Does Race Factor In To What Your Dating League Is?

August 12th, 2013

Dating, Dating & Race

Name: joyMulticultural-women-pic
Comment: Hi Moxie, I don’t know if you’ll ever answer my question because it will surely open a can of worms, but here goes nothing.

A little background about me; I’m a 28 year-old South-asian female (think India) living in a large metropolitan city in Canada, comparable to Chicago. I’m medium-dark, 5’3″ and 135 lbs (down from 144 lbs but much bigger than my normal 125 lbs; I gained weight because I had depression and would binge). Yes, I’m not as fit as many other pilates/yoga crazed women in my age group. I have a pooch belly. Additionally, I have acne scars and uneven skin-tone (which I’m working hard to get rid of) and curly hair (not coarse, but smooth and manageable). I barely wear make-up and most days I go completely fresh-faced. My good points are; I have a natural 34-D and curves (i.e. a nipped waist no matter how much weight I gain, and since I’m apple shaped–no cellulite! Yahoo!).

Here’s the dilemma; I hang out with a few women who are of a different ethnic background (not Caucasian FYI, but I won’t say exactly which one) who tell me that I’m wasting my youth and that I should lose weight/straighten my hair/wear make-up/dress-up and go find a good man and end up getting married. It gets on my nerves sometimes, but I know that they do it from the good-will of their hearts. I’ve been asked out by a few men (around my age), 2 who were my friends (for my personality, I guess), and 1 random guy who was skating down the street (I wore some blush and lipstick on that day, so I guess make-up does make a big difference). I declined all three. Anyway, lately I couldn’t help but notice how difficult it is for females of my background to land a man. Although I did have some success and got asked out (yes, I declined, because I felt that I could shoot higher, thus I’m actively losing weight, getting rid of my scars and depression, and wearing dresses), it’s nowhere nearly as attention women of certain other races (esp. the ones my aforementioned friends) are receiving. Not only are these women receiving more attention, but they keep getting it from really high-quality men; youthful, high-earning potential, and good-looking.

So, my question is (finally); does your race matter in assessing what your league is? If so, how much does it matter? Are my chances with with men of a certain calibre much lower than that of women of other races (including Caucasian/Asian women)?
Age: 28
City: Toronto
State: Ontario

I don’t think I have enough of the experience or insight that you’re looking for on this topic, so I’m going to open it up to the peanut gallery.

Thoughts?

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45 Responses to “Does Race Factor In To What Your Dating League Is?”

  1. James Says:

    It does for me. I am not an equal opportunity dater.

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  2. Sarah Says:

    Joy, you seem to have already identified the things that may be holding you back, e.g. “pooch,” lack of makeup, etc. Some dudes are racist, sure, but I think all dudes read a lack of effort as a signal to stay away.

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    • mindstar Says:

      You race likely won’t be a factor in Toronto (I’m told it’s comparable to NYC in its diveristy). What will be a factor is that yoy may come across as condescending. You make a number of references to seeking “really high-quality men; youthful, high-earning potential, and good-looking” and acknowledge that you have rejected dates because you felt you “could shoot higher”. Joy some men will reject you for your ethnicity all men will reject you if you come across as thinking you’re too good for them.

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      • Greg Figueroa Says:

        I agree with you, Mindstar. To me she sounds pretty insecure and possibly not very pleasant. The truth is some guys will like or some won’t like. It’s called a preference. Let’s be honest, a pretty girl is a pretty girl if you’re aiming for certain type of league. I know Toronto is diverse enough to get some considerable interest.

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  3. black yoda Says:

    The funny thing is “race” was the last thing I thought about while reading your letter. It seems like you do have some other issues to deal with. Relatively speaking, ethnicity should probably be at or near the bottom of your list for now. Worrying about “race” at this point is like a cancer patient worrying about a hang nail. I’m not saying you’re terminal….lol….but it seems to me that there are more important issues to deal with, and your issues strike me as internal rather than external. Working on your body image is important. This is not the same as working on how you look although I understand the two can be intertwined. I was also turned off by your attitude about the men who did approach you. You came across like you think you were too good for them. Going on a date with someone isn’t a contract to be with him or her forever. You may find out you have a lot in common with a guy you initially thought was “beneath you.” You may think you are doing him a favor by going out with him, but he may be doing you a favor by giving you an opportunity to work on your social skills, to engage someone you might not think you’re compatible with and have a great time doing it. Some women don’t realize this, but the ability to do that (talk to people you’re not necessarily interested in) would make you even more attractive to all guys, including the ones you feel are worthy of you.

