Guys Who Turn Down Sex Are Suspect To Me

Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): ALAQUESTION5
Comment: I’m new to dating, I’ve had one long term bf (7 years? and a fling with a friend (> 3 months). I kind of just stating going out wth them because it happened but I never really felt any zing in the relationship.

I’m now 28. Started dating (online) and met this guys I really clicked with, like to an insane degree!! I had the first date, we went for lunch and just talked, then wandered around town and he was trying to figure ways to extend the date. I think, to be honest I would have too only I had somewhere to be that evening and couldn’t cancel.

I’ve had another date since, we had dinner and he watched a film at my place. I’m wondering if that was a mistake? But it was nice, we talked, cuddled and things got a little more heated (no sex, but things got sexual) I presumed it was sex he was after but when I followed on he said, quite sheepishly no to sex as it was only the second date and sort of apologised for taking things further than they should go.

My best friend told me this was a bad idea, but I’m so flipping naive I really don’t know if I’m doing this dating thing wrong (I’ve never dated, all exes were friends). She told me he was probably just after sex, as he stayed over, while another friend says differently? It’s so confusing ha!

Any advice, have I well and truly screwed the pooch on this one? Also that reaction to him, like feeling something, was so foreign. I think I’m going bonkers haha :p though it’s all perfectly normal I’m sure :p
Age: 28
City: Hertford
State: Kent

Okay. There are a few points we can address here.

First, if you’re not ready to take things to  a sexual place with a guy, don’t invite him to your home. There are expectations that come with that, and most people with dating experience know that. Keep dates to public places until you’re ready to take things to a physical level.

Next, try not to schedule dates around other appointments. You don’t ever want to interrupt good momentum by saying you have to leave. Plus, it makes your date feel like they are one of several options, especially if you meet them online. It’s not a good feeling to hear your date say they have someplace else to be. It sounds like an excuse to cut the date short. You want to be completely present on a first date. Ignore all the suggestions that you keep a first date to 45 minutes or that you should leave them wanting more. It’s horrible advice, and I assume it’s only dispensed by people who have never actually implemented it. Also, I’m not a fan of lunch or coffee dates. There’s something awkward to me about those two scenarios. They don’t lend themselves to the kind of setting and mood I prefer for a date. YMMV on that one. Plus, coffee and lunch dates scream cheap to me.

meangirls10

Could he have been hoping to have sex? Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean that’s all he was after. Of course your friends are going to say that. That’s what happened to them and that’s how they connected the dots to explain why certain guys faded on them when they were in a similar situation. They aren’t you. You aren’t them. Not sure why these concerned friends didn’t tell you ahead of time that a second date at home was problematic. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didn’t know. Moving forward, don’t turn to your friends for dating insights. Most people have difficulty being objective. Their responses will often be colored by their own experiences, leaving you with varying degrees of conflicting advice.

mean-girls-19

but when I followed on he said, quite sheepishly no to sex as it was only the second date and sort of apologised for taking things further than they should go.

I’m assuming that there was more to this exchange other than he just stopped you from heading for the buckle on his pants. If he sensed your hesitancy, then it makes sense that he would then act like he didn’t want the sex anyway. Denying sex is a great way for guys to score points with women, and they know it. He knew he probably wasn’t going to get it anyway, so he decided to use that to his advantage by saying he wasn’t after sex and felt it was too soon, etc.

Side note: Guys who turn down sex are suspect to me. I read this article recently and I wanted to burn my own eyes out with acid. From the article:

I like to be in control. I’m a man who sets his own rules. I like to do things differently, so the longer you make her wait for sex and the more you tease her, the more she’s going to desire you.

The longer you leave her wanting you, the more she’ll need you and beg you for sex. I like to hold out as long as I possibly can.

It’s all very casual and fun. You light some candles, you talk, you hang out and you cuddle up on the couch. It starts to get late and that’s when you tell her she can stay over.

This is something I tell every guy I coach: If you want the greatest sex of your life, let her sleep over the first time without having sex with her.

Literally let her sleep over like you had sleepovers as a kid. Give her a pair of pajamas, spoon her and make her feel safe and comfortable. When you do that, she’s going to be aching to have sex with you, and it doesn’t matter what date it is.

stark

This is the type of stuff men are being told to do on dates. And, of course, the guy who write it gets alllll kinds of poontang, amirite bro? There’s nothing authentic about these tips. Notice that none of this advice is geared towards getting to know the woman better. It’s all about creating an illusion and building “tension” which is just a nice way of saying that men should mess with women’s heads so that they beg the guys for sex so they guy can have his ego stroked.

orlyrick

While I don’t think the guy in the OP’s letter was being manipulative, I do think he was saving face. That’s understandable.  I merely bring this all up because it’s important not to use a man’s refusal to have sex as evidence of genuine interest.

