Why Did He Suddenly Flip Out & Dump Her?

AP has filled in some of the blanks from her original letter (click here to read the first part of the story):flippingout

Here’s the short version. Since we were spending many nights together and lived 10 lbks away, we decided to rent out my apartment for a few nights weekly. It was my idea but he thought it was brilliant. We thought we’d use the money toward our dating fund. He told everyone about it, including his family, how smart I was. We did 2 stays, and it seemed to go reasonably well. We went out and spent $900 on 3 weeks on our dates. [MOXIE’S NOTE: this was before she rented out her apartment.] We decided we’d do it for another 4 weeks (so there was a finite time), and when the 3rd stay came, he thought I’d booked too many nights & 4 more weekends was a lot. So I unbooked them. He said thanks and everything seemed fine. And then he came home in a drunk rage, and told me to get out. In the reach-out I did later, he just said he didn’t know how to tell me that he didn’t want me there so much but wanted to continue dating. So his emotions brewed and came out badly when he was drunk. I said if it was just that, he could have told me and I’d have cancelled as I did anyway. I have a nice apartment and wouldn’t have minded staying separately had he just told me. That was the disagreement. It still seems extreme to go from I love You to Get Out in a span of 24 hours.

 

Okay. Now that you’ve filled in some of the blanks, I’m going to write a completely different answer to your  original question.

I’m not sure what this “date fund” is about, but I do know that spending upwards of a thousand dollars in just three weeks is pretty exorbitant. It wouldn’t be too high if you two were equally splitting the costs after, say, the second date. But it’s extremely high if he’s the one footing the bill the whole time. So there’s the first point of contention that probably had this guy irked. We spoke of a similar situation a few weeks ago when we re-capped that Dater X post over on the Frisky, where the guy Dater X was dating had to ask her to start chipping in and pay her share. I’ll reiterate what has been said in previous posts and comments: no guy eagerly throws cash out the window on dates because he enjoys it. Guys don’t like paying for things, despite what many women on the interwebz say. They do it because they know women expect it and because they don’t want to be that asshole who has to speak up and say, “Um..could you pay for those drinks you drank, you leech?”

The second bone this guy probably had was that your answer to the money issue wasn’t to just go on less expensive dates but to sublet your apartment so that you could have a “date fund.” That sounds like a really considerate and thoughtful thing to do, but let’s be honest: there was a hidden agenda there. If you subletted your apartment, well then where would you go? Oh. Right. You’d stay with him. How convenient. Then, when three or four months pass you can suggest that you two live together because you’ve basically been doing it already. It would be hard for him to disagree with that logic, wouldn’t it?

As I said to you last week, he likely felt like you were trying to force his hand into moving in together by choosing to sublet your apartment for extra cash. To let strangers into your home and sleep in your bed and possibly trash your apartment in exchange for a “date fund” seems a little odd. Don’t you work? If you do, then how is $1000 split between the two of you over 3 weeks all that much? I find it very hard to believe you don’t have that kind of disposable income. I also have a hard time swallowing that you’d rather let people sleep in your bed than just, I don’t know, order a pizza and watch Netflix. That’s far less invasive and intensive. Regardless of what you make,  there were other options to cut back on your spending or make your dates less expensive that didn’t involve letting other people temporarily move into your apartment.

So here’s what I think: I think this guy felt grossly taken advantage of and  a little manipulated and let everything build up until he exploded. Making it worse was that you don’t seem to have an iota of a clue as to why he might feel trounced upon.  If there is anything that will make me go from 0 to 90 faster, it’s when someone treats me poorly and then is all, “But I don’t understand!!!” Either they are willfully obtuse or they legitimately have no idea why someone feels so used because they  do not have a capacity for empathy. All they can think about is themselves. It’s all about them and their ego and their feelings and their confusion. They never stop to go, “Tell me what I did that made you so angry so I can either tell you you have it wrong or so I can fix it.” They’ll even throw out empty apologies even though they don’t even know what they’re apologizing for, they just want you to like them again so they can continue to believe they’re who they think they are. Even their apologies are about them. They don’t care that they hurt someone or treated them poorly. All they care about is a) finding a way to blame it all on the other person so they don’t have to do any personal inventory or b) converting that person back into a fan…so they don’t have to do any personal inventory.

The piece of the puzzle that you’re missing here is that you think his 180 degree turn was sudden, when in actuality it was probably building all along and you ignored the little signs.In the one instance where I can remember blowing up at someone to the point where I felt a seething dislike for them, it wasn’t because of one isolated incident. It was a result of a series of incidents over the course of time. That’s what I think is going on here. This guy had been brewing all along,  little by little, until he exploded.

