Was He Too Casual About The Sex?

Name: CK
Age: 37
State: NYC
Question:  I broke up with my ex about three months ago and have decided to start dating again. I’m not ready for a serious relationship at this point and am just looking to date and hook-up. Emailed a man on Ok Cupid who was clear about not looking for anything serious. His profile said he was interested in short term dating, new friends and casual sex. I told him we seemed to be looking for the same thing. We set up a night to meet. The day before our date he emailed me and asked if we could meet in my neighborhood. He explained that his apartment was currently undergoing repairs and wasn’t fit for company. I didn’t say anything sexual to him or in my profile. Now I’m not sure I want to meet him. What do you think?

 

I think he assumed, when you said you and he were looking for the same thing, that you were looking for casual sex. That is probably why he felt so comfortable being presumptuous. In theory, if all you’re looking for is to casually date and hook-up, then I don’t see why you wouldn’t go out with this guy.For future reference, telling someone that you believe you and they are looking for the same thing is unspoken code for “I want sex.”

Since you’re hesitant, let’s examine the possible reasons why:

1. You don’t really want anything casual - You should probably understand that there is no such thing as “casual dating” that doesn’t involve sex. No guy is going to hang out with you and hold hands and neck on the couch. So if you don’t plan on having sex, stay home. If you are looking for something casual, all those adorable rules about who pays and how many dates you wait should not be applied.

2. You’re not ready to date at all - I understand the need to get back on the horse. But keep in mind that you’re dealing with other people’s time, money and possible emotions. If you find a reason to bail on every possible date, you’re not ready. Don’t waste people’s time.

3. You were turned off by how casual he seemed about sex

To me, his behavior says, “I do this all the time.” That would bother me. The expectation of sex wouldn’t make me uncomfortable. It would be the expression of the expectation that left a bad taste in my mouth. (Hah! Get it???)

A sign like that, to me, is indicative of other possible interpersonal issues. It would also say to me that this guy really didn’t care if he presented himself in a negative light. Let’s be honest, even if you are just looking for a casual hook-up, there’s still the possibility that there won’t be mutual physical attraction once you meet. That he was already planning where you two would go after the date tells me, or at least suggests, that this guy was going to have sex with you whether he was attracted to you or not. He should have just gone with it and let things unfold organically. Instead he pretty much put  a disclaimer on the date. You already know where he expected it to end up. No mystery, no excitement. That’s way too cut and dry for me.

This is where critical thinking should be employed. If you find yourself in a situation like this you need to ask yourself why someone would feel so comfortable having such expectations and expressing them. Someone who is what I call a “good dater” would be more delicate. They’d know that they might be shooting themselves in the foot. You want to go out with the “good daters” and avoid the “bad daters.” The bad daters are going to burn you out. Unless you explicitly stated that you planned on having sex with him, this guy shouldn’t have been so upfront. Be cool, baby. Be cool.

Look, maybe it’s been a while and he’ll take what he can get. We’ve all been there. But at least pretend you have standards. I don’t want to know that you possibly screw anything with a pulse or that you have no options. Or that you’re possible a sex addict. (Yes, that’s a real addiction. Yes, online dating is a haven for sex addicts.)  That may be the case. I just don’t want to know or suspect that.

Right now, you’re somewhat vulnerable. You’re cautious. I’m not sure getting together with a guy like this is going to be healthy for you. This guy isn’t just hoping for sex. He’s expecting it. I don’t think you want to put yourself in a situation like this just now. Things could get uncomfortable and possibly ugly.

 

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24 Responses to “Was He Too Casual About The Sex?”

  1. SB Says:

    Agreed. For me, it would be the expectation. As if you wouldn’t have the right to say No, in his mind. By agreeing to go out, you are agreeing to go all the way no matter what.

    It feels like he has taken away your choice. I wouldn’t go. My 2 cents, and could be way off base from your actual thoughts on this :)

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  2. nathan Says:

    He didn’t take away anyone’s choice. Meeting in your neighborhood, and placing his apartment off limits are the terms he presented, that’s all. The OP can say no thanks now, or she could meet him and say “no thanks” then.

    Being offended that he didn’t play a game of being a “gentleman,” when you both are clearly just looking for some fun, is all on you.

    Presenting a “positive image” is a skill plenty of sex addicts and sleaze bags have down pat. If your gut is telling you not to see this guy, then don’t. That’s the most important thing, not trying to dissect this guy’s character, which none of us know anything about.

