Why Don’t Women Want Relationships Anymore?

Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): Seriouslyfrustratedonlinedating
:
Comment: Why don’t many women want a relationship anymore?
Age: 40
City: Brooklyn
State: N.Y.

 

I’m not sure that I agree that many women don’t want relationships anymore. I think the more appropriate question is why many women don’t think they need a relationship anymore.

Let’s back up a bit, though. If you’re basing this assumption on the reasons women have given you for not wanting to date you, understand that they’re probably telling you a white lie. “I’m not looking for a relationship right now” is a go to excuse many men and women use to let someone down gently. Therefore, you shouldn’t automatically take these words as gospel. This line is a fib, kind of like, “It’s not you, it’s me.” Nope. It’s probably you.  Something about the combination of you and them doesn’t work. I happen to think many of us base our perceptions on dating and sex and men and women on these lies, which is why so many people have such distorted and warped beliefs about relationships and the opposite sex.

Now let’s address my opening statement. As I tried to convey in the comments of an earlier post last week, not all women place settling down or getting married as a priority. That may have been the case twenty or even ten years ago, but it’s not now. Think about it. What are widely considered to be the main reasons why women marry? Here are three big ones: stability, financial security, family. People will say that the main reason people marry is for love. I’ll disagree. You can have love without marriage. That union isn’t what provided the love. The love was already there. All that union provided was, say it with me, security. Getting married made people feel safer and it made walking away more difficult. Now that divorce is so common, marriage no longer offers the feeling of safety that it once did. Ergo, fewer people are anxious to get married.

If marriage is no longer the goal for many women, then you can see why they don’t feel compelled to jump at any opportunity for  a relationship that is presented to them. The days of women feeling pressured to marry and have children are slowly dwindling away. If marriage and children are not a priority, and financial security isn’t a necessity, and the fear of dying alone and having cats eat your face no longer scares women, then guess what?  You have fewer ladies racing to settle down. It’s not that we don’t need men or relationships or love. We still want them. We just don’t need them as much.

Before I go any further, I’m going to nip the inevitable cries and accusations that I’m cynical and bitter and have given up on ever finding twoo wuv in the bud. Marriage, to me, is an extremely big deal. Divorce, for me, isn’t an option. There were a lot of things I could do to fuck up my life that my Dad would have gotten over, but divorce wasn’t one of them. Dead or alive, I can’t disappoint him. Not again. The examples that were set for me of marriage were  nothing but positive. I believe in marriage. You have no idea how much. But the bar was set very high for me by my father. I hate what my step-mother did, and I feel she betrayed him on so many levels by disinheriting my sisters and I and giving all his money to her sons, but I do not doubt for one minute that she adored my father. There is absolutely no way she couldn’t have after all he did for her. I also believe that my father returned that adoration. In fact, I think he loved her so much that he would forgive her for what she did. That’s a profound kind of love. He loved her (and my Mother, as my step-mother and mother both had similar personalities) because they were feisty and opinionated and passionate and outspoken and difficult, not in spite of those things, and he certainly wasn’t passive or “easy going.” My sisters all married men who loved them because of their assertive personalities, and all of them have/had zero problem butting heads with or challenging them. They don’t feel threatened or turned off by their “masculine energy.” So don’t tell me that men like that don’t exist, because they do.

meangirls10

Now, if I meet someone for whom I feel that strongly about, I’ll marry them in a heart beat. Anything less than that won’t do for me. And that’s okay. At least it is to me. If that means I never marry and live alone for the rest of my life and never experience what other people experience, I’m alright with that. I do not fear the idea of dying alone or having to go through losses or hardships on my own because I’ve done it and I made it through to the other side. I might be a little banged up, but the important parts are in tact and probably even stronger than they were. I’ve built a stable life for myself, I enjoy my own company, I have people and relationships in my life that give me support and love and sex and all the good stuff. If they were to all go away, I’d still be okay. I’m not the only woman who thinks this way, either.  I’ll say it, and people will probably flame me for it, but the idea of being in my late thirties or older and worrying about getting married sounds exhausting to me. Been there, done that, it wasn’t fun. After a certain point, it’s time to become more realistic. The more time that goes by without meeting The One, the quicker people need to start accepting the real possibility it won’t happen and formulate a Plan B. That doesn’t mean give up or quit. It means let go and just…live your damn life.

All of this is to say, Seriously, that holding the belief that all women are eager for a relationship and commitment might be where you’re going wrong.  Offering us financial security or stability isn’t enough anymore.

Now it’s about what you guys bring to the table. How will you make our lives better? Rather than wonder why women aren’t jumping at every opportunity to have a boyfriend, maybe turn your focus on to yourself and determine if there’s anything you can do to make yourself worth the effort.

