Why Would A Guy Turn Down Casual Sex?

Name: Dorimale-enhancement
Comment: Why would a guy decline casual sex?

Dear Moxie,

I am somewhat puzzled by my recent experience. I met a man through a dating website. We had a great first date, then a second date a week after. He was out of my league, and had more red flags than Red Square on May Day, but I rationalized that since I have my share of red flags too, his red flags were not such a big deal. And I fell head over the heels.

He acted as if he is attracted to me (looks on the first date, steamy making out in his car at the end of the second date). I was somewhat surprised in hindsight that he did not suggest to go to his place to continue what we started.

As time went by I realized that the third date is not happening, and that I am being “friend zoned”. Perhaps he thought that I am crazy (indeed I pretty much lost my head about him and unfortunately it was showing).

Then I decided that I have nothing to lose, and propositioned casual sex. Which he declined…

While the obvious take-home message is not to act crazy (explaining to a guy on a second date just how much I like him in great detail was in hindsight a really bad idea) and not to text too much, I wonder what in general can make a guy decline such a proposition from a woman he is attracted to physically. The only explanation I could come up with was that a guy might be afraid that the woman will stalk him, but I have a good reason to believe that this is not the case in this particular situation.

Any ideas?
Age: 43
City: Suburbia
State: North East

 

You got turned down because the guy didn’t trust your motives. You told him you were falling for him or that you really liked him. Then, when you saw he was slipping away, you tried to use sex as bait to re-gain his interest. He knew what you were doing and declined, knowing it would almost assuredly end with you wanting more and getting more attached.

In other words, he was being a decent human being. Yes, he was probably also thinking of himself and weighed the pros and cons and decided to avoid this particularly sticky wicket or a proposition. There’s something about a person using sex as a last ditch effort to get someone’s attention that is overwhelmingly uncomfortable. There’s nothing hot about it. Just because he has a penis doesn’t mean he can’t exercise good judgment. Men and women can usually see through an act like that, especially older or more experienced folks. I don’t think he feared you’d stalk him. I’m not sure many men go there in their heads. I think he feared he wouldn’t be able to get rid of you easily. Those are two different things.

I think everybody is different in terms of just how much possible conflict or drama they are willing to deal with. Some guys might have taken you up on this. Some others would have done what this guy did and backed away slowly, fearing possible conflict and hurt feelings.

There’s various kinds of crazy person sex. One case is when both people contribute to the chaos and the relationship is intense and contentious and the sex is off the charts. Another is when one or both people are unstable to some degree. Then there’s your garden variety crazy person who repeatedly picks fights or flounces when stuff gets heavy or they don’t get what they want but usually returns. Crazy person sex is fun, sometimes amazing, but usually somewhat exhausting. Not the sex itself. The aftermath. The emails, the passive aggressive petty fights, the emotions, etc. You finally get to a point where you go, “Yeah. This isn’t worth it anymore.” It becomes too much effort to maintain and manage. The offer of casual sex comes with a lot of potential landmines, which is why some people turn it down. For some all it takes is one bad experience. For others it takes several experiences before they get sick of it. And some people never tire of it. Those people are usually “crazy.”

The reason why this situation has you so baffled is because you buy in to the myth that no guy will ever turn down sex because all guys think about is sex. Sex, sex, sex. That’s all guys want. Sex. Because they’re guys. And guys like sex. All. The. Time.  It’s a stereotype, and it’s a bad one. Not only that but having a high sex drive and liking sex is common amongst both men and women. Not just men.

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56 Responses to “Why Would A Guy Turn Down Casual Sex?”

  1. Selena Says:

    Moxie: “I think he feared he wouldn’t be able to get rid of you easily.”

    Yup. Pretty obvious.

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    • Nicole Says:

      And if the guy is attractive enough that the OP was offering casual sex, he’s attractive enough to get other women into bed. No need for him to risk getting involved with someone who he thinks might be hard to get rid of later.

      OP, you said it yourself, the take home message is not to act crazy. I think a lot of guys are automatically suspicious of women who suggest casual sex, simply because it’s not what they’re used to. So “propositioning casual sex” is high on the creepy/crazy behaviors list, right next to texting nonstop and gushing about being super into someone on the first date.

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      • C Says:

        I agree. If the guy wanted to pursue a sexual relationship with you (whether serious or casual), he would still be dating you. No way to say for sure what turned him off. I’m sure the crazy behavior didnt help but we arent in his head and wouldnt know with any certinty. For all we know, he might have gotten back together with his estranged wife… Whatever it was, when he stopped seeing you, his interest in you ended even if he still thought you had a nice body/face.

