Women Over 35: Stop Trying To Prove You’re An Exception To The Rule #atwys

Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): Doodlewoman-using-laptop-pm-thumb-270x270
Comment: So I just discovered your website a week ago and honestly I think you are a goddess. Anyone that knows me knows I don’t blow smoke, but whatever :)

I am 41. I’ve noticed that you’ve said a lot that women my age won’t get men their own age… but I can’t recall yet seeing (if?) there is a breakdown of the specific reasons in order.  eg. looks/age/children/finances/situation … does that make sense?  Is there an algorithm aside from “men your age don’t want you” ?

Thus far I am finding that most men (without kids and with) are saying that it’s a plus that a) I don’t have children and b) I don’t want children (I probably did, it’s just not viable now). And another regular feedback is that I don’t “interview” them as other women are doing. Perhaps they are blowing smoke :)

I guess what I am wondering is that … I understand and accept what you say about men my age and younger – it’s just not what it seems I have been encountering myself. That being said I don’t live in a big city, and am already comfortable with dating 50 year olds – and enjoying it!

Am I clueless/deluded?
Age: 41
City: Atlanta
State: GA

What I’ve said is that women your/my age have difficulty getting men their age to date them seriously. There’s literally a zero degree of difficulty involved with getting a 35-45 to date me for a few months or have sex with me. But those guys are not dating me with any kind of serious intentions involved. None. Your story is not any kind of empirical evidence that you’re a special snowflake. Sorry to stick a pin in your humblebrag.

We’ve discussed this before…who we can pull for a casual relationship is often in a higher league than what we could pull when looking for something serious. This is why I get all eye-rolly at all the stories from women “of a certain age” who brag about getting guys in their twenties from OKCupid to bang them, as thought that’s concrete proof of their desirability. Sorry. It’s not. I cringe every time I hear one of those stories and get second hand embarrassment for those women. It’s such a sad and pathetic cycle that continuously plays out on the Interwebs. Offer sex, you’ll get sex. You don’t even have to be all that attractive to get it. A lot if not most men will lower their standards dramatically depending on their intentions and options. If women would just embrace this concept instead of trying to fight against it, their dating frustrations would evaporate. Why did he fade? Oh, he was never all that interested. Why did he say all those things? Oh, he was never really interested. Why did he have sex with me and never call? Oh, HE WAS NEVER REALLY INTERESTED.

Perhaps they are blowing smoke :)

Yep. That’s probably exactly what they’re doing. While there might be the occasional man your age who is not deterred by your age, most men will be. I don’t know what the algorithm is. You have to be extraordinarily attractive or bring with you some kind of status or cache for a man to overlook your age. Even the ones who don’t want children prefer someone younger. They just do. Can we blame the patriarchy? Sure. Go ahead if it makes you feel better, even though many women are guilty of the exact same prejudice. We like the younger ones because the younger ones look, act, and most definitely fuck better. They refuse to date men their age or older, but they can explain it away by talking about wanting someone vibrant and active. They just “relate” better to younger guys. Okay. Sure.

You want a serious relationship? Go for a guy in his late forties or older. Stop trying to prove you’re an exception to the rule. There. Done. Free advice from me to you.

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77 Responses to “Women Over 35: Stop Trying To Prove You’re An Exception To The Rule #atwys”

  1. HammersAndNails Says:

    Patriarchy has nothing to do with it. Men value youth, beauty, and flexibility more highly than women do, generally. Women value resources, confidence, stability more than men do, generally.

    The problem here is not that some women want youth and beauty, the problem , is unlike the guys, they don’t want to pay for it, and don’t recognize the market forces. When you date a man the same age as you, you are really dating a man for whom you are older than many of his options, which is what he sees. What is it that you bring to the table that they don’t? IS that something he actually wants? When most women answer this question it’s clear they have never even given a single thought to what men want vs what they think is important about themselves. Are you willing to accept that he’s not really going to be interested in bringing his A+ game like he would for that hot 28 year old or you still expect all the charm and elaborate courting?

    When a 38 year old guy dates a 28 year old bartender, he typically knows what he’s getting himself into. He knows he’s the breadwinner. He knows he’s going to have to go out drinking till 3 on a tuesday every now and then to not look lame even though he has work and is kinda over it. He knows there are a line of guys trying to bang his GF every day at work. He’s willing to pay the cost to have what he wants.

    Half of knowing what you want is knowing what you have to give to get it.

    • Doodle Says:

      That is soooo depressing LOL.

