I’m Not Going Home With You..And Other Lies

My friend B. was in a bar the other night watching a game. In came a woman, by herself, who sat down right next to him. They chatted a bit as he watched the game. They flirt. They buy each other a drink or two. She tells B. that she’s not going home with him that night. When the game ends, the bar opens up its dance floor and starts playing music. B. and the woman began to dance. According to B, she started pulling out some “dirty dancing” type moves. It starts to get late. B. suggests that they share a cab down town. He lives in the East Village, she lives in Brooklyn. She agrees. B. is not opposed to hooking up. Not at all. But she has already stated that that wouldn’t happen. So he tells the cab driver to make two stops. A few minutes in to the ride home, she kisses B. He kisses back. She says out loud, but to nobody in particular, “I’m not going home with you tonight.” B. gets out at his stop and pays the cab for his portion of the ride and hers and he says good night.

His question to me: “How could I have turned that around and gotten her to come home with me?”

 

To me, it didn’t sound like there was a high degree of difficulty here. The woman all but begged him to take her home. When a woman in this particular scenario announces that she won’t be sleeping or going home with with a particular man that night, what she’s really saying is, “Help me justify having sex with you.”

That’s really all we want. We want you to give us a reason to justify doing it.  We can rationalize our way through anything. You just have to give us something to gnaw on.

Give us a reason not to have sex with you and we will take that and run with it. That’s why it’s important not to say or do anything that will make us feel “slutty.” Which is tricky, since so many women like to use sex or innuendo as a way to get a man’s attention. Call the woman on her sexual assertiveness or respond to it by upping the ante and there’s a really good chance she will back down. Don’t take the bait in those cases. Let her lead. Let her think she’s seducing you. Don’t get all handsy or start in with the dirty talk. She wants to control the pace. Let her. We spoke a few weeks ago about how women need to let men think that they are the ones that inspired their more carnal desires. It’s the same thing, but in reverse. Women like this need to think that you desire them, not just sex.

I’m sure that there is all kinds of “game” out there that would have helped B. get what he wanted. I told him that maybe he just didn’t want it that bad and that’s why he didn’t try to get her in to bed. I would bet any amount of money that she would have said yes. Women like this, the ones who try to set themselves apart from other women or who attempt to make themselves more of a challenge, rarely ever are. They just want to think they are. So, if your goal is to bed them,  that’s what you help them believe. They want to think they’re different. So tell them or show them that they are.

As for the women who use this ploy, time for y’all to start owning up to what you’re really doing when you make such declarations. Either have sex with him or don’t say anything sexual in nature. Want it. Don’t want it. The topic is still sex. If you’re not looking for sex then you are seeking validation. You’re trying to get him to demonstrate to you how much better he believes you are compared to other women.

Women need to stop competing with other women in their heads. That includes trying to shame any woman who doesn’t need to justify having sex. When you hear a woman go on and on (and on) about how dehumanizing and degrading it is for a woman to sleep with a man “too soon”, what she’s really expressing is her own insecurity and competitiveness. Not for you? Super. Not getting any offers? Don’t blame us.

Just keep something in mind, guys. These types of women, the ones who need to justify having sex, usually end up being quite a handful. So weigh the pros and cons carefully. The chances that she’s going to be able to handle a casual hook up are slim. You will be expected to consistently indulge her need to feel special.

There’s also a difference between a woman responding to a man’s advances by saying, “I’m not going home with you tonight” and a woman who alerts a man to the fact that she won’t be sleeping with him without provocation. Telling a man who is egregiously coming on to you that you won’t be sleeping with him typically eggs him on. That’s why, when you’re in that situation,  you just smile and don’t react or respond. That, more than anything else, will communicate your intentions. Telling him you won’t be having sex with him will be perceived as though you are playing his game.

To me, the woman in B.’s story appeared to be seeking something. Maybe it was sex. Maybe it was a boyfriend. Maybe it was just attention. What someone like that ends up with is dependent upon the execution of the plan.  A lot of women do this. They meet a guy and they decide they just want to hook up. (More often than not, they don’t want to “just” hook up. They just tell themselves that they do.) Then, somewhere along the way she gets all, “Oh, he seems really nice and funny and genuine. I could see us dating.” Unfortunately, she’s already pulled out her Lambada moves on the dance floor or done too many shots or whatever. Now she scrambles to go back to square one. Ladies, there is no going back. Decide ahead of time what you want and then follow through. Don’t stop mid-way and try to redirect the plan. The guy will pick up on the mixed messages and he’ll bail.

