Who Has Better Luck Dating Online – Men or Women?

From now until further notice, I’m mostly going to be re-posting popular posts from the past. If a lettero-DATING-PROFILE-TIPS-ONLINE-DATING-facebook comes with a particularly interesting angle, I will post it and write a response. I need a break.  Enjoy!

This was originally posted in March of 2012.

 

Don’t act like the ‘chubby’ girls or the ‘older’ girls get NO action online. Do some homework: ask all of  your chubby and older girlfriends how many emails they get online. I bet it’s a good amount. – Dark Sarcasm

 

Um, I’m 43 years old. I’m in good shape, but I’m definitely not slender. When I was actively using OK Cupid for dating purposes, I’d post a profile and get about 50 emails in the first 3-5 days. That would drop off to 25 by week two. 10 or so by week 3. And then once I hit the one month mark I’d get maybe 3 emails a week for a couple weeks, even when I’d update my profile.

Of those emails, at least 40% of them were from men that were 10+ years above or below my age range.

Then there was the 10% that were from the guys from Amsterdam or London asking me how the weather was over here.

Another 20% were from the guys who opened with, “Hey beautiful/sexy/love those lips” or some other socially inept comment.

The next 20% of emails came from men who were time wasters, put me on the back burner, sidelined me or were otherwise emotionally maladjusted.

Finally, there were 10% of men that I actually went out with. Of the 8 or so guys I went out with in the past year, 3 have turned in to something that lasted 2-5 months or are currently ongoing. Of those 3, 2 emailed me first. I emailed one. (That one lasted about 5 months or so.) In the past 7 months I’ve gone out with all of 3 guys from that site, two of which led to something ongoing but certainly did not/have not reached anything that would merit the  “omigod BOYFRIEND!” status. I focused only on the guys that I was genuinely excited to meet. Anybody that seemed like too much work, ambivalent, had too many options, etc were discarded. Why put myself through that? So I could say I had a date?

Please enlighten me as to how this myth that women get more messages started. Because that was not my experience. Maybe the women who are inordinately beautiful or the ones in their twenties get barraged with emails. But I certainly didn’t.

Having done a number of profile reviews for men in the last couple of weeks, I’ll say this. Many of these men all went for the “hot” woman. The woman who looked good but whose profile was so abysmally awful- COMPLETE WITH OBVIOUSLY OLD PHOTOS –  that it was clear all these guys cared about was dating someone “hot.” I had no problem alerting some of these men to the fact that they were average looking guys competing with all the other average looking guys. (FYI? The “hot” guys are not emailing those women. They’re too busy dating your female counterpart – the average woman who wants the “hot” guy.) I absolutely agree with Offensive Dan when he says people write obnoxious profiles with all kinds of disclaimers and shit tests HOPING to attract some dolt desperate enough to tolerate their self-important BS. Eventually they grow bored with those men and women and start all over. You’re not exactly missing out on your great true love if they don’t reply.

One guy showed me a woman’s profile and she was absolutely stunning. But to him, she was “a seven.” So maybe that, too, is part of the problem. You guys have such out of whack expectations that you think you’re emailing the average women when you’re not. I don’t know. What I do know is that you don’t appear to be having any luck. So something isn’t working.

If you guys out there complaining about how difficult and delusional women are are swinging for the fences all the time, then that explains why you’re not having much luck. Nobody who does that has much luck.

I find this constant complaint that women get sooo many more emails than men overwrought and baseless. You don’t know that. Or you’re basing that on the women that you meet, which are probably the women being contacted by everybody and using those sites for attention and free meals. In which case, you probably have really bad taste in women.

I don’t think the problem is that the women are all high maintenance. I think part of the problem is that you guys who often complain go for the “hot” woman because she’s attractive, not really understanding that you have no shot in the first place.

Like someone recently said, just because someone is attractive doesn’t mean you have to meet them. Isn’t it possible that that that is your problem? That you’re all going out with women out of your league because they’re attractive, ignoring all the red flags in their profile?

