An Inconvenient Truth

Here’s an interesting  post that I believe demonstrates how women both don’t want and choose to ignore the truth when it is presented to them.

First, we have a prolonged amount of talking/chatting/conversation before meeting. Then we have the fact that he was newly out of a long term relationship. When a man tells you that he’s fresh off a break up, what he’s really telling you is that he’s looking for something casual at best.  That should be a given. Most people tend to take a break from commitment or anything serious after they end a relationship. That’s the norm. So someone who doesn’t should automatically set off the warning bells inside you. Making this intention even more clear is the fact that he is revealing something to you that might make him a liability. A man looking for something substantive that goes beyond casual IS NOT going to do that.

We all have those things that we keep to ourselves because we are concerned that they might make someone see us differently. Everyone has them. Whether people like to embrace this concept or not, dating successfully requires that people know to keep certain things to themselves.  Yes, that sometimes means being dishonest.  Or, at the very least, not offering full disclosure too soon. There’s a good kind of vulnerable and a bad kind of vulnerable. The good kind involves making ourselves available emotionally and demonstrating how supportive and nurturing we can be. The bad kind of vulnerability involves making ourselves seem fragile, weak or broken. If you wish to have more dating success, then you have to learn to walk this line. You are not obligated to put all your cards on the table.

The people who reveal bits of info that put their intentions and capabilities into question do it for one of two reasons: either they’re socially clueless OR they are  not looking for anything terribly serious. Now, how do you tell one from the other? You give it time. That is the only way to know for sure. The scary part is that many people aren’t even aware of how they sabotage themselves with this kind of transparency.  Those people are going to be difficult to date.

Now, as for his sense that she wanted more than he did. I don’t necessarily believe that this is a case of a man freaking out or being full of himself. I tend to think that his instincts were correct. That’s how we ladies explain such behavior because it takes the burden off of us. If a man says to you that he thinks things might be moving too fast or that you might be more invested than he is, he’s probably right. If he begins to feel bad for not meeting what he believes is an expectation placed upon him by you, that is enough to make him take a step back. Maybe the expectation exists, maybe it doesn’t. Doesn’t matter. If he believes it’s there, there’s nothing you can do about it. Don’t waste your time making it about how arrogant the man is or how he’s projecting. Focus on paying attention to very clear warnings signs that they display, like saying they want to take things slow, delaying the first meeting and telling you they are fresh out of a relationship. Also avoid going public, in any way, about the relationship or the guy. I don’t care if it’s a one off tweet or brief mention. Keep that stuff to yourself in the beginning.

Just by mentioning it, however briefly, you are revealing that that person is on your mind and that you are thinking about him. We do stuff like this for two reasons. One, we want  everybody to know someone has stuck around. Two, we’re hoping that man will read what we write and feel complimented. Again, let’s look at the baseline or norm. Men have a sense of where they stand with us. That’s enough as long as things are progressing and there’s minimal resistance. They don’t need to see it written on a blog or Facebook. The action of going public with such info in and of itself speaks volumes about our level of investment.

Before women say that that is a sign of the man’s cowardice and immaturity, consider this. Seeing a woman’s intentions in black and white forces men to confront how they feel about her. Possibly too soon or before they’ve developed an informed opinion. I believe men prefer to come to these decisions on their own and in their own time.  His choice to speak up and slap a disclaimer on things could strictly be a flight or fight response. Whatever the motivator, if he decides to put the brakes on, he’s being honest.

Just because it’s an inconvenient truth doesn’t make it any less compassionate or credible. Often times when a man does give a woman the truth, many women process said truth through their personal filters. It’s like a game of telephone that we play with ourselves. Only, by the time the message gets to our brain, we have distorted it so that it fits our inner narrative.

The man in this story was being as honest as he could be. Sometimes, that’s all people can offer due to their own limitations. It’s up to us to process and accurately decipher the truths people choose to share.


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60 Responses to “An Inconvenient Truth”

  1. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Guys, don’t feel you can’t leave comments. :)

    • Howard Says:

      Dating is always somewhat of a game of chicken regarding who expresses emotional vulnerability first. Given men deciding committment, it would make sense for a woman to wait for a man to show emotional vulnerability first, before she gets all hot and bothered.

      I don’t care how much money a man spends om you, or where he takes you, or compliments he offers you, or how much he impresses you with his money, wit, education, social standing or looks or how much he ramps up the sexual tension or how much he says he loves you. It’s still not emotional vulmerability. Emotional vulnerability comes from the heart where he shares his innermost dreams, hopes, fears, failures, life changing experiences, loves, frustrations amd exultations.

      The sad truth is often when men do this, most young women (even some older ones) choose to reject the diamond they just found. They often prefer to throw their emotional vulnerability away on the cad who convinces them that he has higher social value than them.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I’m breaking one of my own rules here by acknowledging the thumbs down on my comment. I encouraged people to leave comments because I thought maybe people felt weird going on as business as usual around here in light of my father’s passing. Not to bash the author of the mentioned article.

    • Dan Says:

      The blogger wrote a line I’ve seen a lot over the last couple of years: “I want a guy who wants me.”

      Where did this line come from? Some movie or TV show? I can’t seem to find the social origin, but somehow it is out there enough to cloud a lot of womens’ expectations.

      As a guy, when I read that, I wonder to myself: so you want me to go mad and crazy over you? Or you want me to be that alpha male, or bad boy, who doesn’t give a damn, but does give a damn when it comes to you? It sounds like too much work. Too many expectations of the guy.