Thoughts?

 

 

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64 Responses to “Guys Who Turn Down Sex Are Suspect To Me”

  1. Sherry Says:

    Based on the letter writer’s phraseology, I assume she is in the UK. Perhaps, due to cultural variances, the dating game moves differently over there than here in the States.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3

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    • Chris Says:

      You’re absolutely right Sherry.

      Things are way more relaxed in Europe, when two people meet and like each other, then they might end up sleeping with each other, no matter if it’s the same night they meet or 10 years later. It’s all fine as long as both want the same thing.

      When I moved to America and encountered all these idiotic dating rules, established on both sides – girls AND guys (like the example Moxie showed above), I wanted to cut off my penis and become an asexual being. What a headache..

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    • Howard Says:

      Trying to put an American spin on this is definitely not the way to go. I have traveled all over Europe. The game playing in the US is just not the norm there. If you like somebody, you tend to have sex, and not worry about shaming on either side.

      Some guys do like to wait. Even if it’s a ploy, what’s the problem? Women have been doing the tease from time immemorial. If some guys want to join that club, I sure hope they keep it to their counterpart teases on the female side and leave the rest of us regular folk, who go with our emotions, alone. Trust me, the the female teases outnumber the male teases by plenty, so they will have their hands full.

      OP, you have no choice but take this guy at face value. Postponing sex isn’t a sin. If it were, most women would be in need of a confessor.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 5

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  2. NotSaidInKindness Says:

    Yo Mox, you ever think you gonna tie the knot someday? I think your audience would love to know.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 20

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      I don’t know. Could be in the next 14 months or so. Could be never.

      But it’s funny that you ask, as I just got home from the gym and ended up running in to the senior couple at the cafe of the supermarket. They were probably in their late sixties. They were talking like they were a couple. I asked them if they were married and they said no, and the woman rolled her eyes and said, “No need for that.” As we chatted she said that she up and walked out of her 30 year marriage at 51, has dated here and there and has settled into something simple with the man she was with and doesn’t regret a minute of it. She also said she’d never live with anyone again. It was a really interesting conversation.

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      • The D-man Says:

        I’ve encountered this attitude a lot among divorcees. I’m sort of the same way. Though sometimes I fantasize about marrying again, it’s not core to my identity.

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      • Howard Says:

        I thought about that for a minute, but I was too domesticated for that. I like loving and loyalty and sharing. Different folks, different strokes.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

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  3. Lisa Says:

    I didn’t get the impression the OP was hesitant to have sex or regretting her decision to invite the guy over to her place. I think she was OK w/ the pace and then stumped and frustrated when he declined.

    I think the only way to know about this one is to ask. My guesses are that he has an erectile dysfunction issue and is trying to forestall the inevitable, that he feels conflicted over religious beliefs, he didn’t have a condom, had a flare up, he was trying to tease her (for good or bad reasons).

    Women do this a lot. But I’ve never heard of a guy doing it.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8

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  4. D. Says:

    Some guys, apparently, are happy to manipulate a woman for sex. Other times, they turn down sex for entirely legitimate reasons. Maybe they aren’t into casual sex or are particularly religious (which may warrant its own side-eye, depending on your attitudes about all that, but at least isn’t about messing with your head).

    One reason I’ve turned down sex, though, has been because I sensed the woman was using it as a gauge of whether things were going to get serious. If a woman had told me early on that she doesn’t sleep with guys unless she thinks there’s long-term potential, I wouldn’t sleep with her if I wasn’t sure that there was, myself or if I knew there wasn’t. Basically, if she said something like “So, I don’t do casual sex, and only do sex when it may be heading towards a relationship,” and I knew it’d be strictly casual for me (e.g., saw no potential future with her), no sex tonight. No problem, I’ll live.

    I’d usually do this for two reasons. First, moving forward anyway under such circumstances strikes me as a shitty thing to do. As I saw it, it’d be a form of lying, and I didn’t want to do that. So, I’d say “No problem,” and then usually break it off in the near future if my mind wasn’t changing in another date or so. Second, this was a form of “self preservation” for me. In addition to not wanting to feel like I’d lied to someone, I didn’t want to deal with the fallout when I’d inevitably break things off. It was just easier and cleaner if I said “Ok, no sex then.”

    The bottom line: It wasn’t a manipulation. It was, however, an indication of my interest, or lack thereof.

    I’m not saying that’s what this guy was doing, mind you. I’m just saying it’s another possible analysis, for whatever that’s worth.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 1

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  5. Filmster4 Says:

    I agree that asking someone over to your place sends the sex signals; but if you are this guy and being invited over to the girl’s house and you aren’t cool with having sex after knowing someone for 48 hours…make sure you mention that to her, open honest communication is the best policy.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

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  6. manwich Says:

    My advice to the OP;

    Best case scenario: Is this guy Catholic? Does he have a feminist older sister? Is he a bit shy? Inexperienced? Some well-meaning nice guys are just victims of bad advice. Some guys carry a lot of guilt about sex. They get brainwashed their whole lives to not be the kind of jerk women want to have sex with. If future dates go well, hang on to this guy. Bad seducers make good husbands. A man who doesn’t have the guts to go for sex on a second date, will never cheat on you.

