How To Avoid Dating Burnout #atwys

lias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): Feliciaonline-dating-image-001-copy

Comment: Hi moxie
Texting. Sigh. I was all set up to go on a date next week with a guy I met on ok Cupid. He set me some messages and I replied fairly quickly and we were exchanging messages like they were texts. Nothing crazy just the usual banter. I said something about how it’s easier to talk in real life and he said “we should meet for a drink then” and so I gave him my number and the texting continued with no plans to meet. I told him I’m not a huge texter especially not when I’m at work. I have gotten in trouble with my boss for being on my phone too much in the past. So we made plans. The texting continues into the weekend but it was nothing engaging just “hey” and when I told him about my weekend his response was “same” instead of an actual response so that’s the last text I got from him. I wake up Monday morning to “you don’t seem into me, maybe we’re not a match” this made me very upset because what more can a person do to show that they’re interested besides the occasional text and you know, agreeing to go out. Honestly I don’t know why I’m surprised he did seem more interested in just texting and maybe that was his intention all along, just to text someone and not meet. Had he just cancelled for another reason it would have been one thing but to blame me and say he’s canceling because I “didn’t seem interested” really pissed me off. We are in our mid 30s so it’s not like we have been dating with this technology for very long and I clearly remember dating without cell phones. Is this what dating has become? You have to be craft a perfect profile, pick perfect photos, be charming over message, charming over text. All of this work before you even meet! Its exhausting. All of this work and buildup only for something like this to happen. I guess not wanting to text and being vocal about preferring meeting in real life backfired on me. I know your advice is to keep texting brief and I agree but what if it seems they take that as a sign that you’re not interested? Red flag and move on or is this what dating has become?
Age: 33
City: New York
State: New York

My advice is to never give your phone number out until a date is set, and only then give it out the day before or day of the date. Why? Because of exactly what you experienced.

This guy was never all that interested. He only turned it around on you because he wasn’t going to say, “Hey, I’m not all that interested.” He put you on the defensive so that he didn’t seem like the bad guy. It’s like the dude from yesterday’s letter who sent a text accusing the woman of leaving the bar and not coming back. This guy was just done with you, and that’s how he chose to get out of it.

You’re experiencing dating burn out, a common feeling of frustration that many daters experience. The way to avoid it is to not engage in certain behaviors that more often than not lead to one or both people feeling jilted and confused.

Here are some things people should do/not do in order to side-step dating malaise and fatigue.

Post good photos - Face, full body shot, social shot. That’s it. No photos taken at weird angles or at a distance. Do not in any way obstruct your face and body. And you MUST have at least 3 photos.

Don’t reply to anybody who admits in their profile they’re just out of a relationship, new in town, just checking this out, expresses hesitation about online dating, etc – These people are flakes.

Don’t engage anyone with less then 3 photos. – They only post one or two because they either have no recent photos or are only posting pics where they look atypically good. These people are the ones who end up not looking anything like their photos.

Do not email anybody until you’ve read their complete profile and viewed all of their photos. – You know how it is. You get excited at that primary photo and skim their profile then shoot off a message. But then you go through their pictures and profile text and notice little red flags. Or you realize they posted a wildly inaccurate photo as their primary pic and buried the one where they don’t look as good in the back.

Do not respond to anybody without a photo. – That is, unless you really enjoy awkward conversations where you have to tell them you’re not interested because you don’t find them attractive. You then set yourself up for weird conversations. People who don’t post photos don’t post them for a reason. They know they’re not conventionally attractive and are hoping to rope someone in with their witty banter or other aspect to their lifestyle/personality.

Do not engage in email conversation past a certain point without setting up a date. - I’ve said this before, exchange maybe 3-4 emails between you (6-8 total) and then suggest an in person meet-up. Somebody has to take the initiate, so do it. These people who write in and say they spent weeks to a month “chatting” with people baffle me. Who has that kind of time to invest in a stranger? If they’re delaying meeting up, there’s a reason, and it’s likely one that will impede any kind of real life relationship.

Do not engage the creeps and weirdos. – You are never going to teach someone a lesson or give them one to grow on. It’s not your place to reply to them and try and figure out their particular pathology. Here’s your answer: they’re idiots who think insulting you or asking weird questions or behaving in an odd manner is endearing. If someone emails you to tell you they disagree with something you say in your profile or try to school you, delete and block them. You’re as foolish as they are if you think you’re going to get anywhere with them.

Don’t respond if you’re not interested or tell someone you’re not interested. – No, it’s not a sign of politeness if someone does this. It’s rude. People get off on rejecting folks, that’s why they do it. That or they are completely socially tone deaf.

Do not ask someone why they weren’t interested. – You will NEVER get the truth, ergo it’s a pointless conversation.

Do not track them down via social media. – Without context, you will not have a way to properly assess their statements or behavior.  Just take them at their word until they give you reason not to.

Don’t pull the safety card in order to see how much info they’ll give you.- I can tell you right now, more and more people are beginning to balk at this because they know it’s a test. You are not owed any kind of dossier on that person you’re meeting for a beer. When they start asking you for money or behaving in a way that is suspicious, then check them out.

Do not confront someone with information you easily and effortlessly found. – Here’s why: if you were able to find information that easily, that means they a) don’t care what you think and b) never had any intention of actually dating you. They also have a ready made explanation that they give to everybody that usually works. And let’s face it, if they’re attractive, it usually works so the point is moot.

Do not engage in email or text banter before first date. – Like, at all. Make the date and don’t speak until your date. Too often, a false sense of familiarity builds and people get too comfortable or get spooked.

Embrace The Fade – It sucks, it’s not fair and it sometimes really hurts. But people do it. Men and women. Sometimes people feel it’s the humane way to go. Sometimes they just don’t care enough to tell you why they’re not interested. Don’t try to rationalize it or make sense of it.

Do not expect them to closely resemble their photos. – A picture is one moment in time. It is a one dimensional representation of how we look. Maybe they had a good hair day that day. Maybe they’ve put on ten pounds since they posted that photo. There needs to be some wiggle room in your expectations.

Reply back in a  timely fashion. - I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if longer than 24 hours goes by and someone doesn’t respond, don’t get too attached. Not yet, at least. There’s no excuse for a time lapse longer than a day.

Don’t cancel your first date. - Extenuating circumstances aside, cancelling is going to start you off at a deficit.

Offer to contribute to the table and send a god damn Thank You text after the date. – Looking at you, single women. Just do it. Stop complaining and standing on principal and do it. It scores you points.

Don’t listen to the internet. - I’m telling you, all those people talking about all the dates they’re getting are leaving something out of the story. There was one blogger that I used to follow who got several dates a week at 40 years old. Turns out she mentioned in her profile how much she enjoys sex and how important it is. Derp. That’s why she got so many dates. As for the people who whine and complain, I can assure you they’re batting way, way, way out of their league, have awful taste in men/women, or are telling you a distorted version of the truth.