      When I see that line on a dating profile, I hit NEXT.

      • Mark Says:

        Tend to agree with this statement.

        Upshot: is you is or is you ain’t?

        I once posted something on a blog similar to this and was told that they were not looking for an argument. I wasn’t arguing, merely pointing out certain third party disinterested points. So people are going to do what it is what they wanted to do. Either you buy in or you don’t.

        Self deception is one of those things that you just can’t work around. So just move on….

  2. nathan Says:

    Seems to me she is fixating on the details rather than the overall message. The guy isn’t ready for a serious relationship. That’s what all the back and forth is about. It doesn’t matter really if he is into her, or isn’t into her. He’s just not ready to dive in deep right now.

    • Howard Says:

      I hear this from women all the time. I even hear that when a man decides he no longer wants to be alone, he marries the next woman with whom he has a serious relationship. There is certainly a germ of truth in all this but it’s definitely not an absolute.

      I still think it comes down to value. Yes, a man ready for marriage will marry the next woman, but that is because she has a higher value, given she satisfies something he desperately wants. However, If a man is looking to play the field, it means he places a very high value on being available for everything that comes his way. But that can change if a golden opportunity, that he can easily lose, shows up.

      I don’t care what situation a man is in, if he encounters a pearl of uncommon value, he will find a way to make things happen. I suppose it all plays to a larger paradigm of us always trying to play out of our league and insisting on getting someone we perceive as having higher social value.

  3. The Private Man Says:

    The inconvenient truth is that men are the gatekeepers to commitment. Yeah, I know, you think I’m beating a dead horse with this constant refrain. Yet I still read so much wailing and gnashing of teeth from women who haven’t figured this out.

    The question to women “what do you bring to the table that a man wants in the context of dating and a relationship?” still goes unanswered or is met with a blank stare. That question is also an inconvenient truth.

  4. Ashley Says:

    And why does she want to be friends with him? Doesn’t she have enough friends? It’s just going to torment her. Crazy.

    • dimplz Says:

      Because she thinks he will see how beautiful she is on the inside and give her a chance. In short, she’s wasting her time by going for the unavailable man. Also, if she continues to choose men who can’t see how awesome she is on the inside, she can continue lying to herself about how every man she likes has an issue of some sort, and the problem isn’t her.

  5. LostSailor Says:

    Most guys with an ounce of self-awareness can definitely pick up on the signs that a woman has overly invested too soon. I agree with Moxie that this guy’s instincts were correct.

    Taking a look at the linked post, there are many signs, no matter how much the blogger tries to downplay them and present herself as totally cool.

    * She was “hooked” after 3 dates (oh, of course, “not that way”).
    * She thought that he thought that she was mad at him when they couldn’t hang out. (That level of Sicilian Logic indicates that the guy pegged it.)
    * She’s stalking his Facebook and making unwarranted assumptions that he’s interested in someone else.
    * She thinks he must have misinterpreted her “sweet gestures.” (Love to know what those were.)
    * After less than 4 weeks of dating, his declaration that he didn’t want a relationship made her “want to vomit.”

    The ladies may have differing opinions, but to me this would scream way over-invested in the relationship, especially after so short a time. I’m guessing clingy and pouty when they couldn’t meet. She didn’t mention it, but I’d also guess they weren’t sleeping together yet, so that would amp up his spider-sense over her behavior.

    Looking around at some of her other posts, I’d also say she’s overly invested in “me, me, me.”

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      That level of Sicilian Logic

      I have never heard that expression, and I’m Sicilian. What is the definition of “Sicilian logic?”

      I agree with everything you noted. Not only do I agree that they didn’t sleep together, I don’t think there was much physicality at all.OK Cupid, where I assume she met this guy as she’s mentioned using that site, is full of guys like this. Just emotionally shattered guys who were recently kicked to the curb looking to nurse their wounds.

      Looking around at some of her other posts, I’d also say she’s overly invested in “me, me, me.”
      The common theme in all of these girl’s posts is that she completely ignores every and all warning signs that a guy isn’t interested and make sit about how the guy misinterprets her or is cowardly in some way. And that is made worse by the people who comment on her stories and agree with her.

      • LostSailor Says:

        I take it you’ve never see the Princess Bride.

        The term Sicilian Logic derives from a scene where the Sicilian Vizzini is involved in a battle of wits with the Man in Black (the Dread Pirate Roberts) over which of two glasses of wine is poisoned. Essentially the “logic” involves a overly lengthy chain of “reasoning” of the “I know you know that I know that you know that I know that you know…” type, unto absurdity.

        In the scene, after they both drink, Vizzini utters the line “You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders – the most famous of which is ‘never get involved in a land war in Asia’ – but only slightly less well-known is this: ‘Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.'” after which Vizzini drops dead.

        Hence: Sicilian Logic

      • Dan Says:

        “OK Cupid, where I assume she met this guy as she’s mentioned using that site, is full of guys like this. Just emotionally shattered guys who were recently kicked to the curb looking to nurse their wounds.”

        I’d say that there are just as many emotionally shattered women out there too.

  6. Joey Giraud Says:

    I could see a guy who’s fresh out of a difficult breakup using a date as an inexpensive therapist. Pretty sure I did that at least once.

