I’m sure by now everybody has seen or heard about Angelina Jolie’s Oscar night pose. If not, see the pic at left.
What started as a lighthearted meme about her right leg spiraled in to discussion about her weight and her health. Of course.
Now, I have no qualms admitting that I am firmly on #TeamJolie in the Angie and Jen debate. I’ve always liked Jolie. The Jolie that we see publicly anyway. Who she is privately is a mystery to all of us. But the persona presented publicly was one that I admired. She had her bouts of The Cray, she dated inappropriate men, she loved sex and never apologized for that fact. But then she did what many of us do and she matured. She stopped being so public about her darker side unless there was a take away of sorts. She became a humanitarian and she became a Mom. The fact that she ended up with Brad Pitt really made no difference to me. I liked her because she wasn’t afraid to be who she was.
What bothered me about the commentary surrounding her weight was that it felt like subversive slut shaming.There’s something about Jolie that makes many women become unhinged. To those women, Jolie will always be the whore that stole someone’s husband. But I wonder how much of that resentment is really about Jolie’s unapologetic attitude towards sex.
It was as if the peanut gallery at large had to find something to distract people from Jolie’s very obvious confidence and sexiness. They had to find a flaw, something that would make her seem defective. That way they could taint her and all women who don’t have many sexual hang ups or attach high expectations to sex. Because the more of those women that exist, the harder it will be for the other women to use sex to get a man to do what they want.
I think it terrifies women to know that all the things they chose to believe about relationships and men were untrue and that they were sold a false bill of goods from their friends and mothers and “society.”
Now, I’ve always believed that most people in major metropolitan areas don’t care what a man or woman does behind closed doors. But I’ll say this. It absolutely gobsmacks me when I read opinions left on blogs where the topic is women and sexuality and hooking up. The hatefulness and resentment and shaming attempts that come out is incredibly jarring. That, almost 10 years later, women still harp on the Joile/Pitt/Aniston triangle is shocking to me. I never understood it.
But now I do.
There was Pitt, married to a beautiful, rich and seemingly wonderful woman. And yet he still supposedly strayed. On the surface, Aniston had what so many women believe makes them the total package – the body, the money, the success. Plus, they had exchanged vows. In front of people. With a priest or rabbi or other type of religious figure there. That was supposed to mean that they would be together forever. In order for him to leave that, he must have been lured away by some malevolent man-stealing slutty siren. Because no man would ever kick a woman like Aniston to the curb.
Except he did. Why? I have no idea and it’s none of my business. Marriages fail all the time and usually both parties are to blame.
It’s terrifying for some women to realize that “I do” or any other kind of promise isn’t a real guarantee. Also scary is that there are women out there who don’t use sex as some kind of negotiation tool. Which is why I think so much of the so-called slut shaming comes not from men, but other women.
With the explosion and accessibility of porn along with the growing number of women foregoing long term relationships or marriage in lieu of casual arrangements, there’s been a major shift in the paradigm.
Women were so proud of the fact that they no longer needed men for financial security or to have children. Men responded by saying they no longer needed a wife or girlfriend to get laid. This has made so many women nervous that they jump at any offer from a man for a “relationship.” As I said in a post earlier this week, men know many women want commitment. So they give it to them. Whether or not they actually mean it is a whole other story.
It used to be that, to get laid, people had to post an ad on Craigslist Casual encounters. Now we can fire up an app, find someone in a 5 mile radius, meet them for a drink and get some sexytime. Or they can just pretend to commit. It’s that simple now. And it has a lot of women very, very threatened.
There’s just something about sex that causes the hairs on many women’s neck to stand on edge. As if that’s all we have to offer and if someone takes that away from us we bring nothing to the table or have no leverage.
Why is that?
I agree it stems from this worry that a lot of women have that their man can be easily lured away by another woman – they believe that men are weak and think with their genitals. It;s horribly offensive to men but women seem comfortable with this belief. It also explains that when a man cheats, a lot of women are angry at the other woman instead of their husbands/SO. It’s less painful to think that he was tempted by some brazen hussy than because he found some other woman attractive.