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49 Responses to “Why Did He Suddenly Flip Out & Dump Her?”

  1. DMN the Wise Says:

    Ah, yes, the ever popular “well he never complained, so he must have liked it” logic that so many women use to justify the most incomprehensibly rude behavior when dating. I’ve made the point before about this, how women think that basic common courtesy goes out the window when dealing with men romantically (Not that AP’s rudeness is so spectacularly unusual. In fact, it’s pretty common). She’s just imposing on the guy without giving much thought to what he may be privately thinking…. but not saying. I suppose that is a lack of empathy.

    Totally agree with Moxie that the seemingly sudden change in a guys behavior is never sudden. It’s always building. True, it doesn’t always end in an explosive outburst. But, I’d bet a lot of the so-called “fades” we hear about are really just guys getting fed up with feeling like they’re being taken advantage of.

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  2. bbdawg Says:

    By the way: “to rent out my apartment for a few nights weekly” is illegal. AirBnB-type renting has been ruled as illegal in New York for a while now. Renting for less than 30 days is illegal. Period.

    I live in a Co-Op in a nice neighborhood in NYC and this is a major issue. People trying to get their apts rented to make some money when it’s illegal in our co-op too (on top of it being illegal in the city).

    To me, that shows a kind of aggressive/manipulative personality with boundary issues. At 41, that’s scary. As in, this woman wanted to rent out her place illegally and finds the excuse by randomly finding a man whose apt she can stay in while she does that. If it were me, I’d feel used. This is blatantly illegal so if there is any kind of lawsuit as a result of that, her quasi-boyfriend might have to show up and talk. How awful to have to put someone in that position.

    “Dating fund” what the hell is that supposed to mean? That’s not worth the hassle. She is involving her BF in a legal matter and he is potentially liable to respond to this should anything happen as a result of the OP’s actions.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      There are legal ways to sublet your apartment.

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      • bbdawg Says:

        It sounds like she was doing it AirBnB-style (several scattered stays for only a few days). Anywayyyyy even if it were legal, it’s still a burden to the person on whose home you are staying while the apt is being rented.

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  3. mindstar Says:

    “But, I’d bet a lot of the so-called “fades” we hear about are really just guys getting fed up with feeling like they’re being taken advantage of.”

    Absolutely dead on target.

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  4. mindstar Says:

    “but let’s be honest: there was a hidden agenda there. If you subletted your apartment, well then where would you go? Oh. Right. You’d stay with him. How convenient. Then, when three or four months pass you can suggest that you two live together because you’ve basically been doing it already.”

    This tallies with some comments made on the original post that as a 40+ woman the OP was perhaps desperate to settle down.

    The truth just shows her to be coldy calculating.

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  5. Nicole Says:

    I have read some bizarre things on this blog but I think this might be the winner. It sounds like a sitcom plot – zany couple decides to move in together after just two months so they can turn one of their apartments into a hotel! Except even in a bad TV show there would be a semi-logical reason for the arrangement, like one of them accidentally losing their rent money on the subway or something.

    “I also have a hard time swallowing that you’d rather let people sleep in your bed than just, I don’t know, order a pizza and watch Netflix.”

    Yeah, this just about sums it up. Most people settle into relationships after a couple of months and stop going out every time they see each other. Sure, you might do a nice romantic dinner out once every week or two, but that’s probably replacing a night out with the boys/girls; it’s not an added expense. I have never heard of anyone needing a special “dating fund” after they are in a relationship. I think the guy probably figured that either AP is so high maintenance that she can’t survive without expensive nights out (and has no other way to contribute to financing them) OR she is using this as an excuse to fast forward moving in with him. Neither scenario is good.

    And amen to the idea that 180 degree turns are not as sudden as they seem. When you’re super excited about a new relationship (or crazy scheme to raise beer money) it’s easy to overlook the subtle cues that someone is getting frustrated with you.

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    • DMN the Wise Says:

      “I think the guy probably figured that either AP is so high maintenance that she can’t survive without expensive nights out (and has no other way to contribute to financing them) OR she is using this as an excuse to fast forward moving in with him.”

      Trying to imagine if I were the guy in this bizarre situation, and I think it’s more the former than the latter. Moxie’s analysis puts a lot of emphasis on her trying to coerce him into a permanent “move in” situation but I don’t think that’s it. That may have been her intention but, if it were me, I wouldn’t really care about a threat of a permanent move-in from some girl because, at that point, I could just say “uh, no, you’re not moving in.”. This just seems to me like a creeping imposition – more difficult to manage, like she was pushing, pushing, pushing, and he was just not complaining so as not to rock the boat during the initial stages of dating. He was the proverbial frog not knowing he was cooking in boiling water. With her focus on the money spent dating, the actual, conscious raising of dating capital (and remember her similarly robotic initial letter, counting dates, wondering which red flag, in hindsight, would have been a sufficient justification to bail.) As I suggested in my initial comment on her last post, that’s really not “love.”

