I woke up to an email from a friend on Facebook.
“I just got an email from a woman on Match who asked if the lack of a stated income on my profile meant I was unemployed. Should I include my income?”
Let’s think about this from a search perspective. When someone is choosing criteria that they prefer in a mate, are many people selecting a specific income?I would guess that there’s a decent amount of people who do. Hence, it might be a good idea to include a salary just because you want to come up in as many search types as possible so that you can drive traffic to your ad. The downside, of course, is attracting people who only wish to date people who fall within a certain income bracket. My guess is that if you work in a field that is known for it’s high salary then you’re used to being targeted by such people and can sniff them out pretty quickly. I’d suggest planning a low key date at a modestly priced bar. If your date tries to upgrade then you know that they’re more drawn to you for your wallet than your personality.
As I’ve said before, people who make high salaries aren’t opposed to spending money. They know that that’s all part of the Dating Game. They don’t mind sharing the wealth as long as their date appears to appreciate it. They don’t have to have someone match their spending habits on dates to do that. A simple offer to pay for the cab or buy a round of drinks will suffice. It’s not about the amount, it’s about the gesture of appreciation.
Now, what if you want to select “Prefer not to say?” Personally, I think that’s the best way to go. I don’t like the idea of people feeling obligated to reveal sensitive information like salary range to strangers. This would never come up in regular conversation if you met someone at a bar or party.Either choose that option or undercut your salary a bit. I always suggest to clients that they don’t go into great detail about what they do for a living. Don’t give it all away upfront. If you work in the corporate world select Executive/Management as a career field whenever you can.
In my example profile that I use when doing profile reviews, I identify as financially self-sufficient as opposed to financially independent. I place more importance on whether or not someone can take care and support themselves than how much they make. I also prefer to date someone who lives a similar lifestyle to mine, meaning they live on their own and, while maybe don’t make enough to travel to Europe on a regular basis, can still afford to go out and enjoy certain activities and is responsible enough to maintain a savings.
The phrase “financially independent” says, to me, “I don’t need you. I got this.” That’s not a message you want to send to potential partners. You want people to think you need them to some degree. “Financially self-sufficient” says, to me, “I’m responsible.” That’s what sufficiency is about – being able to take care of yourself. I often advise women not to make mention of finances or careers in their profiles. For one, they make themselves targets to the OKCupid/Match.com Hobos looking for a place to rest their weary heads. Yes, that’s a thing. The other reason is that men just don’t care what a woman makes or what she does for a living as much as women care about the same things. Men want women to use their more “feminine” qualities to attract men. Most men focus on personality traits and characteristics than on financial or professional ones.
On a somewhat related topic, can we all talk key words for a second? A great way to draw the right people to your profile is to include specific key words. If you’re super health conscious, then make sure to use words like healthy, diet and exercise. Go even more specific and use words like organic and yoga. If you like being outdoors, include words like nature, hikes, environment, sunset, mountains, etc. Looking for a nerd? Think of the various descriptors and hobbies you think someone like that might identify with and put them in your profile. I’ve found the, more and more, people are honing their searches by using the key word search option.
So now I’ll turn it over to you:
Do you complete the income question on your profile? Why or why not? Have you encountered people who have seemed judgmental based on your admitted salary? Have you been targeted by people who appear to primarily seek people in your income bracket? If so, how did you know and how did you handle it?
“Now, what if you want to select “Prefer not to say?” Personally, I think that’s the best way to go. I don’t like the idea of people feeling obligated to reveal sensitive information like salary range to strangers. This would never come up in regular conversation if you met someone at a bar or party”
Completely agree. I personally feel that anyone that posts their income on a dating site or makes a big deal of it in real life is compensating for insecurities about themselves.
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I’m just appalled that woman
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Do you complete the income question on your profile? Why or why not? Yes, honesty is the best policy. They usually have brackets anyways. Even if I have to say exact number, i wouldn’t mind. My belief the more information we shared upfront and the less trickery we use, the better the results will be.
Have you encountered people who have seemed judgmental based on your admitted salary? Never, but i feel I speak for the fortunate few. I hate people who look down at other people so I never do it myself.
Have you been targeted by people who appear to primarily seek people in your income bracket? If so, how did you know and how did you handle it? I could smell those a mile away. Trust me, we didn’t get this income because we are stupid. I usually went on one date or two dates if you are particularly good at hiding, give you hug and wish you well.
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I don’t answer the income question because it’s nobody’s business. I answer the job question and mention that I own my own home, so it’s probably clear that I’m not a pauper, but I’m not telling strangers how much money I make.
And besides, a woman who’s busy actively screening based on income isn’t my kind of woman anyway.