Men, much like women, appreciate consistency. Where there is inconsistency, there’s drama.

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50 Responses to “I’m Not Going Home With You..And Other Lies”

  1. John Says:

    The only correct answer to “I’m not going home with you tonight” is “Ok, your place it is.”

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  2. Selena Says:

    A drink or two? Or perhaps several?
    “I’m not going home with you tonight ” sounds like something a woman who’s attracted – and drunk – might say to a guy she met in a bar.

    Do you really want to change an inebriated woman’s mind about going home with you? Convince her she’s special, not slutty so she will? Oh yeah, that’s the way to avoid drama. Good luck with that.

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    • B. Says:

      “Do you really want to change an inebriated woman’s mind about going home with you? Convince her she’s special, not slutty so she will? Oh yeah, that’s the way to avoid drama. Good luck with that.”

      In my life, I have met/dated hundreds of girls.
      Slept with fewer than that.
      Had relationships with fewer than that.
      Considered marrying four (as in ‘save/borrow for the ring’ type of consideration).

      Three of those four started with a story that would resemble this.

      Sometimes I wonder – do women understand that the courtship plots of Rom Coms are just as unrealistic as the action plot of Avengers?

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      • Selena Says:

        B.

        Am I interpreting this correctly? Three out of four women you considered marrying (but didn’t), were drunk the night they met you and told you they weren’t going home with you, but did.

        Out of hundreds.

        This is inspiring?

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        • The D-man Says:

          I think he means he met them in circumstances many would assume leads only to a one-night stand.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Out of hundreds. This is inspiring?

          As opposed to all those tales your friends tell about how they met the guy they married? Because I’m so sure they all told the truth.

          With the advent of online dating, someone who has met or been out with “hundreds” of men or women is not atypical. Given that B. dated 4 women long enough to consider marrying them is inspiring given how you typically hear about men and women going on a series of failed first or maybe second dates.

          People who actually date as opposed to just constantly talk about dating know that.

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          • Selena Says:

            With the advent of online dating, someone who has met or been out with “hundreds” of men or women is not atypical.”

            I don’t doubt it.

            It’s not atypical for those who haven’t dated hundreds of people to recognize when “the alcohol is talking” either.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              I realize that you’re one of those “let’s take a nuanced statement and try to make a whole other post about it so I have something to do” people, but the post was pretty clear. It said “they buy each other a drink or two.” That’s 2 drinks. But you go ahead and make this about how the guy took advantage of the defenseless drunk girl so you can write more comments.

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              • Selena Says:

                I not buying a woman telling a man “I’m not going home with you” after two drinks. There were more than that- ofcourse, like you, I can only guess.

                I’m not making this about a “defenseless drunk girl” either. It’s about having a “drama free” hookup. Women who enjoy sex and aren’t troubled by expectations beyond that, don’t need to be cajoled,” helped to believe their special”, and other blarney.

                I realize I don’t know you, but I thought you ‘got’ that.

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                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  Did B. tell you the story or did he tell me the story? I’m not guessing. I’m basing the story on what he told me. 2 rounds of drinks. I’ve witnessed women say stuff like this first hand without a cocktail in sight. We all get it. You would never do this! Gotcha.

                  Women who enjoy sex and aren’t troubled by expectations beyond that, don’t need to be cajoled,” helped to believe their special”, and other blarney.

                  You don’t sound like you have any first hand knowledge about any of this. Just opinions. So how would you even know?

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                  • Selena Says:

                    I’ve acted on attraction when I’ve felt it without the need for “disclaimers” beforehand.

                    You?

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          • B. Says:

            Between college and NYC have you seriously not met hundreds of men at bars/parties/weddings/events/etc?

            Keep in mind – the story is a 1-night meeting/flirting at a bar, and I’m saying that over my life this has happened hundreds of times.

