cigarettes as it saturates everything and that can drive non smokers batty. Drinking often doesn’t come with the bad smells so you see less no drinker clauses.

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    • Saj Says:

      Race could very easily be a physical preference. I always liked guys with dirty blonde hair and they would pique my attention more then someone of another race who may technically be more good looking. Sure you could compare that to height because someone has as much control over their height as they do if a specific woman is attracted to them enough. Sure it’s all shallow and superficial but we go for what we are attracted to despite it being PC enough for the rest of society to deal with.

      However in a profile the no fatties preference is always always off putting no matter how clever the guy tries to code it. This tends to annoy all women of all body types. You could easily just click their profile and see she’s not for you and not think more about it but to try and overtly dictate who messages you is just a bad idea. Like another poster said you should email your type yourself rather then expect them to fill up your inbox which they won’t.

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      • offensivedan Says:

        Saj,–be honest– you have a racist view. You try to paint it as a preference but it’s a bunch of bullshit. You are a white girl that would not date a minority because you think they are all unattractive and inferior to your nordic tastes. The thought of dating outside your race worries you and your standing in your social group.

        I, mean, have you ever dated or been intimate with a minority?

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        • Chester Says:

          So now any woman who has not had sex with a guy from every race is a racist. That is just wrong and judgemental. It also sounds like a cheap ploy to guilt a woman into having sex with you. There are huge cultural differences between people of different countires and races. Relationships are difficult enough. When a difference in culture occurs, there are different expectations not only between the two indivituals, but if either wants something more permanent like marriage, there are the family issues as well.

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        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “You are a white girl” AFAIK, Saj is black.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

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        • Saj Says:

          No because I find white guys (and to be super specific) blonde white guys super duper attractive to me. (come have a seat over here Daniel Craig) I can objectively say though that guys from other races are attractive and could be seen as “more” attractive to the general public then my specific tastes. (Come have a seat Antonio Banderas)

          One of my first crushes in junior high was to a black kid. The best man at my wedding was a 6’3 Mexican who wanted me to go out with him for years as we were good friends but he was horribly overweight, full of drama, and a compulsive liar. He ended up marrying a cute white girl and are now divorcing because (he is full of drama, horribly overweight, and a compulsive liar). But this guy is smart enough to know his women troubles are not due to his race but because of his personality and he seems exclusively interested in white girls (because he is most attracted to nerdy white girls) and doesn’t seem to struggle too hard in getting them.

          My husband dated a majority of Asian girls because he likes the slim brunette look (and they were the majority where he lived) he also does not like blonde women despite being blonde himself (does that mean he’s racist against his own kind? or is it preference?)

          It’s all preference to me. There are so many girls out there who like olive skin and dark skinned that it shouldn’t matter that I’m not one of them. Heck if I were born black, latina, itallian I’d still be super attracted to white guys. I like what I like, got what I wanted so who cares. I just think you are going to blame your race for your failures when it’s most likely a slew of other reasons that you won’t address because it’s easier to blame it on something you can’t fix. Trust me if your normal, pleasant and generally attractive women of any race will date you (not EVERY women but enough so you don’t care about the ones who don’t)

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    • UGH! Says:

      Who really cares? I mean if I were to review your profile & choose to move on my loss. I do not date black women. Why? Well I am attracted to features that white women seem to have the market cornered on. I am into tall & thin. I suspect a trip to the Netherlands would be too much & I would stroke out. I am also attracted to smart women who can carry a conversation, debate an issue looking at it from multiple points of view. Add to this list polite, can take care of herself, yet is able to recognize that we can’t do everything & all can benefit from having another person in our life.

      Lastly I don’t care how good she may look. If she is high maintenance, a one way street-er, or does things that are boorish behaviors….Well as some have learned the hard way, your looks will only take you so far.

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      • dimplz Says:

        “I am also attracted to smart women who can carry a conversation, debate an issue looking at it from multiple points of view. Add to this list polite, can take care of herself, yet is able to recognize that we can’t do everything & all can benefit from having another person in our life.”

        I think you were better off when you weren’t lumping black women into a category. You like white women because you think they are more attractive. End of story. When you try to justify it, you just sound like an idiot. Don’t justify your preferences, they don’t have to make sense to the rest of us.

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    • WO7 Says:

      I disagree. You can’t control how tall you are, but you can control your weight. A person’s height says nothing about a person other than their genetics. A person’s weight speaks to many other factors about them other than genetics alone.

