Do You Date Outside Your Means?

Name: Sylviaonlinedating2
State: NJ
Age: 36
Comment: I’m a 36 yr old divorced mother of three. I’m very dedicated to my kids and career but want to start dating someone more on my level. I’m extremely independent but would like to find that special someone to cuddle up to every now and then. Unfortunately I only attract younger men who seem to be the only ones that share the same likes as I do. So yes I still like going to concerts and hanging out with friends on my “me” time. I don’t do it frequently as time is a rare commodity in my situation. But it seems like I don’t have the slightest idea of the type of environment i should be in where I can meet someone who is also a single parent with no desire of having anymore kids. Am I living in la-la land because I expect fate to just take it’s course?

 

I think you’re living in la la land in terms of what you want and who you attract.

I’m extremely independent but would like to find that special someone to cuddle up to every now and then.

Reading this, it doesn’t sound like you’re looking for a relationship. To me, it reads like you’re looking for someone to occasionally spend time with and who will pay you attention. Which is fine and not all that hard to find. It doesn’t sound like you’re having trouble with finding that type of person. But if you’re looking for genuine affection and caring, then these younger guys need to be avoided. They’re not going to understand your time constraints and priorities. Nor will they make the effort to adapt to your lifestyle, as it’s highly unlikely their investment is anything beyond casual.

I also don’t think that you “only” seem to attract younger men. I think that’s a way to shrug off your participation in that. You are attracted to younger men. You’re the one still drawn to that environment, which is why you choose to put yourself in it.

It sounds like you’re just looking for a port in the storm. You desire someone who will be there for you when you want some affection and attention and support. Again, that’s fine. But what do you offer? You’re so focused on finding a guy that will meet your needs, but you don’t seem to be contemplating what it is that man you seek is looking for or needs.  You admitted that you don’t have much time. So what is it that you will be able to provide? If you don’t have time, then how can you cultivate a relationship that involves support and nurturing? You want a man who is also a single parent. But only because you believe he will better understand you and your schedule and priorities. What about his? If you don’t have much free time, doesn’t it stand to reason that he might not have much free time as well? Or are you assuming that, because he’s a single father, that his kids probably don’t live with him and therefore he has more free time, enough to devote to you? You’re thinking solely in terms of your wants and your needs.

You’re trying to date outside your means. You only have X to offer, but you want XYZ in return.

In order to get what you want, you need to be able to give the same thing. This is a major stumbling block for many single women. We talk about what we’re looking for and what type of guy we like. Very rarely do you hear us list all the things we bring to the table. And when we do, they’re usually things that mean nothing to a man.   Men don’t really care where you went to school, what sort of title you have at work, or whether you pay or rent. They aren’t impressed with you’re ability to debate, how many stamps on your passport you have or, dare I say, how super awesome you are in bed. (Note: Men just want women to like sex and be good at it. ETA: Bragging about or even being being great in the sack will never compensate for lacking the major components that make a woman a great partner – femininity, vulnerability, nurturing & support.)

These are the types of things many women cultivate thinking it makes them a catch to a man. These are the areas on which many women choose to focus. They become so impressed with themselves that they believe men should be impressed with them, too. Only they aren’t. That’s because many of these women have stopped tending to the characteristics and qualities that men look for when they’re seeking a mate. Namely their nurturing and supportive sides. Many women are so busy keeping score as to how much he does for her and one upping and competing with each other and with men that they lose their ability to consider anybody but themselves. Everything becomes a contest and about being right.  This, among other reasons,  is why more and more men are foregoing commitment. There’s little return on investment for them.

