Going Down?

February 4th, 2013

Article Roundup, Dating, Oral Sex, Sex

Article Roundup time!

Read this do you’re up to speed.

From the article:

It’s one thing to just not eat a pussy once or twice. Sometimes you’re doing other things and it doesn’t come up. I’m talking about these guys who barely even LOOK at your pussy, like you could bang this dude for a year and he would never once even get below your ribcage.

They should at least pretend, like that thing I always did on dates where I half-reached into my bag even though I knew the dude I was with was going to cover the bill. Act like you’re on your way down there but you just got distracted by the sweet Portishead mix or whatever. I don’t even love getting my pussy eaten, but it’s a matter of common courtesy, like being polite to waiters. 

After all, he doesn’t know I don’t love it. I don’t always want you to eat my pussy, but I want you to want to eat my pussy, you know?

I knew before I even read the comments how the thread was going to go. Lots and lots of braying about how no way, no how would she date someone who didn’t go down on her. Which, sorry, is bullshit. Really? If they quality of your sexual relationship with someone was great with that one exception, you’d dump him? You’re so ballsy! You’d “never” date a man who didn’t enjoy going down on you? What a crock. “My guy does it 3 times a week!” “Well my boyfriend can’t get enough!”  Oooh…competition! Seriously. What would women like this do if the internet didn’t exist for them to brag about their relationships and sex lives? How would they find women to dump on so they can make themselves feel better?

Here’s what’s really messed up: if a woman ever said she never went down on a guy because she didn’t like it, people would swarm around her and tell her that she doesn’t have to do anything she doesn’t want to do, etc. Which, of course,she doesn’t. But if guys are expected to go down, then it would seem only fair if the same expectation was placed on women.

Then there are the comments where one woman admits she’s not all that fond of receiving oral and she’s shamed for it. “What?? He must not be doing it right!” Translation: All the men I’ve been with have been masters at oral therefore I’m better than you.

I often hear men say that they “love” going down on their partner. Yet I rarely hear the same coming from a woman, despite the fact that performing oral on a man is far easier than doing so to a woman. I honestly think that the main motivating factor involved with really enjoying this particular act is skill. If you’re good at it, you love doing it. If you’re not – or fear you’re not – you don’t. When women would talk about how degrading fellatio was, I always suspected that they just were insecure about their abilities or doing that adorable slut shaming thing. It’s fascinating to watch how so many women get defensive and even insulting when confronted with another woman who enjoys sex. You never see that kind of reaction from or amongst men. You just don’t. A woman who enjoys sex is a threat to most women. It’s as simple as that.

As for the topic itself, sans all the catty intra-gender competitiveness, I’m curious as to how everybody else feels. Would you continue to date someone – male or female – if they refused to go down on you?

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114 Responses to “Going Down?”

  1. M Says:

    actually i m dating a guy that doesnt go down….. he did it a couple of times , for like a min or less and once of those times he was drunk.
    And actually ….. i dont know what to tell you…… cuz sometimes i dont even like guys go down but……

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  2. Roxy Says:

    The reason you don’t often hear women say they love to go down on a man is because… well… we dont.

    I’m sure there are some women out there who do enjoy it, but in general I bet most don’t.

    One thing I do think is that women are more willing to go down on a man than men are willing to go down on a women.

    I don’t have a good explanation, it’s just the sense that I get… so Moxie I’d love your thoughts.

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    • ivan Says:

      the reason why men dont enjoy going down is because the smell. That is why i hear guys say that. I personally dont care as long as the woman cleans her self. I also had an ex when i would go down her she didnt want me to kiss her. she didnt like the smell. I was shocked i figure woman didnt mind there own smell. guys are all external woman though are internal. So the smell of vagina is gonna happen. Its not bad its the juices that start to come or ( cum ) out that has an odor. Some woman dont swallow a mans load because they say it taste bad and makes them wana puke. I think its more of a texture thing for those woman. I saw a program that teaches girls to be more like royalty. any way one thing they had to learn to eat was raw clams because these boys they will meet eat that on a regular basis. but the girls didnt like it I assume the same texture in the mouth of raw clams is the same as men ejaculation.

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      • ISOf16 Says:

        >b>”Its not bad its the juices that start to come or ( cum ) out that has an odor” – I would say if those juices have a bad odor, then the woman has a medical problem. Normally they do not have an offensive odor. That is my finding when head south for a taco treat.. and I have also read that.

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        • Rosie Says:

          As a woman that actually likes going down (maybe I’m good, hahahaha) I can tell you that most of the guys I’ve dated liked going down on me. Maybe it was a reciprocation thing, but I’ve never ran into a guy not wanting to go down on me because of the smell.

          If there’s fishy smell, I’m sure a call to your doctor and maybe a round of antibiotics is needed.

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      • Kurt Says:

        When I was in college, I tried doing it to a girlfriend whom I dated for a year, but it smelled so rank down there that I feel sick! Plus, the fact that I really had no idea what I was doing at that time didn’t help.

        However, I have also had other girlfriends since then who had almost no odor down there, so it wasn’t unpleasant at all and it was actually fun because those girls liked it so much.

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  3. Marshmallow Says:

    I was dating a guy and he wouldn’t. I preferred that he did but sex was good otherwise. I know the great Dan Savage would disagree, especially because he enjoyed getting it but I don’t think it should make or break a relationship.

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  4. Trix Says:

    I think experienced partners *tend* to enjoy a lot of the fairly basic activities involved in sex because they enjoy getting their partner off. I mean, hell, there are activities I could take or leave, but if they really turn my partner on? Sure, I can rally for that. I mean, I’m turned on by them being turned on, so why be a stickler about some stupid bull shit?

    I think that no one, male or female, should be shamed or emotionally manipulated into participating in sexual activities they don’t want to. Sexual coercion on any end is unhealthy in a relationship. Period.

    HOWEVER, I think that if you have certain things that are part of your list that leads to you being sexually compatible and satisfied, you should find someone who fits that bill. That includes anything from whether or not they are going down to how often they would like to have sex (once you get past that honeymoon phase), etc.