Don’t quit. – Online dating is hard. It’s arduous and time consuming. But it is like this for everybody. You are not experiencing something many, many other people haven’t experienced. We all deal with the same nonsense. You have to keep at it. Forget detoxes and breaks. You can take a little hiatus here and there, but don’t delete or disable your profile. Just focus on other things for a couple of days.

Anything else?

 

Psst! Like our new Facebook page, please?

Follow Us on FacebookFollow Us on TwitterFollow Us on InstagramFollow Us on FeedBurner

 

One on One Dating Profile Review

Get a 45 minute one on one review of your profile with me.  I’ll go over your picture selection and ad text and let you know if your profile includes any buzz words or red flags. I’ll also help you tweak/write your profile if it needs some freshening up.

$45 – INCLUDES:

 

  • *Profile analysis (45 minute phone session.)
  • *Assistance with editing and re-writes.
  • *Photo selection and review.
  • *Feedback about specific issues and experiences.
  • *Site selections  and Pros & Cons of the more popular dating sites.
  • *Overview of online dating basics – how to write intro messages, how to draw more attention to your profile, how to sort your searches so you can see profiles you might be missing.

 

$45 (Use code BLOG to save $10)

 

Eventbrite - Master Match.com & OKCupid

 

Let Me Write Your Profile For You

$75 – INCLUDES:

 

  • *A complete re-write of your self-summary and other profile sections as well as what you are looking for in a partner or date.
  • *Assistance with editing and re-writes.
  • *Photo selection and review.
  • *Feedback about specific issues and experiences.
  • *Site selections and Pros & Cons of the more popular dating sites.
  • *Learn how to write better intro messages that will get responses
  • *Get tips to draw more attention to your profile
  • *Learn how to sort your searches so you can see profiles you might be missing.

 

$75 (Use code BLOG to save $10)

 

Eventbrite - Master Match.com & OKCupid

 

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
Share
, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

72 Responses to “How To Avoid Dating Burnout #atwys”

  1. J Says:

    I have a bunch:

    1. Keep your profile brief. No one wants to see a life essay online about you and it generally puts people off. Myself included.

    2. Be honest. Lying leads to awkward situations. And some people including myself will have no problem calling you out on it.

    3. Keep your past relationship history to yourself. Because I actually don’t want to hear about how your exes were so horrible and you were so perfect. In case we don’t work out I don’t feel like being the subject of conversation at your next first date.

    4. If for any reason you can’t come, you better have a date where you are available. Otherwise I’m assuming you’re a flake and don’t have balls to follow up on the hour or two you committed to seeing me. If you can’t commit an hour, I can’t commit a year.

    5. On that note if you can’t come and can’t respect my time enough to give me more than two hours notice that you can’t show up, then I can’t find time for you either. If you decide to tell me at that point that you’re not interested for whatever reason, I have no problem telling you that I’m not interested in a flaky game player.

    6. I do expect a 10 minute phone call before we meet. Why? Because how do I know that the 30 year old woman I am talking to isn’t really a 65 year old man? And why would I want to spend two hours with someone who spends more time stuttering than Porky Pig?

    7. Respond to me with “Hey” and I respond to you with “bye”. No offense but if you can’t think of anything intelligent to say to me then I am probably out of your league. And don’t tell me in your first email how much you think we would be a match. You’re not my mother, you don’t know me.

    8. Don’t excessively put tales of your past in your profile, particularly those that involve excess booze. I want to know who I’m dating. Your trip to Everest may be impressive, but it’s not really winning me over.

    9. Never ever ask me for more pictures before we meet up. You get an over abundance when you look at my profile. If you’re that unsure you want to meet me, then I am sure I don’t want to meet you.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 24

    Reply

    • fuzzilla Says:

      **7. Respond to me with “Hey” and I respond to you with “bye”. No offense but if you can’t think of anything intelligent to say to me then I am probably out of your league.**

      This has been covered before, and I tend to agree. I don’t think you’re a jerk or rude if you just say “hi” or “how are you today?” I get how you’d wanna keep it brief when you don’t know if the person would write back or not, but say something more than “hi,” at least a sentence or two.

      Sometimes I’ll respond to “hi,” but when I do I usually quickly grow bored and annoyed that, right off the bat, the person is making me do all the heavy lifting to actually have a conversation. I thought the idea was to sell yourself or respond to something in my profile to get a conversation started/point out things we have in common.

      I feel like I follow all Moxie’s tips (could maybe brush up on one or two), and they do help a lot to lessen fatigue and burn out, but I still get burnt out.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

      Reply

      • Felicia Says:

        i agree with people saying “hi” or “how are you” and I am noticing guys doing that a lot more. In a way I can’t blame them, as it must suck to have to craft so many individual responses and get few replies back. but i also think it wouldn’t kill someone to keep it brief while mentioning a little something from your profile.

        The funny thing is I am trying to avoid burnout! It is absolutely true that not filtering better will lead to tons of unproductive dates which leads to burnout and bitterness, and that has happened to me in the past. I am mostly annoyed at myself about this guy because once he wouldn’t let up with the barrage of texts–“i looked at your profile you’re so pretty”–red flag, “when was your least relationship”–red flag, “I can’t wait to kiss you”–red flag. i should have just been honest and said I wasn’t interested. Instead, he beat me to the punch. I tend to do that. go along with things even if i am not interested, not to let anyone down or disappoint them. i am working hard to stop doing that but this one slipped. Thanks for the good advice on avoiding burnout. these are good tips and I will keep them in mind!

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • ATWYSingle Says:

          You want to know how to avoid burnout for good?

          Stop shooting out of your league.

          The reason why you keep meeting guys who text and message you for weeks and never try to meet you is because you’re on the lower end of their roster. They have other options.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5

          Reply

          • Lucy Says:

            The harsh but unuttered truth sometimes. Boy have I learnt that the hard way! This is definitely something you have to work out for yourself as no one is ever going to say ‘Sorry but I’m out of your league’ or ‘Sorry I don’t find you attractive enough’ unless they’re very brutally honest. I learnt it the hard way by experiencing being the ‘option’ or ‘attractive enough to sleep with but not to get serious with’.

            And since that humbling truth has hit me, I don’t by any means think I am out of any guy’s league. I’ve tried to do what men do and observe who I can get interested in me with minimal effort. That I define as my ‘league’. I try and look my best so I can wangle that as best I can but there isn’t much I can do beyond that.

            What’s the best way to deal with these? Probably I will take the advice Moxie gave me in the last question I wrote. I’ll set a mental limit on how long I’m prepared to have directionless conversation with them. I’ll suss them out better and cut it off if it isn’t going anywhere.

            Now I don’t always take advice like ‘The Rules’ seriously. But I like Andrew’s advice over at ‘The Rules Revisited’. He said that it’s best to hold back with men and let them walk over to you and start a conversation – then at least you’re not in a position of trying to persuade them to be attracted to you. Hm I’m not sure whether this applies to online dating..