        OP – I understand where you are coming from. You figured, ok, long term potential gone but theres still a possible fun time to be had here. Thats not what he heard.

        Please, please dont ever proposition a guy who stopped dating you! It reaks of desparation. And no one, either woman or man, finds desparation attractive.

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    • Dori Says:

      Ouch, I meant to up vote it, but accidentally down voted. Sorry!

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  2. Tinker Says:

    Another possibility is that during the car make out something happened that gave him the impression you wouldn’t be compatible physically so he decided not to take it further. The upshot from all that’s been said so far is, no matter what his reason is, there is nothing you can do about it so you should definitely not continue to try to make this happen with him.

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  3. Eliza Says:

    Yes, desperation is very scary to either gender. It’s just very unappealing, when someone is grasping at straws to make something out of nothing–and so soon. Have self-respect and move on. As people mature, sex doesn’t govern their ability to reason…so waving that “sexual” carrot in front of his eye won’t be as effective as you are convinced it should be. And actually, when I have seen…with “some” women, the endless cyber-stalking (texting) and pursuing can be evoked merely by 2 dates! So imagine what sex would create in terms of “clingyness”?! I’m sure he figured, you were this attached after a merely make-out session…so why further intensify matters with a woman he has no intention of having a long-term arrangement with.

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  4. LostSailor Says:

    This isn’t all that hard. Why did he turn down casual sex with Dori?

    1. He was out of my league

    and

    2. The cray-cray: I pretty much lost my head about him…explaining to a guy on a second date just how much I like him in great detail…[and I] text too much

    When a woman comes on that strong on a second date to a man who clearly knows he’s way above her “league,” yes, a man’s mind runs not just to not being able to get rid of her after the sex, but to thoughts of stalking. This is a tailor-made scenario to invite stalking, and the trigger would be the sex. Whether Dori has “good reason” to believe that this in not the case, I would bet that the thought crossed his mind. Even if there were factors that would minimize the risk of stalking (he’s in law enforcement or the mob, for example), being able to deal with stalking doesn’t mean the prospect of sex is worth the hassle involved.

    A lot of men, especially over 40, will turn down easy sex if the risk-reward equation isn’t in their favor. Even more so if, as seems the situation here, the man has options.

    Even that was exacerbated here. He’d already decided that he wasn’t going to tap the crazy when she “propositioned” casual sex, so the offer only reinforced that he’d made the right decision.

    I don’t know that I agree with Moxie that “many” man don’t go to thoughts of staking when confronted by the crazy. Yes, mild crazy can be a fun sex, but if a man has ever been the subject of real crazy and/or stalking in the past, he’s going to be more wary. Because that shit can spin out of control real fast.

    Moxie is being generous in her response. And, Dori, you weren’t “friend zoned” you were dropped completely.

    And from the sound of it, I would have passed, too…

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  5. Howard Says:

    This one is really easy. The dead giveaway, “He was out of my league,”

    That’s what guys do when they have lots of options, turn down sex. Oh by the way, the prime reason women turn down sex all the time is because they have options, or think they have options. I can bet you that women with fewer options get less picky.

    I can assure you that I have turned down sex. I also know lots of guys who have turned down sex. I don’t know why some women get the idea that men don’t turn down sex. When a guy dumps a woman or fades on a woman, he is in essence turning down sex. This opens the door that a man would also do it before ever having sex anytime with a woman.

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    • Dori Says:

      “This one is really easy. The dead giveaway, “He was out of my league,” ”

      Sounds like a Catch 22. Why would I need to proposition sex to someone in or below my league? They are/would be (by definition) happy to have me, and proposition sex themselves.

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      • D. Says:

        Well, that’s rather the point, isn’t it?

        If you have to proposition sex to keep someone interested, it’s because they aren’t already interested. Really, in a healthy relationship where both parties are interested, sex isn’t treated as a football or a gambit of some kind. You just…have sex. Because you both want to.

        It’s not a guy chasing a woman trying to convince her to have sex. It’s not a woman throwing herself at a guy to keep him interested, either. It’s just sex, both parties want to have it, and so they do.

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    • C Says:

      If I were trapped on a deserted island with Newt Gengrich, I would not have sex with him even if there were no other options. Sorry but the number one reason women turn down a guy is because they dont find him attractive (or attractive enough yet).