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  8. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I agree with Moxie. The profile is supposed to make you as attractive to as many people as possible. Say what you need to say to accomiplish that. You do the weeding out after they contact you. You don’t need to respond to anyone – only respond to someone who meets your criteria. The rest get ignored.

    Never put anything negative or overtly superficial in your profile. Requesting physical attributes (or stating that you will reject someone because of such physical or superficial attributes) reveals your superficiality – even if true, if you use superficial criteria to find a mate, you will most likely end up with a superficial relationship.

    It’s very painful to receive emails from people who you think are overweight, or the wrong race or otherwise below your league. It’s just a fact of life that people are delusional and aim for the stars. Most likely, you do it too.

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    • Craig Says:

      It’s very painful to receive emails from people who you think are overweight, or the wrong race or otherwise below your league. It’s just a fact of life that people are delusional and aim for the stars

      Are you serious? Really? Please explain how it’s painful. This ought to be good. Do you have some sort of phyiscal disability that makes clicking the delete button painful? I suspect it’s only egos that are hurting in these matters. Maybe it’s not the writers of the emails who are delusional, but rather the recipient. After all, water tends to seek its own level.

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      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        It’s painful in the sense that you get embarrassed for people who lack self-awareness, who write you messages that are totally socially inappropriate or awkward, or who don’t appear to have an accurate perception of themselves.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

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        • Craig Says:

          In that case, me thinks you take these things too seriously. I certainly never felt embarrassed for anyone who wrote to me. No matter how far outside my parameters they were or what they wrote, my reaction was always the same: I felt flattered.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

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      • Steve Says:

        Well very painful is a bit extreme. But it would be disappointing to receive emails from only (being the key word) people who you consider below your league. But everyone is going to receive mostly emails from who they consider people as below their league, since people will tend to email people at their level or up. For example if we rank people from 1 to 10 (which is of course way overly simplistic since people have different tastes, etc), 5′s will get emails mostly from 1s to 5 or 6s, 8s from 1-8 or 9s, etc. Only a fraction received will be from that persons perceived league. And this will be even more the case for guys, who are less in number on these sites.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Um, yeah, and speaking of “diatribe” Craig?

        Obviously, I was being hyperbolic as is my way. However, as I’ve said previously, some people are literally wrenched out of their delusional worlds by online dating and I am sympathetic to someone learning the hard way that they are not as desirable as they thought they were. Yes, it is egos but it is actual pain, which is why people react so badly when it happens. I have compassion for people in pain.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

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        • Craig Says:

          Diatribes on one’s opinion is what this site is for. This is their proper place. I certainly didn’t include them in my online dating profiles. Forgive me for not recgnizing your hyperbole. Such things are not always easily indentified in writing. My point remains unchanged however. Who cares if people are being unrealistic in writing to someone else? Simply delete and move on. I got my fair share of women writing to me who where not what I was interested in. I simply deleted the message without replying and without further thought. I fail to see how that was painful for either party. In one instance I did give one of the women who were outside my stated paramaters a chance – and we ended up dating quite awhile.

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  9. Single in NC Says:

    I like that I find myself in a pool of similar experiences with others. It is a bit daunting to receive emails from men who clearly didn’t read my profile, otherwise they would have known that they wouldn’t fit my criteria. Not that I post that info but putting 2+2 together they could have easily figured it out! Dating online is all about tending to the weeds. Once in awhile you get a sincere person but for the most part it does seem more like a dating game rather than a matchmaking outcome. I used to respond as well and occasionally I guess I still do depending on the sincerity of the emailer. No one want to be perceived as mean or rude. However I tend to agree with the no reply method as well, It does what it should, detracts the ones you aren’t interested in from reiterating their desire to meet. Delete and block are your best friends! Use them when necessary and otherwise just try to enjoy the experience best you can until finding a potential. Good luck to everyone, and thank you Moxie for posting! In the past I wondered about the same things.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

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  10. joe-f Says:

    Hello to those who are lucky enough to get responses. You have a problem of trying to find a way to only get responses from qualified people. I was on Match, eHarmony and POF. I would get a response once every month. The responses that you don’t want; I would love to have them.

    You can just ignore the ones that you don’t want. I want you to know that there are people out there who wish they would get a response.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

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    • offensivedan Says:

      Joe:

      You have it all wrong.

      Most guys on online sites are in your boat. Online dating is very tough and not what the commercials say. I have yet to meet anyone who has gotten married or has gotten into a long term relationship because of it.