      And, the amount they spent on dates, even by New York standards, it’s pretty up there. If it were me, even if I were comfortably rich, and she were happily contributing her share, I’d still be really concerned about her priorities, her expectations, and how I could sustain this.

      All that said, I just think he was never as into her as he was leading her to believe. He certainly did not actually “love” her. Most people know that’s pretty much not possible after just a few months when you’re literally still getting to know each other. To me, the biggest red flag of all which she didn’t even catch. While she was busy bean counting and dutifully preparing for the next relationship “stage,” he just privately wanted to dial it back. So, the “explosion” – including some pretty hurtful comments, was probably deliberately intended to make it easier for things to end permanently rather than engage in continued discussions.

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      • Nicole Says:

        Only you would find a way to bring an (apocryphal?) boiled frog into this debate, DMN…

        You make a really good point – “he just privately wanted to dial it back”. I think that could be the whole answer right there… She was moving the relationship along at warp speed, and he was just kind of going along with it, despite having some misgivings about the pace or even the relationship itself. And when she didn’t slow down (either because she was oblivious or because he wasn’t communicating well) he blew up.

        The weird rent-out-the-apartment scheme (and the dating fund, and the herpes, and the cheating) could just be masking the simple ‘girl pushes too hard for commitment, guy runs away’ story we see all the time. Occam’s razor and all that ;)

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      • Chianti-Z Says:

        The thing is, with women like this, he’s going to have to literally tell her it’s over. His outburst changes nothing. In her head, this can still work. Lol

        I love reading this site. Just when you think you’ve seen it all, someone sends in a story like this. Lol.

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  6. Tinker Says:

    The response to spending $900 in 3 weeks should be ‘let’s go out less/do some cheaper stuff’ not ‘let’s rent my apartment out’. I agree with Moxie, that’s not really thoughtful. You still aren’t spending any of your personal money. It shows a willingness to do just about ANYTHING before reaching into your own wallet- if I were a guy I wouldn’t be in love with that attitude.

    On the other hand, I think you are well rid of him, because he needs to learn to use his words. Who keeps saying yes to stuff they don’t want to do until they say no in the most explosive way they can? Not someone I’d want to be around. Both men and women should be well versed in saying ‘no’ by the time they reach 40.

    OP, in the future I’d show more respect for someone else’s money and space, and show an actual willingness to reach in my wallet. Yes, he ultimately should’ve spoken up sooner, and it’s his own fault that he didn’t, but you were also just doing way too much. And this is further evidenced by the fact that, once he calmed down, he didn’t apologize for his part in everything. He didn’t try to work it out and get back together. He ultimately decided you weren’t worth the trouble. He was relieved. And the way you imposed on him had everything to do with that.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      **It shows a willingness to do just about ANYTHING before reaching into your own wallet- if I were a guy I wouldn’t be in love with that attitude.**

      But…what was the point of the “dating fund”/income from renters if not to contribute to dates? She said, “We spent $900 in 3 weeks,” not “he did.” It doesn’t make any sense to say, “Since you’re showering me with all this money as we paint the town red, I guess I need some extra income of my own. Just because.”

      She clearly made some bad choices and they had poor communication. $900 in 3 weeks is redonkulous even if it was split exactly 50/50. It sounds like her biggest mistake was kind of telling and not asking him about things that would be great for them as a couple and he put up with it for a while ’til he snapped.

      Yes, she handled money poorly. She pushed him away by escalating the pace of the relationship in a way that made him uncomfortable without really stopping to check in with him along the way (like, have an actual conversation about it, not just ask a yes or no question).

      But I’m not seeing how she’s this freeloading mooch who expected him to pay for everything.

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        OR she did mooch off him initially, all that $900 was his. He felt resentful and brought it up, and her solution was to contribute to a “dating fund” rather than just, like, do Netflix and pizza every once in a while, as Moxie said.

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        • Tinker Says:

          This was my take on it

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          • fuzzilla Says:

            Pretty weird scenario, so I found it a bit confusing.

            Sheesh, I feel pressured just reading about the “dating fund”/weird shacking up arrangement, and I don’t know the OP and am not a guy. I guess I can kind of relate to the guy in the scenario, having had partners who are all, “Hey, so I thought of ABCD thing that would be great for us, all you have to do is jot your initials down here.”

