Name: Princess Leia
Age: 25
State: TN
Question: How do I end up with a guy who only sees me as an option, for now? I met this incredible guy 5 years ago and he has told me he is not ready for a relationship because he is a musician but not the “typical” musician. We only talk a few times a week and see each other rarely. He is extremely attracted to me and I to him. And even though, he says he wants to see me soon all the time he doesn’t make plans to. I understand he is living it up right now and I give him his space because I don’t want to pressure him, but I really like him and I just want to know he will one day be mine.
Any feedback is appreciated!!
I’m not quite sure what, if anything, is going on between you two. It sounds to me like you’re a tad obsessed with a guy who, for the most part, isn’t all that interested in you.
Being attracted to someone and actually caring for them are two different things. This guy says he wants to see you but never makes the time. There’s your answer. Hon, you’re not even an option to this guy. You’re just some young girl with stars in her eyes.I don’t say that to hurt you. I say that to snap you out of this haze you appear to be in right now. He’s never going to be yours. You’re not giving him space. That’s your way of rationalizing the the situation. In order to give him space you’d actually have to be taking up space in his life. You’re not. This is kind of like when women go on about how they broke up with a guy when really they just finally took the hint that the guy wasn’t all that interested and left. Sure, you can say you broke up with him. But that’s not really what happened.
Here’s a question for you: don’t you want anything else out of life? I’m not sure what the hell is in the water in Tennessee that makes girls from there so, I don’t now, dependent on men and marriage and having a man. Maybe that’s all they groom your for down there. I don’t know. But I have yet to come across a twenty something girl from Tennessee/The South who didn’t seem to want much out of life other than a man.
Don’t you have any passions or interests? Why are you worried about a man being “yours” at 25 years old? You have everything ahead of you. Why throw all of that to the wayside just for a guy? A guy who can barely manage to see you, no less.
I guess what I hate to hear in the letter is how your life seems to revolve around this barely present male. To me that just seems wrong. He’s just a guy. I sound crotchety and old, I know. But really, don’t you have a plan for yourself? If not, you should. Do you know why? Because in these times it’s really, really unwise to rely upon a relationship to fulfill you.
Let’s say you and Mr. Rock Star do get together. What then? Marriage? Kids? What? What’s your plan? You can’t wait until you’re 35 years old to suddenly wake up and remember that you forgot to get a degree, or choose a career path, or develop an identity, or have kids. This is stuff you have to put into action now. You can’t sit back and wait for some semi-employed jug band leader to wake up and realize you’re The One. He has lots of Ones, hon. Lots. You are one of many, many Ones. You don’t see him trying to balance a career and a relationship, do you? No. He’s out there living his life. Not sure what kind of a life it is, but it’s his.
Where’s yours?
You want to be in a position where you get to choose which door to open and what path to take. That’s where he is right now. He’s unfettered and living his life. You don’t want to settle down because that’s what you’ve been told is what girls like you should do. You want to do it because you’ve had various experiences and now choose to sacrifice certain things. That way there’s less of a chance you’ll have regrets.
In 5 years you’re not going to even remember this guy. You’re not even going to be the same person. You’re going to change. At least I hope. The idea of some young girl latching on to a guy at your age makes me cringe because there’s a really good chance that is going to stunt her emotional development in crucial ways. Then she’ll end up divorced at 30 or 35 and complete, utterly lost.
The first thing you need to do is be sure you can take care of and support yourself. That’s what your twenties are for. You need to develop an identity and independence. Then you find the guy and settle down. Don’t get me wrong. If you’re life goal is to marry and have kids, that’s great. That’s as valid and important of a goal as wanting to get an MBA and run a business. However, in either case, you want to be sure that you can stand on your own first. The last thing you want is to tie everything – your life, your identity, your future – to someone who quite possibly won’t be around in the long run.
“Not a typical musician”- what does that even mean? It sounds to me like he doesn’t get regular gigs and instead is working on some kind of crazy new conceptual genre while he plays on a street corner. Unless he has a stable day job, PL, you need to RUN.