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  6. Dori Says:

    OP here:

    Thank you, everyone! Your insights are very helpful.

    “no matter what his reason is, there is nothing you can do about it so you should definitely not continue to try to make this happen with him”

    Yes, of course.

    “OP – I understand where you are coming from. You figured, ok, long term potential gone but theres still a possible fun time to be had here. Thats not what he heard.”

    Yes, that was precisely what I was thinking.

    So the question is as follows. Let us say that I meet another guy out of my league, i.e. without long term potential. And I am really attracted (and not acting crazy), but he is a decent human being and does not want to “lead me on” / “pump and dump” whatever it is called.

    What is a socially acceptable way (if any) to offer a one night stand or another sort of an NSA arrangement under those circumstances?

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    • LostSailor Says:

      What is a socially acceptable way (if any) to offer a one night stand or another sort of an NSA arrangement under those circumstances?

      There really isn’t. You can offer it, but at best you’re looking at a friends-with-benefits situation, at the middle you’re looking at a fuck-buddy situation, and at the worst, it’s a one night stand.

      What’s the socially acceptable way to offer an NSA thing? Offer an NSA thing and don’t expect more. It’s harder to do than you think. Easier for men, less so for women. Don’t hate the messenger…

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        Yeah, I think if you’re stressing out that much about how to make a move, you want more than a one night stand. If you were truly okay with a one night stand, you’d be truly okay with never seeing them again, so what does it matter? It’s like Moxie always says about guys with the super-forward messages on OKC (or elsewhere) – they don’t care what you think, they’re just playing the numbers and hoping if they throw enough requests at the wall, one will stick. They’re fully prepared for and even expect a rejection.

        If I have a “seduction style,” I generally try to let the guy take the lead, but throw out plenty of hints to encourage him to. General flirty banter, inviting him over to watch a DVD, etc. As D. said, if it’s meant to be it’s kind of a mutual thing.

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    • Howard Says:

      Seduction. Women don’t need to say anything. Actions speak much louder. Get him to the right place where you can get close, a lounge with dancing works. A little alcohol helps. Shaking all your money-makers the right way on the floor, as he watches you dance, will get him excited. The following list are also good pointers.

      a gaze into his eyes as you melt
      hand on his chest with the right graze of your nails,
      hand on back of his neck close to top of his back,
      light grab of his strong upper hand,
      nibble of his ear.

      Think of it this way. If a guy asks you, “Can I kiss you?” your response would not be very favorable. It’s more about him building the right attraction and just going for it. So it’s a human thing that transcends gender. It’s just as pitiable for a woman to have to literally come out and verbally ask for a one night stand.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      And I am really attracted (and not acting crazy), but he is a decent human being and does not want to “lead me on” / “pump and dump” whatever it is called.

      If he’s out of your league, then he’s only sleeping with you because he has no options. If you’re okay with sleeping with someone who probably wouldn’t bother with you otherwise, then invite him back to your apartment after a date for a drink. You never explicitly offer casual sex to anybody. It makes you seem desperate.

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      • mindstar Says:

        I’ll hazard a guess that the OP will not be satisfied with merely a one night stand, NSA etc. Perhaps initilly but if she is really attracted to the guy that attraction will grow and make an only FWB situation harder to accept. At the end she will be unhappy.

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        • C Says:

          I think you are right….especially if she is gushing about her “feelings for the guy” before the end of date 2. I’m thinking that sometimes you just have to touch the hot stove to really internalize why you shouldnt.

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    • Eliza Says:

      If there is mutual “physical” attraction, then you don’t have to say anything at all, just don’t let your inhibitions get in the way–and do NOT have any expectations of anything “aftermath”…it is what it is – a friends-with-benefits–and/or one night stand…if that’s truly what you want.

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  7. C Says:

    Easy. At the end of the date say, “I had a really good time. Want to come back to my place for a bit?” This is easier if the date takes place close to where you live. If he is “too tired”, he is probably not into it.

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  8. yb Says:

    maybe you smell like feet!

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  9. Brian Says:

    “You got turned down because the guy didn’t trust your motives.” This is what goes through my head when a women offers NSA sex. It happens so rarely for men (atleast for me) that we wonder if it really is NSA or if there is a catch. I think it is important to convey to the men that it really is for you and that you are comfortable with it. I think having a bit more subtlety to your approach will help convey this to men.

