Is a Man’s Height Really That Important?

April 18th, 2013

Dating, Dating & Height, Meeting Women

Name: Roymaw
Comment: Dear moxie and those who comment frequently,

Whats a short guy to do?

So here’s the deal, I’m 27 and independent. I am good-looking and look very young for my  age. I am a sharp dresser and funny and charming, people in general adore me. I have accepted these truths after being told this by a variety of people with no relation or bias to me. My confidence is the highest it’s ever been in my life, and I love to build on it every day.

My main insecurity, which does not bug me nearly as much as it used to, is that I am 5’3. I have had women who are attracted to me tell me that they wish I was taller. I feel like in those situations it is them feeling self-conscious about their height, not mine as I don’t mind taller women at all.

My question is: When I’m in a situation where a woman ‘wishes I was taller’ should I call her out on it and make it clear that her height does not make me insecure? Or am I better off looking for women who aren’t bothered by the difference? Or should I just stick to the shorties? Looking forward to your feedback.

Thanks,
~~Roy
Age: 27
City: Boston
State: Ma

 

A woman who tells you, to your face, that she wishes you were taller is not  a nice person. That’s the first thing you need to understand. She doesn’t really wish you were taller. She’s trying to make herself seem less shallow and obnoxious. You’ll never be taller than 5’3″. That’s just reality. They know that. It’s a fixed escape. By saying to you that they wish you were taller, they’re trying to gracefully (in their deluded mind) exit the conversation.

It doesn’t matter that her height doesn’t bother you. It matters that your height bothers her. She’s not genuinely concerned for the blow to your ego that you might take by being out with her. She’s contemplating the sneers and smirks she will receive by being seen with you.

Let’s face it. 5’3″ is short. It’s not Michael J. Fox short. It’s short.  By 27 years old, you know this. You can proceed as though it’s not, but you’re not helping yourself. Unless you have a number #1 sitcom on the air with a million dollar movie franchise behind you, no amount of charm is going to make up for your height. I’m not an advocate of repeatedly shooting out of your league. Should you swear off taller women? No. But they are not your audience. The “shorties” are.  I have to admit that I hear a disdain for shorter women in that sentence. That’s akin to a chubby woman saying she doesn’t like to date “fat” guys. Whether you like to hear it or not, the “shorties” are your target market.

I am a sharp dresser and funny and charming, people in general adore me.

Right, but do you understand that many of those people are probably being disingenuous? While I’m sure there are plenty of people who like you, just by being 5’3″ some people are going to naturally condescend to you thinking they’re doing you a favor. So don’t buy into all of that. That’s no different than the deluded women who go around saying how “everybody” think they look 10 years younger than they are. Most of them don’t. They’ve just been told that they do because people can smell their insecurity or need for attention. It’s not real.

I think a big part of your problem is that you’re taking all this feedback you receive and believing it. You said it yourself. People “adore” you. Orly? Don’t you think if that were the case then some of them would toss their personal biases a side and date you? You want to believe that your personality and charm should make people overlook the fact that you’re 5’3″. The problem with that is that that charm might not actually exist. You’re believing the hype instead of facing the reality of your situation. No good comes from that. The dangers to existing in an echo chamber where everybody tells you what you want to hear is that you end up believing that you’re something that you’re not. If you’re going to repeatedly gravitate towards people who swoon over your charm and personality, you’re going to continue to go up against what you’ve encountered. That being, a bunch of douchey women who pretend to wish that you were taller. Notice how they don’t say that they wish they were shorter. They’re making it about you. They’re telling you in a subversive way that they perceive you to be flawed.

Focus on women that are focused on you. Learn ways to meet women who don’t find your height an issue. That’s where you’ll have the most luck.

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77 Responses to “Is a Man’s Height Really That Important?”

  1. Sarah Says:

    Roy, have you tried making hundreds of thousands more dollars? That’s really the only thing that will make women — even the “shorties” — look past your height. Otherwise, I think your target audience is the under 5′ crowd.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 32 Thumb down 26

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    • N. Fetchko Says:

      What a nasty thing to say Sarah! You do not know this man or his financial situation and there are women out there who will love him for who he is. US society is way too materialistic and values money more than human qualities.

      That said, yes height is an issue. I am about 5’4” myself and the shortest person I was ever involved with was 5’8″. I was married twice (I am older than 27 and my exes were both about 6;1″) I am also not attracted to fat men, bald men, Asian men, but mostly stupid or conceited men… Does this make me a bad person? Perhaps…. But attraction is a chemical thing, not based strictly on looks.

      I agree with Chris, there are plenty of shorter women out there: 4’10” to 5′ 2″. That is probably 20% of the female population. Perhaps you should target them. I hate to say this, but the vast majority of women do not want to date a shorter guy, unless he is Jon Stewart or Tom Cruise. (in other words, rich and famous). But look at Danny de Vito and Rhea Perlman. They were together long begore being rich or famous. Only advice: be honest and if it is an issue for the woman, move on. She is not worth your time!