            I don’t know how old you are, but if you’re over 30 and the number of men you’ve flirted with hasn’t hit triple-digits yet, push away from the computer and get out there…

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            • Selena Says:

              B.,

              Did you and this woman exchange numbers? From what you described it would appear she was attracted to you. Does it really matter you didn’t “do her” the night you met? Might you get there anyway the next time or so you meet? What am I missing here?

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    • Selena Says:

      A woman interested in a drama free hookup is confident in her sexuality and has no use for disclaimers like “I’m not going home with you tonight.” She’s also not drunk off her ass. All you have to do with such a woman is ask, “So, would you like to go to my place for a nightcap?” And she will answer, “That’s sounds fun.”

      Contrast that to a woman, possibly quite inebriated woman, who makes the disclaimer: “I’m not going home with you tonight.” Translation: I want to have sex with you, but I want you to date me too!”
      Rife with potential drama and expect some nasty texts/calls if you don’t follow through after the hookup.

      See a post from last week to see what that can look like.

      http://atwys.baltimorewebsitedesign.net/2012/05/02/this-is-why-women-fear-being-played/

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  3. nathan Says:

    If a woman says this to me, I’m going to take her at her word. Even if she wants me to convince her otherwise. Screw those games. Like Moxie said, “I’m out of there.”

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    • nathan Says:

      Apparently some of the readership here really likes game playing.

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      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        I like getting laid more than I dislike playing games.

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        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          Ha, yes. I was going to say that I’d prefer a woman who says “no” but means “yes” to a woman who says “no” and means” no.” I don’t find honesty refreshing at all. Bring on the “games.”

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    • Howard Says:

      Even quality people end up in that game playing box, unintentionally. You have to decide how much you want to punish people for poor dating skills. Many players and time wasters have excellent dating skills, that do nothing much for us.

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      • nathan Says:

        I tend to look for patterns, and think that doing so is a good dating skill for anyone to develop. If a woman I’m on a date with generally seems to be making an effort to engage, share, and be herself (as much as one can on a first or second date), then I’m going to react differently to a “no” statement from her. In such cases, I am willing to hang around, push a little bit on the “no” if it feels right, etc.

        When I said “screw games” in the comment above, I was mostly thinking of the women who use game playing as a general mode of operation on dates. Who think lying and teasing are cute and attractive, and/or think that they are doing so to maintain some sense of power and control.

        I’m not interested in being in a power struggle, nor am I interested in getting laid just for the sake of getting laid. I’d rather have less drama in my life and be single, then have more sex and a hell of a lot of other problems and worries to deal with. And from what I have experienced with women who use game playing as a mode of operating on dates is that they are major energy drains. No sex is great enough to put up with countless headaches and emotional exhaustion.

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  4. The D-man Says:

    Another good answer is “I didn’t say you could. But if you’re nice to me I might buy you a drink. I know a good place in the East Village…”

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  5. Eve Says:

    why assume she means more than what she said.
    I’m a dancer, get plenty of attention if I want it. If I say I ain’t going home with you, enjoy the attention, the company or the flirting. Kiss or no kiss. I’m still not going home with you.

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    • dimplz Says:

      I don’t think it needs to be said if the question isn’t asked. It’s kind of on a “need to know” basis that you would offer this information, and assuming otherwise is presumptuous.

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    • The D-man Says:

      Wow, you’re such a special girl. Like a snowflake!

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  6. Craig Says:

    The last time a woman said that to me, it was when the evening was winding down during a first date. I had her naked and in my bed less than two hours later. Here’s how I did it: I asked her permission for each step I took along the way. I asked if she would like to join me for a nightcap with the promise of no funny business. Once at my place, naturally there was indeed funny business, but I let her call the shots. I asked permission before touching each part of her body or before removing each piece of clothing. Lastly, I asked permission before entering her and if she was sure. She ate it all up and loved the perception of her being the one calling the shots. That created a comfort zone for her. The fact is I could tell she wanted to bang me 10 minutes into our date. The key was making sure she was comfortable in acting on that conclusion. And yes, I called her again and we dated for quite a while.