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  10. Ben Iyyar Says:

    Oddly enough until today I have never seriously asked myself why I turned down an easy hook up clearly offered by a fairly attractive woman. Now that I think about it, I remember that I felt uncomfortable and even suspicious, and felt better declining than accepting. Which is strange since for most of my life I have trusted my feelings as my life compass much more than my logical thinking processes. So TWYS’s answer was spot on for me, in short, when in doubt, get out!

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  11. manwich Says:

    I think everyone is missing the point here.

    90% of inexplicable behavior in men can be summed up by the simple fact that there’s someone else. If an attractive guy is on a dating site, there are thousands of someone else. A guy wouldn’t make out with someone he wouldn’t have sex with. Had you been in the right place on date#2 he would have gone for it, but one of his other prospects advanced faster in the mean time.

    Let me explain internet dating from a guys perspective.

    You send out a dozen emails…..nothing

    You send out a dozen more….

    You send more, still nothing, then suddenly a bunch of responses come back at once. You pack a week full of coffee dates. Half of them aren’t as interesting in 3-D. A few of them fade after the first date. What you wind up with is 2 or 3 really awesome women juggling second and third dates. This is where it gets tricky.

    A guy has to play the numbers game because strangers tend to be unreliable, but a lot can happen in a couple dates. A stranger can become a prospective soul-mate in just a few hours of conversation, then bachelorett#2 suddenly as interesting any more. I feel bad when I have an awesome second date with a great woman, only to have a better one the next night. I know it sends mixed messages, but they are probably doing it too.

    I think people are more instinctively monogamous than we realize. Dating is a pain in the ass for guys. Once we find intense mutual attraction, our other prospects just aren’t worth the effort. It’s virtuous to be honest about this, but it’s so much easier to just fade, and leave people wondering.

    This guy made an effort to meet somewhere for a second date. Take that as a compliment. He could have been like “wanna come over, bring pizza”. He probably liked you, but someone else got there first.

    It’s a sad rat race, but you gotta just play the numbers till it all works out.

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    • C Says:

      Thats an interesting possibility. There are many reasons why someone may have fallen off the face of the earth. True some men (and women) hate dating and prefer to become exclusive and take a fledgling relationship on a test drive quickly. Others love dating and prefer to juggle 2-4 lovers for several months before making a decision. Others still will multi-date only until they are certain which lover they like more whether it be 1 date or 20.

      Theres no way for us to get into this guys head and know why he shut down the OP. Its safe to say that showing someone much more interest then they are showing you (i.e. gushing about your “feelings” and texting excessively) is generally not well recieved even if the guy initially was attracted to the OP.

      But sure, he may have shut her down because he met someone he liked better, or a hundred other reasons. One of my exes broke up with a woman he had dated for maybe 1-2 months because he was turned off by her heavy makeup and overpowering perfume. Sadly, the woman he broke up with was convinced she had said or done something to upset him when in fact, he just wasnt feeling it.

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      • Sarah Says:

        But she did do something: she wore too much makeup and perfume.

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        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          It’s not you, it’s me. Well, you’re ugly and you stink. But otherrwise? Me.

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        • C Says:

          DMN – too funny!

          Sarah – Sorry I guess I didnt communicate it well. My point was that you never know why someone disappears on you. It can be for seemingly the most inocuous of reasons. During the breakup, the poor woman was convinced she had somehow “ruined the relationship” because of something she had said during their last phone call.

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    • Howard Says:

      Entirely possible, but I feel the main thrust is that men are always a little suspicious when a woman comes out and verbally asks for a one-night stand. Maybe we like the chase. Maybe we have imaginings of being stalked.

      I tend to believe that we like Hollywood movie scenarios where things just happen. That is what, we are comfortable with. Things have to unfold like magic, where we get excited, our blood is pumping, lips meet and we are on fire. The whole verbal thing just kills all the spontaneity we have come to expect.

      Manwich, even with the subtext that you propose, the guy would still have sex if the OP had even a little clue of seduction. It seems to be a lost art among many women these days. Blame it on feminism or the craft not being handed down.

      There was this radio show, where a DJ proposed the concept that it was really hard for guys to always have the onus of initiating and seducing. To demonstrate how hard it was, he asked women to call in to demonstrate how they would go about initiating conversation with a guy and seducing him. The results were extraordinarily hilarious. The women were so bad, that everyone had a really good laugh.

      When it comes to negotiating dating, we humans like to assume that everything comes naturally to us. I am putting it out there, that our demands have become so refined, that naturally isn’t sufficient anymore.