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He envisions music but has no instruments or training, his music is completely new and will soon sweep the world. He’s got a dozen record companies offering him contracts, but he declines as they don’t understand the revolutionary importance of his vaguely described but powerfully transformative ideas. His days are spent in the coffeehouses looking rad.
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If the op’s goal is to get married and have kids, I say skip the whole “find your identity and independence” thing. Make yourself as attractive a potential wife as you can right now. The career can come when the kids are grown. As far as pertetuating civilization goes, having kids is more important that getting an MBA and running a business. I’m not sure why independence is of such high importance to women who are looking to get married.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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OP, Titanium is right. Just look at how older women are ridiculed on red pill blogs for wanting a long term relationship with a good guy.
If that’s what you want, forget about the musician type and find a decent guy who is into you… This would mean he’s calling you, making dates, following up, pushing the relationship forward.
You have plenty of time to get that MBA as a mature student and travel etc. If you put off your dreams of marriage and family to “find yourself” you could end up in the same situation as the 43 year old spinster giving you advice.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I’m not sure why independence is of such high importance to women who are looking to get married.
Because with a divorce rate of about 50%, you need to be able to support yourself.
If I didn’t have a decent job I would have been living in some crappy apartment in a rough neighborhood after my divorce instead of in a house in neighborhood with good schools for my kids.
That’s why. (and don’t think child support/alimony alone is going to cut it, it’s not enough)
Even if you don’t divorce, there’s always the possibility of death/disability/job loss etc.
A girl needs either her own money or a way to make it.
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Since virtually all divorces are passively or actively initiated by women, perhaps he should have said;
I’m not sure why independence is of such high importance to women who are looking to get and intending to stay married.
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I’m not sure why independence is of such high importance to women who are looking to get married.
Perhaps because over 50% of marriages end in less than five years? If she’s not independent before getting married, how do you think she’ll fare five years from now–potentially with several kids consuming all of her time (and limited income)?
I have no problem with one spouse having a career while the other stays home with the kids; that certainly seems to work out better than both trying to do both jobs–and doing a poor job of both of them. However, the latter spouse should still be capable of supporting him/herself in case things don’t go according to plan. Death, divorce, unemployment, etc. can happen to anyone.
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Then go to college and get the MRS and graduate at age 22. She will always have the degree to fall back on if needed. Settling down when she hits 30 as And suggested puts her behind the 8-ball. 2-3 years from first date to marriage seems like a reasonable timeframe. When a woman is pregnant at 35, doctors call it a geriatric pregnancy. geriatric = old. Doesn’t mean she can’t get pregnant but why take on the risk of declining fertility?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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There’s plenty of interesting ‘stuff here to run down. Let’s start with the hopeful real context (TN), and note that yes, they do make them this sort of ‘sweet’ & certainly ‘naive’ in places down south. I lived in TN for about a decade, so I guess I’m as qualified as anyone to try and hammer out some sort of sense of what the OP is saying here.
I agree with much of what Moxie has said, without of course feeling the need to somehow insult all of ‘Southern womanhood’ or traditional minded lasses in the drive by. Be that as it may, the South still has some of the most attractive, feminine but hard working, strong willed, independently minded & yes usefully family oriented gals in the nation. It’s a strange combination that’s not often easily found in NYC I suspect. But that’s some of the context here. Some other thoughts:
1.) No, they really don’t often look like the illustration to the post. Not as much. And fewer still carry around the proverbial hour glasses to tell or ‘reckon time. Apart from cooking & baking that is.
2.) While we do not have a whole lot to go on, this note from PL is just pure girlish charm: “And even though, he says he wants to see me soon all the time he doesn’t make plans to. I understand he is living it up right now and I give him his space because I don’t want to pressure him, but I really like him and I just want to know he will one day be mine”.
Sure it’s likely to be pretty delusional too, but scary enough in the particulars to likely keep some bands on the road for years longer than necessary.