 

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82 Responses to “Why Don’t Women Want Relationships Anymore?”

  1. LostSailor Says:

    I agree with Moxie. It’s not that women, especially in NYC, don’t want relationships, but that they don’t need them. So they’re holding out for the best relationship and are constantly told Don’t Settle!! So they don’t. And, yes, many of them will end up alone. But unlike Moxie, who is very aware of her reasons for her choice and the consequences and is okay with them, many women won’t be.

    Moxie correctly notes that with financial stability and support that relationships and marriage bring off the table, it’s more about what men bring to the table. And, OP, if a relationship is what you want, then you need to bring more to the table.

    Of course, that is a two-way street, one that many women don’t acknowledge. It’s also about what they bring to the table, and sometimes that’s not much.

    In the comment thread Moxie reference in her response, I was called out as only wanting “casual” relationships because I think that compatibility and decent sex are important to relationships and told that “real” relationships are (to women) are about partnership, companionship, protection, and support. Compatibility and sex are apparently not necessary. Well, yes, they are necessary, otherwise it’s a one-way street only about what a man brings to the table.

    And that’s not for me. I’ve been in long-term relationships and a long marriage. I’m happy to offer a partnership, companionship, protection, and support, but I want something in return, and for me that’s compatibility of intellect and interests as well as a satisfying sex life. And if I can’t find a woman who has that to offer, I’m quite content in my single life.

    The OP’s letter is short on details, so I have no idea what his situation or experience has been. But he apparently wants a relationship. I agree with Moxie but would put it in a different perspective: why would the OP want a relationship with women who may be constantly looking for something better…?

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    • Nancy Says:

      Men are always shopping to, always comparing what they have to see if they can get better. It is a consumer world so while it offends men that women are now equal shoppers, there is a reason for this approach. Never stop shopping if you know the person you are with is constantly shopping. So did men create the shopper mentality or did women? Chicken or the egg. If you want something better, when you find what you want, do you stop shopping and let the person you are with relax into that security or do you keep the environment tightly wound up with shopping? As a woman, my ex was constantly shopping for much younger women and comparing me to them hence he was constantly mildly discontented … which was not a fun relationship … sucked to high heaven. So if you are shopping and doing that to your relationship, women eventually start doing the same, no sense in investing when you know you mate is out shopping. :) It just is the world we live in … checking the menu out changes our heart and our happiness … many are fooled and think it does nothing, they are enamored with the saying you can look just not touch … looking changes the heart, it is a destructive habit to relationships and all men believe they can’t help themselves so … there is no security in relationships only misery when you go out and your man is to busy browsing the menu.

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  2. J Says:

    I love this post! People think I’m crazy when I say I don’t have children because I don’t want to. Then I have to follow up with I’m single and don’t believe I having children out of wedlock. In addition to that, I don’t see myself getting married anytime soon. I grew up with an amazing father and I won’t settle for a man I respect any less than him. Men today cry so much about gold diggers and women wanting their money but my father and men in his generation took real pride in providing for their families. I just can’t understand men today who would rather play video games than improve their lives or are so afraid of being taken for a ride that they never shift out of park. I’m not bashing men, just describing what I’ve encountered. I tire of hearing people lament how dumbfounded they are that I can’t find a decent guy with all the good (read: traditional) qualities I have. I’ve accepted the reality that the type of men who are comparable with me and what I’m looking for (more old fashioned) are few and far between as time goes on. I hold out hope that I will find someone who doesn’t keep throwing around “but I thought you all wanted equality…blah blah blah” lol. I love the look on their faces when I say I hate feminism. I secretly want to be a 50s housewife… With a job lol.

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    • J Says:

      *compatible

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    • Steve from the city next door Says:

      Why do you assume that this would be an improvement for the guys BY THEIR Standards?

      If you are 50s house wife then by definition you don’t have a job… well maybe coordinating the church bake sale. This sounds alot like the “I want equality unless the inequality favors me.”

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      • J Says:

        Because I legitimately enjoy many things attributed to the female role. Like cleaning and having dinner on the table when my man gets home. But I’ve had a job since I was 13 and I’m 100% sure it would take me 2 days to pull my fingernails out from the boredom. Plus, I enjoy making money. I’m not sure how that sounds like a negative from a guys perspective. But if you prefer to be the one working all day AND making dinner AND cleaning, I’m sure you will have no trouble finding a woman who will sit back and let you have at it.

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        • Mandy Says:

          You don’t seem to understand the concept of feminism at all. Feminism means you want equal opportunities to men. So, your choice to have a job, or to cook and clean? Or do both? That’s because of feminism. It’s not anti-feminist to want to cook and clean and take care of a house and family. It’s anti-feminist to believe that women shouldn’t have a choice of whether to do that, or to work, or to do both.