Women do a lot of projecting and many women relate to JA – she comes across as the “girl next door” and therefore more like them. It was a victory for regular women everywhere when she married the most handsome man in the world. But the fairy tail didn’t last -he fell in love with this goddess and left her. I remember on one board I read, when Brad and Angelina had their first child, people were posting “I wonder how Jen feels?” FFS, They’ve been divorced longer than they were married at this point. I guess Brad was supposed to stay married to her forever to keep them happy.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“I agree it stems from this worry that a lot of women have that their man can be easily lured away by another woman”
I disagree with this almost completely. Some women resent sexually confident regardless of whether a man is even in the picture. A sexually confident woman gnaws at the roots of a less confident, more conformist woman. Same with the way some men resent a more successful man. Right now, we’re living in a comparatively conservative time sexually. Women surrender their own choice to conform tho the dictates of their circle of friends, family and what they see on TV. It’s a little cowardly, but as long as everyone else is doing it, they can’t see themselves. A woman who ignores those social pressures makes that woman see herself as she is and it hurts.
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I love Angelina Jolie, and have no problem with the Brad Pitt thing or the leg thing.
But I do think that’s she’s gone overboard on the thin side. I liked her better when she had more curves. She needs more muscle mass.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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1. Perfect on paper does not translate to happily, forever .
2. No one put a gun to b’s head to leave, walked away willingly
3. Cheating – it takes three, two unhappy, one catalyst. Yes my bf cheated on me, but our r’ship was NEVER “perfect”. I am just as responsible as he is. I could have left sooner than later, I didn’t. No I am not condoning cheating, just stating the facts. Also people change, some grow together some grow apart.
4. Media loves to take something funny and warp it to this level
5. AJ is not traditional and that threatens the sheeple who believe religion/religious views (which ties in to how they perceive sex) is the end all be all. Many have been raised and bred and brainwashed by religious ideals instilled on those wanting to “control” the herd. To me it explains the warped sense of view on sex, sexuality and sexual freedom.
6. As for her weight, seriously, too chunky or too skinny there is never any happy middle is there, and who are we to know her medical standing/medical history/her genetics, her body chemistry really since when are the majority of us physicians/dieticians/nutirionist? My recent health kick had a few women tell me to my face I lost too much weight and I may start to not look “good”. Really? When my own doctor and a personal trainer both echoed that I could still stand to lose another 10 – 15 pounds and I would still be medically healthy. Unless a doctor chimes in sorry none of us have ANY grounds to judge weight.
Just my two cents….
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It’s because women know they are the gatekeepers of sexuality and when too many other women are “giving it up” (loathsome term), the overall value of their sexuality is lessened and so women must bring other things to the table that men want, femininity in particular.
The value of femininity has been denigrated for two generations. It’s time to bring it back.
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What is femininity ? surrender ? thongs? environment tending ? soft voice ? flirting? sexual tension? David Dieda style traditional relationships and gender house roles?
But the woman better continue to earn significant money also…and be solely responsible for any kids, except for $600 monthly support check and occasional visitation when convenient for her ex, the dad… she must maintain her career despite having children. often function with male aggressive energy to earn money in the male oriented business world… then come home and switch to feminine energy…
ATWYS’s logic of women should loosen up and put out at all times, just doesnt take alot of other realities into account, and this is because she is childless. thats a huge game changer in the male female relationship game that she is just not fully aware of though in a general sense she knows some women have children and it looks like it can be somewhat difficult.
But actually its VERY difficult to have and raise children and not a one year or two year process as with some animal species… a 20+ year process. The Lifetime cost to women having children is much higher than to a man, and this is why women have the built in “gate keeper” instincts to find and keep a good man. marriage is a longer term decision, not an animal instinct of the momentary gratification.
Angelina is HUGELY successful and can afford to hire a nanny for EACH child, plus second and third shift help. Plus cooks and round the clock housekeepers, and chauffers. Yes, if we have all that help, raising kids with or without a Brad in our life is much the same. Jen and Brad did not have children and who knows what was the issue between them. She wrecked a marriage, but not a family.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Again, why this: “She wrecked a marriage, but not a family.”