    • Eliza Says:

      And when a 48 or 50 year old man wants to date a 30 something year old woman – he should also know to be on board with “getting on the daddy track!” That’s right, you want to date a younger woman – because you feel entitled to that…there is a trade off there. A woman in her 40s and 50’s can be vibrant and active as well. I agree it’s just a bullshit excuse for wanting to date much younger…and that applies to women wanting to date younger men. It’s all about the “EGO”. And wanting that Prize. That’s precisely why the discussion of “age” surfaces within minutes of meeting…when men can’t pinpoint how old a woman is. When an older man knows – he is much older–guess what? That “age” topic is no longer of interest. He no longer wants to emphasize that he is a 50 year old man, trying to date a 30 year old woman. It’s all about the fragile ego.

      • mindstar Says:

        I’m sure he’ll just love being referred to as grandpa by strangers when’s he’s 60 and the child is 10. Or will Social Security be paying for the child’s Sweet Sixteen party?

        Ideally a parent should be able to be physically active with their children. Hard to do if there’s so big an age gap.

  2. AC Says:

    To the OP:

    Ask yourself the following. When you see a 40-year-old man on okcupid who’s age range for women is 28-40, what do you think?

    Delusional. Correct?

    Flip that around. When a man sees a 40-year-old woman looking for guys age 32-42, what do we think?


    And these same people wonder why they can’t find anyone for that elusive LTR.

    • Nicole Says:

      “Ask yourself the following. When you see a 40-year-old man on okcupid who’s age range for women is 28-40, what do you think?”

      I never thought of those guys as delusional. At least, not if they were in good shape and had money. To be honest, I gave them props for extending their desired age range all the way up to their own age (even the ones who were only doing it to look good at least cared about not coming across as total assholes, lol).

      Seems like most guys would prefer someone 3 – 10 years younger, at least based on what I saw on OKC. By the time I’d been dating online a couple of months, I was instantly skeptical of any guy who DIDN’T have an age preference that started at least 5 years below their age. As in, do they have a cougar fetish, or is something wrong with them that they can’t pull younger women?

      What I don’t get is why a 40 year old woman would be looking for a serious relationship with a guy in his 20s or early 30s. Casual sex, a fun FWB – sure, go for it. But long term? So many of the guys that age – to be fair, girls too – are still figuring themselves out and have no idea where they will be in 5 years. As a woman in my mid thirties, I found that frustrating, and didn’t want to waste my time. Contrast that with a 40 year old who is established in his career, and knows what he wants out of life… Just never understood the appeal of a LTR with a much younger guy.

      • Doodle Says:

        I rule out any man my age or older that has 25 or lower as his lower age limit… I laugh at the ones that have 18 as the lowest age. I think any man wanting to date a 25 year old (or younger) is not looking for a long term relationship of equals :) In fact I think it points to someone with control issues!

      • C Says:

        “What I don’t get is why a 40 year old woman would be looking for a serious relationship with a guy in his 20s or early 30s”

        For the same reason anyone looks for anything: because they like what they like.

        I know men in their mid 30s to mid 40s who were seriously involved with or even married college girls. I don’t know why they would want that but they do and I would assume older women want younger men for the same reasons. My mother being one of these people. I recall a conversation when she encouraged me to date younger. When I said, “but they are like kids” she replied, “They don’t get better, they just get old”. So there you go. That’s why 40 year olds want to date 28 year olds.

        I know several successful relationships and long term marriages where the woman was anywhere from 8 to 19 years older then her husband. I also know a decent number of very happy same age marriages where the woman earned several times her husbands income.

        I guess its about volume. Want volume? Go with the status quo. Want what you want, be prepared to wait and work for it.

        • Doodle Says:

          I don’t think I could stand the idea of dating a 20 something. I mean… I’d enjoy the sex, as long as they kept quiet in between rounds :D

          Each to their own though… every pot has a lid :)

          • C Says:

            Ha I hear ya. The problem with a much younger man is that you have to talk to them eventually. Lol. But really, if a couple is happy, who’s to judge?!

            For you, I would say look for what you like. I would hope most men our age are past the game playing phase. If they aren’t that interested, you’ll know soon enough.

            • Doodle Says:

              Yes I agree – as long as someone is happy and their relationship is working for them.. that’s all that matters… not anyone elses (unsolicited) opinion :)

              I am pretty openminded about who I’m open to dating… I figure that if what I’ve always done hasn’t worked, then maybe it’s time to try something new! :)

        • AC Says:

          Two questions:

          If a father gave the advice your mother gave you to his son what would you think?

          That marriage where the woman is 19 years older, what do you think is going to happen when he’s 40 and she’s 59?

    • Doodle Says:

      I think you missed the part where I said I am dating men in their 50s and very happy with it. I was just curious as to the men who are 41-45… whether they were just wasting time with me.