      Once upon a time people didn’t have to go to mandatory school for 12 years to function in their society, but now they do. The requirements on what we have to know have gone up, and the only way we’re getting it, is by getting educated. Why would the dating arena be any different. There used to be a time where people were happy with the simple pleasures, not anymore. So to negotiate that minefield of what our dates seek, maybe we need to bone up on our skills.

      Men may surely need to stop thinking that they can buy a woman, by throwing her all sorts of nice things on a date. However, women have to stop imagining that the ball is entirely in the guys court when it comes to making things happen. Some skill and effort is required on their parts too. I don’t buy into the typical sour-grapes advice I see given to women, where they are made to believe things are fated from the outset.

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      • manwich Says:

        My moral spectrum my be out of whack, but I have no problem with casual sex. I would have a problem blowing a girl off after two dates with no explanation if she really liked me. I think once you have met someone in person and they have expressed interest, they deserve an explanation. Honesty is sacred. Sex is just sex.

        If I’m not seeing anyone, and an attractive woman offers me casual sex, I’ll be there in 5 minutes(with a Teflon coated Hefty 3ply condom in my pocket). As soon as I start developing a real crush on someone, my other prospects loose their luster. This is when I may be guilty of sending mixed messages.

        OP doesn’t seem crazy. Her letter is articulate and self-aware. The casual sex offer is perhaps a bit too bold, but he was fading before that. For her own self-respect, OP may want to tone it down a bit, but don’t go too far. Guys like being liked. Playing hard-to-get is over rated. He initiated a second date. He probably kinda liked her, he just liked someone else better.

        Someone else may have been more forward and gotten him home on the second date. Or, it could be a thousand other unknowns. Dude may be laying dead in a ditch somewhere with the word “Dori” half scrawled in the dirt. It’s embarrassing to fail for trying too hard, but we can’t get too cynical.

        This is why you have to keep meeting people and not get too attached too soon. The internet is a big world. Things happen fast.

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          **Or, it could be a thousand other unknowns. Dude may be laying dead in a ditch somewhere with the word “Dori” half scrawled in the dirt.**

          Ha ha…I like your style, manwich.

          Generally I agree – if you can’t know the reason why someone faded and it doesn’t matter either way, why not just go with the most ego-soothing of the possible reasons and then call it a day and move on? However, in this case, she cops to acting too forward, so there probably is a “one to grow on” about what not to do next time – not get too attached too soon or chase someone you know isn’t that interested.

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          • fuzzilla Says:

            Although if she already knew that, why bother writing in with a question? I think she’s feigning confusion to indirectly ask for some kind of outside validation/ego salve.

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          • C Says:

            I think the OP is genuinely confused. When we hear of (some) guys stringing women along just to get sex, why would a guy turn down “free sex” when its handed to him on a platter by a woman he finds physically attractive? She understands that her behavior killed the guys interest in a LTR but is baffled by his refusal of a NSA.

            I’m not sure how one can get any sort of ego boost from admitting to acting like a putz and throwing yourself at a guy only to be shot down.

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        • LostSailor Says:

          OP doesn’t seem crazy. Her letter is articulate and self-aware.

          Just because she admits she acted crazy doesn’t mean she isn’t crazy. Maybe not all the time, but in this case she sent signals that she might be. Confessing intense attraction on a second date is a huge red flag whether it’s done by a man (signalling loser/stalkerish/desperation) or a woman (signalling crazy/stalkerish/desperation).

          She went for the hail-mary pass when she knew he was not interested. She wrote in because, I’m guessing, in her experience it has worked in the past and didn’t this time and it was confusing…

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  12. D. Says:

    Moxie nailed the reason.

    When I’ve turned down casual sex, or decided not to press the issue further, it was usually for a combination of issues.

    1. I didn’t want to think of myself as the kind of guy who’d knowingly bullshit a girl by acting more interested than I knew I was. Like, things are escalating physically, she says she’s nervous about getting disappointed, and I, knowing that I wasn’t thinking this would go long-term, would say “Ok, we can take this slower, then.” Not long after, I’d usually call it off altogether. Why? Because I didn’t want to deal with her saying I led her on, and didn’t want to think of myself as the kind of guy who’d do that. Just what worked for me.

    2. If she seemed into me, but was claiming that she was fine with things being casual, I didn’t trust it. Either because I thought she was bullshitting herself, or because I thought she was bullshitting me, or both. All it takes is getting burned ONCE on this to learn your lesson, and I learned mine pretty early on.

