How Do You Know If It’s a Real Relationship?

Name: chuckrock
State: new york
Age: 35
Comment: Hi Moxie,

After a brief hiatus, I started reading the blog again and it has prompted me to send in a question for your review and dissection. One of the reasons I had stopped reading a few months ago was because it was clear to me the difference of opinion that I have on the whole dating process than both you and many of the regular responders. This is the reason, now, that I think it worthwhile to discuss this issue though.

I’ve been dating my current girlfriend just over 8 months now. Things are going well enough on most people’s standards, I would think. In no particular order: we spent the holidays with each other and each other’s family, my family and friends love her, we spend most weekends together and sometimes see each other during the week, she does a lot of “little” very thoughtful things for me, we have gone a couple short vacations together, and (at least from my point of view) I actually miss her when we aren’t together.

So, as we come closer to the year mark, I suppose we will start getting closer to actually looking towards long term commitment. We’re not too young (35 & 31) and I know  that I do not want to wait as long as I did with my ex prior to moving to the next stage (whether that be living together/getting engaged etc.) She is currently looking to buy a house on her own. She lives with her parents (has for past couple of years) and will likely put a bid in on a house in the next couple of weeks. I rent an apartment which I will likely have to leave by the end of the summer.

She asks me questions about my opinions about the houses she looks at, but I am hesitant to answer them usually. I don’t want to give the impression that I am assuming I will be living there eventually also. But I would imagine  due to our situations, that if she buys something and we do decide to live together the thing that makes sense would be for me to move into her place.

So I’ve been walking a thin line with giving input to her search. How do I go about being supportive in her decision, helping her figure out what is best for her without looking like I have a vested interest in the result? Obviously I want her to buy something that she’ll be happy with whether or not i remain in the picture, but I can’t help but think that I will be.

Also, if she was still at her parents house when i moved out of my current place, i’d likely inquire about living together upon my move. (considering the timing, etc.)  If she is buying a house, I feel the asking to move in probably falls on her to initiate; how long do i wait after she buys the house to bring up living together or do I just totally wait for it to come from her? For the record, i very much need to live with someone prior to engagement – and she already knows this about me.

thanks much.
State: new york

 

Before I get in to my feedback, I replied to Chuckrock and asked him how often he and his girlfriend see each other and when they began to sleeping together. He said:

Well, almost every weekend we spend sat. afternoon through sunday night together. Sometimes (maybe once a month) we start hanging out on friday night (it depends on the pans for that particular weekend). Also, maybe every third week, we see each other one evening during the week for a movie or dinner or something like that. We are having sex. It took longer to get there than i would have liked, but did eventually get there and now we do almost anytime she stays over my place.We slept together around the 4 month mark but it didn’t become a regular thing until about the 5 month mark. I believe she put herself on birth control during this time and was more willing to once she was.

I’m going to maintain my original stance from way back when you first started talking about this woman. This relationship is pretty much non-existent. (ETA: To clarify, this doesn’t feel like a mature or adult relationship.)

I don’t put much stock in meeting family or taking trips together. It doesn’t mean much to me. As I’ve said, these are milestones that many people put  a lot of stock in that ultimately mean nothing if there’s no genuine commitment behind them.

It’s been 8 months. You two see each other pretty much once a week save for the occasional week night sleep over or Friday sleep over. On top of that, it took her 4 months to have sex with you. Plus you’re not even having sex regularly when you do get together.  How does any of this really help you determine true compatibility? You barely spend any time together.

We’ve spoken about the men who will “commit” to a woman and say he’s their boyfriend and do all the things that men in committed relationships are believed to do. Like invite women on trips and meet family. They do all of this knowing the relationship is temporary and will end. But it works for now and it’s better than being alone. The attention and companionship is nice, but not something they would fight for. As long as things stay low maintenance they’ll stick around. Spending 3 days with her family is a small price to pay for 3 months of simplicity.

I’m thinking that’s what your situation is, Chuck. To be honest, I don’t know how you could possibly be thinking about taking this further when many of the signs point to this being  a dead end relationship or one of convenience for her. You haven’t even had a trial run at living together, nor do you have much consistent time together at all. That’s your next step. Not co-habitating.

To me, this feels like a situation where a woman wants a boyfriend, not a relationship. She wants someone to bring to holiday parties and meet her friends and who affords her the opportunity to say, “My boyfriend and I are going away for the weekend.”

Since she began her search for her home, has she at all discussed the possibility of you living there with her?  If she hasn’t, why not? Is she waiting for you to broach the topic? If so, my suggestion is to bring it up. You appear to be the one thinking long term. She doesn’t. She seems to be functioning independently of you and of the relationship. That can’t be a good sign.

Throughout this relationship you’ve been letting her drag you around by your balls. Is that what you want?

 

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141 Responses to “How Do You Know If It’s a Real Relationship?”

  1. Saj Says:

    Hey if you want to live with her (which it seems like you do) bring it up. If you wait for her to make the move it may take longer (as she like you may be scared of appearing pushy)

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2

    • Howard Says:

      Hey chuckrock, the conversations here remind me of a deal going bad. It all starts with one tangent, maybe a negative comment, and it all spirals out of control. So now everyone is suddenly an expert on what a relationship should look like and what should happen and at what time.

      You ask for some advice on walking a thin line; now you have everyone coming at you about everthing. I’ll tell you what to do. Ignore us all who don’t answer that specific question, after all, we are not really answering what you asked about, just putting our own little spin on things.

      Most times, this love, relationship, family, kids thing doesn’t make any sense when you think about it rationally. You’re about to remove yourself from availability to every other women when the testosterone in your body tells you different. You are about to merge finances. You have to report your whereabouts at all or most times. If you have kids, it will cost you over $250,000 each; I have one that spent 6 years in college and probably exceeded that. Luckily the other one is about to finish in four.

      So this love thing is crazy. The only reason we do it, is because we don’t over rationalize things. Every relationship is different. Everyone’s life is different. Everyone’s expectations are different. What struck me is the fact that you spent so much time together on the weekend. THAT MEANS SOMETHING TO BOTH PARTIES! I can’t see my daughters doing that with any guy who is just a show pony. I don’t believe you are just a show pony. You however have to work on saying what’s on your mind.

      On walking that fine line, we really can’t give you specifics, because every relationship is different. I assume that is why everone is going on the tangent they are on. Just be honest with youself as you proceed. You may be successful in conning or fooling someone else, but don’t do that to yourself. You will lead yourself astray.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 5

  2. chuckrock Says:

    Thanks for reminding me why i stopped reading in the first place. I ask questions about living together and you think we don’t have a real relationship? seriously?

    To all other commentors, please take it at face value that we have a fairly serious relationship that in all respects looks like it is leading towards marriage.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 46 Thumb down 6

    • Selena Says:

      Chuck,
      If you think this relationship looks like it is leading towards marriage – why do you feel so reluctant to talk to her about the housing issue? Especially since you seem to feel strongly about living together for a period of time before marriage? This is what feels like a red flag to me – the hesitation to communicate what each of your hopes/plans are for the future.

      I’m kind of surprised she is moving ahead with buying a house on her own, if she sees the two of you as being/becoming life partners. I understand where Moxie is coming from with the suggestion this woman may like saying she has a boyfriend, rather than actually making a full out commitment to you.

      On this blog we can all speculate based on our own experiences and biases, but you really need to talk honestly TO HER Chuck. The sooner the better.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 0

      • chuckrock Says:

        Selena,

        It is not that i can’t talk to her about this. It is that I don’t want to. I want her to make this decision on her own, without me being a swaying factor. The fact is that I can not afford to buy a home on Long Island, I can only afford to rent. I’m not going to ask her about moving into a home that she buys, even before she buys it and make it into “we are buying a home together.” It’s going to be her money that makes the purchase, and i don’t want to give the impression that i want to take advantage of her bc she has more money than me – because that is far from what i am doing.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

        • Selena Says:

          The thing about buying a house as an investment, is that it is an investment that comes with beaucoup ongoing extraneous expenses. It’s just putting money down and making monthly payments to build equity – there are property taxes, insurance, possible city and county assessments or levies, continuous maintenance and repairs, possible replacement of big ticket items (new water heater, new frig, new flooring, new roof), and upgrades and re-modeling as you go along.

          As a sole owner, she would be responsible for all these cash outlays and eventually recoup some of the expense when she sells. Hopefully. If you are living in her investment with her, would she expect you to contribute to some of these expenses? If you do, do you get any share of equity when she sells? Or if your relationship dissolves? Or are you just SOL, with the money you put in? This is the big picture Chuck. If you are thinking possible marriage, you need to think of where you fit it in with her “dream investment” – and so does she. It’s not about taking advantage of her, it’s about not taking advantage of each other and avoiding potential conflicts of the “this is MY home, not your’s” variety.

          And you are much better off working this out before she signs a binding contract. If she knows marriage is a possiblity in the foreseeable future, she may decide to wait . As Dimplz pointed out, a couple years isn’t going to make a difference.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

          • Selena Says:

            Should read “It’s NOT just putting money down and making monthly payments to build equity …”

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            “Hopefully. If you are living in her investment with her, would she expect you to contribute to some of these expenses? If you do, do you get any share of equity when she sells? Or if your relationship dissolves? Or are you just SOL, with the money you put in?” If his name isn’t on the deed and mortgage, he should have no expectation of building equity. If they do decide to get married later, they need to discuss whether they’ll be moving, re-titling the existing property, etc. For lesser investments, eg. cars, this isn’t a big deal, but you don’t want to get into a situation where you discover during divorce proceedings in ten or twenty years that she gets to walk away with all the equity you put into the place.

            Unless you are buying the house as equal partners, IMHO the correct way to do it is for him to lease one of the spare bedrooms and pay rent, just as he would if he signed a new lease on an apartment. (I’m not a lawyer, and I suggest you consult one before moving in–preferably before she even buys the house if possible.)

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

            • Selena Says:

              Yes, if she goes ahead with buying a house, and he insists upon living together prior to an engagement, he could make an arrangement where he contributes through a combination of rent/sweat equity (where he does the mainenance/repairs) and she is responisble for covering all the expenses related to the house.