We all need to think about this in reverse. Before we consider what we want, we have to be able to identify what we offer. If, OP,  all you want is a man who will come when you say so, and will sit when you say so, you can find that. Anybody can. There are plenty of men out there who would be happy to be that guy for you. I mean, you probably won’t respect him or anything. But he’s out there. Do you really want to be that woman? The one with the boyfriend she can trot out when she needs attention or to prove something to outsiders? Don’t kid yourself. People will see right through that and consider you A Sad. We see those women on Facebook and Twitter all the time talking about their boyfriends, and we also see their female friends (most of them single) jumping in to swoon and congratulate her. Wake up ladies. That “friend” is rubbing your face in the fact that you don’t have no manz. It’s the Prom Queen and Her Court dynamic. Only we’re not in high school anymore.

My suggestion to you, OP, is to really think about what you can offer a man and bring to a relationship before you seek one.

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38 Responses to “Do You Date Outside Your Means?”

  1. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    test

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  2. Testing new feature Says:

    test

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  3. joe-f Says:

    I almost agree with everything that Moxie said. I am 34, close to your age and committed to my career also. I want someone dedicated to me and who I can dedicate to. Given you are dedicated to your three kids and career, do I really want to be number 3 or number 5 since each one of your kids have different needs? If I was 25, I could probably deal with #3 since I wouldn’t be looking for anything serious. At 34, I am looking for a serious relationship.

    Maybe my friends and I are in the minority but we do care if you are awesome in bed. Bad sex is one of the biggest gripes when we get together. Liking sex is a good start but if you are awesome, that would seal the deal for me.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    • Howard Says:

      I would love to see a profile that started this way or some version of this:

      I am looking to make a man(or woman) very happy. I will be there for you and be your rock. I will be that that exciting ride or die woman (or man) that brings that adrenaline rush to your veins. I will be totally loyal to you and hold you and comfort you in your times of need and more..

      And guess what; that’s what we’re all looking for. Maybe instead of bragging, demanding what we want, laying ultimatums and non-negotiables and ego tripping, this is where people should go. We really don’t even need to say what we want. Reciprocity is understood.

      And this independent thing has to end right now. If you are so independent then you don’t need anyone. It’s like telling someone, you don’t need any help from anyone, and then asking them for a favor. There are certain thing people should never say. Trust me your audience is always offended. Here is a list of things we should avoid saying, in a profile or actually to someone.

      List:
      I am an independent woman.
      I am a hard driving successful man. ( or some version of that)
      I get lots of attention from guys. (or girls)
      I am powerful or wealthy or smart. (or some version of that, influencial, know wealthy people etc)
      I am a catch.
      My kids come first.
      My carreer is priority.
      I have very little free time. (Maybe say, I have been too busy but…….)

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 3

      • M Says:

        Thank you! You said what we guys are all thinking. I especially agree with what you said about girls who describe themselves as independent.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  4. VD Joe Says:

    Baby, I can be as old as you need me to be. Call me!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  5. Kegs Says:

    I agree with everything you wrote here Moxie. And the key words really are from the first sentence you pulled out ‘I’m extremely independent but would like to find that special someone to cuddle up to every now and then.’

    First, the ‘extremely independent’ piece – this approach is just not good going into a relationship, certainly not something you would want to declare. The choice of words of stressing the ‘extremely’ comes across like you will just not be that open to letting someone into your life and your heart.

    And the last words, ‘every now and then’. That really doesn’t inspire confidence that the OP is looking for a relationship at all.

    That one sentence includes a lot of revealing words!

    And there are PLENTY of men in their mid to late thirties who still enjoy going to concerts and going out. Just admit you like younger men because you don’t want to feel your age!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1

  6. Jeff Says:

    Great article. I think you’ve nailed quite a few things that a lot of women often don’t think about – they worry about their own wants and needs but don’t think about what they bring to the table. Men have to think about what they bring to the table always, because women judge us more on our ability to provide, having a good job or money.

    One thing I have an issue with though and something I have written about on my own before is this “They aren’t impressed with…. how super awesome you are in bed. (Note: Men just want women to like sex. That’s enough.)

