Do Men Consider Women In Their 40’s Relationship Material?

Name: NBKEYBOARDACCESS

Comment: Moxie,

I’m a 40 yo single woman who has usually had a boyfriend, hence, I just started online dating about 5 months ago. Needless to say, it has been a disappointing and discouraging experience. I’ve never proactively dated, so I’m on the naive side. I do look 6-10 years younger,(and yes, I know every girl says this, but I’m happy to attach pictures to confirm)and am often asked out by men in their late 20’s to early 30’s. I recognize that these men have no interest in a relationship, but I’m always up for a fun night so I occasionally go. When I first started online dating the endless parade of dates was fun and exciting, but it got exhausting fast. 80% of them were unattractive or incompatible, and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand. Mind you, OKC was my site of choice.. so now I’m trying to limit myself to men who want more than a one night stand and to that end, will be upgrading from OKC to match.

My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30’s/early 40’s consider 40 year old women relationship material, or should I limit myself to 45+ yo men? As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.
Age: 40
City: Brooklyn
State: New York

and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand.

I’m going to blow your mind right now. Ready? I will bet any amount of money that Mr. Relationship was part of that 20%. Here’s why I know that: because most women haven’t a clue as to how to determine whether a man is just looking to laid. Unless these men came out and told you they just wanted a one night stand, you have no evidence to back up your theory. All you have is years and years of crappy advice from your girlfriends. Something you’ll need to understand about men and dating now is that they prefer sex to happen sooner than later. If it doesn’t, or there’s too much challenge presented, these guys won’t think twice about Fading on you and looking elsewhere. Because they can. They have options that you don’t. So while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb. I happen to think that the days of men judging women for having sex too soon are pretty much gone, save for the men here and there with the fragile egos.
My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30’s/early 40’s consider 40 year old women relationship material,

For the most part? No. Certainly not if they want children. But you’ll pursue them anyway, I’m sure because you’re convinced that you look young enough to be considered relationship material by them. That’s why you made it a point to mention your youthful appearance. You were setting up your defense. (And mind you, I wrote that part before I even read that last line.)

should I limit myself to 45+ yo men?

I don’t know if I would say that you should “limit” yourself to them. I think a better word is “focus.” You should direct your attention and efforts to meeting men in the 45+ range if you seek something committed and long term. If you seek a relationship, then you need to be looking at the Divorced Dad crowd and the guys in their mid/late forties to early fifties. Which isn’t a bad thing.

I don’t understand this whole thing about not wanting to date guys in their mid-forties. Yes, I know. You’re really active and fit and still dance like nobody’s watching, like when you were 25. You know what is the best thing about dating men 45 and older? They actually want you. Unlike those 38 year olds you’re hanging your hopes on who might date you for a few months until someone younger comes along. Because she will.

As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.

Nope. They pretty much still prefer younger women. The ones who are open to dating a woman of 40+ are in pretty high demand. If you want them, then be ready to go to the mattresses, because you will have stiff competition. Age trumps hotness, I’m afraid. Except with the younger guys. They just want to bang you for the story and experience.

I realize that this isn’t what you wanted to hear. But the fact is that you’ve had a string of boyfriends and nothing appears to have resulted in what you wanted. Or maybe it did and you’re just looking for a guy to date for a little while. I don’t know. What I know is that you’re now 40 and you’re doing what you can to find reasons why you can’t meet someone appropriate. It’s not OK Cupid’s fault. Welcome to dating at 40. Match isn’t going to be much different, especially if you try to get the guy in his thirties. This is what it’s like. You had 15+ years to find your Mr. Right. For whatever reason, none of those worked out in the way you wanted. Now you’re hoping that lightening will strike again.

The problem isn’t an algorithm or a website. You’re grappling with facing the reality that this is how dating is for you now. I’ve noticed that the women who return to the dating scene at some point in the last few years struggle the most. The dating landscape has changed and will continue to change change rapidly. It’s just..harder now. Especially for women our age. I’ve said this before: the 37-44 year old men in Manhattan and even Brooklyn aren’t looking for us. You’re going to have to branch out and start looking in Connecticut and New Jersey or even further. If you insist on local, then you have to channel your search and make yourself available to the 45-50 crowd. A lot of men 40-45 are still hanging on to the possibility of having children. Even if that pang to reproduce is faint, those guys are going to naturally seek out women they believe are of optimum child bearing age.

Dating isn’t like a vending machine. When the last Snickers bar is gone, the universe doesn’t magically put 10 more in your path. Your choice is to wait around for someone to come along and refill that option or select the Twizzler or Baby Ruth. Yeah, it’s not what you originally wanted. Someone came along before you and bought that Snickers before you could have a chance. That’s what it’s like to date at 40 in Manhattan or probably any other major city where there is an overage of single women to single men.

You can continue to pursue the late thirties to early forties guy. I’m not saying that getting one of them to commit is impossible. What you have to ask yourself is whether the frustration you will experience by holding out for them is worth your time. You also have to consider is whether or not you want to take those hits and run the risk of becoming less available and more impatient. There really is nothing more sad than listening to a woman in her mid-thirties and older complain about online dating and dating in general. The stench of bravado and remorse in her words is a pungent one.

 

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208 Responses to “Do Men Consider Women In Their 40’s Relationship Material?”

  1. LaMotta Says:

    > while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb.

    Or it’s not some sort of pre-mediated “test” — it’s just that men form a bond based on the physical relationship much earlier than women.

    I think there was indeed a time when there was social programming whereby men would override this urge, and consider women who would give in to sex early on to be non-relationship material, but men dropped that attitude with the Sexual Revolution. As you amply point out, women haven’t dropped this (because this social programming was actually emergent from women’s desire to control competition, not imposed on them by a paternalistic society, but I digress!)

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    • Howard Says:

      i have not been on these boards for a min. It’s interesting how the questions never change much. It certainly sounds like the OP met a few. Contrast that with the people who had a hard time even meeting people to go on a date with them, or worse, hardly a response to their online ad.

      We have to work with what comes our way. It’s like playing the hand we have been dealt in a card game. We always have options, but never as much as we think. Women and men may cringe at hearing this. But most 40 plus people who were never married, were either too picky or too anti-social, and that why they have never been married.

      No intention on my part to beat you up about the past, but if you want to change the outcome you have to do things differently. The people you meet are entirely the people you set yourself up to meet and hence your level. You are hoping for the unattainable, and it’s not a man, it’s a concept. No man is perfect. The man for you, may even drive you nuts at times or he may initially appear to be too short or too old or too quaint or too average or too uneducated or too uncultured or not buff or too anything from a long list of things that disqualify men.

      And by the way, all men want sex with you. It doesn’t make any man more a villain because he handles that less poorly in his presentation that Mr Suave. Unfortunately the presentation of some men leave a little less to be desired. I still firmly believe that your best chances are with those guys rather than the smooth operator with whom you really have very little chances. Substance versus presentation is a battle women seem to be losing in current times. We are the short attention span generation, and easily wowed by the the material things society tells us matters most. And men and women are continually easily fooled by great presentations.

      Stop assuming. Stop being so picky. Pick a better online site. Get out to real world situations, and not entirely depend on online dating. The better guys don’t have the time to get online and when they do, they don’t have the time to send many messages. Even the best looking, most educated or wealthier guys have to send numerous messages online to get enough responses, So guys have become turned off by online dating especially if they get some attention in real life.

      At 40, things are less favorable than at 28. The age range that is interested in you starts to shrink. Good guys have already hooked up while you were playing coy, so the pool has dwindled. If you are looking to have kids, it’s even worse, because most men are not looking to have kids with the forty plus woman. We can lament about how right or wrong this all is. Don’t worry, men have their list to lament about, paying for dates, having to send numerous messages online and many other things. I would advise you to spend your time working with what you have.

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      • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

        Yes, you mentioned the last time you popped in that you haven’t been here in a while. the questions don’t change, etc. We get it. You’re so above it. Girlfriend blah blah. You’re free to leave and not come back.

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    • Shadowcat Says:

      Judgement from men for “too soon” sex didn’t die with the sexual revolution. I will argue as someone who works with an 18-22 year old population that it is alive and well, thankfully no where near as rampant as it was in years past, but still in existence. The difference is with real adults (ie: people in their 30s, 40’s etc) no ones expecting to find any virgins and we’ve all moved on from that attitude. And even that’s relative, I recently had a me friend in his late 40’s reject a woman for a relationship claiming she had “too much mileage on her car” so who knows? (He still took the sex though)

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    • 4BLS Says:

      I find the advice given in this article to be incredibly sexist. So, you’re saying that a 40 year old man will not marry a 40 year old woman because she is too old to have kids? But what makes you think he can date tons of 35 year old and younger women? Those women are looking for the hotter younger guys their own age (or maybe younger!) You are assuming that there are plenty of younger women who want to date older men. I’m sorry to break it to you, but times have changed–it’s not the 1980s anymore! Women outpace men in number of college degrees earned nowadays and very soon will earn more than men on average. Many young women see no need to date an older man when they can have a younger hottie–the younger guy has better genetic material–older men’s sperm, like women’s eggs are less fertile and carry more genetic abnormalities. The greater financial security of the older guy is not as enticing as it once was when women were excluded from career advancement and faced more workplace discrimination. Believe it or not, women love younger men even when we are in our 20s! I remember being 29 and never dated anyone older than 25.

      A man can walk around thinking he will only date women from 5 – 20 years younger than him. But I and many of my friends refuse to reply to men who specify these requirements when we search through dating profiles online. To us a man who only cares about a woman’s youth and beauty is not a man who values women very much at all. And why would any woman want to date a man who only cares about her physical appearance and almost nothing else? That is very disrespectful. If you are a guy who is 40+ and expect to date a woman 5, 10, 15 years younger good luck and enjoy being single, Because those women are dating men their own age.

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      • Chris Says:

        The problem with your argument is that it’s not just their youth and beauty that men find appealing in younger women– it’s also the fact that younger women don’t come with all the emotional baggage that the women who’ve “hit the wall” come with– the worst examples of which being baby-rabies (i.e. her clock is ticking, so she really doesn’t want a connection with the actual man, but rather just his utility value in getting her pregnant and providing a supplemental income while being OK with getting stuffed into a dark corner in the back of the house for his trouble), the fact that women have some SERIOUS transference issues when it comes to what they expect a man to love them for (news flash ladies: unlike you, the men you all seem to want won’t fall in love with you because you earn a high income or bring a lot of social status to the table– they’re actually indifferent to it, either up or down, when it comes to escalating your value as a romantic partner), and for that matter, the fact that women seem to think they should have the right to tell men what they should want in a mate… especially since most of you wouldn’t know how to keep the guy even if you did manage to get him in the first place.

        As for men who go for women who are 5+ years younger than them, my guess is you’re part of that “80% of women” who only want the “top 20% of men” and any other guy is just dogmeat, right? Well, guess what– those “top 20% of men” are in high demand among younger women as well (it’s quite common to see men in the mid- to late 30’s partnering up with women in their late 20’s to early 30’s, mainly because women that age are chasing established men instead of men who are in the process of still building their career). To put it as simply as possible, the worst a younger woman will be to him is a woman his own age in a better body, with the added bonus of it being less likely he’ll have to accept some other guy’s kids from a previous marriage that she most likely blew up (women initiate divorces anywhere from 2-9 times more often than men depending on demographics) for stupid reasons like “she got bored” or “she fell out of love”… which really just translates into HER being too shallow to honor the commitment SHE made when you married the that man, and/or too lazy put forth her own fair share of effort that any healthy relationship requires.

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  2. Greg Figueroa Says:

    I remember I saw a woman online who said she was 35 with glamour shots from the 80’s. Tell OP that her youthful appearance hasn’t helped her, so it doesn’t matter. It has to be a big adjustment to go from highly desired to look past.

    I wonder for women who played games because of the sheer amount of options they have as someone in their 20’s-30’s, do they adapt easily or refuse to acknowledge the shifting tides of dating in their 40’s?

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    • Yvonne Says:

      How would you know that the OP “played games” when she was younger? We don’t know her full relationship history. And you can still be “highly desired” in the age range you’re in. Frankly, I’m not looking at 25 year old guys either.

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      • Greg Figueroa Says:

        What do games mean to you? Flirting, presenting yourself a certain way, acting ladylike or chivalrous when you have other desires, emotional games during arguments, and rules people use to filter out people. I’m not saying all games are bad, it’s a part of the dating process.

        I was more curious about the changing situation from not having to proactively get dates to trying set dates up because the younger women are swallowing up the attention.

        When you have options like she once did. Someone will always get disappointed, she doesn’t have to answer every message she gets online or through the phone, and she had the steady flow of guys to be picky over if she chose to. One of those guys will feel like she played games at times.