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 17

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      • Landlord Says:

        You’re criticizing others yet you do the same to generalize fat men, bald men and Asian men? Not only are you a bad person, but now you’re a racist. You’ve just made billions of enemies. Congratulations!

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    • Mark Says:

      I don’t get any of that. I think the main problem is that short guys lack confidence and women like confident guys. I am 5’7″ which is also short for a man yet I have never experienced height discrimination. I have dated 5’6″ to 5’11” girls (more on the taller side, mainly because I find tall girls more confident and I like that) and the taller ones were more concerned that I may not like them as I was concerned about my own height. I also found that height is more important to shorter girls than the taller girls. My advice to you is you are 5’3″ accept it and get girls with humour, fun dates and respect. Most guys just don’t cut it these days and girls will compromise on height to be with a nice reliable confident loving funny guy.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

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  2. Mark Says:

    Good letter Roy;

    Nice, succinct ant to the point.

    You sound grounded and a healthy self esteem, so your question about height cuts to the chase.

    There is attraction and there is chemistry.

    You can’t get to the chemistry stage if you don’t pass the attraction stage.

    Your short, no two ways about it. That raises the issue of attraction.

    As you noted, for many women, height is an issue. That may be especially true in the online world. You probably won’t pass many filters (explicit or implicit). So If you have your stuff together and are otherwise witty, smart, attractive and successful, then in the real world you have a much better shot at success. So women who are shorter may look at you with less of that bias in mind. Not always, because as with most things, it depends.

    In any event, best of luck

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  3. fuzzilla Says:

    Hey, Iggy’s only 5’1″:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH8hkTnjPPo

    Okay, do I have an actual comment to make? I think Moxie’s got it right. Find your audience and stop overanalyzing/seeking comfort from the compliments of those who aren’t in it.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

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  4. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I don’t have anything to add to Moxie’s advice, which is solid.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

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  5. fuzzilla Says:

    I have no clue about the quality, but there’s this:

    http://www.shortpeopleclub.com/

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  6. Ashley Says:

    The social norm and expectation is for the man to be taller. Thanks to the other social norm and expectation that men are supposed to be the protectors, this makes the idea of shorter men seem less valuable in that area. Of course, this can be overcome but individual women and men must give up the standards placed my society.

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    • Greg Figueroa Says:

      I think the usage of overcome is a bit much. The shorter side of height is not a disability (unless you was a little person). Some women like taller for the reasons you stated and some don’t care.

      Sidenote: it’s interesting how we focus on the negative side of things or things/people we think we can’t get. OP can’t get tall girls, so they become his focus.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

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    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Social norm.. bah! It’s only evolution.

      It’s a common delusion: believing that humans have more choice about our feelings then we really do.

      You can’t blame, shame or change a force of nature like evolution, so blame society. But no amount of blame will change us.

      It’s like trying to punish a body of water.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

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  7. Greg Figueroa Says:

    OP, you do know that most/some women will not like you for whatever reason and that’s fine, like Moxie says, go for the ones that do.

    I’m Puerto Rican, I don’t worry about the women that don’t like Latinos. Unneeded frustration and you are projecting your insecurity about your height.

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  8. The D-man Says:

    I don’t feel like this part of the questions was answered: When I’m in a situation where a woman ‘wishes I was taller’ should I call her out on it…?

    You advise him to stick to the short girls, but what should he do if he finds himself in this situation? Surely you don’t think he should just avoid talking to taller women altogether?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      You’d treat the situation the same as you would a response from anyone who’s not so nice: Don’t engage and keep it moving.

      **Surely you don’t think he should just avoid talking to taller women altogether?**

      Yes, that’s what “knowing your audience” is. Sure, there might be exceptions to the rule, but you’ll be much, much happier and less frustrated if you focus your energies where you’ll have a higher success rate.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

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      • The D-man Says:

        I guess my point is, if has any kind of social life he’s meeting taller women on a regular basis, not just online. If a tall girl is showing signs of interest, It seems silly to avoid hitting on her out of fear of rejection.

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          That obviously doesn’t happen so much or he wouldn’t be frustrated and writing in to an advice column.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

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        • Joey Giraud Says:

          A 6′ 1″ ex-girlfriend of mine married a 5’5″ guy. He was pretty macho though.

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    • LaMotta Says:

      I think if one of them says something like that, he should call them a “she-douche” (or compare the statement to guys dissing fat women) and report back with their reactions of shame. I love hearing about comeuppances ;)

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    • GI_JANE Says:

      As moxie always says, “you don’t deserve to be shamed”. Get out of the situation and leave women like this alone once something like this comes out of their mouth.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

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  9. Craig Says:

    “Should you swear off taller women? No. But they are not your audience. The “shorties” are. I have to admit that I hear a disdain for shorter women in that sentence. That’s akin to a chubby woman saying she doesn’t like to date “fat” guys. Whether you like to hear it or not, the “shorties” are your target market.” – Moxie

    This would ordinarily be sound advice…except 5’0 women want all the 6’0+ dudes too. That’s how you know it’s not about just having a guy being taller than them for women…it’s a status thing. Although a 5’5 dude would tower over a 5’0 woman, he’s still short in their eyes. And they won’t be having any of that. What would their friends say? Now if you ask women about their preference for height, they’ll say they want a tall guy so they feel “protected”. If you ask them what they need to be protected from, you’ll get a blank stare in response.