      And as I have stated before, it really is a bad investment for the average or even above-average guy. See above where I wrote about emailing an educated, intelligent, cute, 32 year old single, childless woman. She’s exactly what I’m looking for. Problem is, so is every other guy on that same site. I can bet you she is getting pummeled with emails. Try making yourself standout on match.com with all the guys on there.

      Who are the true winners on online sites? Women. They just sit back and wait for their email box to fill up and then they pick and choose what guys to go out with and spend their money.

      I’m not telling you not to do online dating. I have gotten ass and laid off of match.com. But, I can tell you from experience you have better odds trying to pick up women at a funeral.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 13

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      • joe-f Says:

        Offensive Dan, I think we have different beliefs and neither of us are right or wrong. You believe women have an advantage and they are the winners because they have a lot of guys to choose from. If that is true, then why are there so many women still single after going online?

        I believe women and men are inherently good. Woman are choosing not to answer my messages because I don’t fit what they want. That is ok because there is a lid for every cup.

        i took Moxie’s advice that online should only take 10% of my time in finding someone. When I am online, I always read the women’s profile and wrote a short personal message. I wasn’t looking to get laid but to legitimately find someone. I have dated a few girls from online in long term relationships and there was definitely one who i could have married. I also know friends who married someone they met online so no, I don’t think I have a better chance at a funeral.

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        • Dark Sarcasm Says:

          Why are women still single after going online?
          Because a) they’re never satisfied. No matter the amount of responses, or quality of responses, they always feel they can do better, and the mountains of emails they receive daily confirms that for their egos.
          B) they’re not online to ‘date’ they’re on there for an ego boost….or to find men to take them out to dinner…wasn’t there an article here with a woman from NY that did just that…use men from Match.com to fund her dinner dates?
          C) they did use online dating to find someone, but got so overwhelmed with responses, or got frustrated with the whole procedure, they gave up, but left their profile up. That cutie you’re emailing on match.com probably hasn’t logged on in months. And you’ll never know.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 6

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          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            “That cutie you’re emailing on match.com probably hasn’t logged on in months. And you’ll never know.” Especially since many dating sites have been shown to periodically update the “last login” times even when people don’t log in, to make it appear there are more women than there really are. And others have been shown to put up entirely fake profiles for the same reason. Yet another reason many men send form letters until they see a profile actually has a real woman behind it that responds.

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      • D Says:

        FWIW I got married from Match.com, and I know several people who have found marriage and/or long term relationships there. That said, I met my wife-to-be back in 2002, so things may have changed since then.

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        • LaLa Says:

          I think match is still a good website. My friend met an amazing and nice guy who she is now married to last year. I know a few other people who have met people on there as well.

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        • offensivedan Says:

          D, I just don’t see it. Match to me is full of bitchy women, timewasters or crazies. Even through an email, I can tell a woman is being a bitch for no reason other than I contacted her. Who wants to deal with that online shit. And if there is a normal, attractive girl on there, you can bet she is being crushed by emails. I would like to sit down with someone who has been successful on this site because I don’t believe it. nIt could be the area I live in, too.

          Or maybe I’m just an ugly bastard with a cantakerous personality. Anyway, I have gotten ass off of match but it’s not what I’m looking for. It seems to me match is used by women to just go out on dates and for a free meal.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

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  11. Christina Says:

    I’ve always kind of wondered about the people who complain about this. I just assumed it was part of the online dating game to get about 80 percent of my messages from people who had clearly never read my profile. Not that I had many (or any) demands in there, but I definitely tried to skew it to bookish nerds, like me.

    What’s the big deal in getting messages from “undesirables?” If you really can’t step outside of a shallow mindset ever, it’s so easy to delete and block- there’s not even any awkward personal confrontation. If you’re more open-minded, you might end up meeting someone who’s not your type. And since a great many single people endlessly date their “type” with negative results, going outside that might not be such a bad thing.

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  12. Craig Says:

    Most dating sites have multiple choice options where you can list the ethnic groups and body types you prefer. Just check those and leave it at that. Putting a diatribe about it in your testimonial is so not attractive. No matter what you do, people who are not what you are looking for are going to reach out to you. It’s par for the course with online dating. Just delete those emails and move on. There’s no need to get all worked up about it. It’s almost as if some people who receive messages from those they deem undesirable are insulted that anyone not their type would dare contact them. Grow up.