    One thing, though: Any adult man who thinks that cunts are “gross” or that they just “smell bad” (not in terms of an actual comment on an individual’s hygiene, but overall they think that vaginas are icky gross things that they don’t really want to deal with other than sticking it in) is an immature person. Anyone who flips out about it, rather than expressing a lack of interest in it, is uncool. (Note: I’m not saying that’s the gentleman discussed in this article, but I have seen it happen.)

    Adults have genitals. Sometimes they are hairy, sometimes they smell (hello have you ever smelled balls at the end of a long day?), and sometimes they’re messy. If you don’t prefer to have certain interactions with that, or only want to interact with it under circumstances, cool. That’s fine. But to go EW GROSS and throw a hissy fit? Ugh.

    Anyway, I think this particular aspect of the “YOU GO GIRL GET UR PLEASURE” thing is just blowback from that kind of dude. It is an unfortunate response, especially since it seems to be the response to EVERYTHING these days, and is endlessly ANNOYING. In general, I don’t trust anyone who insists they have a laundry list of must haves or must dos in their partners; I think they usually have an unrealistic perspective and haven’t grown up enough to realize that if you find someone who is rad and fits 9/10 on your list, compromising that one thing ain’t a crime.

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    • chester Says:

      You judge a man’s reason for not wanting to perform oral sex as immature. Why are you not judging a woman’s reason for not wanting to perform oral sex as being immature? If a woman thinks pleasing man is demeaning, isn’t this just as immature?

      I heard this analogy: a woman giving oral is like sucking on a finger. A guy giving oral is like licking the anus. A guy has to endure a lot more than a woman in giving pleasure to the partner.

      Oral sex is about pleasing your partner. The real pleasure a giver gets is seeing his partner being pleased. There is no intrinsic pleasure the giver is getting from the sensations on their tongue. If they don’t care about their partner and are only in it for themselves, they are probably not gong to enjoy it that much.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Speak for yourself, conehead. I’m sorry you had to “endure” that close encounter with a vagina.

        Unbelievable.

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      • Trix Says:

        1. Apparently you didn’t read the rest of my comment, which talks about in general, both folks who refuse to go down.

        2. The vagina is a HELL of a lot different than an anus, and sucking dick is not much like sucking on a finger. I suggest you revisit your sex education class to learn the difference. Or you could just try them all and see for yourself.

        Either way: No.

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      • Kurt Says:

        I am laughing my ass off! Was this comment meant to be a joke? I never heard anyone claim that licking a pussy is equivalent to licking a butt hole!

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        • chester Says:

          My friend made that analogy a little while ago. I thought it was funny. But the point is that we guys have to contort our neck and subject ourselves to an array of fluids ( Some of which have been linked to throat cancer). Our tool is out in the open, and most of the oral sex ends in an ejaculation in her pussy, not her mouth.

          And one girl I dated tasted soy bad down there, the butt hole was quite an improvement!

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  5. Trix Says:

    WHOA. Sorry. I honestly didn’t realize that turned into a novel before posting.

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  6. Andy Says:

    As someone once said, you can define power by how much oral sex you receive.

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    • Eliza Says:

      Andy–is that so? wow…then in my situation…I am one powerball of a woman! lol…because my boyfriend usually initiates and wants to go down on me. Never indifferent about it or against it…and for me, it’s more of an emotional connection…like sex. For me, it’s all about the man I am with, if I am really into him, I am turned on by him physically every which way, I actually want to go down on him, and enjoy pleasing and watching him get off…the more turned on he gets, the more turned on I get. As for hygiene…I just like being a “girly girl”–and will be very hygenic, shave, put creams/lotions, get all done up if I know he is coming over/staying over and we are going to get intimate…you want to set the mood right, so you prepare. I guess it matters for some men and not for others–for a woman to be clean shaven, smelling nice – “all over”–not just her neck. Never met a man that refused to go down. Odd.

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    • WO7 Says:

      I’d have to disagree. I find giving oral sex to a woman empowering to me. The person who is orgasming is the one who temporarily loses control, at the actions of you, the person in control.

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  7. fuzzilla Says:

    >Would you continue to date someone – male or female – if they refused to go down on you?<

    I highly doubt it. As I mentioned in a previous comment, I compromised a shit-ton sexually in a prior relationship. I love giving and receiving and I just can't see not feeling resentful about a partner who refused me this pretty basic thing.

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  8. Jonathon Factory Says:

    Honestly, a lot of it depends on whether the lady is well-maintained. In saying that, I mean general hygiene more than shaving and such, but shaving is a big deal for a lot of guys. I remember the first girl I went down on when I was a teen. Not fresh. Not fun. It was awful. I didn’t go back there for quite awhile and never again on her. Somewhere in college I wound up with a girl that was very sweet tasting. I couldn’t get enough and, with only a couple of exceptions, I haven’t had a problem since. Other guys I’ve talked to have shared similar experiences, so I’ll pose a question:

    Vaginas seem to be high-maintenance pieces of equipment. Is it possible the maintenance routine takes a bit of time to learn and doesn’t get sorted out until late teen / college years? Perhaps he’s still reeling from a bad early experience?

    If you’re with a guy that hates it, are you doing everything you can to take away his objections? shaving? freshness, (however that happens)? Also, are you expecting oral after a sweaty night at the club after you’ve been drip-drying over the toilet because there wasn’t any toilet paper? That’s not going to help matters.

    Additionally, before everyone goes apeshit, I recognize it works both ways and guys shouldn’t expect too much oral if they can’t keep their junk clean.

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    • Eliza Says:

      Jonathon–i fully agree. It’s a 2-way street. And yes, going down – either for man or woman – IS more pleasing when one’s partner pays attention to hygiene, and perhaps goes that extra mile to maintain themselves – down south – by not only shaving, but using lotions, creams. And yes, if you are working out intensely and sweating heavily–and didn’t shower and freshen up, I would understand someone being hesitant to get that close…you want to be alluring and enticing. Foul odor are none of those. Basically…the same principles apply to intimacy enticing – as it were to apply to dating. Most men I have spoken with say they appreciate a woman that takes very good care of herself…her body (exercise), hair (healthy), mani/pedi, skin (soft to the touch), nice smile/teeth–and a little female-scaping never hurts…or manscaping either. If my partner matters to me…it’s worth all the time and effort to look/smell my best. All that should not go out the window after you have been with someone for a while. Personal grooming for me is something I actually love to do – for myself, not just my partner.

