Would You Use Someone For A Free Meal/Sex?

XOJane published yet another article that showcases the distorted rationalizations that many people lean on when acting like assholes. Read it, then let’s discuss both the article and the following quote:

All women engage in this.  And, every guy you know is doing the same thing – dangling the possibility of commitment to women in order to get sex.  People are selfish.  Sure, it’s socially inappropriate to admit to doing it (and dumb if you’re announcing to thousands of readers non-anonymously on the Internet) but doesn’t mean everyone is not doing it. Men are far more guilty of this than women, I think.  They will have sex with a woman with no intention of it leading to anything knowing the woman wants more.  Women dangle the possibility of sex to get other things.  I don’t think it’s always about free meals.  In my experience that is rare.  But it’s about getting something.  So everyone is guilty. – DMN

 

I let you guys discuss the finer points of DMN’s feedback. I agree that both parties are using the promise of something they know the other covets to get what they want. So there really isn’t much difference in what this woman did versus what many men do in an attempt to get laid.

Of course the minute this story went live it became Reddit/MRA fodder. She’s a dinner whore, she’s a prostitute, blah blah blah. The men complaining reveal nothing other than they were suckers once, too. The author of the essay is rationalizing her decision to use men for free meals by deflecting and pointing the finger at men. That’s to be expected. As I said in one of my comments in that article’s thread, I’m tired of men and women trying to avoid responsibility by  re-directing attention to similar behavior of the opposite sex. Stop doing that. 99% of the time, both genders are wrong so you’re not really helping your argument. It becomes a circular conversation where one side attempts to bait the other into responding. Nothing gets accomplished and the cycle of resentment is perpetuated.

Not only did she demonstrate poor judgment for using men for free meals, but she proved she still makes questionable choices by writing about it non-anonymously on the internet.  The only real difference between her and the men she is comparing herself to is that the majority of those guys would never publicly admit to behaving so heinously. Why? Because a) it would interfere with their game and b) they know it’s wrong. That doesn’t stop them from doing this, of course. They keep it to themselves so that they – along with their male peers – can continue the ruse should they choose to use it. They are not only looking out for themselves but for their bros. I think the opposite is true for women who share these revelations in a public forum. They’ll say they’re doing it warn other females or balance out various injustices, but are they? Are they really?

EDITED TO ADD: I honestly think women publicly share stories that make them sound as though they are far more successful/no-nonsense/sexually desirable than other women. For example: the woman who wrote the XO Jane piece implies she got steak and lobster dinners from men she met off OK Cupid and Craigslist. Really? REALLY?? Because all the guys who can afford to blow a couple hundred on a first date dinner all cruise….Craigslist? Please. That was written strictly to generate jealousy from the female readership and imply that men found her so attractive that they freely and gladly opened up their wallets for her.

While many females like to speculate that men behave poorly,  the evidence that women actually do appears to be piling up on the internet. Not only do articles like this make the subject look bad, they make all women look bad. It seems like every day there’s another piece of evidence  cropping up that incriminates us in the form of personal memoir writing. The question is: why? Aren’t we better than this?

Nobody in this digital age, where Googling first dates is expected, could possibly think publishing this story was a good idea. The XO Jane piece was framed as though it was an act of contrition, but it wasn’t.  I think it was shared because the author was proud of what she did. Only someone pleased with themselves would write a story like this under their own name and post photos. The decision to go public with this is what will haunt her. Having to defend and explain why she wrote this will be her penance.

 


Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
Share
, , , , , , ,

34 Responses to “Would You Use Someone For A Free Meal/Sex?”

  1. sway Says:

    “So there really isn’t much difference in what this woman did versus what many men do in an attempt to get laid.”

    “I’m tired of men and women trying to avoid responsibility by re-directing attention to similar behavior of the opposite sex. Stop doing that.”

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      The second statement refers to people who deflect responsibility for bad behavior by citing similar behavior in the opposite sex.

      The first statement is not a deflection. It’s an observation.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 10

  2. Kurt Says:

    Many women absolutely do take advantage of men and go out with men just to get free entertainment or a free meal. The men who get taken advantage of are those who are inexperienced with women or dating. This is precisely why men have learned not to take a woman to dinner until the woman has proven that really likes the man and is worthy of the expense.