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

            Reply

          • enchantee Says:

            I disagree somewhat with this.
            While I do agree that those who drag out the texting messaging without meeting are putting you on the back burner, I don`t think it is because the person has better options. Rather, I believe, the person dragging it out is trying to snag someone out of THEIR league , or think they have. Both parties can be equally delusional, and it is not always the one who is being rejected or led on. I`ve seen this happen many times , myself and others.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

            Reply

    • AC Says:

      I agree with a lot of what you said but this, is wayyyy out there:

      I do expect a 10 minute phone call before we meet. Why? Because how do I know that the 30 year old woman I am talking to isn’t really a 65 year old man? And why would I want to spend two hours with someone who spends more time stuttering than Porky Pig?

      Really? I can’t speak for everyone but I am yet to run into this situation. There are other ways to spot fake profiles.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 4

      Reply

      • Joey Giraud Says:

        “And why would I want to spend two hours with someone who spends more time stuttering than Porky Pig?”

        Some people pay big money for an hour of Laughter Therapy.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

        Reply

  2. D. Says:

    Treat dating as a fun activity in and of itself, not as a necessary step towards an eventual goal of a relationship/marriage.

    Let’s be honest here. Almost nobody that you go out with will end up being the great love of your life. Online, offline, doesn’t matter. Most people you date, it doesn’t work out that way. That’s not to say it can’t work out that you end up in a relationship, but just looking at the numbers, most of the time it doesn’t. Hell, plenty of times you don’t make it past 1-4 dates with someone, let alone end up in a relationship.

    Therefore, if you go in with the goal of finding a relationship or love or whathaveyou, you will most likely burn yourself out. Instead, treat dating as a fun activity where you get to meet new people, visit new places, maybe get laid now and then, and otherwise just have a nice night out. And even if you don’t have a nice night out, at least maybe you’ll get a good story out of it.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 2

    Reply

    • Felicia Says:

      absolutely! and that is usually how i treat it as its impossible for every date you go on to be “the one” or whatever. unless you’re my sister, she ended up in a 6+ and still going strong LTR on her first okc date but that is super rare. anyway even treating it as a fun night, it still sucks to get sucked into some nonsense and have your time wasted for nothing–a lot of those kinds of experiences make this not so fun. there was nothing fun about wasting literally an entire work day (thank god my work was slow) messaging and texting with some douche who wanted to have a date over text because he was bored and not really interested. next time i’ll take Moxies bullet points a lot more literally, its good advice. i should have said I wasn’t interested after I got the “so when was your last relationship” text because it did make me very uneasy but I played along like a dummy (in my defense i did refuse to answer that question. I said I’d rather have a conversation in real life, and then he set the date.

      also question to everyone. I am noticing a lot of guys are now preemptively giving me their number on an okc message before a date is set. how do you handle that?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

      Reply

      • fuzzilla Says:

        **I am noticing a lot of guys are now preemptively giving me their number on an okc message before a date is set. how do you handle that?**

        I have noticed this, too, as I mentioned. I just tell them I prefer to chat on the site and save the phone number for when we’re ready to meet. They may just think texting is a quicker mode of communication than the dating site app, or they may want to send you endless stupid bullshit and waste your time. The way they respond when you state your preferences will tell you which type they are.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

        Reply

        • AC Says:

          Are they offering it in the first email or during the exchange? Personally, find this behavior a little odd and would consider it a potential red flag. If they offer the phone # before setting up the date tell them you don’t give your # out until you’ve set something up. If they run…you’re better off. I’m no expert but I’ve found my system below works well on OKCupid and Match.

          1)Email woman and express interest,
          2)If she responds, I ask her if she wants to meet up.
          3) Arrange a time and place

          Number can be exchanged any time after that. If a woman insists n waiting till the day of the date, no problem. That’s why we have the OKCupid & Match apps.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          Reply

          • fuzzilla Says:

            **Are they offering it in the first email or during the exchange?**

            During the first e-mail. “Hi, I’m Joe, text me at 123-456-7890.”

            I know it’s like, “Newsflash, there are people with poor social skills on dating sites.” One of Moxie’s tips is not waste energy on idiots. I’m just so tired of seeing the same shit over and over and over again – men bark orders at me, talk about nothing but sex, get pissy if I don’t e-mail them back immediately.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

            Reply

            • AC Says:

              Gotcha…. Yeah that’s douchebag behavior. I’ll bet one if those PUA sites is pushing that tactic. Especially if you’ve gotten a rash of emails like that. Those sites are legendary for getting guys to behave in ways they normally wouldn’t.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

              Reply

      • D. Says:

        Re: telephone numbers before a first date.

        If you’ve only communicated via the site, I agree that it’s generally best to provide the number shortly before the first date, in case someone’s running late, had an assignment land on their desk at work last-minute, whatever.

        If the guy is starting off by giving you his number, I suppose it depends on how ready you are to meet him and how he plays it.

        The pattern I took usually was this: 2-4 rounds of emails (as in me to her, and her reply = 1 round). One phone call for the express purpose of setting up the date, usually lasting not longer than, like, 20 min. Then you meet on the date.

        I could see a guy doing the texting in place of some of the email back and forth, and in place of the phone call, but otherwise, there’s no point in endless texting.

        In general, there’s nothing wrong with giving out your number, but it can make it more difficult to cut the guy off if he seems to just be interested in endless texts without setting up a date. Whereas on the site, you just click “block” and you’re done. Aside from that, gauge your own ability to say “Screw this. I’m done” with a guy who’ll drag out the texting forever, and give out your number with that sense in mind.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

        Reply

  3. bbdawg Says:

    One of the tough things about online is cutting people off swiftly when you first get messages. Like Moxie said, once a man gives obvious red flags like emailing you at 11pm to see “what’s up”, or showing that he is not interested in making any effort at all (“hi/how r u/u r pretty”), don’t reply, or if you reply, be succinct and block him. Most ppl get lots of messages many of them are not great. Filter them fast and get to the point that you are on there to meet people.
    .
    Don’t give out your number and don’t text unless it’s about an actual meeting. If your goal is to “find the right person” I’d say make that goal into “going on X dates with different men” or whatever so that it’s depersonalized. I completely agree that you have to think “math” – the odds that you are going to meet someone for a LTR is higher if you meet a higher number of men. This way you are never hung up on anyone particular unless you have actually found the person and it’s a mutual match. But you have to be pro-active though and don’t be fooled by a profile. You never really know until you meet.