Or maybe you’re just denying what your true audience is?

Or maybe you’re just not that attractive or bring much to the table?

Finally, why care so much about all those people who won’t give you a  chance? If you think they’re so difficult and shallow, then why even care? That makes no sense.

 

ETA AUGUST 2014: Can we please discuss the idiots who close their profile by saying that they don’t plan on sending out many if any messages, and so if you want to talk with them you’re going to have to email them? I’m genuinely curious what is behind this logic. Is it reverse psychology? Negging? Just your garden variety entitlement and douchebaggery? What?

 

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31 Responses to “Who Has Better Luck Dating Online – Men or Women?”

  1. Damien Says:

    Based on Moxie’s stats, she seems to be doing much better than men. Of the guys I know, including me, virtually no one contacts our profiles. Of the messages we send out, less than 2-10% reply, depending on age and other factors.

    I did an experiment where I posted a profile of a good looking male model and had a well written profile. That guy got about 5-10 responses a week, half of which were from women who I would never date myself and the other half reeked of being time wasters. Maybe other women were intimidated or wondered why someone that good looking would need to be online. When this dude emailed women below his league, he got responses that were either skeptical of why he was contacting them, or were from women who were clueless. When he contacted women within his league or better, the response was like “prove to me you are worth my time.” My conclusion from that experiment was that if a guy was good looking, he could go online and score lots of flings with women below his league. When he hit within his own league, things seemed harder.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      You don’t seem to be including in your “experiment” all the woman who looked at your profile and knew it was a fake. That’s why those experiments are so faulty. One right click on an image and you can do a reverse search of the photo and find out it’s a stock photo. Cover blown. Experiment over. Even if they don’t do a reverse image search, it’s still pretty obvious to tell a fake profile.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 7

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      • Lele Says:

        > Even if they don’t do a reverse image search, it’s still pretty obvious to tell a fake profile.

        Not really. I could go ahead and change my photos with fake ones (not available via a reverse image search). How would you know that my profile is fake? There would be no way. Women overrate their “sixth sense”. I have had proof of this now and again.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3

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    • myself Says:

      We know fake profiles when we see them. And most of us aren’t stupid enough to go near them.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3

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    • C Says:

      Yeah, when a guy only posts “professional” or work related photos, its obviously a fake.

      A better experiment is to get several pirctures of a very good looking friend of yours. That said, not all women go for well spoken model types. I had a guy who claimed to be a model chat me up. Meh. Pretty but dull. Not interested. I prefer adventurous and nerdy.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

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  2. John Says:

    First Moxie says this:
    “When I was actively using OK Cupid for dating purposes, I’d post a profile and get about 50 emails in the first 3-5 days”

    Then she asks this:
    “Please enlighten me as to how this myth that women get more messages started. Because that was not my experience”

    When the average guy joins a dating website, he doesn’t get 50 emails in the first week.

    Does that answer your question as to how the myth started that women get more messages?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 50 Thumb down 1

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    • Stoney Junior Says:

      Exactly. For men, its a numbers game. Contact about 200 women and get about 8 responses back and only 2 of them turned into somewhat interesting conversation.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

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    • Donnie K Says:

      When the average guy joins a dating website, he doesn’t get 50 emails in the first week.

      I’ll do you one better. The average guy doesn’t get 50 emails in a year. By that I mean, women emailing us cold call style.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 1

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      • Knightdrew Says:

        An ugly woman can get a handsome or average looking man messaging her first everyday

        While even a very handsome man would only get a message from a woman every 9 months. If he messages women first, he will get even way less luck.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6

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  3. JKL Says:

    Okcupid did a study of its users and it’s not a myth, most men are lucky to get 1+ message a week. Here something you could do, ask all your girlfriends who many men they have asked out on a date or better still ask every man you know how many times they have been asked on a date, the average will be close to zero.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0

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    • Steve Says:

      I thought I posted the results with a link, unless it was deleted. Maybe we are not allowed to post links. Anyway, the results after 4 months of the experimental profiles on OKCupid was:

      women: 11/48/76/428+(full), 536+(full)

      men: 0/1/2/12/38.