  7. Christina Says:

    Although it’s possible that the guy was projecting, based on some of his past experiences, it seems more likely that he picked up on how into him she was. And she really was, all protestations aside. I’m sure he picked up on her needy vibes, which led him to have the “conversation.” The fact that she was so devastated by it shows that she doth protest too much.

    I also don’t see why she’d want to remain “friends.” She’ll probably continue to be more into him than he is to her, and it will only lead to heartache for her.

  8. Mike Felber Says:

    I agree that she was overly invested, & more into “getting” the guy than experiencing things. It is too often folks see a checklist of things to acquire for their emotional or other security-that is nowhere near the terrain of love. Moxie is correct that she, & many ladies, see their own wishful thinking rather than heed simple truths.

    Though I disagree that all early sharing is either clueless, or will likely lead to a bad result. Sure, some things are best to wait on to disclose. But it is actively good to reveal if you were recently in a serious relationship & some indication of why it died. Many are not ready for something serious, or are damaged, & a partner should have basic information to evaluate the situation.

    Yet many can get out of serious relationships in a healthy way, & some can soon thereafter date without it being out of neediness or rebound psychodrama. A woman who told me a situation like that-I would admire her honesty, feel tender towards her, & no reason to assume she must be unable to proceed well. That would be confident & honest enough to trust that her basic functionality would come through.

  9. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “Most people tend to take a break from commitment or anything serious after they end a relationship. That’s the norm.”

    I’m not sure I can agree this is the “norm.” I think people just as often jump from one relationship right in to another, whether you call it healthy or otherwise. Some people are pertpetually grieving over successive break-ups, that you never really know where the new “relationship ” begins and the old one ends. I don’t know if that’s usually the case that grown ups have long periods of grieving and instabiilty after a relationship ends. So, I believe it’s generally irrelevant whether someone is, in fact, just out of a relationship. What IS relevant is that he TOLD her he “was just out of relationship.” In other words, he intended it as a warning of something to come, so she would not have expectations – not as an expression of sincerity about himself or his situation. He is being merciful.

    Why did he do that? Because he wasn’t interested in her. My opinion is that that particular blogger cannot be separated from her person, and you can’t draw general lessons about life from her experiences because of it. Physically, she is so far from the “norm” that it’s hard to imagine her developing normal relationships with people at all, even her “friends.” She is the epitome of the Emperor’s New Clothes situation. Her friends are not afraid of her, though. It’s that she is so far gone that even people who might care about her think it’s futile to try to help her, and they will refrain from being honest with her or trying to help her because they know it will only make her feel bad and nothing will change. It’s hard to believe but she does even seem to be aware how different she is and how that is affecting her relationships.

  10. LostSailor Says:

    Not to harsh on this poor woman, but the level of self-delusion is mind-boggling. Methinks the guy who was dating her dodged a bullet. I know we all do some weird things in private but really…

    • dimplz Says:

      I have strange secret behavior too, but the melted cheese was too much for me.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I was reading her twitter on the train last night and I loved this. Someone wrote a comment on her blog that was extremely well thought out and reasonable. And of course she had to run to Twitter and play the “troll” card.

      His comments are not a poor reflection of me, but of him. I am not sure how this has anything to do with pride. Isn’t standing up to him and choosing to no longer be friends with him having pride?

      Um. No. His comments are a poor reflection of him. Her decision to run to her blog and share with the internet that some dude told her he wouldn’t date her because she’s overweight is a poor reflection of her. But she doesn’t see that. That’s what is truly tragic. She has absolutely zero self-awareness, and it’s made worse by all the other bloggers she chums around with because they all indulge her delusions.

      • dimplz Says:

        Listen, she is very insecure, and even if she were thin and insecure like, no one wants to be a character in your stupid screenplay. Have you watched “Girls?” I don’t have HBO so I stream it from some website, but this is the same dilemma Hannah faces. All of her friends and love interests are pawns in her little game. She can sit and observe and judge them silently. She’s not friends with them for the relationship, she is friends with them for the fodder they provide for her stories. People should be wary of writers, especially if they blog (no offense, Moxie, because you’ve certainly changed this blog in the past few years); sometimes they are just looking for material.

  11. FierceFriend Says:

    Who the hell are you to dissect who the author is and what really happened in the situation? You weren’t there and have no idea. Maybe if you were creative enough to write your own posts, you wouldn’t have to piggy back on other bloggers and tear them down. I personally know the author, and she is the opposite of all of your assumptions. She’s a strong, independent, fun woman. I also know the guy. He did lead her on and give her mixed signals. She was truly hurt by this but has taken the high road and has choosen to see the good in him and they have remained friends. This does not make her crazy or desperate, this makes her an adult.

    She chose to be honest about her feelings to her readers and that’s a very brave thing to do. Shame on all of you for tearing her down.

    • dimplz Says:

      If she’s a strong woman, surely she can handle the criticism. However, I take issue with people misusing the term “leading” one on. Things happen, people lose interest. Unless it’s something like an engagement or something equally as serious, leading someone on is not an appropriate term. We have no control over other people’s expectations, and I’m sure the author should probably know to keep them in check, being that she blogs about her dates, she must not have a lot of respect for the people whose privacy she chooses to disregard when she writes about them.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Who am I?

      Get comfortable. I have a little story for you.