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Did the woman have her income bracket filled out? If not, then that’s bull. If so and she’s making a rather high salary, considering a date’s bracket could have some validity (this applies to men too). Let’s face it, money is one of the most common reasons long term couples fight; especially when one is making disparately more than the other, or has significantly different spending habits. The lifestyle difference between someone making $50K and someone making $200K is quite substantial. If you’re looking to causally date, it’s no problem. But in looking for a LTR, it could have a significant impact. What happens when the couple wants to live together? The higher income has a $3K/month rent, the lower has a $1K/month. Does the one making more give up their awesome digs and move into a smaller apartment in a less desirable area so the one making less can afford to pay half? Or do they pay the vast majority of the rent and stay somewhere they are accustomed to, but have the other pay significantly less? This is assuming the other would be OK with paying less. Finding someone in a similar bracket as you could be useful. Obviously it isn’t a deal breaker or maker, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be a factor.
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it is never a problem when the man makes $200K and the woman makes $50K. The problem occurs when the reverse happens. Some women get over it but some can’t.
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That’s just not true. A friend moved in with her now fiancee a long time ago, but didn’t want to live in his $4K/month penthouse apartment in Soho, because she couldn’t meaningfully contribute. So, he moved into a much smaller apartment in a non-elevator building to make it work. It clearly worked out, but it was almost a deal breaker. I’m in the exact opposite position where gave up my apartment because my boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with me paying significantly more, despite that I wanted to. It can go either way.
Also, let’s go further down the road, if the woman is making $200K and the man $50K, in LTR land, if they have kids, it’s likely the man will be the one staying home while the woman works. That is my dream scenerio, but I have yet to date a man who feels the same.
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I check “entertainment” as my career field and use “rather not say” for income. Until I listed my professional title in my profile I would occasionally get emails from men asking if “entertainment” was a code word for “stripper.” I’m in radio and even with my professional title listed it still confuses people, they now think I conduct high school bands.
Similar to what D. says above I mention that I’m a home owner to express financial responsibility since I don’t list my salary. I like Moxie’s phrase of “financially self-suficient,” it’s more sucinct and conveys the same thing.
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I never included my salary information. First, it’s tacky. And second, it’s nobody’s business. I can’t imagine a scenario in which I’d be interested in someone who seeks a mate based on their income. Did I encounter such women during my online dating adventures? Absolutely. I had one woman tell me while we were laying in best after making love the first time that she could never date someone who earned less than $100k after a month of dating. So I told her I earned less than that (which was a lie) to see what she’d so at that point in the relationship. And sure enough she dumped me a week later with no explanation. None was needed. I knew the reason why. At least she had the decency to fuck me first. I don’t miss her.
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My profile doesn’t contain income information but I am curious about this. I’m not concerned that women will think I’m unemployed and contact me as much as I’m concerned that women are screening me out automatically on the basis of “no income provided” and either never see my profile at all or skip past it. The way, for example, I might set my search preferences to only show me women below a certain height. Do women do that for income? I’m really not worried about gold diggers. If women want to date me for my job or lifestyle, it’s as good a reason as any as far as I’m concerned. I want my profile seen by as many eyeballs as possible. I’ll screen the assholes later.
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“If women want to date me for my job or lifestyle, it’s as good a reason as any as far as I’m concerned.”
Bingo. This crops up over and over again you know. Its not that women will never understand this, its that they don’t understand why we have no trouble admitting it. Just one of those things.
Its been on my mind I little because following a recent 200th anniversary I gave Pride & Prejudice a re-read. One of the central jokes is really played on the reader and its still delivering today. If you haven’t read it, Lizzie is unimpressed with Mr Fitzwilliam Darcy (whose name is a contemporary joke that renders him called something close, as a Whig, to ‘Mr Rich McMoneybags’). Then she happens to visit Pemberley, his vast sprawling estate, while he is handily out of town. Lizzie is deeply impressed by this almost on a spiritual level and imagines what it would be like to mistress of a vast estate. While there she also discovers he is also in fact a deeply generous nice guy loved even by servants and that the titular pride and prejudice is all hers. Wedding bells follow rather rapidly.
The joke is really that the reader is never really told which is the most important event, something contemporary fans have a bit of trouble seeing the amusing side of because rather like Lizzie themselves they know which they’d rather was the truth and that should be enough. Austen herself however clearly sets this up as an ambiguity because its not like every other character in the book isn’t wholly self serving in what they claim is the truth so it would be odd if Lizzie was an exception.
Which is a rather long-winded way of saying I think very few women are mercenary and I think gold-diggers are far more talked about than ever encountered. I think they want to find the right person for them and on the whole don’t really care about income. However, I also think when it comes down to establishing whether Lizzie’s head was first turned by Pemberley (Chatsworth in real life probably) or by intimations of Mr Darcy’s heroic personal character, they don’t want to say and we really don’t want to know either. Why would we? And this is really Austen’s final raspberry to the audience. She knows that you know that as well whether you want to admit it or not.