              If they did decide to marry they could then draw up a legal contract whereby they split the equity in the house should the marriage dissolve – subtracting her initial downpayment from his share. This assumes they would BOTH be sharing in the costs of owning the home throughout their relationship.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

            • chuckrock Says:

              This would be my expectation, although obviously I would need to be sure it was hers also. I am an attorney, so I’m familiar with the legalities here.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • Scorpio Says:

          I think Moxie is actually right about you two.  
          You’re asking us questions that should be a conversation that any 2 people dating for 8 months should be able to have. -even if it’s not in the cards, you should be talking about it, not asking us if you should tip-toe around things.  
          She seems emotionally distant… And the whole “4 months to have sex” thing is a minor red flag to me. But then she hogs up your whole weekend and you STILL can’t discuss things on an emotional level?
          …c’mon, bro… That isn’t a healthy relationship from either of you.
          Communication is a foundation of any healthy relationship, like it or not.
          You two aren’t even talking about the things that concern you.
          Red flag.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 5

        • Erin Says:

          Chuck, you sound like a very thoughtful, considerate guy in the sense you cannot afford to buy on Long Island you don’t want to feel like you are influencing her decision. The fact is in most relationships one of the partners tends to have greater financial ability than the other. Today this can be the woman as often as it can be the man. Neither one is better or worse than the other, just different. Everyone brings different strengths and weaknesses to a relationship. I completely understand your concern in bringing up living together, however, I think it is a risk (if you want to call it that) that you need to speak up and see what she is thinking. I also know that due to individual circumstances what might not seem a serious relationship to one person may be a very serious, intimate relationship to someone else. I think we all need to take everyone at their word and if Chuck says it is a serious relationship believe him and respond accordingly.

          It almost seems as if both of you are walking on egg shells not sure what the other person is thinking. I think UNIVERSALLY we all tend to be speculators about life and relationships. We would all do better for ourselves if we just spoke up and asked questions we needed answers to without fear of the answer. A lawyer friend of mine once told me that lawyers try to never ask questions they do not already know the answer to. I think it is worth the risk to ask the difficult questions. We might not always get the answers we were hoping for but I would rather know exactly where I stood with someone than the endless questioning inside your head.

          Just a guess or speculation on my part, I think your girlfriend is probably waiting for you to bring up living together because she sounds like someone who has very traditional values (waited before jumping into bed) and feels that the suggestion or idea of living together should come from you. I honestly think the worst thing that could happen from you broaching the subject is that she might not be interested in living together. I think it would be the best thing for you to know exactly where she stands on the issue as that gives you the chance, before you get anymore invested in the relationship, if she sees this as having a longterm future with you.

          Good Luck and wishing for the best for you.l

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “It is not that i can’t talk to her about this. It is that I don’t want to” Part of being an adult is doing things we don’t want to do. You need to talk to her about this, whether you want to or not. The rest of what you say is just you justifying an irrational, emotional decision after the fact.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0

        • Kay Says:

          Women usually let men lead the relationship into the next step. Why don’t you want to talk to her about it. Ask her where she sees the relationship going. If you envision living together and marriage, best to address those issues now.

          I bought a home, by myself, 2 years into a 4 year relationship. His lease was running out and although I knew I wouldn’t marry the guy, we had a good thing going and wanted to keep it as such, I asked him about living together; it just made sense at the time. He went house hunting with me and I asked his opinion on things. But, it was my money and ultimately, my decision. We shared most of the expenses but broke up 2 years later. He moved out and when I sold, I didn’t share the equity, after all, I’d put it down; I didn’t really make a profit.

          If this man were someone I knew I’d married, I would have gone at it differently. We wouldn’t have had ‘the talk,’ we would have made decisions together (location and prices) and so forth. But I didn’t see a future with him and therefore, bought on my own.

          You may be thinking long-term but she may not be. What type of questions is she asking you about the places you’ve seen? Is she saying me, mine, we or us?

          TALK TO HER, BRING IT UP!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

          • Kay Says:

            Should be, ‘we would have had ‘the talk”

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

            • chuckrock Says:

              Why would you waste so much time with someone who you knew you would never marry? That doesn’t make sense to me. I am at the stage in life where I am not going to be exclusive with someone unless the path is still leading towards marriage – and once it starts diverging from that path – i’d end it.

              I am sure (because we have talked about it) that she feels the same way. Therefore, I know that if things continue the way they have been going we will eventually get there. we just aren’t there yet – after 8 months.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

        • JS Says:

          Chuck, why dont you just say all this to her…I mean ALL of it…lay it out like it truly is….for example, say this: “Sweetie, I really want to talk to you about us living together but I’ve been feeling reluctant b/c you’re buying this house and I dont want to derail that by asking you to hit the pause button on the purchase and move in with me. And I dont want you to feel like I am trying to move into your new house and ride your coat-tails. If you werent buying a house right now, I’d feel no hesitation to suggest that we live together. But because you are buying a house, I am unsure about how to have this conversation with you. What do you think about all this, honey?’ And then be quiet and see what she has to say. Win or lose, you’ll know where you both stand.

          So there it is….the truth: honest, vulnerable, endearing….just be yourself and tell her exactly how you feel… Feel free to use the above script, i wont even charge you for royalties, lol

          (one small note…I do think that you should try to see each other 1-2 during the week too …I dont see it as the huge red flag that Moxie does b/c I konw that there can be a lot of factors, work, commutes, etc but I think you should at least try for dinner or drinks or something 1-2 nights during the work week. Of course spending the night 1-2 times a week is better but I realize that cant always happen so at least shoot for dinner or going to the gym together, anything really.)

          seriously, you sound like one of the few good guys….so good-luck with it all

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

          • chuckrock Says:

            Thank you for your kind words and your advice. Over the last couple of days, as this discussion has been going on here I have also been talking to her more about the situation.

            This is very good advice.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  3. Poppy Says:

    Like you said, to me this has the feeling of “better than been alone” rather than anything that is full on

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  4. Dimplz Says:

    To you it may seem like a given, but I didn’t see the word “love” mentioned once.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

    • mrcrassic Says:

      “love” can be a throwaway word. I wouldn’t put so much weight behind it…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

      • dimplz Says:

        True, but I thought since he talks about this leading to marriage, his description of his relationship would sound less clinical. I just don’t know how he expects all the readers to know how serious it is when it’s not really being described as such, just more like, “we spend XYZ together and do XYZ, therefore we are committed to each other.”

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

        • chuckrock Says:

          this is just my personality coming through. I am a logical person and trust logic above all else. I don’t think I would even be considering these issues if “love” wasn’t already in the equation.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “I thought since he talks about this leading to marriage, his description of his relationship would sound less clinical.” Fair, but that’s just a guy thing. He is laying out the facts of his dilemma and we are expected to either ignore emotions or, if unavoidably relevant, deduce them from the facts.

          And, really, if he can’t have an open discussion about his feelings with her(addressed separately), you shouldn’t expect him to be able to with a bunch of relative strangers.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  5. novelty718 Says:

    So let me see if I understand…because OP and his girlfriend don’t spend every free waking moment together and having sex they aren’t in a real relationship. WTF!!!! Yet if they spend every free waking moment together they would be labeled needy and insecure.

    Seems no matter what you are doomed to end.

    I have to agree it is responses like the one Moxie and from readers that have me coming here less and less.

    OP, I think you should broach the subject of living together if this is what you want. Don’t curb communication because of what negativity you might hear. If she doesn’t want to move in so what…it doesn’t have to be a deal breaker and don’t let it be.

    As for meeting family and friends, and spending weekends together…these things ARE important to people. Not everyone brings everyone they are dating around friends and family until they feel forced to. When people do it freely and without question it usually means they want to share a part of their life with the person they are dating. Not everyone is a user looking for a stand-in or a filler. Some people are happy and want to share that happiness.

    As for the time spent together, I’m dating a guy and we see each other maybe once or twice during the week and every other weekend. While I want this man in my life and he wants me in his we each have things that we are doing other than trying to build a relationship. I have no problem with the amount of time we spend together. I think our relationship is moving at a good pace and I believe it is a real relationship despite what anyone else might think.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 2

    • dimplz Says:

      I don’t think it’s a matter of all or nothing, but I think once you start dating more than 6 months, you can usually see a couple spending more time together. Regardless of people’s busy schedules, you make the time, because that’s what commitment is about. I guess an appropriate analogy for relationships is how people predict a baby’s growth: at 3 months they roll over, 5 months they sit up, then 7-10 months crawling and 10-12 standing/walking. Now of course, there are the babies that fall behind in walking (yours truly) but for the most part, babies tend to develop at this rate. Most relationships tend to take those steps too. If they don’t, they are the exception and not the rule. I think you don’t see anything unusual with Chuck’s situation because yours is similar. To those who have different expectations and in most relationships, they’d be spending about as much time as the OP with the CEO situation. That is the behavior of a relationship edging towards an annual mark.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Yes, I’m so negative to suggest that maybe – just maybe – his next course of action shouldn’t be moving in with this woman, but to spend consistent time with her on a regular basis. You’re so right. I should advocate that he plow ahead with his plan to share a home with someone he sees a whopping 6 times a month.

      Wake up. She’s planning her life and not bothering to incorporate him in to other than when it can benefit her. She hasn’t even as much as hinted at wanting them to move together in the same direction. The only time she makes an effort to spend more than one night with him is when she needs a wedding date, or a buffer for her holiday get togethers with family. Oh…or when they go on vacation.

      As for the time spent together, I’m dating a guy and we see each other maybe once or twice during the week and every other weekend.

      And that explains why you’re getting so defensive.

      So sorry to shatter your illusions, but if you’ve been dating someone for a number of months and they can barely manage to see you more than twice a week, that’s all they want. If you’re okay with that, then fine. But if you’re like Chuck, who wants to live with this woman, then you’re in rough shape.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 29

      • chuckrock Says:

        This is you jumping to conclusions. We are both busy professionals. We live a half hour apart and she works an hour away (further from me) from her home. When else are we to see each other? I would say spending a significant amount of our free time together is pretty consistent every week makes it a regular basis. You conveniently left out that we chat every day.

        She been saving to buy a house for the past few years. She even moved back to her parents to help save money in order to do so. She shouldn’t discontinue her plans because she is dating me for 8 months. That would be ridiculous. She decide to look closer to home than to work because it also meant closer to me (one of her reasons, by no means am i suggesting it is her only reason)

        I didn’t right in to you because i had questions about the relationship – because i don’t. I know we have something pretty special. I think you project your own inadequacies on having a long term relationship on other people’s relationship and try and tear them down simply because you can’t conceive of people actually being happy and finding someone. You should really stick to the questions that are asked and not over shadow the actual issue with your nonsense.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 39 Thumb down 6

      • novelty718 Says:

        We see each other once or twice during the week because he has his kids two nights a week and every other weekend. He lives about a 45 minute drive away. We do talk every day.

        I don’t know many couples/people dating that see each other every day of the week and the weekends too. It is usually because they live busy lives and want more time together that they think about moving in.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 2

      • D Says:

        That’s not the question he asked. He’s wondering whether and how to express that he sees a long term future with her. The fact that she’s looking for houses might accelerate that conversation.