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  4. K Says:

    Joy–Just to give you some perspective, I’m older than you, weigh the same but 2 inches taller, of a similar background, less than perfect skin (but I’m religious about facials and always wear make up) and I always dress well and style my naturally curly hair. I have 3 dates set up this week and one for next week. Most of my dates are from online. I live in large US city and I feel I date at least as often as my non-ethnic friends. Sure some men aren’t going to date me because I’m not blonde, have a huge rack or whatever, but plenty do. In fact I tried to set up my blonde friend with another friend of mine and he said he doesn’t dig blondes. The men I do date tend to prefer brunettes with exotic looks (the women they have dated before me and after me have a similar look). Maybe being of a different background is harder, but living in two really big cities I haven’t found that to be a problem. But I do put my best foot forward so that I can have the best options to pick from. Men are visual after all. Not sure if that helps, but didn’t want you thinking looking different was some sort of automatic disqualifier.

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  5. Akirah Says:

    Here’s a story to skim thru: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/

    My opinion? Confidence is key. Do all of those things for you, not to attract a man of a certain calibre. I have found things tend to work themselves out after you start confidently loving yourself.

    And if your main desire is marriage, remember, you don’t need to attract tons of men. Just the right one.

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  6. naja matthews Says:

    Thanks for opening this one up. Hey brown girl. I must say ur concens are valid. I don’t think ur tummy nor your scars are the reason you’re not meeting the type of men you want. I’ll even look past what other readers may have percieved as self confidence issues. I think you’re justified to feel uncomfy as a brown girl in a white enviornment. If u want a white man, which it sounds like u do…then (ur friend is right) lose the weifjt, straighten your hair, get those teeth whitened etc. Does all this make u feel better? Probably not, bit ot will nix any preconceived assumptions that ur goofy friends have filled ur head with. I do think that white men (along with most men) tend to lean towards what they are used to. U are not fighting an impossible battle, but you are trying to journey into a land in which many women of color have found belittling, uncomfortable and not welcoming. In ur case, once u get past your friends silly close minded opinions, u have to put yourself out there girl! Why do u think a female peacock raises those pretty feathers so high….its to catch a boy! Hope this helps! Miss Naja

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    • Joy Says:

      FYI, my friends are NOT Caucasian, that’s why I put in the FYI in the brackets. A lot of people think that if you’re ethnic, you’re automatically up against the blonde-blue eyed Amazons. But that’s the least of the problems here. I live in an Academic setting. There are a lot of high-quality men (not just white, but many from my same background). Yes, there’s stiff competition from Caucasian women, in my arena, the biggest competition actually come from Asian (there, I’ve said it!) women.

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      • RC Says:

        Oh Joy…. How do I put this? :D Your race doesn’t really matter here, nor does your current weight. I think 90% here is ATTITUDE! First and foremost, stop looking at all women as some sort of competition or enemy. Want a guy of a certain caliber? Great! Look at a woman that makes him happy (no one cares if your hair is straight or not, please… I am not talking one night stand or a 3 week fling, look deeper). Now, find out something to admire about those women and strive to improve!

        I command you on getting fitter, dressing up, working on your skin issues. Most of us have been there but I guarantee you, you are being passed up by men because of your internal demons (and yes, some of them have external manifestations – like gaining weight while depressed, etc…). At the end of the day we are all visual creatures and are attracted to what we are attracted too… But you personally (and sounds like your so-called “girlfriends” too) are judging guys in a rather immature way. You want a guy with great job & earning potential, who is fit and charming with million dollar smile? Great! What do you bring to the table?

        Good luck!

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    • Greg Figueroa Says:

      Let me get this straight, her tummy and scars don’t matter, but her hair, teeth, and weight does matter? Inconsistent.

      OP’s attitude is the problem.