      About two years ago this particular blogger decided to take part in what I refer to as the Great Twitter Protest that another , equally deluded blogger decided to organize against me because I sometimes wrote privately (on a password protected blog) about a third, equally deluded blogger. And that happened because that third blogger had been taking her little cunty swipes at me on her blog because I opted not to to meet and network with her, “the most popular stand alone dating blogger in the country.” But she told everybody she was an innocent victim. Because, like, that’s the story of her life. She didn’t tell everybody about the rage filled email she sent me. Nor did she tell anybody about the comments on blogs she wrote saying I needed to be “put down.” She made it all about how she was an innocent victim.Then she got another blogger to cry to this stupid guy who organized this ridiculous plan and they all sent around emails back and forth about me, what I looked like, etc. (You want to see bitchy comments? Hah!) And then the bloggers got access to the password protected blog and passed it around to all their little friends. Stay classy, kids.

      So Jess allowed herself to be roped in to that pathetic little plot, and started tweeting at anybody who RT’d, mentioned or followed me about how horrible I was. She blindly followed the instructions of those egomaniacs and tried to bully a bunch of people into unfollowing me. The whole thing blew up in their faces and they all ended up looking like assholes. Except for that one particular blogger who started it all, who refused to let her name be associated with it for fear it ruin her social media consulting business. She was happy to let people throw themselves under the bus for her. Especially since that girl only feels brave hiding behind her little red shoes and alias and shitting on people on her blog anonymously. I had never been anything but cordial and friendly to Jess and pretty much all of the rest of those who participated. And if I disagreed with them, I said it to their faces or wrote comments under my own name. Not some pathetic alias.

      I’ve written comments on Jess’s blog, but she’s deleted all of them. So I took my commentary here. Boo hoo.

      So as far as I’m concerned – the minute she sent that first nasty tweet – she gave me license to say whatever the fuck I want to say about her. As did any of the other bloggers who took part in it. And frankly, she’s lucky I’ve been as restrained as I have been. Because I do cunty really, really well. This post barely scratched the surface as to how this girl ends up in the same situation over and over again.

      Maybe if you were creative enough to write your own posts, you wouldn’t have to piggy back on other bloggers and tear them down.

      Yes. That’s how I got to be where I am. By being unoriginal and piggybacking. Awww, is Jess all upset that the tables got turned on her? Or is she the only person who can take to the internet and deconstruct dates? Because that’s SUPER original. I’m not doing anything she’s not doing. The only difference is that she’s the antagonist. Not every, single man she meets off okCupid. If she doesn’t like it, then may I suggest that she keep that gaping maw of hers shut.

      She chose to be honest about her feelings to her readers and that’s a very brave thing to do

      No, it’s not. It’s called self-absorption and stupidity. Not bravery. She tells her little skewed stories based on her total lack of experience and self-awareness and immaturity, and then all the other girls just like her come in with their “You go girls!”

      I’ve actually edited some of these comments just because I didn’t want things going in a certain direction. But I’d be HAPPY to stop doing that. And if Jess has anything she’d like to say to me, she can say it to my face. But she won’t, because she’d rather hide behind her little posse and only share the details that make her look like a victim.

      • FierceFriend Says:

        Wow, you’re still holding a grudge about a stupid Twitter war two years later and continuing to attack anyone who participated it in? Don’t you see that you’re just proving them all right? And if sharing your thoughts on the Internet is considered self-absorption and stupidity, then what do you think you’re doing?

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          No, it’s not a grudge at all. It was to enlighten you on how Jess isn’t exactly in a position to be pissy if I choose to say something about her she doesn’t agree with. And even if it were a grudge, it would still demonstrate how Jess invited the criticism. I mean, in addition to the fact that she writes about her dates on the internet. You trying to make this about me, and it’s not. I wrote an objective assessment based not on her juvenile antics, but on a little thing called common sense on critical thinking. I ALWAYS thought she was a trainwreck, even before their adorable little protest.

          Don’t you see that you’re just proving them all right?

          Proving them right would include behaving in a way that was actually likened to Hitler. That was the actual comparison they drew. A dating blogger and Hitler. I think that says it all.

          And if sharing your thoughts on the Internet is considered self-absorption and stupidity, then what do you think you’re doing?

          What am I doing? I’m not sharing the inner workings of my private romantic life on the internet and having the same situation over an dover again and refusing to see a pattern. Been there, done that. And on the rare occasions that I discuss my personal life, I let people speak their mind. Unlike Jess, who just deleted my comments strictly because they were from me, not because I said anything particularly inappropriate.

        • dimplz Says:

          I’m sorry, but this has to stop. Just because Moxie is criticizing the woman’s blog doesn’t mean she hates her. What are you, 12? If Moxie reads her blog because they run in the same circle, and that’s what she is trying to let you know in her comment, not trying to justify reblogging her work. Honestly, bloggers who claim they are “real” and “strong” are always the first to crumble whenever someone has something to say to the contrary. People who live in New York are usually opinionated. People who have blogs and live in New York use that blog as a vehicle for their opinions. I don’t understand what the big deal is about Moxie voicing her opinion about Jess. Does Jess not want people to talk about what she writes, or does she think that everything she writes is so deep that any dissension must be interpreted as hate? Maybe she’s too thin-skinned to be a writer, did you ever think of that? Oh and you can save the following responses, because I will lay them out for you now:

          – I don’t like it, and I can continue to read it even if I don’t

          – I don’t have anything nice to say about it, and I will continue to write un-nice things

          – I’m not jealous of Jess

          – I am just as real as she is, I just value my privacy and choose not to reveal my identity

          – I don’t know her, don’t care to know her, and she should know she is being judged by what she writes

      • Snowflake Says:

        Preach it sis-tah!