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      • Rosie Says:

        Really, lotions? creams? That sounds like a UTI or a yeast infection waiting to happen.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Jesus. Thank you. Another tell. If you’re having sex regularly and having someone go down on you regularly, shaving and waxing and lotioning and all that usually isn’t something a woman can do every single time.

          Any guy who only goes down on a woman if she’s freshly showered and shaved does not go down on women regularly. And any woman who waxes on about how much her boyfriend goes down on her while at the same time blathers about her lotions, potions and cremes and how delicious her vagina smells is also not getting it on the regs.

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          • Eliza Says:

            Learn to read. Nobody is saying they are getting it regularly. And regularly for one person may be defined different for another. It’s all relative. For me, regularly is a few times a week. All that has been posted is the idea of enjoying the whole prepping, showering and applying lotion because it enhances the experience (and by that – I mean the whole intimacy experience, that may lead to going down)…and not in a way that would cause an UTI…never heard such a thing. One gets UTI’s from rough sex, or other factors…not by applying a lotion to their legs, hip, etc. Where did anyone post how “delicious” their vagina smelled? Ridiculous. Secondly, showering daily is not a huge big ordeal. Especially after a workout? If you work out regularly – and sweat…one would think a quick 5 minute shower is a given. Just to be hygienic. Geez. Live and let live. Everyone is entitled to their preferences and indulgences–as well as opinions–this is a blog – no? Some people do enjoy pampering themselves. Why be judgmental and berate others for posting their mere “opinions”. wow.

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            • Rosie Says:

              Eliza- this is what made me think you were using lotions in your vagina. I quote: “and perhaps goes that extra mile to maintain themselves – down south – by not only shaving, but using lotions, creams. ”

              “down south” is an euphemism for vagina, no?

              And yes, you could get a UTI from using lotions/creams in your vagina.

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              • Eliza Says:

                Rosie- Oh. No, when I stated “down south” (merely meant below the hip area)..not inside the genital area. The only safe solution to use internally would be to use a specific “wash/douche”. And I don’t find it necessary to do that constantly.

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    • LaMotta Says:

      I don’t think it’s just a matter of maintenance… like the gut, poon can be subject to different microbial flora populations that have different fragrances (though they may all be within “healthy” bounds).

      I once dated a girl for a long while who was, well, on the fragrant side. She then was on antibiotics for something unrelated, and her “bouquet” down there totally changed (it was much milder).

      Anyways, I like giving oral to the ladies, if they are at all into it. I expect some “scent” — after all, isn’t that part of the attraction, if its within reason?

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  9. CK Says:

    Actually, a lot of the comments on the “I don’t like oral” article are from women who relate to the writer and are excited that they’re not alone. I didn’t see enough competitive/bitchy comments to necessitate Moxie’s judgmental generalizations about women.

    Also: To women, Moxie says here “You’d “never” date a man who didn’t enjoy going down on you? What a crock.”
    But to the male OP from 1/9/2013 who isn’t receiving oral from his girlfriend, Moxie says “If she cared for you, she’d at least try.  I’m just not sure how connected you and she could be when your relationship lacks such a fundamental form and expression of intimacy.”
    I realize that the 1/9/2013 post had a different context and thesis statement … but still, I’m getting mixed messages about how we should prioritize oral sex.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I realize that the 1/9/2013 post had a different context and thesis statement

      Right. In that post, the couple wasn’t having any sexual intercourse and the woman wasn’t reciprocating all that much if at all despite all the effort the guy was making to please her. The fundamental form of expression and intimacy being referred to in that post is sexual intercourse and reciprocity. If you’d like to further argue your point, go find the post and link to it in your comment.

      I’m getting mixed messages about how we should prioritize oral sex.

      If a woman likes oral and her partner refuses to even try – like the woman in the post you referred to – then that’s indicative of deeper issues. In which case, the disconnect isn’t about oral sex. It’s about the woman’s partner pretty obvious disinterest in pleasing her You want to dump someone for being selfish? Okay. That makes more sense than just dumping someone for not going down on you.

      Women like to make outlandish statements like that because it makes them sound all sassy and no-nonsense and in charge. What they won’t reveal is that they asked their guy to do it and he refused. That would reveal more about their relationship than they’d prefer. Then her judgment and self-esteem is put into question, taking away any sense of control she’d have if she just said she’d leave a guy for not going down on her.

      And yes, it’s a load of bullshit when a woman makes a broad declaration like she’d dump a guy if he didn’t go down on her. Especially when it’s done while amongst a gaggle of other women saying similar stupid shit. It’s said to convey a phony sense of empowerment and sexual confidence. If the other physical and emotional aspects of a relationship are satisfying, it’s short-sighted to say, without any doubt, you’d dump a guy for something like lack of oral sex. It’s said for shock value and nothing more.

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      • Tinker Says:

        Enjoying certain sex acts, like oral, is a part of sexual compatability. If a guy isn’t down to do something that is integral to my enjoyment in bed ( whether that is oral sex, different positions, toys, whatever) it is a very good reason to break up with him. It speaks to a lack of (sexual) compatability. I haven’t found that most women have these super bitchy and competitive motives and feelings that you say they do.

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  10. John Says:

    If a girl wants her man to go down on her, the formula is simple. Very little, if any, hair. And be showered relatively recently like within 5 or 6 hours. If you shower just prior to going to dinner and a movie on a Saturday night, then when you get back home, thats totally fine. But if you worked all day and took a shower at 6am and then wanted the guy to do downtown at 9pm when watching TV, then forget it.

    And it goes both ways. If a guy wants oral then he should be showered within 5 or 6 hours also. Otherwise if that wasnt possible, then just have sex and leave the oral until another time.

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    • Trix Says:

      “Very little, if any, hair.”