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  3. Deborah Says:

    What do you do if you are against sex before marriage as your religious belief and want to remain chaste in conversation with these men who expect sex right off the top with no commitment? I go on dates with these younger men because I’m in my 40’s and the men in their 40’s are divorced, and I’m against divorce. this helps me remain faithful and honorable. I’m definitely staying away from men who have children, are divorced, and that’s not getting to some of the characteristics! But it is proof of them though! Integrity, morality and honor ability come first. Of course as you know…people who are like this, no matter how many millions of them, and how much they excuse each other and form a consensus, are not honorable or moral, they are just your common trash. Well, can people smarten up, or, am I stuck with these creeps? I won’t look for a boyfriend in my church (which is the only one I would go to) because they are all married up early. It’s unfortunate my situation but really it’s because it’s taken me a while. I have Asperger’s Syndrome, so my social age is around 25. so really, it fits anyway. but I wasn’t ready until around age 40 to get serious, and I didn’t have my career in place yet or the money to travel to meet people in my church when they were younger and marriageable, and my parents were no help they just didn’t think about me! and this is just natural, I’m ready NOW to start from scratch, like a 20 year old woman. so I AM expecting to start with a clean slate. Not with someone who has done all this stuff expecting that we should all find this acceptable. Since people do live up to higher standards, (it exists) and I’m not the only human being who does this, how can I speak to someone with these ill-expectations you speak of in a way that, they can quit pretending they don’t know just to try to get away with imposing low standards on me? thanks. Excuse me for being sick to my stomach. it’s not funny. but I am not mean about it, I just can’t believe that people act like they don’t KNOW this already. but ok. so lets hear your advice towards a faithful person who is doing things morally. Are you able? Or am I wasting my text?

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    • Deborah Says:

      P.S by the way, I was raped already, and I couldn’t believe it, but that’s how forceful men are these days to get their early sex, and I’m really serious about making my point, because now I’m completely upset too. Rape isn’t funny.

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      • Rosie Says:

        And no men with children. Have you thought that some of those men might be widowers?

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    • meh Says:

      “I didn’t have my career in place yet or the money to travel to meet people in my church when they were younger and marriageable”
      i don’t know who told you to do that but that was your mistake. men don’t care about your career & when they were marriageable you didn’t marry them, now you are stuck just like every other 40 year old woman who made the same choice. you can be mad at the world but that was your fault. you chose to prioritize your career and now here is where you are. alone & old.

      my advice to you is to go to different churches & go to their singles events. your faith shouldn’t be chained to one building.

      also you are judging men for being divorced but most divorces in america are started by the wife so maybe you need to be less judgmental about those men until you know the facts.

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      • LaMotta Says:

        Great comment.

        I also would point out that the OP seems to have ignored the obvious contradiction that her career-life choice (with work coming earlier) totally violates the anachronistic mores of her/her church. That’s why, ya know, everyone else at church has married up earlier — they’re sticking with the “whole plan”, not just choosing from it a-la-carte.

        The OP needs to face it: she already blew the Victorian-era Episcopal/present-day Southern Baptist lifestyle; time to adapt.

        By the way, the “no sex until marriage” ethic was created in the era when people got married at 16 (actually, even younger for women).

        It’s totally ridiculous (actually, sad) when people try to apply no-sex-till-marriage to a lifestyle where marriage doesn’t happen until mid-30s at the earliest. It will mess you up psychologically and socially. I suggest not applying it unless you really are living in a community where people get married much younger.

        Well, too late for the OP.

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        • Greg Figueroa Says:

          Lamotta, Don’t forget the women and men who pick and choose what sexual acts count as sex.

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    • Greg Figueroa Says:

      To truth is at your age range, a high majority of people have done sexual things or have emotional baggage.

      There’s nothing faithful or honorable about not being divorce (it happens), I would gather it was more out of fear in your case. What does a social life of 25-year-old mean. . .drinking, sex, mistakes, and trying new things.

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    • Jesse Says:

      Deborah.

      You live in the wrong town. Your best bet is to pick up and leave to another part of the world, a part more sympathetic to your needs and choices. Here in NYC, You’re just setting yourself up for being mocked.

      Sorry.

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  4. Hard ache Says:

    I don’t this this has anything to do with complicated math involving artificial age groups. This is a lie women seem really fond of telling themselves. It absolves them of more difficult hot scrutiny. I was speaking to a 60 year old who gave me the exact same math, but the numbers were just shifted upwards 20 years. I was so amused!

    I think it’s the candy land online dating offers in a big city with so many choices, I can literally spend days and still not read through all the profiles of 41-42 years olds on OKC. As a result, at the first sign of difficulty, both men and women, a little too easily, dump the relationship and go back to the store. Where before both sides would take an enormous amount of crap to make relationships work (remember mom and dad?), today there is far less impetus. That and the fact that the sudden competition allows us guys to get laid relatively easily. It’s what we’ve always wanted and we finally got it. No longer do we have to go through this enormous song and dance for it. Sorry! :-)

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    • Deborah Says:

      vomit! ok disease factory, have fun!

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      • LaMotta Says:

        Yeah, OK, this verifies you are either 150 years old, or have been sent into the future from the Victorian era.

        You see, these days, we have these things called “condoms” that largely take care of that little disease problem from your era.

        You might want to go back and take 7th grade sex ed (guessing it was illegal where/when you came from).

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      • Joey Giraud Says:

        and that’s why you’re single.

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    • Hard ache Says:

      Crap! Typing on an iPhone is really hard even to read back before posting. My apologies.

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    • julie Says:

      Great insight Hard Ache! So true! I’ve noticed myself acting completely differently online than I would with guys I met in real life. Its bizarre! Its totally a candy store. All shiny and overabundant and nothing has to go “wrong” for me to lose interest. Interest is simply unsustainable most of the time.

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  5. Deborah Says:

    I know these young guys can’t stay away from me because I’m so naturally sexy, without trying, but I don’t want their sex!

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  6. Deborah Says:

    Nevermind…I will just have a tough time finding people who will respect my values in this sick world. I take back my question. I obviously know they answer. now…just gotta buy lots of gravel so I don’t always want to puke on these losers, and leave them be to their whores. they will learn eventually, and I’m not going to wait up. :)

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    • Deborah Says:

      gravol I meant

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    • LaMotta Says:

      um have fun going and being “superior”, your problem all the more unsolved….

      We won’t miss you!

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    • Greg Figueroa Says:

      You sound like a joy to go on dates with. You are seeped with bitterness and fear.

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  7. WO7 Says:

    Moxie is spot on.

    You can go for whatever you want. But certain things will have a lot higher chance of success than others.

    So it all depends on what matters to you. If you’re willing to put in the effort and put up with the frustrations, then go for the long shots. If you want to increase your options, then go for the safer bets. Or maybe go for both? That way you are getting the full spectrum.

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  8. A to the F Says:

    Only men in their 50s consider women in their 40s relationship material. Simple answer.

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    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Mr 51 here agreeing with you.

      When I was in my late 20’s I found some late 30’s women highly desirable for their relative self-possession and more experienced wit.

      Now, divorced and basically well put together, I have no interest in women my own age range and above, even when I find them quite interesting.

      Not something I would choose. No “I deserve” attitudes or looking for a trophy.

      Just not motivated to chase them, and I respond poorly when they chase me.

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      • Joanne Says:

        What a pity for you that you don’t know your place and don’t appreciate your equal counterparts no wonder you are still on the market

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      • Shadowcat Says:

        I really wanted to neg this, because I didn’t care for the sentiment, but what is the point of negging honesty? I wish I was attracted to older men, particularly in my 20s, I would have been better off…

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        • Shadowcat Says:

          Sorry I was responding to Joey’s post above Joanne’s, and by the way peoe, stop feeding trolls!

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    • Mike Says:

      I completely disagree with A to the F. Speaking as a 40 something man i would be prefer someone of around my own age. I get a feeling that you are a 40 something woman who still wants to behave like a 20 something woman and this sends out the wrong message. Guys of my age are less hung up on appearances and superficialities (they have got fed up with counting their own wrinkles, have accepted that aging is inevitable, and are less likely to count others than you might imagine). What they value most of all is friendship. As a lawyer (an exceptionally stressful occupation) I want someone with whom i can relax, share interesting conversation with, have a laugh with. Even sex, although important, no longer assumes the importance it held 20 years ago. You seem a little uptight, superficial. and hung up on appearances. You need to decide what you want. If you want to be a cougar stick to 20 something men. This may be a cultural thing (i am not from the USA).

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    • Julianne Says:

      What a ridiculous statement! I know several women who in their 40s, married a second (as well as a first time) to men who were also in their 40s. In fact I am going to a wedding in two weeks; she’s 45, he’s 46 – second marriage for both. If what you say is true then these women wouldn’t exist. I live in a European country so maybe it is really different to the situation in the USA?? Most women are not interested in men 10 years older than themselves (works both ways for both sexes). This is something some men just say in an attempt to make women feel they are nothing and should make do with anything. If a man can convince a woman of such things, it means he may have more choice – shame it only works on the women who already have low self esteem.

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  9. meh Says:

    men in their late 20′s to early 30′s are looking for a relationship, just not with an older woman. I don’t care how young she looks. men will always date a younger woman. we only date older women to take advantage of them & get easy sex. it’s awful, but that’s the truth. knowing that, NB needs to date older men. I’m sure that’s what she did when she was younger.

    “the days of men judging women for having sex too soon are pretty much gone, save for the men here and there with the fragile egos.”

    that’s not true. we still judge women for this. this will not change. the time frame for “too soon” just gets smaller as a woman ages.

    if you are over 35, you can’t pretend to be a chaste woman because we know that by the time you’ve reached that age, you’ve been with plenty of men. so it does not help you to make men jump through hoops to sleep with you because we know that you’ve been around the block. you aren’t fooling anyone. and we aren’t going to work that hard for it.

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    • Penelope Jane Says:

      Have you ever thought about being mature and judging a woman as a person rather than an object to gratify you. Maybe then you’ll experience true love rather than lusty after youthfulness after all you won’t be young forever either and women old or young will not be lusting after you and yes it’s important for women to find you attractive too and men lose their looks with age also. This isn’t a one sided story so stop believing it is and look around at the men and their partners they are usually equal counterparts single ordinary middle aged men are not going to find it easy to get a gorgeous young woman to want them sorry to break that news to you. Look around you it is reality unless you count shallow rich old men who get women due to their wealth and they well deserve the shallow women they get. Pleasure is not the same as happiness.

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      • ABC Says:

        Penelope Jane says: “single ordinary middle aged men are not going to find it easy to get a gorgeous young woman to want them sorry to break that news to you.”

        Single, ordinary middle aged men can’t even get me and I’m 49. I would prefer them. However, they just look too old and I find that I’m not attracted to them.

        A male friend once told me that women don’t understand how difficult it is for average looking men to get women to sleep with them. In fact, I know a guy with model looks who has trouble doing it. So, if you’re older and very attractive and the guy is average looking…he’s not doing you a favor. You’re doing him a favor.

        There’s always an assumption in these discussions that the older woman doesn’t look as good as the younger man. That’s not always true. Sometimes the older woman is more attractive than the younger man. Do you think an average looking man in his 30s with a slight pot belly is going to think Monica Bellucci is just his easy lay until something better comes along? Not a chance. He’s going to speaking in tongues out of excitement and he’s not going to let go.

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    • Joanne Says:

      Have you ever thought about being mature and judging a woman as a person rather than an object to gratify you. Maybe then you’ll experience true love rather than lusty after youthfulness after all you won’t be young forever either and women old or young will not be lusting after you and yes it’s important for women to find you attractive too and men lose their looks with age also. This isn’t a one sided story so stop believing it is and look around at the men and their partners they are usually equal counterparts single ordinary middle aged men are not going to find it easy to get a gorgeous young woman to want them sorry to break that news to you. Look around you it is reality unless you count shallow rich old men who get women due to their wealth and they well deserve the shallow women they get. Pleasure is not the same as happiness.

      So many guys sound so high and mighty here as if they can have their pick, this is just not the case guys.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 28 Thumb down 19

      • Bob Says:

        “So many guys sound so high and mighty here as if they can have their pick, this is just not the case guys.”

        Joanne, the difference is that guys are not necessarily pining for relationships with older women. The next article written by a guy lamenting the fact that women are afraid of commitment will be the first such article.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 14

    • ABC Says:

      I’m in my late 40s and a very large percentage of men in their 30s look older than I do. Given that I have no problem dating them because perceived age is more important than chronological age….because perceived age strongly hints at your biological age. Compare Brad Pitt with other men his age. He hasn’t had any surgery. It’s genetic. Most 50 year old women would look ridiculous standing next to him. However, there are women his age out there who look just as youthful. People age at different rate.

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    • cake Says:

      Meh, I think your viewpoint is very narrow-minded and obsolete.

      To give you an example of why men don’t always go for younger women. My 28 year-old friend, extremely attractive girl, gets hit on everywhere she goes, was dating a guy in his early 30’s, tall, good-looking, well-established in his field. He was extremely honest throughout their relationship and told her that he didn’t love her and didn’t believe in marriage. After dating for a year, they went their separate ways but stayed friends.

      A couple months later, he starts dating a single mom in her early 40s and soon the guy who couldn’t love is in love. This guy also recently inherited a lot of money when his grandmother passed away. That guy has even confided in my friend that he plans to marry the single mom.

      My friend didn’t feel good about it, but I told her that this experience should comfort her about getting older.