      I wouldn’t date a 32 year old if you paid me lol – pretty much anything with a 3 in front of it feels “icky” to me.

    • Eliza Says:

      Delusional ends up in a nursing home at the age of 70. Want to feed that ridiculous ego by dating much younger…enjoy, bravo, get to it. But don’t cry when you can’t get that LTR you seemingly search for.

  3. D. Says:

    To answer the OP’s original question, I can only speak for my age group (mid-to-late 30s) and guess at the attitudes of men in their 40s and beyond. But, generally speaking, I think the following at least somewhat explains the reasons why guys prefer to date younger women.

    1. Looks. They don’t just want someone who looks hot. They want someone who looks like the younger version of hot. Or attractive. Or beautiful, or however you want to describe it. None of this is to say that women in their mid-to-late 30s and beyond cannot be physically attractive, hot, gorgeous, whatever you want to call it. They absolutely can be. But the guys who prefer to date younger, at least partially prefer to do it because they’re more attracted to the looks of a younger woman.

    2. Kids. If the guy is single and childless in his mid-30s or beyond AND he knows he wants kids, he is not interested in dating someone that the American Medical Association would term “advanced maternal age.” Yes, I know, fertility is not a fixed date, and I personally know two couples who had their first kid when the woman was around 37 and their second kid later. But realistically, if a guy meets you when you’re 38 or so, and he wants kids…it’s not gonna happen, or it may with some degree of difficulty. You have to assume that he’s not gonna knock you up on your first date, and you probably won’t get to a point where you want kids until, like, 2 years after you meet. So, now you’re 40 and trying to have your first kid. The guy looks at this situation and says “She’s awesome otherwise…but not right for me.” And he moves on to someone younger.

    3. This is probably the most important factor: Because they can. All of the above may be true, but it doesn’t mean shit if the guy can’t actually date a woman who’s younger than him. But they can. Blame whatever social dynamic you want, but a guy in his mid-30s up through his 40s can date a woman in her mid-to-late 20s no problem. So, if all of the above is true, why wouldn’t a guy try to date a woman who’s younger?

    Now, obviously, this isn’t all universal. Also, as Moxie notes, it describes the age range within which a guy is willing to get serious with someone. For casual dating and/or sex, the age range expands dramatically. Also, other factors can skew this. For example, a guy who doesn’t want kids may not have as many qualms about dating a woman in her mid-30s or beyond. Other guys might not be up for playing sugar-daddy and not want to support a 20-something who’s still getting established in their career. Or they may not want to deal with a 20-something who’s still going through a lot of the learning experiences they’ve already been through. Like I said, it’s not universal.

    But in broad strokes, those are the reasons I’ve seen why guys go for younger women and are less interested in women in their mid-30s and beyond for anything serious.

    • Doodle Says:

      Thanks :) I stay away from anyone who says the want kids.. or actually even if they say maybe/some day.

      I’ve had friends that say “my friend was 46 and had a kid!” – but honestly I think the idea of me trying now would be ridiculous. I mourned that when I hit 40.

      • D. Says:

        I suspect that probably makes you a more viable candidate for a guy in his 40s or 50s who knows he doesn’t want kids. They may still skew younger because they’re simply more attracted to younger women, but the kids thing is a real barrier for guys who know they definitely want kids, and ideally, their own biological kids (rather than, say, adopting).

        If you’re looking for something serious, I’d focus on the guys who have “Does not want children” on their profile and/or who make a point of stating their preference for no kids in their profiles.

        I wouldn’t say that any guy who’s in his 40s who gets in touch with you has zero interest in anything serious. But I think if you’re gonna date guys like that, you need to do so with the thought in the back of your mind that it may not get serious and he may only want something casual.

        The thing is, a dating situation can end for any number of reasons. Maybe the guy only wanted something casual. Maybe he just decided you guys weren’t a good fit. Maybe the chemistry started off good but fizzled for some reason he can’t put his finger on. Who the hell knows?

        I view a lot of Moxie’s advice as not necessarily prescriptive for your behavior as much as prescriptive for your mindset. You can go into a dating situation with someone who exhibits, if not red flags, at least yellow ones, and it can be fine….IF you do so with the right mindset.

        So, in your case, go ahead and date a guy your own age. Approach it with a positive attitude. Have fun with it. Maybe even hope that it could turn into something serious. But don’t necessarily invest emotionally too much or too quickly in it, since it’s entirely possible that the guy will evaporate on you.

        It’s like sleeping with someone early on. Go ahead and do it if you want to. Just do so with a clear mind, having evaluated the situation, and recognize that it could very well end up fizzling. If you’re cool with that, play ball. If not, steer clear.