    Be overt about the goal of meeting that is how you avoid wasting your time with men looking for extra phone numbers/last-minute options. If a man balks, just tell him you are online to meet people in real life, to set a date and leave at that. You should only spend your daytime hours corresponding with people you already know. Texting is annoying as is, much less coming from some dude you don’t even know. He doesn’t care about someone he hasn’t met.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

    Reply

    • fuzzilla Says:

      That, “Hello, let’s text, here’s my number” crap is so widespread. I can see how a woman new to online dating who wants to seem agreeable and interested might be like, “Oh, okay, sure; is that how things are done?” Lesson learned.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

      Reply

  4. sf Says:

    As much as I love reading Moxie’s advice, almost better is reading the comments from all of you. What helps me not get too burned out is knowing this nonsense is not just happening to me. Misery loves company :-) It helps to know that other people, men and women, are dealing with these jerks as well and to learn from you all what has worked for you. So thank you.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 1

    Reply

  5. AC Says:

    Great advice across the board.

    About exchanging emails – My experience is that it’s better to ask the woman out sooner rather than later. Example:
    I email her expressing, interest (something similar to Moxie’s template)
    She emails back expressing interest.
    I ask her to meet up.
    We figure out a time that works best and set up a date.

    Nice and easy. Save any and all questions for the date so you have more to talk about. Remember this is a complete stranger and it’s better to have a topic and not need it than need it and not have it (ie: we talked about that already.)

    This is favorite:
    Don’t respond if you’re not interested or tell someone you’re not interested. – No, it’s not a sign of politeness if someone does this. It’s rude. People get off on rejecting folks, that’s why they do it. That or they are completely socially tone deaf.

    Bingo! I still run into people who think that they’re genuinely being polite with they’re “not interested” responses. Guess what? Silence speaks volumes and the sane guys will “get it.” I love that you call them “socially tone deaf.”

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

    Reply

    • Felicia Says:

      i HATE the “i am not interested” message. just don’t respond and move on. i never do it to guys. makes me feel like a jerk and it always either sounds rude and mean or pitying. i don’t know if guys get this a lot but i have gotten a few as a lady and find them pointless. i also find the unsolicited “i am not interested” text after a first or second date useless as well. unless somebody point blank asks you out, there is no need to tell them “you aren’t interested” yes, our mutual silence speaks volumes. i also agree that people who do it get a rush from “rejecting” people which is why they do it. unless somebody is relentlessly sending messages and texts i don’t see the point.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

      Reply

      • AC Says:

        I think there’s an old school mentality that thinks that saying “I’m not interested” or making up an excuse like you just got involved with someone is polite. It’s not it’s insulting. That’s why I think the term socially tone deaf is appropriate.

        Silence speaks volumes in these cases.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

        Reply

        • C Says:

          i actually much prefer getting a quick “I’m sorry but we’re not a match” text over silence. If I reach out and get no reply, it comes across as him saying I’m not even worth a 5 second text response.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

          Reply

          • AC Says:

            Once of twice I received a “we’re not a match” email that was appropriate (ex: one woman referenced that my profile said I want kids, hers clearly said she didn’t). Most of the time, not interested responses come across as rude or condescending.

            Match.com has that “not interested” button. IMO, it doesn’t get ruder than that, but I have heard some people prefer it.

            I guess there’s no good way to reject someone which is why no replies and the fade are becoming more popular.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

            Reply

  6. LostSailor Says:

    Is this what dating has become? You have to be craft a perfect profile, pick perfect photos, be charming over message, charming over text. All of this work before you even meet! Its exhausting. All of this work and buildup only for something like this to happen. I guess not wanting to text and being vocal about preferring meeting in real life backfired on me.

    Yes, in many respects, this is what dating has become. But once you have your profile done, it only requires a few tweaks on a regular basis to keep it current in matches. Ditto for the photos. My experience has been that once you have that stuff down and aren’t sweating the little stuff, it gets easier.

    I agree with bbdawg, though, that you have to be a little ruthless about cutting people off who are wasting your time. I generally agree with all of Moxie’s suggestions, but these are the key for me to keep things from becoming “exhausting.”

    * I keep early messages light, but try to make the first one relevant to the person I’m contacting.

    * If there’s some banter going in the first few exchanges of messages, I suggest meeting for drinks after work, give the general neighborhoods where I live and work and ask if she has a preference.

    * If a date, time, and place can’t be established fairly quickly, I’m out. If her schedule’s too tight, she doesn’t want to meet somewhere in the middle if she lives in a far part of town, if she declines my suggestion without making one of her own, etc., etc., I’m out. I definitely do not want to a “texting” buddy. This might not have worked out for Felicia, because she let the early texting phase go on too long. For my part, usually all of this pre-meeting communication is on the dating site.

    On this point, I’ve been told by any number of women I’ve seen over the last year, whether for only one date or many, that they really liked this, that I wanted to get off-line and meet and quickly had suggestions. I guess I never really realized that there were so many guys out there who didn’t do these fairly common-sense things that just by being even slightly proactive I stood out. Who knew?

    * I only supply my phone number on the day of the date when I send a confirming message “in case she needs to get in touch.” Most times, she responds with hers.

    Frankly, I really don’t want to talk on the phone prior to meeting. I understand that some women “feel safer” by doing this, but I’ve rarely encountered it and it’s kind of a red flag for me.

    Don’t let it get you down, Felicia. You have to kind of take it in stride an not get too invested until you are actually meeting someone. Unless what this particular guy did is a common theme, it sounds like he was just a jerk.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 3

    Reply

    • Felicia Says:

      can you write to all your fellow single men with this advice??
      i too like when the man asks me out after a couple of messages, recommends a place we settle on a time and that’s that.

      i definitely let it go too long but in my defense, it was a weird situation. i only gave him my number after he expressed interest in going out, implied he was getting it to make plans for a date. i even told him i would rather not have long conversations over text and would rather meet in real life to talk, and he agreed though it did seem like pulling teeth getting him to make plans-he wanted me to “pick a place” and just seemed not into it. anyway, even though this was nothing detrimental, as i don’t know him and never met him, just annoying, i definitely learned that its ok to express if i am not happy with something and to not let so many red flags and annoying behavior go.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

      Reply

      • ATWYSingle Says:

        Okay but…you kept replying. So that kind of negates the whole “I hater to text” thing. Also? Stop playing “the girl”. He asked you to pick a place. Pick a place. If you didn’t pick a place after he asked you to do that, then OF COURSE he wondered if you weren’t interested and was hesitant to make plans. If you want to meet up, make a plan and ask him to meet up. Stop playing stupid games and waiting for him to make a plan.

        For something that was so not a big deal, this sounds like it was an awful big deal. .

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 8

        Reply

      • LostSailor Says:

        can you write to all your fellow single men with this advice??

        Since I don’t know them, no.

        Besides, it’s not up to single men to all act in ways you want them to. Neither you nor I am responsible for the behavior of other people, we’re only responsible for our own behavior and how we react to the behavior of others.