But really PL, we need a bit more info here. West TN (Memphis, Blues, R&B), Nashville (Country Kings, & the best song writing), or gawd help you East TN. (Bluegrass, Old Tyme & rockabilly)? Also what instrument are we talking about here? Run of the mill guitar ‘hero’ or steady beating jack of all trades drummer? Not the usual musician could mean anything from banjo to bagpipes to dobro and back again. We might suspect that he ‘comes off’ ‘not like all the others’. And let’s even imagine that’s true.
3.) So PL, this musical dude put his hooks in you when you were all of 20. He may even be your first ‘true love’ or something like it. If the feelings are not returned and he’s just stringing you along after 5 years or so, no matter how special you might feel about him, the sentiment is not being returned in kind. And it does not seem at this juncture it is likely to be. So while there’s ‘something’ here, it’s likely all on your side of the ledger, and possibly residing more in your imagination. Which is awfully sad, we know.
4.) So yes, sadly ‘destiny’ works like that sometimes. She’s either that funny looking but lonely kid gotten off of one of those proverbial ‘traveling bands’, or she’s the missed bus stop on the way to heaven. Them’s the breaks. We’re not going to judge your future prospects, your ideal level of educational attainment, or your goals you’ve set for yourself. We don’t know them and are wholly ignorant of such matters. Now (@25) might be a fine & natural time to start thinking about a family and how to get there with that special someone. There’s just awfully little indication that this guy’s ‘the one’. If he was? He’d be showing much more interest in you & seeing you more & paying better attention, and he’s not. Whether he’ll ever get there or ‘measure up’ is another matter for conjecture. But at this juncture, after 5 years or so? We suspect the odds are strongly against him & you becoming much more than a comfy way station on the way to a ‘LTR’. It’s a nice comfy out of the way place to dream, but it’s still no closer to reality.
Sorry about that. Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Philly Gal down below hits on an essential feature here. Being ‘in the country’ is just a whole lot different than ‘being in the city’. Even when that smaller berg is but 25-40 miles away from the next biggest city. It’s a whole different world & mindset, even now, with all the inter-connectiveness of the net.
Then there’s another issue of assuming that what we may want for ourselves, or our kids or even our friends might be the best course of action for someone else we truly don’t know. That’s fairly hubristic of us, but again not uncommon.This from PL is a pretty sketchy outline of someone’s desires and yes, fantasy. As a fantasy, it’s actually incredibly common. Once upon a time, it was pretty similar to the wish of your grandparents generation to ‘run away to the circus’. It was the only ‘moveable event’ that likely came to their small town to generate any sort of real excitement on a regular basis, and where one might harbor some first fantasies of escape from the confines of your small, circumscribed world.
It really is similar to the entire ‘band’ fixation of the younger set, and especially of some gals. It’s incredibly simple to fall into such thinking. You’re excited by the performance, and the guys look great performing, possibly were even nice & decent afterwards, and even paid for the MickD’s before or after the tryst. For someone starved for real live entertainment? It’s an age old attraction, and one that goes on all the time. It’s why Hollywood is endlessly fascinating to the vast majorities of the public, almost everywhere. We like seeing good looking and/or talented people, and we immediately can imagine ourselves there with them, paling around with their crew and being one of the fashionable rich ‘glitterati’ set. It’s responsible for the big business of selling images to then go on to sell all sorts of products to us.
So that’s part of the complex mismatch of expectations here. The other is living down south in Ga., I know plenty of local young, sweet, attractive gals who really want nothing much more than to raise their own families, and to have some babies with their own favorite redneck. I know it sounds awfully anachronistic or ‘old fashioned’, but in some places it can easily represent a plurality of the population of younger gals in any rural or ‘exurban’ community, even today. By the numbers, it’s about half of the current US female population. Most women today are not the highly educated, well compensated go getters you see in NYC & other large coastal cities. This is especially true for the older set btw.