      I think this puts to rest any debate.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

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      • Shadowcat Says:

        I’m interested in your stats, but it is unclear what they mean, can you clarify the numbers?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

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        • Steve Says:

          there were 10 profiles; 5 women and 5 men.

          The numbers are the numbers of emails received. (I assume this means initial, or unprompted emails) ranked from lowest to highest for each gender. The men with highest numbers of emails 12 and 38) was similar to the women with lowest number of emails (11 and 48). The women that received 428 and 536 mails had full boxes and would have received more. The photos appeared to be a typical sample of people, nobody unusually attractive or unattractive.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

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  4. Steve from the city next door Says:

    Depends on how you define luck/success. For finding a long term partner, from what I can tell it is about equal. For getting a date – women have it extremely easy. For getting a date you want, it still appears from what I can see to be significantly easier for women though much closer in difficulty.

    My results vary alot. I would guess my results overall would be a response of 1 in 10 of contacts, about about 1 in 10 of those would lead to date….so around 1 in 100…ok probably not quite that bad, I would estimate 1 in 50 overall.

    My buddy who is 6’5″ got lots of emails when he signed up…he dated a girl out of that group for a long time and never went back so I don’t know how it would go over time. The rest of us in my group of friends got very few emails.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

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    • Nicole Says:

      “Depends on how you define luck/success.”

      Exactly. I don’t think it makes any sense to define success at online dating by sheer number of messages received. Yes, men do most of the initiating online, but that’s true offline as well. The cultural norm that men usually make the first move is problematic in a lot of ways… But it isn’t confined to online dating.

      I was on OKC twice, for a total of about 7 months. I would guess I went on one first date for every 100 messages I received. And of all those dates, only two turned into something long term, which is how I (and a lot of other women) would define success online.

      I don’t fault guys for playing the numbers game and sending out tons of messages, but it does screw things up in a way. Women get so many messages that we end up going through them quickly and looking for any reason to screen a guy out and move through the inbox. I actually rarely even opened messages, I just opened profiles and scanned them. Only if someone’s profile really appealed did I actually go back and read the message.

      So the women who are online for attention or an ego boost – or just looking to date casually – yes, they have it easy. Those of us who we’re looking for something more serious probably struggle just as much as men.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 3

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  5. Lalalatte Says:

    “ETA AUGUST 2014: Can we please discuss the idiots who close their profile by saying that they don’t plan on sending out many if any messages, and so if you want to talk with them you’re going to have to email them? I’m genuinely curious what is behind this logic. Is it reverse psychology? Negging? Just your garden variety entitlement and douchebaggery? What?”

    As a women I passed on profiles with disclaimers from men stating they only respond to a select few messages or that had any similar disclaimers (No fatties, must be extremely active, etc…). Online dating takes effort and those disclaimers make the person using them appear like they don’t want to do the same homework as everyone else online — Male or Female. It reeks of entitlement. Is it really that hard to just delete messages from people whom you’re not attracted to? I wonder how many women who match these guys preferences don’t bother to contact them because their disclaimers make them seem like a douche? With so many guys stating they don’t get any emails it shouldn’t be a big deal to delete messages from undesirable women.

    I live in the Northwest where practically every other guy has a beard of some sort. Instead of putting a disclaimer on my profile about my preference for clean shaven guys I just weeded out the beards who emailed me with a quick response. Usually I just said I had started seeing someone and wanted to see where it goes…or other harmless lie… *if* I responded at all. Funny thing is one of those bearded guys who emailed me hit all the other marks and after meeting him in person I could actually see he was far more than just his choice in facial hair – 16 months later he, his beard, and me are still together. A disclaimer on my profile would have thwarted that initial contact from him.