        This guy’s behavior clearly bothered you, more than just annoying.

        he agreed though it did seem like pulling teeth getting him to make plans-he wanted me to “pick a place”

        That was your red flag and red flare. If he can’t organize a date, he’s probably not for you. There are a lot of guys out there like this: they don’t want to make a decision because they don’t want to be “wrong.” They’d rather you make a decision in hopes of easing the way. They’re wrong, but they don’t know that they’re wrong. Did you pick a place? If not, then I suspect that was why he thought you were “not interested.” Any way you look at it, it’s not worth dealing with.

        i definitely learned…to not let so many red flags and annoying behavior go.

        Actually, you do need to let them go. As in write him off, forget him, and move on.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

        Reply

      • Nicole Says:

        “i too like when the man asks me out after a couple of messages, recommends a place we settle on a time and that’s that.”

        The thing is, guys who are messaging with you online have no idea what you like, or how you want the interaction to unfold. They’re either just doing whatever feels natural to them, or what has worked in the past. It’s not usually a case of a guy deliberately messing with your head or trying to make things difficult. That happens, sure, but it’s the exception not the rule.

        Some people like to text/email more than others. Some are assertive in planning dates and others are not. Maybe a guy is asking you to pick a place because he got blown off before when he came off as pushy, and now he’s trying not to do that. You just don’t know.

        I think Moxie’s rules are good guidelines, but you have to make exceptions sometimes. Might mean you waste a little time, but sometimes it pays off. My bf only had one pic up – a headshot from his bio on the company website, lol. But he sounded awesome so I took a chance. If he’d been awful looking in person, well, it’s only an hour out of my whole life to have a drink and say goodnight.

        The attractive and successful men on online dating sites can afford to blow off women who seem difficult or make things complicated. To a guy who’s used to texting a lot, you could have seemed uninterested or too much work. And so he moved on. Guys who have options aren’t going to bend over backwards to do things your way.

        So, obviously watch out for red flags and don’t have a lot of expectations about people you haven’t even met. But don’t have such strict rules that you reject great guys who just happen to approach online dating differently from you.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

        Reply

  7. Felicia Says:

    actually, by the time i had a chance to pick the place, he cancelled. i kept responding because what was i supposed to do ignore him? i thought we had a date so i wasn’t going to just ignore him when he was asking me questions. it wasn’t a big deal, i am just responding to commenters and having a discussion because there is a lot of good advice here including yours. i am just wondering why do you always turn on letter writers in the comments and get so nasty?? who is playing silly games? guy incessantly texted me, made plans for a date on thursday, we did some light texting all prompted by him, then out of nowhere monday morning he turns around and says i wasn’t interested and cancels the date. what games was i playing? i am simply having a conversation. why are you being such a bitch? i am not arguing with anyone, i am not disputing anything, i am not getting defensive. all of a sudden i was playing games when your initial advice was super spot on? jesus christ you can be so fucking nasty sometimes.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 3

    Reply

    • JC Says:

      I can’t speak for Moxie but when I see LW’s (letter writers) all over the comments responding to everybody I assume they are here for attention and not advice. It makes you look like you never really had a question and that you just wanted a place to go and talk about yourself.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 21

      Reply

  8. Felicia Says:

    if you prefer people don’t comment on your articles, then close comments. every SINGLE article i have read here turns into a huge fight with YOU and the op. almost every single time. i did absolutely NOTHING to warrant your attitude and to tell me i am playing games simply because i am having a conversation with other commentors, half of which isn’t even about the topic at hand, just about dating in general (i am such a piece of shit for having a conversation and asking people for advice!) and ALL of which are AGREEING with your advice. until your bitchy self came along everybody was having a very civil conversation. some people get off on rejection but its clear now that you get off on being a complete and total nasty, cold and mean bitch to strange people who come to you for advice. does making vulnerable unsure people feel like shit on your website boost your self esteem? fuck this site. never again. you may have some good advice but you are such a bitch.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 12

    Reply

    • LostSailor Says:

      if you prefer people don’t comment on your articles, then close comments.

      If you’ve read past posts and comments here and can’t deal with the plain talk, don’t read comments.

      every SINGLE article i have read here turns into a huge fight with YOU and the op. almost every single time.

      Not true. But it does happen when OPs don’t like what they hear or want advice sugar-coated.

      i did absolutely NOTHING to warrant your attitude and to tell me i am playing games…i am such a piece of shit for having a conversation and asking people for advice!… etc., etc.

      Just to point out that Moxie is commenting on your behavior, not about you. Yet you take it personally. I suspect that this is also why you wrote in: you took the “rejection” of this guy before your first date personally. Which is why you find online dating “exhausting.”

      some people get off on rejection but its clear now that you get off on being a complete and total nasty, cold and mean bitch

      Wrong conclusion. Some people can’t deal with rejection and take it personally. OPs who comment excessively on posts of their letters usually provide further information that clarifies the main issue. This is no different. Your comments have generally been to justify your behavior, and when called on it, you react with emotional vehemence.

      And thus the core problem is revealed: You take rejection far too personally. You find online dating “exhausting” because every slight is a personal slur. Here’s the truth: online dating is 90%+ rejection. It’s the guys who don’t contact you at all, it’s the guys who make minimal effort, it’s the guys that blow you off before the first date or flake on the first date. It’s the guys who fade after one date. Until you’re actually in a relationship, it’s all about dealing with rejection.

      And it’s no different for the guys, either.

      Moxie comes across as harsh because she’s dealt with the same issues of people not dealing with their own shit for years. And the commentariat here is not for the faint of heart. It’s rarely only “civil conversation” around here. Which is why it can work. Platitudes are worthless.

      And Chloe below is quite right. If you’re defensive, you’re not going to be open to changing attitude and behavior that will help lead to success.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 5

      Reply

    • JulesP Says:

      Viz what you say Moxie about not responding to those who don’t post photos..

      In general I don’t check out those profiles that have no photos however… if I’m approached by someone online whose profile seems reasonable but minus the photos, my response will usually be friendly with a request to send a recent photo to my gmail address. If that is refused then yes, I absolutely ignore any further attempts to contact me.

      Always good to have a timely reminder of online dating dos and dont’s!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      Reply

      • mindstar Says:

        The same applies to people who have a virtually blank profile. They’re on it for ego gratification. Let them starve

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

        Reply

  9. Chloe Says:

    The truth hurts Felicia, don’t be so defensive.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10

    Reply

  10. Lucy Says:

    Useful advice.

    Biggest thing I’ve learnt in online dating is to be less passive, to straight out ask for a meeting. It sorts out the interested from the number-collectors. You can do that in a fairly light-hearted way as well. I’ve also learnt that there is a limit to the amount of back-and-forth messages you can send. I think if they flake on you once for no good reason (and for the first date) then that’s the end of that.

    I hate rejecting people. I only did that if they asked me out directly, and then I had to say I’m not interested (there were people I was replying to out of a false sense of politeness). Some people add me on facebook from online dating so it makes it even more awkward. Sometimes I want to go on these dates for the company but I would feel quite guilty doing that knowing a man is putting resources into it.