    If you want to have casual sex, step 1 is “Be casual.” You can’t offer casual sex when you’ve already claimed — particularly early on — how into the other person you are. Any further offers of sex will simply be seen as a trap or at least an invitation to a whole host of headaches when you inevitably develop feelings for them in spite of saying “no, no, this can be casual. We’re cool,” and now he has to deal with getting out of things, which is uncomfortable.

    Dori, you’re in your early 40s. If you’re reasonably attractive and are looking for casual sex, there is a VERY easy way to do that: sleep with younger guys. In most cases, the younger guy is going to assume that due to the age difference, nobody has any illusions about where things might go. Everyone just accepts that this will be casual.

    Outside of that, I’d say that the way to avoid freaking a guy out in the future is to keep your excitement in perspective. Ok, he seems like an awesome guy by date #2. But for all you know, your interest will fizzle by date #4 when he tells you about his lifetime membership in the NRA, or his ardent belief that dolphins are people, too, or who the hell knows what. It’s fine to be interested, but it’s important to recognize that, especially early on, it’s all VERY tenuous.

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  13. John Says:

    Maybe the guy just has E.D.

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  14. Grizzly Says:

    “Propositioned casual sex.”

    I’m curious as to the actual words the LW said. If it was something like “Lets go have casual sex!!!” he probably took it as an indication that she’s desperate, has a few screws loose, or is a hooker. That’s just not something normal chicks do, and at 43 it makes the LW look even worse. If they were both 20 years younger, it might be different because people that age are impulsive, so it wouldn’t be so out-of-the-ordinary. Its NOT a stereotype that men think about sex all the time, but by the time we’re in our 40s we’ve been around the block and are a bit more circumspect about which holes we drill.

    “Out of my league.”

    If he’s out of her league but still takes her out, most likely he was in a dry spell. Think of it this way–if you were lost in the desert and came across a three-month-old bottle of chlorinated tap water, would you turn it down because its not expensive mineral water imported from the Italian Alps? No. This is probably why he “acted” (important key word here) attracted. He knew he could get something better, but if this is all that’s available he figured he might give it a shot and see what happens.

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    • D. Says:

      It could also have been that he’s looking for something specific, hasn’t been finding it previously, and so he’s trying to expand his horizons, gave this a chance, and then decided “Nope. Not what I’m looking for.” Who knows.

      I know that I’ve “acted” attracted to someone when I was “attracted enough.” Like, I find them reasonably physically attractive and not unpleasant to be around…….until something comes up that spooks me or I realize that my interest in them has reached a peak which is well below what I’m looking for.

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  15. Tinker Says:

    I don’t get the impression that the OP wanted/wants a one night stand, I think she wants an ongoing casual sexual relationship as a consolation prize if the actual relationship doesn’t take off. Which is fine, but the issue is you can’t make a guy play by those rules and even those not-so-high expectations will not necessarily be met. As long as you need the guy to act a certain way, even within the context of casual sex, he may sense that neediness and refuse to play along. My advice is not to explicitly propose an ongoing casual sexual relationship with someone you’ve never had sex ( or any relationship or friendship) with. Those encounters tend to be fluid and almost ‘rule-less’

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  16. Yvonne Says:

    Dori seems a bit tone-deaf to me. She acted all excited about someone on the second date, and he did not reciprocate. But rather than letting it go, she decided to pursue further and offer up a roll in the hay. That comes across as a bit desperate and clingy, and neither is going to win you any attractiveness points. And then she wonders how she can get the next “out of her league” guy to hook up with her should the occasion arise. Why isn’t she putting her efforts into men who actually LIKE her back instead of worrying about how to get a one night stand out of a disinterested party?

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  17. Dori Says:

    OP again:

    Thanks to everyone for the comments. I will address some.

    fuzilla:
    “Although if she already knew that, why bother writing in with a question? I think she’s feigning confusion to indirectly ask for some kind of outside validation/ego salve.”

    C:
    “I think the OP is genuinely confused. When we hear of (some) guys stringing women along just to get sex, why would a guy turn down “free sex” when its handed to him on a platter by a woman he finds physically attractive? She understands that her behavior killed the guys interest in a LTR but is baffled by his refusal of a NSA.

    I’m not sure how one can get any sort of ego boost from admitting to acting like a putz and throwing yourself at a guy only to be shot down.”

