Just Because He Dumped You After Sex Doesn’t Mean He Just Wanted Sex

In the mean time, those of you looking for love should take a moment to know where your priorities lie.  Don’t ruin something potentially good by having sex too soon.  Sex is something great and well worth the wait! Yes, someone who wants to be with you will be with you regardless if you have sex early on or not, but, why let your judgment be clouded from seeing them for who they really are and seeing that they really want you for you and not keeping you around for sex.  Just wait to have sex and believe me it will be all the more better when it happens … think of all that tension building up … all that rip your clothes off tension just waiting to be released … why on earth would you want to give THAT up??? Single Dating Diva


The way I see it, the problem isn’t that some women wait to have sex. It’s that some women use sex to keep a guy interested.

It’s important that women learn the difference of these two actions.

I was having a discussion with a commenter over at XOJane. The topic was how women could avoid meeting men online who just wanted sex. A couple of women weighed in with their stories of how they often met those very guys. These men were attentive and said they wanted a relationship. Yet after the sexytime was had,  the men revealed they weren’t looking for anything serious. There may have been a couple of instances where the guy was after quick sex all along. It’s more likely that the excuse of not wanting anything serious was a lie. In an attempt to be kind, they contradicted their previous statement because they had determined that the woman wasn’t a contender. For future reference, guys, come up with a better lie than this.

Let’s also for a moment consider the importance of context. Did these men say they were looking for a serious relationship upfront or as part of some disclaimer? Or was this revelation part of a bigger or more general discussion? Many women like to say that the man told her he was looking for a relationship. In many cases, the guy was merely agreeing with a statement she made in attempt to go along to get along.

I suggested that these men may have been telling the truth. Maybe they were looking for a relationship. It’s possible that, after having sex with the woman, they decided that the “chemistry” wasn’t there. It could be that these men ended the new relationship not because they got what they wanted, but because they knew they wouldn’t get what they ultimately desired.

I firmly believe that a lot of women like to rationalize these particular scenarios.There’s a great deal of hypothesizing that gets done. The final determination, after much analysis, is that the men were just after a quick lay all along. That’s a much easier pill to swallow than the guy had sex with her and realized the relationship had no long term potential.

Often women are advised to wait a series of dates before having sex in order to flush out the guys just looking for sex. If the guy bails after a couple of dates, he was just in it for the nookie. Problem solved, right? Wrong. The waiting isn’t the problem. It’s the reasons behind the waiting that end up doing a woman in. Men are becoming better versed in identifying the women who choose to get to know someone before getting physical and the ones who use the possibility of sex as bait.That same guy who hung around while the woman decided it was okay to hit the sheets could still dump her out of the blue. There are guys looking for a one and done and guys looking for something casual. The former disappear after the initial hook-up. The latter group lingers. Some for months.

If you feel you have to wait things out just to determine a guy’s character, you’re heading down the wrong path. Honor can not be determined after a handful of dates. If you need to employ a set of tests to figure out if a guy will flake, then that means one thing. It signifies that you don’t trust yourself. It also hints at the possibility that you care far too much about what your female peers think. What’s the point of having a boyfriend if you can’t brag about how whipped he is, amirite?

Whether this fits with many women’s design, a lot of men require a sexual test run before they commit. More and more, women are needing the same trial experience to help determine compatibility. Which brings me back to the quote from the article.

Here’s what I think. I think a lot of women do what they can to scare women from sleeping with men “too soon” because they’ve come to the wrong conclusion as to why a guy Faded. Or because they’ve chosen poorly and ended up being pumped and dumped or blown off too often. If women no longer hold out, then it makes things much more difficult for those who do. It’s a very poorly constructed ruse, ladies. Stop falling for it.

Spoiler alert! You’re going to be pumped and dumped a few times here and there. It happens. If it happens a lot, then your picker is wonky and needs to be re-tuned. Time would be better spent fixing that problem rather than trying to get other women to follow your misguided lead.

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73 Responses to “Just Because He Dumped You After Sex Doesn’t Mean He Just Wanted Sex”

  1. Caprichaun Says:

    I agree 100%.

    Games and tests are a lousy foundation to build a relationship upon.

    Recently single again, one of the hard lessons learned is that honesty is paramount in every element of a good relationship – including the sack.

    Casual hookups and one night stands aside, compatibility is critical when looking for a long-term partner. It makes perfect sense for both people to explore their sexual chemistry. I believe sincerity is a crucial component of great sex. I can’t speak for all men, only myself, but I want a lover who enjoys sex as much as she does every other part of our relationship. If sex is a tool, then every other aspect of her commitment becomes suspect. I wasted too many years with a woman who was dishonest sexually and used it as a means of manipulation and control.

    I understand waiting until the moment is right. There is vulnerability for both partners the first time you cross that line – especially when there are emotions involved. It goes beyond trust; it is a respect issue as well.

    Personally, I will never open myself to a sexual strategist again. If the relationship isn’t good enough for a woman to be honest I’d rather be alone.

  2. Chianti-Z Says:

    In reading this article I realized that there are a lot of opinions on this. I personally wait till I get a committment prior to getting intimate. I do this because I am a very sensitive person. My feelings would be hurt if I slept with a guy and he fades. The waiting isn’t so much a withholding but a sussing time. And yes i have urges. But I’d rather make a friend out of a guy as opposed to feeling hurt and confused, hence the wait

  3. A to the F Says:

    I think the vast majority of women who complain about being dumped after having sex with a guy are under extreme delusions as to their own proficiency in bed. In other words, they are terrible lays who think they’re sexual goddesses.

    • rebecca Says:

      …..reading comments like this is exactly why I try to stay clear of sex too soon.