  4. Alan Says:

    my early 40’s lady friend who moved to the big apple from atlanta in the not-too-distant past knows Doodle’s territory well and advises extending her target dating range to at least the mid-50’s if she is truly interested in long term potential.

    • Doodle Says:

      Already dating up to the mid 50s…(late 50s was a bit too challenging).

      I am seeing 2 men right now that are both 51, a 43 year old, and a 41 year old. The 41 year old is the one that seems most into me… but he’s a single dad of 2 young kids so I’m guessing that limits his options quite substantially! lol :)

      • C Says:

        Maybe. Maybe not. You really never know. Not too long after my 39 year old female friend postponed her wedding to her gorgeous 26 year old fiancé because she was pregnant with the first of their two children, I was 37 and head over heels for a 48 year old who was trying to play me college style and work me into his “rotation”.

        I was 38 when I started dating my 42 year old fiancé. So to answer your question, yes, a 41 year old can take you seriously just as easily as a 51 year old can play you, but it is a bit disingenuous to ask when you aren’t serious about any of them either.

        • Doodle Says:

          Ahh that’s lovely for your friend – and congrats on your engagement!! :)

          I know what you mean about the older/younger – it’s definitely wise to keep it on a case by case basis I think.

          Are you saying I’m not serious about the guys I am seeing? The 41 year old is my fave, and one of the 51 year olds is 2nd fave. The other Mr 51 I think just wants arm candy, and Mr 43 is using me for sex lol. (Not complaining *too* hard about that one LOL).

          I’d love for one of them (Mr 41 to be specific) to ask me to be exclusive so I can just be done with this whole thing. He took his profile down already and made comments about the fact I was still logging into the site…. :)

          • C Says:

            Thanks! And thanks on behalf of my friend :). I’m sure she never saw any of it coming when she started dating her “martial arts instructor” a couple of years earlier.

            I guess I presumed you were feeling out the commitment level of the guys you were dating without committing to them. But that’s fair. Playing the wait and see game.

            When I was out in the field, I didn’t particularly see older men as more or less willing to commit then men my own age. It seemed like a lot of guys who had already had the family were just looking for “fun”. It seemed like whether or not a man pursued a relationship with me had more to do with where he was in life and whether or not he was the type of guy who liked being in a relationship or marriage.

            Its entirely possible that your 41 year old single dad is more in a place to be interested in having a family then the 43 year old bachelor or the 51 year old with adult children.

            From my experience, most of the relationship minded guys I came across weren’t interested in spending a lot of time on a dead end relationship, but that’s just me.

            Good luck with the 41 year old cutie!

  5. fuzzilla Says:

    Does Doodle want a serious relationship or just to “get” younger guys? Sure, sure, Occam’s razor says most women want the former, but it isn’t specified.

    I want someone who wants me, so I’ll be happily partying with the divorced dads, thanks.

    • Doodle Says:

      Don’t want younger guys – I was asking about men my age – aka 41 to 45.

      I want someone that wants me too :) , which is why I was asking… wondered if I should just cut the men my age loose. The 41 year old is my fave by far, and he has 2 young children – so if I’m lucky I may get to live out some maternal feelings too instead of trying to spawn my own from my old crazy cat spinster loins ;)

      • Nicole Says:

        Doodle, you sound very sweet and I don’t mean to offend or judge. But please don’t date men with kids because you want a chance to act out your maternal urges.

        Don’t get me wrong, dating someone who has children can be fun if you enjoy kids. But you aren’t ever going to be their mom, and you probably won’t have a real mother-type relationship with them for years (if ever). And that’s a good thing – until you are positive that you’re willing to be a permanent part of their lives, you don’t want them to attach to you that way.

        I say this as someone who has been on both sides of this situation – I was raised by a single dad for most of my childhood, and I’m currently dating a guy who’s divorced with 2 young kids. I’ve also worked with kids for 15 years, and I’ve seen plenty of fallout from situations where kids felt pressured to accept a new person as a parent figure too soon. And, even worse, situations where kids did start to see a parent’s partner as a mom/dad and then lost that person when the adults’ relationship ended.

        I can’t tell if you were just throwing that comment out as kind of a joke … Just wanted to say, as someone who’s been there, there are definite pluses about dating dads, but it’s complicated and nothing like having kids of your own.

        • Doodle Says:

          Thanks – I really appreciate your input :)

          If I date this chap seriously it will be the first single dad I’ve dated. Yes I know I won’t be their mum .. but part of accepting “I’ll never have kids” included the concern that I wouldn’t be a good mother – so probably more cool aunt than mum-type-figure :) I really enjoy lovin’ on my friends kids and nieces and nephews :)

          It definitely concerns me that he would dump me if the kids did not accept me… as well as the other points you raised… but this dating malarkey is teaching me to take one day at a time… que sera sera… a rolling stone gathers no mo.. wait. lol.

