I just left this comment over on a post at The Frisky. 
For whatever reason, it appears this comment has been moderated. I felt strongly enough about the comment that I wanted to post it here just in case it doesn’t get approved over there.
ATWYSingle • 3 minutes ago
People who go to bed with writers (ahem) will expect to wake up with shit written about them.
This is a cop out that way too many bloggers and writers use to justify behaving badly on the internet.
The only people who *expect* to be written about are the people who go out with us *solely* to be written about. Those usually aren’t the nicest/most stable of people aka narcissists.
I, for one, have to make extra effort not to be stereotyped as what is now considered the “typical” dating writer. It was bad enough trying to get over the Carrie Bradshaw, shallow, neurotic, shopping addict comparisons. Now we have to deal with being labeled drama/attention seeking, lacking objectivity, self-obsessed, trainwrecks. I’m tired of it.
What decent men expect is that we will keep conversations and interactions private. They expect that courtesy. They don’t waive their right to privacy just to take us out for a drink. I won’t even get into how gross it is that you expense bad dates so you can roast those dates online. You just said it yourself…even you are a potential target of websites like the ones discussed in this post. You make it quite clear that you are uncomfortable at that thought. So I don’t understand how you can then turn around and be so blase about doing the very same thing to the men who date us.
I just want to make something very clear here. Any man who expects to be written about because he dates a dating writer is bad news. Any guy who doesn’t express concern about how he is described or position in something you write wants to be trashed. Bad attention is still attention. I don’t care how many times they tell you that they don’t even read your blog or your articles…they’re lying. If they really don’t read what you write, then they don’t care about you. End of story. Run far, far away from any guy who acts unconcerned at the thought about being discussed on the internet.
The other night I was having a conversation with someone and he revealed that he initially, before we met, saw me as a “player.” Which, as we all know, is laughable. Orly? A 40something year old women in Manhattan? A player? Allow me to recover from my momentary bout with The Vapors. Since I don’t talk about my personal life here or really anywhere, and I don’t discuss anything that I do with anybody else with the men I date, I was confused as to how he could make such an assumption. So I asked him to clarify his statement.
“Well, you know, you write about dating. That’s what I mean.”
This is one of those situations were men and women need to pay close attention to the words being used in certain conversations. Being called a “player” is not a compliment. Ever. Just like it’s not a positive thing to be categorized as “intimidating” or “aggressive.” If someone describes you as aggressive, take that as a warning. They are telling you that your approach is somehow unsettling. If someone calls you a “player” what they’re telling you is that they deem you unsafe in some way.
I asked him if there was something specific that I had written that had rubbed him the wrong way or bothered him. He said no. I didn’t push the issue because there really was no need to and it likely would have ended up in an argument. I wasn’t going to pick a fight over something like this. But it was clear to me that he was lumping me in with whatever other “dating columnists” he follows, reads or knows about.
Swell.
I guess what bothers me is that, no matter how hard someone tries to present a “dateable” persona online, there’s still the possibility that we will be judged simply for what we do. Hell, I’ll never fully get past the whole Blow Job Class that we used to host a couple of years ago. Hindsight is 20/20.
There’s no real delineation between writing a blog that deconstructs bad dates and a website that contains editorial content. Probably because the more editorial focused website contain a lot of “Ermergard, let me tell you about the dumb guy I went out with last night” type fare.
I realize that these are #singlegirlproblems and not that big of a deal to most of you, as most of you have chosen different careers. But this is the one I chose. It frustrates me that – no matter how much effort I make to be mindful of what I say and write – it could all be for nothing. Granted, my love life has greatly improved over the last couple of years after I decided to keep certain things offline. I guess I just worry that I’ll never fully be able to get past whatever preconceived ideas men have about women who do what I do.
I’m especially aggravated at writers like the one I linked to in this post, who seem to think they’re entitled to trash guys online because they are “writers.” “Oh, well those guys know what they’re getting into!” No, they don’t. Not the decent ones. The decent ones expect us to be decent in return. The assholes want us to flame, obsess and criticize them because it feeds their ego.
Face it, ladies. Some of you tolerate the worst in male behavior in the hopes that you will somehow score that Brass Ring of Single Men. Then you whine and cry when that little bubble gets burst. You endure bad dates with jerkwads not to be polite but because you hope that, somehow, you’ll be different or have a great story to tell at happy hour. When what you should do when a man acts rude or offensive is get up, put your money on the table and leave. Stop tolerating it. The desire for validation from strangers is strong. Believe me. I understand. It’s like a Siren’s call. (Men are just as guilty of this, too, of course. I’m directing this commentary more to the women because most of what I read is written by women.)
Worse is how thin-skinned these writers are when someone turns their critical lasers back on to them. Then you’re being a bully. I had it out with a blogger a few weeks ago who played the bully card after I responded via Twitter to a post she wrote about getting a dick pic. I suggested she focus less on charm and looks because those are shallow attributes and that might help her avoid encountering dudes who want to chat about their sexual prowess. Let’s be honest. That is something women indulge as long as the guy is good looking. “I didn’t ask for your advice!” she cried. Yes. Yes you did. You write a god damn blog wherein you break down the faults of every freakin’ guy you meet. That is asking for feedback. Don’t like it? Don’t share it on the Web.
Seriously, do us all a favor and write a diary. You’re not helping the cause. Trust me. You’re making it harder for us to do what we do and be taken seriously.
I usually listen to the Delilah show on 106.7FM as I drive in the evening. I like the music she plays. I am not necessarily a fan her advice. People generally call in with their love stories. There is one constant in all these stories. It’s always the softer side of their partner’s personalities that get highlighted for their reasons for deciding to get married or being together for 20 years.