    I don’t mind men rejecting me by fading out. It’s not ideal but it’s loud and clear. I never chase them after that. The trouble with sending rejection messages is that you may get a reply asking you ‘why’ and it puts you in an awkward situation.

    I’ve also learnt to go on fewer dates – to be honest with myself and not go on a date if my gut is telling me that deep down this person isn’t someone I’d give proper consideration to (I don’t want to waste their time or mine). I saw another blog writer say that you should only go on dates you feel excited about or at least you are a little bit intrigued by that person. That’s what I’m doing now. It means not doing the thing of saying yes to every date but then lessens my feeling of being ‘emotionally drained’.

    I’ll take your advice about giving leeway to expectations. Sometimes I’ve met someone who looks different to how I expect them to look. So I’ll be open-minded. What you said about having at least 3 pictures is good advice as well.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  11. Lucy Says:

    Another thing, I think there are exceptions to what you said about taking a ‘hiatus’ from online dating. I used to take ‘hiatus’ because I couldn’t handle it but I now want to take a hiatus until I’m no longer unemployed. I don’t think that my current situations makes me attractive to the type of men I want to attract.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  12. Howard Says:

    Moxie’s advice for limiting the phone and texting, before meeting, is spot on. I don’t take it as far as she does. I do like one very short phone call, I find it saves time. But endless texting is a no-go for me. It’s about, not getting too invested, before you even meet the person. The OP is all upset because she got too invested.

    One of the big realities of dating is competition. People like to put their heads in the sand regarding this reality, imagining the world revolves around them. But it’s the easy explanation for what happened here. People are communicating with us and many others. They keep us in play, because what they really want, has not showed up. When something better comes along, then we see this type of thing where they want an out, but not just any out. It makes them feel better to put the blame on us.

    If we are not invested in any way, when they do this, then it’s no skin off our teeth. This dating attitude also has to go into actual dating. It makes no sense to get oneself too invested in, before the other person shows meaningful interest.

    It’s really hard to get it exactly right, but we want to be close enough to reality, and not project what we feel onto others. Time, to some extent, is a measure of real interest. How much openness and even a little vulnerability someone shows us, is also another measure. Another measure is getting a sense of how much that person sees us as a prize. Another measure is getting a sense of the person’s character.

    The final piece however that will save us from grief is dealing with ourselves, and that part of us that wants things to happen so badly. And in spite of that, we can’t become cynics, for that is really the kiss of death in the dating arena.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • Lisa Says:

      I agree w/ this.

      Sometimes ppl will just kill time on the site, making small talk, checking out the nice pics, honing their flirting skills, etc., while waiting for actual dates w/ ppl they are really interested in, while waiting for things to get serious w/ one of those ppl, while waiting for their paid subscriptions to end and so on. i was dating while I was going thru a divorce (separated) and two guys told me they weren’t going to get off the site until my divorce was final (and one really liked me…eventually asked me to marry him). Sometimes ppl are on to make their exes jealous, to spy on exes, to wing for friends, or to distract themselves after a recent break up.

      Not everyone who communicates w/ you is going to be be super ready/willing/able to date you.

      But we also don’t know how boring/dismal/disinterested your texts might have been. you admit to not being a big texter and being a bit worried about doing it at work. So who knows.

      That’s one reason I don’t like those absolute rules (no phone calls prior to the date, only a few shorts texts prior to the date, etc.). Some ppl are just texters. You might have come across as taciturn or unfriendly. Who knows?

      But my main question is, when he said, “you don’t seem into me. Maybe we’re not a match” why didn’t you correct him if his assumption was inaccurate? He wasn’t canceling on you…it was just his very lame attempt at a heat check. Why didn’t you ingulge him instead of becoming upset?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

      Reply

  13. bbdawg Says:

    One thing about texting, some guys will send group texts to several women at the same time esp via whatsapp so that is another reason to beware esp. if the content of the text is impersonal and banal initially i.e. “how was your day”.
    I have said this on another thread but the only time men ere wishy washy about meeting was when i contacted them first, which i haven’t done since, as this has proven to not be productive. Replying to people who contact you first is perhaps an easier way to assess true interest. When ppl wait too long before responding or arranging to meet it’s a way to keep you as a low-investment option while they explore their priority options. No one wants to be someone’s plan b or c.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

    Reply

    • fuzzilla Says:

      **I have said this on another thread but the only time men ere wishy washy about meeting was when i contacted them first, which i haven’t done since, as this has proven to not be productive.**

      That is a piece of advice from this site that I took to heart, to wait for guys to contact me, or at least to focus on people who visited my profile. I won’t say I never contact a guy first, but now it’s once in a blue moon where I used to do it all the time.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

      Reply

      • Wolfy Says:

        I’m onboard with this assessment, but I sometimes reach out when I was get endless msgs from men way outside my ideal. A quick Hey, which everyone hates here, but find I find more akin to a “wink”, has been positive.

        I first contacted the guy I’m dating now, which is a masculine move, but I back off right after and allowed him to lead since then. He showed a lot of interest right off, and quickly took me off line to meet.

        So how do you know he is interested or would have asked me out if he kept searching and found me eventually? Well, he keeps asking me out and contacting me, that’s how.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

        Reply

        • fuzzilla Says:

          I don’t really care if it’s feminist or not-feminist to wait to be messaged first (like I said, it’s not like I never do), in this case I just care about what strategy will be most effective. Based on firsthand experience, I had to agree with people here who said women often wind up meeting guys who are kind of “meh” about them when they approach first. I’ve had some good experiences when I approached first, also, but less often.

          I used to approach a *lot* in the name of being proactive and keeping things moving. Nowadays, if a guy sounds just totally fabulous and at least somewhat nearby/relatively within my league, I’ll go ahead and send him a message and then forget all about it, act like I’m buying a lottery ticket.

          It’s all about setting yourself up to be successful and prevent burnout.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

          Reply

        • fuzzilla Says:

          Also, forgot to mention, but I don’t mind a “hi, how are you?” so much if the guy has a decent profile. Not just nice pics, but if I see that he took some time to craft a picture of who he is and list his interests and whatnot, gave me something to work with in conversation. So many profiles are just, “I’m an easy-going guy. Ask if u wanna know more, lol.” Not even exaggerating (yeah, I’m going to school in the middle of nowhere, this probably has a lot to do with it).

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

          Reply

        • bbdawg Says:

          That’s cool, it works for you, contacting guys sometimes. It’s not a NO NO type of thing it’s more of a general guideline. It’s not that it NEVER works. Basically you have to get the indication of interest from a guy. Which you got already. Otherwise you’re always second-guessing. (Thanks Rules Revisited and Evan Katz for that:).

          The other thing that happened when I contacted guys was that they assumed I wanted casual sex, meaning they weren’t finalizing plans because they weren’t interested in planning anything in advance. They just wanted to meet for sex basically (the what’s up at 11 thing or another guy I had never met asking if I wanted to come over to his place to watch a documentary on netflix).