Didn’t Brad chose to leave? Maybe the marriage was already over? People fall in and out of love. I don’t understand why people can’t understand this. AJ and Brad were NEVER seen in public together before the divorce. Honestly, I think they handled it the best way the could. And they’ve been together longer than JA and Brad.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“…..and this is because she is childless” – Excuse me? There are some of us in the world who openly chose to NOT HAVE CHILDREN. Because we understand, respect and are fully aware of the RESPONSIBILITIES of having children. Your statement is completely not supported by facts. You attack us who make a decision to not have children and paint us with a brush that we “do not understand or have a clue” about what it takes, when in all honesty its the exact reasoning as to why we chose not to.
“She wrecked a marriage, but not a family.” – Really, she did now did she? You were privy to ALL private conversations between Jen and Brad and AJ and Brad, wow aren’t you special!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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ATWYS’s logic of women should loosen up and put out at all times,
I’ve never advocated that women “put out at all times.” That that is what you hear says more about you than me. I’m not sure what it is that makes some women’s brains process what I say into such an interpretation. It has to be insecurity or defensiveness of some kind. The men all seem to get what I’m saying.
“She wrecked a marriage, but not a family.”
Oh. I see. So, the fact that Pitt was close to tears on a Diane Sawyer interview revealing he so badly wanted children, and the fact that Aniston found it more important to sign on to crappy movie after movie and put off having kids played no part in that? You know, children. That incredibly important thing you referred to in your comment?
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I don’t disagree with you, but I don’t think this is a switch women can just flip on and off. And I think some women don’t really know how to be more feminine because we live in such a masculine, competitive, capitalistic culture. (http://bbsezmore.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/the-f-word/) Some blogs (maybe this one, or yours, Private Man?) will list feminine qualities or traits, but I haven’t yet found one that lists specifically what women can do to behave and, more importantly, FEEL more feminine.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Same here. I keep hearing be more “feminine” and more “vulnerable” but have yet to find a solid definition. My generation were taught we could be and have anything we wanted. It sure backfired on some of us now.
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A good place to start would be to look at cultures where women are still considered a paragon of “femininity.” E.g., Asia, South America, and Eastern Europe (though not necessarily Russia). Look at how they dress, how they talk, and how they conduct themselves with each other and with men.
And, lest you counter that these women are doormats, consider that, for years, the women on the Russian dating (“mail-order”) sites speak very good English, have traveled, and are very well-educated with masters and doctoral degrees. They were also raised to be more family-oriented and not that individualistic.
The trouble, still, with many American women is that myth that one can “have it all.” Sure, if you have the kind of money that Jolie, Anniston, etc. have, you can hire nannies, personal chefs, and personal trainers, then work and have a husband and kids. And that’s what percentage of people in the world?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Step 1 – Define the various behaviours that are deemed feminine
Step 2.- Research various theories, therapies that Pyschologist/Physchiatrist/Therapist use for any type of behaviour changes
Step 3 – Begin by trying these laid out theories and principles or go seek a professional for assistance.
Step 4 – Practice practice practice. Once you have found a good method to changing what you want to change in you.
The above can all be found on the web. http://lmgtfy.com/
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The problem isn’t the abstract nature of what it means to be feminine. It’s like porn. You know it when you see it. You shouldn’t need a list or an example or a definition. That’s the problem. The obtuseness. When you’re with someone, you naturally feel inclined to protect them and take care of them. That’s what guys mean by “be more feminine.”
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No shit. Femininity is easy: just look at the covers of Cosmo and Vogue and try to look like those chicks.
Some will jump all over me because of the insecurities those pictures inspire in women, but attraction is not subject to rational debate. Most men find a Cosmo cover girl to be incredibly sexy.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Does that mean femininity is a purely physical quality?
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Could you please stop with the obtuse line of questioning?