      I will tell that to my various partners that apparently they shouldn’t have gone down on me because GOODNESS FORBID that trimmed bush of mine should have repelled them right out the door.

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      • HammersAndNails Says:

        Depends what generation you are from. If you are 40+ you may be able to get away with it. If you are under 40, most guys are just too used to seeing more groomed vaginas. I’ve never even had to ask a women to take care of her vagina, it’s always just been done. I’ve seen one or two hairy bushes in my day but really anything more than a landing strip is an outlier.

        If anything, it’s just picking up more and more steam as lately I’ve been seeing a lot of lasered women, which is awesome.

        I wouldn’t kick you out of bed for it. If anything its a novelty, like watching 70’s porn.

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        • Trix Says:

          I’m in my mid-twenties, and it has seriously never been an issue for me with my partners. I have never, not once, had a partner turn me down when they found out I had a tuft of pubic hair (It’s not WILD 70’S BUSH, but it’s also not shaved or created into some fancy shape).

          I’ve had two partners who *preferred* things shaved. For one, I shaved for his birthday and we had plenty of fun afterward (worth it!). For the other, he shaved himself (almost completely), so I didn’t mind doing the same. I mean, why not? Neither of them, though, refused to go down on me or fuck me or touch me when I was bushy. Why? Because they like vaginas.

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          • WO7 Says:

            The fact that no one has turned you down for having a bush says nothing.

            A man would never turn sex down for that reason. Even if he hated bush. Worst case scenario, he would keep having sex with you until he found a woman who actually knew how to groom. Then he would dump you, and you would never know why.

            But most men prefer it. So perhaps you should do it for that reason, instead of being a stubborn self centered douche.

            I imagine that all the partners who have been with you spent some time fondly reminiscing about the women they have been with in the past who were actually well groomed…

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            • Trix Says:

              Hahahah! It makes me a “stubborn self-centered douche” to do what I want with my own pubic hair?

              You seemed to miss my other statement about being willing to compromise when it came to specific partners, but sure, I *do* prioritize my own preferences in regards to my own body, and no, I’m not sorry about it.

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    • Rosie Says:

      Really? I mean I trim down there, but “very little, if any “it’s just not normal. It might be ok and common on porn movies for it to be hairless, but vaginas are hairy in adults. Children, on the other hand….

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      • HammersAndNails Says:

        Full bushes makes me think of grandmothers and homeless people. Does shaving your underarms make you look like a child or a sexually mature adult who properly grooms herself?

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        • Rosie Says:

          I did say I trimmed right? yes, I did. I re-read it. And I do properly groom myself, thank you very much. However, men’s obsession with a hairless vagina is a little creepy. TO ME. Now, I’m calling my grandma to ask her if she keeps a full bush.

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      • LostSailor Says:

        Personally, I’m hoping the trend for pubic topiary catches on…

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      • WO7 Says:

        You’re speaking from what experience? Been with a lot of women have you?

        I’ve been with a good amount of women. I would say hairless is more than 50%.

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  11. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I never knew this was an issue. No, I would never date a woman who didn’t enjoy oral sex – giving and receiving. I’ve spent years studying this and the only thing I’ve learned is that women are very different. What works for one, doesn’t work for another so there is no “good at it” in a technical sense. I think the braying is sillyness and reflects this trend of people just lost in their own heads and not able to see the other person in the room. Being “good at it” is more about enthusiasm and being observant of the other person’s response.

    I always enjoy reading the “oral sex” commentary. You know the old SNL skit, the “Coneheads” where the family is so obviously from another planet but they’re trying to pretend they’re just an ordinary family from France? But they use the wrong words, etc. That’s how I feel about a lot of the commentary. These guys with all the requirements about shaving, and cleaning before oral sex. It’s a tell, in my opinion. Sure, everyone has different tastes and almost no one likes a real stinker. But if you find yourself generally repulsed by the genitalia of the opposite sex in its natural state you are revealing nothing but confusion about your own sexuality. I assure you, when you talk about your squeamishness about oral sex, we’re not all nodding in agreement.

    Or, maybe it’s just one of those NYC things.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      I’m glad a man said this. What response is there to give to “keep it clean, ladies” other than “umm. No shit, Sherlock”?

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  12. Leslie Says:

    I guess I’m one of those rare women who actually DOES enjoy going down on my man. Its actually more of a turn on for me as I feel I’m in control and enjoy being the one who can make him squirm.
    Yes, I enjoy a man going down on me and I understand that not all men enjoy it. I’d rather know that up front. I dated a man once who when we first had sex, he went right for the kitty (and he wasn’t very good at it actually)….then on our follow up sessions wouldn’t go “past the ribcage”. When I asked him about it he said claimed I was the 2nd woman he had ever done and even his long term girlfriend he didn;’t do it to (I don’t believe this by the way). What upset me was that he did it to me just to get me turned on…that’s like false advertising! We are adults, either you do or you dont, but either way, just be honest about it and claim your shit!

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  13. John Says:

    “These guys with all the requirements about shaving, and cleaning before oral sex. It’s a tell, in my opinion. :

    A tell? The only thing this tells is that some guys like it relatively showered and shaved. How you extrapolate that into this gem is beyond me:

    “But if you find yourself generally repulsed by the genitalia of the opposite sex in its natural state you are revealing nothing but confusion about your own sexuality”

    Moxie asked for input on how everyone feels about this topic. I gave mine. Dont make it more complicated than it is by insinuating someone must have sexual hangups because they like it a certain way. You dont mind a hairy bush or someone who isnt recently showered? Good for you. I guess that makes you so low maintenance. You win the prize.

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      Thank you.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Like DMN said, nobody likes a “real stinker.” (I’m literally giggling as I type that.) But I agree with him that guys who require a woman to be freshly shaved and washed typically do have hang ups. More specifically, they use that as an excuse not to do it. [Insert obligatory line about how I loooooooooooove going down on men and men tell me how sweet tasting I am.]

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      • John Says:

        I knew you would come to DMN’s defense as soon as someone challenges him,. You always do. LostSailor should be chiming in here about now too.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          Then present a better defense. Jesus. I agree with him. So sorry.

