What Do So Many Men Like To Talk About Sex On a 1st Date?

I have gone on 5 dates this year that were disasters. Immediately (within the first 15 minutes )they asked or hinted that they’d like to sleep with me before even making decent conversation. – Ariel

I have tried before and seem to attract very sweet, attractive men who don’t know how to take care of themselves….not to mention…managing a woman OR men whose conversation is nothing but sexual. – Gina

 

Okey dokes. I want to get to the bottom of this. What, exactly, are these men saying that have ladies believe that they are “just” trying to get into their pants?

Is it me or does this seem to be a very common complaint?

I have a few theories about this phenomenon. Feel free to express your thoughts.

1. The women voicing this complaint are using sex or the idea of sex to sell themselves online. When the man takes the bait, the woman sees that as a sign that he “just” wants sex. Self-fulfilling prophecy at work.

2. The men are horribly socially awkward and don’t realize that what they’re saying is inappropriate.

3. The men are testing the women to see how uptight they are or using inflammatory statements to try and control the dynamic and make the woman vulnerable.

4. These women are picking men based on looks and charm, and probably delving out of their league a bit, and the men are taking them out hoping they can get them in to bed with no interest in anything more. Therefore they don’t care if they offend the ladies with their sexual commentary.

5. These women are all making this all up so that they sound less rigid and picky.

The only time any guy has made any kind of sexual comment towards me on a first date is when I have done something to give him the green light OR because he assumed what I did for a living made me more sexually liberal.

I admit that the persona I have developed has probably forced me to grow a thicker skin and therefore I shrug most of this stuff off now. I also tend to avoid the guys who make their lack of social graces obvious in their profiles or in their email exchanges. Any whiff of too much innuendo and I bail.

I mentioned a few months ago that an ad for Match.com caught my eye. In the commercial, the woman was saying to the man that iPhone users have more sex. The man replied and said he had an Android. The woman laughed and said, “Too bad for you.”

Now, it’s weird to me that a) they would show this exchange at all given how sleazy it could make online dating appear, especially given Match’s recent legal issues surrounding sexual predators using their site and b) it was made to seem as though the woman was the one to initiate the conversation. What are potential users supposed to take from that ad? According to two close male friends, that is a pretty accurate depiction of many of their first online dates. Yet we rarely hear men complain that a woman was tossing around sexual innuendo over cocktails.

I am not saying that I don’t think men who make lecherous comments on a  first date don’t exist. What I’m questioning is how it is possible that so many women seem to have the exact same experience and whether their perceptions are accurate.

So…what do you guys think?

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31 Responses to “What Do So Many Men Like To Talk About Sex On a 1st Date?”

  1. L. Says:

    I have heard many war stories like this also. And I know enough honest and level-headed women to know that some or much of it is probably true and accurate.

    Why do men do this? Well, a few reasons.

    First, there are just some guys out there who are crass or dirtbags … or socially inept.

    Secondly, there are many men out there who are either very good-looking or players … who don’t get turned away very often … regardless of how they present themselves. So what happens? Many women (not all) positively reinforce this behavior.

    Thirdly, many men (and in particular the ones who subscribe to the pick-up artist mentality) have been taught that women want and like this. That women want direct and overt flirtation and that can involve things as you describe. We are told that men who are gentlemen are looked upon as boring and having no edge. I’m generalizing here … I’m not saying that this is the case for every last woman, but it is prevalent enough to be noteworthy. So what is the result? If you’re a guy … and you want a chance to see a woman again that you are attracted to … you let her know that you want to sleep with her (or at least hint at it).

    Begin singing same old tune again: Until women by and large realize this and are willing to turn men who do this away … and are also willing to be more patient with the chemistry aspect of dating … there will be a tendency for the true quality guys who don’t tend to do this to be overlooked.

    End singing same old tune. :-)

    So what I’m trying to say is that on some level, this type of behavior is largely encouraged and reinforced. I’m curious to hear other opinions on it, though.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      many men … want direct and overt flirtation…. We are told that men who are gentlemen are looked upon as boring and having no edge.
      Indeed, this was the impetus behind my player phase: I was treating women well and getting nowhere (“you’re a nice guy, but …”) while the assholes who treated women like shit had gorgeous women practically lining up to sleep with them. So I became an asshole too, and I soon was awash in pussy myself. Lesson learned. I’ve toned it down in recent years because my conscience was getting to me, but I still have to maintain a little bit of that “edge” to keep women interested.