    I have an older female friend who is in her 50s and she was essentially telling me that men will take a woman out on a nice dinner date if they like her, and that if the man doesn’t he seems cheap. She also says that she thinks that it is perfectly acceptable for the woman to not even kiss the man and that there is nothing wrong with a man going out with several different men at a time even if all are paying for dinner-type dates so that the woman can take her time to decide which man she wants. I told her that her strategy benefits women but takes advantage of men and that modern women tend to think that a man is chump if he spends too much money right away, such as on dinner, and that will turn off most women.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 4

    • sway Says:

      How does she feel about a guy dating several women at once?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

      • Kurt Says:

        I don’t know about. I suspect that if it was a guy she likes, she probably would not like it if he was dating several women at once. If she doesn’t like the guy, however, I don’t think she would care because she won’t hook up with him anyway.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  3. Andy Says:

    First off, as a guy, I have no problem with what she’s doing/did. She had a problem (getting good meals) and she found a creative way to solve it. If she strung some schmuck out for 5 or 6 meals, then, maybe, she’s crossing the line. But who knows, it could be that schmucks greatest dating experience.

    Secondly, if you are a guy in the dating world, you are going to go out with girls who have no interest in you other than dinner. If she’s fun, attractive and excites you about future possibilities, that’s what you’re looking for. If all she wants with you is steak tartar, and you keep giving it to her, that’s your fault, not hers. Isn’t there a Brother’s Grimm fairy tale, that you’ve got to kiss a lot of frogs, before you find your prince (or princess)?

    Being taken advantage of because you’re naive, doesn’t make you a victim; learning from it makes you an adult. Do PUAs meet a girl, fall in love and change their ways? Absolutely. Do dinner whores meet a guy, fall in love and change their ways? Yes. They. Do.

    So I have no problem with what she did. If someone wants to live in a politically correct, fantasy land, fine. That world seems mighty dull to me. To me, the only people I have a problem with, are the ones who sit at home, take no risks and endlessly “Tut tut” others, for living life as it really is.

    That’s why I love your blog, it’s not written about how the world ought to be, it’s written about how the world is. Keep up the good work.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 17

  4. Nadia Says:

    Another great post, Moxie (new reader here). I regularly browse xojane and I was cringing so hard when I read that post for the same reasons you mention.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

  5. Mimi Says:

    She was also featured in yesterday’s column in daily mail with her pictures on it ( Looks like taken from her publicly okcupid profile). Not all will agree to her n some will judge her solely on her writing about being a dinner whore n proud of it n putting her real identity n pictures out there?? Like moxie said it will haunt her, be it personal or professional. And her girlfriends proud of her actions? Pretty sure not all telling the truth in her face.. And what’s her motivation putting the men’s okcupid username publicly??

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  6. fuzzilla Says:

    To me it seemed framed as a “plucky gal making it in the Big City on a shoestring” story and not so much that she hated men. Yeah, it is shitty to string people along and pretend you’re interested to score free shit, but I felt kinda “meh” about it, not shocked and appalled.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6

  7. D. Says:

    There was a period of time, particularly when I first started doing internet dating, that this wouldn’t have bothered me in the slightest. That, however, was because I was looking for basically just a nice night out. No intentions of it going anywhere (but open to it if it did), no goal other than to have a fun evening. When that was the goal, I’d go out with women even if there was something about them that made me think “Hmm…maybe not…” That was partially because I wasn’t 100% sure if that “maybe not” quality was really an issue. This being during my early post-academic years, I was still learning about the things I liked and didn’t like in a partner. So, in that sense, being willing to cast a wider net and go out with whomever, even when you suspect things may not develop further, doesn’t bother me as much, if she’s also figuring out her own boundaries.

    I think the real issue with the author is the rather mercenary attitude she takes towards dating. It’s one thing to be less discriminating, particularly when you’re still not entirely sure where you draw your lines of discrimination. It’s quite another to flat-out use people and remain unapologetic or defensive about it, like “What?! I was broke and needed to eat. Sue me.” No, you were just an asshole. Own up to it.