          But thank you – and any other tips or insights you think of are greatly appreciated! :)

        • fuzzilla Says:

          It’s bad to rush anything in a relationship, and yes, that goes double or triple if kids are involved.

          I figure it’s a case by case thing if I’ll get to fulfill any “maternal urges.” The guy I’m dating right now has a 17-year-old kid who lives out of state. The main draw for me, as far as those particular demographic check boxes – age appropriate, and the kids-or-not thing is out of his system.

          • Doodle Says:

            Pretty much all the men that contact me generally state at some point the fact that I have no kids and don’t want kids is a big positive.

            One of the 51 year olds has grown kids away from home, and the other has a 9 yr old boy part time. I don’t know – I’m just trying to be philosophical about the whole thing…and as you say not rush it :) … and then the right person will just “fit” and vice versa – hopefully that’s not too Pollyanna-ish lol

            • Nicole Says:

              I don’t think it’s Pollyanna – ish at all … Or if it is, that’s a good thing :)

              Being open to dating guys who have kids but don’t want any more definitely opens up your dating pool. A lot of women either really want kids of their own or don’t want to deal with someone else’s, so these guys get overlooked a lot. I was in the same position as you and I met a ton of great guys.

              Sounds like you have a great attitude and are enjoying dating, which is great. And rare to find in letters to this blog, lol.

              • Doodle Says:

                I feel like I’ve struck gold with Mr 41 – as you say… I think he’s struggled to find a woman that doesn’t want kids or will accept them.

                Those stoopid women lol – I can’t believe my lucky stars that I found him but I’m glad I have :)

                And thanks for the compliment about my attitude – I try. Thankfully today is not one of my “durnit I’m giving up and getting 100 cats or becoming a Lesbian (or both lol) and THAT’S FINAL!!!” days :D

        • HammersAndNails Says:

          Couldn’t disagree more. That’s exactly who should be dating people with kids. Don’t get all philosophical about it.

          Being a step parent can be a big deal and quite fulfilling. Being a full surrogate parent if the other is out of the picture is also a posibility.

          “But you aren’t ever going to be their mom, and you probably won’t have a real mother-type relationship with them for years (if ever).”

          I know *plenty* of people, myself including who consider a step parent their real/only parent, and many more who have loving strong relationships. The kids are young.

          • Nicole Says:

            H and N, it’s great that you had such a positive experience. I loved some of my dad’s girlfriends and hated others (sadly, the one he married was in the latter category).

            Sometimes I forget how skewed my perspective is from working with high-risk kids. I see kids every day who are regressing and acting out because their mom or dad finds or loses a partner and doesn’t know how to help the child adjust. On the other hand… I see kids every day regressing and acting out because someone is wearing a different colored shirt or we ran out of apple juice. Well-adjusted kids with supportive and strong parents are probably going to react very differently than “my” kids.

            It really is a case by case basis, I think. Mostly I just worried that the OP would try to rush a mommy role with this guy’s kids, instead of letting the relationship evolve naturally into whatever’s right for her, the kids, and their dad (and mom, if she’s around).

            Of course, I’m jumping the gun a little… She says this guy is her favorite of all the guys she’s dating right now and I’m already doing family therapy ;)

          • Doodle Says:

            “I know *plenty* of people, myself including who consider a step parent their real/only parent”

            Ditto! :)

            “Being a step parent can be a big deal and quite fulfilling”

            That’s what I am hoping for… of course I am getting the cart before the horse at this stage lol

  6. Doodle Says:

    So the bottom line is that any man that’s 41-45 that’s contacting me will not want a long term relationship with me – I get it :)

    Thanks :)

    • Yvonne Says:

      I definitely don’t agree with that unless the man wants kids. The 41 year old already has kids, so no worries there. As to whether or not the kids would accept you, only time will tell.

      About half my friends/acquaintances are in relationships with, or married to, men up to 10-12 years younger. I also know a couple of men who are married to women 20 years younger, and both have young kids. Most are within 5 years of their partner’s age either way, however.

      • Doodle Says:

        Ok thank you :)

        Oh wow! Young kids with each other? Or with a prior partner?

        I could see a woman 25-35 being with a guy 20 years older.. but me with a 61 year old? lol. Nope.