        And you didn’t suggest that “maybe, just maybe” anything. You said the relationship is “pretty much non-existent.” Most people in an 8-month exclusive relationship would take offense to that.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 0

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          And my answer to his questions was…have an actual relationship with her that includes spending a consistent ongoing period of time together with her before even considering asking her if she sees him as long term potential. He’s thinking long term when, after 8 months, they barely manage to see each other 6 times a month. He has no idea how her move will impact their relationship. They only live a half hour apart now and they can’t manage more than 6 nights a month. I realize that living with parents, depending on their views on sleepovers, etc, might make that difficult. But all the more reason to wait until the situation is free of things like that to see if the relationship takes its natural course or if this is how it will always be.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 12

          • D Says:

            That’s a more measured response. Calling the relationship non-existent is agressive.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1

          • icara Says:

            I see your point, but if they’re spending most of almost every weekend together and the occasional weeknight, they’re spending over half their free time together, and talking every day. For people who live/work far apart, have demanding jobs, and want to maintain contact with their other friends as well, this strikes me as pretty normal.

            I’ve been in this exact same situation. I know the timing seems awkward to bring it up now, because you want to keep your options open and see where it goes, not be forced into premature decisions because of the housing situation.

            In our case, the subject went undiscussed long enough that the first time it came out was in a fight. I agree, you need to bring it up. You can start by hinting: ask her if she’s looking for a place big enough to share, or talking about the location. If that doesn’t work, you can get direct: mention that you’ve been thinking in terms of living together after your lease is up, if things are still going well, and ask how she feels about that.

            But the time to do this is *before* she buys a house. Otherwise, it’s going to get only more awkward, and there’s the possibility of some really hurt feelings.

            What happened to me: I ended up moving someplace I could afford on my own. It wasn’t big enough for both of us, but I assumed that was ok since he’d watched me go through the whole search and said nothing. When we did eventually discuss living together, he got mad at me for the place I chose. I got mad that he hadn’t brought it up a few months earlier, when there might have been other options. Don’t let that happen to you, talk about it now. If you don’t, you’re withholding material information that could influence her decision about what, where, and when to buy.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

        • Tori Says:

          He also asked how long he should wait after she purchased the home before he brings up living together.

          “how long do i wait after she buys the house to bring up living together or do I just totally wait for it to come from her? “

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

      • Ken Says:

        I think your replies to him are that of a jaded or scorned woman. I doubt I am alone in that conclusion as your like/dislike count is not running in your favor. I suggest shed the baggage that is the basis of your negativity, Once you do that you will, hopefully look at the glass seeing that it is also half full.

        Read between the lines here. She is a traditional woman thus the 4 month wait for sex. I read this as she is proceeding with her plans that I suspect have been in place long before these 2 met. She is at the same time trying to get him to open up regarding his thoughts on their future, inviting his thoughts, trying to bring him into the process, soliciting his opinion. She is looking for him to step up to the plate & tell her where the relationship is headed. If I was him I would verbalize my opinion. Failing to give her an indication of his thoughts on the future of the relationship she is going to buy a home with no input from him. He is going to need a place to live. Talk about this with her or she is going to buy a place that may be fine for her but not suitable for both of you. He in turn is going to be forced to either move or sign a lease that he will regret.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 0

  6. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “One of the reasons I had stopped reading a few months ago was because it was clear to me the difference of opinion that I have on the whole dating process than both you and many of the regular responders.”

    I’m not sure it’s so much disagreement or difference of “opinion” as much as you’d like us to take things at “face value” where, as you should know, that’s just not we “do” here. Incidentally, the reason you allegedly stopped reading is the exact reason I’m still here. (I was hoping for your sake that the reason you disappeared was because you were madly in love and had no more time for silly internet rabblerousers, not because your precious ears couldn’t tolerate the sound our dissent.)

    Anyhooo. In all seriousness, your relationship sounds literally childish to me. The way you talk about it reminds me of me when I was 17. Like Moxie, it strikes me as odd is that she’s in the process of buying a home and has not included you in the decisionmaking process. On the other hand, buying a home in New York is often done for economic reasons and not necessarily a sign of “lifetime” commitment. Sometimes it makes sense to buy rather than to rent, which could be the case here. In fact, she is young. A 31 year old woman, in my experience, is thinking about getting married more seriously and realistically than when she was 25 but it may not occur to her than buying a home without consulting her “boyfriend” communicates lack of long-term intention. However, I don’t think Moxie is off base at all, and I’m surprised you view it that way. If she is a mature 31 and is buying a home to live in long-term (i.e. not for economics) and has not consulted you, that is a very bad sign for the future of your relationship. That’s my view.

    On the other hand, maybe we shouldn’t question so much as Novelty previously suggested. Questioning is soooo 2011. 2012 is all about blissful ignorance.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 12

    • chuckrock Says:

      In my question: “She asks me questions about my opinions about the houses she looks at” Hence, she is trying to include me in helping her decision making. She is looking for a 7 year house as an investment and so she doesn’t have to rent (as you imply most of the time if you can afford it buying is smarter than renting in NY).

      Please remember that we have only been together for 8 months. I’m not ready to live with her now either. I mentioned i may be when I leave my current apartment – which will be towards the end of the summer….so at that point we would have been together for double the amount of time than we are now.

      I really wouldn’t expect her to change plans she has had for years for an 8 month relationship. That would be pretty strange to me, actually.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        Hence, she is trying to include me in helping her decision making.

        No, she’s asking you clinical questions about purchasing a house. That’s not what we mean by including you in the process. She’s buying with or without you.

        I’m not ready to live with her now either.

        Then why did you even bother to write this?

        I really wouldn’t expect her to change plans she has had for years for an 8 month relationship.

        She’s not planning a trip, Chuck. She’s making a major life decision and not including you in it. She’s not even hinting to you that she’d like to include you in it.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 20

        • chuckrock Says:

          I wrote this to get input about the questions i actually asked:

          How do I go about being supportive in her decision, helping her figure out what is best for her without looking like I have a vested interest in the result?

          and

          If she is buying a house, I feel the asking to move in probably falls on her to initiate; how long do i wait after she buys the house to bring up living together or do I just totally wait for it to come from her?

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

          • wishing u well Says:

            Be there for her as she asks: buying a house for the first time is huge and a little intimidating to handle on one’s own, no matter how long you’ve prepared to do this. Trust me: 31 or no – when you sit down and go through all that it takes to get qualified to buy a home and the actual process – you are FULLY aware of the gravity of the decision being made.

            That being said – I think that your comment about her not delaying her plans to buy her home over a guy she’s known for 8 months is spot on. She has been planning this for a few years as something she wants to do for herself. 8 months is a decent amount of time, but it isn’t ground breaking. And while you are in her life – she’s clearly at the very least ambiguous about where the relationship is headed and at the most she’s sure that this will never progress beyond a certain point. Based on how she’s handled the situation – Moxie did answer you well – spend more time with her. You both need to see the day in and the day out interactions of life when it comes to each other on a consistent basis. How you each handle the stresses of life, getting sick, etc. How flexible are the both of you in tough situations? Heck – you also need to see “if” her attitude towards you changes as she gets settled into being a homeowner.

            More time together isn’t the “sexy, right now” answer that society seems conditioned to expect, but if you are as serious about building a strong foundation with this woman – patience and perserverance is key. I wouldn’t bring up the situation of living together at all were I you – you guys are also new enough that you could be potentially branded as being “opportunistic” and “pouncing” to get established in the new home that she has worked hard to buy. (She may not come up with this opinion but you’d better believe her family will – and you’re going to need to impress them.) For now – you guys need to continue to build the foundation of your relationship together if you wish it to be a strong one. Anyhow, as always, I wish you well.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

            • Crotch Rocket Says:

              “buying a house for the first time is huge and a little intimidating to handle on one’s own, no matter how long you’ve prepared to do this.” A little intimidating? Buying my house was a life-changing event for me. I was so nervous at the closing they had me do the first few papers over because my hand was shaking so much they weren’t sure the signature would be valid. I had to hand over a check that was nearly half my entire life savings, more money than I had ever handled before in my life–and that was just the down payment! Looking back, I’m somewhat surprised I didn’t wet myself. And, yeah, I’d been planning for that day for over five years.

              “when you sit down and go through all that it takes to get qualified to buy a home and the actual process – you are FULLY aware of the gravity of the decision being made.” Intelligent, financially-responsible people, yes. However, our economy imploded in large part because banks were making predatory loans to people who didn’t understand the gravity of what they were doing. And they’re still doing it.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          • WO7 Says:

            How do I go about being supportive in her decision, helping her figure out what is best for her without looking like I have a vested interest in the result?

            I don’t think you should worry about looking like you have a vested interest in the result.

            If she is buying a house, I feel the asking to move in probably falls on her to initiate; how long do i wait after she buys the house to bring up living together or do I just totally wait for it to come from her?

            I think you’re the one thinking about it, so you should bring it up now.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • Selena Says:

        Have you talked to her about the possibility of you moving in when your lease is up? If so, what did she say? If not, why haven’t you? Has it occurred to you that she may be waiting for you to take the lead on these discussions? Traditionally, it’s the man who proposes co-habitation. She may not be suggesting it out of concerns you are the one who isn’t ready. What do you think?

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

        • chuckrock Says:

          These are the questions I am struggling with, and why i sent the question in to moxie. I actually just learned that I will need to move out at the end of the summer th past weekend, so it is a new development. Otherwise I would have been happy to just stay here until if/when we decided to live together. Having an end date s to my current living situation has just put an extra twist into the situation.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          • Selena Says:

            Well, since you just found out you will have to move at the end of summer (8 mos from now?), you have a great reason to initiate a discussion with her – and still plenty of time to talk things through as well. If you think you would like to live with her then, tell her so. Ask her what she thinks of the idea. If she shoots it down…well you have time to make other arrangements. If she’s enthusiastic…you will have several practical considerations to discuss, like how much will you be contributing financially and what, if any, stake you will have in the house should you become long term partners/marry. Thing is, neither of you have to make a decision Right Now. Just talk.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

            • dimplz Says:

              I think Selena has a point. Even if it was a simple opener like, “Are you asking me what I think because I may live here one day?” to start the conversation. If you can discuss your intentions here, you should tell her too.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

            • chuckrock Says:

              You don’t think it would sound bad for me to say/ask : After you make this decision of spending a few hundred thousand dollars on a house, would you like me to live with you a few months later?

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

              • D Says:

                No. Relationships are about communication. You have to feel comfortable talking about what’s on your mind. Just don’t act needy about it, and be prepared for a response that you may not like.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 0

              • icara Says:

                That statement assumes that living with you is a negative. If she sees it as a positive, what she’ll hear is an offer to see more of you, and get help with expenses to boot. It sure beats “I didn’t bring up living together, because you own too nice a house”.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

              • Crotch Rocket Says:

                “You don’t think it would sound bad for me to say/ask : After you make this decision of spending a few hundred thousand dollars on a house, would you like me to live with you a few months later?” Obviously, that’s not the way you would phrase it, but that is essentially what you want to know, isn’t it?