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  3. Crotch Rocket Says:

    I … am just looking to date and hook-up. … His profile said he was interested in short term dating, new friends and casual sex. I told him we seemed to be looking for the same thing. … I didn’t say anything sexual to him or in my profile.
    Yes, you did. You said you were looking to “hook up”, which (at least to a man) means sex. Also, his profile said he was looking for short-term dating (aka casual sex) and casual sex, and you said you were looking for the same thing. How can you possibly be surprised that he thought you wanted to have sex? You told him you wanted sex, he took that at face value. This is not rocket surgery.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      She didn’t say that she stated in her profile that she was looking to hook up. She said:

      I didn’t say anything sexual to him or in my profile.

      You’re making assumptions.

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      • Crotch Rocket Says:

        Forgive me for assuming that she stated what she was looking for (“I … am just looking to date and hook-up.”) in her profile. Perhaps she lied, but I see no justification for presuming that.

        However, she does say that she told him that they “seemed to be looking for the same thing.” Since that was in response to his profile, which said he was looking for was short-term dating (aka casual sex) and casual sex, to say that she is looking for the “same thing” means that she is also looking for casual sex. Ergo, she did say something sexual to him–and now both you and she are trying to pretend that she didn’t so you can both make him out to be the bad guy here.

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        • Dimplz Says:

          It still doesn’t mean she’s a sure thing. It just means she’s open to it, should they be attracted to one another.

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          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            All he did was try to arrange their plans so that, if they both decided to follow through on their expressed interest in casual sex, it would be as convenient for her as possible. That strikes me as courteous and considerate, not creepy.

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  4. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    My take is that its silly for people to try to manufacture a short term relationship focusing on what people say they are looking for.

    My advice would be to just look to date people you are interested in dating, and forget what they say they’re looking for. If you’re not interested in something longer term with them, you don’t have to marry them. If you decide you want something with them, you could let it develop that way too. You don’t need to decide in advance what “you’re looking for” and you’re not a character is a novel so you’re not required to narrate your every thought and intention. Casual means CASUAL. That’s why its fun. No rules or obligations.

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  5. Howard Says:

    I think women should explicitly say what they really want. Because unfortunately guys have gotten spoiled and/or lazy with this casual thing. The old timers know what you want. Sex, yes, but not to feel used, to feel respected, to feel appreciated, and definitely not to get with a jerk or a sex addict running wild in the streets. The way this went down you definitely got the whiff of the depersonification that creeps into casual sex relationships.

    Yes there is an illusion to these things. It works that way with interpersonal relationships. People ask how you are doing, how was your day. These little niceties are a necessary part of making people feel comfortable. This guy is thoughtless. Even though it’s casual, discussing place is just not in the conversation before actually meeting, unless it’s just a total bootycall. This situation was not a total bootycall, because you were going to meet somewhere public for a date to look each other over.

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  6. peppermint Says:

    I wouldn’t say this is about the guy’s character or being a bad guy, just a lack of finesse and strategic thinking. All he had to say was, “I”m happy to come to your neighborhood. Pick a spot and I’ll see you there,” and he would have achieved the same thing and come off looking considerate.

    +1 to Howard’s comment. Men may think it’s silly for women to expect social niceties when it’s casual sex but why compromise your chances of getting laid when you don’t have to?

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    • Howard Says:

      Great points peppermint. We give social niceties to people that don’t even matter to us, sometimes to people we downright despise, if enough of a benefit is there. If you hate your boss, you will still be polite because he writes your paycheck. Then why shouldn’t a man be beyond nice with a woman who may sleep with him?

      The strategic thinking that you mention is also pertinent. Don’t count those chickens before they are hatched. Women still have to feel that chemistry in person. I have had great chemistry going before meeting, and nothing to match after meeting, so discusiing place may certainly be getting way ahead of oneself.

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      • Badger Says:

        “Then why shouldn’t a man be beyond nice with a woman who may sleep with him? ”

        But we’re not talking about him being “nice” (“beyond nice” is usually a turn-off). We’re talking about him creating a pretensual reality in her mind, allowing her to believe there’s something more than sex going on on the date, or that his approach to the night is different than that which they explicitly agreed upon when they messaged each other. We can go back and forth on whether that qualifies as “dishonesty,” but it certainly isn’t what I’d call nice.

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        • Howard Says:

          She wants the illusion, just in case. Men are physically stronger than women. If she is going to be alone with him, she will be at his mercy. So there is a nice test going down on these types of casual relationships. Of course she doesn’t want a pussy, that is too nice in a doormat type of way. It’s about projecting you are not bending over backward to please her, but avoiding anything thoughtless or off-color. Do I do risque or say risque? Of couse I do; it creates sexual tension, but those are push-pull situations or accompanied with a glint of humor. Showing strength does not mean being callous or thoughtless.

          It’s absolutely important to not do special favors until someone earns it. And we certainly want to avoid screw-ups as this guy did.

