Name: Denny Laine
Age: 44
State: New York City
Question: I recently started talking with an OKcupid woman who I’ve been e-mailing with for a week. Things were going great and we finally made an appointment to meet. Before hanging up though she said “Just to let you know, I just got out of a 10 year relationship.” I didn’t know what to say but “OK.” I didn’t know what to make of that. What did that have anything to do with me? With us? Shouldn’t we start out fresh when meeting possible mates? Should I admire her for having a relationship last that long? Or should I question her for ending a relationship that lasted a long time? Do I give myself 10 years with her to see if we would make a different kind of couple? When I meet someone, I like to think we’re starting out fresh. I would answer any question they may have from “how long was your longest relationship?” to “why do you think it failed?” I would answer absolutely anything and everything and be totally honest. I understand it’s not about me, that she’s just trying to get a picture of what WE would be like in the future. But I wouldn’t saddle anyone with something like that when first meeting them. Was that supposed to be a warning to me, a total stranger looking to see her in good faith, starting out fresh? Any thoughts?
Age: 44
State: New York City
Wow. Okay. First, slow down. You haven’t even met this woman an already you’re thinking in terms of “we.” You are over-thinking this, which is almost certain to lead to you psyching yourself out.
She told you about her break-up for two reasons:
1. Because she’s probably a bit of a mess and didn’t know not to say that.
2. To warn you that she’s a bit of a mess and that you shouldn’t get your hopes up.
Her lack of self-awareness will inevitably cause problems down the road.
Personally, someone like this would present a degree of difficulty that does not interest me. I’d bail.
I would answer any question they may have from “how long was your longest relationship?” to “why do you think it failed?” I would answer absolutely anything and everything and be totally honest.
You’ve written several letters to me complaining that you can’t seem to find a girlfriend and that women think you’re “too nice.” This is why. You have to understand that when women ask you these kinds of questions there’s a reason and it’s not just curiosity. They want to find things out about you to eventually use against you in some way. Women ask men these questions in an attempt to exert power over them. They’re trying to establish just how far they can push him. If you answer these questions in any kind of detail, you risk looking weak. That is what “too nice” actually means.
I understand it’s not about me, that she’s just trying to get a picture of what WE would be like in the future. But I wouldn’t saddle anyone with something like that when first meeting them.
That’s where you’re wrong. You do not factor into why she revealed this bit of information. You’re right. Nobody should ever saddle a prospective date with something that personal. It’s inappropriate. She lacks the social skills needed to know that. That’s what makes her a liability. A ten year relationship? Did they ever marry? Were they engaged? The potential bad judgment surrounding that scenario abounds. My guess is that she’s not looking for a relationship. She’s just looking to get back on the horse and have dates so she can feel more attractive. Same goes for men who offer such revelations. Except they’re also looking to get laid, since that’s what truly convinces a man that a woman finds him attractive.
This is why people should skip all the chit chat and decrease the amount of communicating they do before actually meeting someone in person. Inevitably someone says something stupid or inappropriate. You have to remember that everything you say is being put under a microscope. That’s why you should avoid discussing, among other things, dating/relationship history. That topic is a minefield and gives people far too much ammunition. The whole subject should be avoided until the two people have established a level of trust and intimacy. Let them get a first hand sense of who you are in a relationship before you tell them about who you were in other relationships.
“‘Just to let you know, I just got out of a 10 year relationship.’ I didn’t know what to say but “OK.” I didn’t know what to make of that. What did that have anything to do with me?”
She is ashamed of it and insecure and is revealing that to you because, she thinks, you may judge her for it and it’s not something she revealed in her online profile. Like, oh by the way, I’m really 42 even though my profile says I’m 39. Now, it’s on you to decide whether her revelation is important. That’s it.
“That’s why you should avoid discussing, among other things, dating/relationship history.”
Ah, the best laid plans. A conversation often has a life of its own and it’s impossible for one person unilaterally to control it. As a bachelor in my 40′s, I usually have a pat answer to the “last relationship” question. “I was in a relationship that lasted a little over a year. I met her online actually. This was about two years ago.” I say this because women dating a person like me are most concerned that I’m a perpetual bachelor manchild who is incapable of a serious relationship and will troll online dating sites forever. This story allays their fears. If you’re too vague, they won’t believe you.
