Name: Uri
Age: 39
State: WA
Question: Dear MoxieI’ve been on various dating sites for 18 months, and update my profiles regularly, with new pictures (making sure to delete old ones), and have refined my text so that it shows what I offer a man.
Although I’m not as facially attractive as other women, I have a nice body and I am in great shape, due to watching what I eat, and intensive workouts (I don’t mention this in the profile, but show this in tasteful full body photos.)
Online, I’m getting men who visit the profile numerous times, but don’t message me. I can go two weeks without getting a message, and the men who contact me are looking for discreet sexual arrangements and are married or seeing someone.
I have messaged men who I find interesting (older, average or quirky looking guys who happen to have common values or interests) and have either had outright rejection, or we swap a few emails then they stop replying when I ask them out.
I found that I was getting approached by more men when walking down the street, in bars or at the gym, so on Friday I tried to delete my OKC profile. I had forgotten my password and couldn’t delete the profile, so instead I removed my photos.
Over the weekend I have had five emails from men I would find interesting. One even said “your profile reads nice, but sometimes what’s written is more attractive than the visuals.”. I felt that he nailed my problem. Men find what I offer on paper attractive, but I just can’t compete with other women’s faces.
Getting better photos isn’t an option because I’ve had professional shots, social snaps with friends, social photos taken great photographers, photos of me doing my (feminine) hobbies, self portraits with my DSLR, etc
The only thing that got me dates was photos of me wearing very revealing clothing. In the end, I had to delete those photos because the men I met for coffee or drinks were disappointed when I didn’t go home with them afterwards and didn’t want a second date. One man even told me that my photos were misleading because I was a really nice intelligent woman. (He admitted he hadn’t read my profile, just wanted to sleep with the woman in the photos).
Should I go ahead and delete my photos, or keep trying. If so, what kind of photos should I upload?
My friend and I were out Saturday night. A woman walked past us. We both commented on the fact that she had a great bum. When she turned around, he and I had very different takes on how she looked. I found her face unattractive. He insisted that the woman was hot. Was she objectively attractive? I don’t think so. But what I think doesn’t matter. What matters is that a man thought she was attractive. “Women don’t get to tell men what we should find attractive” he said.
You’re comparing yourself to other women and rating your looks based on them. That’s what we do. Unless your plan is to switch teams, you should stop doing that. Will you have a ton of options? No. But then very few of us do. You’re not having an atypical online dating experience. Everybody has the same one. Evey woman gets hit on by the skeevy married dude with no photo, the chubby guy from some suburb, the twentysomething brah, etc. This just in: online dating attracts a bunch of drooling idiots. That’s why I laugh when whiny dudes come here and talk about the little experiments they perform. They create fake profiles with stock photos of hot women or men and send out unintelligible messages and still get responses. Super. Too bad people responding to those profiles and fake photos are likely idiots. Seriously, who doesn’t know how to tell the difference between a stock photo and a real one? Who actually believes that Ms. Maxim or Mr. J Crew is genuinely interested in meeting average looking them? People who fall for this are ignorant or naive boobs. They should not be considered data or proof of anything other than there’s a lot of stupid/horny/lonely people online.
If you’re being approached offline you can’t be that unfortunate looking. Online dating is a very superficial and subjective thing. It doesn’t help that most people bring to it a very distorted perceptions of themselves. Even you. You assume you don’t measure up because you are comparing yourself to other women on those sites. You’re not factoring in to the equation that what men consider attractive and what women consider attractive often greatly differ. I tend to believe that women have a more rigid definition of what constitutes beauty, whereas a man’s definition is more fluid.
Frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with shaking your money maker a little bit.If you’ve got a great bod, show it off! Use it! Don’t roll around naked on a bed, but work with what you have. Everybody does it. The lawyers and doctors who reveal that they’re lawyers and doctors. The British/Australian/Irish guys who give themselves usernames like “ManfromOz” or “YourLeprechaun” and tout their accents in their profiles. They do that because they know American women swoon over accents. Breaking” men like boobs and bums and waist lines. So flaunt ‘em if you got ‘em! Just learn how to vet the responses you receive a bit better so you can cut down on the number of offensive idiots that want to take you out.
People who don’t have pics shouldn’t even bother at this point. Only the most desperate of people respond to a profile with no photos. Afraid your little secret will be revealed? If your friends/co-workers are online and find you, guess what? That means they’re on there too. So get over it. Just don’t reveal anything that could get you fired or make co-workers lose respect for you.
Uri, keep your photos on your profile. Promote your assets tastefully. Don’t be afraid to be sexy. Then be patient.
I think Moxie’s advice is good. It sounds like you have a good profile that men respond to (as evidenced by the comments you got without the pics), although it might not hurt to have someone review the profile itself to see if there’s any little think in there that cues something you wouldn’t want it to.