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Agreed. Knowing this, do you include your income range in your profile?
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I did for a bit, yes. I don’t now.
For me personally its actually about geography. I live in the kind of place where you can guess what I do for a living and therefore you can guess roughly what I get paid etc. There isn’t much mystery going on. Its a bit different in big cities.
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I don’t complete the income info in an online profile, for most of the reasons already given: it’s tacky and nobody’s business. If there is a “prefer not to say” option, I use that as it can’t help but feed the imagination of some women.
That said, it’s never been an issue for me. It’s never come up. If it did, she’d be hitting the bricks pretty quickly, especially in the early stages of dating. That’s a discussion for later if things get more serious.
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I can’t believe this is even a question. You can tell if someone supports themselves or not and (about) how much from a few back-and-forth messages. If you’re between the ages of 20 and 40, live on your own, go out and do things from time to time, you probably make enough to support yourself.
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I put my income down, but then I’m a lot older than most on this forum. Of course, what I have found that most people don’t even read much of your profile, before contacting you. Oh… talk about being old
I have found that most ladies that have dated in the 1960s and 1970s, are pretty much expecting the guy to pay for everything… all the time…..harking back to the good old days of dating. Of course quite a few of those ladies have lots of money from divorce settlements or life insurance policies on their deceased husbands, that they do not want to part with. Ah… to be young once again 
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I am a girl and I don’t put down my income. And I am actually less likely to contact a guy if he puts down his income, no matter what he puts. We all want different things in life, and if you want a date who cares about your money, hey more power to you. But if it a casual date or a possible LTR, either way, I wouldn’t be interested in hanging with someone for who that mattered.
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A woman who cares about a man’s income is no more shallow than a man who only wants to date “whte and slender” women in my book. The important thing is bring honest with your self about what matters to you – and not feeling pressures into being “politically correct” or acting holier than thou.
If a woman aspires to be a stay-at-home mom, or wants a large family, it matters financially well off the man is. If the guy barely makes it for his bachelor life style, supporting a wife and four kids may be out of the question. Similarly, if a man wants lots of kids, he has every right to date younger women or not that a risk with a woman who is 35. The key is being honest with your self and what it takes to make you happy.
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I can appreciate that this is a tough one.
I’m sure that there are women who do not want to feel that men are interested in them solely for their looks, but as part of a larger package. Similarly, men are leery of women who are interested in them primarily for their money.
Sure both are elements that can’t be ignored. Nor should they be. But where it becomes a matter of primary focus then things get sticky.
I can appreciate that this is disclosure issue. So for some the non of your business notion has lot’s of appeal. On the other side of the spectrum you have people who don’t have much of a problem making that information known. Others might give rough indication of income.
Yet as was pointed out, being financially self sufficient is an important consideration. RE: just read about another celebrity who was making a decent amount of money but is having houses in the process of foreclosure. Making a lot, but spending a whole lot more. So it may not be what you make but to some degree how you manage what you make.
Yet, how someone reacts to the level of disclose might be a pretty good idea of compatibility and can help rule in or rule out those who might not be compatible with you.
Interesting topic
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I don’t put my income range in my profile, but as a woman, I don’t really think it’s expected for me to do so.
I do not skip over a profile where no income is listed. I figure that it is something that he doesn’t want to broadcast.
The only time I’ll skip over a profile based on income is when it’s under $50,000, because then he won’t be able to afford the type of travel I want to do & the lifestyle I am accustomed to.
I have no treating a guy once and a while, but I don’t want to be supporting him. I’ve been in a 3 year relationship with a man who made significantly more than I did, and another 3 year relationship with a man who made less than I did, but who was self sufficient. Neither relationship ended because of money issues.
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interesting comments. i don’t make that much so i listed my income. if a woman is looking for a certain salary-range then i think it’s better that she know right away instead of wasting each other’s time. i also know that some women skip profiles with the “rather not say” option the same way i skipped profiles without pictures. and i would rather a woman consider on her own whether it really is a priority than try to convince them that “money isn’t everything.” why filter them out when they can filter themselves out.
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WHen I was doing online dating I tried it both ways. I found that I got about half the responses when I didn’t show my income range.compared to when I did.
It certainly felt like income was a major attractor for most all the women I met online. A few even said so. I have not found a good way of weeding them out that does not pretty much weed out everyone. Paying very earlier on (2nd or 3rd date) is a strong indicator that income is not a big deal to them.
One problem I have noticed is that a many people based on my job think I make a lot more money than I do — like 50k more.. My salary is pretty much normal for my job & local – but people outside the industry only know of the “RockStars” – Kind of like only know about Eli Manning and assuming he whole team has the same salary – even the guys who never leave the bench.
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