                I was dating a gal when I bought my house, and I shut her out of that process because I saw it as my house rather than our house. I actually wanted her to move in with me, but I felt she would have taken “buying a house together” as prelude to a proposal, and we just wasn’t there yet–and, as it turned out, we never got there.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

                • chuckrock Says:

                  I do want this to be “her” house and not “our” house. I’m much more comfortable with a situation in which she does what she’d do with or without me knowing it is what she wants. If she does, then there are no regrets should things not work out between us.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

                  • WO7 Says:

                    Why are you worried about regrets there may be if things don’t work out? That’s a defeatist attitude. You should only be assuming it will work out.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

                    • chuckrock Says:

                      Perhaps, but as a realist I know that 8 months is not enough time to be assuming a lifetime together.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

          • kristen Says:

            If she is planning on buying a house, you might want to have a bigger sense of urgency. Your situation is kind of irrelevant, since you’re not in a mortgage situation. If she buys a house in a location you don’t want to live or a house that’s more suited to a single person, you’re both going to be in a hard place. Real estate is a bigger commitment than it was 10 years ago, and she will likely be locked into that house for at least 5 years. I think bringing up long-term plans now, before she gets into a huge financial commitment, will give her a chance to think about if this is the right time to buy a house, and if so, it might change what she’s looking for in a place.

            I think you need to consider why you’re having trouble talking about this with her, though. To the outsider, it doesn’t seem all that complicated if you’re saying you see marriage with her.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

            • chuckrock Says:

              I’ve seen a few of the houses she has looked at, including the one she is contemplating make an offer on. I have a portable business, so location is not a huge issue for me. The size of the houses seem fine too.

              as for is this the right time for her to buy a house: it is in her plan – and i am not looking to change her plan. I think this is the point that i’m having a hard time getting across to this audience. I’m not looking for her to change her plans whatsoever (whether that be delaying buying something or buying in a different area). I want her to do what is best for her and to follow through with her dream.

              As much as I believe we are on the path towards a life together, i also recognize that we have only been dating for 8 months. A lot can happen between now and when I would be comfortable putting marriage on the table which could change that. I am not a rush to get married type of guy. (heck i was with my ex-gf for 7.5 years and we never married).

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

              • Selena Says:

                If that’s the case Chuck, why don’t you just tell her what you’ve told us? You would like the two of you to start living together later in the year, but it would still be HER house – how does she feel about that? She might be relieved knowing that she wouldn’t be sacrificing anything should the relationship not work out.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

                • chuckrock Says:

                  this is the type of advice i am seeking. thank you selena.

                  we were conversing last night about the house. she was trying to put together a pros and cons list about whether she should buy the particular house.

                  part of the convo went like this (in response to some positives i listed for her):

                  her: it sounds like you are all in

                  me: i can not make this decision for you. it is your money and only you can make this decision. if you like the house, can afford it, and think you will be happy then i think you have your answer. If any of those are no, then you also have your answer.

                  her: (sarcastically) I didn’t care for that patented lawyer response

                  me: that is not a lawyer response, that is a boyfriend response of someone who is fearful of having sway on how you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, when it is possible hat at some point in the future said boyfriend may be/ hopes to be living with you.

                  her: i figured you were vested in this decision based on your current living situation

                  me: the last thing i want is for it to come off like i am pushing or hoping you buy something bc i may stand to benefit from it. I really hope that isn’t what you meant.

                  her: that isn’t what i meant.

                  and then we got off topic….we are ADD like that sometimes….

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

                  • Cricri Says:

                    It seems like she has tried to talk to you and get your opinions on the whole thing and you eluded. You should tell her that you wouldn’t mind living with her provided there was some arrangement made when moving in comes in the picture.
                    She’s right about the lawyer answer, you basically excluded yourself from the equation. Sometimes, people need to take some space so that people give them space. If I were her, hearing those answers, I wouldn’t bring up living together at all and just proceed like nothing happened. It seems she feels you don’t want to live together and don’t want to put pressure on you ( I’m just assuming here). Tell her your position about your plans of moving in together after summer ( if that is truly what you want). If she can wait till then to reevaluate, that’s would be a win for both of you. If she wants to go on and do it anyway, it’s another alternative, that is no fashion diminish your relationship. Good Luck

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

                  • uesider Says:

                    her: i figured you were vested in this decision based on your current living situation

                    Well, there is your answer right there. She is interested in living with you at some point if your relationship continues. She may be just waiting for you to say that you feel the same. I think your intentions are admirable, to give her room, to make the decision solely hers, but she’s signalling that she wants to continue with you and consider a more serious commitment, whether living together or more. You need to tell her now that you feel the same way. Otherwise she’s going to get rid of you and find someone who has more long-term plans.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        “She is looking for a 7 year house as an investment” What is a “7 year house”? She only intends to own it for seven years? It takes most home buyers nearly five years just to pay off the closing costs.

        “and so she doesn’t have to rent” If you’re living in it, it’s not an investment.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • chuckrock Says:

          an investment in the sense that she isn’t just throwing money away in rent. If the RE market rebounds at all she’ll be able to sell for a little more than she bought and whatever equity she built up with her mortgage payments will be recouped. Of course this only works if the market rebounds, but if there was ever a time to buy a house…now is it.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    • novelty718 Says:

      Stop questioning yourself to the point of analyzing and breaking down every move someone makes. Asking a question as a form of communication is what Chuckrock wants to do but is unsure he should do…sending in the question here opened him up to questioning himself…which he shouldn’t do.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6

  7. Marques Says:

    Why would anyone write in with a real relationship question to Moxie? She is an expert at getting you to date #2. After that, her opinions aren’t worth much. Dating for eight months is crazy talk to her, so of course she thinks you don’t have a real relationship. Only a twisted person would insist that you clarify how soon you started to have sex before being able to comment on a co-habitation question that is occurring 8 months after you started dating. Moxie knows nothing about long terms relationships; she only understands her own personal fantasy about what a long term relationship should be. Yours does not fit her fantasy, and therefore it isn’t real.

    Maybe your gf is asking about your opinion on the house she wants to buy because she respects your opinion, or maybe she is fishing for you to bring up the cohabitation discussion now. It could go either way. Just be honest with your answer. If you have an opinion, give it. If you don’t, stay quiet. Stop worrying about what-ifs and whether answering questions you have been asked will be misconstrued.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 13

    • dimplz Says:

      Why would anyone continue to comment on a site where they didn’t respect or value the blogger’s opinions? If she’s so misguided, you better book or you might start drinking the kool-aid too.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 7

      • Marques Says:

        Because I surf the web at night for entertainment. Sometimes I respect the blogger’s opinion, and sometimes I don’t. I happen to find Moxie amusing because the ending of her romantic life is very obvious (and sad), yet she insists she knows all. Popping in here every now and again is cheaper than going to see a movie such as “Young Adult” AND I don’t have to put on a pair of trousers to leave my house.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 12

      • chuckrock Says:

        I find when Moxie actually answers the questions that are asked, her opinion is very valid. It is only when she goes off on tangents, like she did here, that it goes off the deep end.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

        • dimplz Says:

          I’m not exactly sure it was a tangent. You say you don’t want to bring this up to her because you want her to initiate the conversation, and that’s understandable. However, the housing market is not going to rise in the next two years, and by then, you could have an engagement (if marriage is a possibility like you say). Knowing this, she is going ahead with her house purchase. Now, this could mean one of two things: 1- she’s not going to slow down her life for you because she doesn’t know where the relationship is headed or 2- she wants you to move into her house and wants to have her name solely on the deed because if it doesn’t work out, it’s her house and you won’t be entitled to it.

          I guess everyone is wondering what’s the hurry if she’s entering a serious relationship. What’s the worst that could happen if she waits 6 months or a year? She’d be padding her bank account and planning for the future so she has nothing to lose.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

          • chuckrock Says:

            I think you have to realize, and maybe i haven’t been clear on this, that she has been planning this for longer than i have been around and that she moved back into her parents house to make it a reality. She has been looking at houses for many months now. Why would she slow down her life? I think that would be silly, tbh. Shoudl she live with her parents another two years while she awaits an engagement? I actually find it baffling that people actually think she should put something like this on hold. I’m purposely trying to get across in my posts that I want her to do this on her own and be happy with her decision whether i am in the picture or not. I’m not sure why this hasn’t been clear already.

            as for 2: under no circumstance would i purchase a house with someone i was not married to, so this is a non-issue.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

            • dimplz Says:

              I didn’t mean for you to purchase the house with her. I mean if you choose to move in AFTER she buys the house, it would be hers until she decides to add you to the deed.

              Changing your life for a person is exactly what commitment is about. If you don’t think either of you will have to do that, I think that’s what’s making a lot of us scratch our heads. If she really thought she could have a future with you too, she would hold off and make the sacrifice. It’s not that long a period of time, in the grand scheme of things.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

              • chuckrock Says:

                I don’t really believe you have to change your life to commit to someone. You just have to merge both of your lives together and make it work. Maybe this is the fundamental difference of philosophy regarding relationships that is making it difficult for you and i to understand where each other are coming from in their respective opinions. I really would never ask someone to sacrifice something they have planned and dreamed of for so long just for me…and i think it would be awfully selfish of me to think she should do that for me.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

                • dimplz Says:

                  Yeah, we definitely disagree. No matter how well matched your values may be, there’s always a change. I don’t see the change as a negative thing, though, and that may be another point in which we differ.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

        • Marques Says:

          True.

          But at the end of the day it is very clear, if you have something she wants, especially if it you wrote about its development on this board and it still hasn’t imploded, Moxie will go off on wild tangents. Had you written about a new potential relationship, she would have answered your question in a straight forward manner. You weren’t supposed to come back dating the same woman, therefore she went off and proclaimed that you have nothing, that your relationship is a farce. It’s jealousy. Your happiness must be an illusion.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 11

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      Hello again, Vox. Have you added Multiple Personality Disorder to your repertoire, or do you really think we’re too stupid to recognize you under a new pseudonym every few days?