    I disagree. Yes of course we want women to like sex. But to assume that a woman doesn’t need to be good in bed is one of my issues with a lot of women I’ve dated. Men have to “perform” in bed and are put under a lot of pressure. If we don’t perform or aren’t “good in bed”, it’s likely the woman will move on. But it drives me absolutely NUTS when a woman doesn’t at least make an attempt to be good in bed. Most of the women I’ve been with were horrible in bed and it made me not even want to have sex with them. I’d rather take care of myself than have sex with those types of women and those relationships didn’t last long at all. I’m not talking about just getting oral every once in a while, I’m talking about actual participation. Use your hands a lot, move your hips, grab our butt and hey, we like some foreplay too.

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  7. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Yes of course we want women to like sex. But to assume that a woman doesn’t need to be good in bed is one of my issues with a lot of women I’ve dated.

    When I wrote that, I was more referring to women who think that being great in bed is enough or will compensate for the negative traits. I was also referring to women choose to brag about their sexual abilities/empowered nature and what a great lover they are. Usually they’re trying to compensate for their emotional unavailability.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  8. Craig Says:

    Very rarely do you hear us list all the things we bring to the table. And when we do, they’re usually things that mean nothing to a man. Men don’t really care where you went to school, what sort of title you have at work, or whether you pay or rent.

    This is very true. Women have a habit of listing what they want, but not what they offer in return. When they do bother to list what they bring to the table, it’s usually only things that women care about. We really don’t give a flying fuck about how much you earn, that you have an ivy league degree, or had to have extra pages added to your passport. What we want to know is whether a woman is attractive to us, whether she’s going to be a pain in the ass, and whether she’s available and fun to be with.

    They aren’t impressed with … how super awesome you are in bed. (Note: Men just want women to like sex. That’s enough.)

    Now this is incorrect. Just wanting to have sex with us is enough for a one-nighter perhaps. But for a long-term thing, it does matter to us whether a woman is good in bed. A woman that just lays there night after night (no matter how willingly) is not likely going to result in a sustained happy sex life for a guy. With all the options and access to porn men have these days, it’s not enough for women to just be there in bed – they have to be good at it too.

    The OP is not dating outside her means. If you consistently get what you’ve been going after (in her case, younger guys), then you are within your means. Rather, she’s dating inconsistently with what she states she wants. If what she wants is a guy her age who enjoys similar activities but also has kids, she should start getting involved in her kid’s activities. That’s a good way to meet some single dads with kids. Plenty of single guys with kids will enjoy the same activities as her – but like her, they’ll have limited time to do it compared to the younger childless guys she’s been frequenting. She’s got to accept the reality she’s not going to have it all – a guy her age with children who has the time, money, and energy to entertain her the way a younger childless guy can.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1

    • Selena Says:

      Sylvia would like to meet another single parent around her own age who understands the time limitations she has: “But it seems like I don’t have the slightest idea of the type of environment i should be in where I can meet someone who is also a single parent with no desire of having anymore kids. ”

      Craig provided a very good suggestion: “If what she wants is a guy her age who enjoys similar activities but also has kids, she should start getting involved in her kid’s activities. That’s a good way to meet some single dads with kids. Plenty of single guys with kids will enjoy the same activities as her – but like her, they’ll have limited time to do it compared to the younger childless guys she’s been frequenting.”

      My related suggestion is making a point of getting to know the parents your kids are friends with, other parents in your neighborhood. Some of them will be single parents also – who know other single parents, both male and female. You just might find you meet more age appropriate, single dad’s through creating a network with those who have children and know people or / are themselves in a similiar stage in life.

      I don’t doubt there are single dad’s out there who could have written this same post. Nor should you Sylvia.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

      • just_me Says:

        There are lots of groups for single parents (“parents without partners”, meetup groups, etc, I’ll bet there are even dating sites or organizations geared for them as well). The OP needs to do a Google search to find them in her area.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  9. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “They aren’t impressed with … how super awesome you are in bed. (Note: Men just want women to like sex. That’s enough.)”