    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      I’m glad you showed up because I’m genuinely interested in this. How do you deal with the “unspoken” problem here, ie Jess appearance? She seems oblivious to it, but I don’t think that’s possible. So, as her friend, do you just pretend that she’s just like everyone else and look the other way? Per my comment above that seems the nicest way to deal but doesn’t really help her? Or do you confront Jess with it as a possible source of her dating problem? I’m genuinely curious how you handle this as her friend.

      • Srsly Says:

        Her appearance?! How do Jess’ dating issues have anything to do with her appearance? A person’s weight or appearance has no bearing on their dating problems. This is an unfair attack on Jess. Not everyone needs to be thin to be successful in love. That’s a ridiculous conclusion to draw. Does that mean people who are disfigured by an accident or have a birth defect or are underweight all have issues with dating as well? Based on your logic yes.

        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          Wait, who said anything about her weight?

          But, yes. Because I’ve lived among human beings on the planet Earth for several decades, if I became horribly disfigured tomorrow, my main concern at that point would be the impact that my disfigurement would have on my social life. I would also wonder how my friends would handle the situation. Would we be open about it? Or pretend I was “fine.” That’s the question I had.

        • Angel Says:

          A person’s appearance has a lot to do with their dating problems. The issue I think Drivingmenutes is alluding to is that Jess is NOT “successful in love,” yet she refuses to acknowledge that her appearance or behavior may have anything to do with it… It is always the guy being a jerk.

          It appears to me that someone who is very overweight, even clinically obese, has fewer viable options as far as people who are open to dating them. Would anyone disagree? And I think when you find yourself in that situation, you are likely to “push” things with the people who do express any interest in you, and also probably get too invested too soon, and likely put up with a lot of crap you shouldn’t put up with… And then you realize you gave a guy three chances to call you unattractive, fat, and undateble. And it’s too painful to admit this may be YOUR problem, so the guy is a jerk, just like the 20 other guys before him who didn’t want to pursue a relationship with you, I mean, all of this assumes you have low self esteem and minimal self awareness in addition to physical issues.

          I don’t know, what do other people think? Fierce friend, you seem to know Jess pretty well…?

          • dimplz Says:

            Absolutely. This isn’t Shallow Hal. If appearance meant nothing, the diet and beauty industry wouldn’t exist.

          • uesider Says:

            Some don’t want to hear the truth. I’ve met many women over the years and said to myself “we could be a couple if only I was attracted to her.” I’m sure some women have said the same about me.

            So we can do one of two things-
            1. Fix the problem: Lose weight, get in shape, get better clothes, get a better makeup job (women of course). Learn what your body language says to potential suitors.
            2. Cry how all the men/women suck and they don’t deserve “inner beauty”.

            Of course, only (1) may result in meeting someone for a LTR.

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          A person’s weight or appearance has no bearing on their dating problems. This is an unfair attack on Jess. Not everyone needs to be thin to be successful in love.

          Did you seriously just say that a person’s weight has no bearing on their dating problems?

          Um, and how many men think nothing of telling Jess that they want to fuck her because she’s overweight? How many men have told her they don’t want to date her because of her weight? Do you understand what it means that these men think NOTHING of saying these things to her? No, seriously. Or Srsly. Do you get that? Do you understand that for a man to make such hurtful, cruel comments they believe that she is so desperate she’ll come back from more. And she always does. I’d hate to have friends who hear stories like this and don’t tell me the truth. I’d hate it.

          Sorry, but the main reason she attracts the the majority of douchebags she does is because of her weight AND because she runs to her blog to tell everybody how yet another guy called her fat. It’s like she’s proud of the low class assholes she goes out with. She’s showing these men who no doubt Google her and read her blog that she accepts this hideous treatment. How many times does it need to happen before the lightbulb goes off?

          She has made herself chum to all of the sharks on those sites. And making it worse is the way she pushes and pushes and pushes trying to get these guys to like her when they’re giving her clear cut signals they don’t want her. It’s painful to read, and it’s unsettling to think that all her friends just tip toe around the obvious.

          Does that mean people who are disfigured by an accident or have a birth defect or are underweight all have issues with dating as well? Based on your logic yes.

          But his logic would be correct. It’s not nice to say and it hurts to hear it, but not everybody gets a blue ribbon. All that crap your Mommy and all your other trainwreck single girlfriends have told you are lies and delusions.

    • Snowflake Says:

      Erm, she posted on the web, last I check the web is a free for all, there is no exclusion clause to say that no one is allowed to critique her or anyone for that matter. She aired her laundry publically, then please be prepared for the unslaught to follow such airings.

      Taking the high road would be to actually not say ANYTHING about what went down and to keep it PRIVATE. Oh what a concept eh? That to me and most people is taking the high road. So by airing everything as she has it does make her crazy. Why would meeting someone ONE TIME have that much of an effect on her? That to me is crazy.

      Also want to “make friends” there are far more healthier ways to pick and chose who to invite into your inner circle. As Moxie states, critical thinking, is a must (along with common sense, logic etc etc). Honestly for me, to develop any acquaintence, male/female into a friendship it takes 6 months to a year. I want to know who they are before I invest my time and energies into them it takes place over time not over ONE MEETING! Just sayin’.