    Worst case scenario: You said you felt an instant connection. When I hear women say this, the story often ends in cheating. Is he charming, and confident? Does he carry himself like he has experience dating? This guy is either bashful about sex, or he isn’t. If it’s not shyness, then yeah, it’s odd. Maybe he got far enough to realize he just wasn’t feeling it. Sometimes when you’re not over your ex, it doesn’t become clear until you get naked with someone else. Maybe he has issues bigger than a little shyness. In the closet? Herpies flair up?

    The trick is to see what happens next. If he keeps on perusing you than nothing to worry about.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

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  7. manwich Says:

    Turning down sex as a strategy to get laid is completely stupid. It’s like quitting your job to save money.

    Some women are very boldly sexual, but they want a man who is just as bold. If a guy doesn’t come on strong with this type of woman, he seems week and insecure. That’s not sexy in a man. Some women are prude, or have hang-ups about sex. They need a guy to be bold because they aren’t gonna make a move. Some women like sex, but are afraid to ask for it. Most women are used to saying “no” if they don’t want it, and just accept that guys like sex. Some women love to complain about how all guys want is sex, but complaining is just covert bragging. Women want to be seduced. They expect it. They feel insulted if we aren’t jumping down their pants. No means NO!, but anything else means make out for 20 more minutes, then have sex. Trying to be that one guy who isn’t like that is a dead end. Obviously from the name of this post, it sends the wrong message.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3

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  8. manwich Says:

    I have mixed feelings about Moxie’s advice about long first dates. I’d say good advice for women, but bad advice for men.

    My experience has been that for a guy, keeping the first date short is very effective; Especially with strangers from the internet. I think there is a dangerous awkward phase that can happen before sexual intimacy is established, but after you’ve run outta things to talk about. Awkward silence is a turn off. Awkwardness is the sum of all cock-blocks. It’s a man’s responsibility on a date to erase all awkwardness, and make sure a woman is comfortable. Any awkwardness or discomfort will be held against the man. Women judge us by how they feel around us more than our looks, or anything else about us. Once you are having good sex regularly, you can float by on sexual chemistry. Silence isn’t awkward with a good lover, but the first couple dates are hard.

    Some women literally count dates and won’t have sex before #3, #5, or whatever. They aren’t counting the number of hours. Long dates aren’t doing you any good. Psychologically, I think events and activities make an impact. We remember what we did, not how long we did it. A three hour conversation sitting in one spot doesn’t leave any more of an impression than a two hour conversation. If you have a drink at the bar, then one on the patio, it feels like you did two things together, and a goodnight kiss feels natural. If you are going to have a marathon first date, then make sure you are going places and doing things, not just sitting in one spot letting conversation get stale.

    The other issue is the whole “unavailability”, “hard-to-get” game. I don’t like playing games, but that stuff can have an effect on women. A little bit of mystery is sexy on a guy. If you don’t believe me, just read EVERY ROMANCE NOVEL EVER WRITTEN. This crap however does not work on men. Some women make the mistake of thinking what works on them works on guys, but men are different like that. The image that a woman has other options is just not appealing. A guy who has other options is sought after. A girl who has other options is just kinda gross. I’m not condoning this double standard, but that is honestly how men’s brains are wired, especially younger, less experienced guys.

    Jealousy doesn’t work because it seems “slutty”, and hard-to-get doesn’t work because men are suckers for flattery. We want to be liked. It’s cute when girls are nervous and bashful and seem to like us. It’s a turn off when they are cold and aloof and seem to have better things to do.

    For guys, it’s good to be the one to plan and initiate the date, as well as the one who calls it a night. For women, ignore any advice to be illusive, or hard-to-get. Just go on the date a guy takes you on.

    I plan first dates around 8:00 on a week night, so it doesn’t wear out the welcome, but I don’t need some silly excuse to disappear. “I’m tired, I work early” isn’t a ploy, it’s the truth. A couple beers over an hour or two is enough to decide if we want a second date, then we can have an adventure.

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      I agree with some of this but Jesus. Can we have a moratorium on guys coming here to announce what “guys like.” Some of the shit getting posted here is really specific. Not every guy wants to date your particular ideal of a person. Just fucking speak for yourself and let others figure it out. Is this concept really beyond you? Every guy doesn’t like what I like. If they did? I’d tell you all to lock up your daughters. Well, maybe lock up your daughters anyway.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Ha sorry that last part reads way pervier than I intended. You get the point.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

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        • manwich Says:

          ” Can we have a moratorium on guys coming here to announce what “guys like.”