        That being said I’ve had 78 yr old men contact me – wtf? LOL

        I’d be the next Anna Nicole Smith :)

  7. Tinker Says:

    Where exactly is the OP’s humblebrag? She asked about dating men her own age, not younger. She also dates men over 10 years her senior. I know you love your hammer Moxie, but this wasnt a nail.

    • Doodle Says:

      Thank you :) :) lol

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Seeing as how she’s haunted the comments and replied to every single one, I’m feel pretty confident in my original opinion that she was just looking for attention.

      • Doodle Says:

        lol – I’ve been reading and liking peoples old comments in the last few days too.

        I wrote in because I want/value peoples opinions including your own… what would be the point in writing for advice and then not reading the comments and/or seeking clarification etc? lol

        Honestly I have struggled a lot with the dating world here because it feels so diametrically opposed to what my experience of dating was like in the UK. That’s how/why I found your site :)

        I can hear the sound of my own voice any time! And so can all my cats :D

      • HammersAndNails Says:

        Why do you hate people who write in and then make the comments interactive so much?

        I think it’s way more fun, and I definitely like doodle and think she has a great attitude.

  8. AC Says:

    Yet again we have a case of the OP hijacking the thread.

  9. Ashley Says:

    I have noticed a rise in younger men that are willing to date older women. In fact, I know quite a few 20-something men that prefer women in their 30s and 40s rather than girls their own age. I am often interested into what is behind this because I am a woman that seems to regularly attract men 10 years younger than myself. Has anyone else noticed this Ashton/Demi trend? Is it just a trend, or something more?

    • Joey Giraud Says:

      My first wife was 37, I was 27. She was more sophisticated and worldly and also really seemed to be into me, coming close to the “grab by hair and drag into cave” cliche.

      My motivation: education and ego boost.

      Her motivation: last ditch attempt to have children.

      Duration of marriage: 1-1/2 years. no kids.

      Whew. Dodged a bullet there. Silly boy.

  10. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “I know quite a few 20-something men that prefer women in their 30s and 40s rather than girls their own age.”

    Prefer them for what, exactly?

    It’s not a new trend. When there’s chum in the water, the sharks will feed.

  11. AC Says:

    The answer is no. Those 20-something’s are not looking for LTR’s from women 10-years their senior. Biologically it makes no sense. Those who are haven’t put much thought into the big picture.

    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Almost all the available very young women in my circles struck me as ridiculous and bubble-headed. I had this absurd notion that I should be able to talk about serious matters with a girlfriend, and only found a very few who could, all above 22 years in age.

      I guess I still have that absurd notion, and it’s not helping matters, even at 53.

  12. Ashley Says:

    If children are important the picture, I can agree. There’s a pressure for men to seek younger women on hopes of having better fertility chances. My experiences may be different because I am child free and I associate with people that are also child free or indifferent about having kids. When you take away that aspect, it really broadens the spectrum.

  13. LostSailor Says:

    I don’t really have much to add to Moxie and the commentariat.

    Doodle wanted to know if there is a formula or algorithm to attracting men her own age.


    But there are probabilities, as most have point out. Historically, the age differential between spouses–a decent indicator of preference–grew from about 2 years in the early last century to about 3-6 years with the man being older. Whether that still holds true in our fractured mating paradigm, I don’t know, but it’s probably a good guideline.

    Doodle also asked if there was a breakdown of specific reasons in order for this along the lines of looks/age/children/situation. The answer is:

    Yes. All of the above. But not in order. All those things are important, but will vary among men.

    My advice is to stop over-analyzing everything. Stop second- or third-guessing everything. Doodle is already comfortable dating men her age or considerably older. She’s ahead of the game. The trick is to know–really know–what her relationship goals are and then go with the flow, up to a point. She mentions the great “41 year old” among others. So, go with that. But at some point you need to have the conversation to make sure you’re on the same page. If not, be prepared to let it all go.

    So, Am I clueless/deluded?

    I have no idea. Maybe not. But then, you give no indication of your relationship history, which, frankly, is crucial information to determine the final question…

    • Doodle Says:

      Gosh thank you for understanding… I think I hadn’t expressed my question as well as I had hoped :)

      Now if you could get me to stop over-analyzing everything I will give you a million dollars ;) But… I am trying :)

      Umm…. moved to the US 6 years ago to marry an American man… who neglected to share pre-marriage that he had a 20 year hooker habit he had no intention of quitting. When I found him out (thankfully very quickly) the beatings commenced. Disentangled from him ~1 year later and took a 5 year hiatus from dating.

      Just started trying to date again as of ~2 months ago.. I feel incredibly clueless and out of the game. And I messed up BIG time the last time…hence the overanalysing this time… :)

      It’s also definitely a very different landscape here than in the UK, and I am sure the change in age bracket makes a difference too! Not sure if that info helps or not?!

