Are You Ready to Fight The Good Fight?

One of the many stories I heard about my Dad over the last few weeks involved a scuffle he had with his insurance company. When my step-mom was diagnosed with invasive scleroderma in 1997, there was no treatment for the disease. My parents heard of an experimental trial for the disease and my father got my step-mom into the program. Part of the trial involved having my step-mom fitted for a stint that was inserted into her chest. The doctor who headed up the trial had developed a medicine that would flow through the stint and would soften the tissue that covered the internal organs, namely the heart, so that they could function properly, despite all the scar tissue that had developed. (Invasive scleroderma affects the external as well as internal skin/tissue.)

Initially, this medication was not covered by any insurance. My father found that unacceptable and engaged in a several month to year long dispute with his insurance over this. Now, my Dad can be rather…persuasive. Between his ability to reason and argue to his reach in various communities, he had some influence. He rarely ever used that influence to such a degree. But this was different. Eventually, the insurance company conceded and my step-mom’s medicine was covered under his insurance.

He wasn’t arguing over money. Money wasn’t the issue. My Dad would have taken a job at the corner donut shop to cover what the medicine cost and wouldn’t have blinked an eye. This wasn’t about a few hundred dollars.

He was fighting for my step-mother’s life. That’s how fiercely devoted they were to each other. If there was one place you never wanted to get caught, it was between my step-mother’s cross hairs when it came to my father. Cancer schmancer. She would (and still can) level you. I say that in a reverential, respectful way.

Next time you’re in a quandry about Facebook friending that dude you just met, or all twisted up because some ex is stalking your Facebook page, or in a huff because that guy from Match didn’t mention anything specific to your profile in his message to you, consider this:
If something as insignificant as this can trip you up, what are you going to do when things get real?

We all hear people (mostly women) about how they refuse to settle. (Yawn.) The stories always revolve around what those people refuse to give up, like attraction or stability. Well, derp. Nobody will argue that those things are important.  How convenient. And that’s what the “I won’t settle” is: an excuse of convenience. Rarely do you hear these people say, “I want someone I can fight for.” They might say they want someone who will fight for them, of course. Because it’s all about them and what a partner can do for them. I blame fairy tales for that.

We all heard those stories about men fighting wars and crossing mountains to be with their true love. But we never heard the tales of the princess who took on soldiers to release her love from prison or to save his life. It was always the man doing it for the woman. Never the other way around. Through these stories, we were conditioned to believe that that is how it should be.

Somewhere along the way, I think men got tired of fighting for us. They might woo us, spend money on us, etc. But would they fight for us? I don’t know. I think men are fatigued at the thought of that, because nothing ever seems to be enough.

I’m not sure I want to be in a relationship where both people are not willing to do battle for each other. It shouldn’t be that people only fight to salvage a relationship when they are threatened with the loss of it. It should be that there is an ongoing threat of loss. Because, let’s face it, there is. At any given moment you could lose your partner. They could find someone else, or get tired of you. Or die.

Pledging commitment is only the first step. It is not a guarantee. Some people are so eager for commitment. They never seem to think about what comes after that. Which is probably why so many people implode before they ever even get to that point.

The more I read articles that revolve around pedestrian, juvenile “dramas” and “issues”, the more obvious it becomes to me why so many people find dating so “hard.”  I happen to believe that people get stuck on such superficial non-problems because, deep down, they know they don’t have what it takes to actually have a relationship. They don’t want to do the work or takes the risks. They certainly don’t have the ability to fight for someone because they’re too busy obsessing over their own “problems.” Me, me, me. Poor, wounded, fragile, under-appreciated me. Show me. Prove yourself to me. Do for me. Feel sorry for me. The self-victimizing, wounded nonsense abounds in the blogsosphere. Get  over it already.