          Isn’t that the whole point? Isn’t the goal here to open a dialog and get at the center of this whole mystery? The human mating ritual is fascinating because it is so counter-intuitive and politically incorrect. Our gonads didn’t come with instruction manuals. Bad advice sells just as well as good advice as long as people will pay to hear what they want to hear. I like this site because it is refreshing to hear it like it is. I wanna hear what women really think. I wanna bounce my ideas around and get a response. If you disagree, give me a red thumb, or give me a succinct counter point, or ignore me.

          “Some of the shit getting posted here is really specific. Not every guy wants to date your particular ideal of a person”

          No, it is not at all specific. I’m speaking in very general terms. Generally it’s a bad policy for women to play aloof, hard-to-get, and unavailable. Do you disagree? Generally, I think it’s a good idea for a guy to cut the first date short before it gets stale, and to save some anticipation for the second date. This is simply my advice from my experience. Take it or leave it.

          “ Just fucking speak for yourself and let others figure it out. Is this concept really beyond you?”

          Geeze, lightn up Grumpy Smurph!

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

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    • Goldie Says:

      A girl has other options is kind of gross? What’s the alternative, a girl who had no options until she finally met you? Not gross at all. I get it.

      Personally, I assume that by default, everyone I’m dating has other options, and they assume the same about me. There’s no need to mention those other options, but we both know they exist.

      If a guy plays unavailable and hard-to-get with me, I am going to assume that he’s either not interested, or too busy, or both, and as such not worth my time and effort, and will move on to the next one, or continue with my happy single life – whatever suits me at the moment. Chasing after a guy who makes himself scarce isn’t high on my list of favorite things to do. Then again, I don’t read romance novels, so what do I know?

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      • C Says:

        Not to speak for Manwich but I think he means that a James Bond type of man who is constantly out with different women becomes intriguing to other women strictly due to his popularity. While if you reverse the scneario, men would not be intrigued by a woman who is constantly dating many other men. At least thats how I understood it.

        I wonder if thats totally true though considering how popular porn stars are. Perhaps he means from an emotional stand point rather than a sexual one….?? Dunno.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

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        • Lisa Says:

          You can usually tell from his looks and basic decorum whether or not a man is popular w/ the ladies. I don’t need actual proof of his desirability, in the form of knowing he is out w/ multiple women (when he could be spending time w/ me instead). Not intriguing. Just too much work.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

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      • manwich Says:

        “Gross” was a bad choice of words. I don’t mean to support any kind of slut shaming, but it’s naive to ignore that it exists. Some guys are silly and insecure about this. They want to think they are the biggest, best, or only lover a girl has ever had. Mature people accept the fact that we all have options, and only exclusive relationships are exclusive, but mature people don’t play games. I don’t judge a woman for having a past, but it annoys me when I can see through their games. It’s so transparent. I don’t date guys, but if I did, I’d probably find their games annoying too.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

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        • Crotch Rocket Says:

          “I don’t judge a woman for having a past,”

          Agreed; I’d be more concerned if she didn’t have a past. Still, there is a difference between knowing that she has a past and having it shoved in my face. For instance, don’t say you liked it when your ex did X; just tell me you like X (I won’t ask how you know that) and you want ME to do it.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

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    • D. Says:

      Eh, I don’t know that there’s a single silver-bullet formula for good early dates. Towards that end, I’d say figure out what your strengths are, and play to them. If that means a longer first date, go for that. If it means shorter, go for that.

      Personally, the only dates where I ran into awkward silences were dates with people who didn’t have much to say. I figure if you can’t keep a conversation going early on…there won’t be a later on.

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  9. Goldie Says:

    Here’s another version of what may have happened. I met a guy recently and we really hit it off. Last week on our third date, conversation veered towards each other’s dating history and he told me he’d been actively dating on several online sites for over a year. Meeting a lot of women, having fun etc. He didn’t sound like he was ready to settle down with just one, so, depending on whether I got that right, next date might be our last, because I don’t need a new FWB – but I digress. In that same conversation, he brought up the subject of sex. He said that with his dates, he postpones sex for as long as he can each time he meets someone new. Why? – so he doesn’t end up with an attached woman on his hands. I would imagine that, while he puts it off as long as possible with woman A, he’s probably getting mad action with women B, C, and D. It’s no sacrifice on his part. Just throwing this out as another reason why a man can say no to sex at an early stage.

    Or he could be, you know, an honest dude who fears he can get attached himself and so cannot do casual that early on.