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          • J Says:

            Lol that’s kind of my point. When I say I “hate feminism” it’s in response to the warped definition I get from guys. It’s like when guys say they don’t hold doors because of feminism. Or they don’t pick up the check because of feminism. I’m usually thinking “what are you even talking about” yet I usually just respond with “I’m not a fan of feminism” because it’s easier than explaining to someone who thinks they know everything that they are wrong. I am basically saying I disagree with his definition of feminism but why open a can of worms debating what it really means? I’d just like to enjoy my meal rather than going all Lincoln Douglas.

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            • J Says:

              I have a lot of friends who legitimately want to be stay at home moms. They said it’s their dream job. These are women with advanced degrees and great jobs. For me, being a housewife is a nastolgic fantasy. I’m not sure why we are so stuck on that. I have a great finance career ahead of me. The main point of my comment was in agreeance with moxie that having a great father shapes a girls view of men. My one sister didn’t think my dad was all that and that my mom should’ve had her own money. She’s married to a man who quits his job whenever he wants and leaves her to pay for everything and is constantly asking her for money. Her perception of things is different therefore she took a different path.

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    • LostSailor Says:

      Men today cry so much about gold diggers and women wanting their money but my father and men in his generation took real pride in providing for their families. I just can’t understand men today who would rather play video games than improve their lives or are so afraid of being taken for a ride that they never shift out of park.

      Men “cry so much” about gold diggers and women wanting their money, because that has been the experience of quite a lot of men. It’s not a bout “providing” for a family as the last generation did, because times have changed. Again, it’s about what each person in a relationship brings to the table, and men who want to provide for a family often don’t see much being brought to the other side of the table.

      Younger men who prefer video games and hanging with friends rather than “improve their lives” (by getting married?) for fear of “being taken for a ride” are making a logical and rational choice after seeing so many other men being taken for a ride, as well as taken for their children, house, car, income, retirement, and dignity.

      I often say that I’m definitely all for equal rights, but I’m not for feminism because feminism has twisted itself into a parody of an equal rights movement. Just check out the curricula of any Women’s and Gender Studies department.

      J, there are men out there who are still more traditional, and who aren’t afraid of commitment. They’re probably not down with modern feminism, either. Keep looking!

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      • J Says:

        When I said improving their lives I meant through education and working at a career as opposed to lacking ambition and working at starbucks their whole lives. Complaining about min wage being too low but won’t work for a higher salary.

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        • LostSailor Says:

          Well, if they’re happy working at Starbucks, I’m not going to judge them. But that’s a stereotype and you’re not going to date those slackers anyway.

          But there are a lot of men who have education and ambition and do quite well, yet they are content to play video games, hang out with friends, and if they date, just have fun without commitment, not wanting to get married. And that’s just as valid a choice, even if it doesn’t fit what you think they should be doing.

          And there are a lot of guys with education and ambition who do want commitment, like the OP, and/or marriage who find only women who are constantly looking for “something better.”

          Kinda works both ways. And it sucks. But that’s the world we live in…

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          • J Says:

            I totally agree. People should definitely live their lives however it makes them happy. I’m just saying from ‘my’ perspective that *i* can’t understand it lol I was always raised to do my best and try harder. I guess it’s a personality trait to be constantly trying to do better on your own life. However, I’ve never felt the need to upgrade on men. I’ve always been happy with whomever I was with until something really happened.

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      • Nancy Says:

        Men were treating women like worthless cows is why the woman’s right movement swung into gear. How many wanted to have sex and then walk away? You know it was just sex. Not like a woman’s or a child’s life was going to change for forever. So … men created a need by their “boys will be boys” attitude. I had a man tell me it took him 45 years to become a man. LOL Yet he was screwing around making babies at 19. So … how does society deal with men children that can change lives for forever? The answer … women went to work and became the providers. Men need to own up to their crap behavior.

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        • Theo Says:

          You realize that women allowed (and dare I say “encouraged”) this crap behaviour.There was a time when having sex before marriage or at least a stable, long term relationship was frowned upon for precisely this reason. That safeguard was eventually removed largely because feminism thought it was put in place to “oppress women” (even though as a result men couldnt have sex without commitment either so really we were “oppressing ourselves” if you want to follow that logic) Once that safeguard was down the players suddenly had access to all these women and so a new mating strategy was born wherein you can get short term rewards (sex) without paying the ultimate price (lifelong commitment). Now men were faced with a problem… play by the old rules (i.e. build yourself to be a protector and provider by going to college and working hard in the hopes that it’ll help you find a good woman for a lifelong commitment) or focus your time and energy on playing a womans fantasies, desires, and emotions in such a way that provides you with short term rewards. And in this day and age for every man who adopts the latter strategy there is a woman who falls for the short term offer and one by one, the men who play by the rules begin to realize that to play by the rules is to be a sucker because the honey is so much sweeter on the other side. So those who have the looks and confidence (arrogance) to play a girl that way abandon the traditional route and become the players… again because women encourage it by choosing it. Eventually the heatbroken women who got used try to find the last remaining good men (who arent as attractive because again, the short term strategy only works well if you can play a girls fantasies) and then they complain “where are all the good men?” Meanwhile the good men are shaking their heads trying to find a good woman who had enough foresight, confidence and judgment to avoid getting duped by the players because they often have too much pride to get picked after the player.