      I am in my 20s so I can’t speak for men in their 40s, 50s, and older since I’ve had no experience with them, but many of my 20s and 30s male friends don’t even think about if their girlfriends looks younger or older than them, as long as they find the girl physically attractive. If anything, I feel like the preoccupation with aging is something that WOMEN obsess over in their own heads. I think the overall social trend is that men care less and less about dating younger women.

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      • ATWYSingle Says:

        This guy also recently inherited a lot of money when his grandmother passed away.

        I like how you mention that as though the fact that he inherited a lot of money played no part in why he’s comfortable marrying a single mom in her 40’s as opposed to someone his own age.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 13

        • cake Says:

          It doesn’t. But money is something a lot of women (not all) use as a measure of a man’s value. I added that in there to demonstrate that he has high dating value.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

      • ABC Says:

        Cake said:

        “don’t even think about if their girlfriends looks younger or older than them, as long as they find the girl physically attractive.”

        Going back to what I said before…

        Do we really imagine that the 30-something average guy with the slight pot belly is going to choose the 20-something plain girl over the 40-something Monica Bellucci provided that he can have either one?

        So, let me get this straight. If you’re a woman trying to have a relationship with a 30-something average guy it’s better to be a young plain Jane than an older Sophia Loren.

        This has got to be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 7

  10. Curious Guy Says:

    When I go on a few dates and the girl won’t go home with me I usually just give up on her. If she paid her was on some dates and I like her then I will try to make her a platonic friend. If she was a freeloader then I will fade or just invite her to my place without any more dates.

    I have had relationships with women after first date sex. If these particular women had refused to go home with me I would have given up on them and we would have missed out on a wonderful relationship.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 33 Thumb down 47

    • Marie Says:

      Well, that also works both ways. You are on this site, right? Maybe you missed out on a wonderful relationship with one or more of those women you liked that you gave up on, only because they were more conservative than some others you’ve been with.

      When talking about online dating, after a first date, you don’t really know a person much better than you did when exchanging messages. Everyone is on their best behavior. Whenever I did jump into bed with someone after a first date it was due to physical attraction only. Never a real connection. Sometimes it developed into more, sometimes not. Total crap shoot. A few dates in, on the other hand, I might actually like them because of who they are, not what they look like.

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      • HammersAndNails Says:

        Would you ever go on a another date with a man who said “I’m honestly not physically attracted to you, but it’s your lucky day I’m bored and have been wanting to change my facebook status to in a relationship,so ill let you be captain of the phone tag team, and plan and pay for a few dates to see if you can really impress me. “

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        • Marie Says:

          No, but that isn’t at all what I was saying. I’m saying you don’t know somebody at all after a first date, so how can you know if there is a connection?

          Also, there are different levels of attraction. Are you more attracted to Scarlett Johansson (insert your favorite celebrity here) than you are to the pretty woman you had a date with last week? Are you really equally attracted to everyone you find attractive at all?

          Not everyone looks like Brad Pitt. Will the Brad Pitt on OKCupid get laid more than the average decent looking guy? Yup, sorry. That’s just how it is. Does that mean he’ll get more relationships? Not necessarily. Depends on what else either party has to offer.

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          • HammersAndNails Says:

            I’ve been out with a plenty of women that I absolutely burn turn-down-scarlett hot for and I won’t/don’t need to settle for a woman who doesn’t burn for me. If the relationship lacks physical sizzle, I’m not really interested.

            I’m not disagreeing with you. I find your viewpoint to be both honest and realistic. All I’m saying is I’ll hold out for the girls that think I’m their brad pitt, because that primal sizzling attraction from both parties is important to me. I’ve had relationships with girls that just didn’t quite do it for me physically but were awesome people. It doesn’t work for me, and I don’t want that from anyone else. If she needs a ‘connection’ to offset her ‘meh’ first impression, I’m holding out for better.

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  11. Deborah Says:

    anyway after much research, with statistics, which I did about 5 years ago, I realized the right match for me would be someone between age 27 and 35. Because that is the age range they get out of college or university and are ready for a relationship, and because I’m religious and I won’t touch a divorced man with a ten foot pole, because IT IS A BAD THING, (how dare you tell people it isn’t, you pig) and I’m extremely insulted if a divorced man comes to me. It’s the “biggest” insult and it makes me very angry that people actually treat this as OK, and come to ME with their sin yet. Holy SHIT the nerve! Don’t come to me if you are divorced, you don’t deserve another chance, to be an adulterer! wow what morons. geez.

    It should be obvious that as a woman, I’m making a “complete” compromise going for someone younger, but it is the righteous and honorable choice! I may have been extremely relieved when I was thirty that I was now in an age range to date someone more mature…omg 20 year olds are horrible! Who even WANTS them!

    It was a horrible experience dating in my 20’s with these guys who are just gross and scummy. Good thing I was a tiny bit unaware just how promiscuous they were! If I had know how bad then, I probably would have been very ticked off.

    anyway, whatever, I am getting an attitude towards all this yes indeed. but…it is the honorable thing to do. Now, I realize all the points about them wanting someone younger and blah blah blah. Really I can see where they are at and that they are not even growing emotionally or spiritually but just being idiots but…I’m stuck with them. So, so far, they are worse that before. They are so disrespectful and hard to deal with and I’m stuck with them.

    But…I think we need a website that has men who are no divorced who are in their 40’s. I’d be down for that!

    If that existed I’d consider. although I confess I’m a little spoiled down by 20 year olds, man they look good! that’s all ALL they have going for them though, unfortunately! No career, no brain, bunch of gross promiscuous things, acting like high minded jerks, and they really aren’t all that. To be honest, they don’t even half of them deserve a 20 year old girlfriend, they are so gawd awful! but ANYWAY…

    I’m stuck with them.

    so now what? well, I hate waiting up, and I know they don’t want a 40 year old…even me who is NATURALLY socially younger, and is into all the things they are into! Indeed there is almost no generation gap! I am right with it. I’ve been called “cool” a lot.

    I’m cool, and then they find out my morals! then I’m not so cool anymore LOL. I don’t care. Lord…just send me a DECENT man I can love. :) I’ll put up with a younger one, if he loves me! I’ll give him a chance. I’ll try anyway.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 54

    • Hard ache Says:

      Oh Deborah! good luck dear…hugs.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 8

    • A to the F Says:

      Are we getting trolled here? Or is she actually as batshit crazy as she’s coming off here?

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      • Hard ache Says:

        ” I have Asperger’s Syndrome, so my social age is around 25. “

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        • hammersandnails Says:

          While I agree that she does sound significantly developmentally disabled, Asperger’s doesn’t fit very well to explain most of her obvious issues.

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          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            Please focus on the issues discussed in the post and not Deborah.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 8

            • Hard ache Says:

              Can’t you delete irrelevant comments?

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                I shouldn’t have to advise people to side step her comments. It should be a given based on what she says. Sorry if that interferes with your desperate need to concern troll her.

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 13

                • Joey Giraud Says:

                  Well people get a bit bored by the small carousel of topics so when someone unusual makes a splash it’s tough to ignore.

                  ( not to be mean; the topic of dating is meat and potatoes by nature… )

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            • LaMotta Says:

              I’m sorry, but didn’t she mention the Asperger’s in her post? It seems like a pretty important factor.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

      • D. Says:

        Unless she’s the OP, I don’t know that it really matters aside from her comments clogging up the page. If she is the OP, then my advice is simple: avoid online dating and meet guys at church or through friends. If that’s not working, then get thee to a nunnery.

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    • LostSailor Says:

      I have Asperger’s Syndrome, so my social age is around 25. so really, it fits anyway. but I wasn’t ready until around age 40 to get serious

      Sorry, Deborah, but your condition doesn’t make your social age “around 25,” it just makes you a little socially awkward and perhaps immature. That you waited till you were 40 to “get serious” is a fact you’re going to have to face: You’re not going to get a chaste, mature 20s guy. Just not going to happen. You are not “naturally” socially younger, and you’re fooling yourself if you continue to think that.

      anyway after much research, with statistics, which I did about 5 years ago, I realized the right match for me would be someone between age 27 and 35

      Perhaps that would be the right “match” for you, but men in that age range won’t consider you for a “match.” Especially the chaste men of high morals you seem to insist on. Especially since your attitude toward men is generally derogatory and disparaging. If you go into dating with the attitude that most men are sinful, slutty pigs, then sinful, slutty pigs are what you’re likely to attract.

      I’m extremely insulted if a divorced man comes to me.

      If that’s the case, you should wear a sign around your neck or have that sentiment tattooed on your forehead. Otherwise how will the hordes of divorced men know to avoid you as if you had leprosy? The unfortunate truth is that those divorced me will be enjoying their second and maybe third or fourth chances while you’re still waiting around and shouting at them. Frankly, we don’t care what your opinion is.

      The truth is that about the only place you’re going to find men that meet your strict criteria is church. That all the good ones are already married or too young to consider you is unfortunate. But the regular dating world is only going to offer you disappointment. The world will not bend to your will.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 3

  12. LostSailor Says:

    Moxie is quite right. NB, if you’re truly looking for a relationship, then your target market is going to be at least five years older, and likely more than that. So yes, your focus should be men 45-50.

    Whether men want children or not, it’s all about attractiveness. And you can kid yourself that you look 10 years younger, but men are not fooled. Yes, men prefer sex sooner rather than later, but you can’t know if the “simply wanted a one night stand” unitl you’ve slept with them one night and then they disappear. You’re 40 years old. If you don’t think that sex is part of a dating relationship, then you’re never going to move on to a longer-term thing. I agree that at your age, men aren’t going to be overly judgmental about your sleeping with them. We will all assume you’ve gotten your share over the years and not really much care about it; if you were younger, that might be different for the LTR-minded man, but not now.

    I also agree with Moxie that Mr. Right was probably in that 20%. You just have to develop the eyes to see him.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 12

    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Ya know, when people say they look ten years younger, it means they look ten years younger then they expected themselves to look at that age.

      Funny, I don’t have one friend who looks ten years younger then I expected them to look at their age.

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      • Yvonne Says:

        i’ve got some friends who look younger than others who are their same age. I’ve also got friends who look about the average for their age. and some who older than the average. Why would that be surprising to anyone? Genetics and how well you take care of yourself have a lot to do with how you age.

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  13. Yvonne Says:

    Dating does get harder as you get older, but I’ve had friends 40+ who are in relationships or have married good guys, and even had children with them. Men like women who are attractive and youthful looking, but in general, you will need to focus on the men who’ve already had kids or decided they don’t want them. I also think that there are men your age or slightly younger, who fall into that group. Also, don’t just rely on online dating; ask friends to fix you up, and try Meetup groups, social dancing, etc. People tend to have a laundry list of things they think they want in cyber-world, but in real life interactions, that can change. At any age, you always have to find the man who likes you enough to stick around.

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  14. Yvonne Says:

    Also, most of my coupled friend in that age range are with men who are within a few years of their own age, but more are with younger men than older ones. BTW, I live in a large urban area, but not NYC.

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  15. New_NYC_Resident Says:

    Something you’ll need to understand about men and dating now is that they prefer sex to happen sooner than later. If it doesn’t, or there’s too much challenge presented, these guys won’t think twice about Fading on you and looking elsewhere. Because they can. They have options that you don’t. So while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb

    Whoa. This is definitely not true for many guys. If a guy views a woman as marriage material, he will wait a long time for sex. I’ve waited as long as 6 months. A guy will show patience if he sees a girl as a potential wife, as long as there is some “sexual progress” as the dates progress, even if such progress is slow. i.e. if the guy is getting ‘positive feedback’ and positive reinforcement, he will want to work for this rare find, and will value it greatly. Few guys are going to walk away from their dream girl just because he isn’t getting his rocks off in the first month or two.

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    • hammersandnails Says:

      You are either a sucker or have 0 options.

      Dream girl? Hardly. It is my worst nightmare to be married to a woman who is OK going 6 months without sex.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 36 Thumb down 36

      • Joey Giraud Says:

        Spoken like a guy who thinks all men think just like him.

        Banging hard and often with many in your case, or in my case having a series of lovers, isn’t for all men.

        Some prefer to find one, put her on a pedestal to get the warm fuzzies so as to get the nerve to chain themselves to a life of duty, and the satisfaction of knowing they’re doing “the right thing.” If she’s sweet and not too demanding, so much the better. But to do your duty; feels great. Better then a 10 second orgasm.

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        • Matt Says:

          Joey, it’s a relationship, not enlisting in the army. If you’re with a woman because you feel it’s a duty or an obligation, then that strikes me as maybe missing the point.

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          • Joey Giraud Says:

            That’s not how I feel.

            But I know guys who do, and I’m not so narcissistic as to be unable to understand why they feel that way.

            It’s like you really can’t process that I’m describing someone else’s point of view.

            And I’m “missing the point?” As if your point is the only one possible.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8

        • HammersAndNails Says:

          That’s a very strangely written post. I’m not even sure if you are agreeing with me or suggesting I do the right thing and chain myself to a possibly demanding and nasty woman.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7

          • Joey Giraud Says:

            In your case.

            In my case.

            Some prefer.