    I think both of you are right. I am confused and embarrassed, but there also is a grain of truth in the ‘ego validation’ guess. If you saw my earlier letters, I am on a big self-improvement quest. My first attempt at online dating was almost two years ago. I was obese, 190 lb, size 14 (height 5’3″). The pitiful results along with Moxie’s brilliant ‘My inner fat girl’ post were a much needed wake-up call. On my second attempt (160 lbs, size 12, very overweight) I was able to attract somewhat better quality guys, but still no one I was interested in. On my third attempt (145 lbs, size 8, marginally overweight) I acquired a lover, and we are still together. Sex is great, but otherwise he would not make a good life partner, so we are keeping our relationship open. Now is my fourth attempt (135 lbs, size 6). The guy I was able to pull was amazing. Ever seen a person who excels in everything he does? Admirable. Sadly he was full of red flags, which screamed of emotional unavailability. But he was so great and acted so into me (in person and by text) that I lost my head and reciprocated with similar ardor. So much wishful thinking on my part… No I did not screw up my chances for an LTR, I don’t think he is really available. But by not acting cool I did screw up my chances to seduce him. I did not want him as FWB, it would be too painful for me, because I was so into him. When I offered sex, all I wanted was a closure. I just wanted to experience this with him, so as not to wonder later how it would be. But I did not know how to communicate it to him. And perhaps he would not believe me anyway.

    LostSailor:
    “She wrote in because, I’m guessing, in her experience it has worked in the past and didn’t this time and it was confusing…”

    I never tried offering sex to a guy before, but I can imagine being in this situation again, which is why I wrote. I’ve also never had a ONS, and never been pumped-and-dumped. It is a first time in my life when I found myself desiring a ONS.

    The reason I am asking for advice is very straightforward: I don’t have relevant experience, which you (Moxie and posters) have lots of, and I do greatly appreciate when you share it.

    Yvonne:
    “Why isn’t she putting her efforts into men who actually LIKE her back instead of worrying about how to get a one night stand out of a disinterested party?”

    Because I don’t like most of the guys who like me. Therefore I am putting my efforts into self-improvement: weight loss, fitness, and therapy. And hoping to attract a guy I actually like and admire. But if a guy I like and admire does not like me back, I guess, hook up is better than nothing. Or maybe not? I don’t really know.

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    • Tinker Says:

      Dori- Congratulations on your body transformation! So many say they are going to do it but you followed through and kept it up. Despite anything else that is something to be really proud of!
      Regarding your newfound ons desire- If you already like and admire the guy so much, I don’t think a ons will be as fulfilling as you think.

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    • C Says:

      +1 ticker! Great job on the weight loss! Thats tremendous! I also love your effort in trying to transform yourself as a method of finding a better partner. I have gone through this myself (not the weight loss part but how I dress, present myself and what signals i send) and its been an amazingly enlightening, sometimes painful but ultimately very rewarding experience. The perspective I’ve gained has done so much to help me realize when i’m wasting my time and how much of appealing to a guy is in the image you present. Getting a dating coach is not a bad idea. It was super helpful to me. The quality of them men I have dated in the last year is 100 times better then the men I dated as a hot 20-something and now have a wonderful, cute boyfriend my age.

      I’ve never had a ONS either but have friends who enjoy not so much the ONS as a good fwb. One thing I’ve learned from my girls who like having a boy toy to hookup with is that its fine if they dont want a future with the guy but if they secretly harbor feelings even if they cranially know its just sex, eventually all hell breaks lose. If you want a hookup pursue it with the hot guys you cant see a future with.

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    • Nicole Says:

      Another +1 on the congratulations!

      I’m with C, if you want a casual thing (ONS or FWB) go have it with a guy you don’t see a future with. And that doesn’t mean a guy who’s out of your league or unavailable but you’d date if you could… It means someone you wouldn’t want a relationship with, period. Otherwise you do run the risk of getting attached and trying to turn sex into something more. Also beware of guys who will feel that way about you, and get attached in a FWB situation.

      “Because I don’t like most of the guys who like me.” This makes me wonder if there’s more going on here? It’s fine to be happy being single and not want a relationship. Also fine to want something casual and no-strings. But… If you do want something more, you shouldn’t “settle” for casual sex, that’s going to cause problems in the long run.

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    • Dori Says:

      Thank you, Tinker, C, and Nicole for the + 1’s and congratulations.

      I don’t think I can have a FWB relationship. I am just not wired that way.