The real question you should ask yourself when you’re dating someone and considering commitment is this:

Will they fight for me? Better yet…would I fight for them? Would I give something up to be with them? If you have to think about the answer to that, you’re not as ready as you think you are. I’ll go further and politely ask you to step aside. You’re just slowing down the line.  Honestly, if you can’t figure out when to Facebook Friend someone or what to say in a text or are still trying to navigate the oh so tricky world of FWBs,  you need to move it along. You’re creating a Dating Bottleneck. You are the three car pile up on the High Way of Love.

Really. It isn’t that difficult. Do or do not. There is no try, as Yoda said. You’re pretending to try, but actually you are doing not. Or naught.


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50 Responses to “Are You Ready to Fight The Good Fight?”

  1. offensivedan Says:

    A year to settle an insurance dispute over coverage? And with all the influence he could muster? Why didn’t he just hire a lawyer who would have had epxertise in settling coverage disputes? Why did the insurance company finally conced? Lawsuit threatened?

    Anyway, I find most people not worth the trouble of fighting over. It’s jsut a sign of the times.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Way to focus on the true take away value of the post, Dan.

    • Snowflake Says:

      Dan, if that is all you took from the post, it basically echoes what Moxie stated. People are too caught up in the petty drama BS to actually care about what truly matters in life anymore. You just gave a perfectly good example of what she said above. That is very sad. Because what I took from her post was this…

      “This wasn’t about a few hundred dollars. He was fighting for my step-mother’s life.” and “That’s how fiercely devoted they were to each other.”

      Those lines are what is missing from a good chunk of relationships these days.

      And what does it matter that Moxies dad had to do the work on his own, he did it the best way he knew how and he got the result he wanted, at the end of the day what speaks to me is he went to bat for the woman he loves – who cares how he did it, he just went to bat for her 100%. Nuf Said!

    • Ken Says:

      OffensiveDan…How fitting! Is your alter ego BiggestDickest?

  2. The D-man Says:

    It’s a touching story, and it sounds like they are/were great people in your life. But I wonder… do you think if they’d been born 40 years later they’d be any different than we are? I think social media and online dating are re-wiring our brains. The “grass is always greener” is an old cliche, but new technology allows us to see a LOT more lawns than we could in the past.

    This is part of the reason I’ve radically cut back my use of Twitter and Facebook (though Reddit is still a pretty serious addiction). Better to live my own life in the real world than observe others’ in cyberspace (remember that word?).

  3. HB Says:

    This post really is something I think people need to hear.

    I realize that what each individual seeks in a mate is different, but I honestly think that the key to a long-term relationship is genuinely about respect, devotion and compromise.

    Great message.

  4. RDB Says:

    This exact topic has been heavily on my mind lately, so what an incredibly timely post. This topic goes to the core of the key difference between people who are really relationship-ready and what I call the chronically single.

    • Howard Says:

      THe amazing thing is that we don’t stay that way. We really do evolve. The trick is to evolve in a timely fashion, so we can still use what bargaining chips we have left, to at least find someone worth fighting that good fight for. Unfortunately our looks conscious society and the reality of biology punishes women more harshly than men, as they age. Men, having more skeletal muscle, burn more calories, given the same exercise being done. I really wish it weren’t like that. There really is a moment there in a woman’s thirties or forties where she realizes her moment has passed, that moment where she got guys to do crazy.

      The other trick is to not waste it all on people not worth fighting for. We all want someone with high social value. At some point we have to be wise enough to face up to what our level is, or be willing to do whatever it takes to shift our level up high enough to match what we desire. I think most people waste whatever little fight within them on the wrong person. Then they become beaten down and jaded and lose whatever little fight they had within them starting out.

  5. fuzzilla Says:

    >Rarely do you hear these people say, “I want someone I can fight for.”<

    Actually I used to say this all the time, I just picked the wrong people and got caught up in codependence (they were trainwrecks constantly perpetuating drama who couldn't even tell me a story without holes in it let alone fight for me). So I needed more selfishness/better selection skills to even things out. They have to be worth fighting for, or you're just being taken advantage of. That aside, I agree.

    • M Says:

      Sounds like the problem isnt that they were codependent with you, but more that they were drama-causing trainwrecks – two completely different issues.