            These phrases hold the key to understanding.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

      • Renaissance Says:

        The fact that a woman can go without sex for some time does not say anything about how she is sexually. I have had several periods in my life where I did not have sex with another person for years yet I know that I am really good in bed. My partners told me but they did not have to because I know it. Why? Because I am comfortable with my body (which is slim and athletic even at 48), because I truly enjoy sex and am not afraid of showing that and because I know how to give a guy a good time. I can however not have sex with just any man. I’ve got to know and trust a man before I feel physical attraction. Sex is never a purely physical act for me, my soul’s got to be in it so I cannot have sex with a stranger.
        If there is no man in my life, then sex is restricted to something I do alone (at least I am then doing it with someone I like and it’s guaranteed that it’s good :-)).

        Sex is serious business for me and not something that I ever want to be ordinary. And that’s probably why I am good at it. But also the reason why I wait with it.

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    • A to the F Says:

      An Alpha who’s dating marriage material might wait for a handful of dates or maybe a month to sleep with a girl, but not much longer and only because he’s getting some elsewhere. Then again, a true quality guy doesn’t have to wait, she’ll put out sooner than later because she won’t want to lose him.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 26 Thumb down 32

    • GManJamin Says:

      It is prefectly fine for you to wait to have sex with a girl. Just don’t think that she has made every other guy wait because by the age of 40 most have had one night stands or rushed into a sexual relationship with another guy. Be careful about putting her to high on a pedestal or you won’t be able to really see her. You will only see your dream version.

      The problem with this comes later after the high of a new relationship slows down and when you start to hear about her past. That is when you will think your precious flower has turned into a weed. But she was never a precious flower and she is not a weed. She is a woman. A whole women, that has experiences and a past just like you. It never is good for a relationship to think some sort of magic will wash all that away when you two meet.

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    • coptic777 Says:

      “I’ve waited as long as 6 months” Sorry however that is the move of a simp. I wonder how many men that girl you waited 6 months for let hit it the 1st or 2nd time they met. Typically women make a man wait once they are done “having fun & or career”. That happens around 30 when her looks begin to fade rapidly but not always. Anyways I bet you more a couple “hot studs” had her the first while you waited for this dream girl lol.

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      • New_NYC_Resident Says:

        Coptic – you know nothing.

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        • mindstar Says:

          Well New_NYC what are the criteria you use to define a “high quality woman”? For most men a willingness to engage in sexual relations sooner rather than later is a desirable quality in a woman.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 22

        • LostSailor Says:

          And just how many times, New_NYC, have you found the girl of your dreams, the marriage-material girl, for whom you’ve dated for six months before getting intimate? And how has that worked out for you?

          If you managed to marry that girl and are happy, good for you. I’m guessing not.

          Coptic has a point. If you’re frequently dating and finding a “dream girl” who makes you wait but never find that relationship, you’re being a simp. Depending on your age, you risk being played by women who are faking a “good girl” pose.

          I do agree that if there is pretty constant forward movement in physical intimacy short of sex, a man who is interested in a woman will wait, but she better bring other positives to the table. Most times, a man that will date a woman for six months without sex is somewhat self-delusional and unicorn-seeking.

          There’s a limit to how much physical intimacy can “progress” with leading to sex before you hit diminishing returns. If sex isn’t that important to you, then do it your way. But for most men, including me, sex is an important part of building a relationship. I’m not going to date anyone, especially if I think there is serious relationship potential, for six months without sex. If a woman has to wait six months of dating before sex, we’re not going to be compatible anyway. And a relationship in that case wouldn’t work.

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        • coptic777 Says:

          I know nothing & here you are talking about waiting 6 months or more to have sex w/ a “dream girl” that more than likely let 2-3 dozen men have her on a whim? I will no longer even respond to your comments on that one. I rest my case..

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 18

          • New_NYC_Resident Says:

            You have no case. Anyone who owns a web site called “black men vent” is likely bitter and cynical, with a toxic viewpoint on everything.

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  16. New_NYC_Resident Says:

    Logic fail, on all counts.

    Waiting 6 months initially to have sex has NOTHING to do with the frequency of sex after that.

    Sometimes, high quality women will make you wait to have sex.

    Waiting to have sex with a high quality woman doesnt make one a “sucker”.

    You are bitter and cynical – i am not.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 25 Thumb down 33

    • New_NYC_Resident Says:

      ^ meant for hammersandnails

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

      • Brad Says:

        High maintenance girls love to tell each other this story:

        Apple Tree Theory
        Girls are like apples on a tree while boys are the pickers:
        The best apples are at the top of the tree.
        Some boys don’t want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they just get the rotten apples from the ground that aren’t as good, but easy.
        So the apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, they’re amazing.
        They just have to wait for the perfect person to come along, for he will climb all the way to the top.

        Guys, take it from me: in my beta days I climbed this tree. The apples at the top taste EXACTLY the same as the ones near the bottom. EXACTLY. They are just more of a pain in the ass to get to. And more than likely there is an alpha with a stepladdder getting an easy bite of the apple you are climbing for.

        Girls who want you to wait want YOU to wait.

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        • Matt Says:

          Brad, I am SO stealing this and putting this on facebook. I remember reading that for the first time and thinking “… Really? REALLY?” Of course, the girl who posted that also said that God made men to be proactive and women to be passive, so I shouldn’t be too surprised.

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        • ABC Says:

          BRAD: “Girls who want you to wait want YOU to wait.”

          This shows how little some men understand women. The more I like a man the more inclined I am to worry about spoiling things by rushing into an intimate relationship.

          Just because you want something doesn’t mean you should act on it. That’s the mentality of a child.

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  17. Treifalicious Says:

    What is she doesn’t find men in their mid 40s to early 50s attractive? Is she SOL?

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Pretty much. A 45 year old guy doesn’t look all that different than a 40 or 42 year old guy. She just doesn’t want to date “old” guys because she’s so youthful thinking and looking. Or so she thinks. Her hesitation has little to do with physical attraction and more to do with her own resistance to getting older.

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    • hammersandnails Says:

      Basically her market value has fallen noticeably on her physical assets. If at 40 she is willing to be the breadwinner, she might snag a 35-40 dreamer/starving artist/wants in on her lifestyle type, where at thirty she could blow off such guys and wait for the guys with good careers. If she’s used to confident outgoing funny charming guys, she might be able to nail down a boring, slightly insecure, but younger, guy because he doesn’t have as many options. She can also offer noticeably more. If she can be more easy going, less demanding, less emotionally unstable, more warm, more patient, more sxually adventurous and open, more giving and more nurturing, and better cook, she can have a shot at getting the kind of guy that she got by flipping her hair and wearing a tight dress when she was younger.

      If she thinks she is likely to get the type of full package, her own age, she did at 30 now that she’s 40, acting the same way she did at 30, she’s not being realistic. If she thinks it’s not a long, long shot going after a younger guy, she’s not being realistic.

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      • Joey Giraud Says:

        she can be more easy going, less demanding, less emotionally unstable, more warm, more patient, more sexually adventurous and open, more giving and more nurturing, and better cook,

        OMG, I’ve just seen a ghost.

        Other then the culinary skills and training, are all those other items things that women can choose to do?

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        • coptic777 Says:

          Joey, the mangina in you is strong..

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        • LostSailor Says:

          Potentially a woman can choose to do these things.

          But if she’s still single at 40, the likelihood is that she’s more set in ways that aren’t these things, especially if she has been–and is still–relying mostly on her looks and basic personality to attract men. A lot of women in this situation will just double-down when confronted with waning success, to not necessarily good results.

          But H&N’s point is that a smart woman, someone who is capable of a little self-examination, will develop traits and behaviors that men who are really interested in a relationship will value. It’s the age-old question: what does she bring to the table? If looks are the main offering and it’s not working as well as she’d like, then, yes, she can choose to develop these things. The question is will she?

          NB, the OP, seems to be someone who can do this, if she realizes that men may not see her as looking as much “younger” than her age as she perceives. Her willingness to write in and her subsequent comments indicate to me that she has the capacity.

          Also, coptic is right. Quit supplicating; it won’t work…

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

          • Joey Giraud Says:

            LS, it was a lame joke. I expected offended slapback from the ladies, not PUA insults from the boys.

            Supplicant? … Didn’t feel like it at the time. PUAs have a lot of bravado, but I really doubt they walk the walk as they claim.

            Ever try fixing a marriage for the sake of kids? Not all women respond so well to the “Alpha Act.”

            Ever had kids or had more of a stake with a woman then a shared apartment?

            Of course women *can* change their behaviors, but if they don’t think they can, it won’t happen.

            I’m perfectly happy being out of it, not resentful in the least, and when I really want to I’ll get another; never had trouble before when I put my mind to it.

            But when I read someone telling a woman to change, and knowing full well that the Heartiste fantasy of being in full control at all times is just a fantasy, I don’t feel weak or beta in the least for engaging in some old fashioned male gallows humor.

            Even if it was kinda lame.

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    • AnnieNonymous Says:

      Age is a non-factor when you’re that age too.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5

  18. AnnieNonymous Says:

    A guy who actually likes you will wait out the two or three weeks it takes for you to feel comfortable enough to have sex with him. The more modern dating discourse that states that guys expect sooner makes it seem like you have to do it right away or you’ll be sad and lonely forever. You have a little time to work with.

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    • Matt Says:

      Sex at the early stages is like free breadsticks with pizza. You don’t need it, but it’s nice to have. Furthermore, if a guy can get a pizza with breadsticks for the same price as a pizza alone, he’s going for the pizza with breadsticks. So, bear that in mind- what does your pizza come with that the other girls’ pizza does not?

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      • AnnieNonymous Says:

        It comes with the person that I am. I value patience. if a guy can’t wait two whole weeks for sex, it’s not my problem and I don’t want him. Any guy who compares my desire to wait a short amount of time to other girls’ willingness to give it up right away can try their luck with those other girls, since apparently he has no trouble getting any of them to put out.

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        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          I just want to clarify that I don’t consider waiting two week or three or whatever “too long.” By challenge I mean making guys jump through hoops to prove themselves. I don’t consider a woman who waits awhile to have sex “challenging” just because she chooses to wait.

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          • AnnieNonymous Says:

            Ha I know you stand on this. To be honest, I think a lot of the guys here are more interested in debating whichever point rather than discussing how they really feel about anything. The thing that bothers me about the “guys can get sex from any girl they want, so you should put out ASAP” idea is that it gets twisted and creates an expectation that a guy will never be able to like you on your own merits, which isn’t true. I’ve never had an issue with waiting a bit if the guy actually liked me. He knows the sex will happen when the timing is right, and in the meantime, he’s genuinely enjoying my company as much as I’m enjoying his.

            That said, I don’t do online dating, and I generally have options. I’d be interested in reading a follow-up from the OP after she makes the switch to a paid site. Okcupid seems like a good starting point for getting out there and learning how to meet new people, but she’s not wrong for deciding that she should look elsewhere for real relationships.

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            • HammersAndNails Says:

              He knows the sex will happen when the timing is right,

              That’s a. not nearly always true and b. how is he supposed to know that your idea of the “right” time isn’t 15 dates or 6 months?

              I say this because women always like to exclude the times when sex doesn’t happen. It really doesn’t take much to get a girl to bail before sex. You say one wrong thing, or meet one friend who doesn’t like you, or whatever it is and you will just never hear back from her. The longer you wait for sex the more likely you are to have something come up that prevents you from having sex and the more time, energy, and money you are sinking.

              The same girl after sex might say “What do you mean when you say you ‘think reality tv is stupid’?” but if you say something that offends her before sex, boom – good luck getting a hold of her again. insta vanish, shes not at all invested.

              The pre-sex portion is bullshit anyways. guys are just doing what they have to to get past it.

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            • D. Says:

              There are two myths in dating that seem to lurk below the surface of these discussions that I’d LOVE to see dispelled. The first is that when a guy bails because he didn’t get sex it’s because he “obviously just wanted to use me for sex.” Sure, that can be true in some cases, but in plenty of other cases, it’s not about the sex in and of itself, so much as it’s about the guy getting the sense that the woman just isn’t into him. Related to this is the second myth: that in dating, women sit back and play “casting director” while guys do a song-and-dance routine for them to demonstrate their worthiness.

              Yes, it’s true that in the early stages of dating, guys are more likely to be doing the asking, picking the locations, and paying the tabs. But at the same time, guys want reciprocation, including the guys who are looking for a serious relationship and a deeper emotional connection. And sex factors into this.

              A guy who wants something serious may be willing to wait for sex, but only up to a point. And that point is whenever he starts getting a sense that she’s not really interested in him. No sex after a certain point is usually a pretty clear sign that the woman isn’t interested. Interest doesn’t HAVE to be demonstrated through sex alone (although that certainly helps), but it does have to be demonstrated SOMEHOW, or else he’ll move on. And that means more than simply continuing to accept dates from him or not totally rebuffing him if he moves in for a goodnight kiss. Guys know that “letting” them do this stuff isn’t really a demonstration of interest in them, after a certain point. It’s just her passively inviting him to continue courting her.
              So, here’s the truth, and here’s what I think the guys are trying to get across: showing interest is a two way street. The notion that a guy will keep courting them indefinitely while a woman sits back and makes up her mind about him — particularly without reciprocating his interest — is crap. While sleeping with a guy isn’t the only way to show interest, NOT sleeping with the guy after a certain point is a great way to show you AREN’T interested. Guys don’t like feeling like chumps. Once they get a sense that a woman isn’t really into them, it’ll kill their interest. If a guy starts feeling like he’s “making an effort” in dating, you’ve already started that slide towards him losing interest. If he’s thinking in those terms, it means dating you has begun to feel less like “fun” and more like “work.”