Yes, PL may be sort of ‘out of place’ in some of her expectations that we can discern from this short note. Most young women her age are pursuing or trying for some sort of higher education. We don’t know if this is the case for PL. It easily might be. Still, most of the women employed today are still occupying the lower runs of the ‘service industry’. That’s the vast majority of the entire population, and much of that is due to the expectations and necessity of child care & rearing of young kids. This is not seen as changing much in the near future, according to the BLS. Going forward, the first top 10 of the ‘fastest growing occupations’ again according to the Government’s BLS, require little or no training much beyond HS, which is right where the majority of the population is now, btw.
So we misunderstand each other, constantly. And someone writing in of her simple desires or fantasy is told repeatedly that evidently she needs to spend anywhere from ~$25-50K before she might entertain her options. We might all wish our young to be well & better educated, but mostly they’re not. And it’s unlikely that even a simple majority of the population ever will be. Currently about 1/3 of the population hold some sort of undergraduate degrees. (Yes, it’s higher for the younger generations but not anywhere near 50%). From personal experience in front line hiring, I know that means anywhere from about 10-15% of those college grads might be able to actually do the work required, and/or are able to read and write on a 12th grade level. So more education is not the universal answer to every question, evidently. Sadly enough. Cheers, ‘VJ’
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Moxie’s advice is generally good but if you want kids find a husband/partner now. This is prime time for her to find a good husband. If she waits to the age of 30, all the “good” husband/father potential men will already be gone. Drop this musician and look from a STEM nerd. He most likely will be the shy guy with very little game. This is the guy you want. Just don’t forget that you still need to work on yourself. Make yourself the best wife/mother potential woman you can. Men that are truely good, caring, and loving look for these things. But don’t forget attractiveness is ranked number one for almost all guys. Just a word of caution, do not marry a man you are not physically attracted to. It would not fair to either of you.
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” I’m not sure what the hell is in the water in Tennessee that makes girls from there so, I don’t now, dependent on men and marriage and having a man. Maybe that’s all they groom your for down there.”
Bourbon. You meant bourbon.
—
Mississippi has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the United States, by a wide margin. (55/1000 women; the national average is 17.) [1] A nurse in the sole abortion clinic *in the whole state* (that is risking shutdown) commented on this on reddit, and she claims that one principal factor for this is that the women (and men) there have *nothing to do.* [2] Combine this with very stout devotion to religion and BAM! Kids and a family before both partners hit their quarter-age crises.
I know this is an extreme example, but it’s consistent with the many people that I’ve met whose chief interest is their significant other. People that I know and have met that lead (or try to lead) interesting lives aren’t usually obsessed with their partners.
TL;DR: Find yourself, then find your soulmate. You know, when you have more *soul.*
REFERENCES:
[1] http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-10/news/sns-rt-us-usa-health-teen-pregnancybre83904p-20120409_1_teen-cdc-pregnancy
[2] http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/14o269/til_america_has_the_highest_teen_pregnancy_rates/c7f5m6t
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Two minor geographical corrections here for you.
1.) She’s in Tennessee, not Mississippi. You head south if you want to go to Mississippi.
2.) It’s sour mash, not bourbon. You head north if you want bourbon.
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I know she’s not from MS; it was an example. And that’s for edumacating me on my liquor; I could use it
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I think Mox is right in her critique of Leia and her situation with this guy.
However, I see no problem with settling down at 25. Once upon a time, that was actually very late to do so. I have friends who have been happily married since 22. I envy what they have; dating sucks royally in comparison. But the key to making this work is to be in the right state of mind, place in your life, and level of maturity in the relationship.
Obviously, that is not going to be the case with this specific situation; Mr Rock Star is clearly noncommittal if even interested more than an iota in Leia.
It would definitely be better for her to work on her own life and not focus so much on trying to “land a man”. But this could very well happen in a few years; it needn’t wait until mid-30s (as is becoming “standard”), especially if Leia wants to actually start a family. And I do think that is a “valid” goal.
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Sound advice re being able to provide for yourself, have a career etc. You can’t stand alongside someone until you learn to stand by yourself. Being able to support yourself gives you personal freedom.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Dating is very different in less populated areas. Example: A good friend of mine is Gettysburg, PA. She lives in the heart of Philly now. Many of her high school friends who stayed in Gettysburg are on their 2nd child at the age of 30 (already married). She is still dating around. There are simply more options, so dating for a longer time is actually possible. In a smaller area, you’re gonna reach the point where you’ve pretty much dated every single person you find remotely attractive within a certain radius. It is a totally different world.