          I also heard from a guy I had met that the only women who messaged him were “women slightly older than me to whom I was a safe option over the high-earning finance alphas that would not be into them. I was flattered to get messages but not interested in reality”. The feedback I get from men I talk to is that the women they hear from are rarely attractive to their eyes or what they seek.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

          Reply

          • Bree Says:

            “The feedback I get from men I talk to is that the women they hear from are rarely attractive to their eyes or what they seek.”

            Funny. I have that same problem with the men who contact me first.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

            Reply

  14. AnnieNonymous Says:

    It almost sounds like the guy didn’t receive the sexy texts/photos he was hoping for and wrote that off as a lack of interest on the OP’s part. I agree with Moxie though. Planning dates quickly isn’t about throwing caution to the wind. It’s about proving that these people actually want to go on dates.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    Reply

  15. rainman Says:

    This is all great and all and thanks for a large collections of not to to do’s etc. I feel like I am living in a void somewhere. Because all I am getting back from people is silence. My profile is humble and my pictures are honest. And I proactively write short but thoughtful messages to women I find interesting. Not once have I heard back from any of them. Total silence all around. They do look at my profile, but never write me back. This saga has continued over 2 years and three states. Hundreds of messages written. No replies to date. I am very tempted to just pull the plug and move on with my single life.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7

    Reply

    • ThatFatBish Says:

      I think Moxie has addressed this in several posts. You are likely grasping for women beyond your reach. Maybe you should take advantage of Moxie’s services.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

      Reply

    • bbdawg Says:

      You can also post your profile on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/OkCupid/ and ask for feedback. It’s hard for guys though and Moxie’s advice tends to be, try to aim for women who are on your league.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

      Reply

    • LostSailor Says:

      My profile is humble and my pictures are honest. And I proactively write short but thoughtful messages to women I find interesting.

      And I suspect that it the main source of your problem. Women aren’t going to be attracted to a profile that is “humble.” Total turn-off. They will respond to a profile that is interesting. I also suspect the “thoughtful” messages are perhaps a little too earnest. Another turn-off.

      Even if you’re a little shy in real life, your profile should be fun and interesting or you’re going to get the results you’re getting, which is to say, none.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

      Reply

    • Bree Says:

      More proof that women are just as “visual” as men when it comes to attraction.

      Personally I don’t bother reading the profile until I’ve decided his photos are attractive (I’m sure most men do the same, if they read a woman’s profile at all.). Only if he’s a total douche in his profile will I not respond. Otherwise, if his profile is half-way decent and not arrogant or creepy, then I will contact him.

      I think it’s sad how red pill advice tells homely guys all they have to do is be “interesting” or “alpha” or some other nonsense and young, beautiful women will be fooled into sleeping with them.

      Can’t tell you how many homely/short/balding/old guys I’ve seen on OKC who post photos of themselves on a motorcycle/boat/piloting a plane/etc. None of it makes up for the fact they simply aren’t that attractive.

      I make a good living, as a lot of women do these days, especially ones you’ll find in bigger cities. More and more of us in the coming years will not have to sell ourselves out to guys we aren’t attracted to. So all that “alpha” advice and wishful thinking about biology and how “women desire (*cough* older *cough*) men with resources,” will prove worthless eventually.

      Men need to start worrying about their own appearance.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

      Reply

  16. rainman Says:

    TFB and BBD: Thank you for your comments. I am actually not going out of my league, at least not on the right end of the spectrum. I may go a little bit on the left end of the spectrum to widen my net, but I have very reasonable expectations. I am going for women who at least have a bachelor’s degree because given my education, because I don’t know if I can connect with someone who is a high school graduate. Looks wise, I only write to women who are average but I still find attractive. So I don’t really think I am trying to reach beyond my league.

    My problem may be that I am international and I am mostly going for caucasian women. But I do know plenty of guys from my country who have caucasian wives or girlfriends.

    I will try to summon the courage to post my profile on reddit/OKC and see what I hear.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 14

    Reply

    • rainman Says:

      What exactly is so troubling in either of my posts that would generate a down vote? Haha, I bet it’s the same person in both down votes.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 0 Thumb down 15

      Reply

      • Speed Says:

        I am one down-voter. The reason you are failing is that you sound entitled, insecure and whiny.

        Insecure:
        What is “international?” Russian, Pakistani, Korean, Nigerian? What? Whatever ethnicity you are, you have to state it and embrace it. Here’s an example: I’m black. I don’t say I’m “non-white” or “ethnic” or whatever. And why the heck aren’t you even contacting women of your own race? Preferences are preferences but I can’t believe you can’t find a single woman of your own ethnic group attractive. Again, sounds like insecurity. Which women don’t like.

        Entitled:
        From the tone and content of your letter, it really just sounds like you’re really shooting out of your league. Are you looking for a good-looking blonde to prove something to yourself or others? Well, okay… if a Kate Upton lookalike is a must for you, please bring either fat bank or great looks—especially as an “international” person. You think Kim Kardashian would’ve married Kanye West if he worked at a car wash?

        Whiny/Close Minded:
        This is the death-knell for any man. You are not getting the response rate you want. You are not the quality of women you want. Blah! Blah! Blah! It sounds terrible for a man. Change your strategy, improve yourself, and target women who visit your profile. That’s your audience, as has been discussed her many times. Get a professional review of your profile (Moxie’s rates look quite reasonable to me, actually). Men solve problems; they don’t get on soapboxes and shout about them.

        Now put on your big boy pants and get on it, bro.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 2

        Reply

        • rainman Says:

          Wow speed, seems like I should take advice from you on who I should and shouldn’t date. If women can choose to date within their own race, I can choose to date outside of mine. That is my preference. That doesn’t say anything about whether or not I find women from my own ethnic background attractive. It’s a conscious choice that I am making. No need to pass judgments on that.

          One of the reasons I came here is to get advice, not to get shouted at in a condescending tone. Take your power trip somewhere else. You are so perfect and on top of your game, what are you doing on this site anyway?

          What a judgmental prick.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 23

          Reply

          • fuzzilla Says:

            If the women in your preference range don’t prefer you, then…you can adjust/expand those preferences or you can bitch and moan about how unfair life is. Which option leads to sex and/or a meaningful connection?

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 0

            Reply

          • Tinker Says:

            This is why. Complaining about down votes, getting super defensive about your choices, the insecure attitude seeping through your posts- this is why you have difficulty dating. This type of thing comes through in a profile.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 0

            Reply

            • rainman Says:

              Meaning I should not have come here. Rather I should have just ‘manned up’, counted my losses, never ask any questions and take responses or lack thereof to my profile as a solitary indication of my remaining options and make appropriate changes. All on my own. Asking questions here is a crime, punishable by insults and power trips by individuals such as ‘speed’. None of you seem to have any problem with his attitude.

