Guys Don’t Want to Date “One of The Guys”

Name: Lucyguygirl
State: New York
Age: 42
Comment: Hi there Moxie!
I was recently introduced to a man by a mutual friend. We are both triathletes so I was interested in meeting him. The guy and I met up for a bike ride. He did mention he was inviting a couple of his friends along. A couple of hours into the ride, I realized I was not that into him, but I was open to having a new cycling buddy along with his friends that seemed to be nice guys as well. The next day, the guy texts me to tell me that riding was fun and they all enjoyed having me along. He ended the text by saying that his friend “Phil” wanted to know if he can have my number so that we can go running together. I said sure. Phil texts me and we set up to meet for a long run, 17 miles. He was a great guy and after 2 1/2 hours of running, I thought I would like to see him again. He texted me that same day to let me know how he enjoyed the run together and sent me some tips on running and cycling and that he will see me soon. He had a race the following weekend so I sent him a good luck message and to let me know how he did. He responds after his race and tells me the race was tough. He asked me how my training had been going. I reponded that it was a tough 19 miles for me. I have not heard from him since (4 days). Being that we were in constant contact either calling/texting or emailing, I’m wondering if he is just not that into me or just uber focused on another race this weekend. Should I reach out or let him?

 

Most men are fairly in the dark when it comes knowing when a woman is flirting with them. By keeping the topic and tone of the messages to cycling, you’re giving him the impression that your interest in him stops there. You need to switch the conversation to something more flirty and personal.Right now, you’re some running buddy. He’s not seeing you as a possible date for two reasons – you’re playing up the athletic/sporty thing by sticking to that topic, which isn’t terribly feminine, and you’re not making the conversation flirty or personal. He very well might be interested and feeling you out. But you’re not giving him anything to go on. Men, especially shy or reserved men, need  a little push.

Change the subject in your next text. Ask him how his day was. Lead him off that running path into a conversation that’s more personal. That’s what he is waiting to see from you, and that’s probably why he hasn’t asked you to get together. Or he’s just not interested. But the only way to know that short of asking him out (which I don’t recommend unless the guy is just not picking up your signals) is to take things to a more personal level.   Basically, you’re Friend Zoning yourself right now.  You’re being “one of the guys.” That’s not what guys wants.

I was working with two women on their profiles yesterday. Both women made it a point to express their love of baseball and beer or golf and sailing. When I explained to them that most men don’t see that as a selling point, they asked why. My answer was pretty simple: because those things aren’t feminine. That and most men aren’t looking for someone to go golfing with or to attend a Yankees game and throw back a few brews. They can do that with their guy friends. It’s not a bad thing if a woman enjoys those activities. It’s just not something that scores them points in a dating profile or on a the first few dates.

This is the mistake so many women make in their profiles. They try too hard to seem like “one of the guys.” They talk up their jobs, their financial security, all the athletic activities they do, and they don’t showcase their more uniquely feminine traits.

In many cases, the women don’t really have any. They’ve been shutting them down for so long that they’ve atrophied. Or they refuse to sell themselves this way because they think it makes them submissive. Ignore the women who tell you men are intimidated by strong women. It’s a lie. The majority of men are not scared off by a strong woman.

There are some women who are able to use their more masculine attributes to their benefit. They tend to attract what men who have more feminine qualities. (Not to be confused with effeminate qualities.) It works for them. How do you know if that works for you? Well, it works. You meet men on or offline that compliment your personality and energy.

Some of us, though, (raises hand) have to consciously temper our more “masculine” side. :)

Something else that turns men off? A woman who tries to adapt a too-casual attitude towards sex. It’s one thing if the woman doesn’t have sexual hang ups or is sexually assertive. It’s another if she acts like this is something she does all the time. There’s confident (which is good) and then there’s programmed, where you come across completely detached from the whole experience. That turns men off. That’s why men hesitate when a woman proposes no strings sex out of the blue when they barely know each other. If there’s an established friendship or relationship, it’s not as tricky. But if you meet a guy at a party, bar or online and only chat a bit, it’s going to throw most men off. Especially if you “pitch” it.  You know, give them the whole schpiel about how you’re not looking for anything serious and just want casual sex and you find them attractive, blah blah. Don’t do that. That’s a case of a woman thinking she’s acting “like a guy” so she presents herself the way she thinks a guy would act in that case. Why? Because women are in love with the idea of an “honest” guy. Nothing says “I can’t get laid to save my life because every guy thinks I’m crazy” than that speech. Just ask them to meet for a drink and let things unfold organically.