      Being honest about her feelings to who? her readers… sorry being brave means staring at the mirror and being honest with YOURSELF, being ok to deal with what you are looking back at. That is brave that is honesty, what she did was air her laundry like a teenager in high school. That is not acting like an adult.

    • LostSailor Says:

      Wow. The delusion is strong with this one…

      I personally know the author, and she is the opposite of all of your assumptions. She’s a strong, independent, fun woman

      I know lots of “strong, independent, fun” women. They never have to trumpet that they are strong, independent, and fun, nor do they have to have their friends assert this on their behalf or reinforce the idea with constant repetition. My experience has been that a woman that has to frequently claim–or have her friends claim–that she is strong, independent, and fun usually has none of those qualities. They are just a mask, usually a fragile one.

      I also know the guy. He did lead her on and give her mixed signals. She was truly hurt by this but has taken the high road and has choosen [sic] to see the good in him and they have remained friends. This does not make her crazy or desperate, this makes her an adult.

      Lead her on? Mixed signals? I’ve already deconstructed the “relationship” above so I won’t do it here, but this is just more delusion. From Jess’ s post, they had only dated for about 4 weeks and there were many times he couldn’t see her. So, unless he professed undying love and a desire for a relationship, there’s no possible way he lead her on. She fell for him, apparently fell hard, and misread any signals. That she was hurt is not his fault. He is not responsible for her feelings, though by her own account he tried to let her down gently. An adult would take responsibility for over-reading the situation. Frankly, wanting to be friend-zoned by someone who she feels strongly about does have more than a whiff of desperation about it.

      She chose to be honest about her feelings to her readers and that’s a very brave thing to do. Shame on all of you for tearing her down.

      Fishing for sympathy is not brave. And honestly analyzing her behavior could be taken as constructive criticism. If she’s a brave enough adult to accept it.

      I spent a little time over the weekend skimming around her blog. Moxie’s analysis is spot on. Jess makes poor choices and only infrequently takes responsibility for them. Even when she does take responsibility, she tends to go right back and make the same poor decisions again. The Mr. BST saga is prime evidence of this.

      And let’s be honest again. Her weight is definitely an impediment to dating and relationships. Like it or not, the vast majority of men don’t want to date an overweight woman. It’s not a matter of they “should” or that overweight women “deserve” love, too. Deserves got nothing to do with it. Sure, there are men who are willing to do a short-term sexual thing, but I doubt those are the men she really wants to date.

      Her weight undoubtedly affects her confidence and self-esteem, too, and likely is a root cause of her poor choices. If she were actually strong and independent, she could make the choice to lose the weight. It’s not easy, I know. While I was nowhere near as overweight, I got tired of my size and worked at losing some 45 pounds. It took 18 months (you don’t put it on all at once, you shouldn’t expect to take it off all at once). The lifestyle choices involved are generally all beneficial in multiple ways. A true friend might tell her this rather that reinforce her on-going misery.

  12. Angel Says:

    Hey, Fiercely Real Friend, how do you know what signals this guy put out unless you were there? Or maybe you were, eh?

    If your “friend” is brave enough to put her honest feelings on the world wide web, then she should be brave enough to deal with them being discussed. That is part of being an adult. Otherwise, she should keep a diary.

  13. frustrated Says:

    I am not quite sure when it became ok to attack someone just because you may not like them or you have a different opinion. Who are all of you to judge someone and make comments about someone else’s appearance? You are all just a bunch of bullies who obviously need to make themselves feel better by attacking someone else and I feel sorry for you. None of you have any right to tell anyone that they are not pretty or you think they need to lose weight. Just because we have freedom of speech in this country, it does not mean that we have to use it to be hurtful and downright mean. And to the author of this blog, why do you think you have the right to inform people as to why you believe they are single? Did anyone ever ask for your opinion? Seems to me you just get off on exploiting the trials and tribulations of other people’s social lives. Maybe you should get a life of your own and stop being such a bitch.

    • dimplz Says:

      Did anyone ask for YOUR opinion?

    • dimplz Says:

      Also, I have a couple of questions:

      Can you point out specifically where Moxie attacks the blogger?

      Do you think it’s ok for Jess to write about her dates and portray a character that isn’t an authentic representation to her readers?

      Surely, you can acknowledge that she doesn’t know these men enough to make judgments about them and yet, she does so, freely and often.

      Do you not think Moxie should be able to express her opinions just as Jess does on her blog?

      Wouldn’t Jess’ descriptions and analyses of her dates be negative and critical, especially when she makes sure to point out exactly what they say to her, when she knows how it will be interpreted by her readers?

      And finally…

      How is what Moxie writes about any different from what Jess is writing about, in that they are both outlining a situation and offering their opinion on it?

    • Trouble Says:

      Just because we have freedom of speech in this country, it does not mean that we have to use it to be hurtful and downright mean.

      Well, actually…free speech means free speech, which would include the category of speech that you consider hurtful and mean. If you have any questions, feel free to retake your high school civics class.

      • frustrated Says:

        Rereade what I said…I said we don’t HAVE to be mean not that we couldn’t. Perhaps you should retake elementary language arts to learn the difference.

        • Snowflake Says:

          Jess does NOT HAVE TO rip apart all the men she dates (that she hardly even knows) either. Shoe on the other foot and all,…. whats good for the goose… etc etc Keep trying to defend her because your efforts are being built on a such poor foundations. ie you are defending her right to rip people apart however the same brush she paints people with lo-behold can NEVER be used on her….