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              • AnnieNonymous Says:

                I’ve never claimed that sex should be completely out of the picture. I don’t even have hard-and-fast rules for when I’m up for it. I say two or three weeks as a generalization because that tends to be the time frame when you feel comfortable having someone new in your own home (if the person wasn’t already in your friend group before you started dating). If my responses ever seem a bit extreme on the no-sex front, it’s because there’s a group of guys who come here and talk about how they only ever want sex or they’ll ditch the girl. These guys aren’t interested in building genuine relationships. They come here and spew about sex because they think they’re “educating” women.

                I’ll dispel a myth that seemed to sneak in with the undercurrent of your post: most women won’t keep guys around and go on lame dates with them if they’re not interested in dating or sleeping with them. They’re just as interested in finding someone who’s sexually and romantically compatible as men are. These women who string guys along “while they make up their minds” don’t exist in the numbers that the men here seem to think they do. Either that, or they need to figure out why they’re attracting the lowest tier of women. Quality women know they have options, and they won’t keep dating men they don’t actually like. Men who make a thing of wanting sex early on are going to attract women who play off that. Be honest and go with the flow. A good woman is worth waiting an extra week or even month to see naked.

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                • HammersAndNails Says:

                  which guys, specifically, are you even arguing with? I think that’s perfectly reasonable. I don’t see anyone on any “side” arguing that two-three weeks isnt reasonable.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

                  • Marie Says:

                    I have to agree with Annie on this one. You are not one of them, but there are quite a few guys on this site that say often that if a girl doesn’t put out after 2 or 3 dates, they’ll lose interest and ditch her. They also try to make it sound like that’s how most guys think. That’s just not true, at least in my experience from both dating and hanging out with my guy friends.

                    Now, to be fair, it could be an age thing. I think it might just be a different world for people in their 20s and early 30s than it is for those in their 40s and 50s. It isn’t rare at all that a guy who is dating 20 somethings will wait, even more than a month, for sex with a woman he’s actually interested in.

                    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

                • D. Says:

                  Annie,

                  2-3 weeks isn’t an unreasonable time to wait for sex, as long as there’s interest being conveyed otherwise. It’s less about the specific amount of time (although that factors in, eventually) and more about the woman’s behavior when you’re together.

                  Personally, I’ve known plenty of women who have at one point or another strung a guy along while “making up their minds” or telling themselves they’re “giving him a chance.” It’s not a conscious “I’m using him for dinners” thing. More like they like the attention, but just aren’t excited about the guy. Or they like him well enough but are waiting for that spark or whatever to kick in. Or they’re trying to date against their usual “type” and he’s just not doing it for them, but they’re really trying to “make” it happen. However, in retrospect, they all admitted that they really just weren’t into the guy, and were basically just ignoring that notion for whatever reason. These aren’t bad women, ether. They didn’t make a habit of this; usually it was one or two guys that they’d done this with, often after a breakup with someone else. And really, it just amounts to ignoring that voice in the back of your head that says “You know you aren’t into this guy. Just call it off already.”

                  Moxie has addressed this phenomenon before, too. There was a guy who wrote in a few weeks ago talking about how he would drive an hour or so to go on dates with this woman (I think he lived in L.A. or something), and how they had a great time together, but after a month, still no sex and she’d just give him a quick kiss goodnight and send him on his way, then otherwise ignore him. Or something along those lines. What was the general diagnosis? She’s not that into you, dude. Move on. The guy did, although he left a nasty message telling her off or something, as I recall, which seemed a bit over the top.

                  But let’s suppose she WAS into him. Let’s suppose you’re right that there are a lot of women who ARE into guys, but the guys end up saying “Screw this” and moving on. I think what this suggests is that there’s a disconnect between what some women think “showing interest” is, and how guys read their behavior. Much of this depends on the individuals, but in a general sense, I do think that there are SOME women who have the attitude that “I don’t get it. I didn’t turn him down on dates. What more did he want,” as if showing up in and of itself conveys actual interest. This then turns to “Whatever. He just wanted sex,” while the guy is saying “Whatever. She just wasn’t into me.”

                  My point here is that showing interest is a two-way street, and it takes more than simply agreeing to go out with a guy. That doesn’t necessarily mean she’s gotta hop in the sack with him by XYZ date, but it does mean she’s got to show interest somehow. There are plenty of ways to do this other than sex, and a guy who genuinely wants a relationship with the girl will — up to a point — wait for sex IF he’s getting the sense that she’s interested based on other feedback. But I tend to think that women feel as if guys will keep coming around when all the women are doing is passively continuing to accept his attention. That’s not enough, and even a patient, relationship-minded guy will eventually get fed up and move on if that’s all he’s getting.

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              • coptic777 Says:

                This is true as well. I just stopped talking to a 39 yr old woman w/ issues when she flat out told me she came on that 2nd date w/ me to the beach & out to dinner “not feeling like going on a date” then said she wanted to “think about us” after all the sex talk & flirting over the phone. She also complained about men not showing chilvary etc. Suprise it did not work for me when I tried to show it but what else is new? Anyways when she text me the next day I did not respond.

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                • Joey Giraud Says:

                  You mean “I did not respond, like a frightened little pussy.”

                  A man would talk to her. At least have the courage to tell her “go away.”

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                • Eliza Says:

                  coptic: You picked an odd woman. If a woman is going to be sexual over the phone–then she should expect a man to be just as “sexually suggestive” when they later meet in person. But if a woman doesn’t give off that vibe, and is a little more reserved…she has every right — and it’s her perogative not to get sexual with someone–on the 2nd, 3rd or dates that follow. Secondly, if someone flat out stated to my face “not feeling like going on a date” – while we were out. I would right there and then – take care…I am out of here – have better things to do.
                  Why do you men continuous – stay in such absurd situations – with these women?
                  You reap what you sow. Why go out with these types of women?

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                  • coptic777 Says:

                    You NO idea what you are talking about. Your assumptions are incorrect. Do you really think I would be a simp & wait around after someone told me that? Of coarse not! It was at the end of the date cupcake. “You reap what you sow” WTF are you talking about? I can already see the signs of a women on some form of meds. With 1 in 4 women talking some sort of mood stabilizing drugs it’s not hard to guess.

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        • The D-man Says:

          Too funny. Whether he waits for sex says nothing about his character. Further, this is the only time this will ever be an issue, since once you start you presumably will continue. You’re judging a guy on this one issue, within 3-4 dates, before you know anything else about what’s he actually like in a relationship.

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          • AnnieNonymous Says:

            I think that pushing for sex (and threatening to bail if it’s not happening yet even though he knows it eventually will) when he knows I’m not ready yet says a whole lot about his character. Why would I have sex with someone who, by your own admission, hasn’t had enough time to show me much about what he’s like in a relationship? Just because he wants to? What about what I want? Doing things my way hasn’t failed me. You’re free to spend your two or three weeks looking for different girls to have one-night stands with instead of investing that time in one girl who will eventually have sex with you every day.

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            • Joey Giraud Says:

              That’s the way it was in the 80’s, and it was pretty liberal then. It’s not like you’re waiting because you’re a prude or repressed or anything, it’s because sex is not just about fun, love is a bit more serious then that.

              Smart. Much more likely to get a good guy.

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              • Matt Says:

                “That’s the way it was in the 80′s, and it was pretty liberal then.”

                … Do you mean the NINETEEN 80’s? Because no, it was certainly not all that liberal.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

                • Joey Giraud Says:

                  What I meant was, her attitude was a liberal one in the 1980s.

                  There was plenty of casual sex then of course, but hookup culture had not yet arrived.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

              • AnnieNonymous Says:

                Yeah, it hasn’t failed me yet. The guys who are arguing with me don’t really want relationships anyway, so I don’t understand why they’re pretending that we’re working toward the same goal.

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                • Max Says:

                  That’s smugly dismissive and insulting to many of the men here.

                  You’re participating in an online dating site so one presumes you are still single. Proof positive that you have not been successful at finding the relationship you are looking for. Your method is proven to fail.

                  Realize like all of us still single that there’s a REASON and that you have to change. Everyone reading this site is doing so because we are looking to learn something, but being human we are resistant to change.

                  The men on this site aren’t taking their time to share their perspective with you out of some sort of malicious intent. They are not silly enough to think that by doing so somehow they are going to get sex faster themselves.

                  The men you deride are sharing their valuable time to try, TRY, to break through the barrier separating our sexes and share honest perspective on how we approach dating. So that we can all learn from each other and perhaps have more success at finding the romantic relationships we seek.

                  “My way or the highway” isn’t an attractive dating attitude for either sex.

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            • Eliza Says:

              Thank you Annie! well said. And any woman that does respect herself and doesn’t feel she has to open her legs – just to keep a man interested, will move at her pace. And a guy that is genuinely interested and is intelligent enough to comprehend that simple concept – will wait a reasonable time. How each person defines that time, is based on their own comfort level. But yes, a man that immediately pushes for sex, is viewed as someone looking to use you. Whether it’s the case or not. It should be mutual, otherwise it’s not enjoyable. It’s all based on what a man ultimately wants. If all you guys do want is sex in the first week or two – why not just hire a prostitute? Too expensive? I guess you are looking to “date” as a pretense to not cover the cost of a prostitute. And yes, the men that are arguing with AnniNon – do not want “relationships” – they want sexual relations, but nothing more. So why pretend? No need to.

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              • LostSailor Says:

                Oh, geez, Eliza. Not with the prostitutes again…

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                • Eliza Says:

                  LOL! Just sayin. Why bother with all the silly courting, or initial date-planning and motions – if all a man wants is to get in, get off and get out. The easiest course of action – is the oldest profession in the world. Otherwise, he will be spinning his wheels, trying to get something from women who may not be ready as soon as he is. I happen to agree with AnniNonymous – it’s a woman’s perogative. If a man bails – after the 2, 3 or even 6th date–he’s obviously all about himself…and could care less about the woman being in her comfort zone. No?

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                  • HammersAndNails Says:

                    Stop the bullshit. If a man doesn’t want to do everything 100% your way he’s “all about himself”? How about meeting him in the middle princess.

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                  • LostSailor Says:

                    If a man bails – after the 2, 3 or even 6th date–he’s obviously all about himself

                    Or maybe he just thinks you’re just not worth the effort, making him jump through hoops before you’ll bestow the grace of your affections and sanctified body. You want to make it all about you and ignore him.

                    From below: I say – just get a prostitute, fellas! Leave the good women alone already.

                    You’re not a “good” woman. You’re making assumptions and repeatedly urging men to engage in illegal activity. You assume that a man who want sex and considers it a part of a healthy relationship and who isn’t going to necessarily wait around for you to deign to sleep with him must be some sort of pervert who only wants sex.

                    You’re right that it’s your prerogative. But it’s also his prerogative to bail if your qualities aren’t enough to wait endlessly for your other “charms.”

                    But please, leave off the prostitute recommendations. Because that implies that a man dating you and who naturally wants sex should put you lower in his estimation than a prostitute…

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        • coptic777 Says:

          Annie I actually agree with you on this one. Two weeks? I will even wait a little longer personally if she stimulates my mind (I like smart women “nerds” as well they just need to wear more dresses) so yea I am w/ you on this. I mean two weeks & a guy can not wait even that long? Sometimes I do agree w/ the women simply because facts are facts plus her point was logical.

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          • Eliza Says:

            Well Coptic – if within that 2 week time-frame you only see a woman twice, how well, do you really know her. Which is why “time” is not merely defined by days that go by – but by how well do you know someone, how much time have you spent, what did you discuss. If 2 people truly mesh, and there is an undeniable physical connection as well as great bond with conversation and common interest and repour – 2 weeks is nothing… again, it’s nothing for a guy that really enjoys a particular woman’s company. But it’s a lifetime for a man that is looking to merely get horizontal, and that it’s. And yes, you have that right–2 dates – and some men don’t want to spend more time with a woman if they are not getting physical pleasure. I say – just get a prostitute, fellas! Leave the good women alone already.

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            • coptic777 Says:

              And your point is? You are just ranting. I was agreeing w/ her & here you come trying to make some sort of conflict out of it just to disagree. The lack of logic in that is not surprising.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5

              • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

                Oh my God. Please. All of you. Stop commenting. This is ridiculous. There are other posts. Comment on those. Nobody cares about this conversation, and you’ve completely clogged up what was an otherwise interesting thread. Stop.