    If this story were re-told from a male perspective (e.g., “It Happened to Me: I Told Women Bullshit So I Could Get Laid”), I expect there’d be just as much hue and cry about what a scumbag the guy was for bragging about it, and deservedly so. It’s the cavalier attitude and self-absorption of the piece that’s so galling. The woman who wrote this piece doesn’t, apparently, look at guys as anything more than meal tickets. That’s every bit as bad as a guy looking at women as little more than sex objects. That’s a shitty thing to do, whether you’re a guy or a girl. We can debate which is “worse”, but both are cases where you’re objectifying someone else rather than looking at them as a human being and being even remotely considerate about their feelings.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 0

    • Nadia Says:

      I agree with the points that D. has made. Her intentions were so… cold and calculated. It’s one thing to go out with guys who may not be your type in order to explore what you like or don’t like in people or because you don’t want to stay at home. Socializing and practicing your people skills in the process are fine. What she did was outright use people. It was terrible that her co-worker called her a prostitute, which she’s not, but a user with shady morals? Yeah, definitely.

      Now that her “victims'” usernames are up for all to see, it is possible they will find out what she did and feel hurt and used. Already one person called her out in the comments and alleged he walked out on their date 15 minutes in.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

      • fuzzilla Says:

        You’re right, sharing their usernames was pretty shitty.

        I dunno, the whole thing just seemed more attention whore-y than someone who enjoyed hurting people. Which, yes, is also a stupid waste of time, but why I’m just kinda rolling my eyes and dismissing the whole thing rather than thinking her evil. I mean, are people really shocked that some people are shitbags and use others for sex/free meals or just appalled that she’s admitting to it for attention?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

        • HammersAndNails Says:

          That’s what really put it over the top for me. She even edited the images to remove her own username, and specifically left the guys visible to shame/embarrass them. She’s already been a selfish, inconsiderate asshole. Why compound that by trying to publicly humiliate the guys further. That goes beyond selfish.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

        • Nadia Says:

          You bring up interesting points. I think what irked me more was the shamelessness rather than the what she actually did. Sure, the “crime” (since she labels the men “victims”) is small in the grand scheme of things, but this could have been a thoughtful story about some lesson she learned rather than a bragging story. Even us talking about it here is giving this more attention than it deserves.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      • HammersAndNails Says:

        I have more respect for a prostitute than a con artist and a thief. While I realize her scam is pretty low grade, it’s quite insulting to the honest working ladies out there to compare them to this grifter.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

    • Sarah Says:

      Well, yeah. Using someone is using someone, and it’s a shitty thing to do. On the other hand, women do need food to live; men can live without sex. So these two rationalization aren’t really analogous. They’re just both shitty.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7

      • D. Says:

        The rationalizations are beside the point, though. They’re just rationalizations for shitty behavior, like you say. So, whether they’re analogous or not, they’re still just meant to excuse someone for behaving like a total asshole…and neither of them work particularly well. She can buy a 24-pack of ramen noodles for under $20. He can go jerk off. Self-help, either way, so I guess they have that in common.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    • PhillyGal Says:

      I totally agree here. Nobody made her move to one of the most expensive cities in the country without a job. I lived in NYC in college and after graduation, I realized I couldn’t afford to live there anymore. So I moved to a more affordable city where I could pay for my own damned meals. Go Philly!

      She was cold, calculating and selfish. Then she had the nerve to brag about this shit on the internet. I’m sure some of these guys had legitimate interest in her, so she just sucks. I agree that it’s the same as dudes who string chicks along to screw them. It’s lame. I know this isn’t realistic, but the world would be a much simpler place to navigate if people weren’t lying about every tiny goddamn thing constantly. There are plenty of men who would’ve bought her dinner just to be seen with her if she’d asked for it. There are plenty of women just looking to get laid if the guy would just ask for it. But sadly, the world doesn’t work that way.

      Ok, end rant.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  8. SeparatedGuy Says:

    Let’s now condemn Powerball. All it does is string people along making them think there is a possibility of winning riches that would have one set for life. Lotto players know their odds are slim — they know they’re unlikely to win — but they push that belief to the back of their minds in order to dream for a day or two that the ticket they bought is going to be the winner.