 

 

 

 

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24 Responses to “Guys Don’t Want to Date “One of The Guys””

  1. PhillyGal Says:

    Speaking as one of the women who had to adjust my profile (I’m the baseball & beer girl!), I totally get this. Moxie helped me realize that my profile wasn’t projecting my feminine side. I never would’ve considered this before she brought it up. I’m not used to playing that up per se, because in person I have a very feminine energy (I’m often called “bubbly”). Typically when I meet a guy offline, the flirtation comes naturally and easily. So this advice was intriguing.

    In the poster’s case, it sounds like she may not be giving off those “hey baby” vibes with her new running buddy. It seems that some interest is there (or he wouldn’t have asked for her number; he already had pals to run with), but it sounds like she’s not making making the same mistake I was.

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    • Howard Says:

      It’s a human thing more than a guy’s thing. Women also don’t want a guy who acts like one of the girls. We love it when someone gets where we are comimg from, but the femininity or masculinity we crave has to be there. The wowan who is cool with a guy’s love for sports or the guy who is cool with a girl shopping or emotinal unloading is always a step ahead of the competition, if the main ingredients are also present.

      So Lucy, you are ahead of the competition if you show the femininity that he craves. Hey, you wouldn’t want a guy that’s just interested in doing needle-point with you while you gossip about your girlfriends. You want a man who is a man. So give him a woman who is a woman.

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    • LostSailor Says:

      De-lurking.

      Both women made it a point to express their love of baseball and beer or golf and sailing. When I explained to them that most men don’t see that as a selling point, they asked why. My answer was pretty simple: because those things aren’t feminine. That and most men aren’t looking for someone to go golfing with or to attend a Yankees game and throw back a few brews.

      While I do agree that emphasizing the feminine in a profile, I don’t think it wrong to mention fondness for baseball, golf, sailing, etc. From a man’s perspective, common interests like these are a plus. At the very least, it gives a man an “in” when trying to be creative in making initial contact.

      I love both baseball and sailing; a ball game on a summer afternoon can be a fun date. Call me if you have a boat…

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  2. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I very much agree with both of Moxie’s points here.

    A woman proclaiming her love of sports or a particular team on an online dating site is like a guy saying how much he loves shopping, dresses and handbags and then wondering why women might be turned off. And, yet it’s so common for women to do it. Put aside the women who use a false sports fanaticism solely to meet or lure men (that[‘s just ridiculous), some women are genuinely into watching and playing sports and that’s fine. It’s just best not to make that the main selling point. The idea is to get the guy FIRST with your femininity and then, once you’re dating, you can introduce your genuine love of sports and, if shared, you can enjoy that activity together.

    Good advice on casual sex too.

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  3. dimplz Says:

    I would think Phil is already interested. I doubt he called her just because he wanted someone to run with. However, I do agree with Moxie that she has to stop sweating in front of these men so much, put on a nice dress, and show that she cleans up well. It’s nice to have a healthy attitude and a fit body, but if you can’t show off your efforts in a sexy outfit, what’s the point?

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  4. Kay Says:

    Women want to be their guy’s best friend. Why? Guys aren’t looking that another one of the guys; they’re looking for women, to date. If you want the friendship/relationship to go in a different direction, you have to show that you’re more than one of the guys; you’d have to initiate it.

    But what’s going in with Phil’s friend? You said there’s no interest there, but does Phil know that? He may be hesitant to approach you if he’s unclear about your relationship with his friend.