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  7. AC Says:

    1) This was not out of the blue. No one goes on a drunken tirade unless tension’s been building for some time.
    2) While this is an extreme example, I’d say between 1/4 to 1/3 of the time when men fade, it’s money related. As DMN wisely points out, if we feel we’re being fleeced, the obvious question is: “Is this worth it?” The answer:

    No

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  8. Damien Says:

    $900 spent over three weeks sounds aggravating. When I was in my twenties, I met my share of women who thought nothing of me spending hundreds on a date. Most often, these were under-employed women who, seeing the income differential between us, presumed that I was more than willing to pay. The dating expenses resulted from their needy impositions playing off my sympathy for their naivete.

    They were clearly unaware of how they were coming across. Meanwhile, my annoyance was building. It took a few of these experiences for me to learn to avoid this behavior and these types of women.

    As I got older, I encountered less of these scenarios, except in the instance of some extremely attractive women, who still assume that men should pick up their tab for the privilege of dating them. Yes, I was a sucker for the sex that came along with it, but after about a month or two, this behavior still becomes unbearable, and the outcome is still the same.

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  9. Yvonne Says:

    Somehow I don’t think that she did not contribute at all to any of the dates. And if she didn’t, no one forced her boyfriend to shell out that kind of money. Actually, I don’t think the main problem was money.

    I still see this as the OP pushing herself on her boyfriend, as Moxie said. Way, way, way too much togetherness too soon. The “date fund” is utterly crazy and very manipulative, not to mention that it comes across as strangely desperate.

    They spent way too much time together for a new relationship, and obviously, way too much money. He flat out told her, during their blowout, that he didn’t know how to tell her before that he didn’t want her there so much. So he basically got drunk, and told her he was sick of her. OP, stop letting neediness and desperation get the better of you. Don’t be so willing to (literally) give up your own life the moment you meet a man.

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  10. Shadowcat Says:

    I don’t get it. Why didn’t he just say no the first time? Did he have too much ego to admit he was uncomfortable with the amount of money they were spending on dates? If he kept going along with it, I don’t feel sorry for him. And he shouldn’t have let her book out her apartment then kick her out, the word NO is simple.i don’t have sympathy for people who pull nasty blow ups when they could have used they’re words early on and saved the relationship/friendship, I’m sorry.

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  11. D. Says:

    Ok, so a few observations.

    1. From the sound of it, she unilaterally decided to do this “I’ll rent my place, stay with you, and we can use the money for our dating fund.” That’s…probably not good. At the very least, she sounds like the driving force behind it. And Moxie’s right about the whole “And then I can just move in with you!” angle being presumptuous and problematic as well. What you’re dealing with is cohabitation, not just “Hey, can I crash at your place tonight, since we’re in your neighborhood?” It just sounds kinda pushy.

    2. $900 in three weeks is a lot of money. I don’t care who’s footing the bill or how much is being spent. That is a boatload of cash in three weeks for dating. That it was spent prior to the rentals bringing in the cash to replace it is also telling. Maybe you can expect to get the money back gradually, but someone still has to float that bill for the time being.

    3. Why would your brain go to “I know! I’ll rent my place, stay at yours, and we can put the money towards dating!! Yay!!” Something doesn’t add up there. Like, why would there be a need for that kind of cash in the first place? Why would that be the discussion at all? Why is anyone talking about renting their place? To me, that sounds like there is some kind of monetary strain affecting the couple, and this is the clever fast-cash solution.

    4. My guess is that this guy was feeling pressure on multiple fronts. Money pressures, the pressure of someone moving in too soon, and the pressures of his girlfriend pushing the relationship faster than he was comfortable. As discrete incidents, they’re probably the kind of thing that he might be able to ignore short-term, but they build up over time, leading to the blow-up. Could he have expressed himself sooner? Sure. On the other hand, they’ve only been seeing each other a few months, which means you’re in that place where people (A) don’t want to rock the boat, and (B) eventually decide “Fuck it. I shouldn’t have to ‘fix’ anything at this point. I’m done.”

    5. I have to say, it really sounds like AP is…hmm…self absorbed. Or at least she was in this moment. I wonder if maybe the problematic pattern in her dating is at least partially due to not being able to see things from the guy’s perspective, or assuming his attitudes match hers. E.g. “Well, I don’t understand. That wouldn’t bother me, so what’s the big deal?” The big deal is it bothers him. If you aren’t taking any time to figure out why it bothers him, that’s a problem. Maybe not the problem, but a problem nonetheless.