    Many daters being used are likewise complicit in the whole situation. Objectively, many realize the dates don’t hold the promise they might imagine but they want to dream of finding what they’re looking for.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 16

  9. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “For example: the woman who wrote the XO Jane piece implies she got steak and lobster dinners from men she met off OK Cupid and Craigslist. Really? REALLY?? Because all the guys who can afford to blow a couple hundred on a first date dinner all cruise….Craigslist?”

    I agree that there is always implicit bragging in these type of posts – I can get a man to pay for my dinners. What’s wrong with YOU that you can’t/won’t? In that particular piece, I don’t think it was the main point,

    These guys that take women out for extravagent dinners on first dates? Looking for sex. It’s essentially an unspoken arrangement. That’s the real irony to her story. They’re all using each other.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

  10. LostSailor Says:

    It’s one thing to date guys and have drinks and meals purchased for you without the expectation that you’ll like them and want to take things further. That’s what dating is all about. But that’s not what little Brittny did (what, did her parents run out of vowels?)

    No, little Brittny purposely schemed to con guys out of expensive dinners in restaurants of her choice because ramen noodles weren’t good enough. She specifically chose men that she otherwise wouldn’t date, acknowledging them as her victims. She went out with “horrors” and apparently thought of them as “things” (“I went out with everything”). And it was all just so exhausting! Well, yeah, honey, grifting takes work.

    Of course, all her lady friends thought it was “brilliant” cuz, uh, Free Food! And Patriarchy! (Patriarchy makes everything all right!) Where the fellas saw it for what it was, fundamentally dishonest boarding on fraudulent. That’s also why she wrote several pieces about it, it’s bragging to the sistahood. You go grrl! Get ya swindle on!

    And then the rationalization kicks in: I explained that I didn’t see this as any different than a guy who buys a drinks for a girl at a bar in hopes of getting laid, to which he responded, “Both parties are satisfied at the end.” Pssh! Has he asked the girls he’s sleeping with if they’re 100% satisfied?

    Aaaand, swing and a miss. Guy buys drinks in hope of sex, girl gives sex and her bar tab paid for. That’s the “parties are satisfied” part. If she has issues with the quality of the sex, that’s a different matter. Ditz. (For the record, I have asked, and the answer is yes.)

    Plus she got a lot more out of it than just free food! She honed her acting and interviewing skills. She “figured out” what she likes in men (I’m assuming besides their wallet), and she got “kickass” writing material (the jury’s still out on that one, hun). The guys got, well, not so much; they got to waste lots of money on a two-bit hustler and hopefully, though doubtfully, learned an expensive lesson.

    Kudos to the restaurant manager who called her out on her shit. She deserved all of it.

    This is precisely why any man who remotely has his shit together will refuse fancy dinner dates until a relationship is established. And will dump any woman who repeatedly pushes for pricier eateries.

    I also note that one of the men whose identity she exposed in the screen cap of her email inbox (xojane needs better editors, and perhaps lawyers) has responded in comments. The blowback could get interesting quickly. And if you do look at the comments, drill down for the comments by “Omplatic”: truly elegant examples of trolling as high art…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3

    • fuzzilla Says:

      >The blowback could get interesting quickly.<

      Exactly, that's why I don't really think anyone's saying "you go, grrl, you so crafty" as much as they want page clicks on the web site. (Well, maybe you're right and there are a bunch of "you go, grrls" in the comments; I haven't read them. I think xojane's rationale was more attention seeking than signing off the behavior. Which is still a lousy rationale, just sayin'. The "OMG" factor earned it a link on this website).

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    • Speedy Says:

      Doxxed with a vengeance by the weekend.
      Internet culture one way or another if not The Final Boss Of The Internet themselves.

      Poor girl.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  11. D'Alias Says:

    Nonsense

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  12. Brad Says:

    I like the juxtaposition of (all caps because of copy & paste from xojane):

    “I CRUISED OKCUPID AND CRAIGLIST FOR DATES SO I COULD EAT”
    (written by a girl right out of college)

    to the other article making the rounds:

    “Why Are So Many Professional Millennial Women Unable To Find Dateable Men?”

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/larissafaw/2012/12/05/why-are-so-many-professional-millennial-women-unable-to-find-dateable-men/

    We might as well join them together under an article titled ‘Why Do My Decisions Have Consequences?!”