  6. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I’m generally skeptical of wistful anecdotes about how relationships “used to be” and how things have changed for the worse. First, I’m skeptical that things are materially different. We only “know” of others’ relationships that which people choose to tell us (including our parents) and you tend to get an overly romanticized and sanitized view when hearing these stories from them. Most people in relationships paint a fairly rosy picture – especially so after someone has died.

    To the extent there is a material difference in how couples relate, I believe the cause is “more options.” Our parents’ generation, and generations before that, had more hardships they needed to overcome. Like the pressure on coal that produces a diamond, more substantive relationships are forged under more challenging circumstances. As life gets “easier,” in general, the need for these types of relationship lessens. So, you see less of them. (Even in Moxie’s story, the illness of the step mother had no effective treatment at the time her father fought his battle Perhaps, today, he wouldn’t have needed to.) From a moral perspective, its hard to dispute that more options are worse. People don’t fight because they don’t have to.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      People also don’t fight because they don’t want to or know they won’t win. That’s what all the faux drama is about. Its all done to avoid losing. They’d rather say they tried and failedthan actually try and risk losing. Pondering whether things would be different is no more useful than wondering if Facebook has made dating harder. WE have made dating harder.

    • HB Says:

      I unerstand what your intent behind this response is. And I agree to a certain point.

      I thought that my grandparents and parents had strong ideal marriages. Only did I learn some hard truths when I was in my late teens and early 20’s. And that information did infact adjust my perspective on relationships.

      My grandparents were married 51 years. I found out at my grandfather’s funeral that there was a rather serious scandal in their marriage. There was a woman in the limo with us (who I had never ever seen). I found out from my mother that she was my grandmother’s BFF at one point and had an affiar with my grandfather. It was apparently an issue that was addressed but never spoke of. But my grandmother loved my grandfather and they worked though it and got past it. When I asked her about their marriage (in general terms) she said that it was great but at times hard.

      I also found out a few years later my parents had a bit of the same issue. I remember being mad at my mom, for trying to work it out with my dad. They went to a therapist for a LONG time, and it’s been almost 13 years since. My mother also said at times she hated my dad. But she said they talked and agreed to TRY to keep the marriage intact. She loved him and felt that she owed it to herself to try to see if she could forgive him.

      While I had a harder time forgiving my dad, the point she really tried to instill in me was that being married/committed to another means through the good times and the bad. You owe it to the other person to TRY to get past the bad times (this does not include domestic abuse though).

      Personally with the friends I know who are married, re-married and divorced who seem to have a strange view of marriage. I kid you not; have a friend that told me she and her husband were having SERIOUS problems because he went down on her too much, rather than traditional intercourse (reason being he often arrived too soon). So he was trying to please her…but it wasn’t enough. This is a woman who has a propensity to cheat. They have three kids and she is willing to walk away because of this fact. Something that EXISTED before they got married.

      Another lost a ton of weight (lap band) and thought she was better than her then husband who (didn’t care about himself) and then cheated, divorced and remarried. I mean why? He loved her when she was at her lowest, and yet she thought she was better and deserved more.

      I know guys that have constantly been looking for something better. But there is nothing better. If you feel your partner needs to exist to validate you, then the problem is you. You will never find what you are looking for, because it doesn’t exist.

      Sorry I didn’t mean to ramble.

    • Selena Says:

      ” Most people in relationships paint a fairly rosy picture – especially so after someone has died.”

      I agree with this. Which is why it can come as a surprise to hear a couple you thought got along so well is divorcing. Or hear from a relative, or old family friend there was infidelity, addiction, abuse in the marriage of a golden anniversary couple after one or both have passed on.

      We like to romanticize the marriages of previous generations because they lasted so long. They may not have lasted so long because they were willing to ‘fight for each other’ , but because of economics and the stigma of divorce in their social circles. And yes, fewer options: everyone was expected to marry and had a more limited pool from which to choose a spouse. And women were expected to make this choice by age 21. The good old days.