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  19. NB Says:

    A few corrections…I did, in fact, sleep with the majority of the 20% of compatible men. I just never heard from them again, hence my conclusion that they only wanted one night stands. This is probably because the oldest person I’ve dated is 40. I do, in fact, find 45-40 yo men attractive, there is no “hesitation” about dating them, at all. I posed the question because I’m not sure how men view women their own age, and I want to manage my expectations.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

    • LostSailor Says:

      As Moxie and a lot of us have said, well, yes, men generally will usually look for younger women. If men in their mid-30s are interested in dating you then, yeah, they’re probably just looking for sex and not a relationship. Why you never heard from them again after one time, I can’t say. But as I indicated above, if you are looking for something more long-lasting, you should probably focus on men older than you rather than younger. If you can still pull younger men just for frisky times, that’s all well and good, but it will inevitably draw your focus away from finding a relationship, if that’s really your goal.

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    • Kurt Says:

      So you slept with a lot of men you met on a dating website? The men might assume that you do this with a lot of men and won’t want a relationship because they assume you are promiscuous.

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      • mindstar Says:

        Well unless the OP is keeping a scorecard and immediately shares it with the men she dates they have no way of knowing how many lovers she has had. The number of past lovers a person has had is really their personal business.

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        • coptic777 Says:

          Mindstar are you projecting? & yes men do care if you have had 50 men before them especially when you require chivalry & want a man to wait for sex when 45 out of the 50 bad boys had you w/ in 48hrs of shaking your hand.

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    • meh Says:

      “I’m not sure how men view women their own age, and I want to manage my expectations.”

      i’m 40 & there is no way in hell i’d date a 40 year old woman.

      women my own age are the same women who rejected me when i was trying to start a family in my 20s & 30s. instead they chose to date older men but instead of marrying those men, they thought they would always have their pick of men and didn’t marry anybody.

      sorry ladies. you had your chance. you should have married someone a long time ago when you were in your prime.

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      • Eliza Says:

        ewww…bitter are we?! lol…I have one word for you “therapy”, my friend, Therapy.

        An attitude and approach like that only gets you one place – and fast – with certainty:
        The Nursing Home…grey, old and alone.

        Let it go….let it go.

        Not ALL women are the same.

        The worse thing to do to yourself is to categorize MEN or WOMEN.

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        • meh Says:

          i am bitter. i don’t deny it.

          as soon as people accept reality the better they will be able to deal with it. i know i will never marry. but that attitude has only gotten me more sex than before, which is what i have to settle for now.

          so you can say “ewww” & try to insult me but you should consider my words & attitude the next time you date a man my age. it will benefit you in the long run to know the harsh truth of how men really think.

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          • Eliza Says:

            The hard truth, meh – is that women RUN – and very fast – and women of ANY age – from as you put so eloquently yourself – a “Bitter” individual. Let go of your past…especially if it’s negative…and move on. The sooner you are able to be more positive and never say “never”…the sooner you will exude a more positive vibe – and that’s way more attractive to ANY woman, that to be around someone so enraged over his past…and over people he is no longer in touch with anyway.

            That will benefit YOU – in the long run.

            Remember, if you can’t change people around you – change THE people that surround you.

            And from other posts – it’s NOT how other men think…Thankfully!

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            • meh Says:

              thanks for the advice, i will be sure to tell that to my girlfriend

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

              • HammersAndNails Says:

                Woah. watch out everyone. This guy has a girlfriend.

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 6

        • LostSailor Says:

          Not ALL women are the same.

          But enough of them are…

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      • Treifalicious Says:

        How is that fair to a woman who might not have known you when you were 25 or 30 and wanted to start a family? If a specific woman who rejected you back then came calling I might understand, but it is unfair and nonsensical to reject a random 40 year old woman who might be perfectly attractive, open minded and ready to fall in love with you (not to mention have some fertility left) just because Susie the cheerleader or Layla the aspiring model wouldn’t give you any play when you were 17 or 25. This attitude will just keep you single longer.

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        • Eliza Says:

          Thanks Treif – Meh – is still enraged over the Susie cheerleaders and Layla’s in his past! LOL.

          So comical…sad, but funny in a way.

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        • coptic777 Says:

          The delusion continues. The VAST majority of men do not want babies w/ 40 yr old women no matter how much you tell each other otherwise. Places that help couples w/ fertility issues wont even accept a womans eggs for freezing past 37. It’s time you women stop denying this biological fact that when your even approaching 40 your dreams of children are dim. Couple that w/ a legal system that favors women for alimony/child support & the ‘I don’t need a man” attitude. Good luck ladies ;)

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    • coptic777 Says:

      “I did, in fact, sleep with the majority of the 20% of compatible men. I just never heard from them again,” It’s funny that drivenmenuts chick was just accusing me of ranting on another thread about me not knowing what I was talking about & BAM! What do you have? A woman in her 40’s talking about she only chased the top 20% of men (remember Okcupid’s study said the vast majority of women found 80% of men to be losers) which means she rode the carousel of Alphas & now ready to settle down. I am 36 yrs old & tried dating women like for more than just sex. I always have dated older women. When I was 19 I dated a 30 yr old for almost 6 months plus my friends were always older. Back then I was just having fun & as I got older I wanted them for more. I can have a conversation that is amazing w/ an older woman way more than a 25 yr old (mind stimulation is very important to me it helps me bond more during sex). These days I find them jaded, unrealistic (still chasing the top looking guys w/ a six pack for dating even the overweight ones) & often taking some sort of medication for an emotional/mental imbalance. I gave up.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        I stand by my criticism, honey. PS you have a rare eye for detail.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

        • coptic777 Says:

          And your criticism was incorrect again I am using at least one source to back up my claims which I made on a previous thread & about 3 days later here we have a 40 yr old plus woman who rode the alphas & is now talking men who will not date women her age etc. Admitting when you are wrong is a sign of a mature person. Checkmate.

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      • Joey Giraud Says:

        And how old are you now? You write like a fourteen year old.

        A regular Heartiste disciple, right down to the snotty attitude.

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  20. Kurt Says:

    This really is good advice and is very true. The only men who really want women who are over 40s for a serious relationship are the men who think that they cannot get a younger woman who will be faithful to them. I know that a lot of women think that this is unfair or that men are just being superficial, but the fact is that many of the men who are in their 40s now have absolutely no incentive to settle for a 40-year-old woman if they can get a younger woman who is more attractive – the mere fact that she is younger automatically makes her more attractive in many ways.

    A lot of men really don’t want to wait until 40 to get married, but they are forced to do so because when they were younger, the attractive women their age didn’t want them. However, when they got a little older, the younger women found them far more attractive than did the ones their own age. Dating really is much easier for a woman in her 20s than it is for most men.

    I have also found that younger women tend to be much nicer and far less bitter or neurotic than do the older ones, but this is just based on my own personal experiences.

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  21. Nasher Says:

    I’ve been very active on several dating sites (Match, OKC, POF) for over 5 months now. From what I see the question should be “Do women consider men in their forties relationship material?” .. I am constantly seeing women profiles who are mid to late forties seeking guys in their thirties. I’m in the Houston area, 47, 6-2, athletic/toned, good looking, no kids, financially successful and specifically state I want a LTR but rarely gain interest from women in their forties; the majority of (unsoliciated) emails I get are from women in their fifties gushing over me, so I’m left with the impression that it’s really women who want younger things while guys my age are more realistic. I’m becoming convinced that most women have seriously overpriced themselves (completed with a rap sheet of 100+ must-haves) and think they have far more market value than they do (i.e. – showing a muffin top in all your pics and then calling yourself ‘Athletic/Toned’ is the biggest offense, followed closely by posting pics that are clearly 2/4/6 yrs old). Or maybe these women just want flings/ego validations, not relationships. Sure seems that way. Clearly, what dating ‘experts’ write about 40-something women does not at all match what I experience.

    I figure the fifty-somethings who email me long glowing messages were like the forty-somethings of today who a decade ago passed up good men in their forties thinking “I can do better”. Well they didn’t but now it’s too late.

    Now if only I could figure out how to profit on the massive wave of lonely and bitter cat hoarders of today and beyond … hmm, seems ‘male escort’ may be the way :)

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    • HammersAndNails Says:

      90% of unsolicited emails are going to be women below your league. The status quo is that you pursue.

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    • Eliza Says:

      Nasher: Here’s reality – the reason some, and I repeat, SOME women who for younger men – and not men in their 40’s – IS because most, not all, but MOST men who are in their 40’s and usually divorced – hence, they are single – again…are ALSO extremely bitter – from their divorces…and from the financial implication of these divorces…and how it has impacted their lives in every aspect. They are not trusting – anymore, and they also have many other priorities – kids, financial woes, and just a negative view of womem in general – and view ALL women as being out for their wallet. It’s unfortunate. But true. And just like men prefer to surround themselves with younger, prettier and carefree beings who are more uplifting and positive about the oppositie gender – WELL guess what? Women prefer that type of company too! Surprise surprise. Us women, love the refreshing approach of younger men, who are not cynical and judgmental of the opposite gender. A great positive energy and vibe is always the more appealing path to take – now isn’t it?

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      • Nasher Says:

        Eliza – your “reality” scenario is of limited application and certainly not the norm but is a popularly used generalization derived from shallow analysis (and from many ladies-only echo chamber bitch sessions). Keep in mind that about 30% of 40-something men have never been married (for women, it’s slightly lower). If we accept a 50% divorce rate, that leaves at most about 30% of 40-something men that MAY be bitter about their divorce. The negative view of women some men might have can originate from many sources other than getting fleeced thru a divorce proceeding because his wife wasn’t ‘happy’ (divorce is far too easy these days [women initiate approx. 80% of them] and has resulted in the destruction of the core family unit, the prime source of social ills we see today. You may send a thank you letter to the National Feminist Organization for that one).

        The way you phrased your response clearly validates one of my original observations: that so many women (in the 40-50 range where I hunt) seem to just want flings/ego validations, not relationships. And what you fail to recognize is that while these woman are free to pursue younger men, the fact is that those younger men generally dont want the older women except for one thing, and it’s not a LTR/marriage with kids. However, this is not an impedement if the woman doesn’t want the LTR either, of which you seem to be advocating. The real fact is: Cycling thru younger men just results in ill feelings and lost opportunities; the same as for men who do it with younger women.

        In summary, I do realize that my pursuit of a meaningful LTR with a woman of near the same age greatly limits my opportunities with American women. But I am also observing the rapidly growing shift among men to hunt within other cultures that do not harbor such inaccurate generalizations of men and have not yet been poisioned by radial, latent man-hating feminism.

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    • Eliza Says:

      ok Nasher – then just change your age! – viola – you will get these so-called women in their 40’s.
      I am telling you – women figure men in their 40’s – are suffering socially, physically and emotionally and mostly fiscally – from their divorces. And that in turn, makes a man grow bitter…hard to be around that type of man. And just like men like to be around very fit women–well, women prefer to be around very fit men. And guys in their 30’s are “usually” more fit.

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      • Nasher Says:

        Eliza – you seem to be firmly stuck on the “bitter man” narrative. If you had read my other comments on this article, you would realize I (and most other men) don’t fit this scenario. And your generalization of younger=fitter is also so far off base, it’s hardly worth commenting on. Might I remind you that something like 60% of Americans are overweight or obese and this figure spans ALL age groups and both genders. I would also remind you of my original observation that it appears to me that only women over 50 (the ones I get all the glowing, “you’re awesome!” emails from) seem to have finally ‘normalized’ their expectations and realized the mistakes of their 30’s and 40’s but unfortunately no longer have the market value to rectify them.

        Actually, you are making me think more and more about going into the male escort biz. I think guys like me (who aren’t allergic to cats) would make a killing :)

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  22. Mark Says:

    Dating can be tough. Then again, it has been like that through the ages. The twist of the online aspect (the OP uses OKCupid) is that is compresses all those possibilities into a single format.

    What the OP found was a simple reality check. Her perceived attractiveness (not just physical) to others vs her perceived qualities that she can offer others.

    Moxie does provide a fair take on this example. She also has the benefit of being a relative neutral third party who has seen and dealt with many similar situations of others.

    It might be prudent to take to heart what she has written. You may or may not totally agree or even take a different tact, but don’t discount it either.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

  23. S Says:

    As a single, 43 year old woman, I find so much of this disturbing.

    First off, the OP is not based in reality. She is not going to find a 30’s man that has never been married, doesn’t place a high emphasis on sex and wants a relationship with an older woman. I guess you can never say never but the chances are extremely unlikely.

    Now to the comments – I find it funny how many of the men that comment have no problem saying that if they don’t get sex right away, they will bail and move on to someone else. Really? So the single men in their 40s find it that easy to get sex, they won’t even be bothered to date for a few weeks? You guys must be really hot older men to have it that easy. Come on…lets be honest here. If you’re reading and commenting on this blog, you are not beating the woman off with a stick. Just as the woman, are not dodging the hoards of men. The people that are that in demand are not evening thinking about dating – it just happens for them.

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    • Nasher Says:

      The reality is that men my age (47) who are attractive and fit don’t have a big problem getting just pure sex when we really want it. And yes, there is a fair share of women who give it up after a few dates (and on ocassion I have oblidged them). I also have two FWB’s (36 and 41) who I ‘catch up’ with on occassion and we all have an understanding that it’s for fun only (well, maybe one wants more, but she’s wishy-washy about it. Not sure). When I actually do meet a woman my age who is my equal and actually wants a LTR, I will leave the Romper Room and devote to her, but until then can you blame me? Hell, women do it too. The way I see it: guys don’t make the ‘rules’ (women do; they are the gatekeepers), we just have to live by the rules. Sure, I’m having fun but I really do want more (serious LTR).