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    • hot FOB Says:

      @ Naja Matthews, FYI it’s male peacocks who have the pretty colors, female peafowl are called peahens and they’re fairly drab looking. Peacocks attract and mate with as many females as possible while the peahens watch the babies. That’s right, they’re polygamous sister wife birds. Just something to peck at.

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  7. fuzzilla Says:

    Zooming in solely on race (in this instance, anyway) seems like the very definition of “confirmation bias” to me, an excuse to deflect self reflection or give herself an “out” from examining her own behavior or questioning what she wants. Some people are found more attractive than others and thus receive more attention. This just in: Life’s not fair. True, you can hit the gym or see a therapist to be more attractive but have no control over your race. I don’t see a compelling case made that race is the reason for her dissatisfaction, I see someone overly focused on a man’s status who’s overly competitive with other women (damn those Asian chicks! < — sarcasm).

    I'm kind of surprised Moxie didn't say exactly that, actually.

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  8. Ken Besig Says:

    Of course race matters, but so does religion. I am Jewish, Ashkenazi, but I have dated Sephardi Jewish women, many quite dark, and the important aspect to me was that they were Jewish. On the other hand, I would not date an African American woman no matter how light her skin color was if she was not Jewish. The lady who wrote this query may well be a Hindu, Buddhist, or some other Eastern religion as well as dark skinned, and this religious aspect could be just as important and perhaps more so than her skin color or even her looks.

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  9. Kurt Says:

    Of course race matters. I am white and although white men are often willing to date out of their race, I know that a lot of white men prefer white women but will date Hispanic or Asian if those women are more attractive than the white women they can get. So being of the same race does add points in this situation. Also, most white men I know would never date a black woman regardless of how physically attractive she might be.

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    • hot FOB Says:

      Moxie did the right thing by leaving this up to the peanut gallery. White people, no matter how empathetic or progressive, will never truly understand what a person of color goes through in this society. Pointing to Kurt’s comment here, the underlying subtext is that he (a white man) is the apex of dateability, and in this country at least, it’s unfortunately true (for the time being, things are changing :).

      He states that none of his white friends would ever date a black woman “regardless of how physically attractive” she is. As an Asian woman, I appreciate his candor because most white (and even non-white) people won’t say this outright but definitely think it. People of color in this country often grow up with internalized racism and low self esteem no matter how strong the family unit or sense of self–the external culture at large is constantly reinforcing negative self image. Korean women mutilate their faces trying to achieve more “ideal” western features. Brazilians consider pale skin preferable to dark even though blacks are the majority in Brazil. These are not pictures of healthy self image. Meanwhile, others *cough* grow up with a sense of entitlement and superiority for no real reason other then the color of their skin because this is what society teaches them everyday. Most people never question anything and sleepwalk through inauthentic lives shackled to ideas and standards that were never theirs to begin with. Some people eventually wise up and start questioning stuff: Why is a vapid-looking skinny white woman in Vogue considered the beauty ideal? Why are greedy investment bankers who don’t give a sh*t about anyone but themselves considered successful desirable people?? Every other culture on earth is older and infinitely more interesting than white American culture but you wouldn’t know that living here–this is the hubris of America–for better or worse.

      Sorry if this comment seems heavy for this type of forum but this letter touches a lot of nerves the OP may not even be aware of herself. Back on topic, it seems like the OP needs to wake up and do some internal work; moreso than worrying about her lady pooch and whether or not blush makes her more attractive to guys she’s not even interested in dating anyway.

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      • Kurt Says:

        I didn’t intend to imply that whites are the apex of date-ability. I just mention the thought process of me and my other white friends.

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      • Pedro Says:

        Hot fob, that was awesomely said. Thank you.

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    • letty Says:

      we all bleed red and we are the human race! what’s your problem?

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  10. noquay Says:

    I am triracial, mainly Native, with copper skin, pretty Anglo-looking facial features, and blue eyes, best described as exotic looking. As educated Native men are perhaps 0.0005% of the US population, I will always have to date someone outside my race(s). Sometimes it’s (racism) a problem, some men pursue what they consider exotic. Some colleagues resent me because they think I got my position solely due to affirmative action (not true). I live in an impoverished redneck mountain town so my issues are those mainly resulting from gross incompatibility as I too am an academic. Location matters. However, I am also thin and wiry, am very active in the community, dress well and am put together when in public. I make it a point to meet men only from outside this area. We Brown chix often have to try harder and that does include looking good AND feeling good about ourselves.