      • dimplz Says:

        “Which is why it can come as a surprise to hear a couple you thought got along so well is divorcing.”

        Usually, the reason you don’t hear about these things until the couple files for divorce is because they keep things private, and if they went around talking about all of their issues, it would only make the problem worse. This is why a lot of couples try counseling first and don’t say anything to anyone until the situation has reached an impasse.

        “We like to romanticize the marriages of previous generations because they lasted so long.” I don’t think that’s what Moxie is doing at all. I’m understanding what she wrote from my own perspective, so please Moxie correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly certain that the reason why she (and I) think it’s commendable that couples stay together that long is precisely because a lot of shit can happen in 51 years. Hell, a lot of shit happens in 51 days! I went away for 6 weeks to Europe and I came back and there was all this family news: my cousin got his gf pregnant, there was roadwork, my priest left the parish, and my VP had resigned. Imagine 51 years? Yes, people have to deal with temptations, sometimes job changes, illnesses, death, accidents, etc. But to stay together despite all that? It IS a big deal.

        • Selena Says:

          Commendable it may be, but you don’t believe social pressure was the main reason for some of these marriages longetivity?

          • dimplz Says:

            Social pressure is the reason a lot of people do what they do. It’s why I work, work out, shave my legs, go to church and eat healthily. Pressure is a part of life. It doesn’t mean I don’t get anything out of it or feel unfulfilled. Hardship is a part of life, and so is pain, but if we go around avoiding pain all the time, we will also miss out on pleasure.

            Oh God, do I sound too New-Agey?

            • Selena Says:

              No you don’t sound too New-Agey :)

              I just don’t agree that societal pressure to get and STAY married benefitted every individual in those marriages.

              As far as being willing to fight for someone…one has to find someone they connect with to be willing to fight for them. We meet/have the potential to meet hundreds more people than our ancestors did. Despite that, meeting someone we genuinely connect with seems harder than it was for previous generations who’s circles were limited by community, church, and class.

              Is it that we want too much? Would we be happier if we expected less from a relationship? If we expected less, would we really being willing to fight for our partner?

              • dimplz Says:

                I think we do, but I think we expect too much of the wrong things. For example, I’ve heard women be impressed by a guy’s car and how much he makes, but they don’t seem to notice that they guy sees them infrequently and is generally not into them. They don’t take notice of the nice guy, and will actually say he’s “too nice” which means “pushover” in their eyes, when usually it means they want to do things to make you happy. So you don’t want a guy to try to do things to please you and make you happy? You’d rather have a guy who drives a fast car and infrequently contacts you? Ok. This is my opinion: women have placed emphasis on behavior they expect from men that only exists in movies. I have never in my life met a guy or a friend’s boyfriend or husband who did any of the things I’ve seen in any number of romantic comedies or dramas, yet for some reason women I talk to will say they want a guy who’s like so and so’s husband. Well, honey, so and so’s husband is nothing like the leading man in any of the movies you base your criteria of the perfect guy on.

                TL;DR – Women who create this fantasy guy are afraid of real relationships so they create criteria so impossible to fulfill so they can continue complaining about how they’re aren’t quality guys anymore, when really, there are. They look more like Bradley Whitford, though. Not Bradley Cooper.

                • Selena Says:

                  When I asked if we want too much, expect too much from a relationship I was thinking along different lines. In previous generations, “making a good marriage” was in large part about one’s standing in the community. They chose partners based on dependablity in terms of being providers/helpmates/parents. Similar backrounds, same values. They didn’t expect to “be in love”, have great sexual passion, or be each other’s best friend. They didn’t expect their mate to share all their interests, or be entertaining company. They didn’t look for “someone who gets me”.

                  In this age, we do seem to want more from a partner than just helpmate and a level of social status. A lot more. And I wonder if it’s this desire to have someone who fullfills in us most ways that makes it harder to connect. Good sex is nice, but is it a sufficient substitute for dull conversation? Does the potential to drive you to chemo make up for the fact you seldom laugh together? Expecting to find a ‘soulmate’ may be far reaching, but is it really a stretch to imagine finding someone you could truly enjoy being with every day?