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Thanks for that. My policy has always been, a first meeting should be about us as a potential couple. I would definitely put out my age, if I want to have kids or not, religion, and other things that may or may not be considered red flags. But as far as dating history or habits, each person is different. Any date can ask me absolutely anything and everything and I would answer truthfully, but I would never put anything about past relationships unasked, it’ll just make it seem like I’m still hung out on those exes. Or even worse: they might not even care.
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I think she disclosed this information to you because she hasn’t dated in 10 years and possibly feels a bit nervous and awkward about doing it after all these years. If she “just” got out of that relationship, telling you may be a kind of disclaimer, ie: she isn’t looking for something serious right now per se. She may also be aware that some people are leery of dating others “just” out of relationship. Sometimes people recently out of a relationship still wish they were in that relationship. They haven’t taken the time to psychologically truly move on from it. They may be too emotionally shaky to be a good potential partner to someone else quite yet. Sometimes a breakup turns out to be only a break and the couple gets back together. Sometimes the first person one dates after a breakup turns out to be the “transitional person”.
I don’t think the woman did anything wrong by telling you she was recently out of a relationship. She essentially put the ball in your court as to whether or not YOU would feel comfortable dating her now that you have that info. It’s your own reaction I find curious: why are you so put off/put out by her disclosure?
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Yeah I think this is a big part of it. I remember I once kissed a girl and she got a little awkward about it. Later she confessed that I was the first guy she had kissed in years.
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If she wasn’t looking for something serious right now, she could have said that instead. So she put the ball in my court? We just met for the first time and already we’re playing games? Was she still on emotionally shaky ground? Does she still wish she was back in that relationship? Maybe she should do herself and her potential dates a favor and not go out yet and sort out herself first. I was disappointed that she put it out there right away because it’s a sign that, to me, this potential relationship is going to be all about her. That was really the main reason. Before I’ve asked and have accepted answers such as “I was engaged once” and “my last relationship lasted 10 years.” They were totally fine. I asked, I got answers! But to put it out there as a warning, was such a turn off.
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Disappointing? Maybe. But if she felt the need to tell you that, it sounds like she did you a favor. It was likely designed to be a turn-off, in a sense. Or at least a warning. Some guys wouldn’t care. Hell, some would think “Sweet! This’ll be an easy lay.” (Which may or may not be accurate, but that’s a separate issue.) You took it as a turn-off. She probably knows on some level that some guys will take it exactly as you did and walk away. That’s probably why she said it.
So, what’s the end result? You don’t go out with her, and that’s a disappointment because she probably seemed attractive enough at the outset. But consider the alternative. You could’ve gone out with her for a few dates or several weeks, or even longer, and eventually hit some wall where she tells you “I thought I could handle this, but I’m just not ready to get serious again.” Or she tells you she’s getting back together with her ex. Or she tells you she can’t do it because you remind her too much of her ex. Or you’re not enough like her ex. Or any number of other things could go wrong. You’ve now dodged all of that and are free to move on. So, as I said, it sounds like she did you a favor.
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It was a turnoff but I still wanted to meet her. We made several attempts to meet (she lived in Westfield, NJ, I live in Manhattan) but eventually we just faded away from each other’s radars. I definitely would have at least met her. The last I heard she moved to North Carolina, so that was that.
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If you were looking for something serious, you were better off not meeting her. She probably wasn’t ready for something like that (which would partially explain why she told you at all), and if she up and moved several hundred miles south, she probably wasn’t that settled in her life at that time.
I’ve tried dating someone relatively recently out of a long term relationship. In that case, the girl in question was about 3-ish months out of a 2-year relationship where she’d lived with the guy. Not quite as big a deal as a 10-year relationship, but still significant. Things went quite well with her for something like a month and a half, at which point she got freaked out that things between us were getting too close to being serious and realized she wasn’t anywhere near as ready to find something serious as I was. So, that fizzled.
I also encountered a woman a few months back who had moved to my city to keep dating a guy she’d been with for three years (having done that long distance) and to get a short-term job as a judicial clerk, only to have the relationship fall apart some 2-3 months before I ran into her. On our first date, in spite of having written in her profile that she was looking for long-term dating, she said “I don’t know how capable I am of feeling just yet.” I was sympathetic and appreciated her honesty…but I knew it wouldn’t have worked. She wasn’t ready for something serious, although she claimed to want it.