      Voices like these give me such paranoia that men are sociopaths when it comes to sex. That they can’t see that a first sexual encounter should be fun & exciting, but most likely won’t be great as both partners figure out one another’s rhythms, interests, preferences. Etc. Are you judging women based on one less than spectacular performance?

    • Howard Says:

      The same applies to a lot of men too. And wonen simply come back with the more paltable, “I don’t feel enough chemistry”.

      Quite unfortunate that ‘A to F’ had to put it so crudely with the poor lay comment. However there is much need in the sexual compatibilty area, if a relationship is going to work. Men especially hold sexual compatibility very highly. Most smart women also do the same. Things do slow down and get a little stale years down the road, so if the woman or man doesn’t blow your socks off enough, it is really the best thing to step away.

      When these dades occur after having sex, women unfortunately miss this and think they were just pumped and dumped. Men, too, miss it and think they wete led on and used.

      It’s time to see a blessing for what it is!

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I think the vast majority of women who complain about being dumped after having sex with a guy are under extreme delusions as to their own proficiency in bed.

      I agree with this 100%. If the sex is good, he’s coming back for more. If he’s not, then it’s because the sex didn’t satisfy him. Doesn’t mean he’ll stick around for long, of course. But if there is no Round 2 then it’s because Round 1 wasn’t satisfying.

  4. Hard ache Says:

    So refreshing to read this blog!!

    As a guy, there’s no shortage of sex in NYC. If I meet a girl who wants to “wait”, I’m more than happy to wait since I’m getting sex elsewhere anyway, I file it under “possibly manipulative” and then see if its borne out in subsequent interaction. (Yeah, this isn’t what you want to hear or what your girlfriends ever tell you, yeah?)

    Uniformly I find women rarely listen to the reasons why I’m fading. They conjured up their own whole host of reasons instead – few of them having to do with reality, and just stick with those because it never calls for any real acceptance of hard truths. They seem instead to prefer reasons their girlfriends have cooked up.

    Real reasons like – too insecure, too controlling, too much of a doormat, too wrapped up in your own self, i just cant explain myself yet one more time!!, you talk to aliens!!

    By contrast, their reasons – I gave in to sex too soon, you were only after one thing, you’re not ready to commit yet, you’re a dog – you’re only interested in sex

    Women seem to live in an echo chamber and I’m tired of it!

    • Julie Says:

      Really interesting POV! I didnt know that waiting could come across as manipulative.

      I cant speak for everyone but lots of us dont hook up fast because it just doesnt feel right when theres no trust. Has nothing to do with what our “girlfriends are telling us” because my girlfriends are the same girls you are hooking up with. All of my girls have told me to “stop being such a prude” as most pull the trigger on the 1st or 2nd date.

      I tried. Really did. Invited probably the hottest guy I’ve ever met over TWICE and made out with him. But he didnt push it and I couldnt pull the trigger. Still kicking myself for the missed opportunity since he is gone now. Not because of the sex. I could tell during conversations that he sometimes just looked bored.

      • CoolDude Says:

        Hey Julie,

        Just curious, was is it exactly that you need to “trust” about a guy. Are you worried that he’ll just disappear afterwards? The same can be said for women.

        • Julie Says:

          Not just disappear but that too. Sex makes me very attached and somewhat emotionally dependent on the guy, so I’d be pretty hurt and lonely if he bailed on me after the fact.

          That aside….its difficult to explain. The physical and emotional components go hand-in-hand. The fact that sex is an emotional experience does make me want to ensure that there is enough of a relationship/friendship there to feel like the guy is someone I can trust – not just that he wont disappear but that he will simply care about me because I care about him. This may sound corney, but I’m looking for him to feel a certain way about me so that I can reciprocate that feeling physically.

          If you felt comfortable enough with someone to trust discussing something very personal and sensitive with him/her and this person after the fact decided that they never wanted to speak to you again or treated your feelings with indifference, would you not want to protect yourself from this level of volunerability in the future? I’ve actually never had a guy bail on me after sex, but I did get treated pretty badly by the first guy I dated after agreeing to sex too soon. Learned my lesson with that first dude.

          Hope that makes sense.

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            Sex makes me very attached and somewhat emotionally dependent on the guy, so I’d be pretty hurt and lonely if he bailed on me after the fact.

            Right, but that’s about you. Not the guy. Sex or no sex, you get attached. You, and many other women who think like this, have convinced themselves that having sex makes them more attached when it probably doesn’t.

            • Julie Says:

              You are absolutely right!

              I do get overly attached – period. It always felt like any physical contact made the feelings of attachment worse…but I could be wrong. None of my friends male or female have ever been like this. Maybe I’m misreading my own reaction…possible.

              And I agree, it was absolutely not about the guy. He was just living his life and it was me knowingly making idiotic choices on pretty much a daily basis. He and his (now) wife are friends of mine to this day and couldnt be nicer.

        • Caveat Says:

          I need to be able to trust that the man will be respectful in bed, receptive to my/new ideas, honest, and kind if I am going to show him my whole naked self. It takes me more than just one or two dinners to ascertain even someone’s musical tastes, let alone those crucial character traits.
          Don’t men want the same thing? You wouldn’t want to go to bed with someone who might be cruel about your body/performance, who might ridicule you behind your back with her friends, who might have lied about her STD status, etc.
          Also, no method of contraception is foolproof, so there is that too.

          • mindstar Says:

            The average man is happy with a woman who is fun and enjoys sex. If she’s openminded so much the better. If we never meet her friends we could care less what she says to them. As for as disease/pregnancy. “No glove no love.”