    I actually agree with this, mainly because being “good in bed” for a woman is largely defined by her enthusiasm. All the complaints about her “just lying there” are proving the point. Just lying there is lack of enthusiasm and that’s what turns men off. I can’t think of a single woman who was enthusiastic about sex that I would consider bad in bed. Effort is everything. I thought that’s what Moxie meant in this context – it’s no great accomplishment for a woman to be “great in bed” – even the clumsiest woman can do it.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

  10. BruceWayne Says:

    What are the best ways women can be (or learn to be) more feminine, supportive, and nurturing? It’s hard to come up with specifics, now that I think about it….but maybe that’s just me.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      They can find girl friends who are supportive, feminine and nurturing. A lot (but not all) of female friendships are based on competition. I honestly feel that that is a huge contributing factor to why so many women are competitive with men. Women need to associate with other women who support them, not ones who try to tear them down, one up them or compete with them.

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    • Chester Says:

      Here are a few ideas to get you atarted:
      1. Make him dinner (this is key)
      2. Wear feminine clothes more often.
      3. Get your nails done; makeup, hair, etc.
      4. Don’t be a loud mouth or life of the party.
      5. Give him a back rub/massage
      6. Give him great oral sex.
      7. Buy him a thoughtful gift
      8. Initiate a hug, touch, etc
      9. Work on your feminine figure (this is also key)
      10. Flirt with him
      11. Smile more often
      12. Be genuinely giving to him
      13. Write hime a love letter
      14. Don’t be pushy or bossy

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      • Selena Says:

        This is list of what would attract you to a woman Chester.

        In the spirit of “what do you bring to the table”, what would your own list of qualities/ things you do/ don’t do look like that would appeal to a woman?

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        • Chester Says:

          Thant’s not what she asked! She asked for ideas to be more feminine, nurturing and supportive. I gave great ideas and I think most guys would agree. Some women are just selfish and have this knee-jerk reaction to anything that would suggest a woman please her man. And they stay single.

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      • BruceWayne Says:

        These suggestions don’t seem bad at face value, but they just seem like a list of things to do to please a man.

        Of the fourteen you listed almost half involve giving or producing something for the man. And more than half involve giving / producing or improving one’s appearance for the benefit of the man. Women (and men!) should be happy to give their partners things. But I guess what I was really asking is how can a woman put herself in a more feminine mindset.

        How can she adjust, or even learn for the first time, how to think and behave in a more feminine way? American culture is so competitive and masculine that it’s almost a miracle there are any intelligent, passionate women who have a great grasp of their femininity.

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        • Chester Says:

          Exactly! You wanted ideas to be feminine, supportive, nurturing….because you feel these are components of being a good partner. By definition, any component of being a great partner will please/benefit her man. Are you looking for a way to be a good catch that would not please him? Thing about that. I always thought a great relationship is where each is trying to give and please each other. Am I missing something?
          A more feminine state of mind isn’t going to get a guy…he can’t read your mind. If you do the things above, it will put you in a more feminine state of mind.
          Several women who have no difficulty catching and keeping a man for long-term relationship each told me their secret and it was the same. Cook a meal for a guy around the third or fourth date. Some women just dont want to give to a man, especially in NYC.

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          • BruceWayne Says:

            “Are you looking for a way to be a good catch that would not please him? Thing [sic] about that.”

            Of course not. That doesn’t even make sense.
            Your list may well be more feminine, but it sounds a little Stepford-y. Get really hot, cook him dinner and blow him, that’ll be more feminine! Oh, how convenient!

            My reasoning is that once a woman is in a feminine mindset, everything she does will be more feminine, and it will be easier to think of more womanly behavior. A woman who doesn’t even know how to be truly comfortable with her femininity who sets out to do the things on your list might be uncomfortable or even resentful. Women can act feminine without feeling feminine, but shouldn’t we want all women to embrace femininity?

            The women who “just don’t want to give to a man” are certainly the minority and shouldn’t be used to justify your list.