              • HB Says:

                I think this is a good discussion. Do I think we want or expect too much from a mate?


                I was reading a re-cap of some show I have never watched, but this woman was talking about her difficulty finding a husband; and noted her 73 item list of her perfect man. I mean give me a f’ing break. You will NEVER find anyone to meet that criteria. Period end of story. And if you think that you need someone where you love ALL of the same things and spend every waking moment together…you are in for a serious disappointment.

                It has taken me a long time to figure out what I wanted in a relationship and what I needed from a relationship. I needed someone who I could be myself around, the good and the bad; where I didn’t feel judged. I needed someone who I trusted, where if we had a fight I trust that they will forgive when they say they will, who can be honest even if it hurts, someone I trust to commit to building a life together. My wants were someone I enjoyed spending time with, even if it was doing the laundry that made me laugh, and was not afraid to be themselves in front of me. I needed to feel emotionally secure with who I am, who they are, and who we were together.

                I don’t want to imply that looks and financial status should be disregarded, but people need to remember they are not perfect either. Not only do you want to find someone who you can live with, they need to be able to live with you too.

                In past relationships I never felt that the other person accepted me fully for who I was. The most heartbreaking of all of them, I felt as though he looked at me like a project. He bought me clothes, and did all of these things that at first made me feel like he really loved me. Later I resented him because I felt like he didn’t like me and needed to fix me. Granted he was 10 years older than me, and I wasn’t even a fully developed person. I thought “hey you’re not perfect either, and that’s okay with me”.

                Accepting someone for who they are isn’t settling. It’s getting past your own bullshit that tells you someone is fine the way they are. I swear if a guy is honest, kind, dependable, makes you laugh, is responsible and accepts you as you are…that’s a good man. I mean, I found a guy that has those qualities, AND the fact that we like the same things to boot and we get to have sex…it’s awesome.

                I once read this article about being mature enough to commit to someone. Although it was written from a humorous point of view, I thought the points were pretty solid. Basically you find your relationship at the point where you are no longer trying to impress each other, you trust each other, you are friends, you are not “in debt” to each other (emotionally and financially) and you fully grasp the concept of forever.

      • LostSailor Says:

        Which is why it can come as a surprise to hear a couple you thought got along so well is divorcing

        This was my situation. Nearly all of our friends and most especially my sister were flabbergasted when my ex and I announced to them, together, that we were splitting up. Over 3 years later, my sister still says to me “I can’t believe you two got divorced, you guys had the perfect marriage.” A couple of friends flatly refused to believe it, insisting that we would get back together.

        We didn’t have private, dramatic fights and there was no infidelity, the core part of the marriage just kinda faded till it was more like we were just living as roommates, which neither of us wanted.

        For what it’s worth, if push came to shove, we’d still fight for one another. We’re still executors of each others wills and are still health-care proxy to one another. We’re friends, we’re just not married.

  7. dimplz Says:

    I was having a discussion about something along these lines the other day. My boyfriend was talking about my brother-in-law’s niece, who mentioned in front of him (and her father), that some health issues she was having were related to birth control. He was like, “Why did she say that in front of her dad?” and I told him, “I don’t know, I guess they just don’t think it’s inappropriate.” She’s 21, and in many ways, I appreciate his conservatism and how it manifests itself in our relationship. We’ve had big arguments, but never does he bring up things I’ve heard others bring up like, “Oh well, if you don’t like it, too bad.” He’s actually very strong and will not give up easily. I think that’s what is lacking today. I hear a lot of people say they don’t want to do the work. Well, then don’t be in a relationship. Because between all the fun and good times, is a lot of fucking work. It’s not easy for two people to find things they both enjoy doing, or to smile at a party after having an argument in the car. Or to forgive someone when they’ve done something for the umpteenth time that annoys you. Or to just get over yourself and your needs and do something solely for them. So, s/he’s in a foul mood? Deal with it! It’s what you signed up for. I think people would greatly succeed in relationships if “I can be difficult/annoying/selfish asshole, too” would be their “go-to” mantra.