              I came here not to bitch and moan, but to get some advice because I am clueless as to what I am doing wrong. Perhaps I am dim witted and dumb and don’t know what I am doing wrong. But I was expecting a little more support and cordiality on this forum than has been offered to me.

              You guys make it sound as if insecurity is a crime. Yeah, so what if I am insecure? A lot of people are. Don’t you have any insecurities? People’s personalities are a result of the experiences they have been through. I realize that makes me an unattractive option, but so be it. I am not going to try to put up a fake persona. If I am accepting of women who may have issues and problems, I will find someone who will be accepting of me.

              Thanks for your time.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 16

              Reply

              • bbdawg Says:

                Look, if you’ve been contacting women for TWO YEARS and you haven’t had a single response, there’s something wrong. It’s not working, basically. You’re shooting out of your league.

                If you are upset that people are pointing that out to you, that’s an indication that you’d rather think you’ll marry a WASP than deal with the reality that the white women you want don’t find you attractive for whatever reason.

                You should post your profile on Reddit AND mention your preferences. This way you’ll get honest feedback. Probably not what you want to hear. But it’s up to you if you want reality of how you are perceived or the image you have on your mind of what you want. Also mention where you are located so ppl can have an idea of the population you are dealing with.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2

                Reply

              • LostSailor Says:

                Asking questions here is a crime…I am clueless as to what I am doing wrong… I was expecting a little more support and cordiality… I was expecting a little more support and cordiality

                And this thin skin and need for sensitivity is why you fail. The inability to listen and accept advice is why you fail.

                I am not going to try to put up a fake persona. If I am accepting of women who may have issues and problems, I will find someone who will be accepting of me.

                Ah, the old “If I just be my true self, true love will find me”! Worst advice in the world and the worst attitude. Why? Because it’s passive. The truth is that there is no reason for women to accept the profile if it’s uninteresting. And the fact that there hasn’t been a single response in two years clearly proves that not a single woman has been “accepting”.

                If the real persona isn’t doing the job, rainman doesn’t need a “fake” profile, he needs to change the real person to become more interesting, confident, and assertive.

                I suspect that online dating is also the problem. This guy needs to get out and talk to real women in real life, but I also suspect that he probably has very little experience doing that.

                But I doubt he’s going to take that to heart.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

                Reply

          • Lisa Says:

            I actually thought speed’s advice and insights were great. I was thinking more or less the same things when I was reading thru your posts.

            Don’t shoot the messenger!

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

            Reply

        • Chester Says:

          Speed, I’ll give you props on the advice you gave. You obviously spent some time on trying to help rainman. Too bad it fell on deaf ears.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

          Reply

        • Bree Says:

          Agree. He wants a caucasian trophy like his friends got. Now I’m not being racist here, as I saw the same thing among white (“international”) guys when I lived in Asia. It was a mark of status and acceptance among other expat men to have an Asian (in other words, LOCAL) girlfriend or wife, as some kind of proof of how cultured or established in the new environment they were. Never had I seen a society of men (white expats in this case) so desperate to be coupled up. It was like the stereotype we all have about women who think they’re NOTHING unless they’re in a relationship, lol.

          So yeah, that’s what rainman is reminding me of a little bit.

          That said, I’m positively sure that women aren’t contacting him because he’s unattractive or short or balding or over 35 or something physical and appearance related. I personally contact ANY race if he’s good-looking and I’m sure *most* other women feel the same.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

          Reply

    • C Says:

      The down votes are probably for not agreeing that you are shooting out of your league. I wouldnt worry too much about approval/disapproval from annonimous posters on the internets.

      I encountered a guy on ar message board about a year ago who after we developed a rapport asked for my feedback on his match profile. He said after 6 months on match, he had sent out about 200 emails and recieved no replies. He was a good looking single dad, professional, blond in his late 30s who was contacting women in their early to mid 30s. He was articulate and amiable and the only thing about his profile that i didnt like was that his main picture was dark and he was looking at the camera and offering it a glass of alcohol. He had no trouble meeting women in bars but the internet was a disaster for him. In his case, I dont think he was aiming out of his league. Something was putting women off about his profile and my guess is it was his profile picture. I hear he has since met a pretty single mom on match.

      You may want to have your profile professionally evaluated or maybe just focus on meeting single women in real life. As for the ethnic look, many women (white and otherwise) prefer to date within their own ethnicity but obviously not all. I think you may do better in situations where women can get to know you first before deciding if they are attracted to you (i.e. clubs, bars, speed dating, etc…), rather than on the internet where they can just filter you out.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

      Reply

      • rainman Says:

        C: Thanks for your observations, comments and suggestions.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

        Reply

      • Bree Says:

        Agree. A cagey photo that doesn’t really show what you look like will be ignored as well as photos that show you’re not that attractive. Cagey photos are sunglasses, hats, head to the side, too far away, in shadow, etc. When I see cagey photos I assume the guy isn’t attractive. Usually it’s right.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        Reply

  17. C Says:

    Dont freak out and make grand sweeping generalizations about dating over what one guy did or said. How many of the last 10 guys you chatted up online share this guys sentiment?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  18. nb1972 Says:

    I’ve been through this a few times, and it gets tedious. I’ve found that the fastest way to weed them out is to say “instead of more text/email back and forth, let me know when you’re available so we can see if there’s any mutual attraction”.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  19. C Says:

    Yes! and if they give you any variation on “I’m not ready yet”, launch immediately. Not ready for what? A beer and 60 minutes of chatting? Done. Bye bye. Have a nice life.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  20. Claire Says:

    Well I would have to disagree about the over 40 and 2-3 dates a week. No I do not have casual sex, but I am in my mid-forties and do get offers of dates 2-3 times a week. That being said, I do not usually go out 2-3 times a week. I think what you are saying depends on the location where you live. I live in a large city so it is not only online dating, but day to day interactions. It also depends on the time of the year–some months only 3 dates :)

    I think saying that someone who gets asked out 2-3 times a week is having casual sex or lying is not accurate. I do enjoy your blog and there is a lot of good advice, but like anything I do not agree with all of it.

    Your article about guys bringing up sex on the first date with the exception of:
    4. These women are picking men based on looks and charm, and probably delving out of their league a bit, and the men are taking them out hoping they can get them in to bed with no interest in anything more. Therefore they don’t care if they offend the ladies with their sexual commentary.

    5. These women are all making this all up so that they sound less rigid and picky.

    Yes many of them do–and it is not because they are out of my league–I get this from guys well into there 50’s (10 or more years my senior)–I am tall, slender and by most considered quite attractive–they are usually slightly overweight, lacking muscle tone, etc. I do not dress provocatively at all. I think sometimes it is more that a guy realizes you are out of his league so he decides to go for it regardless of the rejection.

    There has also been a lot of research that shows how online dating contributes to the sense of entitlement that men have about women and their bodies. Not all men are like this, but those that are online dating can contribute significantly to this belief.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    Reply

Leave a Reply

© 2013-2017 And That's Why You're Single All Rights Reserved