    But I can’t hate on the ladies for this. If guys are gonna prefer to not date fat chicks, the ladies are allowed to prefer to not date short guys. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. It’s not fair, but then life rarely is. Welcome to the real world. So in the end, my advice to the OP ends up the same as Moxie’s: target women his height or shorter until he finds one that doesn’t mind that they literally see eye to eye. Such women are few and far between, but they’re out there. After all, there’s a lid for every pot.

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    • LaMotta Says:

      Totally true. 6’0″ is like the minimum desired height for a guy, even by women under 5′. It’s pretty ludicrous — but the purpose of my post is not to complain about that.

      The OP should still play to the 5’0″ honies… just don’t expect any attention from them to pierce through the iron curtain of dating site filters.

      I’m 5’10” and the last few women I’ve dated (long-term) were an inch or two shorter at most. I would not have made it through a dating site filter for any of them.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

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      • Joey Giraud Says:

        At 6’6″ I shouldn’t even be commenting on this thread, but I have had women look at me and say “you’re almost too tall.”

        I think the preferred range is pretty narrow.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

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    • Speedy Says:

      But at the same time this gets built into something its not.
      I’m 6’3″ and life is not an Lynx (Axe?) commercial for me either.

      Actually you can’t win anyway. Some women think height in a partner makes them look ‘dumpy’.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

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      • Eliza Says:

        No Speedy – what makes a man look dumpy it not having any muscle tone at all…regardless of height. If you are fat, out of shape, and hunched over – it won’t matter if you are 6’4 tall. Also, if you have zero energy, and a negative vibe and energy – that alone will make women disappear from your sight. A tall man with a nasty disposition is not prize. So–I disagree–that you can’t win. Sorry LaMotta–but it’s good news…a man doesn’t have to be over 6’0 at a minimum, unless the woman is 6’5 and does prefer someone that tall…then so be it. If a guy is mature, has his act together, physically and fiscally fit, emotionally stable, and has a great disposition and easy to talk to – those attributes go a long way. Not all women are strict about height. 5’3 is rather short–but a woman that is 5’4 – 5’6 may overlook that height issue to be with someone that has so many other redeeming qualities. The same goes for thinking that ALL men want thin/small framed women who are not slightly heavy…it’s the whole package that matters. Attitude, friendliness and intelligence.

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        • Speedy Says:

          Makes THEM look dumpy because they are short and you are tall.
          Dumpy means short and fat, like a dumpling.
          For the record I have a BMI of 23 thank you very much.

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          • Eliza Says:

            No–dumpy means out of shape in general. I have seen some tall guys with Buddha bellies and hunchbacks too…not pretty. You can be short or petite, but very toned, and in better shape than someone taller, and have more muscle tone. Women don’t like men that are tall and look like string beans either–unless it’s a woman that prefers a guy with a runner’s body–extremely lean. As a general rule, if a guy is not obese, and in fairly good shape, most women will be OK with that. A person doesn’t have to have a 6-pack, but be somewhat fit, and have a positive attitude. Re-read my statement. I was suggesting that the OP look to date petite women that are anywhere between the heights of 4’11-5’5….this way the difference isn’t too obvious.

            P.S. dumplings are great. Dim sum. :)

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            • Speedy Says:

              No it doesn’t.

              OED.
              Dumpy meaning ‘short and stout’ is from dumpling (early 17th C), which in turn derives from rare adj. dump ‘of the consistency of dough’.

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  10. wishing u well Says:

    I think that yes, this is true – height can be an issue, but it can be overcome. How in shape are you / how on point are you (career, life goals, etc) / how much charisma you have / how you dress & present yourself can overcome the height issue. Online dating might help as if you’re honest about your height, the women who date you will know upfront, and likely not care.

    I’m 5’6″ish, almost 5’7″ without my heels. I’ve dated men shorter than I am, and they were so together, confident, manly, and fun that I really didn’t care about the height issue. In fact, I recently dated a guy who looks me in the eye when I’m sans heels, and yes there may be some initial adjustment (as in I’m automatically used to looking up – the typical guy who asks me out is at least 6 feet) but you get over it quickly. And once I learned this for myself, the height concern went out the door for me. As long as I’m not towering over him, as I do have my limits (a 4’11” guy doesn’t have a prayer with me), height is not insurmountable.