    The bottom line is if a woman feels the need to actually tell you the first time she meets you that she won’t go home with you or that she doesn’t have sex on the first date – she will and she does. The guy just has to make sure the environment and mood is right to allow it to happen. In this sense Moxie is right that such women just want men to give them a reason to justify doing it. A guy accomplishes that by being assertive and making a move, yet also while still being a gentleman – this means not coming on too strong, not being a dick, and not making the woman feel like a slut. Guys, most women know if they physically want you within minutes of meeting you. Just make them comfortable, don’t be an asshole, and you’re already halfway to getting lucky.

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    • The D-man Says:

      A girl I know said the two things she needs are to feel safe and respected. If she’s attracted to you and you demonstrate those two traits, she has no problem going home with you.

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  7. Horace Says:

    I love when people say stupid stuff, like they don’t play games. Grow up. It’s dating. It’s ALL a game. All of it. Every bit of it. There’s a goal. You want to win. You do things to try to gain you points, and (hopefully) avoid things to lose you points. You dress up. You try a little harder to look smart, or sound funny. You are nicer. Smiling more. Usually, you embellish your good points. There are all kinds of things that can stack the game a little in your favor. Good looks. Hair. Makeup. Hit the gym. Nice clothes. High heels. A suit. Etc.

    In general, you are different on a date than you are in your day-to-day normal life. Most of us would never get together if we were all just putting our bullshit out there for everyone to see. People are acquired tastes.

    Don’t be like an over-idealistic adolescent and talk about how it’s all bullshit and everyone should be honest. It’s a game. Get over it.

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  8. dimplz Says:

    Q: “How do you write women so well?”
    A: “I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.”
    That’s exactly what I thought of when I read your reply, Moxie.

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  9. SB Says:

    This is dangerous thinking. It is this type of scenario that a man who tried to “change my mind” is now in prison. He tried to date-rape me, I fought him off (thank you, muay thai), and when I told a trusted guy friend he had me go to the police. When a man comes into your bed and tries to snuggle with you – something you are okay with – but you are worried because you hear of things, but have not dated before, you warn him. You tell him what your boundaries are, including “we are not having sex. Do you understand me?”

    Yeah, apparently he took some stupid advice of the kind on this post. He tried to go further, despite my protests. Frozen in fear as I was, he was able to get my pants off. Finally I regained a sense of what was happening and kicked him off. It took some struggle before he finally gave up and I was able to leave.

    Several years later, I am still dealing with the after-effects, the fear and distrust of men, and only a couple of years ago trusted a guy enough to sleep with him (my real first).

    Please, men, do not take Moxie’s advice on this. My attacker ended up in jail, as he should be (who knows if he is out now, attacking other women). Is that what you want for yourselves? Learn to respect women and listen to what they say. If they are stupid enough to say “no” when they mean “yes” (god, really? Does this really happen in real life?), it is their loss for missing out on sex with you. I know now that I really love sex – when I say yes. I think Craig had a novel approach in seeking the “yes” for each stage, which is entirely legal; just be sure you are not coercing or forcing – such tactics are grounds for a rape conviction, especially if she is inebriated.

    Sorry. Couldn’t keep silent on this one.

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    • Horace Says:

      While, as the single-father of daughters, I’m sorry you went through that… OMIGOD. Just because guys might be willing to playfully challenge a woman’s playful objections DOES NOT mean that we’re going to resort to rape. Jeez.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      When a woman in this particular scenario announces that she won’t be sleeping or going home with with a particular man that night, what she’s really saying is, “Help me justify having sex with you.”

      I knew that someone was going to pop in with the rape comparison. Which is why I intentionally italicized the “in this particular scenario” part.

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    • LostSailor Says:

      There’s a world of difference between aggressively trying “change her mind” and Moxie’s quite correct interpretation of “give her a reason to say yes.” See the difference?

      And, yes, it does indeed happen in real life where a woman says “I’m not sleeping with you tonight” and proceeds to do just that. I’ve had it happen to me many years ago, and I’ve observed it happening much more recently. A man needs to be very aware of the situation and the difference between “convince me” and “NO!” One thing a man needs to remember is to always leave her a way out; a woman who feels trapped is definitely not going to be interested in the sexy-time. It’s a matter of testing the waters and reading the reaction. If you don’t push a little bit, you’ll never know.