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    • Nicole Says:

      ‘On the other hand, they’ve only been seeing each other a few months, which means you’re in that place where people (A) don’t want to rock the boat, and (B) eventually decide “Fuck it. I shouldn’t have to ‘fix’ anything at this point. I’m done.”’

      Yes. Everyone is quick to jump on the guy for not using his words and speaking up if he didn’t like her idea – but that’s a lot easier in a settled LTR than it is after 2 months. Most people are still evaluating someone at that point – they aren’t yet committed to working things through and making the relationship a priority. I’m not condoning the guy blowing up at AP – he acted like a jerk – but I’m not surprised he just wanted out and didn’t want to try again. If things get shaky 2 months in, most people will just bail.

      Which is why it’s kinda crazy to try this sort of quasi moving in together scheme so early. You just don’t have the solid foundation to work from in salvaging the relationship if things don’t go smoothly.

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      • D. Says:

        Exactly. Anywhere from 1 month to 3 months or so, you’re at a point where if you hit a serious bump in the road, it’s very likely to kill the relationship outright. It just isn’t enough time — for a lot of people — to have built up such an attachment that you’ll struggle through the difficulties.

        People often say “Relationships take work.” They also say “relationships should be easy.” Both are true, but both are true in different ways at different times. Early on, it shouldn’t be work to be in a relationship. It should just be easy and smooth. It’s after you’ve been together that it requires effort to keep things from getting stale, or to work through problems that arise, etc.

        But early on? 2-3 months in, or less? You shouldn’t be having big blowups, because a fight like that can just flat-out kill a relationship in its nascent stages.

        And as for moving in…yeah, 3 months is FAST. It’s one thing to leave a change of clothes and some toiletries at that point, if you’re spending several nights there a week. It’s quite another to be like “And I’ll just be stuck here for days at a time while I pull in money for our dating fund!”

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        • BostonRobin Says:

          Right. That early, when things start going off the rails, the only word you need is “incompatible.” I might “use my words” once or twice if otherwise things are going well, but if it starts to look like someone expects me to ride the crazy train, I’m out.

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  12. Debbie Says:

    Just – wow … AP is creative — what a way to push the ‘move in’ timing – and how financially creative! Just – not ….

    The guy (from AP’s side of the story, remember!) should have called a halt sooner to this hare brained mess. In a gentle, civilized way? Just as gently and civilized as she treated him? Guessing that there were other tactics going on and it can be very hard to stop a moving train – or a steam roller!

    Remember also, this guy has a few ‘deal breaker’ bags to carry. His STD ? Yeah, that drops 3/4 of his dating options. TMI on his cheating history? Yeah, that drops him down to the most motivated (to find ‘a relationship’… ANY relationship?) of his age pool. AP also knew that & pushed the ‘grateful’ to the limit. She got the nuclear fallout? Too bad …

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  13. AP Says:

    It’s AP and the OP here….

    Here are some gaps from the story:

    This guy also overshared his financial status. Despite making a good 6 figure salary and living in a $4000 rental in the city, he told me he had no savings at age 42. In fact, he had recently incurred some debt with his recent move. That was the premise for the concept of the dating fund. And yes, I was surprised by his financial revelation. He had no student loans, an amicable divorce, no properties, no expensive possessions…when questioned, it just seemed that he had lived a lifestyle of spending at his exact income level all these years. I, on the other hand, make a little less than him, live a more modest lifestyle with savings, and own my place in the city. Renting my place out is not a foreign concept to me. I do it when I go on vacations. I use a cleaning service, only rent to tenants with referrals and it’s not such a biggie to have people in my home. When I suggested the idea to him, he thought it was awesome & said he was onboard, and handed me his keys. He even told his friends and family about it, so he seemed comfortable to me.

    The $900 was from the dating fund (Moxie’s note is incorrect). Yes, it seems like a lot. But I was getting $200+/night for my place, so we splurged a little here and there, but still stashing a good bit away for the future. We still did hang out on the couch. We also did our own thing after work and staying at his place did not mean we spent all that time together.

    Was I looking to move in? No. We had decided on a finite time limit of doing this for weekends over 4 weeks only. I didn’t want to be hauling my stuff 10 blocks in the cold weather & told him so. Plus I own my own place, and he knew I had no intention of giving that up.

    Yes, I agree the relationship moved at a fast pace. He said “I love you” first. He told me he was serious about me, wanted me to meet his parents, liked having me around, the reason he had got more space was to have someone else there etc. etc. So I don’t think it was just me over-pushing any boundaries.