    I have not problem with stated preferences. But I do take issue with absolute close-mindedness. There was once this half black, half white woman on Craigslist who stated she refused to date anything but white men. Being the same mix myself I wrote to her to ask her the reasons for her preference out of curiousity (I included a photo). She responded with a whole bunch of negative stereotypes as her reasoning. Needless to say, we ended up meeting and having a whirlwind romance that lasted for quite a while. The moral of this story is that people reach out to others who state another type like that because it doesn’t hurt to try. You just might be the one to change their mind and influence them to try something new. I was out of my Chinese wife’s comfort zone, but her taking a chance on me turned out pretty well for us. Sometimes the universe has different plans for you than you have for yourself. That’s why it pays to have an open mind. Because you never know.

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    • Anna Says:

      Totally totally agree!

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    • LaLa Says:

      Agreed! It’s hard for me to understand people who will only date one race or type of person. I’m a white girl and have dated white, spanish, black and would be open to any other culture/ethnicity if I was single. I think the OP is truly limiting herself and especially at 37, you shouldn’t be. I understand we are all attracted to what we are attracted to, but a lot of times being rigid with the type of person you date can keep you single. If I hadn’t given my black boyfriend a chance (the first black guy I dated), I would have never had never gotten to know such a great man. There are gorgeous men of every nationality.

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      • LaLa Says:

        *They’re

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      • offensivedan Says:

        All I’m saying is to be at least open to dating or being friends with people of other races. You never know what you will learn. I know too many people who limit themselves to their own race.

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      • Howard Says:

        To Lala: “If I hadn’t given my black boyfriend a chance ”

        I always find that type of comment codescending, and you can take the word black out, and it is still codescending. It expresses a paradigm of men being beggars for attention, and women being in some ivory tower.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7

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        • LaLa Says:

          I didn’t mean it at all like that. I was referring to how some women don’t give men of other races a chance.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

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          • Howard Says:

            Yes, but you are giving yourself a chance too. Why it’s never said that way is what drew my attention. And Lala I do apreciate your comments. I am definitely not being antagonistic to you.

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  13. Selena Says:

    Apparently when one talks about what they want -it’s a preference. When talking about why someone might not want them…it’s because they are a _____ist.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

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    • P. Says:

      And don’t forget, when talking about what someone else wants that you don’t understand or want yourself, it’s a fetish.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

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    • offensivedan Says:

      That’s because you fail to see the distinction. Whites have that problem when it comes to race–they simply can not see racism for what it is. I guess being the majority and in power for awhile breeds this type of attitude.

      Saying that you are not attracted to someone based on their nose or personality is one thing. Saying that you won’t date a whole race w/o even dating a member of it is racist. You can call it preference or whatever b/s you want to call it to make yourself feel good or to justify your narrow and closeted views. but, it still is racist.

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      • Dimplz Says:

        You are confusing prejudice with racism. Racism is a system of oppression. I hardly think you’re oppressed because white women don’t find you attractive or relationship worthy. Prejudice is basing ones opinions on stereotypes and generalizations, kind of how you speak against women. You have preconceived notions based on the lack of diversity around you. So do many people who are prejudiced. How about just giving women a chance who find you attractive and stop focusing your energy and those who don’t? Youre coming off as angry and bitter all the time and it’s pathetic.

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        • offensivedan Says:

          Are you kidding me? Your comment is laughable. It leads me to believe you must have gone to public school as your attempt at defining racism clearly reflects. Here let me help you out. Have you ever heard of a d-i-c-t-i-o-n-a-r-y?

          Racism:

          1) a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

          2) racial prejudice or discrimination.

          It’s not too late to get your GED, Dimplz.

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          • Dimplz Says:

            First of all, you’ve just exemplified why most women won’t give you the time of day- you’re a classist pig. Is public school supposed to be an insult? Sweetie, read some Bell Hooks or Cornel West. Your ignorance is embarrassing.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

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      • Selena Says:

        What do you know about my ethnicity, my choices in loves, my family Dan? Without knowing anything about those things…how can you make a statement about how *I* fail to see the distinction?

        These are your issues Dan. Examine them.

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  14. VJ Says:

    Basically agreeing with what Craig said @ 12.20 above. But because it’s not been done in so very long, we present the following:

    The Criteria and Preferences Everyone wonders about, but never asks about or mentions in a profile:

    1.) Are you still as crazy as your last/other BF/GF claims?

    2.) Are you on parole yet?