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  11. Purgatory Saj Says:

    Instead of blowjob classes or match making classes I would love to see some form of intimacy developing classes for those who struggle to get past the superficial.

    You have people sit down and instead of sizing each other up for a partner they try to bond and develop some sort of connection. They practice at making each other feel at ease, talking about something personal while the other person doesn’t judge them for it and vice versa. Try to find that soft center that most everyone has and find the beauty of it. If you can start to see beauty in people you don’t want to date then it’s easier to ease it out of someone whom you do and they will take you far more serious then someone who just talks about where they want hiking or their jobs and other on the surface yet meaningless topics.

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    • The Private Man Says:

      “If you can start to see beauty in people you don’t want to date then it’s easier to ease it out of someone whom you do and they will take you far more serious then someone who just talks about where they want hiking or their jobs and other on the surface yet meaningless topics.”

      And that is EXACTLY what I recommend women to do:

      http://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/a-dating-exercise-for-women/

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

      • fuzzilla Says:

        Why do you aim this advice solely at women? Don’t you think “look for the good in women” is good advice for men?

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          If all you can say to this is, “But what about the men???/” then you do nothing but prove his (and my) point. Everything is a competition. How exhausting. I can’t imagine any man wanting to deal with that.

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          • fuzzilla Says:

            Right, but the article in his blog he linked to was addressed specifically to women. Purgatory Saj said everyone could benefit from improving communication skills and deepening their compassion; Private Man implied that only women need to do this. Why?

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              Why does it matter? He left a link to an article that he believes would be helpful to women. That’s really all you need to know. He doesn’t have to explain himself to you. Read it. Don’t read it. It doesn’t require a discussion.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 8

        • fuzzilla Says:

          …because if you don’t think the same advice applies to men, you’re, as the article says, “dating beyond your means” by asking for something you can’t/won’t provide in return.

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  12. Cricri Says:

    Isn’t it that the OP mentioned her independence so that Men don’t assume that she is looking for someone to take care of her and her kids? What if “from time to time” actually meant “please don’t think that I’m needy!?
    Ithat woman is looking IMO for someone exactly in the same situation as her, a single dad who would like to get together when their busy schedules allow it. Otherwise, childless single men will think she’s not a great match for them. Which is fine, but no need to attack her as closed off or whatever because she is not what they’re looking for. The funny thing is I remember on this blog comments and critics about how wrong it is for women to demand too much attention from men with children; the consensus was that they should deal with it without the guy being the bad guy. Why in this case, is the woman suspected with being selfish? Double standard much? People have to read it for what it is: she’s asking little because she can deliver little at the moment and is looking in the same position; aside from those young men being the wrong crowd, I think she is actually dating within her means regarding her expectations. I’d say she has more chances of meeting interesting single dads than regular single men at this moment of her life.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I’m extremely independent but would like to find that special someone to cuddle up to every now and then.

      So yes I still like going to concerts and hanging out with friends on my “me” time.

      I don’t do it frequently as time is a rare commodity in my situation.

      Her whole letter is contradictory. She’s “extremely” independent.” She also likes her “me time” where she goes out with her friends. Her “me” time, which is rare enough, but she also wants a “special someone” she can cuddle up with from time to time. Which it sound s like she could have with any of the younger guys she attracts. So there really shouldn’t be any problem, as it doesn’t sound like she wants anything too serious. In which case, why is it important to find a single parent if she doesn’t need or want much? Why does that man have to understand her lifestyle if all she’s looking for is someone to “snuggle up with?” She doesn’t appear to be able to offer much, so she needn’t be so stringent on whether or not the man is a single parent and “gets” her. But she is.

      Here’s what I heard:

      “I want to meet a younger man who is willing to be available when I feel like having company, as my life is far too busy for anything serious. He needs to be on my level because it’s important he *gets* me because I’m so super complex and unique.”

      What does “on my level” even mean?