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    • Joey Giraud Says:

      I think age changes your tastes. Next woman simply *must* be 5’9″ – 5’10”. ( not really, but if wishes were fishes.. )

      6′ and over is like hugging a guy. And I’m tired of bending over to hug and kiss the 5’8″ and below.

      yeah, getting picky.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

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      • Joey Giraud Says:

        And I should apologize to the OP for what must sound like bragging. Not intended.

        But I have a NY friend who’s about your height and does alright with dating. He just doesn’t think about it.

        Still, he has the same “crazy girl” problems all men have.

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  11. Kristine Says:

    I’m short (5’2″) and I dated two guys who were also “short” (5’6″). As with all things, it totally depends on the person. One of them I was incredibly physically attracted to despite the height, while the other one, I just couldn’t get passed his height. It really bothered me. I think that subconsciously this had more to do with his personality than necessarily his stature. While I admittedly do tend to prefer taller guys (like most women), there is another guy who I know (he’s married, with kids, and we’re just colleagues) that is very short- maybe only an inch taller than I am. His personality, the way that he carries himself, how much of a family-man he is, and all of those other non-physical characteristics make him very attractive- and actually, all height comments aside, he’s not even “cute.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

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  12. Matt Says:

    Okay, if you DO wish you were taller, maybe dress or present yourself in a way that gets people to not think about your height. Vertical stripes in your outfits, for starters.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11

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  13. meh Says:

    roy, there is a lot of bad advice here today. stay confident & ignore the negative comments here about your personality. some women irrationally hate short men. women want to feel small & dainty so they go for taller & bigger men. that’s a fact. that’s life. ignore people who say it’s not real.

    you need to stick to the shorties. don’t even bother with women who aren’t at least 4 inches shorter than you. that way they can still wear 3 inch heels (once a year) & not feel bad going out with you because you will still be taller. Working out & getting broad shoulders & a big chest will help you seem bigger too.

    a woman who says “i wish you were taller” is not going to date you so don’t bother. you can’t change their mind. so don’t waste time on them. walk away & hit on someone shorter.

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    • LaMotta Says:

      Totally. I know some dudes a couple inches shorter than me (and I’m only “average” in the US) and the ones that are built don’t seem “diminutive” at all. It’s the subconscious assumption that a short man is “diminutive” that is probably the biggest issue.

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      • Eliza Says:

        True LaMotta….I have met men who were on the short side – being, 5’5-5’8 but they were in shape…nice build. Not scrawny, so that does make a difference–for me. And I recently met a man that was actually 6’3 or 6’4…but he had the worst temperament and difficult personality–so his height didn’t matter at all…not a pleasant person to be around. So height doesn’t have to be EVERYTHING, or a deal breaker. And I am petite’ only 5’4 without heels. I love wearing heels though. If a guy is confident, and has other things he brings to the table, I am sure there are plenty of women out there that may overlook the height issue.

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  14. Karen Says:

    When I was younger I scoffed at short guys and I’m 5’0″. The best relationship I ever had was with a guy who was 5’5″. I realized how much more comfortable I was with a shorter person. We fit together perfectly! My youngest son is 6’5″ and sometimes you can be too tall.

    the women who cannot see past only wanting the tall men are only looking at others perception. You don’t want that anyway.

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  15. Kurt Says:

    The man’s height is very important to most women. I can understand why a woman taller than him wouldn’t want him. However, I bet that the OP gets really annoyed when women a couple inches shorter than him reject him for not being tall enough – that must be rough to deal with.

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    • Kurt Says:

      The OP should hit the weight room. If he adds some muscle mass that might effectively “add a few inches” in the minds of some women.

      When I see a man with a good-looking taller woman, the man usually seems to have an athletic build.

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      • Eliza Says:

        I agree. Again, there are men that are tall–but fat, and out of shape. Which is worse. in my opinion.

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    • Greg Figueroa Says:

      I wonder if he gets a lot of passive comments from women his height or shorter regarding his height. Some women nitpick and comment on things that they wouldn’t want the guy saying anything about them.

      I was reading another article and the writer was discussing her need to nitpick her boyfriends look to “help” him, but admits in the comments with other commenters that it would hurt if their boyfriends tried to fix them or say comments about their looks.

      So I can see some women making “harmless” comments or jokes about his height, but getting sensitive if he returned fire.

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      • Kurt Says:

        I agree. Those women probably don’t think it is a big deal to tell him they would date him if only he were taller, but I bet that a woman would be really pissed off if a man told her he would date her if only her ass wasn’t so big or if she didn’t have so many wrinkles!