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  11. kirk Says:

    Race does matter. It matters more than a lot of people would like to admit publicly. Toronto might be an international city but still shares a lot in common with many large american cities, where people like to say that a lot has changed since the sixties civil rights era. The reality is that for a lot darker skinned people, while the signs have come down and we can rub shoulders at the front of the bus, in important ways a lot hasn’t changed.
    I said all of that to say this, yes there are several factors which go into getting dates, but we are fooling ourselves if we say that race doesn’t matter that much. It matters a lot.

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  12. Carlos Nunez Says:

    I’m a dude, so my experiences may/may not correlate very much to your situation. I think race plays a fairly large role in forming people’s sexual and romantic preferences. OkCupid wrote a fairly infamous blog post on this topic a few years ago and essentially concluded that white folks should have zero problems with dating, white men are in hot demand by women of all races, especially Asian women and Blacks and Hispanic men and women play the (online) dating game on hard mode. I believe that this conclusion extends to “real-life” dating as well, though I don’t have any science to back this up.

    This isn’t entirely an individualistic fault. Which race do you see most frequently in ads, TV, movies, shows and most frequently represented in “beauty-defining” fields like modeling and fashion? What kind of “voice” do you hear most often on the radio? If I asked you to imagine someone in a nice suit right now, what color skin would that person have?

    That said, white men and women complain of being perpetually or permanently single all of the time, interracial dating and marriage is becoming more commonplace and I’ve dated all over the rainbow, though dating Asian women remains difficult. I previously thought that being black (and Hispanic) was limiting my options and my lack of a love life was society’s fault, but once I realized that I didn’t dress well and wasn’t the greatest with being social and personable and fixed these problems, dating became easy all of a sudden. (My OkCupid inbox used to be empty all of the time regardless of the messages I sent. After fixing those aforementioned problems and getting better pictures, two or three of every five women I messaged responded and having numerous dates every week was the standard.)

    You talk a ton about your body’s deficiencies. You almost spend an entire paragraph on talking about your skin and extra fat. Have you considered how you can make those work *for* you instead of how they’re currently working *against* you? Can you hold an interesting conversation with someone? Have you considered that what you wear might not be attracting the types of men that you’re looking for? Are your friends still single despite the “attention” they keep getting? With what kind of person do you want to form a relationship?

    Knowing the answers to these questions might give you peace of mind. At least it did for me. Good luck!

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  13. meh Says:

    yes race matters. some people are racist & they will never admit it.

    in your case race doesn’t matter as much as the other things you mentioned because you really do come across as unpleasant & entitled in your letter. the other posters have already pointed it out. rejecting men because you think you can do better? maybe you can’t.

    we all know men of certain races prefer certain body types. these stereotypes exist because on average they are true.

    5’3″ and 135 lbs, natural 34-Ds and curves? there are many men like me who think those numbers sound great. it may not be the race you are trying to attract. so kudos for trying to improve your appearance to attract what you want but that will all be overshadowed by your personality.

    (also a nipped waist is not apple shaped.)

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    • Jenn Says:

      One with a nipped waist can be apple shaped if weight is gained and fat is deposited in your stomach (thus the pooch belly) rather than your ass, which is what happens to me.

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  14. Craig Says:

    Does ethnicity (I hate the term race when discussing different types of humans – it’s a social construct with no scientific basis) affect one’s dating options? Of course it does. Anyone claiming otherwise is either naive or blind. As linked to by another poster above, OKCupid did a study of their members which confirms this. As a man of color myself, I have definitely drawn the shortest straw more times than I can count when it came to women due to that fact. I’ve even had women be flat out honest to my face about it – which in an ironic way I actually really appreciated ecause it opened my eyes to my reality. That said, it’s also been my experience that there are so many people out there who don’t care about such things, they mostly cancel out those who do. This is especially true if you live in a big city where people are accustomed to and comfortable with diversity.