            • coffeestop Says:

              I will admit I did hold out on a dude who gave me some speech about how condoms ruined the feeling blah blah . He was clearly a player and I did not want to pick up anything from him. He was very defensive about it. I did not think making a condon a condition of sex was really a big deal. It wasn’t like I was asking for a unicorn and a ring.

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            Don’t men want the same thing?

            Men don’t need to calibrate a woman’s sexual performance or ability before having sex with her. This rationalization is no different than the ones that were being thrown around when we were talking about oral sex. The guys who say things like they only go down on woman if she’s freshly shaved and showered simply don’t like oral sex or feel insecure about their performance. It’s a tell, as DMN said.

            When I hear women talk about needing to determine a guy’s sexual compatibility/prowess or needing trust, all hear is a woman making as many excuses possible to not have sex.

  5. mindstar Says:

    Nice analysis Moxie. A related possibility, and this especially applies to women who use the promise of sex as a lure to make a man hang around, is that all too often the woman is no where near the tigress in bed that she paints herself to be and the man ends up unsatisfied and dissapointed. Kind of like the woman who was spanked once and now claims she’s knky and experienced in B&D.

    Since a good sex life is a critical relationship element for nearly all men this results in the man breaking it off after sex because he knows that the woman is incapable of fulfilling that critical element. He may also be upset because he wasted resources and most importantly time on what turned out to be a dead end.

  6. Yvonne Says:

    Mot women I know don’t wait to have sex as a manipulation tactic. They wait to have sex until they know a man better, feel comfortable with him, and have established some level of trust. They wait because they want to have a better idea of long-term potential, and that can’t be discovered after one or two dates. Of course, it still isn’t fool-proof, but I’m not really understanding this idea of sex used as “bait”, at least for me and the women I know. In my own experience, it’s certain men who have been pretty manipulative at trying to get a woman to go to bed with them by telling her what they think she wants to hear, while avoiding commitment.

    • Howard Says:

      Good comments. However, add to that list, apprehension or when taken to an extreme, fear. A lot of women do worry about measuring up. She may worry about, if he finds her body attractive, or if she if she is any good in bed. I think most men can somewhat deal with waiting beacause of such apprehension.

      What I. can tell you, is that waiting won’t change too much in the way he sees your body or the way he views your sexual compatibilty. In some rare cases, he may sense a woman’s openess to change and be willing to work with her to get thing right between them. However, disappointment is a cruel thing and the more he invests, unfotunately, the more he expects. So having a guy wait too long can backfire.

      The root of the problem for most human beings is “control”. Men have always been uncomfortable with having little or no control about the decision as ti when sex will take place. And women always uncomfortable about losing some control in the decision making process, as to whether sex is going to keep taking place.

      Then there is this thing about disappointment. I am going to put it out there that disappointment is always tough to deal with, irregardless of whether sex took place or not. Attempts at somehow elevating the level of disappointment, because of sex in nothing but a self-focussed view. Men are just as disappointed after a number of dates, only to be friend zoned or told no chemistry is felt. We all disappoint other people. It has become absurd to villainize other people who disappoint us, while giving ourself a pass when we disappoint others.

      And really, we will keep disappointing others. We have no control on other people’s expectations.

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I’m not really understanding this idea of sex used as “bait”,

      It’s not a difficult concept to understand. It really isn’t. Which is why, when women act all doe eyed about the idea of using sex to get a guy to commit, I usually assume they’re the women who use sex to get guys to commit.

  7. mindstar Says:

    Yvonne I am describing a situation where the woman requires the man to commit to her prior to sex and has lead him on with statements such as “Oh I have to feel comfortable with you first” and “It will be so much better if we wait” and “I’m a really talented lover and worth the wait”. All quotes told to me by a friend who ignored my advice that he was being deceived and who after 3 months of this (all while he was still paying for ALL of their dates) described the long delayed sex as “the most unsatisfactory, soul destroying experience in my 40+ years on Earth.

    • Julie Says:

      What makes you think the lousy lover was asking him to wait to manipulate him? If you had said she wanted to date him forever but never sleep with him, I would say, yeah she was using him but 3 months is kind of typical for the “wait for a relationship crowd”.

      I do agree her not paying for dates is tacky and selfish but manipulative? Did it only become manipulative when the sex was bad?

      I dont think theres anything wrong with a guy feeling like its not worth it for him to invest for 3 months into an unknown and be left disappointed if he can get it today from someone else. Conversely, I dont see how theres anything wrong with waiting if thats the right thing for you. Everyone has their personal needs and standards.

      • CoolDude Says:

        3 months? We’re grown-ups now. I understand the “blah blah blah, I need to feel comfortable” side of things but after 3-4 dates, you’ll have an idea of if you want to date someone or sleep with him. Sure, 3-4 is a general number and everyone’s different but I think most can agree that’s an acceptable time frame.

        Flame away….

        • Julie Says:

          Lolol. Not flaming. Everyone has their own needs and standards. Obviously, the chick thats going to wait 3 months is not the chick you are going to date and thats ok. After 3 dates, what do you actually know about a person? What do you actually feel beyond an attraction?

          After somewhere between 1-3 dates, I know whether or not sex is on the table and whether I want to keep dating you.

          It all depends on what you look for as the criteria for sleeping with or dating someone. If the criteria for wanting sex is attraction, then sure 3 dates is enough….hell 15 seconds is enough for some. If you are looking to see if this person has relationship potential in addition to attraction, that may take a bit longer. If you are looking for friendship in addition, that may take longer, etc… Different strokes for different folks.