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  16. VJ Says:

    Some good advice, but I’d not wholly write off all those who are taller than you automatically. You may get lucky sometime. But in general? This is one of the most pernicious & ancient stereotypes out there. And sometimes there’s good reasons for this Height does confer some automatic advantages, both economic & socially: http://www.nber.org/papers/w15090 and it typically does seem to confer some mating advantage to those who are taller: http://www.academia.edu/511189/Height_and_reproductive_success_is_bigger_always_better

    So it’s a well known impediment and bias that seems to be almost universal in much of the Western world. But you’re approaching with an open mind & a good attitude, but Sarah is quite correct. When asked in many survey’s, most women ‘required’ the guy to be earning at least in excess of $150-200K per year before ‘they’d seriously consider a short BF’. That’s tough, and it’s also nearly impossible to meet such a standard. So it’s still one of the hardest prejudices to beat. A black marrying a white in the Deep South in the 1950’s would seem to be more likely to most women.

    Still, if you play the game right, and if you’re keeping yourself up and are attractive, some brake out may be possible. That may take a really intelligent or empathetic gal, but they’re certainly rare indeed! Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’

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  17. Z-gal Says:

    I have a guy friend who is about 5’3″ (and bald and Asian). He is currently dating a white woman with genuine red hair who is 5’6″ and attractive. My guy friend is also a tri-athlete, rides a motorcycle and is an engineer and attorney. He exudes confident and masculinity. He prefers women taller than he is.
    Bottom line: I do not think that you should stop pursuing taller women. Pursue who you find attractive. If the woman doesn’t like you, you move on. No big deal..

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  18. Sandy M Says:

    The working-out, gym thing is great advice. I’m 5’11” and my boyfriend is 5’6″. When I first met him, I was attracted but also a little put off by the height difference (he’s short for a guy and I’m tall for a girl). BUT – he was built (and exceptionally well dressed). After a few days, I just didn’t care about the height thing anymore. He so strong and can pick me up and carry to me to bed. THAT’s what we want (or me, a tall girl who is into shorter guys, anyway). :)

    I know people look at us and snicker, but I don’t care. I’m happy. (So glad I’m still on the mail list, because that subject line caught my eye. Best of luck to the OP!)

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    • Sandy M Says:

      *dates* – “after a few dates”

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    • Horace Says:

      I’m 5’6″, and one of my best and longest relationships was with a woman who was 5’11” (she was also 8 years younger, but we won’t go there). I wasn’t that well-dressed, but I’ve always had a good build, and am (I’d like to think) reasonably attractive. Luckily, she was a leggy tall girl, so our torsos mostly matched up during missionary :-P

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      • Sandy M Says:

        Haha Horace. I too am “leggy”. It probably only really matters when the height disparity is more than a few inches. My thighs and glutes have become very toned though – an unexpected bonus to a relationship with a shorter guy. :)

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  19. ISOf16 Says:

    Hey…… I’m 6’2″ tall. Where are all those tall ladies? Most of the ladies I see online are around 5 feet 2 inches to 5 feet 6 inches….. So all these ladies cannot be that much taller than Roy. And about the difference of height….. As the saying goes….Tell those ladies … “Don’t worrry what people think, they don’t do it very often”

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  20. Erwan Says:

    Well, I am 5,3, 40 years old and balding and it sure matters, especially online, which doesn’t keep me from getting a reasonable amount of attention (not always wanted, by the way). I have some status and it helps both objectively (appearing in the pappers is good) and subjectively (makes you more confident). This is the kind of status which is within the reach of virtually anybody, however. Requires guts, dedication and hard work, not money.

    Anyway, Moxie is right, knowing your audience is key. My girlfriend (found online and she initiated) is 4,9 and I had specifically ruled out anybody above 5.5 (and even that is stretching). It just feel too akward.

    The OP should also use self-derision. In my profile I stated that I wanted a short girl because I had been traumatized by a stepladder accident in my youth. Earned me some uccess

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  21. Loveliee Says:

    I say go for the shorter girls. When I was online dating, I specifically put in my profile that height didn’t matter (as long as they were taller than me) because I’m pretty tiny myself (4’11). I did want someone taller than me, but that someone could have very well been a guy who was 5’2 :) also, I have a cousin who is 5’5 and married to a lovely woman who is 5’9. Every woman he has ever dated has been that tall, so taller woman who don’t mind are most certainly out there!

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  22. LostSailor Says:

    Roy, since your height is something you can’t control, I’d say just continue to work on aspects of your look and personality that you can control. Whether other people tell you you’re funny and charming is irrelevant; it’s whether you think you’re funny and charming and whether it’s working for you in your relationships.

    I know a guy who is your height, successful in the financial industry, who dresses well and can be funny and charming–when he wants to–and is fairly successful with women. But they are nearly always his height or shorter. I think that’s just a fact that you’re going to have to deal with. It may be superficial and shallow, but it’s also true that most taller women are not going to be attracted to you because of your height. Trying to sort through that group to find the women who aren’t bothered by your height seems like a waste of time and energy.

    As for the women who would actually tell you they “wished you were taller,” I’d just walk away from such crass people. But if you wanted to call her on it before you walk:

    “Really? I wish…
    …you were smarter.”
    …you weren’t so rude.”
    …your tits were bigger.”
    …you were shorter.”
    or “Really, I’m actually taller lying down.”