      BTW, reading and commenting on this blog is in no way related to the amount sex we get (I’m living breathing example of this) so stop with the generalizations (or maybe you are just projecting who you are onto others?). What I see is a big mis-match between realities and expectations among women (American women in particular). And people ‘in demand’ are rarely attracted to those who ‘demand’ them.

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    • HammersAndNails Says:

      The argument that finding a well written dating advice column with interesting topics a fun read is a sign of a sad dating life is absurd.

      Is everyone who watches the biggest loser fat? Is everyone who watches say yes to the dress in the market for a wedding dress? Is everyone who watches dancing with the stars learning to dance?

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    • Kurt Says:

      I am sure that there are many men in their 40s who aren’t getting regular sex, but you probably wouldn’t want those guys anyway.

      I would definitely be willing to wait a few weeks or maybe even a little longer if I really liked the girl and wasn’t paying for everything. The problem arises when the woman doesn’t want to pay for anything yet doesn’t want to have sex or at least heavily make out – men get taken advantage by women doing this when the men are younger and inexperienced with dating and quickly learn their lesson. A lot of women will date guys they don’t really like and will completely play the field and no man wants to be the chump who is paying for dates for a woman who leaves after the dates and hooks up with some other guy.

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    • ABC Says:

      QUOTE: ” Come on…lets be honest here. If you’re reading and commenting on this blog, you are not beating the woman off with a stick.”

      Men don’t want women to know how difficult it is for them to get laid because this gives women a certain amount of power over men.

      It’s what you see in a bazaar.

      A man (the buyer) tries to get the woman (the seller) to lower her price by making her think that what she has for sale isn’t anything special. He saw some nicer ones over there and can walk over there now and pick one up and take it home. They’re cheaper too.

      What the man (the buyer) conceals his intense interest because once the seller realizes the true level of interest she will hold out for the higher price.

      Ladies, men do not find it that easy to get laid. So, don’t sell at a low price.

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  24. Horace Says:

    “Do Men Consider Women In Their 40′s Relationship Material?”

    Yes. Men in their 50s do. Nah, that’s a joke. Okay, it’s a bad one. LOL. But it’s one of those dumb questions that you can only answer with “It depends,” so it deserves a bad joke. It’s the same as asking:

    “Do Men Consider Any Women Relationship Material?”

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  25. NB Says:

    To S-
    I never stated that a) i’m looking for someone who has never been married or b) who doesn’t place a high emphasis on sex. In fact, I prefer a high emphasis on sex. Nor did i say that I’d only consider or am only interested in men in their 30’s. i simply wanted to know what age range I should focus on.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  26. Horace Says:

    This is tangential, but OKCupid is a real shit show. I don’t know why anyone over 30 would use it. You get what you pay for, or more specifically, what other people pay for. A site on which everyone pays is more likely to have more people who are more serious than a site where no one pays, and thus everyone is cheap.

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    • Eliza Says:

      Horace – WRONG. Match.com has the same faces/profiles AS OKC. Go ahead – pay and see for yourself. Want a dating service that is more selective with so-called “seriously-seeking daters”? Try a matchmaker or matchmaking service–but be willing and able to shell out a few thousand dollars for that level of “seriousness”.

      People are not “cheap” – and that’s not the reason they go on OKC. The reason is – because they already know the same nonsense is displayed there as on Match.com, or POF. Same time-wasting nonsense. Which is why it’s easier to just go out, mingle, chat with everyone, be social and hopefully–eventually meet someone nice. You need to go out. not sit behind some monitor.

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  27. S Says:

    NB – I apologize. It was not you that said that. It was Deborah. Many of the comments ended up being directed at her. My mistake. I got a little off track.

    Although no one agreed with me, I still find it hard to believe that there all these single men in their 40’s that have a bevy of woman willing to have sex anytime they want. By no means am I insinuting that they aren’t dating or having sex but I don’t think its as easy to come by as they are making it seem.

    I’d also like to say that in way was insulting the blog. I think its very helpful, which is the point of it and thus why I would assume that people that DON”T need or want help in the dating area, wouldn’t be reading it.

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    • Nasher Says:

      S – I’m beginning to suspect you never really mastered reading comprehension skills (your last post also reveals some lack of writing skills as well). Your shallow analysis and subsequent conclusion about “all these single men in their 40′s that have a bevy of woman willing to have sex anytime they want” resides in your mind only. Noone here said that except you.

      Have you considered that noone agreed with your followups because they actually read and understood the posts they are commenting on instead of, like you, re-writing what others have said?? Kinda makes me wonder if what I wrote in my online profiles is just mentally re-written by women reading them. Not sure how often this happens, but it sure would explain alot regarding other women’s behaviour that I have seen in the online dating world.

      And if any single person here thinks they don’t need or want help in the dating arena, they are being very foolish. Doing the same things over and over or living in an ‘echo chamber’ where everyone tells you how awesome and special you are does you little good in self-evaluations or in learning and applying new approaches and techniques in the dating game (and yes it is clearly a game). In the dating arena, I’m pretty happy about my results. I’m gregarious and funny and people like to hang/party with me. I always have fun. It’s in the relationship area that I freely admit needing help understanding why women do the foolish things they do (and therefore chase away the very type of men they claim to desire and cant find). However, for both arenas I constantly seek guidance wherever I can find it. I’m not bashful about saying “Need some help here, please”.

      I suggest you read posts several times over before responding to them.

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    • LostSailor Says:

      I still find it hard to believe that there all these single men in their 40′s that have a bevy of woman willing to have sex anytime they want…I don’t think its as easy to come by as they are making it seem.

      I’m actually a number of years older than Nahser, but over the last couple of years have crafted a similar situation. I have a couple of FWBs (one is only in town once a month or so, the other a little more frequently) with whom it kind of waxes and wanes, sometimes I see them more, sometimes less. And I also date. But no one said it was particularly easy. I go through the usual number of one-date wonders, but the more I’ve dated over the last several years, the better I’ve gotten about filtering out people who are just going to waste my time, and filtering in women in whom I’m interested and, more important, are interested in me. That doesn’t always result in a sexual relationship, but my slugging percentage has been steadily getting better. All in all, I’m pretty content with where I am dating-wise at the moment.

      I comment here because 1) I’ve been doing it for a while and 2) I think I have something to contribute (yeah, I know, there are some who might disagree).

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      • Renaissance Says:

        LostSailor, one of the reasons I wait with sex is that I definitely want to make sure that the man I date is not having sex with any other women!!! Now you can never be sure but I guess that by taking my time to get to know a guy, he will sooner or later also let shine through how he deals with his sexuality. If a man always has to have some woman/women for sex, whether it be a FWB or a prostitute, he is not the man for me. I prefer a man who can actually survive some time without sex with another person.

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  28. Z-gal Says:

    My friend Peggy (age 50) is about to marry her boyfriend (age 41) in July.
    My gal pal (51) just celebrating 1st aniversary with her boyfriend (50). And planning marriage.
    So the rule is “there are NO rules !”

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    • coptic777 Says:

      How much money does Peggy make vs her 41 yr old boyfriend? & please be honest…

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      • Z-gal Says:

        Pg is a legal secretary. Her boyfriend is a mechanic for the LA Police Department. Pg is moving to LA to be with him. She hopes that she will find a job there.

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    • mindstar Says:

      Or Z-gal you’re just focusing on the exceptions to the rule and think that can be universally applied.

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      • Z-gal Says:

        I am just advising about my circle. Peg (50 yo) is a good friend. E (the 50 y.o. male with 51 yo female) is one of my best friends. And K (51 y.o female with 50 yo male) also a long time friend. I wasn’t looking for exceptions. This is the fabric of my life. I just want to point out that there are A LOT of exceptions. That is, exceptions are NOT that exceptional.

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    • Eliza Says:

      Good for Peggy – and yes, when it comes to dating – and this inexplicable thing we call “Chemistry” – there are absolutely no rules.

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  29. Z-gal Says:

    And the other 51 y.o gal pal (Sh) who just celebrated 1st aniversary with her boyfriend (50) (E), both live in Manhattan. They were making about the same amount, until she lost her job a couple of months ago. He (E) is now helping her out.

    And I have a third example: my galpal K is 51 and has been dating a 50 year old guy. K has never been married. Her boyfriend is divorced with 2 adults kids. He has his own business (restaurants). She works in auditing at a school. I don’t know how much each makes. They have been dating seriously about 6 months.
    .
    So the rule is “there are NO rules !”

    in the food starting da

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  30. Treifalicious Says:

    I would argue that also 50 year old men have *finally* realized that 1 year does not an age difference make, though I guess conventional wisdom would have it that they would naturally want to be with 35 year olds.

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    • Eliza Says:

      Treif: face it – we ALL prefer to be with someone younger – both men and women alike. But the bottom line is – a man that is 50 year old can have all the preferences he desires–if he is completely out of shape, no energy – and simply not attractive in other ways – a woman that is in her mid-30’s who looks appropriate, age wise will want NOTHING to do with him. Hey – even a woman that is in her 40’s that looks very well put together, who exercises won’t look his way twice. I know a man that just turned 50 – he claimed he looked like he was in his 30’s. Guess what – NOT! He looked his age. Don’t tell people you look younger–let OTHERS decide that on their own. Most people who claim they look younger – DO NOT. Don’t care what your family and friends are telling you–they love you–hence the skewed comments.

      What you want – isn’t necessarily what you will get. Sure – you can look at the menu all you want.
      The same goes for women in their 40’s – wanting younger men.

      Hey – who wouldn’t. I see the difference in men of all ages. At the gym – is the very best place to see this – in both genders. There is a vast difference in men in their 20’s – bodywise – and men in their 40’s – forget 50’s.

      You can’t fight the hands of time.

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  31. Treifalicious Says:

    Hey, Eliza, I’m not disagreeing with you at all. Lord knows I go to the gym regularly and I see it all the time. Moreover, I went to parties with people in their 30s and 40s when I was in my late 20s and early 30s and saw how the women in their 40s usually were in better shape and condition than the men in their 40s, yet the 40s men ignored them and went after me, so when I speak of older men I am speaking from not only contemporary experience but experience with late 30s and 40-something men when I was the age they were chasing after. I thought, “Why don’t they talk to women their own age who may be more willing to put up with their grey (if they even have any) hair and wrinkles than I?”

    Anyway, what I was trying to say in response to Z-gal is that she cites all these 50 year old men dating 51 year old women as men who are – OMG – dating older women. 1 year is not an “age difference” once you’re 30 let alone 50. That’s all I was saying. Anyone who tells you differently and is over, say, 25, is an idiot. I know a guy who was 33 and wouldn’t date a specific 35 year old woman even though he was crushing hard on her. Ridiculous. He ended up dating and marrying a 28 year old who turned out to be crazy. The marriage was over in a Kardashian-esque 72 days. Literally. Maybe the 35 year old he wouldn’t ask out because she was “too old” would have been a better bet for a relationship and stable marriage. I figure the 50 year olds Z-gal was talking about have finally gotten over this stupidity.

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  32. NewYorker Says:

    I met my husband the day after his 25th birthday. I was 38. I thought he was older, he thought I was younger. When we realized it was becoming more than a one night stand, we had the age discussion. I gave my blessing for him to leave, understanding that it could present insurmountable challenges for him on many levels. He chose to stay. I never imagined we’d get married. We’re an excellent match on every level. Very happily married. We’ve never looked back. No, I’m not worried he’ll leave me one day. And no, I’m not wealthy and supporting him. He works very hard and so do I.

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  33. Joanne Says:

    This article is untrue I’ve been internet dating for about 6 months and I’m 42 and I’ve had lots of interest from men my age, by my age I mean a few years either way. Not all men are shallow idiots and they accept that a women within their age range is a reasonable appropriate demand (they aren’t all living in a dreamworld where they expect a partner 5 to 10 years younger mostly that isn’t going to happen for the fellas, they’re not all amazing catches they’re as old and ugly as their counterparts). Why should they expect a woman 10 years younger to want a slightly worn out older guy. Sometimes young women think older men are attractive as their age brings wisdom or other qualities they usually discover it’s untrue though as they get a bit older and will not be so impressed with the age gap as they age themselves particularly as their partner will die younger than them. Seen in with my friends and know it to be true.
    Get with the times folks we aren’t living in the dark ages people generally need to accept they are usually going to meet a partner their age a couple of years younger or older perhaps. Men need to accept that as much as women – don’t live in a dream world fellas Men who haven’t had children by their forties are very unlikely to be parents look at the statistics.

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  34. Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

    Penelope/Joanne…please don’t write multiple comments under different usernames. Pick one and stick to it.