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Then femininity is just something women should inherently recognize and act on? That’s plausible. So a woman struggling even a little with her femininity shouldn’t try to swim upstream, but try to embrace her masculine qualities and date more feminine men?
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It sounds more like you really don’t want to become more feminine as opposed to not knowing how. You brought this question up several weeks ago and I spent time making a list of ideas to be more femine. But you scoffed at the list because you thought you would be pleasing a man too much.
It’s funny, men have no problem doing things to please a women but many modern women just don’t want to do things to please a man….then wonder why they don’t have a man. If you resent pleasing a man, then that is the issue, I think you already know how to be more feminine. It’s like you feel you are too good to be a woman that would have to condesend to please a man.
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Exactly. Thank you. Its not that she doesn’t get it its that. She doesn’t want to get it. Its a tedious line of questioning.
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Wait…”BruceWayne” is a woman?
She has a male moniker…and you guys wonder why she seems to have a problem knowing what femininity is?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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LOL – That is a briliant comment!
But again, it is not that she doesn’t know, it is that she doesn’t want to.
Brucewayne, if you really want to be more feminine, the first simple step you can take is change your moniker name to something more feminine. How about “Catwoman”? or really reach out with “Bambigirl” or “PrincessJasmine”?
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Nobody likes to lose what they imagine is a bargainig chip. The devaluation of that bargaining chip is also equally distressing. The Angela Jolies of the world seem to threaten that. The women who don’t seem to use sex at the bargaining chip, and to boot, are actually good at it, because they long understood what Dr. Ruth said last week. Dr. Ruth used a Jeremy Lin analogy to lay out the mandate that sex is a team sport, so if you just want to lay there and expect the guy to do all the work, while you lay there judging whether he is good or not, then both parties lose. Trust me, most women are quite aware how deficient they are in this department , and they hate to hear any reference to it.
Women have used sex as a bargaining chip from time immemorial. Men on the other hand have used commitment as their bargaining chip and until women truly wise up and deflate the value of that, men are going to continue to fully use it to their advantage.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“Women have used sex as a bargaining chip from time immemorial. Men on the other hand have used commitment as their bargaining chip and until women truly wise up and deflate the value of that, men are going to continue to fully use it to their advantage.”
Thank you Howard. I got an “a-ha” moment from reading that last sentence. Can you suggest how a woman can deflate the value of commitment?
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For starters, don’t get riled up if a guy mentions previous girlfriends/lovers. Not all women do this, but many do, and when I detect in a women the message I get is “pretend that the only person you’ve every cared about is me.” The makes commitment seem like a lifetime commitment to telling white lies over and over.
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I find this comment interesting D, because women are often ‘advised’ to never mention previous boyfriends/lovers to the men they are dating…because MEN do not want to know anything about “who may have been there before”. Major no-no because it is men who are the most insecure (and judgemental) about such information. THEY are the one’s who want to pretend the woman has never cared about anyone, but them.
Guess this works either way for some people?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Men judge a woman by her character and most men think that a promiscuous women is of low character and is less likely to be satisfied with one man and is more likely to cheat. You can label this as “insecurity” if you want to do so, but men are hard-wired to think like this.
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Simple Anon. A nefarious female friend of mine once told me, “Men are like dogs, and you have to keep them salivating and panting with their tongues hanging out their mouth.” I suppose you have to use a combination of increasing your perceived value and the covert possibility of losing you if he makes an ass of himself. There was a study that came out recently that showed men rarely cheated when they thought the woman they were with was really hot. I suppose they did not include Hollywood types and sport stars in that study.
Even though we hate to admit it, seeing others guys oogling our woman, gets our heads straight real fast. The result of all this is that the man now wants the committment more than you, so it’s now your bargaining chip, not his.
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I think more men need to wise up and realize women are not sitting on gold. …men need to deflate sex as a bargaining chip that women use. The fact is that women like sex as much – maybe more than men….after all it is the women screaming in extasy, not the men. Men need to realize they are giving as much pleasure to the women as the woman is giving to the man..