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  7. Badger Says:

    This sounds just like when a woman says “I want a nice guy,” and then you give her one and she curls her lip and says “well maybe I didn’t really mean _just a nice guy_.”

    Woman says she’s interested in casual sex, gives the guy a major verbal signal that she wants to meet for an encounter, then gets jumpy when she realizes the guy in fact is planning on having sex with her that night. And somehow he’s the one with the problem?

    I’m not sure this woman has ever been involved in casual sex; there’s not a lot of romance in it, and it’s a lot less romantic than films/TV would have us believe; media really frames casual sex as “precommitment sex,” sex that comes (ha!) very early in the dating process or kindles a friendship->romance transition, rather than sex that is overtly flagged as “we’re not committed, and we’re not going out to breakfast in the morning.”

    “3. You were turned off by how casual he seemed about sex. To me, his behavior says, “I do this all the time.” That would bother me.”

    So the girl picks out a guy with “not serious” written all over him, but you’re telling her it’s ok to be bothered that he’s not “not serious” _just for her_. Even casual sex is supposed to be spontaneous and unique, which brings us to…

    “He should have just gone with it and let things unfold organically.”

    THis makes me wonder if women have any idea what men go through to ge laid. Every guy who is consistently successful with women has honed a talent for logistics: where to meet, where to bounce to to escalate the mood, how and when to get back to somebody’s place, differentiating nerves from real resistance, having protection, closing the deal and discerning when she wants you to leave. There’s no “it just happened” for most guys – it happened because the guy planned and accounted for all the steps, and covered it up well enough that the woman was able to think it just happened. The only “organic unfolding” is in his pants.

    “this guy shouldn’t have been so upfront. Be cool, baby. Be cool…But at least pretend you have standards.”

    I get your point, it’s an important part of a guy’s game to allow for some plausible deniability in the woman’s mind. But the problem here is if a guy is straightforward, women will chide him for being blunt, whereas if he’s creative and subtle, they’ll eventually chide him for being a “womanizer” and a “player” and “leading women on.” If the guys can’t win, it’s carte blanche – so they might as well get laid before the girls get mad at them.

    And this tells me that even when women say they just want to hook up, they don’t really mean that – they still want whatever romantic accoutremonts accompany the road to sex, at least the bare illusion that there’s something more than a good pounding going on. But this just encourages men to learn how to fake it to get laid. And so women create the men they complain about.

    As for whether the guy has “personal problems?” Talk about projection – Moxie feels dirty about dating explicitly for sex, so thinks the guy must be dirty too. The guy, like most guys, is OK with the idea of a casual fling and when an opportunity is put in front of him he plans to that effect.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      So the girl picks out a guy with “not serious” written all over him, but you’re telling her it’s ok to be bothered that he’s not “not serious”

      Please don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say she should be bothered that he was “not serious.” I said that, had I been the OP, what would have bothered me was how thought nothing of explicitly expressing how casual he was about the whole thing. You guys throw around the slut word all the time and trash talk any woman who is this casual about sex. Women do the same thing.

      Sorry, I don’t want to hook up with some dude who makes it obvious he screws anybody. Just like I would never go out with a guy who answers the more intimate OKCupid questions and broadcasts how kinky he is or how much he loooooves sex. .

      A little finess goes a long way.

      Talk about projection – Moxie feels dirty about dating explicitly for sex, so thinks the guy must be dirty too.

      No I don’t. I just don’t date or sleep with men who are crass and classless about it. Like I’ve said over and over…I assume most men sleep around. I just don’t want to know that they do. This is not a difficult distinction to understand.

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      • Badger Says:

        “Please don’t put words in my mouth.”

        I don’t think you read what I wrote carefully. This woman messaged a guy who marketed himself for casual sex. Yet she, and you, are upset that he’s “not serious” in general, rather than just being “not serious.”

        It’s like you want him to be “casual-ready,” but _just for her._ She needs to be the special woman he chose as worthy of a quick, low-maintenance encounter. You want him to look over her profile and read her message and say “There it is! That’s the woman I’ve been looking for, the special gal who makes me want to pump and dump.”

        I understand that women want even casual things to seem spontaneous and “just happen” as a consequence of two people’s special chemistry and all that, but the fact is that to most guys for whom a casual encounter is desireable (which is a good portion of guys), almost any woman will do. Again, there’s not a lot of romance in casual sex, and if women want to play the uncommitted sex game, they best understand that.

        This all suggests that she’s really not ready for a fling, she still has needs for the deeper parts of the dating/relationship process. Which she should be honest about, and stop projecting that the guy is a creep because he wants what she’s selling.

        Although the more we debate it, the more the letter itself sounds a “look at how hot I am! I’ve got guys propositioning me for sex. I’m going to call this guy a creep as a backdoor way of telling people I’ve still got it!”