        • LostSailor Says:

          Truth is sometimes painful, especially for those with a vested interest in avoiding it. Lord knows there have been times when I’ve had to take a good, hard-nosed look at myself over the years. It’s often harsh.

          You say it’s meanness. I say it’s the keys to freedom and happiness.

          • dimplz Says:

            I remember my cousin’s boyfriend telling me years ago that I was picky. Everyone told me, but his carried the most weight because it was the first time he told me anything critical. I denied it, but it was true. I was able to relax a lot of my “standards,” because if I’m hearing it from a guy, and one who’s usually not one to pry, I knew he was saying it to be helpful. I didn’t tell anyone that he told me that. It wouldn’t have mattered anyway because they all would have agreed anyway. Thank God I have people around me who are brutally honest. I’d rather have that kind of friend than ones like Jess’ because I was actually able to give myself a chance when it came to dating and not listen to people who tell me I “deserve” more. I don’t “deserve” anything. I’m grateful for every blessing and person who has come into my life, but I’ve done nothing extraordinary to deserve any of my blessings. I just thank God for them and keep it moving.

          • Trouble Says:

            You say it’s meanness. I say it’s the keys to freedom and happiness.

            So much truth in this. I am happily married because of Moxie’s “meanness.”

            It’s not kind to allow people to continue to flounder in their delusions and hurt themselves repeatedly when you have it within your power to tell them the truth about the mistakes they are making. Sometimes, the truth stings, but it also can set you free.

    • Snowflake Says:

      Frustrated, I do not see your point(s), please state examples of the following questions…

      How are we/Moxie attacking Jess?
      How are we judging Jess? How can you say Jess has not been judging EVERYONE she blogs about then come here crying we are judging her?
      How are we/Moxie bullying her? She is completely within her means to come here and “defend” herself.
      We never said she is not pretty, stating she needs to lose weight to up her calibre of quality men is a fact, ANY DOCTOR, GP/Pysch/Therapist would conclude the same hypothesis.
      Hurtful and mean you say? Please state actual examples of us name calling, berating, being callous etc.
      Erm she has a right to blog about WHATEVER SHE WANTS, just like Jess uses her blog as her soap box, Moxie uses her blog to point out the bloody obvious elephant in the room that people are so apt to want to not see. Just sayin.
      Exploiting someones life that is kept private is exploitation. “Exploiting” – term used loosely someone who puts their whole life on display is NOT exploitation but just taking it as an example of life and learning what to do or in this case what not to do.

      Feel free to critique with proper substantiated facts and proper examples.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I am not quite sure when it became ok to attack someone just because you may not like them or you have a different opinion.

      Oh, I agree. But if you feel that way, then why are you here defending Jess?

      Who are all of you to judge someone and make comments about someone else’s appearance?

      Again I’ll ask you , if you feel so strongly about people critiquing others they barely know, why are you defending Jess? Because she does the same thing. Every post is about critiquing the men she chooses to go out with. Every man she meets is open to being deconstructed on her blog. How is this any different other than a rather sensitive, yet glaringly obvious, topic was raised?

      Just because we have freedom of speech in this country, it does not mean that we have to use it to be hurtful and downright mean.

      You only see it as mean because it’s a sensitive topic. But isn’t height a sensitive topic for men? Jess critique’s that. I deleted or edited a lot of comments that I felt crossed a line. But I’m not going to delete comments that are relevant questions or observations.

      And to the author of this blog, why do you think you have the right to inform people as to why you believe they are single?

      Because I, like Jess and all the rest, can present myself any way I choose. I don’t need to ask for permission to do what I do.

      Did anyone ever ask for your opinion?

      Well, many people do. That’s what The Submit a Dating Question option is for. But if Jess chooses to put a story out to the public, she should expect that people might question her. And if she’s going to censor people for no real reason, she should expect that people might choose to take their opinions somewhere else. The original post barely mentioned Jess. It was an objective analysis of a common dating situation, broken down to highlight where many people make mistakes.

      Seems to me you just get off on exploiting the trials and tribulations of other people’s social lives.

      Well, no. THEY do that by writing about them for attention. Aren’t *they* exploiting people that they date by telling their one sided view of the story and opening these men up to criticism?

      Maybe you should get a life of your own and stop being such a bitch.

      I have a life and a relationship of my own. I just don’t write about it. Why? Because I’m not going to subject myself or him to the judgment of strangers.

      You can’t answer any of these questions, can you? You’re intent upon presenting Jess as a victim when she’ not. Instead of infantilizing and enabling her, why don’t you let Jess be a big girl and defend herself? What is it with you people and your need to call in the dogs while you all hide behind your laptops? Fight your own battles and be adults.

    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      Again there is horror and indignation that someone might actually tell Jess truthfully why she is unsuccessful. The reason you, her friends, are reacting this way is because we have exposed the fact that YOU, her friends, are dishonest with her. And, you know that you can’t be honest with her because her issues run deeper than her weight, and are probably unfixable. Direct your pity to Jess where it belongs. I can’t speak for anyone else here but I see right through you.

      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        The reason you, her friends, are reacting this way is because we have exposed the fact that YOU, her friends, are dishonest with her.