    Good luck.

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  23. Horace Says:

    Oh man. THIS convo. Let me tell you that absolutely NOBODY understands the plight of being a short dude, except for a short dude.

    I’m a short dude. At 5’6″. People do not get it. Dating is work. I have to work for it. I’ve had SEVERAL women say to me almost the exact same phrase: “You’re [insert positive adjective]. If only you were taller…” I don’t care if that statement makes them a bad person or whatever (no guy does).

    And people give shit advice about it. Yes, most of the advice offered here is shit. Mostly dumb appeals to morals and sentiment. Nothing really useful. Guys want to be successful with women. We don’t want to feel better about being unsuccessful with women ;)

    Here’s my advice to short dudes everywhere:

    Consider dating a points system. You need to score a certain number of points with a woman. Being short, you lose A LOT of points up front. Thus, you have to be the best possible version of yourself in order to compete, doing EVERYTHING in your power to win some more points. Charm can win you some. Being well dressed can win you some. Having a hot career, an exciting lifestyle, an active social life, white teeth, a fit physique, sharp wit, charisma, confidence, etc, can all win you a few more points.

    I do it all. Everything I can. And even at my height, I do reasonably well (I haven’t always, but I haven’t always put in the work). It’s about game and swagger (for lack of a better word) and presentation when you’re short. My friend who’s 6’2″? He can be as big a jerk as he feels like, groom poorly, dress like shit, etc, and still score more women’s phone numbers in a night than I can in a month. It’s a points system. He’s got a lot by default.

    Roy’s problem is common to almost all short dudes: a lack of certainty. Not confidence. Certainty. I approach a girl in a bar with a certainty that I’m worthy. I know her initial sentiment might be “he’s short, and thus not worthy.” I approach with a certainty that she’s wrong, and she’ll see that in a minute. I have a certainty that I have the points.

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  24. Em Says:

    This actually brings an interesting point – at least for me. I’m well aware of the stigmata of short stature in boys. I’m a physician treating kids with short stature. I can predict pretty well the final height of a girl or boy, lets say age 10. I can say a now 10 year old boy, it going to be 5’2” to 5’4” by the time he’s 20. In the vast majority of these situations – there is NO medical conditions – just that the parents are short – hence the child is going to be short.
    There are 2 options – either do nothing or spend 20k/year for the next 5-7 years giving that child daily injections of Growth Hormone. The hormone will give him 1-2 inches in the final height – at a cost of about 100,000$ – not paid by insurance. Advantages – giving him a chance to be 5’5-5’6”. Disadvantage – cost is prohibitive for most families, there are daily injections, growth hormone has, a least a theoretical potential, to cause cancer if not given for a medical required condition.

    Hence – what would you as a parent or young child want?

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    • meh Says:

      women can complain about men being shallow but women can lose weight, grow their hair long, use makeup, etc.

      what can men do? this 3rd option. and it’s not pretty:
      http://gma.yahoo.com/york-man-grows-six-inches-surgery-184123767–abc-news.html

      there is a reason the phrase “tall, dark & handsome” has the word “tall” as the first quality.

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      • Eliza Says:

        meh – true–but to a certain degree – if a woman is not “facially” beautify or doesn’t have the genes – and is not blessed with a nice body – and that is usually defined as somewhat tall–at least 5’3 and up – witih long legs – and shapely ones at that, nice full hair and just basically aesthetically pleasing, with symmetry – they are also SOL — there are certain things women can do to make themselves more appealing…but makeup can only do so much. It merely enhances features that are somewhat attractive. The same for exercise. If you are huge…you are huge. It’s all about DNA. AND – women are judged more based on the external – than what they attain career-wise, or by other traits – initially at least. So, trust me, meh, not easy being an unattractive woman in today’s society – where standards are held very high (no pun intended).

        What can men do? Tons of things. If you are 5’3…forget about the height. Focus on your personality, charisma, career, social skills, manners, dress the part, you have control of these things.
        You can only work with what the man upstairs gave you.

        Tall, dark and handsome…sure – remember – Not everything that glitters is gold.

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        • meh Says:

          oh boy. you are not helping anyone repeating this terrible advice that short men know doesn’t work.

          this isn’t about who has it worse. it’s about how looks matter to both genders. stop pretending height doesn’t matter to women. it does & those other qualities you listed do not cancel that out.

          did you read the article i linked to? men are voluntarily having their legs broken & paying thousands of dollars for it to be done. because it matters.

          did you read Karen’s comment? it isn’t until a woman is older & has passed up a bunch of men taller than her that she will realize that she needs to look at men with a reasonable height disparity. women don’t need more than a 4 inch height disparity but that doesn’t stop women from pursuing those tall guys.

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        • HammersAndNails Says:

          If a girl is slender with a good figure most guys absolutely do not care how short a woman is.