    I guess what I just said is the OP’s guy might be a player, but then again he might be a good guy who takes things seriously. Not terribly helpful, huh?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

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    • D. Says:

      That logic sounds…flawed. I tend to think that the earlier sex occurs, the less seriously it’s treated. First or second date sex? Doesn’t mean anything other than both parties wanted to have sex and were otherwise having a nice time on the date. Third or fourth date sex? That’s where the expectations of “We’ll see each other again” come in. If you don’t want to deal with someone getting attached, why wait until they’re more likely to already be attached?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

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      • Goldie Says:

        “If you don’t want to deal with someone getting attached, why wait until they’re more likely to already be attached?”

        TBH, I’m wondering about that one myself! I feel the same way you do – if I made it to date five, then I’m already attached to the guy in some capacity, sex or not. This was this guy’s strategy, however. Based on the comments I’ve read on many sites from many women who claim they develop a strong attachment just from having sex, there might be a grain of truth in what he’s doing.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

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        • D. Says:

          I mean, at a certain point, you’ve gotta figure that everyone’s a grownup, and if someone can’t handle having sex too soon, then that’s their problem. Like I said, first or second (and sometimes even third) date sex doesn’t mean anything. It’s not a binding contract, it’s not a guarantee of future dates. It’s just sex after a nice evening.

          I get the notion of not wanting to deal with someone getting attached after that, but unless he means that he waits until he’s more attached, too, then it seems he’d just be compounding the problem by waiting. I’d rather be able to say “Well, what’d you expect? It was only a first/second/third date!” than drag things out for multiple weeks…and then decide “Nah, not interested.”

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    • C Says:

      I thought it was an interesting observation. Many people might do the same thing but due to different motivations and vice versa.

      As for this guy…he keeps going on date after date after sexless date so the woman doesnt get attached? What? This is really baffling….so if he thinks sex = female attachment and he has a morbid fear of female attachment, then why date at all? Whats the benefit of delaying sex? Is he just looking to screen out women who show signs of attachment?

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      • Nathan Says:

        I think it’s reasonable for anyone to choose to wait because they want to know someone better, or want to be careful about STD statuses or just aren’t ready yet. The fear of an “attached woman” thing, though, is a red flag. Makes me wonder if he’s been really burned in the past, and is going to the opposite extreme.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

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        • D. Says:

          Something else I hadn’t considered, but which just hit me — it’s possible he was just sussing out whether Goldie was up for casual sex. Like, if he floats the “Oh, I hate when women get attached so soon,” and she responds with “Eh, I don’t have that problem,” maybe he figures he’s got a shot at casual sex.

          I don’t mean this as any kind of disrespect to Goldie, of course. I don’t know her at all. I tend to think that kind of thing has far more to do with the person asking the question. There were periods, particularly when I was freshly out of a relationship or was really just looking for casual sex (either in general, or from the date I was out with), where I’d do something like this.

          I’d sort of steer the discussion towards the expectations people develop in dating, and mention something like “I mean, I don’t care what happens on a first or second date. It doesn’t mean anything” to see how the other person responded. It wasn’t just idle conversation. I was gauging the woman’s response to see how she reacted, and see if — were things to progress physically — she’d blow up at me if they stayed casual.

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          • C Says:

            I think you are right in that this strange conversation topic was intended to feel out Goldie.

            Gotta add that this guy must have no game. Seriously, theres a way of feeling out a woman for a hookup without coming off as a commitment-phobic borderline nut. How about just saying, “I’m not looking for a relationship. Want to come back to my place?” Or my other favorite, “I’m going to be transfered to Tanzania in a couple of months. I need to go home and feed my pet iguana. Want to come with me?” That usually works.

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        If he really liked the woman and spent a lot of time with her, wouldn’t he…want her to get attached?

        Also, his audience for this story is a woman he’s on a date with, so right there, the whole thing is suspect. He’s got an angle, he’s not just telling his bros at poker.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Why? – so he doesn’t end up with an attached woman on his hands.

      That was his way of telling you he wasn’t looking for commitment. He’s not actually holding off on sex with anybody. It really is pretty simple once you stop connecting dots that don’t exist.

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      • Goldie Says:

        Sigh, I feared as much… next. Not that I insist on commitment, but I already have enough going on in my life and don’t have time for this dude right now, unless he’s serious. Thanks, Moxie.

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  10. Snowflake Says:

    I agree with everything not just because, I agree from my own similar experience.

    I have stopped going to my gf’s or any friend for dating advice because as Moxie has said and from my own experiences with my friends they all give me advice based on THEIR experiences. And it is never the same what they go through vs what I am going through.

    I too have dated guys who use sex as a tool for manipulation. NEVER again! Red flag, run for the hills!

    Moxie – about the couple you chatted with, all I can say is that is exactly what companionship should be like. What works for the two people involved. They are living up to what their needs are not what society dictates.