        But that’s because they, her friends, are no more evolved or enlightened than Jess is. Listen to them. These people genuinely do not see the hypocrisy in all of this. They honestly believe that they are in the right to sit on their blogs and make fun of/criticize men they date, but anybody who critiques them is wrong. These people have been told what they wanted to hear for so long, they don’t even know what is real anymore. That’s why all this date deconstructing is so dangerous. Women flock to these blogs because they want all their distorted and negative beliefs validated. It’s confirmation bias at its finest.

        • dimplz Says:

          They think if they encourage her enough and she finds a man, she will have succeeded without having to change anything about herself. God forbid she do something to make her life easier.

    • uesider Says:

      “None of you have any right to tell anyone that they are not pretty or you think they need to lose weight. ”

      Actually, since you post everything on your blog and attention whore here, we kinda’ do. It is a dating advice blog after all.

      Don’t act all indignant- reality is YOU judge men just like they judge you. We all do. You’re not above it. You’re not special. The sooner you internalize it and fix things, the sooner you will meet someone.

  14. Jada Says:

    Retorts such as “Stop being such a hater,” or “bitches be jealous” are the bastion of the weak and people who refuse to be accountable for their own behavior. The first problem with the retorts is that they shut down any possibility of a constructive dialog. If you try and reply and explain why you are not a hater or jealous, then you are defensive. There is no possible way to disagree with them, you’re just jealous! Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo! The other problem is it immediately deflects the problem onto the responder and makes it about their reaction to the original situation and completely ignores the actual problem at hand. I dare the bloggers to go 1 month without using any of the variations on the above non-responses and actually take the time to consider disagreements and criticisms and reflect on what is being said instead of trying to justify their behavior. It’ll be the most enlightening and productive month of your blogging “career.”

    How can someone be so completely oblivious to their own contributions to a specific problem? For Gods sake, if every single guy you date or meet calls you fat, is rude, cruel or otherwise unacceptable [and it certainly seems like they are] how can you possibly believe it is the other guys fault? Every single other guy? Sweet Jeebus, they call you fat because you are FAT! They disrespect you because you ALLOW it! They continue to mistreat you because you go back for MORE! The problem is YOU! A wise(r) person once told me, “Jada, if you’re eating a shit sandwich it’s because you ORDERED IT!” Put down the shit sandwich (melted cheese on a plate) put the computer away and change your life. Fuck. Me.

    And yes, fat does limit your dating options tremendously. Lots of things limit your dating options, but nothing does for a woman so much as her appearance. Sorry, that’s just an inconvenient truth. I had my own rate limiting factors when single [single mom, poor, crappy dead end job, etc.] so you better believe I optimized my advantages. Losing weight isn’t easy, but it’s a no brainer must do. And any “friend” who tells you otherwise and that it doesn’t matter, is no real friend. Or is as equally delusional. A real friend will tell you the truth and will support you when you make difficult changes in your life.

  15. S Says:

    I read all the posts including Jess’s blogs (It’s really slow at work today) The reason this guy doesn’t want to date her or the reason why she is single IS because she is so overweight. She isn’t “thick” like she calls herself, she is really fat. I’m fat and she is twice if not three times my size. She goes on to say, she eats melted cheese and doesn’t shower for three days .. Who wants to date that? I think Marathon man was right. Yes you will make him fat. Always sitting around, not working out, and eating crap.(I know this because your size tells me you are not active and you take in more calories than you burn) Plus Marathon man obviously cares about the way he looks and eats healthy you guys are not compatible. He sent you sexual text messages because I’m pretty sure he was bored, horny and anyone open to jacking off to sexual text messages .. He doesn’t have to picture you while he does it. Reading this girl’s posts I don’t see how he was leading her on at all. He was mean because she gave him that opening.

    Admitting information on a blog means people will comment. Not all those comments will be from your dick-riders. This comment might not get posted because Moxie doesn’t want negativity. (Are we still calling her Moxie?) But I liked cunty Moxie.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I don’t want unnecessarily mean comments, is all. Like I said, I edited and deleted a lot of comments that I felt cross the line. But I’m not going to remove comments that raise a very relevant issue as it pertains to her situation.

      What she doesn’t seem to understand is that I’d guess 90% of the men that go out with her do it for sex or to get someone to buy them drinks or a meal. She once wrote a post about how a guy said in his profile that he was six feet tall and then he showed up to the date and couldn’t have been more than five ten. And so, because of that lie, she wasn’t going to see him again. I thought, “Seriously?? You’re turning people away over something that insignificant?” I just don’t get it.

      You need to understand that this particular blogger and the clique of bloggers she runs with all sort of swarm around each other when one of them runs to twitter with the “hater” mating call. Their blogs get few comments as it is. They don’t know how to handle criticism because they always delete anything that challenges them or calls them out. They’ve haven’t developed a thick skin needed to deal with such commentary because they do anything they can to avoid it.

  16. Stacey Says:

    If Jess doesn’t want people to comment on her weight then she shouldn’t make her weight the focus of a post. She went there first. If she does care then she shouldn’t be writing blog posts about how men tell her to her face that they think she’s too overweight to date. You can’t put something like that out there and not expect people to comment on it.

    I don’t know how someone can call themselves a writer and blog for as long as she has and not realized that.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Well, yes, exactly. She was the one to make her weight a topic of discussion. And she’s done it several times. Then she cried foul and called in her friends to defend her. By being so open about it, she was saying that it was open for discussion.

  17. Gorb Says:


    This is all social grooming behavior, and every chimp and hominid for the last 5 million years has done it.

    Sadly, we still seek this validation.

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