I think it is funny when a woman gets mad at a guy, and tries to deny sex…the last time that happened to me, I looked at her in amusement and said ” there’s no reason to punish yourself like that and deny yourself sex”.
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My dear Chester. The tactic for men defalting sex as a bargining tool is exactly the same as the one I gave women for deflating committment as a bargining tool.
It is harder for a man to execute, because men seem to natrurally fall into the chasing role. Maybe we men can learn a thing or two from the animals we consider lesser than us like peacocks. But, if and when he does it, it is actually exponentially more powerful than when a woman does it. That’s why those drama males with their facebook shenanigans still bedazzle foolish women.
As the Kama Sutra, which is thousands of years old, says. “Men and women are essentially of the same nature.”
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The sexual deficiencies stem from many women being absolved of responsibility in a relationship, leading to confusion. Sure, women have always had sex as the bargaining chip, but back in the day, they also knew that if they used it indiscriminately, the consequences were far greater than they are now. Checks and balances. Such, checks and balance don’t exist not, save for the slut shaming that other women are wont to use in order to stifle the competition and make their uptight selves feel better that they, indeed, are the “prize” that their families and society has told them for so many years now.
On the other hand, ignorance is still ascendant when it comes to sex, for both genders. I’ve always said that if you take the time in school to teach about sex in a holistic sense, and not just in a clinical sense by highlighting pregnancy and STDs, among other things, maybe kids would be less inclined to go for the “forbidden fruit” and, consequently, get themselves into trouble. Losing one’s virginity is usually an awkward act while trying to deal with puberty. Adding ignorance to the mix makes it all the more painful.
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Oh you are right, DC Phil. Many men are just as clueless. Sex is really a team sport. The problem men have is just getting theirs. Men can be dense at times and women should realize this by now and spell it out to men that they need theirs too. It always amazes me how modern women can be so confident and outspoken about every facet of the relationship except letting the man know that they want theirs sexually and what gets them there. Men are not mind readers. This insistence that the perfect man is the man that just knows without you telling him, has to end.
The problem women seem to have is the false paradigm of men initiating everything. which should be abandoned once the act has started. No need to be coy here to try to prove you are not a slut. You are already doing it. Use your mouth, hands, voice and motion. Save the mind games about your experience for later.
I once dated a woman who very good at the mind games about her experience after the act. I had no idea why she kept imagining I needed those assurances. It really didn’t matter what she did before she met me, as long it did not give me a disease or result in some guy coming at me with a knife or gun, I was fine. I never let on that I knew where she was going, because she was really good in bed. And that sure kept me in love with her much longer than I should have, in spite of all the other issues of incompatibilties in outlook, goals and values.
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It’s sad that, back in the day, those guys who just happened to be lucky with women, or who had good teachers like a father or uncle who was alpha, or who happened to run with a pack of guys good with women, were the ones who seemed to have the least hang-ups about sex. The studious, geeky, and nerdy ones were left empty-handed — when, indeed, they were thinking about how to get girls and not about chess or role-playing games or whatever. It’s worse now because of the new life script that girls follow, coupled with leaving boys out in the cold and shaming them. All lose out.
On the subject of being coy, etc., there seems to be some research out there that confirms that (1) women’s sexuality is more fluid and sensitive than a man’s, and (2) many women still respond positively to being pursued and dominated. That is, chances are higher that a women would be sexually aroused and have orgasms if her sexual partner is confidence and takes charge — if not dominate her in the bedroom. Some women can be the opposite, granted, but this seems to be more the norm.
And, lastly, about communication, though I firmly agree that women have to stop this “man has to initiate everything” bullshit, one also has to keep in mind that for men, it’s OVERT communication; for women, COVERT. This appears to be the way that we’re wired. So, there are some women who can overcome this inherent tendency and tell the man what they want. Good for them. But, for those that can’t (or won’t) then it behooves the man to at least be more adept at reading cue and body language concerning attraction and if the woman is aroused. This takes time to learn, and there are still very few men out there who are teaching it. Men need coaching in learning this stuff as women need coaching in how to best attract (and keep) men.