    Which brings me to the OP. If you’re a non-caucasian living in Toronto, then you’ve got plenty of options. Canada as a whole simply does not have the issues with the whole ethnicity thing to the extent that the U.S. does. With this in mind, I don’t think the OP’s biggest problem is her ethnicity. I think it’s her appearance and her attitude. By her own admission she needs to improve her appearance. Well then hop to it. Hot is hot. I assure you that a south asian woman who looks like True Blood’s Janina Gavankar can get most any guy she wants of any ethnicity. Further, it’s hard to take someone seriously who complains it’s difficult finding a man after they’ve admittedly rejected 3 of them because she thinks she can do better. That right there may be the OP’s biggest problem. She has no concept of what her league is, so she incorrectly assumes her failure may be attributed to her ethnicity. I think she should go back and give some of those guys who did pursue her a chance. Here’s a thought for anyone who tends to always hold out for the next best thing in their love life: If you could be doing better, you would be.

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  15. Singles Warehouse Says:

    It’s a tough question. I agree with one of the comments here…it depends on where you are! For example in the UK, Londoners have every single race imaginable but Dorset is not quite as diverse. Could be an interesting study to look at thou.

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  16. Simon Says:

    As an asian male, it is very difficult to date. It is hard for minorities in my category to find someone outside their community and here’s why: the people we imagine ourselves with is influenced by the media that has our attention. In America, women on tv and in music tend to be women whom are white. Leading men are either white, black or latino. I am usually told, ” i’ve never thought of being with an asian man.” After years of analysis, i realized the leading men who are asian are either Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan. So, with that said, i had two choices: look within my community or hope to find a woman that is not my race and is open minded to date an asian man. With that said, you either have to look within your community or hope to find someone who wants you for you. Good luck. Love is out there.

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  17. Pat Says:

    If you’re looking for a white man, Joy, just move to NY. White men will date/marry Asian women no matter what they look like.

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  18. Speed Says:

    OP, I’m a black male and have dated black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Jewish, Christian, Atheist, and probably a few I’ve left out. I’ve also been dumped, shot down or rejected by others of these same women—maybe because of my race, maybe because of my personality or maybe because they had better options. Who cares? It’s called dating. Some people will date you because of or in spite of your race, others won’t. The reason doesn’t really matter. Even if you date exclusively within your race, it doesn’t solve all your problems, obviously.

    Just focus on improving yourself so that you can not only attract a wider number of guys (of whatever race), but improve your quality of life. And more than anything (and I say this as one person of color to another) never use race as a crutch, excuse or complaint. You won’t get any sympathy for it anywhere outside the Internet.

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  19. Chianti-Z Says:

    I don’t think race/ethnicity matters as much as overall health (think Halle berry) the OP knows what she has to do and is working on it. She is limiting herself by feeling she deserves a certain type of guy though. If she’s in academia, her attitude is the problem. I can’t think of a more open minded bunch. I think her depression isnt helping her to project her best self. And as hard as it may be to believe there are quality men out there that are not white. Just saying.

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  20. Treifalicious Says:

    Perhaps, but increasingly less so, from what I see. I have been seeing an increasing number of Black woman/white man couples around Manhattan (and other boroughs) this summer. When we see that we know the last interracial “taboo” has been broken.

    Also, I resent this tendency of white males to date Asian and Hispanic women when the white women they really want shoot them down. It reeks of a certain colonial, white supremacist attitude where white women are premium mating prospects while non-white women are second choice for the rejected and Black women are for the desperate. The whole thing is racist. People should be true to their attraction, which is often beyond “race”.

    How many people are in bad (or at least less happy) relationships and marriages because the person they were most compatible with was the wrong race, so they went with someone “racially acceptable” but not as well suited to them?

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  21. mindstar Says:

    Why are you assuming that’s it’s “a certain colonial, white supremacist attitude” especially in New York City? I’m a white male. I’ve dated Hispanic, White, African American and Asian women and the color of their skin or whether or not their hair was straight wasn’t important to me. What was important was their attitude and whether we enjoyed being in each other’s company.