          • LostSailor Says:

            The thing is, for men sex is often a way to explore relationship potential and actually build a relationship. Men who will wait three months have no other options, usually, and women know this…

          • CoolDude Says:

            I believe what you’re saying is sincere. However, I don’t buy this mantra that women get SO much more emotionally attached after sleeping with someone. Sure, it changes the dynamic a bit but I think it’s a bit overblown that a woman immediately gets SO MUCH MORE into a guy after just one sex session. I feel like, if I were a woman, I’d be a bit offended by that as it is often perceived as a weakness and is really unfair and stereotypes females.

            • Julie Says:

              I dont claim to speak for women, just me. I generally will wait 1-3 months before sleeping with someone so I can understand why that chick waited 3 months. I need it to feel like a relationship even if its unofficial. I can usually have a sense of who I’m with and where things are going in that time. Entirely possible that this wait is a personal weakness. Several of my female friends generally hook up on the first or second date and have no trouble walking away at the first sign of any undesirable trait in the guy. I wish I were more like them. The first 3 or 4 years of my dating life, I found that if I slept with a guy and things went south, I couldnt seem to walk away and those were guys I slept with 3 to 6 weeks into dating. Entirely possible that this is a personal short coming. The upside of this short coming is I dont cheat, BBD or quick to chuck a relationship that hits a few bumps.

              As for guys not being willing to wait that long. I havent found this to be the case, but admittedly I will escallate the physical activity through a lot of foreplay prior to pulling the trigger on intercourse. So the guy usually has a pretty good sense of what he is in for. But again, just me. Cant say the other chick did that.

              • K Says:

                You are not alone. I 100% feel this way too. I’m not looking to manipulate anyone. Just managing my feelings and expectations based on past experiences.

            • rebecca Says:

              It all depends on the sexual experience.
              For me, I do sometimes get more attached & other times not.

              For me, if I sleep with someone within the first 3 dates it’s for a reason. I like you in some manner. It could be just physical attraction or it could be more.

              So I’m already predisposed to like this person. Some guys, after sex, get extra nice. They can get cuddly. They want to spoon. They can stroke your hair and say super nice things to you. If that’s what happens, that’s when I start transitioning into deeper emotional attachment.

              Other guys are just a little bit more standoffish after sex. This tells me that sure, this was a fun time. I like this guy but I don’t really know him. I won’t write this person off altogether, but I’m also not getting into super emotional, vulnerable territory.

              It just pisses me off when someone starts pulling the cuddly compliment routine if they have no intention of continuing or escalating the ‘relationship’ in any particular manner.

            • Molly Says:

              “I don’t buy this mantra that women get SO much more emotionally attached after sleeping with someone”

              I feel this to be very unfair coming from a man. Our biological differences are very subjective. You don’t buy it because clearly you don’t become very emotionally attached to women once you sleep with them a number of times. Granted, all men and women are different, but as a whole I would say that yes, women get far more attached than men do. This isn’t some mysterious concept either, considering oxytocin plays a large role in bonding and is secreted in vast amounts in women. Men have it, too, but testosterone counterracts those effects. On top of it all, if a woman is relatively new to sex and dating, the attachment will likely be far more intense.

              I was with a man for six years (my first boyfriend). He passed away, and only in the past few months have I started dating again. I equate sex with love, or atleast I need to feel significant to the person I’m sleeping with. I dated a man for about two months, slept with him on the fourth date, and things continued to look promising for weeks after. I was heartbroken and confused when he did the disappearing act. I have learned my lesson, but I’m still mulling over it and trying to get over him (it has been two months). This is why I will probably refrain from sex early on. Not out of malice or manipulation, but because I can’t handle the emotional toll sex takes on me.

    • Yvonne Says:

      Just because a woman thinks she’s good in bed when she isn’t, doesn’t mean she’s being manipulative. Deluded, maybe.

      Soul destroying? It must have been REALLY bad.

    • Yvonne Says:

      Also, I’m wondering, when you say she “required” your friend to “commit” to her, what does that mean? Were they fooling around at all, with things escalating, or just kissing?

      • mindstar Says:

        No escalation, Nothing more than kissing until “the Day”. And by “required” she wanted him to stop seeing other women (by way of background he had just started online dating after a long marriage and VERY nasty divorce). He was dating a few women and he felt he had the most in common with her (similar politics/religion etc) so he agreed. .

  8. Monique Says:

    It’s so crazy that you wrote this article! I just published a novel called, “How Long You Should Wait to Have Sex: a novel,” which is about a girl who meets this very guy! He says he wants a relationship and I believe that he’s sincere about it in the moment, but when they have sex he disappears! The main character, Samantha, thinks they were perfect for each other, so wishes that she hadn’t had sex with him so soon, and bizarrely her off-handed wish comes true, and she ends up getting several more chances to go back in time and try to wait longer and longer before having sex with the guy (John), but every time, no matter how long she waits, he “freaks out” and breaks up with her after sex. It even gets to the point where she starts to question if it’s because she’s not good in bed– just as many of the commentators here have pointed out. Anyway, I think the book comes to a lot of the same conclusions as this blog post. It was just too serendipitous not to mention!

    Despite my having written a book that sort of gets into examining this issue through a magic spell, my personal approach and reasons for waiting in my own life are a little different…

    When I wait, it’s because A) I’m trying to determine if I’m interested at all. B) I like the guy, and I want to get to know him better, because sex can become the main focus once it happens, and I don’t want to be blinded by it quite yet, as I’m enjoying getting to know and learn who this person is. Or C) I want the sexual experience to include true feelings on both of our parts, because feelings make the sex even better and more special.

    When I don’t wait for sex it’s because I’ve already determined that while I’m attracted to a guy, I know that I would never want a relationship with him. So actually, if I jump into bed with a guy, he should probably be a little offended. It means I don’t care for his personality–lol.

    (BTW, I’m gonna share this article on my site and FB, too. Thanks for posting so much interesting stuff!)