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I think women must fear it because we/they are taught that marriage and family is happiness. People say things like “A career won’t keep you warm at night,” or harp on women who decide not to have children, and this only reinforces the one true love / marriage / baby track in our society. I personally think people do this to justify their own life decisions and encourage people to be in their big, unhappy family club, but I guess there could be some who actually want “the best” for their friends and acquaintances.
I think people are slowly becoming less attached to this ideal, but very slowly. This is still what is expected of most people, especially women. And if other women aren’t desperately trying to get married, something is wrong with them. So for people who are on the fence it might just be easier to bow to social pressure and convince yourself that getting married and having a family WILL make you happy.
I mean, that has to be it, right? That’s why the Jolie’s of the world depress women. They are evidence that the “one true love” stuff that EVERYONE has insisted is the best and will make them the happiest doesn’t necessarily exist.
It’s like why conservative Christian crazies hate birth control and abortions. It’s not the baby thing – as much as they might like to tell you it is – they’re mad you’re having safe, responsible sex and a happy love life. It spits in the face of all the arbitrary limitations and restrictions they put on themselves. (Argument stolen from Dan Savage, but I think there might be a similarity here.)
I know this argument is only mediocre with Jolie and Brad Pitt because they are basically married and have a whole army of kids. But I guess this applies more to the one true love / marriage / cheating craziness.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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This relates to a discussion I was having recently with a girl friend of mine about the phenomenon we’ve witnessed where women who were “scandalous and slutty” when single suddenly become pious, religious, born agains who oppose abortion, premarital sex and any kind of sexy display once they get married and have a baby. I have seen it over and over and it makes me want to tear my hair out. I admit to liking porn or getting implants and I’m not fit to be friends with anymore, but weren’t these the same women who admitted to letting a guy buy them groceries in exchange for sex and got naked in the middle of the Viagra Triangle to splash around in a fountain on a Friday night to impress a bunch of rich guys old enough to be their fathers? But now they have babies and live Christ centered lives and break their husbands computers because they catch them looking at porn? It’s fear based. They know they used their sexuality to snare their man and they know they are no longer the new, hot little thing they were and they are terrified of those slutty girls that were once them. Jolie is just the ultimate hot, slutty chick and she makes them feel bad about themselves and strikes fear in their hearts because she (or you know, the non-Hollywood version) might lock eyes with her boyfriend/husband and she knows she can’t compete. I think they think if they bad mouth her enough they might be able to persuade their men into thinking she’s bad and they won’t like that anymore. But at best, they’ll get hm to agree with her to please her (and get her to shut up) while they continue to think whatever it was they were already thinking and maybe even fantasize about the Jolies while having sex with their wives.
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Outstanding Jada, simply outstanding! And it feeds into the larger paradigm about how we live our lives, denial. We imagine if we deny it enough, it becomes reality. Our denial touches every aspect of our lives. It includes your husband sexuality, your diet, exercise, staying relavant, getting old, less fortunate people especially those in other countries, bad habits, and a long list of others, even dying.
We have to learn to embrace the things that give us pause!
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I don’t think women dislike Angelina Jolie because she likes sex. I personally admire women who are really into sex. I truly wish I could be more like that but my history of sexual abuse has made my connection with men and sex more difficult. I have several female friends who love sex and share their sexual escapades with me and other friends. I think Angelina Jolie represents scores of women out there who pursue unavailable men by any means necessary without thought to the impact it has on other women. I know women (not my aforemention friends) like this and the wreckage they leave behind in order to get their man is daunting.
I’ve heard the following alledged by Jolie and others. Angelina Jolie has admitted that while Jen and Brad were still married, she and Brad had sex and purposely worked to get her (jolie pregnant). When Brad and Jolie were in Africa, security was called because their sexual noises were so loud that people thought wild animals had entered the hotel. Brad and Jen were still married, albeit may have been separated. According to Laura Dern, Billy Bob Thornton was living with and engaged to her when Billy and Angelina got together. Bill Bob Thorton left Laura without even saying goodbye. Now, this definitely makes Billy Bob a dog, but I am sure that Angelina was well aware of how this man was leaving his fiance.