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    • peppermint Says:

      Well, I may genuinely want casual sex but that doesn’t necessarily mean I want it with YOU. So if you set up the situation in a way that looks like you think sex is a foregone conclusion then I’m going to worry about having an uncomfortable/awkward conversation if I’m not feeling it.

      Most women don’t like being pressured to have sex if they really don’t want it. So at that point, I’ll just nip it in the bud and avoid that potential confrontation altogether – it’s not worth the risk.

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  8. Kurt Says:

    This women sets up a slutty profile and messages a man who indicates he wants casual sex to tell him that they are looking “for the same thing,” but then acts surprised to discover that he only wants sex? What a psycho!

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    • Badger Says:

      That’s the TLDR version of my comments. She wants dating without commitment. Over the course of a dating lifetime, women are a lot less into commitment than they let on, but she still wants the guy to act like it’s a real “date” to give her morals some cover.

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  9. Selena Says:

    The day before our date he emailed me and asked if we could meet in my neighborhood. He explained that his apartment was currently undergoing repairs and wasn’t fit for company.

    My take: he doesn’t want to risk his wife/girlfriend finding you at his place.

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  10. Maya Says:

    This has happened to me twice. There was a period where I was just out of a relationship and wanted a fun, casual fling–maybe a one night stand or maybe something a bit longer but not serious, just to get my confidence back. So I started responding to men who said they weren’t looking for anything serious, thinking it would be easy.

    Turns out it wasn’t. Twice, the guy emailed back WAY too pushy–”let’s go out in your neighborhood, then back to your place.” “What are you up to tonight? Can you host?” And both times, I felt myself drawing back.

    The thing was, I realized, I had to feel SAFE to see this through. I wanted casual sex, but wasn’t sure if I wanted it with these guys or not–the first meeting was really just to see if we were into each other. I hated feeling pressured and didn’t want the guy’s expectation to weigh so heavily on me. If we met and I wasn’t attracted to him (definitely possible), I didn’t want to have to deal with a potentially irate or (God forbid, but it happens sometimes) even violent guy. I don’t know these guys from Adam so I had no idea what they were like when they didn’t get their way.

    I think guys don’t realize sometimes how instinctively important safety is to women–and how important to make women feel safe, even in casual situations. A lot of the time that’s what those little social niceties are about.

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    • Selena Says:

      Amen Maya.

      There are times after a long relationship ends, after you’ve done your grieving, your introspection and retrospection, you want something ‘light’, not serious. To ‘get your groove back’ to use a cliche. Doesn’t mean you want to have sex with a total stranger an hour or two after meeting. If we click on a casual level, nature will take it’s course within the next meeting or so. What’s the rush?

      My casual relationships were found offline and I never felt pushed, or unsafe. I was also the one to speak up on the first date (or before) that I wasn’t looking for anything serious because of where I was at the time. Dating sites would seem to be ideal for those who want a little ‘light romance’, but as you and Moxie have pointed out, employ some finesse, consider a person’s safety, understand casual doesn’t mean skipping the social niceties,

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    • sureisfun Says:

      But Maya, the simple solution, in both your and the OP’s situation, would be to specifically say, when originally emailing about arranging things, is that “On our first meeting, WE WILL JUST CHAT AND MAKE SURE WE BOTH ARE COMFORTABLE & WANT TO PROCEED” or something to that effect. What is so difficult about making that clear? That, yes, you’re ok with something casual and NSA, but you want it to feel right before jumping into bed with someone you don’t know.

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  11. Jaimie Says:

    If we met and I wasn’t attracted to him (definitely possible), I didn’t want to have to deal with a potentially irate or (God forbid, but it happens sometimes) even violent guy.

    This very thing happened to me a couple of months ago. I met a man on OKC and we agreed we were both looking for a casual hook-up type thing. He said he working in finance. We exchanged messages for a couple of days. I thought it strange that he was so active on that site during the day. The real clue was that he said he was accessing the site from a library computer and that’s why he didn’t reply to the message I had sent the previous evening. He stalled on when he wanted to meet and kept saying how busy he was. I gave him my number and told him to get in touch when he knew his schedule. He kept emailing me until I finally said that I wanted to meet that night and if we didn’t we weren’t going to meet. When we met up I knew right away that he something was wrong with his story. He was well dressed and attractive, had a copy of the WSJ with him, etc. but something about him didn’t fit. I made an excuse about feeling sick and left after an hour. I had never experienced the unsettling feeling I had when we first met up. There was no way I was going anywhere with that guy. He emailed me a few more times after that until I blocked him.

    I don’t know if he was violent or dangerous. He could have just been in between jobs and embarrassed and that’s what I was picking up. From that point on I was much more careful.

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