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    • dimplz Says:

      I think it’s great if your guy can be your best friend. That doesn’t mean he has to hold your purse while you shop at the mall, but that you do other things together : cook, go on hikes, spend time with each other’s families, share in one another’s daily lives…
      I think the guy realized there was no spark and stepped aside to let Phil have a chance. It doesn’t always have to be a love triangle telenovela.

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  5. Arbee Says:

    There are so many gender stereotypes and generalizations here. Women like to sit around doing needlepoint? That’s the craziest thing I have ever heard. Yes, I know what you mean, but it still shows a very traditional view of women that simply is not true. These comments on this forum always make it sound like there is some kind of formula to plug in that will work with men. If that were the case, none of us would be single – including Moxie, the advice-giver.

    I have a friend who met her boyfriend in an athletic Meetup group. She’s all about sports and working out. They do a lot of those activities together rather than him doing them with his buddies. She never talks about shopping and handbags (another comment above) and she never flirted with him when they were in the group. He was drawn to her because she was so into what he was into. He asked her to go running with him alone and she had no idea he was interested, nor was she thinking about him that way. They just clicked because of their mutual interest and it moved very quickly from there. They have been together for almost 4 years now and she is the happiest she has been since I have known her. He is totally into her and couldn’t care less that she didn’t wear dresses when they were getting to know each other and whatever else is mentioned above as a way to “be a woman”.

    I really don’t think it’s about the activities you like. I think it’s about how you approach the guy. You need to demonstrate that you are open to dating, and more specifically, interested in dating him. The issue with the woman who wrote the post is whether or not she is being clear about that (and I agree that it needs to be clarified what her relationship is with the first guy, because guys can be very ‘hands-off’ if they think their buddy is interested). It’s really not about her athletic interests. Phil might have been shy to ask her out for a date but knowing their mutual interest gave him an “in” to start getting together with her. I agree with Moxie that she should make things more personal and flirty between them (or even suggest a casual date). But I don’t agree that she – or anyone – should downplay her athletic interests if they are as strong as they seem to be. That appeals to Phil, so she should just keep them on the forefront but add interest in him.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Women like to sit around doing needlepoint? That’s the craziest thing I have ever heard. That’s the craziest thing I have ever heard. Yes, I know what you mean, but it still shows a very traditional view of women that simply is not true.

      Good Lord. Could you be more humorless? Or do you just not understand the concept of being tongue in cheek? Interesting, though, that you didn’t debate the merit of his other example – sitting around gossiping. Apparently, that didn’t offend you. Probably because you know it to be true. But since you don’t know any women who sex or needlepoint or knit that HAS to be a generalization.

      I have a friend who met her boyfriend in an athletic Meetup group.

      And I have a sister who met her husband while she was working on a construction crew. Probably one of the most “masculine” jobs out there. When I asked him what attracted him to my sister, he said, “I could see what a kind person she was.” Obviously, she had the ability to convey both a softness and a strength. Maybe that’s what your friend’s guy saw. There are women who can do this effortlessly. Others can’t.

      He was drawn to her because she was so into what he was into.
      You have no idea why he was drawn to her. You’re hypothesizing to support your own biased defense.

      But I don’t agree that she – or anyone – should downplay her athletic interests if they are as strong as they seem to be.

      Like you said, it’s about the approach and how these interests are addressed. Talking about a love of beer and baseball is NOT the way to convey that interest. Going out of your way to demonstrate your interest is the problem, because most women go too far and end up sounding like men.
      You have no idea why the guy was drawn to her unless he told you that outright. You’re hypothesizing. That’s not a defense. That’s your biased interpretation.

      These comments on this forum always make it sound like there is some kind of formula to plug in that will work with men. If that were the case, none of us would be single – including Moxie, the advice-giver.

      Am I generalizing if I say you have to be a woman? Because only a woman thinks that is an insult. And only women think that a woman who gives advice has to be in a relationship in order to be credible. Do tell us more about your thoughts on gender stereotypes and narrow minded biases.

      The truly frustrating thing about this frequent accusation is that if I give in and say I’m dating someone, I’m doing the very thing I say that I hate – using my relationships to lend credibility to my opinions. Only women throw around this “insult” and it’s always when something is said that touches a nerve.