Personally, my face doesn’t photograph very well. I have friends who are very photogenic, know their angles, know just how to pose and smile to get a great pic. I just don’t. It’s very hard to get a good one, and I think I come across better in real life. Anyway, I dated online for about 6 months on 3 different sites and really didn’t get many messages from men I was interested in (a lot of the same BS you got). I only went on dates with around 6 or 8 guys in that timeframe, and while I liked a couple of them, nothing moved into relationship territory. I took a hiatus for a while and went back on and did meet the guy I’m in a relationship with now, blah blah, no one wants to hear it, but I think the timing was just “right” for us to meet at that point. Luck and timing. So you have to be patient.
And I am sure there are guys out there who will like your face and find you attractive. None of us are “everyone’s” cup of tea, but some guys will like how we look. Others may find us ugly, but so what? Stay on, keep refreshing your pics, use the tasteful body shots, and wait. Now is a good time to be online because of all the new members that join after the holidays. And of course work it offline as well. If you don’t have a lot of success online, it does NOT mean you’re not “attractive enough to find love,” that’s BS.
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I agree with K. I agree, not all of us are men’s cup of tea. I for one, don’t have that cookie-cutter barbie look…that is, blonde hair, blue eyes thing going. I have been told I have a unique face…not sure what that means? I look European to most. Not sure if that’s a good thing. But we have to work with what we have. It helps to be in good shape, a nice hip to waist ratio, that is…and to dress stylish/feminine.
Not all of us are tall. I happen to just be 5’4. So-we all have disadvtanges. I have the same issues as the OP. Men view myt profile, but seldomly initiate conversation…which is why I rarely go online anymore. I am convinced it’s better to just meet when you are out with friends or by yourself…you cut the middleman (the stupid monitor out)…and conversation ensues – if you both visually find some mutual attraction. Not all of us photograph well, which is why it’s hard to date online…what you see is not always what you get.
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Here’s a good example of what Moxie said regarding women and men not agreeing on what is attractive. That whole “cookie-cutter barbie” thing? That has never appealed to me. It seems to be what women think we want, and maybe some do, but many don’t. I’ve always preferred dark hair, dark eyes, proportional build, height irrelevant. There is no one recipe for what men like, and there are millions of us. Taken as a whole, we like everything. Just own what you are and don’t obsess over it.
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You do kinda have to be good looking to get dates online. When I was online, I definitely was getting attention because I was in my 20′s and was a former model.
Sure, we can’t choose our looks but we can tweak them to be our most attractive. I feel that some women in the US forget about femininity, including when it comes to makeup and fashion choices.
I notice the difference in how many double takes I get from men despite my model height and weight (although I am on a too-thin-side of things) if I wear a sheath and pretty shoes (I don’t wear heels a lot though) and makeup versus wearing something more simple and less feminine. You can wear jeans too but again it’s an art to present yourself in any article of clothing: a pair of jeans can make you look I-don’t-care-what-I look like -because I have a great personality or I am a sexy woman depending on what you wear them with.
Same goes for makeup. Learn to apply makeup (I especially recommend learning the skills of eyeshadow which can do a miracle for a woman’s face), also don’t always trust professional makeup artists, I find that a lot of times a woman who has been practicing the art of makeup can do a much better job with her face than a real makeup artist; there are so many YOuTube tutorials about how to apply makeup -watch them and pay especial attention to eyeshadow application (as I’ve already stated eariler). Grow your hair a little longer , wear dresses and sheaths in your pictures. Don’t post bikini pictures. Be sexy in elegant, form-fitting clothes.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Sorry, Erine……. Geezer Guy here
What are sheaths? Oh… nicely composed comment
Dan
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This is great advice. I definitely like and appreciate a woman who makes a little extra effort to look sexy. The woman I’m seeing now does a good job of that, and I make a point of complimenting her on it.
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Also as Moxie said in her anwser to you, her male friend found that woman attractive while Moxie didn’t think so. I find that men are acutally far less strict with their ratings of a girl’s beauty than women. I find most of the “most beautiful celebs” pretty at best or even average (i.e, Reese Whitherspoon) and the one of the few of the really stunning ones is , in my opinion, Angeline Jolie. I feel that these not so great looking famous females get their titles from the fact that they whip their bodies in the best shape possible, wear feminine clothing, use makeup, etc. But objectively most of them are not stunning. But ask a man – and he will just keep saying “hot” about most of them.
Men are far more flexible: you’re in good shape, you have a cute face which you can work, you wear a dress, you have a nice walk – you are hot!
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Totally agree
Jennifer Aniston (please look up her BEFORE photos)
Ann Hathaway
Reese Witherspoon
Zoe Saldana
Kerry Washington
Any model in Maxim
Average at best, but most men will tell you how hot they are. All they are is skinny, wear flattering clothes/colors and BAM, men will say she is the hottest woman ever.
And I agree, men are flexible in a lot of aspects, but weight/body type is not one of them.
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Yeah, I’m sure you’re so much hotter than Ann Hathaway (this is sarcasm). Okay, you didn’t claim to be, but seriously, what is the point of comments like this? Men don’t sit around whining that women think Brad Pitt is hot.
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If your photo set is as you say I would relax a bit. Most guys will react to a pretty face sure, but if they have any gray matter between their ears will look past the physical to make some determination that you are a worthwhile person to date or at least contact. If they are truly totally fixated on looks you wouldn’t want them anyways!