      The whole letter is me, me, me. She wants to meet a man on *her* level. She’s dedicated to *her*career. She’s *extremely independent.* She likes her “me” time. To a man, that reads as self-involved and self-important. Key word being “self.”

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      • Cricri Says:

        I think you are over analyzing it. Even after reading that comment what she seems to be saying is “I want someone like me!” which is what most people look for truthfully. Her “me” time is her time WITHOUT her kids; where she can be just a woman not a mother, where she can engage in stuff SHE likes, not her kids’. Seems pretty simple to me. She has to be sort of selfish with her time if she wants to find a new mate and not let child rearing duties smother her. Someone in her situation would actually understand her better; Men have no patience with other men’s kids, so I don’t think single men would be a good choice, even for some light dating.

        I actually read that letter and thought, here is a woman who’s divorced with kids and is aware of the challenges that this represents in the dating scene; so she’s trying to present herself as the least demanding on order to appear more attractive as in ” I won’t bother you, I have a life, I won’t take much space”; being divorced can create some insecurities where you think you can start thinking you “lost of your value” on the dating scene, which makes you lower your standards, hence those young men looking for the inconsequential ; Clearly, this is not what she wants. I think she should get rid of that chip on her shoulder and go after what she truly wants. Because if you ask for little, you get little and sometimes nothing.

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        • Howard Says:

          There is a word called guarded. If people get the sense that the other person or even themselves cannot become vulnerable enough in the relationship, then there is going to be some hesitation going forward.

          In the pursuit of being awesome and amazing, we all seem to have forgotten to portray that desired quality when we meet potential lifetime partners. Of course there is the extreme where a person appears too vulnerable and we shy away from that too. So it’s a question of striking the right balance.

          My experience with too many women is that they are too guarded in the early and after sex, way too vulnerable, or worse yet, stiil too gaurded and self-focused. As I said, balance is everything!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “Isn’t it that the OP mentioned her independence so that Men don’t assume that she is looking for someone to take care of her and her kids?” If so, then this is a good lesson in how what you say isn’t necessarily what people hear. I assume all adults to be financially self-sufficient until demonstrated otherwise; therefore when a woman feels the need to describe herself as “independent”, I hear “I don’t need you” in the emotional sense rather than the financial one.

      “What if ‘from time to time’ actually meant ‘please don’t think that I’m needy!?'” See above. I assume all adults to have their own lives until demonstrated otherwise; therefore when a woman feels the need to say she wants a man “from time to time”, I hear “I don’t have much time for anyone else”.

      “Ithat woman is looking IMO for someone exactly in the same situation as her, a single dad who would like to get together when their busy schedules allow it. Otherwise, childless single men will think she’s not a great match for them.” Most childless single men will immediately “next” her as soon as they read she has kids, and most of the rest will bail when they find out she doesn’t want any more, so there’s little need to further address that demographic. Single dads know what her situation is, so they don’t need more info either. That leaves players and married men who will use her limited free time against her–and the less she gives them, the better.

      “I remember on this blog comments and critics about how wrong it is for women to demand too much attention from men with children; the consensus was that they should deal with it without the guy being the bad guy. Why in this case, is the woman suspected with being selfish? Double standard much?” The OP’s issue is not that she’s busy because she has kids; it’s the way she chose to express it. I can only imagine the outrage here if a guy used the same words; the real double standard is how forgiving we’re being because she’s a woman and therefore presumably just clueless rather than malicious.

      “People have to read it for what it is: she’s asking little because she can deliver little at the moment and is looking in the same position;” If that’s what she means, that’s all she needs to say.

      “I’d say she has more chances of meeting interesting single dads than regular single men at this moment of her life.” Meeting? No. Getting into a genuine, healthy relationship? Definitely.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  13. Roxy Says:

    I’d like to know what happened in the original poster’s marriage that lead to divorce. Unless she is going to therapy to actively try to change herself for the better, I’m guessing she is making similar mistakes in the dating scene that she made prior to marriage.