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    • Nicole Says:

      “As a women I passed on profiles with disclaimers from men stating they only respond to a select few messages or that had any similar disclaimers ”

      Me too. But I always liked the irony of getting what was obviously a cut-and-paste mass message from one of the “I don’t send out many emails” dudes :)

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  6. Speed Says:

    I don’t imagine many truly attractive people (ex: 9s-10s) use online dating, since they have so many options offline. Barring a few exceptions perhaps, only a 9-10 with some sort of severe character flaw, scam or general craziness would go online to find a partner.

    I imagine the 7s-8s have the very best luck online. Attractive enough to draw lots of messages, but not so model-hot that people suspect them of being crazy or scammers. They can date within their own league, or once in a while slum it with the lower league if they get bored or want some attention, sex, meals, etc. Their longer-term goal is either to date exclusively within their own league or, if possible, shoot for a 9-10 (online or off). 7s-8s can also feel frustrated if they are determined to date/marry a 9-10, because it’s unlikely it’ll happen. Although 9s-10s may slum it with them once and a while.

    The 1s-6s (my league, and probably the vast majority of people online), imagine themselves in the 7s-8s or even 9s-10s league, though they are not. They get frustrated by shooting way too far out their league and getting few or no responses (or scammed for free meals, sex or even money) and ignoring messages or visits by people within their own league.

    The problem is then not the “endless options” or “shopping cart mentality” or online dating systems. Those are just algorithms. The problem is the delusions of the online daters.

    Satisfaction in online dating comes from knowing your league and trying to date within it. You can raise your league (ex: drop weight, gain money), but it takes enormous effort and discipline. The leagues aren’t rigid, unbreakable laws of physics (yeah, we all know the story of some ordinary person who married way out of their league) but they generally hold.

    This is sort of Moxie 101, and maybe you have to really live it to understand it (as I did). Otherwise, you can shout (as I’m sure many people here will), that “there are no leagues!” and “anybody can date anybody!” Delusion is comforting.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      Absolutely true. Anybody that feels online dating is not working for them is delusional to some extent because it always comes down to them not wanting the people who want them. Period. And, to complain about it out loud is essentially admitting that you’re delusional, which is even more stunning to me. I think even a below average dater does just fine online as long as he or she knows it.

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  7. Craig Says:

    According to Moxie’s numbers she got 85 emails in the first three weeks and then they started to trickle down to 3 a week afterwards. I never got anywhere near 85 emails TOTAL the entire 6 or 7 years I used online dating. Can I get a show of hand from guys who ever got that many emails from women their entire time online?

    The simple fact is most women sit back and wait for men to contact them on those sites. They are not doing the majority of the initiating of contact, just as they don’t do it in the real world. So if you measure success by the number of emails you get, women have men beat by a large margin. However, if you measure success by who finds the most quality relationships, well I guess that pretty much has to be a tie. After all, a coupling requires a 1 to 1 ratio if you really think about it.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 0

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    • Donnie K Says:

      Can I get a show of hand from guys who ever got that many emails from women their entire time online?

      I’m going to go out on a limb and say the total show of hands will remain at….zero

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

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      • bbdawg Says:

        I agree it’s pretty even. Most women would not go out with the guys who send out the “hi how are you” messages. Or the ones who are 20 years older and living in the suburbs and looking for a fun girlfriend in Manhattan. Like Nicole said, if your goal is something more serious then you have to be patient because men who are into commitment are just as picky as you are. Still it’s true than when it comes to work on online dating, men have to do most, if not all of the work.

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  8. Donnie K Says:

    What we have here is a solid argument – women don’t have it any easier than men do online. The problem is it contains several faulty points:

    “Please enlighten me as to how this myth that women get more messages started. Because that was not my experience. Maybe the women who are inordinately beautiful or the ones in their twenties get barraged with emails. But I certainly didn’t.”

    Most men don’t get ANY emails. When I signed up fro match.com and Okcupid last year, I got many “winks” on match and virtually no emails on Okcupid. In the twelve months since, I’d say I received somewhere between 30-50 emails>M nay of which were time waster BS emails that said “Hi.” –

    “When I was actively using OK Cupid for dating purposes, I’d post a profile and get about 50 emails in the first 3-5 days. That would drop off to 25 by week two. 10 or so by week 3. And then once I hit the one month mark I’d get maybe 3 emails a week for a couple weeks, even when I’d update my profile.”