      If you’re a guy … and you want a chance to see a woman again that you are attracted to … you let her know that you want to sleep with her (or at least hint at it).
      Yep. My best guy friend is constantly getting friend-zoned and I’ve tried to explain this to him numerous times over the years, but he just doesn’t get it–and as a direct result it’s been about 15 years since he last got laid. No thanks.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

      • Yuppy Says:

        Actually there is interesting booked call “How to Be the Jerk Women Love by F.J.Shark”

        To summarize, basically women are attracted to “Jerks” because those guys provide women with emotional variety and puts women in situations where their emotions are up and down.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

    • uesider Says:

      It’s a fine line to walk- I don’t talk about sex or flirt in that manner on the first date. I guess i figure the woman that responds to that isn’t someone I want anyway. I do alright in the big picture.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

    • fuzzilla Says:

      Clarisse Thorn, in her book “Confessions of a Pickup Artist Chaser” calls this “the phlogiston theory.”

      It goes like this: “Average Frustrated Chump” observes PUA/players getting lots of women when he’s not. AFC concludes “hey, but…that guy’s an asshole! Ergo, you must have to be an asshole to get women!” (In olden times, scientists thought a substance called “phlogiston” ate up fire when you covered it, then later learned it was lack of oxygen. So “phlogiston theory” means that yes, what you are observing is actually happening, but the conclusion you drew as to WHY it is occurring is faulty or at best incomplete. Women are attracted to confidence and directness, not assholes. If the confident, direct guys are also assholes and also getting laid a lot, then maybe the women they meet are too young or naive to notice or they’re broken women who think assholes are what they deserve. Remember when Moxie talked about the online dating responses she got and a lot of men were like “pfft, that’s TONS of responses! What are you complaining about?” Moxie replied “but they’re no one I’d want anything to do with, so who cares?” Yeah, it’s kinda like that. A “PUA” with a high conquest rate isn’t necessarily pulling in quality).

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3

      • Phoenix Ember Says:

        I must say, your hamstership is impeccable.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        A “PUA” with a high conquest rate isn’t necessarily pulling in quality
        Perhaps not, but quantity has its own quality–and that’s all some guys are looking for, at least for the moment.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  2. Selena Says:

    For the women who’ve experienced overt sexual references on the first date: have you found it’s more prevalent with guys you met online opposed to those you met through other venues? Curious if there is any/no correlation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  3. Dark Sarcasm Says:

    Act nice and respectful on a first date, you run into the chance that the woman might peg you in the ‘too nice, nice guy, friend, too wussy to make a move on me’ zone right off the bat.

    Act with a little ‘edge’? Who knows, but at least you won’t be placed in any of the categories above.

    And believe me, we men HATE being placed in that category from jump.

    I think for men a little flirting is a must if the vibe is right and you want to see the woman again, Lord knows MOST women won’t make the overture for the second date, even if she does want to see them again. So the man has to make the first, and ALL of the moves.

    Some men just get carried away with it….or these women are WAY too sensitive.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5

  4. Crotch Rocket Says:

    1. The women voicing this complaint are using sex or the idea of sex to sell themselves online. When the man takes the bait, the woman sees that as a sign that he “just” wants sex. Self-fulfilling prophecy at work.
    That is at least part of it: many women bait men, perhaps without realizing it, and then get pissed off when men take the bait. More generally, there is something these women are doing that make the men think it’s okay to go for the fast close.

    2. The men are horribly socially awkward and don’t realize that what they’re saying is inappropriate
    There’s a fair amount of this as well; movies and TV don’t really show a lot of “courtship” these days, so where are our role models?

    3. The men are testing the women to see how uptight they are
    Yeah, there’s probably some of that as well. If you flip out over a casual reference or innuendo, I can already see that our potential sex life is going to suck (and not in a good way). Next!

    or using inflammatory statements to try and control the dynamic and make the woman vulnerable
    I’m not sure I understand this; are you referring to PUA mind games here? I’m not sure it’s about making women vulnerable as much as detecting women who are already vulnerable. It’s like when women say “no games”: it’s a flashing sign that a woman is easy to game.

    4. These women are picking men based on looks and charm, and probably delving out of their league a bit, and the men are taking them out hoping they can get them in to bed with no interest in anything more. Therefore they don’t care if they offend the ladies with their sexual commentary.
    That’s probably quite common. I’ll also add in that many women misrepresent themselves in their profiles; when the guy finds out who she really is, he’s not interested in anything serious, so he has nothing to lose by trying to salvage some return on the time and money he’s wasted.