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    • hot FOB Says:

      I have to chime in again here… I agree with Treifalicious’s comments. I’m an Asian woman and this excruciating sentiment has been casually tossed my way more than you can imagine. I’ve had numerous white men tell me they started dating Asian women because white women had repeatedly rejected them in one way or another (this was usually followed up with a stereotype about Asian femininity/ subservience/ domesticity etc). They were completely oblivious to the fact that they were speaking to an ASIAN WOMAN (and human being). Why? Hmm, ooohhhh I dunno, maybe it’s “a certain colonial, white supremacist attitude?”

      @mindstar, oh interesting, does NYC not have television, the internet, movies, advertisements, books, magazines, theater…? Were they the only city in the world that did not screen “The Last Samurai?” Unless you are an underground mole person who has lived off the grid for the past four hundred years or so, I find it highly delusional for you to imply you are immune from racism. I love how some perfectly nice and well-intentioned white people think they live in a magic bubble where they alone are charmingly untouched by that dirty ol R word.

      “I’m a white male. I’ve dated Hispanic, White, African American and Asian women and the color of their skin or whether or not their hair was straight wasn’t important to me.”
      So you want I should give you a gold ribbon??

      Discussion about race is important and I’m impressed it’s being played out on a dating advice site, a pretty intelligent one with intelligent readers.

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      • meh Says:

        “I’ve had numerous white men tell me…”

        then stop dating white men. nobody is pointing a gun to your head & forcing you to date white men.

        the city is filled with attractive & successful asian men.

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          She didn’t say she dated white men, just that she had conversations with them about dating.

          Bigger picture, though, I agree it’s a waste of time to bang your head against a wall about how some people suck. Find people who don’t and move on with your life (though I understand the desire to speak up when racism crosses your path unasked-for).

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          • meh Says:

            you’re right. i confused a bunch of comments in my head & made some wrong assumptions. i guess all the whining by women here about other women dating white men just got to me.

            you don’t want to date white men? great. don’t. those other women want to date white men? why do you care so much? it’s none of your business. stop worrying about who other women date.

            so white guys have better luck with some minorities than white women. big deal. that’s their league. they have figured out who they have success with. it’s like these women are whining because they aren’t the ones the white guys are dating.

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        • hot FOB Says:

          Thanks for your sage advice, I’ll be sure to remind my Cuban/Puerto Rican fiance :). And you kind of QED’d all over this mofo. At least your apathy is consistent “meh.”

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  22. Treifalicious Says:

    I say colonialist white supremacist because these men actually tell me that they are going to start dating Asian women after being shot down repeatedly by white women. It’s not that they met an Asian woman they were attracted to, it’s like they decided to pitch their product in a different market that they clearly considered to be second tier (or they would have dated Asian women sooner and not after making a decision to do so). One guy actually told me he that historically, wasn’t even that into Asian women physically, but after gong to Asia and having Asian women fling themselves at him he decided he would take advantage of his privilege as a white man to date Asian women.

    Ironically the Asian women he dated aren’t any prettier or higher in social prestige than the white/Jewish women he could have dated were he open to them.

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  23. Combating Privilege Says:

    Moxie’s quick to reach for her xoJane-approved, white feminist Pez dispenser of snarky turns of phrase to shut down “mansplaining” — “:male privilege”; “male gaze”; “slut-shaming”; “rape culture” — but her refusal to answer Joy’s question is further evidence that, in her world, #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen.

    Feminism without intersectionality is bullshit (Google it) — and so is Moxie’s admitted lack of insight for WOC and the alacrity with which she always dodges questions on race.

    Disappointing. Not the least bit surprising, but disappointing nonetheless.

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    • Andthatswhyyouresingle Says:

      Hot FoB said it best:

      White people, no matter how empathetic or progressive, will never truly understand what a person of color goes through in this society.

      The OP would learn far more from men and women of color than she could from a Caucasian woman who has never run up against the prejudices and difficulties that people of color have had to deal with. My frame of reference is limited on this topic, but not on the others you listed. That’s why I feel qualified to speak on them, as I have experienced them first hand.

      As for this topic, I thought it best to listen and learn than to quote statistics from an OKCupid blog as if that could take the place of actual, real life experiences.

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      “Feminism without intersectionality is bullshit (Google it) ”

      Ugh, do I have to? I just sat down at my pool with my first martini of the day and the nearest computer is in the gardener’s quarters. I suppose I can ask my butler to check for me. Or maybe you can just be a lamb and explain it while I tan.