    3.) Finally, (no Really, no fooling now!) Divorced? OK, at least really Legally & Physically Separated?

    4.) Following on from #3, are you willing to use a condom Each & Every Time?

    5.) Do you have an adequate (BIG) dick for my tastes?

    6.) Are you depraved enough, (but not too much!) for my peculiar tastes in bed & out?

    7.) Do you have a decent job that’s not only interesting, but prestigious and lucrative as well?

    8.) Are you just here to pick up another free dinner?

    9.) Any other Communicable Diseases besides the STI ones you semi-almost disclosed to others?

    10.) Will you worship me as did my previous paramours/SO’s?

    11.) Have you settled on a sexual preference yet? You know besides ‘YES!’ & ‘All of the Above?’

    12.) Have you finally moved out of your mom’s basement/family’s guest bedroom?

    13.) Still gainfully employed Full Time?

    14.) Do you have kids Anywhere? Not just ‘in the vicinity’, but with any prior relationships? Think hard now.

    15.) What explains your rep ‘in the neighborhood’/on line/on FB/ on bathroom walls etc?

    16.) Ever seriously physically harmed anyone you claimed to love?

    17.) Why does my dog/cat/bird run & hide when your around?

    18.) Ever been convicted of any crime other than a minor traffic violation? When & under what circumstances?

    19.) Do you even like sex? How often and when & where precisely? And Recently? In this decade?

    20.) How can I trust you, a rank stranger?

    That about covers it. All the things you’d want to know, yet can’t quite ask in a simple profile, Absent All the Body Types too! Cheers, ‘VJ’

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

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  15. Crotch Rocket Says:

    “people could avoid the constant rejection if they would only adjust their expectations” Or, where applicable, if they put in the effort to meet others’ expectations. For instance, someone who is consistently rejected because they’re overweight is arguably better served by getting their fat ass to a gym than lowering their expectations to chubby-chasers. (And either option is definitely better than denying the problem and continuing to chase those who don’t seriously consider them.) Obviously, if it’s a matter of ethnicity, that can’t be changed–though many people are really using that as a proxy for other factors that can be changed.

    “not following those rules so often leads to chaos and confusion.” Chaos and confusion? No, it’s simply rejection.

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  16. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    For instance, someone who is consistently rejected because they’re overweight is arguably better served by getting their fat ass to a gym than lowering their expectations to chubby-chasers.

    They also need to stop deluding themselves in to believing that they’re more evolved than everyone else because they managed to find someone who isn’t shallow. I can assure you that if you’re a bitch or crazy or seriously overweight or whatever, that person is with you because they are either attracted to such things (like chubby chasers or submissives) or they have no other options.

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  17. Howard Says:

    To the moderator. Why are you moderating me? I post a few comments from time to time. I see Offensivedan and Crotch Rocket ranting at will, but I suppose that is the image of men you like to perpetuate on this board, rather than reason logic.

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  18. Ronnie Libra Says:

    Too many people are online dating. Here’s a novel idea, get out of your house and away from your computer and go MEET the people you like.

    Give us 10 more years and we’ll be having online DATES and soon we’ll be this creepy race of World or Warcraft player types, who sit at home and never actually experience the company of real people.

    I know, it’s easy to sit at home. I get it. But here’s what’s starting to happen. A pervasive lack of empathy and absence of emotional intelligence is starting to become so common among Americans that it’s almost the new normal (see http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-me-care).

    Dating is becoming a lost art.

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    • Ronnie Libra Says:

      …There are theories, however. Konrath cites the increase in social isolation, which has coincided with the drop in empathy. In the past 30 years Americans have become more likely to live alone and less likely to join groups—ranging from PTAs to political parties to casual sports teams. Several studies hint that this type of isolation can take a toll on people’s attitudes toward others. Steve Duck of the University of Iowa has found that socially isolated, as compared with integrated, individuals evaluate others less generously after interacting with them, and Kenneth J. Rotenberg of Keele University in England has shown that lonely people are more likely to take advantage of others’ trust to cheat them in laboratory games… http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-me-care

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    • Steve Says:

      I agree and the human race did fine in finding mates for centuries before the digital age the last 10-15 years. Plus the genders are more balanced outside online dating. However myself at least I am finally meeting prospects here in New York and at least I always have a few potentials I am working on, where before it was week after week of absolutely nothing. I guess the answer is that most people meet others through friends and social networks, while I moved here at a relatively late age knowing nobody.

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