    What I’m questioning is how it is possible that so many women seem to have the exact same experience and whether their perceptions are accurate.
    I’m also questioning why certain women seem to have these experiences over and over without realizing that they, not the men, are the common denominator.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

    • Snowflake Says:

      Well said… role models for both men and women are pretty few and far between, near extinction. It is why we have socially awkward men and women as well as neither gender are willing to be accountable for their part in mix. Its never about them its about the other party.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  5. LostSailor Says:

    It’s a bit of a double-edged sword. If you don’t flirt with a bit of an edge on the first date, there’s likely not going to be a second. If you go too far, many women will get offended, and no second date. At least that’s been my experience. If you play it too “safe” a woman will often wonder why you didn’t have more edge or make a move; shade it too much in the other direction, and suddenly you’re “creepy” or a letch.

    But there are plenty of ways to be flirtatious without going to far, but the line is fine and is different for every woman. Personally, I never “hint” at sex on a first date, unless the woman brings it up first, and even then, I’ll respond but downplay it.

    But there was an interesting exchange I had a couple of months ago with a 30-something woman of my acquaintance, pretty, dresses fairly provocatively and dates with some frequency. Seeing her after a disappointing first (and last) date, she was complaining that he walked her home, but “didn’t even try to sleep with me!” When I asked if she would have been interested after she’d indicated she wasn’t into him, “no, of course not,” she said, making a face, “but he didn’t even try!” This guy didn’t even make it into the friend-zone and she was still offended that she didn’t make a move.

    I guess you just can’t win…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2

    • Selena Says:

      Lost Sailor, your way sounds the most balanced to me.

      I suspect your acquaintance is accustomed to men trying to sleep with her on the first date and the fact this particular fellow didn’t try made her a bit insecure about her attractiveness and sex appeal. This is not true of all women or even most.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

      • fuzzilla Says:

        Yeah, if a guy is “too nice/plays it safe/shows no edge,” I don’t necessarily think he’s boring or a loser, I might just think he’s not interested and feel a little insecure or “meh” where I might’ve been attracted with a little more unambiguous feedback. (I remember one date where the guy was cute and great on paper/the computer screen but kinda “meh” in person. At the end of the night he said “we should do this again…or not…” Then the next day he e-mailed back all flirty “had such a great time, love to see you again…” I was like “then why did you say ‘or not?’” He said “I was waiting for you to say ‘yeah, that’d be great,’ and you didn’t, so…” So he made some weird passive-aggressive remark. He was just too neurotic and inward-focused and hard to get to know. I felt like I was doing all the work in conversation).

        As far as the perception that “assholes get women” or “bitches get all the guys”…I guess that to be confident you have to be okay with whatever the outcome is and therefore at least a little detached, which some people perceive as “asshole/bitch” (and maybe sometimes they’re right).

        It is all a delicate balance, to be nice but have an “edge,” detached enough to relax, yet care enough to choose people you’re actually interested in, connect with them on the date, etc.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Really? You were doing all the work? You were the one carrying the conversation? He blatantly asks you out for a second date and you blew him off. Have you considered the possibility that you’re not as socially adroit as you seem to think you are?

          It seems like a lot of women like to pin the blame on men for their supposed lack of social graces when really they’re equally if not more awkward.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5

          • fuzzilla Says:

            >Really? You were doing all the work? You were the one carrying the conversation?<

            Yes, really. He gave minimal responses and acted nervous and un-interested and it made me uncomfortable. Can't I just not be interested without being "socially awkward"?

            We actually talked about the dynamics of the date and I hung out with that guy in a friend capacity a couple times, but then he got a girlfriend who didn't like him hanging out with me and things drifted off.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

            • Kurt Says:

              Did he pay for the date? If he did and he was talking about a second date, he was definitely interested.

              If a man is spending his money and contacting the woman afterward, he is clearly showing he is interested. However, he probably couldn’t tell whether you were interested. Some women think that all they have to do is show up on a date, but they really should do a little more than that and if they like the guy they ought to let him know in an unambiguous way that they are interested.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

          • fuzzilla Says:

            OK, yeah, I did blow him off and leave him hanging at the “we should do this again.” Because I wasn’t interested. (Honestly, I don’t think he gave me much time to respond, it was like “how about a second time?” and “or not” came out of his mouth in rapid succession and I was like “huh”?). When he e-mailed me the next day being all chatty and cute I was like “huh, was I too hasty in dismissing him, is there something we can work with?” and we hung out a couple more times.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

            • Charlie Says:

              “(Honestly, I don’t think he gave me much time to respond, it was like “how about a second time?” and “or not” came out of his mouth in rapid succession and I was like “huh”?).”