      If you don’t like Moxie has to say, you’re welcome to go somewhere else. Spewing all this hatred here just shows how far off the deep end you’ve gone and, ironically, validates what Moxie is saying.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

      • Gogo Says:

        I don’t care if you recognize “me” or not. (Its the internet, silly. Who cares?) Moxie has blocked my original user name and IP, or else I would continue to use it. It greatly amuses me to come here when I am traveling for work and bored, and yes I enjoy taunting her. She can confirm that I’m not at home since I know she stalks IP addresses. Now I’m on a plane, hence the name Gogo.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 14

        • Selena Says:

          I enjoyed many of your *on topic* posts in the past. Pity you’ve reduced yourself to taunting. Not nearly as interesting to read.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

        • Saj Says:

          I enjoy Vox’s deadpan way of looking at things. I did the same thing when I got banned somewhere else and created a bunch of alts (that were systematically banned) and it’s pretty entertaining to troll until the bad feelings are past and things can go back to business as usual. We all get baited here and we all bait unless you are brand new to the comments section.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11

  8. Sweetace Says:

    I think it’s all BS. If you want her, speak up. If want input on where and when she buys the house. If you want her and a future with her SPEAK!!!!! Otherwise you’re wasting everyone’s time.

    Don’t listen to BS you’re not in a relationship because you only see each other 6x a month. I’ve known people who’ve gotten married (still together) with less. Don’t make excuses for the terms of your ‘situation’. If you ‘fools’ say it’s for keeps then it is. Screw everybody else and what they think.

    Bottom line is you sound hesitant to make a commitment.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 1

  9. Chester Says:

    This has been one strange blog topic. First, I think Marques was pretty tough on Moxie. I thought the insults were very abrasive and I think she deserves more respect.
    …and then Chuckrock insulting the first responder….not everyone is going to be a great hellp, you don’t have to insult them if they dont provide value.
    …just lots of negativity.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

    • chuckrock Says:

      I wasn’t insulting Saj – and i hope she didn’t see it that way. I thought her comment was fine and useful. My comment was aimed at Moxie’s post about my question.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • Saj Says:

        :)

        The bottom line though Chuck is what do you want more? To live with her or have her do the asking.

        You seem like a very very cautious person. If i were in a relationship with you I’d probably be really cautious myself as a response. I’d be afraid asking someone like you to move in with me might scare you and if you wanted to move in you would bring it up.

        Also if a guy was really insistent that your house is YOUR house and i want NO input I may take that as a sign that he isn’t looking for a long term commitment from me (even if you are) but guys who seem that insistent usually are trying to keep themselves nice and distant from the entire thing. If you both wait for the other I have a feeling you will both be waiting a very very long time.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

        • chuckrock Says:

          I am a cautious person. She is also cautious by nature.

          Look, I understand your points, i do. If I was ready to move in with her today, i probably wouldn’t have issue asking her about it. But I am not…not yet. I am thinking for the future, which if the timing falls the way it seems will be after she has purchased her house. It just seems strange to me that it would be proper to ask to move into her house. It is akin to inviting oneself to a party.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            “It just seems strange to me that it would be proper to ask to move into her house. It is akin to inviting oneself to a party.” There’s such a thing as being too cautious. And it doesn’t have to take the form of inviting yourself into her home. For instance, when she was asking if various houses were too big or too small, that was a perfect opportunity to ask if she planned to live alone, with a roommate(s), with a boyfriend (eg. you), etc.

            “If I was ready to move in with her today, i probably wouldn’t have issue asking her about it.” So, it’s really not about some fear of inviting yourself; it’s about you not being “ready”, whatever that means. If you’re asking yourself (and us) these questions now, I take that as a sign that you are ready but don’t want to ask because you fear rejection.

            You’re playing the lawyer here by not asking a question you don’t know the answer to. You are not in court, counselor. You need to take a risk and open yourself up because without risk there can be no reward; the reward, in this case, is not living together; it’s developing intimacy through open communication. It’s telling that you can expose your feelings and fears here (with a little prodding) but cannot do so with the woman you claim to love and are contemplating marrying.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  10. LT Says:

    I have a few comments and questions for chuckrock. I think all relationships are different and this sounds like a real relationship but I do wonder why your gf waited 4 months to have sex? Did she ask for a committment before sex or was that already established? It sounds like your gf hasn’t had many mature relationships because when a girl waits 4 months to have sex it seems like a high school or college relationship (a girl not comfortable with herself or her body). This could be the reason that chuckrock knows that he’s not ready to move in with his gf now because things started off slowly and he wants more time to be sure about the relationship.

    I think that it also sounds like you and your gf just need to communicate a little better. You need to ask her if she sees the two of you living together in the house she is buying. That will get the conversation started. I think she is probably thinking about the two of you living together (that’s why she is asking for your input) but like others said she’s too nervous to ask you so she’s waitng for you to bring it up. I think you both are just trying to play it cool but you both need to open up more and have a real conversation about the future.
    .

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    • chuckrock Says:

      I do not see how or why our sex life matters here. She wanted to wait for sex because she decided that she only wanted to sleep with guys she was in serious relationships with. We were exclusive by the second month if memory serves.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

  11. Ken S Says:

    Chuckrock, you may think this relationship is “serious” but it is in no way healthy or functional. Any person looking to buy an apt/house on his or her own is clearly acting independently, and if you are even part of that equation then she is wearing the pants in this relationship. 35 and living at home, and buying a place? How about living on her own first, or meeting someone she loves first, then buying a place TOGETHER? That place will always be “hers”, and not “yours”, no matter if you’re married and live there 20 years, that will always be there. That’s how I would feel. Perhaps you stopped reading this blog because you can’t accept the truth, that you prefer a relationship or marriage where the woman wears the pants. That’s fine if that’s what you want, but it’s not for me. I’d want to go into things equally, not move in and be a “roommate” to someone who has already made her life plans without you.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 23

  12. Tori Says:

    I can’t figure out what the main question is in this letter. Is it whether or not his girlfriend wants to live with him or is he asking everybody whether or not they feel his girlfriend sees a future with him?

    What sort of questions is she asking you about the houses? What types of opinions is she seeking? Are they personal in nature or more general?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  13. Alan Says:

    How do I go about being supportive in her decision, helping her figure out what is best for her without looking like I have a vested interest in the result?. . . “iF If she is buying a house, I feel the asking to move in probably falls on her to initiate; how long do i wait after she buys the house to bring up living together or do I just totally wait for it to come from her? For the record, i very much need to live with someone prior to engagement – and she already knows this about me.”

    I wanted to copy and paste your questions so I would know exactly what you asked Moxie about. Now that I have and also have reviewed your other responses to people’s comments on this subject I have come to a personal conclusion.

    You appear to be inflexible and your questions are unanswerable, not important maybe idiotic.

    Why is asking to move in have to be her idea; why do you necessarily have to cohabitate prior to engagement; why would you not ask someone to change their plans (PARTICULARLY ONE AS UNIMPORTANT AND DEFERABLE AS BUYING A HOUSE).

    So let me answer what I can. You don’t need to be supportive in her decision. And if you feel you do, just ask her “how can I be supportive to your decision” and just listen. And when you then offer support disclose whether you have a conflict (ie vested interest), because if you have a conflict you can’t make it go away. You can only disclose it. And while the “how long” question is totally silly–today might be ok and so might three years from now–I have done a web search and consulted Ms Manners. There is no written etiquette on the subject so it is all about feelings. When you want to and when you think it would be appropriate. Personally I would wait until she buys the furniture and see if the flat screen is big enuff. But dat’s me.

    What question you need to ask and what you should ask her is “WHERE IS THIS TING WE GOT GOIN?”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

  14. dimplz Says:

    I’m not picking on you, Chuck, but you’ve got a lot of thinking to do:

    “If she is buying a house, I feel the asking to move in probably falls on her to initiate” No it doesn’t. You’re both in the relationship. It falls on both of you to discuss. She’s not bringing it up because it’s either too soon for her, she doesn’t want to live with you before marriage, or she’s not serious about you.

    “How do I go about being supportive in her decision, helping her figure out what is best for her without looking like I have a vested interest in the result?” But you MAY have a vested interest, so basically you are asking Moxie how you can deceive her without her figuring it out. Why would you want to do that?

    “For the record, i very much need to live with someone prior to engagement – and she already knows this about me.” And what do you know about her? One thing I will share, when my guy doesn’t want to start a fight, he won’t object to what I’m saying, he will just silently and passively not do it. When I ask him straight out, he has no choice but to tell me. Most people take the path of least resistance. Silence doesn’t equal assent.

    “How long do i wait after she buys the house to bring up living together or do I just totally wait for it to come from her?” You have already thought of it – it’s already in your mind – bring it up. If you think this is going to disrupt your relationship, then your relationship just isn’t that strong. It may take time to build up that strength but if she takes off and goes cold on you, she ain’t the one. It’s that simple.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1

    • lisette Says:

      Whaaaat!!! What did I miss? The guy posted a simple question and got back so much *haterade* from whomever is running this blog that I’m just floored. Then I went on to read stuff from other posters that just doesn’t make any sense. This man has found a relationship that works. On top of that he sounds mature and insightful and he’s already looking toward the future with his woman. Eight months is right on time for that. If he’s nervous about bringing up a big commitment, that’s also normal. I read somewhere that statistically, many men, end up leaving relationships without proposing because they fear the women will say no to marriage, thus they don’t bring it up. So women, don’t be afraid to bring up marriage first…you may be surprised. By the way, I don’t think its a “red flag” that she took 4 months to sleep with him. Just because *everybody* is doing it within 2 week, doesn’t mean those who wait are weird or not serious…nor do I see it as a problem that they’re “only” spending part or Saturday and Sunday together. I’m sure he works, and so does she. If he lived in her building, then I would ask why there isn’t more time together, but we’re all working and busy with life, I think finding someone to spend time with *consistently* is a huge win. I define consistent as once a week…or more.
      Anyway, the worst thing anyone can do is take advice from a single person. If you take advice from single people, you will quickly end up *single* too. I have a sinking suspicion that the writer off this blog is VERY single. Her expectations and impatience and frustrations seem high. She also sounds rude and narrow minded. By the way, I haven’t been on here in donkey years, Is the blog writer still that same very overweight, very angry, unattractive, masculine looking woman that I saw at a forum years ago. She was so angry and hostile that night, my friends and me couldn’t believe she thought she would ever find a man to put up with her. If it is her, trust me, there is no way shes in a position to tell anybody, anything!!!

      Lastly, the only 2 people who can speak on their relationship are the 2 who are involved in said relationship. There are so many different configurations out there. If it works for you, forget about other peoples negative comments. Don’t ruin your relationship or throw it away because so and so doesn’t think it measures up to their standards of whats real or not. Just keep trying and making it happen.
      I

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

      • dimplz Says:

        They are just differing opinions. Feel free to relax.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        “If he’s nervous about bringing up a big commitment, that’s also normal. I read somewhere that statistically, many men, end up leaving relationships without proposing because they fear the women will say no to marriage, thus they don’t bring it up.”