    Those 50 emails you saw in the first week are more than most men see in one year. In order to get dates men must email women – this point isn’t even open for debate. Sure, I’ve gone out with women who emailed me, but those have been few and far between.

    “I find this constant complaint that women get sooo many more emails than men overwrought and baseless. You don’t know that. Or you’re basing that on the women that you meet, which are probably the women being contacted by everybody and using those sites for attention and free meals. In which case, you probably have really bad taste in women.”

    Using the numbers you provided, the average woman gets 250 emails a year. It would take the average man 10-15 years to reach that total.
    Again, I agree that women have it just has tough as men do online – for different reasons. If I had to sift through messages from time wasters and the socially maladjusted, I’d get discouraged at times at well. But to suggest that women to do get way more emails than men, all I can say is

    ….really??????

    BTW: I’m also 43, stay in shape and have been averaging 1-2 dates per week since I started dating online last year…

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  9. Lisa Says:

    “ETA AUGUST 2014: Can we please discuss the idiots who close their profile by saying that they don’t plan on sending out many if any messages, and so if you want to talk with them you’re going to have to email them? I’m genuinely curious what is behind this logic. Is it reverse psychology? Negging? Just your garden variety entitlement and douchebaggery? What?”

    I haven’t seen this exactly; but sounds like a power play.

    What I have seen a lot of is:

    1) totally blank profile with the canned invitaton to “ask me more about this” or whatever.

    No, thanks.

    2) Guys who message you and announce in the second msg that their membership is about to expire and if you want to keep in touch, their number is xxx-xxxx.

    How about if you’re interested in keeping in touch, renew your membership? That’s another option.

    3) an announcement in the profile that says he will not pay for anything on the first date; it should be Dutch treat…and convoluted explanation as to why.

    Tacky.

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  10. Shadowcat Says:

    In my limited experience online, emailing men is a bad idea. Send a wink, (or whatever the equivalent is on your particular dating site) and move on. You can neg me all you want, but it comes off as desperate. If you make explicitly it clear to a man that you are are interested and attracted to him, and he feels the same way, he will take it from there… Online as well as off.

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    • Steve Says:

      I don’t agree with this, guys will welcome an email. I don’t care if I get an email or a wink or a nudge or whatever you want to call it, if I like the profile I’m responding. Women on the other hand don’t like to receive winks as much as a brief email in my experience. Winks seem to get lost in the masses and too impersonal.

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  11. C Says:

    On the ETA: just sounds like frustration to me. It sounds like (one of my friends) who sent out something like 150-200 messages during a 6 month period and got 1 reply from one lukewarm flake and that was all! After 6 months of paying to be rejected, some guys opt to take the passive approach. Unfortunately, the men who openly post that fact send a message that betrays their hostility and frustration.

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  12. PrairieDog Says:

    Let’s see, three messages per week is over 150 per year, and if 10% result in dates, that’s about 15 dates with someone new in a years time.

    Pardon me if I can’t work up much sympathy for you. Fifteen initial messages is more than I’ve gotten in six years of online dating, and 15 dates per year is more than I’ve ever gotten doing all the initiating.

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    • Kyra Says:

      That sounds like either online dating isn’t the right medium for you, or you really have to step up your game. 6 years with fewer than 15 dates per year is a slightly sad statistic. :(

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      • PrairieDog Says:

        How many first dates do you expect to have in a year’s time? What do you think is an ‘average’number?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

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  13. Knightdrew Says:

    Most women who are above average looking do not go online dating and most men who are millionaires or very handsome and famous do not go online dating. Those types of people get luck with love offline already.

    Only ugly and average looking women go online dating for true love, women who are above average looking and would message you first are usually just fake romance scammer profiles. Real women who are above average looking would usually just ignore you. No matter how handsome or nice you are. Most REAL women who are average or pretty usually go for men who are either assholes or millionaires.

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