              This sounds to me like he was nervous and wasn’t even remotely sure if you were into him, and his nerves got the best of him. And since you say that you weren’t interested, it seems like he was right.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

              • fuzzilla Says:

                Yeah, pretty much. Finally someone gets it! Really, I didn’t consciously think “I’m not interested, and so I’m gonna punish him and ignore his question and watch him squirm,” I just really didn’t remember feeling like I even had a chance to answer.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

              • fuzzilla Says:

                Yeah, his nerves got the better of him, and it seemed like he took those nerves out on me by lashing out with a passive-aggressive comment. That was a huge turnoff, ergo, I wasn’t interested (up to that point I’d just felt sort of bored and disconnected).

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

      • LostSailor Says:

        Selena, yes, as I said, this girl dresses somewhat provocatively, always stylish, and dates a lot, but rarely has a boyfriend. I think her date’s lack of interest shook her as she was alternately offended/angry and dumbfounded. And while she is a bit of an outlier, she is, in my experience, not necessarily unusual, at least among the late-20s to early-30s women I know.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • Selena Says:

          Well, I don’t and never have lived in NYC – maybe things are different there. I’ve yet to meet a woman who was actually offended a guy didn’t try to get her bed on the first date.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

          • LostSailor Says:

            Maybe it’s different elsewhere, and it’s certainly not all women in NYC. But the women I’m talking about usually have a well-developed sense of self-regard when it comes to their attractiveness. Sometimes it’s warranted–the woman I was talking about is pretty, outgoing, and dresses for attraction–and sometimes less so. I mostly see this, as I said, with attractive women in the late 20s and early 30s.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  6. anonymous Says:

    I had this experience, but I truly believe it was only due to the culture I’m from. I live in America, but I was raised to date in my ethnicity only. My ethnicity is stereoyped for being sexually represssed and being socially awkward. My parents’ country was revealed to have the highest sexual abuse rates in the world. My theory was that men were acting sexually inappropriate on the first dates because:

    1) They don’t know how to act around women. Our parents got arranged marriages, and they know nothing about teaching us how to act around the opposite sex…except to stay away and remain a virgin from America.

    2) Since I have an “Americanized demeanor” (I live on my own, I wear dresses/heels, I don’t come off as the stereotypical traditional Indian woman), some of the men I’ve met might guess that I’m a “loose girl.”

    The minute I started to date outside of my race, my experiences dramatically changed. I do find American and European men to be more mannerly, appropriate and respectful of sexual boundaries.

    You can be seductive on dates, but being seductive is an art where you know you don’t cross the line to crass or appear too prudish. Talking about porn, boobs and acting like a 12 year old boy going through pubery sadly will not entice a woman on the first few dates or get her in bed.

    Sorry.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  7. anonymous Says:

    I will give you an example.

    Look at the men that get the most women. Do you see them acting crass, crude or sleazy? Nope….and yet they still manage to get women throwing themselves at them.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      Charlie Sheen has reportedly slept with at least four thousand women, and “crass, crude [and] sleazy” is just the beginning of how any sane person would describe him.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  8. Badger Says:

    “All of the above” on this list, to various degrees and in various situations. I do find a subset of women seem clueless to understand they are giving off sexy/DTF signals, and are shocked when a man escalates because of it.

    I’m one who doesn’t talk about sex as a date conversation – I think it’s tacky and high-risk, and I think talking about sex actually plays into a woman’s power because let’s face it, women below middle age often have more sexual power than men of equal stature and SES.

    Related: If a woman starts talking obviously and boldly about sex, I usually respond with a blank/non-plussed look, to show she’s not getting me riled up or hot and bothered. I wrote before that some women will use sex talk as a test to see if the guy melts into a horny teenager or keeps his vibe.

    http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/sexual-escalation-as-a-fitness-test/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  9. Badger Says:

    “Women are attracted to confidence and directness, not assholes.”

    Oh for God’s sake, not this again. I used to believe this, but it’s been scientifically demonstrated that women are attracted to the dark triad. In other words, chicks dig jerks, not just the “confidence” factor. And there’s the phenomenon of mis-definition: that what a lot of women call “confidence,” a lot of guys call “that guy is a major-league asshole.” (We guys have very sensitive douchebag detectors that I’ve concluded most women simply lack. Meanwhile, I suppose most women can spot a narcissistic drama queen from a mile away while guys can’t. C’est la vie.)

    Not all women, and not exclusively these traits – I do an OK job of finding women who don’t need you to be a jerk to be attracted, or those who dig other traits for attraction entirely – but “chicks dig jerks” is an acceptably generalized truth. Telling the nice guys to stand up straighter is just only marginally effective.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

  10. kittycontrol Says:

    @Crotch Rocket

    “Charlie Sheen has reportedly slept with at least four thousand women, and “crass, crude [and] sleazy” is just the beginning of how any sane person would describe him.”

    Read between the lines…PAY FOR PLAY.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

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