        On the planet that you live on, maybe it is difficult to get a woman to commit. On Earth (or at least, in our culture), it is rare for a woman to be in a “relationship” and not expect some sort of committment. Moreover,, in my experience, the kind of commitment they seek is traditional marriage. Comon experience trumps your “I read somewhere….” Stop kidding yourself. To abuse the metaphor, getting a woman to commit is like shooting fish in a barrel. Look at the woman on the later post (and numerous other posts) who’s a few weeks in with some guy and is she’s already ready to move stuff in.

        “By the way, I don’t think its a “red flag” that she took 4 months to sleep with him. Just because *everybody* is doing it within 2 week, doesn’t mean those who wait are weird or not serious.”

        Well, thanks, but who the fuck are you? Do you have anything to support your view? It’s not a matter of “weird.” Those of us with experience in this sort of thing recognize that an unwillingness to be physical is a sign of a problem in the relationship – most likely, lack of attraction. Also, for those of us who have been reading for a while, we know this story with Chuckrock already. To this day, we have never been given any explanation for why she wanted to wait. So, sure, maybe it’s a sign of nothing but we have no way of knowing because Chuckrock either doesn’t know himself or refused to share.

        “he sounds mature and insightful and he’s already looking toward the future with his woman.”

        Maturity is relative.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

        • chuckrock Says:

          I’m pretty sure I did tell everyone why she wanted to wait, but you all just told me i was wrong and decided you knew better than I did; despite the fact that it was my own relationship…..

          quite frankly most of the advice given by the regulars on this blog is just plain poor advice, and if i listened to it i would never find someone worthwhile to share my life with.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            For someone who stopped reading you sure are on top of this thread.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

            • chuckrock Says:

              I noticed your facebook post and thought the topic looked familiar so i checked back in.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

          • DrivingMeNutes Says:

            Duly wounded. Did you tell us? Tell again.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

            • chuckrock Says:

              Why? So you can all tell me that I’m wrong and that my relationship is fake? No thanks.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

              • DrivingMeNutes Says:

                No, you didn’t tell us. You only told us something vague like she “wasn’t ready” which only begs the question: WHY. Why Why why. You don’t know, that’s why.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

                • chuckrock Says:

                  I think i was more specific than that.

                  on the short: she had decided, prior to me, that she wasn’t going to sleep around anymore until a relationship was more serious.

                  Really, the only important part is that I am ok with why she waited.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

                  • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                    Even if you weren’t okay with it, you were still going to continue with it. You said yourself you wish it didn’t take that long at that it bothered you. So it’s not that you’re okay with why she waited. You weren’t. This is just an example of cognitive dissonance. You were never really okay with it. You just accepted it.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

                    • chuckrock Says:

                      I said I wish it didn’t take so long, that is NOT the same thing as me not being ok with it. That is you putting words in my mouth. If i wasn’t ok with it i wouldn’t have accepted it and we wouldn’t have continued to see each other. Fact is that she was worth the wait.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

              • DrivingMeNutes Says:

                By the way, I don’t think your relationship is “fake.” I have an entirely different take on it than Moxie. I think your relationship is quite typical and normal, actually. But, what do I know, I’m single. :(

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

                • Crotch Rocket Says:

                  “I think your relationship is quite typical and normal,” I agree. However, I consider the “typical and normal” relationships I see to be quite immature, just like the impression I get of chuckrock’s.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        “I read somewhere that statistically, many men, end up leaving relationships without proposing because they fear the women will say no to marriage, thus they don’t bring it up.” I would love a citation for that. I have never in my life known a man, or even heard of a man, ending a relationship because he feared the woman would reject his proposal. I only know one guy whose proposal was rejected (because the rock wasn’t big enough), and he still didn’t leave her! (He sold his truck so he could afford a bigger rock, and she married him.)

        For men, getting married is as easy as falling off a log. A greased log. During an earthquake. While drunk. The hard part for us is finding the right bride.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  15. DNice Says:

    Wow…I’m really taken aback by the lack of communication identified in this post-which I also think may be embedded his relationship, but because he was clear about what he needed input on I’ll keep to that set of questions.
    Chuckrock, I agree with the folks who are suggesting that you speak to her and say EXACTLY what you’ve posted here,” Listen, I want to be supportive in your house hunt, and I appreciate your asking my opinion- which I’m happy to give, but I don’t want you to get the impression that I have an ulterior motive…”. That should at least open up the conversation for answering the other questions.
    Also, I can definitely understand why you’ve been away from this blogspot. Lately, I’ve noticed a particularly bitter taste to Moxie’s responses. I can understand being a realist, some things aren’t what we’d hoped they would be and sometimes it takes a brisk commentator to point that out, but to bear judgement on someone else’s relationship which was not the purpose of their asking your perspective just seems angry…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 0

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      There’s nothing bitter about my responses. Nothing. Abrasive? Sure. Harsh? Yes. That’s not borne of bitterness. That’s another word that people like to use to describe a woman who they believe is “single” (though they don’t even know if that’s true, they just choose to believe it because it fits their personal inner narrative) who says things without sugar coating them. Which, by the way, has pretty much been my approach for several years.

      Chuck is no stranger to that. He even says that he knew that people here (i.e. me) have a very different perspective on relationships. Which begs the question…why would he come here in the first place and want us, people he already knows have vastly different views, to “dissect” (his words) his situation?

      I’m not going to ignore obvious red flags just so I can give the OP some pat little answer so they can go back to running on that hamster wheel of rationalization. It’s counter productive. It’s also a huge waste of my time to write these responses out and they have the OP haunt the comments and go, “Oh, but you don’t understand. It’s not like that because…”

      Even more frustrating are the people who jump in and go, “That happened to me once. It didn’t work out, but for totally different reasons. Here’s why my situation is different” time and time again. After awhile, all those anecdotes add up to one conclusion…you haven’t a clue what you’re doing when it comes to relationships an dating.

      On top of all of that BS, I’M the one accused of being bitter or negative or messed up or what have you. Or I’m jealous. Seriously? Jealous of WHAT? That people so badly want to say they’re in a relationship that they will justify any and all questionable behavior just so they can say they’re in a relationship? That you need to say, “Well, the guy I’m seeing is…” Please. I beg of you. Date that guy for a year, live in the same city, see each other multiple times a week and then start leaning on it as evidence that you’re so wise and have it figured out. Don’t use some situation where you see some dude once a week, or that you’ve been dating for 6 weeks, or some desperado you plucked from way on down the food chain as your source. But that’s what women expect. If you’re not referring to your relationship every chance you get, or you’re not broadcasting it in some way, well then you must not have one or are being pumped and dumped, so then what do you know? What’s the point of being with someone if you can’t brag and talk about it, amirite?

      Some of you wouldn’t know a healthy relationship if it bit you on the ass. Some of you are so damn desperate to be able to say you’re in a relationship or so embarrassed to admit that what you have going on with someone amounts to a hill of nothing that you willingly ignore crucial red flags. And then you expect me to ignore them too so you can continue to live in your little fantasy worlds. And if I dare point out these red flags, well, I MUST be jealous. Or angry. Or bitter. Or have no long term dating experience. There has to be a reason other than…I’M RIGHT.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 27

      • D Says:

        It’s your tone. Harsh comes across as bitter. As a writer, surely you get that?

        Compare it to someone like Advice Goddess, who is very cheeky and direct but never comes across as angry.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 5

      • Ken Says:

        One thought comes to mind this morning: “Me thinks the lady doth protest too much!”

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4

  16. Snowflake Says:

    Chuckrock, I have learned a valuable lesson in the past 9 months from my closests friends. If you have a question, just come out and ask it. Don’t over analyze, don’t over ponder, ask. Communicate, discuss, listen. Assuming and analyzing leads you no where. You cannot read her or anyone else’s mind right? How else are you to know what her plans are or where she is going with things. There is never a wrong question to ask but only wrong to assume. No one else but you two are in this relationship. We do not know her or you. The only one who can find out these important questions is ONLY YOU. Are you afraid of the outcome? If you are its a legit fear but do not allow that fear to paralyze you into not asking what you know needs to be asked. Whats worse? Knowing or assuming ie not knowing? Once you talk this through you can figure out the rest of the year vs sitting on edge and driving yourself up the wall with anxiety and worry.

    The commenters on here are harsh because they do not coddle. Thats why most of us come here. We want the brutal truth the most people do not want to hear. Well I know I do, the truth is the truth you cannot hide from it.

    There is a reason why you wrote in. Take all that has been said, as just us being honest. You want foresight it was pretty much given, unfiltered.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  17. Crotch Rocket Says:

    “We’re not too young (35 & 31)” Perhaps in body, but from the rest of your details and questions, if you hadn’t given your ages, I would have guessed 25 and 21. I don’t think Mox was saying your relationship is fake; I think what she’s saying is that it seems immature, i.e. you’re not really adults. OTOH, plenty of early-twenties folks move in together and get married, so it should be taken as more of a caution that neither of you seem to have the experience to really understand what you’re doing here–but your physical age means you really don’t have a lot of time to figure it out and get it right, at least if you want kids.

    “She lives with her parents (has for past couple of years)” WTF? Sorry, but most adults move out when they’re 18 or shortly thereafter. I would have a difficult time making a long-term commitment to someone who can’t make it in the world without mommy and daddy.

    “and will likely put a bid in on a house in the next couple of weeks.” Okay, if the reason she was living at home was to save up for a down payment on a house, that partially excuses it–but only partly. OTOH, if mommy and daddy are helping with the down payment (perhaps to get her to finally leave the nest), that’s even worse.

    “She asks me questions about my opinions about the houses she looks at, but I am hesitant to answer them usually.” If she asks for your opinion, give it. However, until discussed otherwise (see below), you should give answers that assume she’ll be living there alone.

    “I don’t want to give the impression that I am assuming I will be living there eventually also.” Sounds like it’s time to put on your big-boy pants and have an adult discussion about whether she’s hoping you’ll be moving in. If she hasn’t raised the issue herself by now, it’s because she’s just as afraid as you are, but until you talk about it, you won’t know why. She might be hoping you’ll move in but afraid that telling you will scare you off. Or she might expect to live alone but afraid that telling you will result in you breaking up with her. Or it might be something else.

    “But I would imagine due to our situations, that if she buys something and we do decide to live together the thing that makes sense would be for me to move into her place.” Of course; if one of you owns a home, that is the most logical place to live if you decide to live together. However, that is a moot point until you two discuss whether you both want to live together–and it shouldn’t be for financial reasons, as it often is. Also, as the non-owner, you will be the one who needs to have a backup plan in case things don’t work out; not that I would wish that on you, but it’s statistically likely. Put some money aside so you can move out if necessary rather than end up trapped in someone else’s house who doesn’t want you there.