    The day that he said he had a problem with the renting out concept, I called and cancelled all the reservations. I understood why it bothered him, and by this time, I too wanted the freedom to go home when I wanted to & realized it was becoming too much. He said “thank you”, his texts were all normal that day till he came home…and then I got the nuclear fallout AFTER the problem had been solved.

    I’m with Shadowcat. He could have just said no at any point. Or he could have sat down with me and explained how he felt over coffee. We could have dialed back our dating plans and gone back to doing 50/50 split, where he’d now have to pay money out of his pocket. No need to throw someone out in the middle of the night in a drunken rage….again, it’s very uncharacteristic behavior for him. He always showed himself to be a kind person prior. That’s why I was focusing on the explosive behavior & red flags than the actual details of our disagreement.

    Hindsight is 20/20. In retrospect, it wasn’t a good idea. I tried to fix it, but clearly the damage was already done.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Despite making a good 6 figure salary and living in a $4000 rental in the city, he told me he had no savings at age 42.

      Yes, probably because he’s divorced. Legal fees alone could strip someone of at least 10K. Plus another 10-12K to move into a place that is 4,000 a month. Bye bye, savings.

      I didn’t want to be hauling my stuff 10 blocks in the cold weather & told him so.

      Are you serious? You’re griping about having to carry a bag 10 whole blocks? Take a god damn cab if it’s so taxing. Come on.

      AP, this is the second story you’ve told me where you’ve literally been thrown out of someone’s apartment. That rarely happens to anybody once, let alone twice. Did it occur to you that he was revealing his finances with you for a reason? Like, I don’t know, maybe because he felt you had expensive tastes? This is what I meant by missing red flags that where there all along. The guy is telling you, “Hey, I don’t have a ton of money saved up.” Why do you think he was telling you that? To brag? Of course not!

      There are only 2 reasons why someone expends this much effort into defending themselves. Either they care very deeply about the opinions of their audience or they are powerfully obsessed with their own image and how people perceive them. You aren’t even conceding to the possibility that you did anything wrong. It’s all him. That’s disturbing to me.

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      • AP Says:

        No, I’ll take some of the blame. The idea was bad in hindsight. I was trying to be helpful without thinking of the consequences. I did make a mistake. And nope, I wasn’t just defending myself. I was just giving pieces of the story that were missing from the post.

        Yea, I should have understood why he was telling me he didn’t have money saved up. It just seemed like he had even more expensive tastes – living AT his means. I didn’t pick the places we went to. He did.

        I also only wanted to do it for just 4 weekends for a few reasons, mostly because it’s also inconvenient. I like staying at my own place and have access to all my clothes etc. My point is this wasn’t a long term plan at all .. to sneakily move in.

        But yes, I am reading the comments here and understanding better on how I may be coming off. This has been very helpful.

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        • ATWYSingle Says:

          I’m curious, what do you think your mistake was?

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          • AP Says:

            Definitely the dating fund and the idea of renting out my place to stay at his ….

            We should have instead openly talked and figured out a plan on how to go out and split the tab in a way he was comfortable with…

            I should not have jumped into the relationship so quickly either and gave it time to develop more naturally…

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

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            • Tinker Says:

              Looking back now with a different lense, do you think he showed any signs of annoyance with the living or money situation ( before the blow up)?

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              • AP Says:

                Very honestly, even with a different lens, I can say no…..he seemed thrilled by everything & would tell me how much he missed me when I was gone.

                That’s why I was pretty confused and didn’t relate the blowup to either of those facts initially.

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    • Tinker Says:

      It sounds like you just want him to be crazy and have flipped out for no reason. You aren’t looking at all of the very real signs that you were missing something, focusing only on the positives instead. Thinking that he just flipped out and went off may leave you with a measure of comfort, but it doesn’t really help you moving forward.

      I’m the biggest proponent of using your words, so I’m not inclined to give him much of a break there, new relationship or not, but the fact remains that you’ve got to get better at hearing what is *not* said, just as much as what is.
      I wish you the best!

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      **That was the premise for the concept of the dating fund. And yes, I was surprised by his financial revelation.**

      Whose idea was the dating fund? Can you see how people think you were charging ahead with your own agenda?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

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    • Snowflake Says:

      “Would you recommend backing off at either of these stages? Or hanging in there because you believe in showing empathy and not judging someone for their past? I’m curious….”

      I find it extremely telling how you ended your first and initial write in AP. You clearly have attempted (and are still attempting) to paint this guy in such a bad light, that you have done NOTHING wrong.