      I have a lover. We are together for almost 6 months. Our relationship is passionate and emotional, but we have no future together. I would never introduce my lover to my family, friends or coworkers.

      I would love to have a real life partner, but I want an awesome one. I’d rather be single than settle. In the future this attitude may change.

      I am not currently seeking casual sex. I am seeking a LTR. It is not that I really wanted a ONS with the awesome guy I met. Obviously it would not be a satisfying experience. The hope was that it would provide closure, help me to stop obsessing over him, and get him “out of my system”. Alas it (ONS) did not happen :-(

      All I can do now is continue the self-improvement, enjoy my lover, and wait for the next awesome guy to cross my path. Hopefully I will be worthy of him.

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        **It is not that I really wanted a ONS with the awesome guy I met. Obviously it would not be a satisfying experience. The hope was that it would provide closure, help me to stop obsessing over him, and get him “out of my system”.**

        That…doesn’t work. In fact, the statement seems disingenuous. Fucking someone to “get them out of your system”? Especially when they were never “in your system” in that way in the first place? You can’t control anyone’s behavior but your own, and his having sex with you would not have “cured” anything.

        It’s great that you’re losing weight. That can help with the self-esteem issues, but it won’t magically cure them. Everyone wants to be attractive and feel wanted, but that cannot be your only motivation for self-improvement, or your victories will be kind of hollow and never feel like enough.

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      • C Says:

        “I don’t think I can have a FWB relationship. I am just not wired that way.

        I have a lover. We are together for almost 6 months. Our relationship is passionate and emotional, but we have no future together. I would never introduce my lover to my family, friends or coworkers.”

        Not to get caught up in simantics but I believe this is what a FWB is: a friend you sleep with but are not committed to and see no a future with regardless of the intensity of the connection.

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      • Chester Says:

        OP, does your lover know there is no future in this relationship you are having with him? Does he know you are looking for someone else….even one night stands?

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  18. Yvonne Says:

    Dori, if you spent many years being extremely overweight and overlooked by men, your self-esteem has probably taken a big nose dive. The guy you thought was so great, except for all the red flags? Well, the red flags are part and parcel of who he is, which makes him perhaps not as great as you think he is. Having sex with him might have ended up making you want him even more, and then feeling even worse because you wouldn’t be able to have him.

    I wonder about your statement, “…I don’t like most of the guys who like me.” Well, most of us feel the same way, but all you need is to find that one guy you do like, who also likes you. And no, a hook-up isn’t better than nothing if you really want more. Maybe that thinking is a hold-over from your overweight days when you felt unnoticed and not good enough. The inner work you do is just as important as your outer appearance. I know it sounds cliched, but believing in yourself is really the first step to attracting a great partner.

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  19. betts Says:

    you guys—i could have written this a few months ago. thanks to the OP for this letter. so obvious now. sigh.

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  20. Jon Says:

    Wow, you don’t think much of men, do you? You think you’re so gorgeous and irresistable that all men will have sex with you if you give them permission? Well, I have news for you. Some men do have morals. The 10 commandments says “Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery”. God said it, I believe it, and that’s final. He has not revoked any of these commandments. At least you had the decency to be honest about it, so he could dump you before you fell for him. Honestly, a guy tries to be noble and do the right thing and the girls gives him crap for it. The only way to win this dating game is not to play.

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  21. Guest Says:

    I’m apparently an attractive guy, I’ve been told I’m a “real catch” and I’m sometimes shocked when a beautiful women will flirt or make advances toward me. I’ve turned down subtle and direct offers of sex and dates on different occasions it wasn’t for the reasons I saw anyone mention here.

    I’m not sure how to explain it but it’s rarely been because something was wrong with the girl. I don’t know if it’s trust issues or bitterness or something else but if it seems confusing that I turn you down it’s almost certainly my own issues, and I probably feel weird and depressed about it later and regret and don’t understand why I did that. It’s the worst when it’s someone I’m really attracted to.

    I actually found this because I’m lonely and feel like crap and I’m googling related stuff to either try to feel better or to wallow deeper I’m not sure. It’s stupid because I have a date with a new girl tomorrow and got a text a few minutes ago from a wonderful girl I went out with last weekend. That’s pretty screwed up, huh? But here I am, feeling miserable and desperate.

    So yeah, I guess the moral is when someone does something really confusing like that don’t take it personally because we’re all damaged on some level. For some of us that means we’ll do stuff we don’t even understand ourselves that has nothing to do with you.

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