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  24. Speed Says:

    I don’t hand out special considerations, empathy or benefits to anyone based on their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or other “group ID” (and to repeat, I’m black), and I don’t expect any.

    Is this world unfair? Absolutely. And, here’s the newsflash: it has been since the Stone Age. If you want something, you have to earn it, take, save up for it, steal it, buy it, or whatever. My father always said, “You need to be 10X better than any white person: 2-3X is not enough.” That was the best advice I ever got from him. Complaining about the unfairness of “white capitalist patriarchy” is not going to get you very far, unless you plan on teaching in California or becoming an XO Jane columnist.

    I recommend every person of color have a thick skin, high education, a will to succeed, capital (even a little can make a big difference in your life, trust me), and relentless personal responsibility. Plus, a dash of ruthlessness and the ability to navigate complex social or business situations. Get yours. It may sound cruel and unjust, but that’s the way it is. Don’t plan on the world getting fairer or Twitter making things easier for us. We’re not going to make law firm partner by pounding on the desk and quoting the latest Jezebel/Huffington Post/The Root report on inequality.

    [PS: I don’t think Moxie is “dodging the issue of race.” But like many white people, she’s probably cautious about being raked over the coals by the Politically Correct Police for inadvertently “saying the wrong thing.” Which is our loss, in my opinion.]

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    • Craig Says:

      My parents gave me the same advice that “Speed’s” dad gave him – and it was indeed damn good advice. If I had to try harder and be better than my Caucasian peers to acheive the same things they did with less effort, then so be it. That’s what I did instead of bitching and moaning about my lot in life. Turns out that having education, money, etc., is the great equalizer. Whenever a door was closed due to by ethnic background, another opened due to the socio-economic status that came with my career. President Obama is proof positive that anything is achievable in America by anyone – if you’re good enough to be better than the rest. The secret is to be better to the extent that it’s clear there’s no choice but to pick you. This concept is completely applicable to dating.

      For everyone you are attracted to who won’t date you because of your ethnicity, there are many others who will. Seek them out – and stop wasting time pursuing those who have no interest and never will. You can’t draw blood from a stone. It really is that simple. It’s easy to fall into the trap of using one’s minority ethnicity as a crutch, but don’t do it. I can guarantee it’ll never get you anywhwere. Never get bitter – get better.

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      • K Says:

        Amen! Got the same advice from my parents too and it has served me well in all areas. Also when I started focusing on the ones who did show interest and ignoring the ones who didn’t, life got a lot better.

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  25. Joy Says:

    Hey, OP here again. I find it funny that a lot of people are jumping down the Caucasian men/women route here. Truth is; I prefer men of my own race because my culture is super-important to me. I’m not BS-ing when I tell you this. I’m pretty white-washed myself; dress very Caucasian–think Kate Spade type of style, but I love my ethnic food, ethnic music (to the point that I almost exclusively listen to it). I get along really well with people of other races, and ironically I have really close friends of every race EXCEPT brown. Yet, I get passed up for girls of Caucasian or Asian background. You’d all be surprised to know that from my POV, Asian girls are even more desirable than white chicks. Asian girls can get the super-handsome upper echelon white guy to wine, dine, and marry them…something that numerous of other folks struggle with. So, in other words, white guys may be the pinnacle of the male dating world, but Asian women are their female counterparts.
    Anyway, none of this matters to me. I simply want someone of my background. Someone of my equal identity, looks, education, etc. I think that the advice in this blog is amazing because Moxie is the tell-it-like-it-is type of gal, so I’m pretty disappointed that she opened up the peanut gallery without even touching this issue.
    I guess what I have to do is what Speed/Craig suggested; be 10X better than others (hopefully in the looks department, I’ll get there…hehe, I do think I’m pretty good looking and it helps when I put minimum effort and get guys to stare at me…god I’m so conceited!), money, education, charm (must work on this even more), and confidence. I’m getting help for depression, but my help isn’t very helpful (idiot psychologist told me to go on pills when my psychiatrist told me that pills are useless and I need CBT; three psychiatrists, all said the same thing, yet idiot psychologist insists that I need pills. Pills never worked in the past).

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