I tend to think these folks don’t quite know what they want. They want attention and affection. They want to have a nice time out on dates, certainly. They often (but not always) want a little sex, too. But past that, it gets far more muddled. They don’t usually want to risk their feelings being hurt again. They also may not trust their own judgment, particularly if they think they should’ve left the last relationship sooner. As a result, in relationships (if you end up in one) they can behave kind of selfishly, even if it isn’t a conscious decision. They want the perks of a relationship without the pressures or risks of one, and that’s just not possible. I’ve found it can take up to a year for that internal conflict to finally get resolved.
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Denny,
my experience is with offline dating and most often follows this scenario: man comes up to me in a social setting and we start chatting. Within 15 min he asks, “So, do you have a husband, boyfriend?” I reply and counter, “You?”. Sometimes that’s as far as that line of inquiry goes. Asking the status question early on gives each person a chance to elaborate though if they choose to. An example of this might be: “I’m recently out of a relationship and trying to get out there and meet new people.” Or: ” I’ve been divorced for____ . I’ve been dating, but haven’t gotten into anything serious so far.” I don’t consider such disclosures TMI. It’s just giving someone a snapshot of where you are at without going into details with a total stranger. That’s what I see your OKCupid woman doing. I don’t think she is delivering a warning as much as she is relating a fact. One that would lcome out anyway should the two of you hit it off and start dating. It isn’t playing games. She is being upfront. It sounds like you would rather she not be upfront. Would you prefer she told you on your fifth date she was just out of a 10 year relationship? I fail to see how that would be better.
I have never asked/been asked the question “So why did your relationship fail?” In my world, such a question is very rude. Unthinkable really coming from someone one just met, or had yet to meet. Those are the kind of things lovers may eventually talk to each other about, not prospective dates. If someone where to ask me that, I would think them simultaneously uncouth, bitter toward their ex and in “all women are ____this” mode, looking for something to critisize about me, possibly has aspbergers syndrome. An immediate turn off all the way around.
It sounds like you have decided not to meet her which may be the best course anyway.
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My view on this sort of thing has changed over the years.
I would have said its not a big deal and its just something she blurted out and I do sort of think that. You have to take people as you find them, not as you wish them to be.
However, there is a sort of person who ‘warns’ you that is bad news. Sometime in the future when you’ve been turned inside outside and left by the side of the road she’ll shrug and say “WELL I DID TELL YOU”.
I wish I knew what a person is supposed to do.
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The majority of people who find themselves single at some point over 35 have gone through a breakup. Somehow they managed to weather the storm. And not everyone is a hot mess after a breakup either. The ‘liability’ in getting involved with someone freshly single is that you aren’t going to know where their head is unless you bother to spend time getting to know them. Do you bother? That is the question.
I think the warning, if we need to call it that, is more like “buyer beware” “proceed with caution”. And it’s something we define based on what we see and have experienced ourselves. If one has dated someone for awhile and found they were merely that person’s rebound, or watched them get back with their ex…they may be naturally reluctant to get involved with another person “just out of a relationship”, or “married, but separated”.
One can be turned ” inside outside and left by the side of the road” by anyone though. That is not something exclusive to the recently single.
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I think it depends on what you’re looking for, really. The liability may be pretty serious if you want to find something long-term. People recently out of breakups are NOT ready to get back into a relationship that soon. It takes a while to process the breakup. In my experience, people who are recently post-breakup either adamantly don’t want something serious, or think they do but aren’t really ready for it. Either basically means that long-term isn’t a realistic possibility, so, yeah, in that sense, they’re a liability.
If you’re looking for something short-term or casual, though, a recently broken up person might be just the thing. Chances are they won’t be ready to open up emotionally, but they’ll be up for some casual fun (and by that, I mean across the board, not just sex). Although, even then, a recently broken up person maybe kind of “junkie-like” and end up wanting the feeling they had in a relationship. The stability, the certainty, the degree of affection. That may lead them, even in a casual dating context, to want more.
With the OP, it sounds like we’re more in the former situation. He sounds like he wants more than just casual dating (given that his instinct is to wonder about the implications of this woman’s statement on his and her future couplehood), so yeah, this is a liability, if that’s what he wants, and he should probably steer clear. If he’s up for just showing her a good time but not having it get serious, hey, go for it, but otherwise find a more receptive audience.
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Great points D.
I’ve known some people who’ve gone from one serious relationship into another fairly quickly, without undue angst, but that seems far less common than the scenarios you outlined.
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Thanks. My thinking is, when you’re looking to date, you want to put your best foot forward. Of course you should share your essentials, preferences and red flags with each other early on, maybe even before meeting. But as far as dating experiences and past relationships, I think that’s something that should be discussed in a natural way as you go along. I know I may be overthinking this but there’s a difference between: “Just to let you know my last relationship lasted 10 years” and Q: How long was your last relationship? A: 10 years Q: Mine was 11. Just my 3 cents.