      • LostSailor Says:

        Ah, Doodle. If I could get any woman, including you, to stop over-analyzing, I would indeed deserve a million dollars. Got a down-payment?

        American men aren’t all that different from British men, we just like different sports and tend not to beat each other to death after or during sporting events. Mostly. I really don’t think the age thing is all that different between the cultures.

        But you don’t really reveal the whole thing about your past relationships. What you do reveal only leaves more questions. You moved here with the intention of marrying a man that you apparently didn’t really know all that well, given that he had a “hooker habit” (which is not really that common) and was violent. That says something. What it says I can’t say without knowing more of your relationship history prior to that. Such as whether you’ve had any reasonably successful long term relationships and how they ended, or just a series of serial short-term things. It all does matter.

        After your experience coming here, it’s understandable that you’d be leery of dating, but you’ve only been at it 2 months. At this point, just focus on having fun and see what happens. Don’t rush into anything. Really, don’t. This shit takes time…

        • Doodle Says:

          Prior to him were several long term relationships with really sweet guys that I ultimately didn’t think I could spend “forever” with.

          He and I dated long distance for 2 years before I moved here. We emailed and talked on the phone daily and visited each other around every 6-8 weeks over those 2 years. Honestly I think I let the fact that he was an Assistant District Attorney and hardcore Baptist (along with the lovebombing) blind me to reality. I won’t make that mistake again :)

          But yes – I hear your advice and will follow as best I can.

          The check is in the mail for that downpayment… ;)

          • LostSailor Says:

            Honestly I think I let the fact that he was an Assistant District Attorney and hardcore Baptist (along with the lovebombing) blind me to reality.

            An ADA and a hardcore Baptist? For me, two huge red flags right there. No wonder he had a hooker habit and was violent. I’m not trying to bash the South–I once married a Southern girl–but some of the stereotypes are true.

            Be careful out there…

      • Nicole Says:

        Wow Doodle, after hearing a little of the backstory, I am even more impressed with your attitude. I hope you had an opportunity for counseling after that relationship, and that you have friends and family supporting you. Getting back into dating after 5 years is going to be fun but also very overwhelming.

        And as for the over analyzing, I do it too… In fact, when I run out of shit to overanalyze in my own relationship, I come here and do it to other people’s lives!

        • Joey Giraud Says:

          Doodle isn’t over-analyzing at all.

          It’s only over-analyzing when you already figured out answer.

  14. Stela Says:

    I refuse to believe this age thing. But its probably because I am 35 and my BF is 28 and we are serious … :)

    • AC Says:

      And when he’s 35, you’ll be 42. When he’s 42, you’ll be…

      You see where this is going? A few years is no big deal. 5-10 is stretching it. More than 10?…I don’t see the appeal from a mans POV.

      • Yvonne Says:

        Younger guys are a lot more open to dating older women. A man I know, who married a woman 7 years older when he was in his early twenties told me that at that age, an older woman seemed “hot” and interesting. Now divorced and 50-something, he ‘s looking for younger women. I don’t see too many 55 year old men seeking out 62 year old women, unfortunately. And that has nothing to do with having kids.

        Then again, I’m in my fifties and would also “prefer” someone around my own age or a bit younger. But men my age are often looking for 10-15 years younger (whether they end up getting that or not…)

        • HammersAndNails Says:

          Thats a guy with a fetish, not a trend.

        • Joey Giraud Says:

          My first wife was 10 years older. I was 27.

          A serious lover was 7 years older. I was 31.

          Otherwise mostly my own age. Second wife 2 years younger.

          But now at 53, woman my own age are not generally visually or sexually appealing. And having “fallen” for older women when I was younger, my ego or self-respect or whatever it is, it’s telling me she should be fairly younger then me.

          There you have it. A 50 something man admitting that it’s mostly about ego. Combined with not feeling nearly as much need to have a woman at all.

          Of course, if a 53 year old reasonably fit woman turned up who was relaxed, open-minded, not-neurotic, not-narcissistic and capable of genuine emotional understanding and support, *and* was interested in me and unafraid to show it, I wouldn’t care in the least about any of that age stuff. I would be thrilled.

  15. AC Says:

    “A man I know, who married a woman 7 years older when he was in his early twenties told me that at that age, an older woman seemed “hot” and interesting. Now divorced and 50-something, he ‘s looking for younger women.”

    My point exactly

    ” But men my age are often looking for 10-15 years younger (whether they end up getting that or not…)”

    These are the men that women who date online complain about- and rightfully so.