    Also, I almost agree with everything Moxie says. I’d just change the wording on this sentence: “In order to get what you want, you need to be able to give the same thing.”

    I’d say, In order to get what you want, you need to be WILLING TO TRY to give the same thing. Putting effort into a relationship is what makes it work…. and worthwhile.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  14. VJ Says:

    Some very vital universal truths here:

    “You’re trying to date outside your means. You only have X to offer, but you want XYZ in return.
    In order to get what you want, you need to be able to give the same thing. This is a major stumbling block for many single women. We talk about what we’re looking for and what type of guy we like. Very rarely do you hear us list all the things we bring to the table. And when we do, they’re usually things that mean nothing to a man. Men don’t really care where you went to school, what sort of title you have at work, or whether you pay or rent. They aren’t impressed with you’re ability to debate, how many stamps on your passport you have or, dare I say, how super awesome you are in bed. (Note: Men just want women to like sex and be good at it. ETA: Bragging about or even being being great in the sack will never compensate for lacking the major components that make a woman a great partner – femininity, vulnerability, nurturing & support.)”.

    Much of that critical sex component here in LTRs is just a willingness to try. To try something a bit different. Or slightly more often. Or just done differently (usually being open to more ‘quickies’ & short play) vs the whole full on romantic ‘dress rehearsal’ sex. Being willing to work with a partner to make certain their needs are met or at least trying to do so more regularly. And seemingly, that’s difficult to maintain in any relationship of almost any duration. It’s an up & down thing, and something that’s constantly in flux, due to the vicissitudes of life mainly. It can be a constant struggle, along with everything else, and if not enough of the other essential elements are present? Just not worth the bother for the ROI for many guys, as Moxie noted.

    More from above “These are the types of things many women cultivate thinking it makes them a catch to a man. These are the areas on which many women choose to focus. They become so impressed with themselves that they believe men should be impressed with them, too. Only they aren’t. That’s because many of these women have stopped tending to the characteristics and qualities that men look for when they’re seeking a mate. Namely their nurturing and supportive sides. Many women are so busy keeping score as to how much he does for her and one upping and competing with each other and with men that they lose their ability to consider anybody but themselves. Everything becomes a contest and about being right. This, among other reasons, is why more and more men are foregoing commitment. There’s little return on investment for them.”

    Another dimension of this is the thinking that if it impresses her GFs it necessarily Must impress her guy! And that’s just not the case, or rarely is. At least not for her straight or romantically interested potential BFs.

    And this type of thinking can and very well might go on for some years, until she finally actually ‘stumbles’ upon a guy who basically overlooks all this BS/nonsense/baggage/poor logic & delusional thinking and despite it all comes to love her for some of her other qualities that might have little to do with the ‘standard attraction’ matrix of traits or expectations. For some this is the ‘maternal instinct’ that seems to be missing from many younger gals. Or that combined with being a great and knowledgeable cook and a nurturing soul. Plenty of ‘missing stuff’ might be accommodated in a mate given some serious over compensation in some other areas. Seldom is this the sex side in many women I suspect. For the guys? I’ve known several serious cads and worthless deadbeats (and often philandering ones too) who were being literally kept or ‘cultivated/tolerated’ precisely due to their bedroom skills and/or wonderfully sizable, ever ready dicks.

    But lots of gradually accumulated wisdom here. Cheers, ‘VJ’

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  15. MrWombat Says:

    “I’m very dedicated to my kids and career”

    Which? Straight away we get the idea that this is someone who is not being honest with herself.

    “I’m extremely independent but would like to find that special someone to cuddle up to every now and then.”

    Again, being honest with herself might help here. Get on any matchmaking website, and post a pic and “36yo single mom w/ career seeks FB/dating in X area. No ONS.” If she can just be a tiny, tiny bit realistic with her wish list – problem solved. The key is recognising that a FB is what she is looking for.

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