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1

    • fuzzilla Says:

      >We might as well join them together under an article titled ‘Why Do My Decisions Have Consequences?!”<

      Ha, pretty much.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    • India Says:

      Women who are more financially dependent on men – for food, living expenses – are actually more likely to find men and be in relationships. They have to set a different bar as their basic needs are dependent on men.
      The well- educated, financially independent women don’t depend on men for fancy dinners or anything else. They can buy these things for themselves. She can afford to be pickier and choosier and hence less likely to “find a man.”
      Interesting juxtaposition, but I don’t Think they are related.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 9

      • mindstar Says:

        “The well- educated, financially independent women don’t depend on men for fancy dinners or anything else. They can buy these things for themselves.” But do they? Or do they still rely on the man to pay for everything?

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

  13. Zaire Says:

    “It Happened to Me” needs to be retitled “What Were You Thinking”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  14. Mark Says:

    Read the article….

    Ya’ know what makes a 9 or a 10 on the guy scale a 1? A really bad attitude.

    This constitutes bad attitude. Hell, she even calls these guys victims.

    If she merely indicated that she was only out for an expensive night out or something similar but that the guy should have absolutely no expectations of this going anywhere, then I might concede that she has a point or two. But here attitude from the outset was “What’s mine is mine and what’s in your wallet is your is negotiable.” Especially since she readily says she didn’t see the harm in her actions.

    Still, I do have to fault the guys who felt the old spending a decent chunk of change to impress her were almost equally culpable. That is to say culpable of thinking with their heads. And I don’t mean the one above their shoulders. If they were played for chumps it’s because to a large degree they allowed it. Their bad, they should have known better.

    Sorry, ladies. But it’s the experiences like this one that makes men cast around with a jaded eye.

    All I can say is that all too often karma is a B****.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  15. Speedy Says:

    This is a symptom of a far deeper problem, older generations wouldn’t understand the frames of reference.

    Women like this do exist but they are relatively few and far between. Further, the game is they know you know, and a transaction between two adults is fine, and a lot of men are very happy with this arrangement (to be fair, a lot of women struggle to understand how this could be possible but its just one of those things, the gender used to being judged on jobs and social standing is going to see as an extreme form of normal, not a new category of experience). Your grandfather knew what a partygirl was, a sailor’s date on coming into port or whatever, thats fine.

    The question arises though as to how this could go on and people not know what was going on.

    I ask not for the first time just how the XOJane readership gets into these weird antagonistic “relationships” where people continually and casually mistreat each other. How are people so cold and separated from each other that they can’t connect like I’d expect normal people manage just waiting in a queue for a bus? Is there a mass wave of autism sweeping the nation? Why are people so poisoned? I’ve had dates with nice people I wasn’t really compatible with, no harm done and maybe a fun night was had anyway. Thats honestly the worst of it, I just don’t get how they manage to make such an unpleasant mess of things and behave and have other people behave like robots or cartoon characters. We’re in uncharted waters here if much they say has happened is true.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3

  16. monica Says:

    This is sad, pathetic, and immature…It’s one thing to con a couple of guys for a meal, yet it’s just plain stupid to feel that this behavior is worthy of writing about and posting an article. Two wrongs do not make a right. Yet, if men would think with the upper head (above the waist) and not the lower head (below the waist), they would not fall for cons like this. Why would the average guy on craigslist take a stranger to an extremely expensive dining establishment unless he wants something in return(?)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  17. GoneWithTheWind Says:

    “dangling the possibility of commitment to women in order to get sex.”. Is this what you really believe or what you must tell yourself rather then face the real reason someone doesn’t want to spend time with you? And what is your opinion of a woman who has sex with a man and chooses not to see him again? Did she dangle the possibility of commitment to men to get sex? Or did she decide this was not the right person for her?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  18. Tat Says:

    I feel like this kind of behavior would only ever work for younger women, which after checking her age, she definitely is. Older women, even if they wanted to try this, wouldn’t be able to get away with it. Even if older women had the entitlement issue and expected guys to pay for the meals, I doubt she’d find many guys to keep that going. Maybe the random sucker or two.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

© 2013-2018 And That's Why You're Single All Rights Reserved