    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      I let the last round of comments from you pass because I was trying to extend a courtesy.

      You wrote some hilarious tale about a woman who turns 30 and decides to take back all the sex she’s had. Got it.

      • Monique Says:

        Thank you for the courtesy. I’m sorry if I’ve offended you. While I just discovered your blog this week, I do want to make something clear… I think your posts are awesome and your perspective is unique. That’s why I’ve started commenting here, and also why I’m reposting your articles, with links to send new people back to your site.

        • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

          You didn’t offend me. I’m suggesting that you should comment on blogs in order to become part of the discussion, not to promote. You’ll get further that way.

    • CoolDude Says:

      “When I don’t wait for sex it’s because I’ve already determined that while I’m attracted to a guy, I know that I would never want a relationship with him. So actually, if I jump into bed with a guy, he should probably be a little offended. It means I don’t care for his personality–lol.”

      So….the guys you like you make wait whereas the guys you DON’T like you just jump right into bed with. Yes, makes perfect sense.

      • mindstar Says:

        It must because a few other women here have made similar comments. I don’t understand the logic but then I’m a guy.

        • krismae Says:

          Speaking for myself, it’s easier to separate the emotions from the physical act if there’s something there that makes me not want to be with them outside of the bedroom. And it’s not the surface thing, it’s usually an obnoxious personality trait or just knowing from the beginning that it’s not going to go past a casual hookup. I know it doesn’t seem fair, but for me, it’s managing my own emotional health and expectations.

          • K Says:

            Yeah I’ve been in that boat before too. If I really like a guy, his looks and his personality, I know not hearing from him after sex will likely hurt me too much so I take my time getting to know him better. I have met a guy I think is hot, but it’s clear I don’t have anything else in common with him (often they are just dating me they think I’m hot and I can tell aren’t into much else about me). There I don’t care if he calls. Just self preservation.

          • CoolDude Says:

            “I know it doesn’t seem fair…”

            Well, at least you own up to it.

        • Monique Says:

          I know this doesn’t always seem logical to guys, so let me clear something up. I don’t ALWAYS have sex with a guy I don’t like but find attractive. I only have sex with a guy I don’t like (but find attractive) if I am specifically looking for sex, but not in the mood for a relationship. This situation doesn’t happen very often. It is most likely to happen if I am rebounding (and therefor not ready to get attached), or if it’s been an extremely long long time since I last had sex, and I feel I need the release for (let’s say) “medicinal” purposes.

          The rest of the time, I am not looking for casual sex. I am looking for a relationship. And when I look for a relationship, I put sex on the back burner, because I want to get to know a person and love them and trust them for who they are, and establish a mutual understanding about our exclusivity with each other before I get into bed with a man.

          So really, what it comes down to is what phase I am at in my life path, and who I sleep with is determined by what I’m looking for right now. By the same token, I am likely to be more forgiving of a man’s looks when I am looking for a relationship, because at that point I’m more interested in the connection we have.

  9. LostSailor Says:

    The waiting isn’t the problem. It’s the reasons behind the waiting that end up doing a woman in. Men are becoming better versed in identifying the women who choose to get to know someone before getting physical and the ones who use the possibility of sex as bait.

    There’s nothing wrong with wanting to get to “get to know someone” better before giving up the goods, but there’s a limit for most guys, or at least the more aware guys. And Moxie’s quite right that men are getting better at discerning the difference. I also find it a bit disingenuous all the claims from the ladies that “I never use sex as bait, and I don’t know anyone who does!” Women who hold out the promise of future sex are never going to actually admit that they’re using it as bait to keep a guy interested. This doesn’t mean that they won’t eventually sleep with him (men won’t live on promises forever) or that she doesn’t want to sleep with him (studies have shown that most women make that decision pretty early on), but they are intent on extracting maximum value before doing so.

    Single Dating Diva’s advice is crap, especially Yes, someone who wants to be with you will be with you regardless if you have sex early on or not. Sorry, ladies, we won’t wait forever. The days of men “committing” to women before having sex are largely over. Men who put up with this are men who have few or no other options. But here’s one tip if you’re going to try to go the “hold out” route: escalation. I’ve said here before that a man will stick around in the absence of sex as long as there is forward movement toward that end, but sooner rather than later.

    Why? Because of what AttF and Mindstar have noted. We know that the event is likely to be less stellar than advertised. (And before you get your panties in a twist, ladies, yes, this can hold true of men as well. Present commenter excepted, naturally.) This is probably the number one reason why guys will dump you after you’ve had sex. They’re not going to come out and tell you that the test drive revealed problems with this particular model…

    • coffeestop Says:

      I am glad that you offered the clarification that both men and women can end up offering less than stellar sexual performances. I can remember a few times being told by a dude that past partners said they were just the best ever and then being disappointed. I have also had the experience of discussing likes and dislikes prior and then having my partner get very very angry when I said “well I told you X was not something I was comfortable with” . My point being even when you try to communicate about where your boundaries are there often the other person just doesn’t want to hear it the result being the other person thinks “so and so is not good in bed because they did not want to do X”. I think that has made me hesitate on the hook up end. I do not have an assigned waiting time for myself, it just depends on the person and situation.

      Having said all that I do think it is fair to dump somebody after sex that was blah. Basically, none of us like being dumped. Aren’t most of the letters here some variant of ” I was dumped and I don’t know why.” Pretty much everybody over estimates their own awesomeness which of course leads to “waaaaah how could he/she not see how perfect I was for them”.

      • fuzzilla Says:

        >I can remember a few times being told by a dude that past partners said they were just the best ever and then being disappointed.<

        That was a red flag right there. Who does that? I can't imagine "I'm really gonna rock your world" organically fitting into a conversation. If you have to advertise, it's something you're defensive about.