Then I go to blogs where all of that is glossed over. Everyone seems to gravitate to certitude and opinions rather than vulnerability and just being nice. There is an old line of a men looking to get married to a woman who is as nice as his mother. Yes, his mother may not be really nice, but he has that idea in his head, so that is all that counts. Women too would like someone strong and loving, and of course a lot of guys lose sight of that too.
Women keep agonizing at these blogs, being general hardasses, and missing the point. Men are not looking to have you as their significant other because you are have the most stringent disclaimers or you are over-educated or successful or right about the world or popular.
As I read all of what is written above, I can’t help but being amazed at how much that represents the dark side of what keeps the current status quo. Yes, men can be villains at time, but if a woman falls into the trap of being too wary and calculating, she may doom herself to a very difficult task in attracting the very man she wants. Men who like the light tend to prefer women who prefer the light. They like women who focus on the positive, who looks for the best in people rather that the worst in people. Women who come with disclaimers and wariness tend to continually attract the guys they wish to avoid like the very guy mentioned in this post.
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Yea, well no kidding. Most “dating” blogs are written by women who aren’t in a LTR. They are good at “dating” and that’s all. I have the feeling looking at some of the other blogs that they are looking for things to write about rather than, you know, trying to meet a partner for fun and love. I would NEVER date a woman who writes about her dates. I don’t need to be some punch line in some online kaffe klatche of permanently single hens.
Dating is a means to an end for normal people, not the end. I read about dating so I can attract better partners and avoid mistakes. Some blogs are pretty useful for that.
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That article is a perfect example of why nobody reads The Frisky anymore. Comparing the violation that Tyler Clementi experienced to the mocking of someone’s anonymous Craigslist ad? That goes beyond the pale. She’s awful.
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Unfortunately eegardless of what we do or how well we craft our dating profiles we will always be judged. I’m a Republican in New York City. The harsh and completely inaccurate judgments I’m subject to for that fact alone are almost amusing. I’m also an attorney and that also comes with a set of generally inaccurate judgments. Such is life.
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A Republican and a lawyer in NYC. Wow, double-whammy!
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If you’re going to label yourself then you should be aware of the company you’re keeping.
But I suspect those judgments aren’t as inaccurate as you would like them to be.
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Moxie,
You dont write the details of your dates which is a good thing. But there are so many female bloggers that do. And so I fear that maybe you get lumped in with those women who write the details. Its funny how every female blogger that deconstructs their dates follow the same formula:
1. The title of the blog itself references that they have many bad dates
2. The blogger comes up with some sort of nickname for the guy
3. The blogger never, ever takes blame for their decision to date those guys
4. They get all pissy when someone challenges their rhetoric that the guy did something oh so terrible on the date
Thats why this blog is credible. Because it gives advice on the situations that OTHER people write in, not the blogger’s (Moxie’s) daily dating stories.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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moxie, I started reading you tonight. Not sure what to think about your blog. Like most blogs, its all about you. From older posts I can tell you wanted a relationship and you come across as wanting a family, feeling lonely and waiting for true love. And you are in you late 30s, early 40s? Not sure if you have another job, if you have ever been married or have married recently, have children; but girl if you are single and looking for a man and the whole family thing, my advice to you is close this blog now and go get on with your life and open your heart to good things that will come to you. Sitting behind a computer all day every day hearing and talking and digging into the smallest details of what makes people be one way or the other over and over and over again is a perfect recipe for your life to be exactly where it may be right now in 30 more years. You’ll never be able to change the world but you can do something to change your inner world and be very happy.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Therapists dig into problems for a paycheck, too; does that make them immune to happiness?
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Therapists go thru many years of education to give objective advice and they see people face to face 8 to 5pm. And those problems tend to be deeper and people are willing to pay. That is very different than blogging with tenths of people 24/7. She is in charge of this blog and reads every single thing posted. If you think that does not bring negativity into her personal life, you are certainly mistaken.
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I really shouldn’t bother responding to you because you’ve already established that you haven’t read for long, haven’t read much and can’t retain what you read. Only someone dramatically self-absorbed would write the comment you wrote while admitting you haven’t a clue about the basics like my age, whether or not I’m married, in a relationship or have/want children. Long time readers know the answers to all of these questions – es[ecially those with access to my protected posts where I discuss these things in detail. Although I’m guessing you’re not as new as you purport, since you said that I “read every comment.” Sweetie, it’s a blog. Don’t get so invested.
Carry on.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Sweetie don’t be so bitter. Was just advice for you. Take it or leave it. Nobody here cares about you.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Wow, such stunning insight and sagacious advice from someone who just started reading last night.
But I guess Concern Troll is gonna troll…
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Fairly obvious drive-by by someone who has has had their cage rattled I’d say.
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What gave it away? The “I just started reading your blog” part or the “let me intentionally get stuff incorrect so you’ll think I’m not one of those people who reads and commits everything to memory” part?
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There was a great line in the “13th Warrior” about this. His bro’s were giving Ibn down the road about his bed companion the previous night.
His response: “A gentleman doesn’t discuss such things.”
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We could go rounds on why the entire concept of ‘gentlemen’ is as obsolete and dead as the Handsom cabs that last squired them around in their beaver felt hats and great coats. The style basically goes almost unrecognized, the effort is rarely or widely rewarded, and above all, the knowledge base is lost on nearly everyone. Decent manners by more folks might be more greatly appreciated by all, but even that’s too much work for most people. Again if you can hardly even recognize ‘good manners’ or the utility of same what’s the sense of being a ‘gent’ or trying to emulate such an ancient condition? Leave it to the historical ‘re-enactors’ or the gamers. It’s part of fantasy land now.
On the general proposition raised in the comments there’s this old chestnut that pre-dates psychiatry:
“Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be”.
Abraham Lincoln
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin100845.html
Cheers, ‘VJ’
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