  8. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “WE have made dating harder.”

    Harder than when? I don’t find dating hard at all and the existence of Facebook and online dating have only expanded my opportunities and made things easier. Dating is easier.

    What you’re saying is that it is harder to create the kind of relationship our parents may have had. It could be the case that that “kind of relationship” no longer serves a purpose. Its like saying that aerospace and automotive technology has made it “harder” to cross the country by horse and buggy. Yeah, we can lament the modern, but doesn’t mean I’m not happy, deep down, that I can be in Vegas in 5 hours.

    • dimplz Says:

      “Its like saying that aerospace and automotive technology has made it “harder” to cross the country by horse and buggy.”

      It is harder…for the Amish, but for those of us who have moved with the times, it’s not stressful at all.

      I do consider myself to be Amish in the dating world, though.

  9. Saj Says:

    I think it’s important first to have a lot of respect for your partner as a person before worrying about the other attributes such as sexy, good job, how tall he is ect. Girls liking the bad boy due to it’s gina tingling effects let them avoid these sorts of men completely.

    When you think of your partner and think about how much they inspire you and how they deserve your best it makes it easy to fight for them rather then listing good on paper attributes that in the end mean little.

  10. GuyDatingAbroad Says:

    This is a spot-on blog post!

    Evan Marc Katz in his blog also writes about why he married his wife: if he were hit by a car and was in a wheelchair for life, she was the type that would stick it out for him. It is implied that he’d do the same for her:

    This year, I’ve really asked myself: would I stick it out for a woman that would be my wife or long term girlfriend, through all her hardships? The answer would be yes. However, given that all these single women are asking men like me to prove themselves, and they spend all their time judging men, they show nothing of themselves to convince me that they are worth the kind of devotion mentioned in this blog post nor by Evan Mark Katz. It’s all about what I can do for them. Sorry, but it goes both ways!

    There is too much “I won’t settle” mentality in the whole dating scene.

    Now when I see dating profiles, blogs like these have shown me how to spot the time wasters, the “I won’t settle” types, the narcissists, the walking wounded, and the “I’m too good for you” types. What that leaves is… almost no eligible profiles. So I gave up online dating this year.

    I’ve also given up dating locally as well. Hence, I’ve ignored all the dating blogs, although I peek one a month or two (and spotted this post).

    I am doing zero dating locally this year, and as of March, I broke off from all those singles from my social networks. I unfriended them, deleted their contact information, and ignored their social invitations. They have been single for years, for as long as I’ve known them, and I don’t need to waste any more time being sucked into their social events and meet-up groups. It’s gotten me nowhere. Looking at their lifestyles, they’d be doing the same thing 5 or 10 years from now, and the older ones have!

    I’m now re-focussing 100% on my career and my personal interests.

    Oh, and I am also looking at international dating: other countries where the women treat guys much better. This is not for everyone, and there are a lot of red-herrings out there, but I’m seriously exploring that as an option.

    • SB Says:

      Be. Very. Careful.

      As someone who lived abroad for awhile and watched lots of men’s lives get ruined by these “very giving, loving, feminine women,” I am aware of the scams and the tricks. Many ended up dead, some worse.

      Just do your research. If you are picking a woman from a particular country, google blogs from that country and see what the men are saying. Some of the stories will surprise you, and are heartbreaking. Just know the risks.
      Have fun and good luck!

      • Angeline Says:

        “Many” ended up dead?! Oh please. In what country are “many” men ending up dead by dating? That seems to me a major news story the press is completely overlooking.

        And I’m pretty sure “dead” would be about the *worst* outcome. Scare tactics for men checking out of American dating.

        • SB Says:

          I was waiting for the flame.

          You seriously think that a country whose major product is tourism is going to report the deaths of American, Australian, and British citizens being murdered by their wives and girlfriends? I am not going to elaborate, but do a search for the blogs and read stories by the *real men* who have gone through it.