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  35. Mary Smith Says:

    I have a friend who is 44 years old, not very attractive,think she looks younger but has wrinkles around her eyes that reveal her age, doesn’t have a hot body either, although she diets drastically to lose weight, neither is she financially self-sufficient but has very high expectations of what she wants in a guy. Last year she met two guys at the same time. One was a 35 year old unemployed guy, living with his parents with all sorts of high ambition of the future and was decent looking. The other man was in his early 50’s, married but wife had passed away from cancer, had a PhD from an ivy league in biochemistry, had a patent under his name, worked for a fortune 500 company as VP owned a house in the city. But he was dorky with thick glasses, no dress sense and bald with a bit of weight. My friend said he was a very nice man but she was not attracted to him at all and she is not that desperate to lower her level.I tried telling her that he seemed like a great guy for her to settle down with. Instead she chose to be in a relationship with the 35 year old. He proposed to her, set a date for her wedding and then backed out. He is now dating a 19 year old girl ( no jokes). The other person found himself a lovely lady in her mid 40’s. They recently got married and are now in Argentina on their honeymoon. ( my friend still her him as her facebook friend) My friend is heartbroken, angry, bitter and single. She recently told me she is very interested in a guy in his early 30s. Sigh!

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    • James Says:

      Your friend sounds like she thinks she’s Gods gift to men. I have met many women like your friend. They are usually plain looking and overweight, unemployed or underemployed, no direction in life except to live off their ex-husband’s support payment.
      However, because they receive more attention than they have ever received in their lives using online dating they think they have high standards. Yet the worse they are treated the more they love it.
      Your friend deserved what she got because she chose looks over quality. Tell her to just give it up, get a cat and accept the fact that she’s a mess.

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  36. Emma Says:

    There are a lot of heartless, ageist, unkind people on here. Women over 40 are not freaks. They have feelings. Actually they feel the same way now that they did when they were 30 with a bit more maturity.
    We are in an in-between era. The sexual revolution is over but people in their forties were raised by all different kinds of parents with diverse social norms around dating, women’s roles etc.
    That it is the norm socially that men have more choices doesn’t make the older woman who seeks a man her age a bad person, a freak or presumptuous. It just means she has a libido. Thats okay too, and as a result of the sexual revolution she can look for said men her own age or even younger.
    There are no hard, fast rules on this. It’s up to the two people who meet.
    Some guys like older women for whatever reason. Yes, it happens less often than the other way around. Bt beating up on someone and telling her she can’t have hope to find someone her own age is mean and small minded. I think it is rooted in male fear of the FACT that younger women are less dependent on men for security and thus don’t have to go with older men. This may not be the norm but it is trending. Watch out guys. In another generation the 20’s to 30’s somethings won’t want you when you are 40…. Deal.

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  37. utocalec Says:

    “There are a lot of heartless, ageist, unkind people on here. Women over 40 are not freaks. They have feelings. Actually they feel the same way now that they did when they were 30 with a bit more maturity.”

    Thank you for the laughs!! — A single male (never married) in his late 30s.

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  38. Tim Says:

    I am 49 and prefer women in their 40’s but have found many want guys younger or unsure of what they want. What’s the deal? Many where I live are married.

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    • Timothy Horrigan Says:

      Every woman is unique of course but as a general rule single women in the 40s are highly resistant to dating men their own age or older. It’s not exactly fair, it goes against what the men’s own preferences are, but it’s a general rule anyway. If you are 49, you’re almost in your 50’s anyway. You probably need to concentrate on the older women. And actually you also might have better luck with the women in their mid-30s to early 40s than with the ones closer to your own age.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  39. Lynn Says:

    Reading through the comments – I am clearly a lucky lady. I met my current husband when he was 28 and I 38. We’ve been together 4 years now, and that is with my being divorced and with two children. He has no children, is tall, gorgeous and fantastic with my kids. He would love a child with me, but I am fairly certain that I am done with that phase as my eldest is 16. It is not a deal breaker though. If it happens, it happens.

    I don’t think there are any cut and dried rules to it all. Chemistry is where you find it – however, I would put less emphasis on age and looks, either yours or his, and simply be open to personalities first.

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  40. Leena Says:

    “’m going to blown your mind right now. Ready? I will bet any amount of money that Mr. Relationship was part of that 20%. Here’s why I know that: because most women haven’t a clue as to how to determine whether a man is just looking to laid. Unless these men came out and told you they just wanted a one night stand, you have no evidence to back up your theory. All you have is years and years of crappy advice from your girlfriends. Something you’ll need to understand about men and dating now is that they prefer sex to happen sooner than later. If it doesn’t, or there’s too much challenge presented, these guys won’t think twice about Fading on you and looking elsewhere. Because they can. They have options that you don’t. So while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb. I happen to think that the days of men judging women for having sex too soon are pretty much gone, save for the men here and there with the fragile egos.”

    Sorry but this entire paragraph is a crock. A big one.

    Men preferring sex sooner rather than later is hardly “new” – they have ALWAYS been this way, and they will always “fade” if you play hard to get for too long. With good reason – who needs someone “playing at” anything? I will never cease to understand the perpetual need females seem to have around playing games to “hook” men as opposed to being straightforward. It’s ridiculous. And no, sorry – men are not stupid; they do see through that since god knows they’ve had EONS to deal with it; THAT is why they appear to have more options – they do not. You can make your own options buy getting real with yourself and them. Unless your some kind of truly unattractive woman, there are ALWAYS options no matter your age, despite the competition from younger women because you have advantages they have not yet learned.

    Aside from that, you are never going to truly know who/what you’re dealing with until you sleep together for one thing. For another, yes are you ARE still judged but not for how quickly or not you jump in the sack – you are judged for how honest you are about what it means to you. As in, if you act like a player yourself that is all you will end up with. If you are genuine about why you want someone you are sexually compatible with and open to exploring that it’s a whole other level entirely, one which most men are quite happier to be on.

    All of these issues boil down to one simple concept: communication. communication. communication. As in keep it simple, keep it real, and for heaven’s sake stop assuming things. Let the other person show you who they are. You do the same.

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  41. Guitardiva Says:

    All of you (Meh in particular) sniping about 40 year olds…you are someday going to BE 40 or 50 or horrors! 60 years old and may still be searching for someone to appreciate your um, charms.

    Hopefully the ones who follow after you will be more tolerant and gracious than you people seem to be.

    This site is so depressing I may never go on another date again.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  42. Just Joni Says:

    NB, I salute you on having the umph to speak the truth!! I am a forty something year old woman that was married to the same man throughout all of her youth. The divorce was not what I wanted yet what was needed in this particular situation, I will not bore you with the details.

    Gals that are not in your twenties anymore… listen to what NB has to say, grow up, get to where you are good with you!!! When you get to a point where you are happy with you, REALLY HAPPY with who you are and like that person the men come out of the woodwork!! The so called 20% (more like 99.9%, come on, its how they are made) then find you so attractive that even though they originally just wanted a one night stand, they now want to get to know you more and find out what that “thing” is that you have and is pulling them like a magnet to you!

    Sexy and attractiveness is a state of mind, for the other person as well as you. It isn’t an age or a look. If you feel like you are sexy and attractive along with 110% self confidence and not feeling like you HAVE to have a man, then you will be surrounded!!! I have found this to be true though my years of just wanting what I had as well as the last few years of being cool with me, if I get a second date I do, if not ohhh well… The key is truly feeling that way, not just acting… It isn’t the act that pulls them in, it IS the CONFIDENCE! I had a guy that I was dating seriously that told me later what attracted me to him is that I wasn’t afraid to show my sexuality, funny after so many years of not being that way because of being afraid I would be thought of as a sult (raised southern baptist) then getting to the point to where I didn’t care and didn’t want strings myself …

    You know the saying “they always want what they can’t have?” It is very true and they can smell the real thing compared to “faking it.” And Ladies… When was you ever satisfied by faking it?????

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  43. Sarah Says:

    Wow, this is a really sexist article. I would not listen to a single thing this author says. If a guy in his 30s or 40s is not looking to date women his own age, he isn’t a great guy. Period. Yes, he might want kids, but there are consequences of waiting that long to have children for both genders. And those are that you might not get to have your own children. Even if this is a valid reason to look for younger women, he isn’t a match for you. Fine. There are literally millions of guys out there, why go for one who is sexist and believes in crazy double standards.
    I’m 38, have no problems dating guys in their late 20s, 30s and 40s and haven’t found that men differ in terms of wanting relationships at any of these ages. Actually I find that the guys in their 30s and 40s are more likely to want relationships.
    If you are a crappy person, you tend to surround yourself with crappy people. If you’re awesome you’ll likely choose to surround yourself with great people. If you believe that you are undatable and unlovable because of your age, you are more likely to agree to be with men who feel the same. Why? Have fun until someone more interesting comes along. Do put the work into contacting people, however. I am brave online and at bars and it has worked really well for me. I am approached more than my 30 year old friends and I am never shy about telling people my age. If they don’t like it, great. Thanks for telling me I wouldn’t want to waste a dinner with you. Cast your net wide and be selective about the men you are willing to meet up with and you’ll do fine.

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  44. Beth Says:

    This is the biggest load of trash advise I have ever heard. What you need to do is stop focusing on men and start focusing on yourself and doing things that you enjoy. Take up hobbies, retrain, take up activities – you’ll meet loads of interesting people (male and female) you’ll widen your social circles and you naturally bring yourself in more contact with possible mates!
    You will become more confident the more you invest in yourself – and that quality is the most appealing to men, more than age or appearance!
    I was a divorced mum of 2 and at the age of 42 started dating once again – it was a learning curve, but I built my confidence with every new date and I finally met the man of my dreams, who consequently is 13 yrs younger than me – we’ve been together now for 2 years. Will he leave me for a younger woman? He might, who knows – I may leave him for an older man! No-one knows the future so just enjoy what you have, love the man your with and most of all believe in your own worth (no matter your age!) – and don’t listen to rubbish like that ;)

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  45. Ray Says:

    Having sex with a guy you have no mutual acquaintances in common with, don’t actually know, know nothing about other than what he’s told you, have never met before and have no way of verifying anything he says is even true is fine theses days, so long as you don’t mind getting an irate phone call from his wife…You’re going home with a stranger you met off the net to have sex? Are you out of your mind? Why not have unprotected sex as well, maybe bring him home to meet your kids…I wouldn’t want anything to do with someone who does that, serious lack of good judgement, and who wants someone everyone has had and threw back, man or woman.

    Why would you even want one of these guys if all they do all day is troll internet sites posting this nasty rubbish trying to brow beat women, these guys are on dating sites for a reason, they’ve been kicked out everywhere else. We used to get that crowd in at work and actually cancelled some of our entertainment to stop attracting them, they were scaring off our regulars. If you want a real man you won’t find him on a dating site, or in the singles scene, decent men take one look at the crap going on there and run, who wants to go out to see a bunch of creepy people you normally run away from sniping at each other and trying to drag you into it, no thanks. To find a real mean you need to have a life, this singles scene garbage is pathetic, it’s not even strong arming women into having casual sex with losers, all it’s doing is putting women off men and making it harder for decent guys who do know how to treat women to approach them, women become more guarded. What is this really, “I can’t have her so I’m going to ruin it for everyone else too?” You’re the guy who gets beaten up a lot aren’t you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      “Why would you even want one of these guys if all they do all day is troll internet sites posting this nasty rubbish trying to brow beat women,”

      Unlike you, of course. Just just trying to help, I guess?? Maybe work on your anger issues before you go lecturing women on what to do.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

  46. Dan Says:

    This is an interesting blog and thought I’d weigh in. I am a single divorced 42 year old man and I would consider a women in her early forties for a relationship. However I would expect the women to be financially secure with a decent job and for her to own similar assets to myself, not asking for anymore than what I would be bringing to the relationship. I don’t think it is realistic for a 40 something year old women to be seeking financial security from a man, there are plenty of 20 to 30 something gold diggers out there.
    Really it is all about what you bring to the table – money, youth, looks, status, personality, amazing guitar playing?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  47. Amy Says:

    This is bullshit. If you actually do look young and are hot(Iam) and have some amazing hobbies and interests and experiences to back that up, you will have no shortage of competition-as in, guys competing until you find the one you really want to be with. My guy is 37, I am 45, and we have been together for 2 years, though the poor man slept on the floor for 6 months touring with me because I wouldn’t get intimate until I was sure it would be something real.If you really are *that* great a catch, and if you are, you know it, then don’t settle!

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  48. moonracer Says:

    It’s really sexist to tell men they can date women 5 years younger but a woman must date a man 5 years older. Our culture values youth and looks. You’re basically telling women “Screw what YOU want. You need to service men and be the younger women THEY want.”

    Why do women have to be treated like animals where our wants and desires don’t even matter? Why do women have to cater to the needs of men? Why are we asked to sacrifice our own happiness in order that men get the younger women that they want? Are we women not human beings just like men? Are we not equally important as men? (I’d argue we are even more important because we are the bedrock of our families, communities, and society). If so, men need to learn to date women their own age, so women can at least find a partner of the same age. This double standard is incredibly sexist and misogynistic.

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  49. Timothy Horrigan Says:

    Men the OP’s name and older will be very interested in her, assuming she has something to offer. Younger men, not so much. However old or young the guy may be, two of his biggest motivations will be to find someone to be physical with, and to find someone who appreciates them for what they are. If those two things are unacceptable to you, you’re going to have problems keeping him interested.

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