        • coffeestop Says:

          Yes. I lesson I had to learn which expands to pretty much every other area of existence. If you have to brag about anything expecially in that frantic ‘i am a very confident person ” way well you aren’t. Eh. I was much younger and clearly needed to obtain that wisdom.

      • LostSailor Says:

        I can remember a few times being told by a dude that past partners said they were just the best ever and then being disappointed.

        I would never trust a woman’s compliment in this department. Besides, if I’ve done my part properly, she’s panting too hard to get out coherent sentences let alone compliments…

        • coffeestop Says:

          Hmmm. Irony.

        • A to the F Says:

          Why ruin the surprise by telling her how awesome one is in bed? Isn’t it better for her to find out in the moment? Guys who brag are doing a hard sell because they don’t have what it takes to get the girl without the brag.

    • Chianti_Z Says:

      Call me crazy but the first time with a new partner isn’t stellar, ever (ok, not ever). I mean, its stellar in that you’ve reached that point with a man, but its not mind blowing. Its mind blowing after some practice. I just wonder if some of the commenters on this blog ever took the time to really get to know their partner and to get to the “awesome time” to be had once you know their every preference, kink etc.

      I can understand a man/woman not “feeling it” should they not be sexually compatible and possibly not seeing that person again. The person may be great in bed with someone else, doesn’t mean they necessarily suck in bed.

  10. D. Says:

    I can understand wanting to trust a guy so that you can open up in the act of sex itself, and therefore wanting to wait. That, to me, sounds more like what someone considers good sex. That’s different, however, from wanting to trust that he won’t up and bail after having sex. That risk always exists to greater or lesser degrees. Sex isn’t a binding contract signifying that you won’t bail on each other.

    What gets me more is the worry about being “used” since that notion seems like such an abdication of agency and responsibility. This, by the way, goes towards all accusations of being “used,” including those that guys allege re: women “using” them for free meals. I suppose there are circumstances we could imagine where someone is a pathological liar who completely manipulates the other person…but even then, nobody’s a helpless victim here. We’re all people making choices the whole way through. While someone may be self-centered and callous about others, that doesn’t absolve you of your own “contributory negligence” in making a bad call. Accept it, and recognize your own agency in the process. Doing so can be incredibly liberating, actually.

    Like, Mindstar’s friend who was “misled” by someone into waiting for three months for lousy sex, and then blames a manipulative woman for leading him on about the quality of sex. What, he couldn’t just say “I’m not interested in waiting” and leave? It’s one thing to be disappointed in the results. And yeah, that sucks if you wait that long only to discover a staggering lack of sexual compatibility. Bummer there, bro. But at the same time, the notion that this woman led you on or was conning you the whole time? Sorry, I call bullshit.

    In my experience people are a lot less likely to be consciously manipulative, and more likely will misread situations, be lacking in self-awareness, or have the capacity to bullshit themselves. Your job, therefore, is twofold: (1) get better at reading other people, and (2) when you misread it, own your mistake.

    There’s always a risk you’ll end up disappointed when dating. Telling “Can you BELIEVE THIS SHIT?” stories may be cathartic, but past a certain point, it’s also counterproductive. The more time you spend blaming other people for disappointing encounters, the less likely you become to recognize that you were making choices that contributed to that disappointment the whole way through — and thus the less likely you are to (A) be able to bounce back from it when things go to hell, and (B) to actually change anything if you decide you want to do so.

  11. Speedy Says:

    Nobody is “used for sex”. If you don’t wqnt to have sex, don’t. If you do, own it please.
    Behind all this complaining are some very unhealthy attitudes… You had sex because you wanted something in return and now you’re angry you didn’t get it? There is a word for that kind of person. Ask for money instead next time and get it up front if that is how you roll.

    Unless you prostitute yourself and get cheated on the payment, you were not “used” for sex.

    • Julie Says:

      I would disagree. You can be used for sex. A male friend of mine dated a woman he saw as having relationship potential. They were sleeping together as part of exploring that relationship potential. Within a month, he realized he did not see her as relationship material but wanted to keep her as a FWB.

      Well, he kind of didnt tell her this and continued to do things that indicated relationship building activities such as inviting her over to play board games with his kid.

      I suggested he tell her that he wants to scale the relationship down to something casual. He said he didnt want to tell her that this was casual because he “knew” she would cut him off if she knew there was no long term potential. So he continued to act like he was building a relationship with her and a second FWB, all the while looking for a BBD.

      That is dishonest in my opinion.

      • D. Says:

        Does it happen? Yeah, I think stuff like this does happen. It’s usually just people being selfish and a bit cowardly.

        At the same time, while he may have misled her, she could also have said “So…just to be clear, is this, like, going anywhere?” But maybe she didn’t because she “knew” that if she had, he’d have told her straight up “no. It isn’t.” Instead, she remained silent and allowed things to continue on the assumption that all was well.

        Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not condoning knowingly leading people on. But there’s two sides to these kinds of stories, and it takes two to tango. So, yeah, maybe he led her on, and that’s not cool. But it’s not as if she was helpless in this, either and it’s not like she had no ability to speak up for what she wanted.

        Maybe your friend is selfish, narcissistic, and a shitty guy for knowingly leading someone on. But even if that’s true, the woman in the story is not helpless nor without a voice. She has agency. She can make her own choices. In fact, she made them: she chose not to confront your friend on the issue and walk away if she got the answer she didn’t want.

        Demonizing the other person all too often means we give up our own agency in the process, because doing so is necessary to sustain and enhance the “victim” narrative. Do that too often, and you’ll start believing you ARE powerless, which leads to more bad decisions, which only reinforces the narrative to the point where you can’t see beyond it.