          I’m 6’3 and I’m seeing a girl now who is 4’11 . I don’t care either way. Shes extremely petite in all regards so she looks great and it’s fun having such a crazy level of tossability. I also enjoy 6′ tall legs for miles girls. Height just isn’t an concern.

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          • Eliza Says:

            Never said height is an issue for women. Just commenting on how ridiculous it would be for Roy to focus on what he really can’t change…rather than play up his other features. There are SOME level-headed women who may be on the petite end, and who may not be as “shallow” as some men may categorize them to be. Understand the OP’s situation–but brewing about the inevitable, isn’t helping matters at all. And not overlooking how some dismissive women can be…but welcome to OUR world…where we are judged by our looks quite often. If a man is short, is more apt to meet someone more or less his height if he is pleasant to be around – as opposed to a negative-minded, nasty jerk. That simple. Which is why some of the not-so-pretty women out there, may be the funniest, wittiest and nice women – why? They compensate in other ways. It’s a blog–and it’s my perspective…just as you are entitled to have your own. Secondly–I know some very short women – who are not even 5’0 – and they want a tall dude – like 6’0–which is absurd. But whatever. Geez. Live and let live. Share your thoughts, and allow others to do the same.

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            • HammersAndNails Says:

              Are we having some sort of argument I didn’t get the memo about?

              You said:
              not blessed with a nice body – and that is usually defined as somewhat tall–at least 5’3 and up – witih long legs

              I was just saying that, in my male opinion, a girl can be 4’10 and still have a great body and beautiful legs if the shapes and proportions are right. Not exactly sure how you managed to take that as confrontational.

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              • Eliza Says:

                Don’t have a cow now…my comment was towards Meh, when he wrote:
                “oh boy. you are not helping anyone repeating this terrible advice that short men know doesn’t work. ”

                It’s not advice. It’s merely someone else’s viewpoint…hence, why this is a blog. Opinions. That’s all it is. and sure. 5’3, or even 4’11 – doesn’t really matter for a woman, as long as she is deemed “attractive”, which sure is subjective…but in general – healthy long hair over scraggly thinning hair and put together, dresses nice, isn’t obese. Men can get away with having pot bellies, and being bald! LOL…true…you guys don’t have to sweat over that stuff…as long as you offer other intangibles. Mostly a winning and nice personality. Believe it or not.

                In short (no pun intended), a guy that is not model-tall and built like some GQ man will score many more points by appealing to women’s senses – that is, a sensible woman. and yes, there are some left in the playing field. I should have said “defined as tall”–since women aren’t necessarily held to a high standard – with respect to height. Weight is a different story. But only if their are grossly overweight, not proportionate. We are all “visual” at first.

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  25. Roy Says:

    Moxie and everyone,

    Was not expecting to have the day off, but with Boston on lockdown and a load of laundry in the dryer, I’ve decided to distract myself by responding to all of this.

    I should have clarified that I am not aggressively dating at this time. I’ve done a few speed dating events through ATWYS, and I am looking forward to the art and wine social event next Saturday. That is how I found this blog in the first place.

    I have nothing against short women. My use of the word shorties was meant to keep the question clever sounding. Also in my mind ‘shorty’ is a term used to describe a sexy petite woman. It’s certainly not the N-word for short people.

    This social situation I described is not one where I am desperate and frustrated. I am not chasing tall women for their approval and then being slapped with an “I wish you were taller.” I’ve been in casual conversation with random people and have had women insert themselves in the conversation and start flattering me. And some of the taller ones have come out with that comment. I don’t see those women as bad people, I see them as ones who can’t get past the idea of being seen with a man my size. I am very selective about the women I want to share my value with, so if they truly have that hangup I am not going to chase them and try to make them change. However I feel like there is an opportunity to make it known to those women that there is no shame in being attracted to anyone.

    I have a 27″ waist, so I suppose that is considered scrawny. I do have good muscle tone and I love how my body looks in the mirror. I look forward to building up my chest and arms a little more as I’ve just added martial arts classes to my workout routine.

    I am not naive, I know when someone is condescending to me. I’ve been cute as a puppy all my life, so I know when I’m being treated that way. And I also understand how being a cute guy costs me big points in the physical side of security in a woman’s mind, especially if there are no threats for me to display my ability to protect.

    I am not in an echo-chamber of constant positive feedback. In fact when I did not have confidence I was in an echo-chamber of constant negative feedback. When I regained my confidence I grew to be a lot more genuine, and in turn started interacting with others in a much more genuine way. This has caused those around me to be more genuine with me. Many have said positive things to me in very genuine ways, and it took me a long time to accept those truths because I was still listening to the negative echoes. 

    I’m fine with being overlooked(pun intended) by most. I know what I want. A woman who wears a dress and heels as well as I wear a suit. Should she have to look down at me literally, she won’t do so metaphorically. Taller is better in my mind because I would love any future sons of mine to have a better genetic opportunity than myself to at least break 5’6. What is more important is that this woman brings a value equal to my own to any relationship.