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      • dimplz Says:

        You should just always have a boyfriend. A boyfriend is a pass to be as smug as you want while doling out advice. Who cares if you’re miserable and cheating on him? You have a boyfriend! That is the ultimate trump card!

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Or I could get married and then give my husband the heave ho six months later. At least I could say that I got married once.

          Or I could date some attention whore or other defective loser who thinks it’s cute when I tweet all day about “my boyfriend” and talk about him on my blog..

          Or I could let everybody know when I have a date or when I get laid.

          Or I could write weekly posts about how people are soooooo threatened by my “choice” to be single.

          Or I could bad mouth all my dates and make it seem like they’re the problem when really I’m an emotionally crippled attention whore who doesn’t know how to relate to people in a healthy way who trolls online dating sites for blog content or uses men as props in my little personal drama.

          Or I could run around the blogosphere talking about self-sufficient and sexually empowered I am while I sit on my perch in the apartment Daddy bought for me and pays for.

          Or I could pretend to be a savvy, successful business owner who is mainly supported by her husband/family but lets everyone think her cute little pet project…ooops…”business” is a genuine money maker.

          It seems like if a woman isn’t doing one of those things, her thoughts and opinions are invalid.

          Funny how supporting yourself and not leaning on parents or some guy gets a woman ZERO credibility. Nope. All that matters is that you have a man by your side to trot out when you need social proof or validation. What a bunch of hypocrites.

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          • dimplz Says:

            “It seems like if a woman isn’t doing one of those things, her thoughts and opinions are invalid.”

            It’s not only that. If you aren’t constantly talking about your bf, you’re really not worth anything/you’re not happy. Who cares what you think? It means nothing if you can’t brag about what he’s doing for you/to you. Having a bf means someone wants you, and even if you are a mess, you’re somehow doing something better than everyone else because you have a date on national holidays (When Harry Met Sally reference).

            If you’re single, you’re automatically mixed up, miserable or jealous. And fat. Don’t forget fat. Now stop hating on the couples, fatty jealous spinster.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              Don’t forget fat. Now stop hating on the couples, fatty jealous spinster.

              I lulzed.

              Also don’t forget that you’re a slut who offers her pussy up to any guy that asks and no guy wants you. My God, I WISH I had had the amount of sex some of these people imagined I had.

              Oh, and if I do have a boyfriend, he MUST be in it for the sex. And if I made the crucial error in judgment by screwing some pretentious egomaniac and foolishly posting his labored guest blog to the private blog I used to have, then that means ALLLLLLL my relationships there after must be with guys equally bankrupt. Jesus. As though I don’t kick myself enough every day for ever going down THAT road.

              Here’s the skinny, folks:

              I dated someone for about 5 months. We ended things in November. I started seeing someone new in January. Things are good. There. Everybody happy?

              Seeing as though I couldn’t get past the first date up until about a year ago because I was a fat flaming attention whore with a blog, I’d say I’m doing pretty well now. Seeing as though I actually implement and execute the very things I write about in my own life – lost weight, learned who the disingenous time wasters were, stopped holding my vagina hostage or placing too much expectation on sex, stopped taking online dating so seriously, stopped blaming the guys for my failures, started being more feminine and – most importantly -stopped blogging about my personal life, I think I’m well ahead of many and have earned the right to say what I say.

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              • dimplz Says:

                Well, the next time you go on a rant, now people are going to say the guy dumped you.

                In all seriousness, readers don’t want to see that something like “be more feminine” actually works. It’s too simple for them. You have to complicate it in order for it to be believable. BE feminine? What’s that? Wear a skirt? Feign ignorance about cars and sports? Drop a tampon? No, what people of both sexes are attracted to is an open and happy individual who can occasionally show vulnerability. Even more simple? Act like a human being, not an android.

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                • Kay Says:

                  But isnt that the problem, we complicate things? Men dont line up at seminars and workshops nearly as much as we do, and bookstores aren’t littered with relationship books, geared towards men, because they understand that relationships aren’t that complicated; we’re the ones who complicate things.