      In B’s case, I would have paid the cab meter in full, plus tip; take her hand as I’m opening the door and say “let’s have just a nightcap, then I’ll come down with you and get you a cab home.” If she says no thanks, no harm done, but there’s a good chance she’d have said yes. You need to keep exercising judgment at the night escalates from there. But always leave her an avenue of retreat.

      That said, in this day and age, I would never take home an obviously intoxicated woman. First, because I find obviously intoxicated women quite annoying. I’m no saint in this department; there are usually a couple of times a year when I will have more to drink that I ought to, but I’m not usually looking to get laid during those times. A woman who is obviously intoxicated, let alone sloppily drunk, is a rape accusation waiting to happen. Besides, the sex would likely be pretty bad. The last time I bent this rule several years ago–she’d had several cocktails but was still pretty coherent–she ended up spending the night…bent over my toilet, puking her guts out. Very romantic. Lesson: stick to your rules, they’re there for multiple reasons.

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      • SB Says:

        I was going to try to add that in and realized I prob wouldn’t get my point across; you said it perfectly. As long as there is an easy way out for her and she feels no pressure, then that lets it be different. Good job for putting that in an easy to read post.

        On a side note: I feel really bad for guys trying to date women. These silly games I read about on here are ridiculous. I don’t know any women who do this, they usually just ask their casual guy or date interest “wanna have sex?” when they are interested. Much better, imo. Maybe it’s a generational thing, maybe just the people I know are direct, but d’mn. Cannot fathom having to deal with such BS

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        • LostSailor Says:

          Thanks.

          I don’t know that it’s generational. I’m probably older than a lot of the ilk here, but I remember the same “games” being played in my pre-marriage dating days. I do think that both women and a lot of men–not all by a long shot–are more aware of the games to be played in the dating scene. It’s really a time-tested story: men push, women “resist.” We may be more “modern” but some things don’t really change.

          But you’re right about one thing: men need to be much more cognizant of what’s going on because the consequences of getting it wrong have never been higher or on such a hair-trigger. One wrong move and next stop is jail and the sex-offenders registry…

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  10. SB Says:

    Ok. The readership seems to be going in a different direction, though, and because this is has been so hard for me I couldn’t just keep quiet.

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  11. MrWombat Says:

    Three words gentlemen: “False Rape Accusation”.

    Ambivalent women are not worth it. Seriously not worth it. You only get one life,

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    • SB Says:

      Only, if you follow Moxie’s advice here it wouldn’t be false. It would be entirely in the legal and social definition. How do you guys not get that? “forcing a no” (the word force is right there) is rape. It is the very definition.

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      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        Seduction, which is all ATWYS advocated, is not rape.

        I don’t know what “forcing a no” means, and Google isn’t helpful, but as long as the person stops as soon as the other says “no” or “stop” or otherwise indicates a lack of consent, that is not rape either. The law says consent is assumed as long as a person is capable of refusing or resisting and does not do so. (Capacity is another matter, but that’s not relevant to B’s story.)

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        • SB Says:

          Where I am from consent is never assumed; it must be clearly given and cannot legally be given (even if the person says “yes”) if they are asleep, drugged, intoxicated, underage, mentally challenged, or unconscious. Further, consent given through manipulation or coercion, even verbal, is not legal consent. Acquaintance rape achieved through coercion makes up 75% of all rape cases. Coercion, not seduction, is what this all sounds like. If you can, in fact, seduce a woman so that she changes her mind and actually gives legal consent, then that is fine and desirable.

          That is directly from the law on the books.

          Maybe it is different where you live, but I really hope not. What an outdated and false viewpoint!

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          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            Nobody is advocating rape. In fact, almost every man here has correctly defined rape and expressed their own personal disgust for men who do rape. They’re also sharing with the class all of the various lines that can be crossed and how hyper-aware they have to be in order to avoid raping someone or being falsely accused of rape. So can we all please get off the topic of rape and can everybody leave their need to demonstrate that they can use Google at the door? Nobody here is unclear about what does and does not constitute rape or coercion. Enough with the histrionics and melodrama.

            If you can, in fact, seduce a woman so that she changes her mind and actually gives legal consent, then that is fine and desirable.