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          • John Says:

            A better defense? I dont look for reasons not to go down. If a girl is freshly showered and shaved I go down. If she isnt I dont. Anyone I was ever with had no problem with that at all. And of course the same standards applied to me as well- if I wanted to get then I made sure I was out of the shower, not after working out,.

            As for agreeing with DMN, I have no problem with that. What I was referring to is that I am sure you either agree or disagree with almost every comment that is posted. But you always come to his defense when challenged. Lord knows if you agreed with Eliza or Nathan but someone challenged them, you wouldnt chime in in defense of them. You have your cronies on here. And whenever someone in that circle gets challenged you circle the wagons with each other. Its certainly your right. But in your words, own it.

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            • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

              You’re right. I feel DMN contributes more value than the people you mentioned. I read his comments completely when they’re posted, which is why I often respond to them. The others? I don’t make it a point to read them as they come in, therefore I don’t reply to them as often.

              If a girl is freshly showered and shaved I go down. If she isnt I dont. Anyone I was ever with had no problem with that at all.

              Oh, well how awesome of you to eat a girl out as long as she has to go through all the work to get you there. Not sure how often you groom, dear, but shaving every day is kind of involved and not all that healthy for women. Between the tiny nicks and cuts that we get from shaving to the ingrown hairs to the itch factor, shaving isn’t something many women feel they need to do daily. Waxing lasts longer of course, but that isn’t something women do every week. Now, if you’re going down on a woman once a week or a couple times a month, that’s a different story. But, like DMN said, it’s also a tell.If you loved it as you say, you’d be doing it more than once or twice a week, stubble be damned.

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              • John Says:

                “Between the tiny nicks and cuts that we get from shaving to the ingrown hairs to the itch factor, shaving isn’t something many women feel they need to do daily”

                Stop whining. Guys who shave their genital area deal with the same things. I do and thats fair if you want oral. I dont expect a girl to shave it every day. But if I am going to see her, especially on the weekend, then thats realistic. And you have no problem going down on a guy even if he is unkempt and a little grungy? Well aren’t you so awesome.

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                • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                  Since the penis is external and not self-cleaning and since you don’t ovulate or menstruate or deal with maintaining Ph balance, no, it’s not the same thing. Not even close. More evidence you rarely get close to a vagina.

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                  • India Says:

                    I am lost by this line of argument. Self cleaning? Ph balance?? I am supposed to be putting a ph meter down stairs for some reason?? I am a woman but I assume shaving sucks just as much as for men as for women. The penis is external and doesn’t it make shaving harder? Imagine the consequences of an accidental nick!
                    Finally, yes men don’t menstruate. But let us try not to use menstruation to win arguments. Unless you have serious gyn issues, menstruation is a small annoyance and not some badge of hornor. How does menstrueation effect how much one grooms (hint – use a tampon).

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                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      I guess it depends on what/where you shave and how bare you go. I shouldn’t have to explain to a woman how her vagina works and how shaving can complicate things or make things uncomfortable. Vaginal secretions, when they get into those nicks and cuts, can cause intense itching and burning and even vaginal acne. Men don’t have the frequency of secretions. Because the skin of the vagina is so thin, there’s no avoiding the cuts if you shave. They’re miniscule. I’m not talking about a gash a guy gets when he nicks himself shaving. Did you skip Health Class in High School?

                      That funky odor he’s talking about often is related to a woman’s Ph Balance. That can get disrupted if you use the wrong cleanser, or stress, or ovulation. It also occurs if you’re having sex regularly, which adds another layer of discomfort depending on the type of birth control/condoms you use. It’s not as simple as wash and shave. At any given time there could be an odor of some kind even if a woman is hyper-vigilante about showering and DEFINITELY if she’s having to shave regularly.

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                    • The D-man Says:

                      Shaving one’s balls is indeed challenge.

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                    • John Says:

                      India
                      Moxie lost this argument. When she has no defense she brings up PH balance and says since I dont know this, I dont get close to a vagina. Maybe its hard for her to reach hers because her size 10 gut is in the way. More evidence she rarely gets close to a gym.

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                    • LostSailor Says:

                      D-man:

                      That’s why God invented electric razors…

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                    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                      My defense was accurate and inclusive. If you’re having sex regularly, shaving regularly is a problem. Waxing is only done every couple of weeks, and stubble grows back eventually. Waxing is also quite expensive. Regular shaving make the hair grow back faster. These are all things men learn once they’ve had consistent exposure to a vagina.

                      If you can’t handle stubble or a little hair, or any odor other than fruit and flowers, then you don’t actually like going down on women. You can never avoid that. Which brings us back to DMN’s original point that men who say things like a woman must be freshly shaved and showered in order for them to go down on them are revealing that they either never do it or don’t actually like it.

                      If you get so enraged that you go to the fattie place over a blog comment, that’s likely why you don’t get laid regularly in the first place.

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                    • Walt Says:

                      FYI – Frequent shaving does NOT make the hair grow faster or thicker. It is a myth.

                      Hair growth is controlled by follicles found just underneath the skin. These follicles are not in any way affected by shaving.

                      Only the outer part of your hair that is already dead is getting cut. The follicles underneath that determine thickness/color/growth rate remain completely unaffected by your shaving or not shaving.

                      ON TOPIC – if you can’t handle the any smell, taste, etc. then you should stick to your blow-up doll.

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                    • Crotch Rocket Says:

                      Regular shaving make the hair grow back faster.
                      I agree with everything else you’ve said in this thread, but I gotta call you out on this. Shaving does not affect hair growth. Period. However, when it grows back in, the thick and prickly parts immediately make an appearance, so many people think shaving makes hair grows faster and/or thicker.

                      OTOH, waxing removes hairs from the root, so when it grows back in, what appears first are the thin and soft ends of new hair. It also damages the follicles, so the new hairs that grow in will be slightly thinner and softer each time.

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                • Rosie Says:

                  I HATE men that shave down there. If you don’t shave for a couple of days it gets all stubbly. Ick! Trim and go!

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                  • Crotch Rocket Says:

                    Now you know how we feel when women get stubbly. If you’re not going to keep it completely bare, then just trim it. A well-maintained bush, while not ideal, is preferable to stubble that will scratch our faces raw when we go down.