          The ones who survived are utterly disillusioned, bitter, and destroyed mentally and financially. Not all, I’m sure (though I have been told it’s only a matter of time, but I’m hoping not because I became close with a lot of these guys). I just wanted him to be careful and not get swept up. These women know the game and are very, very good.

          You really think that death is the worst outcome ever? Sheltered much?

          • dimplz Says:

            If these people are already dead, why can’t we hear the stories about the incidents you know about firsthand? I don’t agree with Angeline flaming you, I think she is vehemently disagreeing with you and challenging your inflammatory statement.

            • SB Says:

              It is too painful for me to bring up, and most of the details I have buried (I do that with intensely painful memories). The stories are all very similar, and many are in the newspapers from those countries and shared and linked on blogs.

              Sorry, i would not be able to do a service to the stories, and would end up a lump of sobbing emotions again.
              These women are basically con artists who make a man (yes, previously disillusioned enough to seek women abroad? Sound like anyone here?) believe that they love him, he is their savior, they need him, whatever the rest of the game. These men FALL for it. Completely. She buys them groceries, cooks them dinner, fixes their clothes that need mending, is caring adn attentive….they get married. Suddenly she is conning him out of money left and right (easy when a man loves you and these women are living like 1950s American women did). In the end, typically the wife and her same-race lover murder and bury the now broke and ruined husband. They usually run around paranoid in the weeks and months prior, begging friends for help. Problem is, no other expat will help them because they know they will be killed, too, and the police of that country are either easily bribed away or won’t care because the victim is white. It is reported, “investigated”, whatever; in the end, the woman got what she was after. Happens again adn again.

              I am speaking on one country; i don’t know about all of them. I just warned him to do his research, I am sure he will be fine. I just worry.

              Not unlike warning a woman to be aware of date rapist, etc, right? Knowing the danger exists is a big part of staying safe. I am not trying to scare him, though maybe I did who knows, just warn him. I don’t know this man and never plan to date him; I hope he finds happiness. Just don’t want him to end up in such a state.

              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                It is too painful for me to bring up, and most of the details I have buried (I do that with intensely painful memories).

                Oh for fuck’s sake. Cut the melodrama. That’s the scenario anybody could glean from watching a Tru TV/Forensic File special. Jesus. Just admit that you have no first hand knowledge of this and be done with it instead of trying to make yourself the focal point of yet another comment thread. You do this all time.

                • Angeline Says:

                  “I was waiting for the flame”. I was waiting for stories of bathubs full of ice and poor schlubs with missing organs, myself.

              • dimplz Says:

                Human trafficking gets a hell of a lot of media attention from both national and international press. I find it hard to believe that this type of exploitation wouldn’t wind up in some journalist’s hands. This is award-winning investigative reporting gold.

                The *worst* story I ever heard was about a Russian woman who married an American. He paid for her schooling and other expenses. She met some guy at her Russian Orthodox Church, dumped the American, and married church guy. I am a native New Yorker and I’ve heard a lot of horror stories, and this is literally the worst one I’ve ever heard.

              • M Says:

                I dont know about the guy getting killed in the end, but I know somebody who studied abroad in Russia and met a girl. She seemed great, real nice and everything like SB said. They moved to the US and got married. As soon as her citizenship was finalized, she started making is life a living hell. They got divorced, she tries to get every cent she can out of him by any means necessary, including lying about her own income and deliberately taking a job that pays much lower than what she is qualified for. She uses their kids as pawns in this game and doesnt really care about them. This continues 7+ years after their divorce, even though she has moved on to a new guy. She didnt kill him, but, staying on this side of what is legal, she has done about everything else she can to hurt him.

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            The ones who survived are utterly disillusioned, bitter, and destroyed mentally and financially.