        • Julie Says:

          Its true that had she asked, he would have told her there was no future. He was intentionally misleading her….how many people invite their FB to spend saturday night playing board games with their teenaged son?!

          The tricky part about her asking “where is this going” is that we are often told that men see being “confronted” with future talk too early is seen as a big red flag of desparation. So sure, ask where its going after 4 or 5 months, but not after 1 or 2 months.

          I wouldnt say its a matter of being some helpless victim, thats overblown. But no one likes having their sincere intentions used as a means of decieving them whether its to get free sex, getting a free dinner, or for that matter I dont think most people like it when a homeless guy tells them he is hungry then spends their money on drugs. Its one thing if its an innoscent misunderstanding, its another when you hit all the buzz words intentionally to get what you want.

          I know I’m going to get flack for this, but had the woman not jumped into bed with my friend so quickly, he wouldnt have continued calling her when he knew there was no relationship potential. Just sayin’ ;-).

          • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

            .how many people invite their FB to spend saturday night playing board games with their teenaged son?!

            Exactly. Not many people would do that. Which is why you may want to consider the possibility that he does see her as more than FWB but isn’t telling you that. You seem awfully involved in your friend’s romantic lives. It could be that he’s just trying to keep you in the dark on purpose. You also seem oblivious to how judgmental you come across when it comes to other women. It’s totally possible that the woman knows and even thinks herself that the relationship has no long term potential.

            • Julie Says:

              I am judgemental but not in relation to this story.

              As for the guy in the story, he is one of my best friends and we regularly bounce dating issues off of each other and we have both been guilty of both kindness and selfishness (like everyone else). He gave me lots of advise on the last guy I dated. Kinda goes both ways.

              As for him snowing me on his real feelings….doubt it. He didnt have to tell me anything at all. Sometimes he would discuss his relationships at the time, sometimes after the fact, and sometimes not at all.

              He would generally only talk about the women he saw as having LTR potential. And initially, he said he was interested in this woman for the long haul. After about a month, he said she had turned him off and he now just enjoyed the sex with her and a second FWB and was seriously pursueing a different woman. Based on what he told me about this woman, sounded like she liked him a lot. She even came to take care of him when he was sick. I suggested that he should reset her expectations. He said, “No” as he felt she wouldnt go for a casual relationship and he was enjoying the sex. Well, a couple of months later when things began to escallate, he broke it off with her. He called and told me how shocked he was by the dramatic and appologetic phone calls he received from her. So no, she did not think it was just casual.

              But thanks for assuming the worst. This was over a year ago and he now has an amazing girlfriend.

          • D. Says:

            There’s two parts of why this story ends badly. The first is your friend doing misleading stuff, potentially. If he’s knowingly misleading the woman, that’s not cool. Now, “knowingly” is perhaps a bit more flexible than you might think. Maybe he suspect she wants more, but isn’t 100% sure. For example, say they’re both on the same dating site, and he can see when she pops online. Even though they’re doing this pseudo-couply stuff, he sees her pop on periodically, and therefore assumes that she’s still seeing other people or is at least looking around, so no harm, no foul. Or maybe she said previously that she didn’t want anything serious. I don’t know. At a certain point, I’ll agree that he probably should do the decent thing and tell her this isn’t going anywhere, but that’d depend heavily on the circumstances.

            That said, even if he’s being a total shit, even if he’s consciously manipulating her…she’s going along with it, to a degree. The notion of “Oh, but she CAN’T ask him because guys don’t like that” is a cop-out. It absolves her of responsibility for choosing not to ask because she wouldn’t necessarily like the response. If she’s worried about scaring him off and opts not to ask him, that’s still her choice. She’s making a calculated decision that she would rather enjoy what she has in front of her and assume all is well, than risk getting a disappointing response or walk away because it isn’t going the way she wants.

            And this is true any time you’re in such a situation. Do you want to escalate things to a point where they’re exclusive? Then you’ve basically got three choices: (1) ask and live with whatever the answer is, (2) walk away because you know the answer won’t be want you want, or (3) stay and assume all is well. But all of that is still your choice, including choosing to continue as before without asking and rocking the boat. The other party may do less-than-noble things in the process, and you may be afraid that you’ll get a bad response or scare them away, but their shittiness and/or your fear don’t negate your ability to make a choice nor your responsibility to look out for yourself.

            This, by the way, would be a totally different situation if he’d explicitly said “I’m not seeing anyone else, and I only want to see you,” and then went out with other people or kept looking around. That’s flat out lying. But when you’re operating in this grey area with a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, both parties bear some responsibility and both parties still have the capacity to change their circumstances if they want to.

            • Julie Says:

              I hadnt thought of it in those terms but this really makes a lot of sense! If the guy walks away because he feels “rushed” by an inquery or sees it as a red flag, I guess you can chock it up to a sign that you are not compatible as you have different expectations from dating. I love it!

            • Yvonne Says:

              At what point is the woman supposed to ask? Julie’s friend said he knew their wasn’t long-term potential after only a month, but kept leading her on because he enjoyed the sex. Many women aren’t going to ask after a month or two, especially if they are getting great signals from a guy. If the relationship goes on for months, then yes, the woman needs to ask. Julie’s friend admitted he was using her. “He said, “No” as he felt she wouldnt go for a casual relationship and he was enjoying the sex.” I doubt that he was really as shocked as he claimed to be when he finally broke up with her. He knew she’d be upset, but he hoped she wouldn’t be as upset as she was.