I do think online dating has lost a lot of its allure do to the ease to put up a profile and go fishing.
There was an interesting study done of the response rates to online dating profiles:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/results-from-an-online-dating-experiment/
The take away is that the women who have even reasonable looks get way more responses than the guys do.
My feeling is now that online dating is an interesting option, but the tried and true social networking will result in the best outcome. An online profile is a sales brochure designed to get the “appointment”………..the rest is up to you on the actual “sales call” i.e., the date. YMMV !
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You are quite right about…. “I do think online dating has lost a lot of its allure” Things sure have changed quite a lot from 10 years ago!
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There is no reason why a person should feel they have to look beyond anything.
There is no reason not to date someone who values attractiveness.
People who who value attractiveness are not stupid.
Good looking people are not necessarily shallow or unkind.
Less attractive people are not necessarily deeper or kinder.
Where do these myths come from?
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OP- If you have just so-so looks but a great body then you should be able to get a lot of dates and responses. Maybe you live in a low population area? I dont kow. But if your body is as good as you say it is then soemthing else is afoot. A hot body will trump even a below average face for many guys. Not all of them mind you, but a large amount- me included.
Focus on some guys who list fitness, or gym or weight training as an interest. Every guy I know that is into working out will consider a woman hot if she has a great butt. Moxie’s story about her guy friend saying the same thing proves that point.
You dont have to wear anything overly revealing for a guy to tell you are in good shape. A full body shot of wearing tight jeans or those form fitting leggings will certainly make you attractive to many guys.And if you go iut with them and have a great personality to boot, then you should do OK.
Now if you are doing all of that and still strinking out, then there must be something else going on.
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ISOf16-Dan, sheath is a form-fitting dress (throught the body) without sleeves that is sort of like a cockatil dress but is more work-friendly. It hits right above the knee and really accentuates one’s shape. Very feminine yet not vulgar by any means.
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I think the same thing applies to men being viewed by women online. A guy will get far less responses if he is not that attractive – what ever that means to various women. But the point is, there are many guys that are considered “unattractive” to a majority of women. Any guy online who do not get a lot of replies will know what I mean.
While on the subject of attractiveness of women who are online, I have known many attractive women who are online. Since they are so attractive, why do they need to be online? Among those who I know, the vast majority of them have been conditioned to think that they want to be in a relationship, but as pointed out in various other posts on this blog, these attractive women really should not be on there: they have commitment issues, are too choosy, etc. I see a lot of them are still reappearing online after many years.
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Fun, fit and feminine goes a long way with a lot of guys. Lots of women manage the latter two, but forget to highlight the first one. Does OP’s profile indicate she’s fun, either through the text or pics? The fun, quirky types are always my favorites. Any man that says he would stay with a beautiful woman even if she was kind of dull has likely never dated a dull, beautiful woman.
OP doesn’t need to become one of the Marx Bros. to demonstrate fun. Maybe just a fashion forward / quirky sense of style? Show it off in the pics. Smiles / laughing pics. Always good.
One other thing stuck out in OP’s letter. “…and have refined my text so that it shows what I offer a man.” Moxie has written on this in the recent past but it always bears repeating: what makes a woman attracted to man is generally not what triggers a man’s interest in a woman. So if what OP “has to offer a man” looks like what women often want from a man, an edit may be in order. Hopefully not and I’m just a bit off base. Good luck.
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I’m not sure what age you put, but you might consider shaving 2 years off your age..opens up the search results a bit more. Also, agree with Moxie – everyone gets the sketchy email. I think it is good that you are working on meeting people offline, but I wouldn’t totally give up on online either – the leave all options open concept. Put photos that show your body – like the sheath idea, but not overshow..highlight great legs, butt. I am not particularly photogenic either, but a pic of me laughing/smiling seems to get the best results as does a pic at the beach in a coverup but showing long tall legs…
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OP:
It sounds like you are trying to do all the right things and doing them in the right way.
As you say, your profile seems to initially attract some men, but most of the interest seems to be mostly those seeking a quick roll in the hay. Yet you also suggest that offline seems to be working more in your favor.
One way or another, it really seems that there is not much else you can do to improve your profile and increase your chances despite the efforts you have made. If you are inclined to agree with that thinking, then it would seem a better use of your time to focus on offline more and use the online portion only modestly. Go with what works and focus your efforts on things that are providing positive results. If something doesn’t seem to be working all that well despite modifications or changes then you should expect low yield results to continue. No matter what tweaking you do.
Sorry to be blunt about that, , but in the context of the online marketplace, what you present does seem to be your best option out there.
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It’s really not that hard for a woman to improve her appearance. Generally this happens when the woman isn’t feminine enough. She needs to start wearing heels, more make-up, maybe more accessories or jewelry, and have her hair styled attractively/professionally.
Many women tend to underestimate how important a feminine appearance (especially heels/makeup) is to men.
Edit: I see that the exact same thing was mentioned by the commenter “Erin” above.
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