                  Sort of the ‘anything worth having is worth fighting for’ school of thought, some think, if there’s nothing wrong with my relationship, I have to find something wrong with it.
                  I’m not saving relationships run on autopilot, they don’t, they require maintenance. But it’s us, women, who complicate them.

                  Sometimes, when it comes to dating, it is all about dressing and acting like a woman. Straight men are initially attracted to a woman’s feminine qualities. Although they may admire your ability to run a marathon, make partner at your firm or install a water heater, its your feminine qualities that draw them in.

                  I grew up in a family of boys and I was a tomboy, like the rest of them. But the guys treated me differently (they behaved better) when I wore a dress or skirt. Sometimes, people have to see you in another light to actually ‘see you.’ If you always play the part of ‘one of the guys, you’d eventually have to step out of that to be seen as a woman.

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              • Snowflake Says:

                God, I so needed a big laugh this arvo and thanks to you two (Dimplz and Mox) I got exactly what the doc ordered.

                Also so much for all of us learning from our mistakes. Whats the adage, doing something the same way repeatedly expecting a different result? Gee go figure???

                Nail on the head both of you. Keep all solutions simple easy, common sense (according to some you cannot legislate common sense – I wonder why?)

                In summary, Mox and most of us acknowledge our past, our flaws our mistakes and errors, we learned from them and have found simplicity to overcome our own hurdles. We know we are all human we will always make mistakes but we know we can learn from them, how is that in relation to having a relationship? Are we not supposed to learn and grow regardless single or not?

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      • Howard Says:

        Thanks. Glad you got my poor attempt at humor. Not too many people do needle point anymore; everyone knows that, so it’s just a well worn expression.

        I meet a lot of women with the salsa and hustle and tango and other dances that I do; and I have to friend-zone all of them for the sake of sanity. In the end, it’s just easier dating one person. Some women are cool with it. Attraction is however a funny thing. Some women just have to try to figure that one out. “Why isn’t this guy falling over himself about me?” But in the end it works itself out without them having to think I am gay or strange.

        The brave new world we have, is one where gender lines have been blurred when it comes to activities. You will meet people of the opposite gender doing similar things as you. It’s actually the best way to meet people, and forms a great basis for lasting relationships. Similar interests, like church have always been instrumental in lifelong marriages.

        So the same way women or men of old didn’t just discus the bible when they liked a guy or woman, the same way it has to be done when you meet someone biking like you do or occupying wall street like you do or dancing like you do.

        So Lucy, I wouldn’t worry about things too much. You are in the cat bird’s seat. You are going to meet a lot of guys doing triathlon. The numbers are more in your favor than theirs. Just figure a way to show your feminine side too.

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  6. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Oh of course. Because why would a 43 year old woman ever leave a man? He had to have dumped me. No woman my age would ever walk away from a guy. Then they might be alone! And for the record for all the harpies keeping score? I ended it. This is why I say all those whiny bloggers yammering about “society” being threatened by their choice to be single are full of it. You know who gives these women more blow back then anybody else? Other women. It’s not society that’s threatened. It’s the single women themselves threatened by other women who actually do “choose” to be single. They’re the ones who can’t understand. Not “society.”

    It’s too simple for them.

    I was reading a comment yesterday and I was just amazed at how the commenter had to complicate the issue even though it was quite clear she got the point that was being made. It’s like we *have* over analyze and debate everything rather than just…do it.

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    • dimplz Says:

      “Because why would a 43 year old woman ever leave a man?” C’mon, why would a woman your age leave a man? Who knows when that next bus is going to roll by? That’s just crazy!

      Honestly, so many people hide in relationships because they don’t want to have to work on themselves. The reason you are single or not single is ultimately your doing, and so is whether you are happy or not.