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  11. Nathan Says:

    Hey Moxie. You ever think that perhaps some men don’t leap to have sex because they’re aren’t ready or comfortable enough with a woman yet? Or is that only something women do?

    I don’t have any idea if the guy in the OP’s story was playing her, or being genuine. But I do know that not all men are horndogs pulling out all the stops to get in a woman’s pants as soon as possible.

    And for those who want to disagree with that last statement, here’s another point: I don’t think the majority of men dating out there are savvy enough to be reading about and employing dating advice like the piece Moxie cited in the first place. Those of us who are regulars on these forums are in the minority.

    The average guy is just doing whatever he learned through trial and error, from talking with his buddies, or from pop culture. Sure, he may have read a few things about dating in his day, but it’s doubtful he’s up on the latest game tactics or whatever.

    And finally, I have to wonder how many guys would even take the advice column Moxie cited seriously. Like Manwich, I think the whole idea of turning down sex to get sex is ridiculous. If you’re whole goal is just to get some, why would you bother delaying, just out of the possibility that she’d want you more? Seems like a lot of work for something that might backfire on you anyway.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      You ever think that perhaps some men don’t leap to have sex because they’re aren’t ready or comfortable enough with a woman yet?

      I think most adult males don’t go over to a woman’s apartment on a second date just to watch a movie. Bully for you that you’re so sensitive and special.

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      • Nathan Says:

        You ever change your mind in the middle of something for whatever reason? Even if this guy went to her place thinking they’d sleep together, he may have been turned off by something while they were making out. Or maybe he decided he wasn’t ready yet. Or maybe it turns out he wasn’t that into her. You act like if he doesn’t go through with it, there’s got to be something wrong with him. Or he’s gaming her. But there are plenty of other possibilties. Another being excessive drinking involved, which could have left him sexually impared and also unable to drive home. Go ahead and think the worst of the guy here, but the truth is we don’t know and unless the OP gives more details, we probably won’t know.

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        • ATWYSingle Says:

          I said in the post that, even if he did want sex, that wasn’t a bad thing. I also said I didn’t think he was being manipulative. I said I felt he was saving face. I think she was conflicted about things progressing quickly and expressed that, so he said that he didn’t want to have sex any way or that it was too soon so he could save face.

          As for all those reasons you listed? Those are exceptions to the rule, not the rule.

          You’re internalizing this.

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    • Crotch Rocket Says:

      “perhaps some men don’t leap to have sex because they’re aren’t ready or comfortable enough with a woman yet? Or is that only something women do?”

      I’ve never heard a guy say he turned down or delayed sex because he wasn’t “ready” yet. I do sometimes decide having sex with a gal would be unwise, but that’s all about how I think SHE will react to it, not about me. The very concept of being “ready” baffles me.

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  12. Aela Says:

    OP here.

    Okay to clarify a few things,

    1. When I said things got heated, basically he “went down” on me, trying not to be too crude about it. That’s when I assumed he wanted sex, but nope.
    2. He did not have an erectile dysfunction so that ones out the window or anything else of concern that could be seen.
    3. Preceding this there was a lot of talking, cuddling, and kissing on the forehead, which was nice
    4. We were together and awake for about 12ish hours that second date before it happened so yeah a lot of talking :-)
    5. I’m not experienced with guys, and have only been with very few but I didn’t feel uncomfortable with what happened after and I’m really not the kind of person to rush into things which is why this took me by surprise.
    6. The next morning he didn’t run off, or push for any thing else, we just cuddled, kissed etc etc
    7. I wouldn’t say I was conflicted, although I’m glad it didn’t go further because like I said I really like him and would save that for when it would mean more.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      You’re skipping something. So he went down on you and then said, “Nope. Not having sex with you!” or was there some discussion in between? What preceded the part where he said he didn’t want sex? Was it after you said something?

      Normal guys aren’t going down on you then denying sex.

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    • BostonRobin Says:

      Is he transgender? Did you *see* him up close? There are prostheses that are extremely convincing, so don’t laugh!

      I also feel like we’re missing some information, either from you or from him. Good luck!

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  13. Aela Says:

    Not really skipping anything per se, literally that, we were kissing then he started kissing other places, neck, body, legs, did that then cuddled and kissed me again. I then figured he wanted me to return the favour/wanted more so I kissed him back and got on top, kissing him etc and he just said no sex as it was only the second date and said he’d already gone further than intended as he had meant to stop at teasing but got a bit carried away. I could tell he was interested, he was pretty hard, but he didn’t want rush it or so it seemed. I don’t think I’m forgetting anything.

    I won’t deny it was fun but like I said, my friend saying I could end up getting used freaks me out as I really like him / am comfortable with him (before and after the going down business).

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      He didn’t even let you reciprocate?

      There’s something off there. Sorry, but this isn’t a case of not wanting to rush things. He either has a girlfriend or an STD.