This kind of woman makes me sick because she does things like listens to her less than sexually experienced female friend talk about going out with a guy, only to pursue the guy herself with the promise of sex until he dumps and humiliates her less than experienced friend! This kind of woman has sex with a married or otherwise committed man in the marital/committed bed without regard to how it will impact on the wife and girlfriend. This kind of woman is more concerned with f*&king than she is with the feelings of her less sexually inclined friends because she pursues their men!
One can be a woman who likes sex but who doesn’t use it as a way to humiliate and one up other women. I think THIS is why people dislike Jolie.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Maybe I’m just dense, but how does any of this – and as far as we know this is just gossip – impact anyone else but the three people involved? And how come you don’t dislike Brad too?
When the divorce was first announced, Angelina wasn’t even mentioned and the stories going around were that Jen didn’t want to have children. They stopped because Brad gave interviews and told people to cool it. As Moxie mentioned above and given he has MANY children now with Angelina, couldn’t it be possible this was an issue in the marriage too? Everyone seems to conveniently want to overlook this.
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My impression is that Jolie gave an interview a couple years after she and Pitt were together where she stated she and Pitt *connected* when they made the “Mr. & Mrs. Smith” film. He was married to Anniston at the time. Anniston did a subsequent interview stating to the effect she didn’t appreciate Jolie giving such an interview. Uncomfortable. Presumption was Pitt and Jolie started an affair during the filming, which resulted in divorce for Pitt/Anniston.
I think that’s what bothers some people – it’s not about Jolie’s looks/sexual appeal in films, as it is her seemingly cavalier attitude about getting sexually involved with a married man because – why not?
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If you’re someone who pay attention to these things, like interviews and the such, then you noticed that Pitt and Aniston did not show up at each other’s film premieres in the year leading up to when they announced they were divorcing. Pitt was also noticeably dodgy when asked about his marriage when he was doing the press junket for whatever Ocean’s Eleven film was coming out at the time.And then he CRIED on that Diane Sawyer interview. Things were not good in that marriage well before Jolie entered the picture. This all happened a good year BEFORE they announced their divorce. Also made public was the fact that the two of them took a vacation with Courtney Cox and her husband the weekend their divorce was announced. That was done to throw off the press because they wanted to try and avoid admitting for as long as possible that they were divorcing.
These two were separated far longer than people realize or acknowledged. While I have no doubt Pitt and Jolie flirted and maybe even expressed interest in each other while filming Mr. & Mrs. Smith, Pitt and Aniston were already well on their way to divorce by that time and were probably separated.
Also? Dern and Thornton were also QUITE rocky at the time that he off and married Jolie Publicly Dern played the doe eyed innocent and Thornton took the heat. FYI…. Dern went on to have a relationship with a married man. That guy eventually left his wife for Dern. So she couldn’t have been that scarred by the experience.
I definitely think Jolie had some residual Daddy Issues at the time she was with Thornton and had this thing about getting with unavailable men. But once she started adopting she immediately cleaned up her act because of her kids. I believed her when she said that she doesn’t need to sleep with a married man, that she had plenty of guys to choose from. She didn’t have to steal Pitt. She could have had any guy she wanted.
Aniston herself has said that she believes that Pitt didn’t cheat. But as far as her whining about Angelina, you have to remember that these people have people that create situations to keep their clients in the press. Aniston is a multi-millionaire. She doesn’t have to constantly be so public about her relationships. She chooses to be because it keeps her relevant. Her career certainly doesn’t. It is possible for these people to keep things on the DL. Hell, Sandra Bullock managed to adopt a child and keep that from the press during the height of the Jesse James scandal. Aniston willingly plays in to the “poor baron babyless spinster Jenn hope this guy sticks around” schtick.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Quite a bit of information there, not sure how it all relates to your topic though.
None of us know what exactly went on in the Anniston/ Pitt marriage, nor why it ended. Your post is angled toward WHY there is some “slut shaming” directed toward Jolie – all kinds of “women shaming other women” theories that you write of on your blog often.