            More than likely those guys were already shattered and disillusioned BEFORE they met these black widows. Sorry, but you rarely ever hear stories like this from stable, attractive men or women. They’re almost always crazy/lonely/desperate, and were so before they met these con artists and murderers. Not that that makes what these grifters did any less despicable. But let’s be honest here, the typical prey for these types are the ones who checked out of reality long ago, or who have lived in some delusional bubble their whole life.

            And PS? People on the internet lie, and many are kinda crazy. Consider the source.

      • Dimplz Says:

        What’s worse than death?

  11. Amy Says:

    I guess the question boils down to – what is truly important? When I got sick a few years ago, I reevaluated everything. I decided to focus on what was truly important, and you know what? It is actually a very short list. VERY short. That’s why, if I were dating today, I wouldn’t care about his car/clothes/looks/moves/game, I would watch how he treats his elderly relatives, his small nieces/nephews, his neighbors, how graciously he handles the tasks/obligations he would rather not do. I’ve said many times that it is easy to be charming and pleasant when you are in a nice restaurant and someone else is bringing a delicious dinner to your table. It is a whole ‘nother story to stay up all night with a feverish baby, drive a wife to chemo, take an elderly grandparent to the doctor or grocery store. But this is what life is really made of. And if you weather the rough times (which come to everyone), how much sweeter the good times will be.

    On that note, as I write this, my very dear brother-in-law and family are evacuated from their gorgeous mountain home in CO, as the fire is less than 2 miles from it. They sit and wait, together, to see if the fire will destroy everything they own, except for pets, and one carload of stuff (one suitcase each) they were able to get out. Whatever happens, they will rebuild – together. Because of the love and the bond that they share. That’s what I would want in a life partner.

    Very interesting post and discussion, Mox.

  12. LostSailor Says:

    I’m not sure I want to be in a relationship where both people are not willing to do battle for each other.


    This is the acid-test of a long-term relationship. If you don’t have this, you’re LTR is not going to be as L as you think. Not to get schmaltzy, but they used to call this “love.”

    Not the roses and rainbows, long walks on the beach, gazing into each others’ eyes over candle-lit dinners kind of love (though I suppose that’s fine, too). But the really deep, long-lasting kind of love. Knowing that not only would you take a bullet for one another, but that you’d risk much more: reputation, fortune, freedom; that you’d risk censure, humiliation, and ridicule if necessary to protect one another. That you’d do what it takes.

    If you have that, you don’t sweat the small stuff. And even in our benighted culture, it’s still out there boys and girls. If you know how to find it (don’t look at me, I’m still looking, too), and really want it (which really is the ten-thousand-dollar question, isn’t it).

  13. The Private Man Says:

    “never settle”
    “I deserve…”
    “Must have chemistry”

    Combine these three cancerous attitudes with the overall shopping cart mentality found with online dating and Dating 2.0 becomes an ugly spectacle analogous to gladitorial combat.

    Yeah, we’ve totally fucked up dating and relationships. Why should we fight for anyone when a new partner is but a mouse click away? Trouble in the relationship? “I’m not haaaappy!”? Trade out and up with the encouragement of false (and perpetually single) friends along with a social expectation the demeans committed relationships in favor of haughty selfishness.

    As a man, I am incredibly careful with my emotional investment in a woman. I’ll happily be involved sexually but emotionally? I will yield commitment based solely on my own needs.

    Your father and step-mother were operating under a social contract between the genders that was ripped up by the generation that followed them. There is no gender social contract any more so I, as a man, have been liberated to follow my own heart and loins without concern for the impact on others. Is it any wonder why Dating 2.0 is also called Combat Dating?

  14. chillybeans Says:

    “for better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health” those vows mean something, and still should today.
    Here is a real life example. My colleague’s son in law had a severe stroke two months ago. He is in his early 30s, and has been married to her daughter for just a few months. She has been at his side for this ordeal, sleeping at the hospital, helping him with rehab, working with his doctors. He is doing much much better than his initial prognosis had us believing, and I really think it’s because of her constant, unwavering, loving support and resilience. It was so hard for her at first, that she would throw up when she would see him. She sucked it up and was there for him, because she loved him and that’s when he needed it most.

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