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      • Aela Says:

        I did sort of reciprocate after he said no sex, it’s just a bit embarrassing to say haha, I gave I did return the favour. He didn’t push for it.

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        • ATWYSingle Says:

          Can you please be more clear about the details so that we can get a better understanding of this. The whole,, “Well, he kinda did you know ” is making the whole thing hard to follow. We’re all adults. You can say you jerked him off.

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        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          So, you had oral sex. That counts. Other than his explanation for not going further, which rings untrue, there’s nothing unusual about this from my perspective.

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        • Nicole Says:

          I’m wondering why you think you “screwed the pooch on this one?” It sounds like you both had fun, and ended the night on a good note. Maybe he was tired? Or any one of a million reasons already suggested here. But while a guy saying no to sex is unusual, I don’t see why it would make you think everything is ruined, if nothing else weird is happening. Have you talked to him since then?

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          • Aela Says:

            We have been texting and that, I only think that because of what a friend said, i.e. He would probably think I’m easy although I’m not sure if that’s true as my dating experience is limited. That’s why I’m asking for opinions, it’s all learning :-)

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          • Nicole Says:

            I agree with manwich below, you’re overthinking it. We all do it!

            I doubt the guy thinks badly of you. If I’m reading all this correctly, he was the one to escalate things physically, and you were agreeable, and then he decided to stop short of sex (for whatever reason) and you were cool with that, too.

            We spend a lot of time on this site over analyzing every word that gets said on a date. Truth is, dating isn’t really a minefield of ways to screw up, most of the time a relationship is going to happen or not happen based on attraction and personality. If the chemistry and compatibility are there, you can be inexperienced and make mistakes and it will still work. If those things aren’t there, doesn’t matter if you say and do all the right things, the relationship will still never succeed.

            And yes, I’m speaking from experience. On my 2nd date with my current boyfriend, I got drunk, went home with him, got soooo sick, and basically had a teary meltdown instead of the hot sex he was probably expecting. I apologized once I sobered up. He was understanding. We moved on. Sometimes romance doesn’t look like it does in the movies, and that’s ok :)

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        • manwich Says:

          A happy ending is a happy ending, especially after a 12 hour second date.

          I think you may be over thinking it OP. You have a good thing going. Enjoy it.

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          • D. Says:

            And stop listening to your friend. “Oh heavens! You might get used!”

            There are two kinds of getting used.

            There’s the scenario where the guy intentionally lies to or manipulates you, always intending to have sex with you, and never ever call you again (unless maybe he’s bored and wants sex again). And yes, those guys do exist. But that’s not every guy. In fact, I’d guess it’s only a minority of guys who are actually that calculating and deceptive.

            But women like your friend also use the phrase “getting used” synonymously with “getting disappointed.” And the simple truth is that you can end up disappointed in dating for any number of reasons, none of which have anything to do with intentionally leading you on just to get sex. Guys can lose interest for any number of reasons. Guys can be not all that interested in the first place, but figure if you’re offering sex, well, why not? Guys can find someone they like more than you and decide to date them. In none of those scenarios is the guy using you if you end up having sex with him. That’s just dating not workout out like you’d hope.

            And let’s not forget, it could go the other way, too. You could sleep with a guy and decide that you just aren’t that into him. Were you “using” him, in that case? No. You just dated, and it didn’t go past a certain point.

            You’re going to end up disappointed in dating at some point. You’ll like someone, it’ll go so far, and they won’t want to take it further. That’s just how dating goes. But don’t spend your life wringing your hands and wondering if every guy is trying to use you. Just date the guy and enjoy yourself. Keep your expectations realistic, recognize that early dating is extremely volatile and there are no guarantees, but have fun with it anyway.

            One last possible analysis of this guy’s behavior: if you told him about your relative inexperience in dating, I’d bet he held off on sex because of that. His concern would be that your inexperience would lead you to accusing him of using you if things progressed sexually and he changed his mind. That MAY mean that he’s on the fence, but it may also mean that he’s just overly cautious about sending early positive signals when he doesn’t know where this is headed. Kinda like how you wouldn’t necessarily introduce your date to your friends/family after date #3 or whatever, for fear of suggesting “THIS IS GOING SOMEWHERE SERIOUS.”

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  14. AnnieNonymous Says:

    Guys stop shy of having sex when they get the impression that the girl is the sort to get really clingy afterward. Of course, this wouldn’t be a problem if he actually liked her and wanted to keep seeing her. But take it as a sign that he decided that going without sex was better than dealing with this girl in the aftermath.

    I kind of wonder how many texts she sent after the first date and whether he only came over on the second date because he didn’t want to be seen with her in front of people he might know.

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    • Aela Says:

      We had dinner out, then a movie at mine. Sorry should have clarified. Not very good at this :-(

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  15. Lisa Says:

    So he gave you oral sex. And then you gave him oral sex? And that was after or before he said it was too soon for intercourse?