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I think my point is that some people think that the normal rules about just being a decent person are suspended so long as they said some magic words as an aside earlier in the relationship. Like I say, this surprises me because I don’t think the world works that way and it isn’t how I’d behave but bitter experience has suggested there are people who think otherwise.
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I hear ya. I think it can go both ways though. Some people either don’t hear, or ignore what someone tells them early in dating. Example: a man or woman tells the person they meet they aren’t looking for something serious right now. Their date is apparently cool with that since they continue to accept subsequent dates. Until it becomes obvious that the person is behaving as though the relationship IS serious, or trying to maneuver it in that direction. What’s up with that?
Did they pretend to be okay with casual to get their foot in the door so to speak? Did they think they were cool with casual and changed their mind? Or did they just discount what the other person said in beginning ? Conveniently “forgot” they said they weren’t looking for something serious?
Regardless, no matter how gently one tries to extricate themselves in such a situation, the person who wanted serious is going to be upset, maybe angry. The “magic words” didn’t apply to them surely. Uh…yeah. They did.
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Gawd knows what this might mean. Anything really. It may be a real ‘liability’ or just a kind of ‘due warning’ that she’s rusty/’recovering’/hesitant which might just describe any 1st date for a person of this vintage. No biggie. Worse, far worse? Consider some Real Dating Liabilities:
1.) ‘Just fair warning, I’m on parole now, and my hours are still limited’.
2.) Related: ‘We just can’t walk or linger near schools or playgrounds as a condition of my parole’.
3.) ‘I’m scared, so if I gave you the cash, could you buy me a gun so they can’t get to me?’
4.) ‘I’m in recovery (again!) from substance abuse/’long term abusive, co-dependent relationship’.
5.) ‘And I’ve been bankrupt many times as well’. (Yes, even & especially from The Donald’!)
6.) ‘I’m a single mom/dad & my kids are the most important thing to me, you’ll just have to manage to deal with that fact’.
7.) ‘I’m still living at home with my parents’ AND have never really moved out or lived independently in years’.
8.) ‘I’ve got serious psychiatric issues/ psychotic episodes/self harm etc, but I’m sorta getting treatment now’.
9.) ‘Im still married’/In a stable LTR & Not separated, legally or otherwise’.
10). ‘I’m wanted in (X) for (Felony here) but (long convoluted BS nonsense excuse here), so it’s OK.’
Those are some real and well known liabilities. The rest is just ‘trifiling stuff. Cheers, ‘VJ’
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Ha! Or something like “I’m still ‘Michael’ today, call me ‘Michelle’ after the surgery!
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Thanks andthatswhyyouresingle, that was a very well thought out way of putting things. Spot on! – DL
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I think when someone says they are just out of a 10 year relationship, its because they dont want to be involved with anyone seriously. SO I would look at her profile and see whether she said mentioned she is “looking for a relationship” or just “causal dating”.
If she said casual dating and she made her 10 year statement then that is consistent. But if she says she is looking for a relationship and then says the comment, then there is an inconsistency. People dont think they are mess when they enter the online dating world. They think they are fine. But others can tell they are not. So I dont think its a case of her mindset being “I may not be good at this dating thing after so much time so let me tell a perspective partner this so they know that upfront”.
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This one is tough. I’d give it a chance but keep your options open and don’t get invested too soon because the odds aren’t good.
I started dating again a while back after getting out of a very dysfunctional long-term relationship – not quite 10 years but close. Obviously the situation was f’d up and I bore the responsibility of having stuck with it that long. Now, at that point I was finally totally done with the guy and was not going to go back to him, but that’s always a possibility with these types of things. But, I didn’t know anything about dating and was a total idiot. I really needed at least a year to be myself and get my head together. Jumping right back into a relationship would have been a bad idea. And, I knew better than to tell anyone I had just gotten out of an x-year relationship. I just kept it to myself because I knew it made me look bad and I didn’t want to have to explain.
So the fact that this woman brought it up does indeed, in my opinion, demonstrate a lack of social and dating awareness / skills, and ALSO, I think, indicates that she may want to actually *discuss it* with you, which is an awful idea and would suggest she’s not over it. I mean, no way is she over it at this point. She’s not ready to date and will probably be a headache and more trouble than she’s worth.
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