I’m pointing out the reason why Jolie has the *rep* she has amongst some – is media created – in part by herself.
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I think it’s because there are a lot of “homewreckers” in Hollywood – Julia Roberts is a name to that springs to mind – but they don’t seem to rile people up as much as Angelina does. And isn’t it true Jen’s new guy had a girlfriend when they met?
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Exactly! And Roberts not only screwed the married guy but intentionally taunted the wife publicly by wearing a tshirtthat said something like “a low vera” because the wifes name was vera. She was photographed wsearing the shirt and it was plastered everywhere. If she were as insanely sexy/sexual as jolie, women would have hated her too. And yes, Aniston went on to now be with aguy who may or may not have been involved when they began dating. Where’s all the outrage there?
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Where is the outrage? I probably don’t watch enough tv, but I guess the talk/tabloid news shows don’t think such gossip would raise ratings?
I’m not a good judge , I lost interest in most of the actors mentioned some years ago. Take me back to when Pitt did “The Devil’s Own” – I was drooling over him then.
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And the point I was making was that this rep is based on a house of cards constructed by publicists and journalists. i.e. she stole Thornton from Dern. Their relationship was over. Thornton just allowed her to say what she wanted to save face. Jolie has never conveyed any kind of cavalier attitude about how her relationship with Pitt began. That’s how people interpreted her words. It’s like when women pop in here and say I tell women to “put out at all times.” What is actually said vs. what people hear or interpret is often misconstrued or misrepresented and filtered through their own preconceived biases and beliefs.
This is why Pitt and Jolie don’t have any publicists anymore.
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I did write ‘allegedly’. Brad isn’t the topic of discussion.
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Sure but it was his (married) dick going into the slutty, evil Jolie, right? She didn’t rape him. He didn’t trip and accidentally fall into her vagina. There is just no way in hell you are going to convince me that she is somehow more to blame than he is.
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They are both to blame, but this post is about ANGELINA………..
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“It used to be that, to get laid, people had to post an ad on Craigslist Casual encounters. Now we can fire up an app, find someone in a 5 mile radius, meet them for a drink and get some sexytime. Or they can just pretend to commit. It’s that simple now. And it has a lot of women very, very threatened.”
There’s an APP for sexytime? What is the name of this app? I need to get this ish.
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“truly wish I could be more like that but my history of sexual abuse has made my connection with men and sex more difficult”
Sorry to hear that, but some of the sexually abused women can be the opposite. They can become “promiscuous” or sexually obsessed.
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true dat
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Are women afraid of other women’s sexuality? I don’t believe so; however I think no one, man or woman, wants to see their relationships ruined by a third party. Now it can be easy to rationalize and find reasons to justify the betrayal, people create their own narratives. Women get mad at other women because they are the ones they can relate to and expect them to respect the “lady code”. Because let’s face it, men in this cases are not reliable. Brad didn’t wait to be divorced to find a new mate, he divorced when he found a new one. When you see that type of behavior and feel powerless, you can only attack the one of the group that is in your category, the other female or man. it is not that your partner is absolved of any responsibility, simply that in that situation they’re even less likely to see where you’re coming from while someone from the same sex might and feel the pressure more.
On that feminity issue, I’m amazed that people have no idea what it actually is and you have hear all sort of backwardness around here. Feminity isn’t something you do for other people, just something you feel within yourself. Pleasing men isn’t being feminine; being sexually attractive isn’t being feminine; cooking and cleaning for your man isn’t being feminine. That’s being submissive, seductive or or simply on duty. IMO you can do all those things and still not be or feel feminine. You’d have to be ok with whatever emotion and instinct you have to truly be feminine, not follow some scripted or stereotypical idea of what feminity should be. Someone cited Cosmo and my heart broke; if you happen to read Cosmo in different countries, you’d know that feminity is very different depending of where you are in the world. Equating being a submissive sexual thing to being feminine when that’s not who you are is a waste.
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