      1. You left out extremely important facts of your situation.
      2. You have not taken ANY ownership on your part in this.
      3. Your concern when you wrote in was not why am I getting thrown out in the middle of the night (again who is to believe what exactly happened seeing how you conveniently leave out the facts.. your concern was about his admission to an STD and his confession to cheating on his ex-wife.

      You are blatantly refusing to listen to any of us. So be it.

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      • Greg Figueroa Says:

        Truthfully, who cares if the STD or cheating was a red flag when he got rid of her for finances and hidden agenda reasons. Why bring that up if he did the breaking up ultimately? It’s like she doesn’t even consider her own red flags.

        If a guy wants space, you have an argument and cancel reservations, why still be in his house when he comes home? I get the feeling the OP is tone deaf in her dealings with men.

        Quite frankly, after a few weekends, maybe the OP become annoying to deal with. It sounds like she doesn’t pick up on things that could be annoying to a partner.

        The OP renting out her apartment was for her own benefit. At $200 a night over 3 days for 3 weekends (1500-1800 for 3 weeks). So she gets to pocket some money, semi move-in for free. And she schedules another 4 straight weekends to add to the dating fund and some pocket money. So where was the dating fund prior to the airbnb dating fund?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

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        • Greg Figueroa Says:

          Then she tries to make believe she was getting tired too, but she’s the one with the renting her place out idea and she schedules more time to make money because she was getting so tired of being at his place. Sure.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

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    • Fyodor Says:

      I’ll try to put this more gently.

      1. Regardless of whether you forced him to do it, renting out your apartment so that you are committed to staying in his is an intrusion at this stage of the relationship.

      2.Regardless of whether he went along with it, setting up a joint spending fund is an intrusion at this stage of the relationship. It also signals very strongly that you expect a lot of money to be spent on dates. So much so that you have set up an income stream for that purpose.

      3. By moving into his apartment part time you did not leave any room for him to quietly dial back the relationship when he felt crowded. He can’t tell you that he doesn’t want to see you that night. Because you’re sleeping in his bed. Yeah, he shouldn’t have lost his temper, but by seeking out this arrangement you robbed him of a lot of his subtler options for expressing how trapped he feels.

      4. I agree that the “oversharing” the financial status was an attempt to drive home to you that he didn’t have tons of money to spend on you. In the future if a guy tells you that he does not have a lot of money, he wants to stop spending so much on dates.

      5. I can’t emphasize this enough-people don’t want their relationships early on to have to be a wrestling match. If a guy is constantly encountering behavior and expectations that he can’t stand from someone he’s been dating for two months, he isn’t going to seek out couples counselling. He’s going to get the hell out.

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      • AP Says:

        Got it! Thanks for putting it gently and I totally see what you’re saying. I gave you the first thumbs up for the post :-)

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        • DMN the Wise Says:

          I would also add that, at your age and apparent experience level, you should know that a few months of dating is not a sufficient foundation upon which to base a genuinely loving relationship. No matter how much you may want that, if someone is expressing deep feelings at that stage, they are, by definition, insubstantial and without a real basis. So ignore those words. Better yet, avoid those guys.

          As I suggested in my first comment above, while your story is kind of nuts, I don’t think your apparent lack of situational awareness is unusual at all. Virtually all of the women I date appear to me to have the same cluelessness to one degree or another. And, at least from reading your commentary, you seem to be among the more astute (albeit a bit icy, yes?). So it’s somewhat surprising. If nothing else, your stories are wildly entertaining.

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      • bbdawg Says:

        I find it difficult to read that the OP sort of money-shames her quasi-BF for ” not having savings” and sort of wrangles that into a narrative of how she was “helping” him by staying at his apartment for free and creating a “dating fund”?.

        That sounds disturbing and emasculating to me. The OP pushed her very clear agenda and physical presence onto the BF without truly considering what the BF’s role or interest in all of this might be. It’s not like she has spent a cent on this dating issue. The BF is paying the price, 100%. The BF’s boundaries were clearly “violated”. I would think after something like this, anyone the OP meets will leave. I’d find it extremely odd if the BF had stayed. So many red flags.

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    • Nicole Says:

      After reading the follow-up to the follow-up…

      It sounds like both of you were so eager to be in a relationship that you ignored stuff that bothered you and signs you maybe weren’t compatible. It happens a lot… Just usually ends a little more quietly!

      Your original letter mentioned wondering why he’d told you about cheating on his wife – and now you mention thinking it was strange he had a high income and no savings. (And yes I’m deliberately ignoring the herpes thing because it’s really a non-issue.) But at both points you just kept moving forward, instead of really taking the time to decide if this was stuff you were ok with.