              • D. Says:

                She’s “supposed” to ask whenever she damn well pleases, as long as she’s willing to accept the results that follow, for good or ill. My point is that she gets to choose when she does — or doesn’t — raise the question.
                I also don’t think any of us (perhaps even Julie) have enough info to say whether the woman’s reaction after he called it off was over the top, legitimate, or what. I mean, it could be that she was nowhere near as dramatic as he made it sound. Or she could’ve gone all Glenn Close, informing him that she’s not going to be IGNORED, Dan. We really don’t know, and reading into the situation is really just us projecting ourselves and our own experiences onto the story we’re being told. That’s understandable, but it doesn’t turn our read of the situation into what actually happened.

                Look, it sucks when things don’t work out the way you want or expect. And yeah, getting blindsided sucks doubly. And it’s totally reasonable to feel incredulous when someone bails on you seemingly out of left field. But it’s important to bear in mind a few things when that happens.

                First, pay attention to the circumstances. Was it REALLY that out of left field, or were there other mixed signals along the way? Usually, hindsight being 20/20, you can spot this or that moment that could’ve clued you in that things weren’t quite as wonderful as you thought and you may have been caught up in the moment, or seeing what you wanted to see.

                Second, recognize that there were never any guarantees, particularly when you hadn’t had the discussion about exclusivity. Even after that, the bottom can always fall out. It’s a risk you have to accept, to a degree. I don’t mean that people should be foolhardy about how invested they get in others, but you can’t live your life in a defensive crouch. Well, you can, but you can’t do it and expect to be content or happy.

                Lastly, recognize that you always have the power to determine how you respond to these situations. You can choose to raise the issue, or let it sit. You can choose to simply walk away. And recognize that, at each step along the way, you’re making choices. There are women I’ve put more energy into trying to date than I probably should have. And yes, they sent mixed signals, and lacked insight into themselves, or were flaky or self-absorbed. But I still chose to pursue them. I still gave it a chance. I could’ve walked, or confronted them about things. Instead, I hung in, and the bottom dropped out. Shit happens.

                It’s really tempting to demonize the other person, particularly when they act poorly. It’s understandable to want to do that, and probably healthy to do it to a degree, to the extent it helps you move on. But as I’ve said, there comes a point where blaming the other person can become self-defeating, because you cease to see your own role — and your own power — in the equation, which can lead you to take a far more passive role in future dating (which probably ends up leading to the exact same result).

                • fuzzilla Says:

                  D., you need your own blog (that’s a compliment that means “I like what you have to say,” not “quit hogging the mic”).

                  I don’t agree with arbitrary rules for when to have sex or when to broach the “so where’s this going?” talk. People that use them, I can kind of understand where they’re coming from, though. They’re trying to “fake it ’til they make it.” No one wants to be seen as needy or clingy, so people who feel needy and clingy turn to arbitrary external rules to help them mask that to appear more confident and relaxed than they are. It’s like Moxie said, it’s a “tell” that they don’t trust themselves.

                  Quick fixes like that have their time and place, if they help you keep your cool in the moment, but it’s better to do the hard work of sorting your issues out so there’s no need for them. Clinging to arbitrary rules is also more harmful than a beer or two to loosen yourself up, as it’s training yourself to mask and stuff down your real feelings.

                  • D. Says:

                    Thanks! Although, in all honesty, I’m not saying stuff that Moxie herself hasn’t said, too, and was saying before I chimed in. I’m basically just writing a (much) longer-winded version of her “own your shit” message, based on my own experiences.

                    As to the points you raise about timelines and rules of thumb and whatnot, I agree — they’re helpful up to a point. They provide basic structure and guidelines for what’s pretty common. But they often lack context, and can end up being a trap. Following them can help ground you, but slavish devotion to them can also end up just causing agita. You can end up focusing on how things haven’t gone according to some arbitrary schedule, and missing what’s actually happening in front of you, and — more importantly — where you stand on it.

  12. The D-man Says:

    Good advice.

    I don’t put a lot of value on sex, pro or con. I’ve had one-night-stands with girls with whom I’ve wanted more and they’re not interested, and vice versa. Chemistry does matter to me, but if she serves up sex early on, I’ll take the bait. And if she wants to wait, that’s fine too — provided I’m interested in pursuing her. Scoring just for the sake of scoring gets boring pretty quickly.

  13. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I agree with much of Moxie’s commentary here but I disagree that a common reason guys don’t call for “more sex” is because the sex was “bad.” Maybe I’m unique but I’ve never had sex that was so bad that, by itself, it would deter me from another date. There are certainly other things that I may not have liked about her or the date that would lead me to not go out again. Even so-called bad sex is usually good enough for another go, all else equal. In general, women don’t have to do much for sex to be good

    If you’re wondering why a guy didn’t call again after sex, either he was probably never going to call again anyway, or there was something else about you that he didn’t like that outweighed the possibility of more sex.

    • Jade Says:

      Yes, this has been more my experience, that the sexual part of the relationship continued but we didn’t get to know each other in other ways, or were incompatible in ways not involving sex. Rarely has the relationship ended after a one-time sexual experience. I had more than one person tell me that if had only been sex the relationship would never have ended but there were other areas of incompatibility.

  14. Charles Says:

    I never use first-time sex to judge skill level or comparability. To me, first-time sex can be really awkward as you are getting to know what works for the two of you. You will bump heads, connect with inadvertent elbows, etc. I’m impressed if we can laugh together about stuff like that & go with it.

    Sex always gets better as you get to know each other.

  15. KeriSeen Says:

    So wrong.
    I’m a very attractive woman that most men want to bed.
    If I bedded all of them before I felt comfortable they were INTO ME, instead of wanting to ‘get INTO me’, then I’d be what you guys so often call ‘a slut’.
    I think the free for all sexual thing of the current time is actually ‘free for men.’
    And it sucks.

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