    “How do I go about being supportive in her decision, helping her figure out what is best for her without looking like I have a vested interest in the result?” You should have a vested interest, i.e. wanting her to be happy, just like you would with any platonic friend or family member. Without knowing how seriously she is taking what you say, though, the best you can do is distinguish between facts (stuff that will affect her decision no matter what she thinks of you) and personal preferences (stuff that will affect her decision only if she expects you’ll live there). But, really, it’s simpler to just get the big issue on the table than play childish guessing games.

    “If she is buying a house, I feel the asking to move in probably falls on her to initiate” And she probably feels the asking falls on you to initiate, so you’ll never get anywhere if you don’t bring it up. IMHO, you should do so now, but failing that you should definitely do so before you start looking for a new place as the end of your current lease approaches. Do your best to raise it in a way that makes either answer sound acceptable, because boxing her in will lead to resentment even if she wants what you want, but also don’t fear expressing your preference.

    “almost every weekend we spend sat. afternoon through sunday night together. Sometimes (maybe once a month) we start hanging out on friday night (it depends on the pans for that particular weekend). Also, maybe every third week, we see each other one evening during the week for a movie or dinner or something like that.” So you’re seeing each other maybe six days a month, and never for more than a day at a time? Sorry, but that is not enough to have any clue how things will go if you live together. I recommend you work up to a week at a time together at your place. (Normally, I’d suggest alternating places, but she lives with her parents.) Have either of you ever lived with anyone before? If so, this shouldn’t be news.

    “now we [have sex] almost anytime she stays over my place.” Ah, but what are the expectations each of you has when you’re sleeping in the same bed every night? One of you may be happy with five or so times a month but the other may be expecting it to be nearly every night; both are valid ways of interpreting the status quo. That’s a big potential disconnect–and is one of the things that will have to get worked out if you spend consecutive nights together (see above).

    “We slept together around the 4 month mark but it didn’t become a regular thing until about the 5 month mark.” Sorry, I’m having flashbacks to high school here. She must be an amazing gal–or you a desperate guy–for you to have waited that long. And, given the maturity levels I’m reading here, I’m leaning toward the latter.

    “I believe she put herself on birth control during this time” Waitaminute, you don’t know this? I was inquiring into girlfriends’ birth control status at 15; you’re two decades older and still aren’t sure what’s going on with that? Put your dick back in your diapers until you grow up and learn to use it responsibly.

    “and [she] was more willing to once she was.” Sorry, but describing your girlfriend as “willing” to have sex does not inspire confidence in your future sex life, relationship health and overall happiness together. The word implies it’s something she’s doing for you as a favor or in return for something, rather than something she wants to do for her own benefit, and that’s rarely a good sign.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Let’s play a game.

      Let’s pretend that this letter was submitted by a woman. The guy she’s been dating for 8 months, that she sees maybe 5-6 times a month, is buying a home and hasn’t broached the topic of her moving in with him. She feels insecure about bringing said conversation up.

      Go.

      I truly wonder how quick everybody would be to tell her he’s not in to her.

      This issue isn’t about the house or what a big investment it is. The issue is that, after 8 months of dating, these two don’t appear to be on the same page.

      And I’m waiting for Chuck to answer someone’s question from upthread about what type of opinions she’s asking concerning the purchase of the house. So far it’s been all about “I don’t want to disrupt her plan.”

      I think you project your own inadequacies on having a long term relationship on other people’s relationship and try and tear them down simply because you can’t conceive of people actually being happy and finding someone.

      I don’t have inadequacies about having or not having long term relationships. My response to you is based on good old fashioned common sense. Seeing someone 6 times a month after 8 months of dating is not enough of a foundation to be wondering about moving in together, which was one of the questions you asked. You can’t even muster up the balls to ask this woman if she sees you in her life. Yet you’re sitting here spinning your wheels about the economy and her plan and marriage and moving in.

      You have never once said, “She’s told me she loves me.” or “She told me she feels the same way I do.” In fact, you don’t have one concrete bit of evidence to support this belief of yours that you two have this great relationship other than you spent the holidays with her and she does little things for you. Chuck, has she told you that she sees a future with you? That’s the question you keep dodging.

      This is not about buying house. This is about you not knowing how your own “girlfriend” feels about you and your insecurity over asking the important questions. You’re not asking for a reason, and my guess is it’s because you know the answer.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

      • chuckrock Says:

        There have been a lot of questions asked that I haven’t answered because I have been posting a lot and don’t want to over saturate this thread with my own posts – since I know you frown upon that and at the end of the day this is still your blog, not mine.

        “what type of opinions she’s asking concerning the purchase of the house” she asked all sorts of questions, from picking at my legal expertise to whether i liked the neighborhood. She’s asked if I thought one house was too small and a different house was too big. She’s asked, as I looked at a house with her, about whether I thought it needed too much work to be done. More than this too, i just don’t remember specifics as i write this – as i don’t write every conversation down in a log :)

        You keep harping on this: Seeing someone 6 times a month after 8 months of dating is not enough of a foundation to be wondering about moving in together, which was one of the questions you asked. and I personally think you are off base with it and its implications. We don’t just see each other 6 times a month but spend almost entire weekends together. If you spent an entire week with someone, would that be only seeing them once? I’m not sure how much more often I can possibly see her than i do..unless we lived together. Staying at my place on a weeknight would make her commute to work much longer than it already is. I don’t stay at her place unless her parents are away (which actually happens frequently bc both of her other siblings are out of state). we both work during the week, and i sometimes work on saturday. I think spending most of our free time together is a very good foundation.

        You have never once said, “She’s told me she loves me.” or “She told me she feels the same way I do.” She has told me she feels the same way as i do regarding that she can see a future with me. Clear enough?

        This is not about buying house. I agree, it is not. It is about being the one to ask about living with someone when the other person is the one with a house, and it would not be a mutual rent something together situation. It isn’t just me asking to live together but me asking to move into her house. It is different, in my opinion.

        I think i addressed your questions, if not – redirect me.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          but spend almost entire weekends together

          That’s not what you originally stated. This is from our original email exchange.

          ME:
          So, you two basically see each other once a week? Saturday to Sunday? With the ocassional Friday night and weekday night once a month?

          YOUR RESPONSE:
          Yes, I would guess that is an accurate assessment on how often we see each other

          I’m going by what you said and what you confirmed.

          We don’t just see each other 6 times a month but spend almost entire weekends together

          No. You spend, in your words, *almost* every Saturday afternoon through Sunday night together. And since you confirmed that that weekend time was once a week, I’m going to assume she doesn’t stay over Sunday night. So you spend roughly 36 hours together “almost’ every weekend with the occasional Friday or weekday night thrown in.

          She has told me she feels the same way as i do regarding that she can see a future with me. Clear enough?

          No. Has she explicit;y said she loves you and that she wants to have a future with you.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

          • chuckrock Says:

            How is “almost entire weekends together” different than “every Saturday afternoon through Sunday night” ? My weekend starts when i wake up on Saturday and lasts until I go to bed on Sunday, unless there is an event on Friday night that forces the weekend to start early.

            So, if i wake up around 9 on a saturday and meet up with her around 3 and see her until about 10 or 11 on sunday night, that is almost the entire weekend in my book.

            Has she explicit;y said she loves you and that she wants to have a future with you. Neither one of us is the type that throws that phrase around. I have never said it to anyone except my main ex-gf. She has said she can see having a future with me.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

            • dimplz Says:

              It’s been 8 months. You’ve been inside her. I think it’s safe to take the lid off the cookie jar.

              Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3

            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              3 and see her until about 10 or 11 on sunday night, that is almost the entire weekend in my book.

              And that’s about 30-32 hours in mine. Which is not 48. Which is not a full weekend.

              Neither one of us is the type that throws that phrase around.

              Jesus. Enough with the excuses. Neither of you are the types to say I love you casually, but you’re both totally the type to discuss,in a ridiculously convoluted way ,whether you’ll be living together. Holy balls. 8 MONTHS!!! You have sex once a week! You haven’t said I love you! You two can barely have a cohesive conversation! In what world is this a healthy relationship??????????????????

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 12

              • chuckrock Says:

                look you can spin this any way you want, but the fact is that we have a very healthy relationship, are able to talk about things, and despite what some of you people might think we are both very mature and responsible adults.

                just because we don’t say “i love you” doesn’t mean we don’t love each other. love is shown through actions not through words. words are meaningless.

                i still don’t see how our sex lives have anything to do with this. we have sex enough for our current situation and we are both satisfied. our relationship is deeper than just being about sex.

                yes, 8 months. Not an incredibly long time in the grand scheme of things.

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7

                • Selena Says:

                  DO you love her? Actions do not always speak louder than words. And words don’t always speak louder than actions either. Actions and words together though? Yeah, that’s when you know you are loved.

                  You say your girlfriend isn’t one to say “I Love You” lightly. Might be because she feels/expects the male to be the one to say it first. And mean it when he says it. If you can’t bring yourself to say it, then it would be wise for you to do some introspection as to why you can’t. Maybe you don’t feel it?

                  Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

                  • chuckrock Says:

                    I would not be considering living with her in the near future if I did not love her. My christmas present to her was a locket with the words “i love you” inscribed on the inside, but no – have not actually said it nor do i plan to soon. Like i said i believe actions are more important than words. she has shown me through her actions that she feels that way about me.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

                    • Selena Says:

                      If you feel it Chuck, why can’t you say it? Why don’t you plan to say it anytime soon? What is so hard about saying the words IF you feel them?

                      This may be the crux of it: if neither of you can SAY what you feel, you may be misinterpretating each other – actions be damned. And neither of you might get to the place you want to be, if you can’t feel comfortable saying what you really feel. Do you see this?

                      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

            • Saj Says:

              Spending weekends together plus a day a week seems to be a lot and the norm for two full time working people who live a half hour to 45 minutes apart. If it was something like every other week then that’s too little but the system works for their schedules and there seems to be plenty of time for bonding or whatever else you need to figure someone out.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

        • Selena Says:

          Why haven’t you exchanged “I love you’s” after 8 mos together? I find it difficult to imagine making a commitment like co-habitation, let alone possible marriage without love being clear.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1

      • D Says:

        Actually, that would be less of a big deal to me. Men are expected to be breadwinners and buy homes.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  18. Mark Says:

    Hilarious photo of the guy scratching his head not withstanding….

    Chuckrock (OP):

    Disclaimer: I didn’t read the whole post. I only read the first 3-4 paragraphs.

    You seem like a smart guy. I take it that your significant other is the same.

    You both have been around the block and so you both have (or should) have a good idea of what you want, and what you have to offer.

    Long story short: Your heart and your gut are saying something to you, Use your head to get you there.

    Best of luck.