    • Nicole Says:

      I’m not sure why women feel like they need to complain about guys who want younger women. The ones who can get them should feel free to date younger if that’s what they prefer. And the ones who want younger women but get rejected by those girls… They’re only hurting themselves. I can see feeling bad for them, but no reason to bother resenting them.

      • AC Says:

        “I’m not sure why women feel like they need to complain about guys who want younger women. The ones who can get them should feel free to date younger if that’s what they prefer.”

        Thank you Nicole for being someone who gets it. They complain because they’re bitter. It’s not that they don’t get it- they choose not to.

        Willful ignorance. Hence the thumbs down parties.

        • C Says:

          Its the same reason unattractive so called “nice guys” resent attractive women who dont want them or the poor hate the affluent. Human nature I suppose.

      • Joey Giraud Says:

        Have we forgotten that in High School, it was unheard of for a girl to date younger? And the most “desirable” girls dated college guys?

        I guess the ideals of equality and gender neutrality have obscured these hard lessons of youth.

        I’ve gotten some interest from much-too-young women recently, and while it’s a bit of an ego boost that I really don’t need, it’s amazing that a girl *would* flirt with an obviously too-old-for-her man.

    • HammersAndNails Says:

      Rightfully so because….. you don’t like it?

    • C Says:

      A wide age gap in either direction can be problematic. I’ve known several women to lament that their husband is old or slowing down or has stopped being sexually attractive to them. I’m not sure how often marriages end strictly due to the age gap.

      I think Yvonne is right. Theres an age both genders get to when more often then not, both would prefer someone younger and hotter.

  16. Erine Says:

    Did Moxie just coin the new amazing phrase “second hand embarrassment”? Love it and have definitely felt it many times (as I’m sure some have felt for me too).

  17. J Says:

    As a man who only dates older women I can give you reasons why a man might be attracted to older women. Some men like the maturity of an older woman. I personally love the maturity of an older woman and I have come to learn that the women I have dated that are 3-5 years older are less clingy and in a lot of cases more sure of what they want. I like a woman who can be a successful career oriented person just as much as I try to be. They say women want a guy with money and confidence? Sometimes a guy wants that from his woman. And sometimes a woman wants a guy that looks hot. It’s a case by case basis. I have only dated older but if the right girl came around that was younger I would likely pursue dating her.

    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Yeah, I was in your position at one time in my life. I understand completely.

      It also makes me feel like I was such a clueless loser at that age. Not saying that’s my opinion, just a feeling.

  18. Lisa Says:

    I’ve been reading thru this pretty intently, and I still don’t understand the question or the problem ort he point…

    There obviously are successful relationships out there where the woman is older and the man is younger. So it does happen. If you can see the truth in that emprical evidence why are you doubting it?

    Different ppl have different needs and different priorities (kids, no kids, good looks, money, chemistry, whatever) so the “algorithm” will also be different. I would think that would also be obvious.

    I’m just going to mentally file this one away as a nonquestion on a topic that’s just fun to talk about…

  19. Lisa Says:

    Regarding childless ppl dating ppl with kids to fullfil some kind of untapped parental desires…yes, of course, to some extent, you will be able to fullfil those. The extent to which you will depends on factors like the age of the kids, the competence of the single parent, whether or not the other parent is in the picture and how much, the particular needs of the child, your natural parenting ability and so many other things.

  20. Jacinta Says:

    IDK where these “statistics” are coming from but speaking anectdotally: I’m a 40-year-old woman with a child (gasp!); I’ve dated guys my own age since I got divorced 5 years ago. I’ve been with my current boyfriend for over 2 years; we recently got engaged and live together. He’s 2 years younger than I am. Before him I dated a guy who was 10 years younger than me for 5 months and I ended it when I met my current BF. I don’t think I’m “special”….I’ve always dated guys my own age or 2-3 years younger and nothing has changed since I turned 35 and “hit the wall.” :-) Most of my same-aged female friends have been married for years, but the few single/divorced women I know also date guys their own age, not older.

    The majority of men I’ve met who are just past or approaching 40 have already had children and are divorced, or say they are not sure if they want children. My ex-husband (3 years younger than me) has been dating a 42-year-old woman for a year or so and they seem pretty serious.

    I really don’t think there’s a huge pool of late-30s, early-40s guys who have a sudden, burning desire to have children and therefore will only get serious with a younger woman. Also, not every woman “of a certain age” WANTS to get marred, no matter if the guy she’s with does or not. So if she chooses to do the “casual thing” and an 25-year-old who she finds attractive and fun wants the same thing, why SHOULDN’T she go for it? Further, when I was in my 20s/30s my friends and I tended to date guys our own age, never guys 10 years older, and I think the majority of older men realize that.

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