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        • LostSailor Says:

          Did someone call my name?

          Hey, everybody’s got their hangups. Some are more clean-nicks than others. Personally, I expect anyone I’m dating to have reasonable standards of hygiene. But I wouldn’t insist on inspections to ensure they are “freshly showered and shaved.” That seems to be straying into OCD territory.

          This whole shaving thing is of fairly recent vintage anyway. Take a look at older porn from the 70s or 80s and at best you’ll find a little trimming. That said, I would never insist on shaving, though an old-growth forest down there can make the work more difficult. It kinda spoils the mood when you feel like you’re flossing at the same time…

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          • Crotch Rocket Says:

            Take a look at older porn from the 70s or 80s and at best you’ll find a little trimming.
            A friend of mine was a Playboy centerfold in the early 1980s, and she says the bush in all her pictures (and, to her knowledge, all the other models’) was airbrushed on. Apparently, Hef thought showing exposed genitalia (or tattoos) wasn’t classy enough for the image he wanted to portray. Things changed when his daughter took over, not as a reflection of what real women (or even just their models) were actually doing.

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      • Rosie Says:

        And for some reason I feel the ones that like it freshly showered, probably smell like a rat’s ass (pun intended) down there. hahahaha

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    • chester Says:

      I remember a girl asking me at the beginning of our relationship.. “Do you like spontaneous sex, or prepared clean sex?”….

      I think the way she described that really wraps it up. Neither preference is superior to the other. They’re just different.

      Are we really arguing that one preference is superior to the other? and trashing a guy because his preference is different?

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Trashing? Not at all. Some of my best friends hate vaginas. Just stop pretending to be something you’re not. And, for god’s sake, stop giving advice to women.

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  14. btrflynaia Says:

    I don’t know if I would break up with someone over it. Sex might get old and scripted which would lead to boredom and less desire for sex with that person…………leading to eventual break up. I think sex is an important part of a relationship. Give and take. I really like going down on my partner. If it’s turning him on it’s turning me on. One of my very best girl friend’s always says; if a man doesn’t like to go down, he doesn’t really love women. I think sex is giving and taking and should be fun. It would eventually be a deal breaker for me. But, I would try to discuss it with my partner first.

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  15. D'Alias Says:

    I like when a man goes down on me, but I greatly prefer penetration above all else. Penis – finger – tongue, in that order for me. It’s not a deal breaker. I don’t really care if he does it or not. Half the time, I don’t even enjoy it that much. I see it as something that happens before sex sometimes. (Although I had one partner that loved going down – he put so much thought and energy into learning what turned me on. I couldn’t get enough of it when HE did it. He was also quite well endowed so it helped to be as lubricated as possible).

    Sometimes I enjoy going down on my partner. Most often, I do it cuz I love him and want to get him off. For me, oral is the most intimate act. I save it for very special people – maybe 3 or 4 in my life (plus a drunken episode or two). I’d sooner risk herpes sores on my cooch than on my face.

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  16. meh Says:

    “Would you continue to date someone – male or female – if they refused to go down on you?”

    No, oral is super-important to me & it would have to happen the first time we are in bed or there won’t be a second.

    I love giving it & receiving it. Even though I always make sure I’m clean, I don’t care if she’s shaved or bushy or it’s 9pm or 9am or after the shower or after the gym or that time of the month.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      I will cut a guy slack if he doesn’t want to during “that time of the month” (though I appreciate a guy who doesn’t mind).

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      • LostSailor Says:

        Eeewwww….

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          I always inform up front and assume it’s not happening, but if they insist…

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          • LostSailor Says:

            It was really more the mental image your comment inserted into my head…

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            • fuzzilla Says:

              I can assure you a grown man saying “Eewwww” at the thought of a vagina doesn’t conjure a very sexy image.

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              • Rosie Says:

                Well, I’m a grown woman with a vagina and the thought of a guy going down on me when I have my period makes me think Ewww. More power to you and anyone else that does it, but it’s not for me.

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              • LostSailor Says:

                No, the thought of a vagina makes this grown man say “yum.” The thought of plying my skills as a cunning linguist during the roll of the Crimson Tide engenders a “eeewwww”.

                Been there once, long ago, when an inconsiderate partner did not care to share some pertinent information with me…

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    • Marie Says:

      Yeah, I like oral sex as much as the next girl, but really? At that time of the month? If a guy went down on me when I was on the rag I’d be pretty damn grossed out. Especially if he tried to kiss me after.

      Personally, if my significant other refused to do it, it would probably lead to a discussion, but it’s not necessarily a deal breaker. It could possibly be a problem because, to me, oral is much more intimate than penetration – which is desirable from someone significant in my life. Somebody I first start dating or a FWB? To me, it’s not a huge deal.

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      • meh Says:

        Obviously we discuss this stuff beforehand because if she can’t relax she isn’t going to enjoy it. So sometimes I have to wash my face & use mouthwash afterwards. No big deal.

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  17. Asha Says:

    I agree with leslie, when I received oral from a guy it was only to turn me on and not because he enjoyed it. What I don’t likes is when a guy gives a woman oral and the woman is clear about not being into it, then why does he expect her to give him oral
    After he’s done it quite a few times. Is he hoping she’ll change her mind about this. I am one who is not fond about receiving oral but I am very mixed about giving a guy oral. Why? Sometimes I’m just not comfortable yet and The choking shit has turned me off a bit especially when the guy likes to cram your head into his dick. When this happens I sometimes throw up or i immediately think I’m in a porn video and doing something rather slutty. So how could I love going down on your cock after that. The weird thing is a part of me enjoys giving the guy oral but the other part is i dont want to deal with the choking and the thought of my  behavior being sluty. I honestly would rather do it with a guy who makes me feel sexually comfortable about this but never with someone I’ve only dated for a few months. For me oral is more like a relationship, I need to be a bit more secure and comfortable; or my mate just have to know how to bring my sexual fantasies alive if he wants more out of this. I think guys need to take a chill pill on this. I believe if he doesn’t, at least with the slightest  indication show how much he has to have this and be considerate her needs by making her feel ok ;and/or communicates with her about her sexually fantasies it would happen rather soon. I know it will work for me

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    • mindstar Says:

      “What I don’t likes is when a guy gives a woman oral and the woman is clear about not being into it, then why does he expect her to give him oral”. Because while evidently there are women who do not enjoy receiving oral (though thank the gods I’ve yet to meet one) there is not a man alive who does not enjoy receiving oral.