    Regards

    M

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  19. offensivedan Says:

    Jesus, I don’t need to read all the comments to see what is happening here. Chuck, you opened yourself up to this and it’s good b/c you seem to be in denial:

    To being with, Chuck’s “relationship” is weird. I just think it’s strange that she waited four (4) months to have sex and they only see each other infrequently at this point. (On a sidenote, obviously, this girl is leading and dictating the terms of this relationship)

    I’m sorry but Moxie is right. In a real relationship, you guys would be spending more time together. Also, c’mon Chuck, you guys have been going out for eight (8) months and she did not bring up the possibility of you moving in with her when she decided to buy a house? And now you don’t want to broach the subject? Dude, you are in denial. Even if this is a “relationship, it’s a relationship of convenience. Trust me on this. If a woman is thinking long term she would have talked to you about prospective living arrangements whether buying a house or you moving in. I can’t believe she did not even bring it up even if it was just once or in jest!

    Chuck, I see a break-up in your future. You need to bring up moving in together if she won’t. Then you will know what the deal is. If you don’t and get dumped, it’s your fault for wasting your time.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 9

  20. offensivedan Says:

    Chuck be a man and ask her. One thing I have learned is if a person is not into you they’ll show it when cornered by a direct question.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  21. Carina Says:

    Chuck,
    What is it that doesnt allow you to spend more time with her?
    I know that if I was living with my parents, I would feel awekward spending every night at my bfs. Only because I know they were very conservative about those things and even at my age (32) I wouldnt feel comfortable. And I believe (from experience) that if shes showing u those places shes hinting that she wants you involved in some way. But I think you need to take more initiative and first, tell her u love her!!! (if u do) and after that (depending on her response) things will start falling into place for the two of you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    • chuckrock Says:

      There really isn’t any more free time to sped together. We spend the weekends together and go out occasionally during the week. Are we suppose to go out every night? Like i said for her to stay here would add a lot of extra time to her commute in the morning so that wouldn’t make sense especially since she couldn’t get out here until like 8 at the earliest. I’m not sure when people expect the seeing each more time to come from.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

      • K. Says:

        Over the summer I dated a man who lived in Hoboken. Sometimes he’d ride his bike to my apartment on the Upper East Side or I’d take The Path to his or he’d come pick me up in his car. We still managed to see each other 2 times a week. That was an almost 90 minute commute for us.

        Then I dated a man for almost 6 months who lives downtown. He works for a large university in the city and had an atypical schedule. It took me 45-60 minutes by public transportation to get to his apartment from my apartment depending on the trains. Other times he’d drive uptown to pick me up which would take 20-30 minutes.

        Sometimes he taught a class or had a faculty function that got out at 8pm or later. Sometimes I worked in the evenings and didn’t finish til 9pm. Even if he had a 10am class we would still get together around 10pm or even later even if it meant only spending a couple hours together at night and an hour in the morning together. Even our weekends were screwy because of our jobs. We didn’t have typical date nights. Dinner for me was 7pm. With him it became 9 or 10. I used to work out at a specific time. That shifted, too because my morning schedule would be shifted. I’m someone who has a very difficult time with schedule changes. I don’t adapt well to change. But I did it because I cared for him. He’d sit in traffic after teaching back to back classes just to come get me. That’s what you do. You make sacrifices. You make yourself uncomfortable. You choose to disrupt your life for the sake of another. THAT’S what a relationship is.

        When you meet someone that you really care for, you make the time. It might mean getting up a little extra early or staying up past your bed time but you make the adjustments necessary.

        Neither of you seem as though you can be bothered to make any extra effort for the other.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3

      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        “Are we suppose to go out every night?” It’s not about “going out”; it’s about spending time together, just dealing with daily life. And, yes, you will both have to make sacrifices; that’s what commitment means. Having a date once or twice a week when convenient is not a relationship; it’s figuring out whether you’re compatible enough to want to make those sacrifices for each other. If you are, get on with it. If you aren’t, stop seeing each other. If you’re not sure, then keep dating until you figure it out–but lose the fantasies about moving in, getting married, having kids, etc. in the meantime.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • chuckrock Says:

          i’m sorry, i’m not sure you are following the situation properly. thank you for your input though, i appreciate your time. I am not looking to justify our relationship anymore. I KNOW we have a strong one and that it works very well for us. We spend plenty of time together and it is not an issue.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  22. Dora Says:

    How can you people bla,bla for so long about such a trivial thing…? What are you Chuck…? dam..a or what…? Don’t you get it..?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5

    • chuckrock Says:

      i have no idea what this means…except how you are trying to tell me that my problems are trivial…thanks for that.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        If someone doesn’t care enough about their ideas to express them coherently, you shouldn’t care either.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  23. WO7 Says:

    This thread is getting annoying.

    Can we stop harping on the amount of sex Chuck has, the amount of time he and his gf spend together, and the length of time his gf waited before the first time they had sex. All of these things are personal preferences and do not directly point to anything wrong in the relationship.

    Here are the problems as I see them:
    1. Chuck doesn’t want to come off like he has a vested interest in the house. But he DOES! As far as he currently believes, he will end up marrying this woman. That means he will likely end up living in the house she buys. That means he has a right to have a vested interest. It’s her money, so she has a right to ignore his vested interest if she wants to, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t even have a right to chime in. Chuck, I don’t care if you didn’t exist in her life when she started planning to buy this house. You’re in her life now, and if you should be trying to involve yourself.

    2. Chuck can’t seem to communicate with this woman when he has a question for her. After 8 months, you should feel safe in bringing this topic up without it ruining everything. I’m not saying she will agree with you, or that you will agree with her. But as long as you’re calm, polite, fair, and reasonable; you should be able to tell her everything that you have told us.

    3. Chuck is in love with this woman but is unable to tell her so. The only reason to wait to say I love you is to make sure that’s what you really feel. If you know you feel it, then you should say it.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

    • BruceWayne Says:

      This. Thank you. This thread is just bleh. And the OP’s / LW’s / people who write in to Moxie seem to get so defensive whenever she gives them an answer they don’t like. I guess most people think they’re right and that the advice they get will just confirm the thoughts they already had.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

      • BruceWayne Says:

        Whoops, one more thing:

        This is just one person’s advice/thoughts/opinions. You don’t have to act on or even like advice. You can just ignore it if you want to and go about your day. I like the discussions, but sometimes they just run around in circles around here.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  24. Terry Says:

    What I see is that the guy who posed the question is:

    1) selfish, self-absorbed and self-indulgent;
    2) wants it all on HIS terms – when HE wants it, how HE wants it, IF HE wants it;
    3) he isn’t passionate about this lady – he refers to her in lukewarm terms;
    4) he obviously doesn’t care that much when he only sees her on weekends and occasionally during the week. Unless they live upwards of 50 miles apart and there is a lot of traffic to drive those 50 miles, there is no reason for that, unless he doesn’t care for her all that much;
    5) the only reason he thinks he would move in with her when she buys HER house is because he wants a free ride, or as much of one as she will allow;
    6) the only reason he would want her to move in with him when he buys his house is because he wants her to PAY for part (or most?) of HIS living expenses, being it the fact that he will now have a mortgage, home insurance, property taxes, etc. to pay that he doesn’t currently have to pay as a renter;
    7) the fact that he stated that he doesn’t want to give too much input into the “girlfriend’s” choice of house (even though she has asked him for it) in case he might not be in the picture later is a SURE sign that he doesn’t love her, and at best, is wishy-washy about her, just using her for companionship, attention, and to feed his ego;
    8) this girl should read what he wrote – and she should run in the other direction as her legs will carry her!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  25. Terry Says:

    What I see is that the guy who posed the question is:

    1) selfish, self-absorbed and self-indulgent;
    2) wants it all on HIS terms – when HE wants it, how HE wants it, IF HE wants it;
    3) he isn’t passionate about this lady – he refers to her in lukewarm terms;
    4) he obviously doesn’t care that much when he only sees her on weekends and occasionally during the week. Unless they live upwards of 50 miles apart and there is a lot of traffic to drive those 50 miles, there is no reason for that, unless he doesn’t care for her all that much;
    5) the only reason he thinks he would move in with her when she buys HER house is because he wants a free ride, or as much of one as she will allow;
    6) the only reason he would want her to move in with him when he buys his house is because he wants her to PAY for part (or most?) of HIS living expenses, being it the fact that he will now have a mortgage, home insurance, property taxes, etc. to pay that he doesn’t currently have to pay as a renter;
    7) the fact that he stated that he doesn’t want to give too much input into the “girlfriend’s” choice of house (even though she has asked him for it) in case he might not be in the picture later is a SURE sign that he doesn’t love her, and at best, is wishy-washy about her, just using her for companionship, attention, and to feed his ego;
    8) this girl should read what he wrote about her – and she should run in the other direction as fast as her legs will carry her!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  26. Terry Says:

    Moxie hit it right on the head when she said (I’m paraphrasing) that some men will pretend to commit and introduce the lady to family, take her on vacations, etc., even though they are not in love with the woman, just so that they can have her stick around to use her and to feel good with the attention she gives him for as long as the guy wants. I have had this HAPPEN TO ME. It was emotionally devastating because the guy (he was 52) was an excellent pretender and went as far as cooking a dinner at his home to introduce me to his mother; it was a dinner especially for that purpose. To any reasonable woman, that would sound pretty “committed” because it wasn’t just taking you to a family gathering where other people will be there; it was especially to introduce me to his mother. Anyway, I agree with Moxie on this point.

    I do NOT, however, think that the issue of how long she waited to have sex with him is relevant. In fact, it points to her having morals and convictions. She didn’t just hop in the sack on a first, second, or third date. She got to know him a little bit and she probably wanted to get a sense of whether the guy is a player looking to use her just for sex or whether he actually was interested in her as a human being who just so happens to be a female. I commend her for that.

    I also don’t think that she is in control and dragging him by the balls. It’s pretty clear to me that she doesn’t want to push anything and she is WAITING FOR HIM to take the initiative. That’s what I have usually done because you don’t want to scare the guy away with any insinuation of making him do the “commitment talk.” Of course, we always expect that the guy is in love with us, but isn’t quite saying it in those words. This is a SERIOUS MISTAKE LADIES! If he isn’t saying it, it’s because he doesn’t love you. It’s as simple as that. If they can ask you for sex and tell you how hot you are, they are able to string three little words together and get it over with: “I LOVE YOU!” It’s that simple.

    So, having said that, if this guy actually loves this girl and what he wrote doesn’t make it seem like it (see my previous comment to what he wrote), then he needs to just come out and tell her once and for all. If he’s not sure about anything with her, then he just “AIN’T” FEELING IT and he needs to nicely cut it off with her so that she can grieve, heal, and move on with her life with someone who actually deserves her! She appears to have many good qualities: morals, values, responsibility (buying a home), is employed (you can’t buy a house without a job), etc.

    I wish this girl all the best. I hope this guy gets his act together; he’s already 35 – time to grow up and become a man!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

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