Now of course she should move on from this guy. It has been 5 years of her waiting around, so it’s obviously not worth it. Just wanted to make the point that dating options in TN are very different than those in NYC.
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“Being attracted to someone and actually caring for them are two different things.”
Moxie is 1000% correct on this point, and PL is probably too young to realize what it means. This guy probably is attracted to PL, but if he is not spending time with her, it doesn’t mean anything. I realize that the guy makes her feel special in ways that other guys don’t (for now), but ultimately it is not real. PL deserves to have a real relationship with someone who cares about her. Five years is enough time for this guy to make his move. If he hasn’t by now, it just isn’t happening.
I’ve learned this lesson the hard way. The best thing is for PL to stop thinking about this guy and completely move on. Don’t check in with him and see how he is doing. Don’t daydream about spending time with him. Give up the dream of being with him in the future. Yes, PL will feel empty inside, but it is better to realize that is over now than when it happens years from now. And trust me, it will, and then it will hurt more.
Fantasies always seem better than reality, but they always end. Always.
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I can’t stand responses to things like this. Leia should do whatever she damn well pleases. It’s not fair to anyone if she leaves this relationship always thinking about what ifs. The only thing I hope she does is realize her needs are just as important as anyone’s. All you can do is tell them what you want and hope but not expect them to respond in ways you want. I guess the question is how long do you want to wait for someone who seems to be avoiding asking himself the big questions.
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This, however, is not a relationship.
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Ok, maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see anyone giving Leia any actual helpful advice for her situation. If I read correctly, Leia is specifically asking about this one man she has been trying to get a date with for 5 years. She never even said anything about wanting marriage or kids, and especially not in the next few months or a year, so all that speculation seems unhelpful here (though fun to talk about, I admit).
Hon, no matter what you are looking for, this guy is not it; whether you want a fling, casual relationship, LTR, or potential serious partner for life he is not into you at all. Sorry, it must hurt, but I can’t imagine why you waited 5 years without even one DATE!? I think I would have lasted a few months, maybe a year, being a naive 20 year old.
You are 25 now. If you do want the marriage and kids thing, you need to date with intent as I am now. We are about the same age, and basically, it would be good to have something nailed down by 30; give yourself that goal, but don’t go into panic mode or freak out (it will sabotage your efforts with men, so keep it cool). Go out and meet new people, visit the nearest city and hear a band on the regular or get into a hobby, do meetup groups, do online dating – any or all of these to meet people. Being our age and decent looking with an open and friendly personality will make this easy. You can meet lots of guys and probably find any type of relationship you are looking for. I know I have those options.
The catch is always finding someone you click with who watns what you want. That makes it a challenge, but i am in the process of meeting as many guys as possible to give me a better chance at that. Let’s face reality; if we want men in our lives, now is THE time to do that. don’t wait until you are 30 or 35, don’t wait until AFTER you graduate or whatever – NOW is the time. Guys don’t care if you are in process of going back to school, graduating in a year or two, or well on track to a career path. As long as you have a plan and are passionate or at least ambitious about pursuing such, that part does not really matter, from what I have seen.
What matters is looks, age, personality. Stop waiting for Mr. Not-Ever-Gonna-Be-Interested and go find yourself several nice guys to pick from. They are out there and waiting to meet you; heck, they may even be right under your nose – clear the fog of this guy away so you can clearly see them.
Good luck! I am right there with ya
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Ok, I apologize; Moxie did answer in her first paragraph. that is what you should read and take to heart, she is right on.
Get far away from this guy, and if he comes running when you finally wise up stay away. Never give him another chance because if he doesn’t want you now while you are patiently waiting for him, he will never love you the way you want to be loved. Just go away, cry and grieve and listen to angry songs, then move on and cut him out of your life. It will only hinder your future.
Okay, done now
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