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    • Rosie Says:

      Choking? What kind of brutes have you been dating? lay him down on the bed and if you have to, tie his hands to the bed. then you’re in total control. But any man that grabs my head and shoves his dick down my throat better have money for the reconstructive surgery.

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        Well, some women like that (though yes, this is a good “discuss beforehand, don’t assume” One To Grow On).

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        • Rosie Says:

          Def. discuss beforehand topic, But she claims that she’s always choking and even throwing up.

          I think she just hates her behavior being thought as “slutty”. Her words, not mine. So maybe her throat closes up in fear of being thought slutty. How old are you, dear?

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          • fuzzilla Says:

            Oh, yeah, that comment. She didn’t say she “always” choked. I got the feeling it happened once or twice and traumatized her and made her feel paranoid and insecure. There must be something more going on, there (anxiety issues, a bad “man picker,” etc.).

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      when I received oral from a guy it was only to turn me on and not because he enjoyed it. What I don’t likes is when a guy gives a woman oral and the woman is clear about not being into it, then why does he expect her to give him oral
      This objection doesn’t make sense to me. The enjoyment I get from going down is in giving my partner pleasure; I’m not doing it for its own sake. I’ve always assumed partners went down on me for the same reason.

      I am one who is not fond about receiving oral
      I’ve never understood that, aside from many women having been brainwashed into thinking that sex is “dirty”, that women aren’t supposed to enjoy it but have to tolerate it to get/keep a man, etc. Such hangups don’t bode well for a couple’s sex life in general.

      I am very mixed about giving a guy oral. Why? Sometimes I’m just not comfortable yet and The choking shit has turned me off a bit especially when the guy likes to cram your head into his dick.
      Sounds like you’ve had some seriously bad experiences there; that’s not how it’s supposed to work. Granted, it can be difficult for a guy to resist the urge to thrust, but a trick I noticed one ex using was to wrap her hand around the shaft and twist/jack gently in sync with her bobbing; her hand prevented me from accidentally going in far enough to choke her. I’m sure the ladies here can offer other practical advice as well if you’re having problems in that area.

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  18. LostSailor Says:

    I don’t know that I would refuse to date someone who refused to do oral, but it would put a limit on the sexy-time fun. I don’t know that I would I would date them long, however.

    I’ve been with women who didn’t particularly enjoy receiving but only one who flatly refused to give or receive (she made up for it in other ways). But I’ve also been with women who were quite enthusiastic about receiving but would return the favor only reluctantly. And that is indeed a deal breaker for me. Reciprocity boys and girls. You need to give as good as you get, so to speak…

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  19. Jeff Says:

    I would dump you in a heart beat if you were not into oral sex & that saw better cut both ways!

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    • Jeff Says:

      BTW, I have ended more than one relationship because of it. One very attractive woman told me she didn’t give blow jobs because she doesn’t have to. She’s been on & off Match several times over thelast 5 years. As I told her, “Honey your looks & big boobs only take you so far with this guy!”

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      • CK Says:

        Quoting Moxie here. Imagine that the gender of all nouns is switched.

        “Women like to make outlandish statements like that because it makes them sound all sassy and no-nonsense and in charge. What they won’t reveal is that they asked their guy to do it and he refused. That would reveal more about their relationship than they’d prefer. Then her judgment and self-esteem is put into question, taking away any sense of control she’d have if she just said she’d leave a guy for not going down on her.

        And yes, it’s a load of bullshit when a woman makes a broad declaration like she’d dump a guy if he didn’t go down on her. Especially when it’s done while amongst a gaggle of other women saying similar stupid shit. It’s said to convey a phony sense of empowerment and sexual confidence. If the other physical and emotional aspects of a relationship are satisfying, it’s short-sighted to say, without any doubt, you’d dump a guy for something like lack of oral sex. It’s said for shock value and nothing more.”

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  20. Eliza Says:

    I really dont get it, why many women don’t like giving oral…but to each their own. The reason I say this–is because once you meet someone you are that attracted to, and you both are great in between the sheets–and there is nothing lacking, I would think oral is a big part of intimacy. perhaps not every time. Some women are visual too–if that makes any sense. If the man you are with is well-endowed, that makes giving oral much much better. And as someone notated before on here…different strokes for different folks…it all comes down to communication and mutual respect. If a man is forceful–and insists on choking a woman…he needs to know this is not what she is into. Some men prefer and enjoy being physically abusive…and I guess in their past women have enjoyed it too? So–they feel across the board, all women find it appealing. It’s important to be able to be open and very direct as to what your preferences are.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      > It’s important to be able to be open and very direct as to what your preferences are.I’m talking about these guys who barely even LOOK at your pussy, like you could bang this dude for a year and he would never once even get below your ribcage.<).

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        OK, my comment got chopped up all weird and didn’t make sense. Basically I was agreeing with Eliza about being open and direct and stating your preferences; also wondering if the gal from the article really put up with mediocre/unsatisfying sex for a *year* without saying anything.

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      • Eliza Says:

        To me that’s quite odd…and I would wonder why or what hang ups the guy has. I actually discussed this very topic with someone I am close to – and he said: “why the hangups”? That short and simple. He feels a woman doesn’t have to be “perfectly shaven”, or “prepped” – if he is genuinely into her – in every which way. He said, if he is into her–he is going down. That simple! lol
        And yes, he said – that any man in their right mind, would expect that there be some stubble, some hair, or a particular scent…it’s the human body we are talking about. He’s a very black and white type of guy. He just said – if what he does, get his woman off, then that’s good enough for him to motivate him – because he gets off on his partner enjoying and letting loose. So there. I got a guy’s pperspective on this. I personally just like to be showered, and enjoy smelling/looking a certain way…just for me.