    And thank you Horace, I do my best to really make myself into as much of a total package as I can. I do lack that certainty, and that’s the reason why my charm is not 100% when I am having a 1 on 1 with a woman. This probably explains how I can bomb two speed dating events in a row despite having so much fun at the bar itself during intermissions and after-parties. Now I’ve got something a little more definitive I can build on.

    Glad I threw this question out there! Thank you for the feedback everyone!

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    • Robyn Says:

      Hi Roy,

      FYI: You don’t necessarily have to have a tall wife in order for your children to inherit “tall” genes. You could do just fine with a “shorty” who happens to have a lot of “tall blood” in her family.
      On the flip side, it is entirely possible for 2 “taller” parents to end up with some of their children not being tall, if there’s some “short blood” in one or both of the parents’ families.

      My parents ended up with a bit of both of the above.
      My Dad was 5’8″ – which is below average for a man.
      My Mom was also 5’8″ – which is above average for a woman, but not super tall.

      4 of their 5 children ended up significantly taller than both the parents (I am 5′ 11″, which is pretty tall for a woman, & my 3 brothers are all taller than I am, 6′ to 6’3″). But No.5 – my little sister – ended up being much, much smaller (she’s about 5′ 3″ , very small frame and weighs about 105 lb!).

      I have the opposite “height” problem from yours, being a tall woman, but share the same frustration as in it’s something that you pretty much cannot change (but at least you can wear lifts in your shoes & gain a few inches – I don’t have any way of “getting shorter” alas…).

      Good Luck in your quest for Ms Right!

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  26. jennifer Says:

    I’m 6’0 and will never settle for a shorter man, mainly because of sexual logistics.

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    • Marii Says:

      @Jennifer. Please explain the “Sexual Logistics” of which you are referring. I can’t wait to hear this one!

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    • Horace Says:

      Sex would be comical. I’ve actually always wondered about really short women with really tall dudes, too. Sex must be so impersonal.

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      • Joey Giraud Says:

        Not as comical or impersonal as you think.

        If you want yuks, watch some nature show about hippos.

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  27. Petitemimi Says:

    Date asian women! They’re averagely 5’1″.

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  28. D'Alias Says:

    To all: some women are sexually attracted primarily to tall men. It’s not all about social status or “what their friends will say.” Hitting the gym to bulk up isn’t going to do much for the woman who wants a tall man. You can’t trick somebody into not noticing that you’re short. FYI, there’s plenty of short girls who like tall men.

    Roy, I don’t think you should limit yourself to short women. Talk to as many women as you can. When there’s something about you that falls outside the norm, it makes it that much harder to find true love. The net you cast should be WIDE as possible, not narrowed based on some unproven theory like short = short.

    And if you want to call these women out who say “I wish you were taller” than do it! These ladies are being rude.

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  29. Objective Says:

    Don’t feel too bad Roy. I’m 5’8 and I get rejected by the 5’4-5’8 crowd. I don’t get a pass for being Asian despite the fact that 5’8 is actually considered tall for Asians. Here in America 5’8 is average to most people. That is the reality that I have to accept at my height. You can’t change your height so you have to accept the fact that you have limitations at your height. I agree with the early poster where if you’re monetarily gifted then the ladies will overlook your vertical challenge.

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  30. black yoda Says:

    Good advice….especially about people being disingenuous. I imagine people telling him how adorable he is shortly before they pinch his cheeks or pat him on the head. :-) A woman who wishes a guy was taller is like a man who wishes a girl was prettier. Even if you think that, who are you to say that to someone you’re talking to? The lack of empathy on the part of the women he’s interacting with is striking. He definitely needs to hang around a better group of women. He also needs to accept who he is and let go of any resentment revolving around his height. If he can’t, he might try a dating site for little people so he can play Shaq. Hey, if you can’t be the shark in the pool, why not be the guppie in the puddle? :-)

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  31. monica Says:

    If you are cute, personable, and stylish women will want to date you.

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  32. Joe Says:

    I think short people and short men in particular are victims of discrimination in society. I think your advice to Roy above was good. I certainly agree that a woman who tells you to your face that she wishes you were taller is not a nice person. And it’s interesting how you responded that she didn’t wish she was shorter she put the “onus” on him to be taller. It’s not about her being too tall, it’s about him being too short. And this really is the focus of my website supportfortheshort.org. Heightism – the prejudice against short people is an acceptable prejudice in society. And short men are more frequently the targets than short women are. The sort of thing that Roy was talking about above is just par for the course for short men. Short people are discriminated against and it’s becoming more and more obvious. I strongly recommend that you visit the twitter feed on ‘exposing heightism’. You will see probably the most extensive collection of hate comments against any group in the mainstream. I think by viewing those thousands of twitter tweets that clearly show the absolute hatred for short men by many women you will come away with a different perspective on the real feelings of society toward the short and in this case short men. I believe that prejudice against Short people is truly one of the last major unaddressed prejudices in society

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