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  7. LaLa Says:

    Good post Moxie. She should definitely play up her feminine side. I think a lot of women think being feminine is just about dressing up or being domestic. It’s not. It’s mostly about personality, temperament, and your “energy”. Feminine women are playful, nurturing, soft, authentic, warm, passionate, loving, trusting, and appreciative, among other things. Play up a more flirty, soft, playful side when around this guy. He will love it. Don’t be fake, just tap into a more “childlike” you. Most little girls are what? Playful, soft, trusting, express their emotions openly, and have a love of the world. Tap into that side. It not only helps with men, but most of the time it creates more happiness and passion within your own life. Most women are feminine by nature, but for a variety of reasons have repressed that side. In turn, they are more hardened and aggressive. Not a good thing in dating.

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  8. DC Phil Says:

    1. I agree with the “make it flirty and personal” bit. I’ve heard it said from other sources that one way a guy can tell if a woman is definitely interested in him, if he’s a bit slow on the uptake regarding flirtatious signals, is if the woman asks him personal questions (other than — good Lord — the dreaded “What do you do?”). Asking personal questions, in general, shows that the other person has more than a passing interest.

    2. I’d agree that too much of a stress on athletics comes across as too, for lack of a better term, “manly.” I usually think this whenever I run across a woman’s profile where she near-trumpets the fact that she runs marathons. Now, I can see a person running a marathon once every year or two years, but not a few in one year. That’s just as bad as a woman who works too many hours. Isn’t she usually training for those marathons most of the time?

    3. On the subject of “strong” women, I refer to one of Private Man’s posts. In his view, “strong” is an adjective best reserved for men. Women shouldn’t use it at all because, like with “independent,” the connotation is negative. “Strong and independent” comes out as “bossy and domineering.” The latter isn’t what men like. Rather, instead of “strong,” men can accept “resilient.” As in: I can take whatever shit life throws at me (and have) and come out ahead with my sanity and dignity intact.

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    • nathan Says:

      It’s pretty disappointing that guys (and some women) are so quick to question the idea that a woman can be strong and still be attractive. Or that a woman who places emphasis on athletics is somehow akin to someone who is a workaholic.

      Frankly, I think people should just be themselves, try to present a well-rounded picture of themselves on dating profiles, and forget about the whole masculine/feminine issue. If a woman is really into sports and working out, I’m gonna find that out eventually. And no amount of playing up the flirty, “feminine” side is going to help.

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  9. Saj Says:

    As a life long tom boy with many male oriented things in common (movies, music, gaming) I remember putting that into my profile and met guys who were thrilled with that.

    HAHA I was just asked what I’m reading and said it’s a post about why guys don’t want to date girls who aren’t one of the guys and my husband immediately scowled in a WTF kind of way. Back to the post.

    Being one of those types that like a guy with a softer energy it did work for attracting the type I want but still many guys of all types thought it was cool we could geek out about the same things. Even dressing in a less flashy way has worked for these guys who like low key girls. It’s a type plain and simple and if that’s who you are I don’t think you should pretend to be more into feminine things if you really aren’t. Own your interests. If you aren’t getting dates it has to be something else or maybe it’s not being tempered enough.

    I remember LOVING NBA basketball and had fun arguing love/hate for our teams or games or sci fi books. It feels similar to a guy saying he doesn’t enjoy cooking (if he does) or gardening/landscaping out of fear it will make him look weak to women. If a girl has these same interests I don’t think it will put her off rather then COOL more stuff in common.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      my husband immediately scowled
      There you go again, not-so-subtly pointing out that you have a man and are therefore better than the other women and using said man to validate your opinions. The feminists would be so proud of you!

      Being one of those types that like a guy with a softer energy
      Yes, if a woman wants a man who acts like a woman, then the woman should act like a man. That is hardly groundbreaking news. OTOH, it’s not what women need to hear if they want a man who acts like a man.

      many guys of all types thought it was cool we could geek out about the same things.
      They thought it was cool because they had mentally classified you as a friend and perhaps thought that you would be into casual sex like most men are, but they weren’t seeing you as relationship material.

      I don’t think you should pretend to be more into feminine things if you really aren’t.
      I agree that people shouldn’t lie about their interests, because it will ultimately backfire. However, there is nothing wrong with a woman emphasizing the feminine attributes she does have.

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