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        • Rosie Says:

          I’m with you Eliza, except for your use of lotions/creams. It’s a vagina- you don’t need to dress it up.

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          • Eliza Says:

            Rosie…OK to clarify what I have posted about “lotions/potions”! LOL. Not suggesting or saying that I apply that ot the vagina…actually not healthy. But to my legs, the surrounding areas…externally of course. Nice body spray. After a quick 5 min shower in general…it’s nice to feel fresh, whether you and your partner are going to get intimate or not. And if two people are that much into each other, and they want to be spontaneous they will…and not be so concerned with natural body scent.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      Some men prefer and enjoy being physically abusive…and I guess in their past women have enjoyed it too?
      I wouldn’t describe this as “abusive” without details that established an intent to cause harm. Also, many women enjoy being sexually dominated to some degree, even if they prefer to be equal (or “more equal”) outside the bedroom. I’m constantly amazed at the number of “liberated” women who want their hair pulled, get spanked, be called names, etc. When a guy gets used to that, it’s easy to make the mistake of doing it with someone new who hasn’t specifically asked for it, especially if said new partner is not very good at communicating what she does want. We can’t read your minds, ladies.

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  21. Speedy Says:

    There is a kind of autism to these articles, am I alone in noticing this?
    I find it hard to put better but I think these articles are increasingly irrelevant. They are about what the person thinks in general, they are written to be consumed that way (ie the author is portraying herself in a certain way mostly to other women). It has nothing to do with relationshps and the cardboard cut-out “guy” mentioned in passing,

    Its never generic with a real life partner, you talk about stuff and the answer is it always depends.
    Depends how big the issue is and what kind of compromise or arrangements you work out or fall into. Also, what else is going on more generally and what that is about.

    Would I mind? It depends. It just depends.

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  22. Treifalicious Says:

    I have already been through this a couple of times. The answer is no. If a guy displays a pattern of not wanting to go down on me I see this as a sign of basic selfishness that will come out eventually in other aspects of the relationship. That kind of selfishness has a way of cooling my feelings for a guy.

    Not that every man who goes down is so considerate, of course. Still, something like 70% of women can pretty much only reach orgasm from direct clitiral stimulation. Oral is the best way to do this without the help of vibrators. I go down on men as a matter of course even though I don’t love it. I expect the sme courtesy in return.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      I see this as a sign of basic selfishness that will come out eventually in other aspects of the relationship.
      I’d be surprised if an unwillingness to go downtown was really the first sign of such “basic selfishness”.

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  23. D. Says:

    I read the XOJane piece.

    I really need to stop doing that shit. The best I can tell is that sites like that exist as echo-chambers for the self-absorbed and immature.

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  24. BL Says:

    I have the opposite issue – I love going down, but g/f isn’t into it (not just me, she’s never liked it) – so I only get to do it occasionally. Of course, she’s not too keen about helping me out that way either. It’s a frustration, but not a deal killer.

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  25. marie Says:

    First I would like t say Great Topic! I know the only way for me to orgasm is with clit stimulation, honestly that mixed with the fingers and maybe some toys gets me there faster. It does take about 15-20 minutes sometimes and I have yet to find a man who is patient enough (well there was the one guy :) many years ago) I can tell you that if a woman had an orgasm every time they had sex they would want it all the time too :) I mean men have at least one very time right, only seems right we really enjoy it too. I decided that I need this! I will be patient with my man (when I find him) and will be happy to tell him what I like. It seems this has become an important thing to me…although I can do it myself it is just not the same right :) lol… I mean come on I don’t mind begging for it a little as long as I know he won’t stop until he gets me there. Men should know that once a woman orgasms (most I think), the whole sexual experience is intensified! It is a win win I say.

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    • tomgtv Says:

      I’ve always considered it basic sex 101, always get the girl off first and then go to the next level!
      BTW what state are you in? Maybe I could help……….. :)

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    • chica Says:

      I concur. Eat me out right and I am your wild woman.

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  26. chica Says:

    Sorry but if a guy doesn’t give head that’s a deal breaker to me. And I do reciprocate. Just a major factor to me. And FWIW I am a gorgeous size 10 and my downtown district is natural clean and regularly trimmed. No shaving needed IMHO. So far no complaints.

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  27. Sierra Says:

    I personally love giving head! It helps if its nice and clean, Its nice if its a little bit trimmed, just so I can go all the way down. its also nice if the guy has a beautiful cock, (but fine if its just normal! Sorry, just being honest.) Seeing it get all super hard and ready turns me on. That said, the main reason I love it is the reaction I get and the feeling of driving my man wild!! Its a huge turn on for me to get him so hot, and often it adds a level of intensity that gets things going for both of us.

    Interestingly, I’m not as into being gone down on. Yes, it feels great, and I think that a guy should at least be willing every now and then if they want the same, but there are other things I like even better. Id rather a man use his hands down south and save that sweet mouth for kissing my breasts, my mouth and anywhere else he can think of.

    I totally understand how women or men could have had bad experiences with giving head or not want to though. Our culture is pretty fucked up. For example, what’s with the expression, “suck my dick” as in “fuck you”? Way to make something intimate and amazing feel mean and degrading. Talk about counterproductive! Don’t guys want us to like it? Maybe for this reason I don’t like to be told to go down on a guy and I hate it if he just pushes my head down, but that’s never been an issue since I generally will initiate it on my own if a guys get me turned on, kissing me, touching my breasts and body and generally enjoying me. Its irresistible!

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  28. Scott Says:

    I’m a dork and haven’t gotten that far with a woman, but I would definitely want to go down on my partner…

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  29. Marysol Says:

    My boyfriend loved to go down on me but has learned that I enjoy other things more so he doesn’t do as often. He usually asks if I want it at the time and to be honest I dont like him to go down on me unless I feel super clean, just showered, not sweat, etc. Now, him on the other hand wants me to go down on him all the time. He wants to start off with that and then move on with regular sex. I like doing it some times and when I don’t is only because he is a little “musty” down there, otherwise I dont mind it.

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