            Which is what everybody is discussing. Everybody else processed this post correctly. So it’s confusing to me why you keep harping on this other than it affords you the opportunity to tell your story about how you were almost raped once and how you did all kinds of legal research because of that experience. We read your story. We understand and we sympathize. But the only person here who seems confused about what is actually being discussed is you.

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  12. Badger Says:

    I’ve been seeing a woman who has been polite but firm about her boundaries, and hasn’t wavered (“these stay on tonight.”) It’s been very refreshing, as I like many guys know so many women who put up a token resistance and then all but goad you into pushing past it.

    These women are not to be confused with women who genuinely say “no” and want the whole thing to stop (I’ve gotten pretty good at reading positive refusal, and I always play conservative because you can’t afford to be wrong.)

    Back to this woman – I can tell she’s into me and turned on, but has enough self-control to set and enforce boundaries and not play out some “it just happened!” fantasy.

    As a Millenial guy myself, I don’t know what it was like in the Boomer or GenX heydeys but I find Millenial/GenY women to, generally speaking, have very messed up sexual identities. Their need for plausible deniability is very high, and they tend to strongly punish shows of male affection and investment (the manosphere paroxysms about betatude are not mythical in their origin). Some is just age, but a lot is generational. Hookup culture is itself a symptom of an entire demographic being unable to relate to each other sexually in anything other than cartoonish ways.

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  13. Analyst Says:

    What a bunch of bullshit. Why can’t you flirt and kiss a man and NOT want to have sex with him? Just because you flirt and kiss doesn’t mean you want some foreign dick up in you. Having fun without fucking IS possible.

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    • LostSailor Says:

      Flirting and kissing are fine, as long as you are crystal-clear about your intentions. Because flirting and kissing are, for most people, a prelude to sex, and the guy you’re flirting with and kissing is definitely thinking of more. Flirting is just flirting, but if you escalate to kissing without being clear–both with yourself and with the guy in question–about your intentions, I believe it’s called “leading him on.” Though, I understand there are less polite phrases to describe it…

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      • nathan Says:

        Actually, I agree with Analyst. There have been times when I didn’t want to have sex, but did want to kiss, make out, etc. Sometimes, you just want to explore being with each other without a specific end goal. In fact, always thinking A leads to B is part of the problem here.

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        • LostSailor Says:

          Nathan, I never said that A always leads to B. What I said was that unless intentions are made clear, especially in the early stages of dating, then most men are going to assume flirting and kissing are leading somewhere more…intimate.

          The way Analyst worded her comment, particularly the “…flirt and kiss doesn’t mean you want some foreign dick up in you” is kind of a give-away that in such an instance she’s not interested in sex with the guy at all. Which is all well and good–as long as her intentions are made clear.

          You want to snog with your pants zipped? Be my guest. A doesn’t always have to lead to B, but for most people it usually does.

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          • Nathan Says:

            I would love it if we could all be clear all the time. But its just not reality. Sometimes, you feel right about going forward and then, along the way, it just doesn’t feel right anymore. So, then what? There has to be some room to change your mind. And people need to learn how to do so without blaming the other person in the process. I have been on both sides. Probably more so the one who was ready to have sex, and getting a stop from the woman. But I, too, have done the same at times, thinking I wanted to and thinking better of it. In most of those cases, I was trying to override the weak level of interest I felt, but just wasn’t able to. Point being that even though I might have been wanting sex, I didn’t really want to have it with the woman I was with. But in those cases, that clarity didn’t happen until we were already making out.

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  14. Crotch Rocket Says:

    She says out loud, but to nobody in particular, “I’m not going home with you tonight.”
    Oh, it was to someone in particular alright. It wasn’t to you, since it should have been obvious at that point that’s exactly what she was planning on doing. It was to herself. She was trying to convince herself that she’s “not that kind of girl”. However, if she weren’t that kind of girl, she’d already know that and wouldn’t need to convince herself–especially while in a cab on the way to your place.

    How could I have turned that around and gotten her to come home with me?
    There was no need to “turn that around” because she was already going home with you. All you had to do was agree and keep things headed in that direction. What you did instead was derail her plan by giving her an excuse not to do what she already knew she was going to do.

    Don’t listen to what people say; watch what they do.

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  15. vanderleun Says:

    ” You just have to give us something to gnaw on.”

    Stop with the straight lines, already.

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