      And it sounds like he did a similar thing – just tried to be fine with you staying over all the time because you needed/wanted expensive activities. I’m betting his initial “great idea!” reaction was automatic and he started to have second thoughts once things became real. But as you’ve said, he didn’t tell you. Possibly because he’s a poor communicator – but more likely because he wanted the relationship to continue and figured he could tough it out for a few more weekends.

      The lesson here is really that no matter how much you hang out and how many times you say ‘I love you’, it takes more than a couple of months to decide if you’re compatible. Don’t spend the first 2-3 months anxiously anticipating relationship milestones… Use them to figure out if this is a person you want to be with long-term.

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  14. Fyodor Says:

    I’m a little confused also about how the first letter and second letter relate to each other. When did the cheating revelation come? It now sounds like it might have been an attempt to get her to back off?

    Also, did they break up? It wasn’t clear from the first article.

    I used to regret that I never spent any of my single years in New York, but this site has changed my mind. Everyone there sounds crazy.

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    • Greg Figueroa Says:

      Yeah, I’m getting the feeling he was trying to back her off prior to the break-up and then said fuck it when he found out that she was trying to stay over another 4 weekends straight.

      Did the dating fund pay for all the dates in that three week period or was he still throwing money in to dates. Was it like $450 coming from him, $450 coming from her end (the dating fund isn’t a joint thing, it’s her money)

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

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  15. D. Says:

    AP,

    Based on these latest revelations, I’m noticing an underlying theme in your posts that maybe you aren’t aware of.

    First, you’ve revealed much of this information in a piecemeal fashion. Second, your clarifications have mostly been along the lines of “I realize this looks bad on me, but…” with the “but” being the telling aspect. Lastly, while it seems like you’re starting to “get” where you might’ve gone wrong, you’re still focusing on the abruptness of this guy’s behavior.

    To me, all of this suggests that you’re kind of caught up in your own narrative. This isn’t uncommon in dating, but it can be self-defeating. We often cast ourselves as the “protagonist” of our own story, and when that story isn’t going well, it’s because we’re the victims of circumstance. Or, to the extent we’re responsible, we make damn sure to explain that, “No, no, see, the other person also did XYZ…” The unspoken part of that sentence is “So, I’m still the hero.”

    This is, like I said, very very common. The problem with it, though, is threefold. First, it tends to either absolve you of all responsibility for your circumstances, or at least mitigate the responsibility by placing it on other people.

    Second, locking yourself into your own narrative can rob you of whatever ability you might otherwise have to view things from someone else’s perspective. Fyodor makes some excellent points above, but it’s not enough to just read them and say “Huh. Yeah, interesting.” You have to be able to internalize them and, if you’re too busy focusing on your own narrative, you’ll forget that everyone else on the planet is living their own narrative as well. That makes it hard to consider their view, what they may want, and how you’re coming across to them.

    Lastly, by divesting yourself of responsibility, you end up inadvertently making yourself helpless. The other person was a wacko, the other person overreacted, the other person could’ve/should’ve done XYZ instead. Even if I did ABC, they still should have yadda yadda yadda. You get the picture. Through all of that, you’re a hapless victim of circumstance, rather than someone who can actually change things for themselves.

    You said you’re in therapy now for some of this, which is a good thing. That can be an intense process that again sticks you square in the middle of your own narrative. But maybe talk about how to get outside yourself so that you don’t find yourself in a situation like this again.

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  16. Debbie Says:

    Yup, I can see that now? Got it! Seems like maybe not so much … That horse has fled the barn however, so moving on ….

    Just one comment more — the schlepping her stuff 10 blocks in cold weather? And her with a very nice aparment? Schlepping works in both directions … Oh wait … perhaps that is much of the problem here?

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  17. Kyra Says:

    The idea that she needs to sublet her apartment to have a dating fund just screams financial mismanagement to me. Who thinks “What a brilliant idea, I can sublet and then I’ll have all this money to go out to fancy places with the guy I like!”, seriously, if I was a guy I’d run in the opposite direction from her.

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  18. GetAGrip Says:

    You. Are. Simply. A. Woman-Hater! Your answers are somehow slightly slanted towards more sympathy/empathy for the man. This is why your advice is so dangerous. Your answers contain such venom towards women. You’re a female who wants a dick.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      If you read my initial response to this woman’s letter (where she conveniently left out very salient points) you’d know that I originally sided with her 100%.

      I realize that in certain parts of the internet, like xoJaneland, bitter and broken women gather to vilify men and take everything they read at face value because confirmation bias rules. We don’t do that here. Sorry to break it to you this way, but sometimes women suck just as much as men.

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