    Sounds like y’all had sex…as it were.

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  16. AC Says:

    Moxie nailed this one. Coffee dates are lame. Lunch dates have gone the way of the payphone. In addition, any advice and cut the first date short or keep it 40 my minutes is complete garbage. Use your gut when it comes dating advice, if it sounds ridiculous or something that’s too contrived ignore the advice. I don’t always agree with Moxie’s advice but she’s pretty consistent and this time is spot on.

    About that article which looks like it could’ve come from the pick up artist site, same thing complete garbage. It’s one thing to try and build tension. Messing with a woman’s head is totally different. Especially when you’re doing something that’s deliberate like that. A perceptive woman is going to sense something is wrong and drop you like a bad habit. I’m not saying that you’re not perceptive but as you gain more experience you’ll start to gain confidence in the situations. Lastly, your friends are probably well-meaning, but there are times when you need to just simply ignore their advice or other suggestions they may be putting into your head.

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    • manwich Says:

      Sorry to say this, but half of all online daters aren’t really as attractive as their 5 best photos. Half of them aren’t as interesting as the profile they hired Moxie to write.

      The more I binge date, the more jaded I get, the less invested I feel, and the better my results. If I really like a girl, I’ll go all out for a second date. For first dates, I keep it simple and keep my expectations low.

      Some people fear internet dating because “OMG! what if they don’t look like their pictures”. People should grow up and enjoy an hour long conversation with an unattractive stranger. If your not too invested, then it’s not a big deal either way.

      On PlentyOfFish they ask the question about an “ideal first date”. So many women say they don’t want something boring like a beer or coffee. They wanna go sky diving, or “surprise me with something romantic”. Bull Shit! Until you meet someone face to face, they are a stranger. Getting excited about someone you’ve never met is mistake.

      I fill my weeknights with cheap, simple first dates, then save the weekends for second dates with girls I like. It doesn’t sound romantic, but it works. You have to meet lots of people to find one you really like. I don’t have the time or energy to plan a bunch of expensive dates with strangers.

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      • Goldie Says:

        Wow, I think I agree with all of this post. Especially these points…

        “Some people fear internet dating because “OMG! what if they don’t look like their pictures”.

        These people must be new to internet dating, because the other person not looking like that person’s picture is likely the least of their problems in that venue. Not only that, but I guarantee you that these fearful people do not look a whole lot like their pictures, either. I come to my first dates prepared to see Shrek, or his donkey. This way, anything better looking than that, I’m pleasantly surprised, which is a great way to start a conversation.

        “On PlentyOfFish they ask the question about an “ideal first date”. So many women say they don’t want something boring like a beer or coffee. They wanna go sky diving, or “surprise me with something romantic”.

        These women need to get over themselves and realize that getting a glimpse into the life of a new person is never boring. Even if the person ends up being boring as hell, it’s always a new, different kind of boring as hell. If they are interested in getting entertained, rather than getting to know the people they meet, then they’re on the wrong site – they shouldn’t be dating – they should be instead buying tickets to amusement parks, Cirque De Soleil, or whatever their preferred entertainment venue is.

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          **I come to my first dates prepared to see Shrek, or his donkey.**

          Ha ha, that made me snort-laugh. ;o)

          Do people really expect to skydive on a first date, or are they just trying to sound cool and “different”? The novelty thing would make more sense once you’ve been dating a while to keep things from getting stale. Still, you shouldn’t *need* a lot of bells and whistles to enjoy someone’s company.

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        **The more I binge date, the more jaded I get, the less invested I feel, and the better my results.**

        But why are you jaded if you’re getting good results? /not snarky, just curious

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        • Lisa Says:

          I’m guessing good results means a stready and diverse stream of sex partners. And jaded refers to women overselling their looks and other attribrutes via their profiles.

          I thought that was a good post and a good strategy. It’s a numbers game. Find cheap, easy ways to weed thru masses.

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        • manwich Says:

          The first time I drove a car as a 16ya, I felt like a stud. Now I drive every day, and the novelty is gone.

          When I first tried internet dating after my divorce 4 years ago, I was so nervous. I would write long thoughtful letters to one girl at a time and sit and wait for a response. I’d stare at the pictures and read the profile over and over again and imagine how great we could be together. This is totally the wrong way to do it. You set your self up for disappointment or failure.

          I found that the more times I changed shirts before a date, the more likely I was to screw it up. For a guy, being nervous, and bashful, and worried if a girl likes you is unattractive.

          Goldie is exactly right. We gotta play down the expectations. The easiest way to do this is to go on so many dates that you stop caring. I still get excited after a good first kiss, but before that, it’s just another beer with Shrek’s donkey. I like beer.

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