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  3. Matt Says:

    “I happen to think many of us base our perceptions on dating and sex and men and women on these lies, which is why so many people have such distorted and warped beliefs about relationships and the opposite sex.”

    Well, then, maybe we should all make a concentrated effort to be more honest when it comes to dating.

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    • Sherry Says:

      The last guy with whom I was totally honest went apeshit crazy on me. I lost interest on the third date and this infuriated him.

      BTW, this was 10 years ago. Ever since that instance, I use extreme diplomacy and would never fully disclose my real reasons for rejecting someone. As long as people display an inability to handle the blunt truth, I’ll continue to candy-coat the truth.

      I’ll likely be down-voted for this, but believe me, you really don’t want to know the truth about why someone doesn’t want to see you again. In the beginning stages of dating the reasons tend to be superficial, anyway.

      1. Bad breath / hygiene
      2. Person is already asking for money
      3. A dislike of the person’s body type
      4. Personality is extremely off-putting
      5. Person wears out-of-style clothes
      6. Lack of sexual chemistry / bad in bed
      7. Lack of intellectual compatibility
      8. Person is acting clingy, desperate or needy
      9. Person seems mentally unstable or volatile
      10. You simply aren’t attracted to him/her

      The qualities that I dislike in a man might be seen as very desirable to some other woman out there, so I feel I have no right to rain on anyone’s parade. You say you want more honesty in dating, but can you handle it?

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      • Michael Says:

        Man lie to impress and women lie to make others feel good. but most men see through the BS. Maybe your BS drove your man crazy. Most men when rejected try and improve themselves, Don’t believe me. Google PUA, How to attract women, etc.
        Some men and some women are crazy, but that’s life and basing every man on your experience with one is even crazier in my book.

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      • Matt Says:

        Well, how on Earth can someone improve if they’re not being told the truth? As much as we like to believe the beautiful snowflake thing, the fact is people fall into types, and people are invariably attracted to certain types. What turns off one person of a “type” is bound to turn off many of the same type, so unless honesty is at play, they’re doomed to an endless cycle of rejection.

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        • Greg Figueroa Says:

          No one owes you the truth and to be frank (one or two dates) nobody cares enough to share the truth. If I’m not into you why would spend more time trying to explain my subjective opinion. The majority of people who claim to want the truth never leave it at that. They want to argue with you, tell you to explain yourself, or harp on how wrong you are. It isn’t worth the energy, so “I don’t feel the connection” will do just fine. It’s like when a company wants you to do a survey about your customer experience, you don’t care.

          Pay a coach for honesty

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          • Matt Says:

            No one is owed the truth, true, but it’s a nice thing to do. And as far as the “well, I don’t want to hurt feelings”? When someone gets rejected, feelings are going to be hurt anyway. No sense in sugar-coating anything now.

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            • J Says:

              The point was the people can’t handle the truth. People are crazy. I told someone we weren’t a good match and when I declined to elaborate he started making up a bunch of reasons I didn’t like him including calling me racist. The truth doesn’t really matter because even when you tell them, they swear it’s something else.

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              • Matt Says:

                SOME people can’t handle the truth. But honesty is always the best policy. I know this blog tends to veer towards the “Lying is awesome, and you should do it as often as possible” view, but I disagree.

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            • D. Says:

              Yeah, but there’s also no need to add to the hurt already by saying something the other person probably doesn’t want to hear and may well disregard anyway.

              It’s not lying when you say “I’m just not feeling it,” if you don’t also follow that up with “…because [your breath stinks/you have a lousy sense of humor/I think you’re batshit crazy/you suck in bed.]” It’s being tactful. And when someone pushes for a reason beyond “I’m not feeling it,” they are the ones being rude by blatantly ignoring social convention to satisfy their own desires. It’s like saying “No. I demand an answer, even if you are extremely uncomfortable giving it.”

              Regardless, it usually doesn’t matter anyway what their reason is. If it’s something you can fix, it’s probably something you can figure out on your own. And the obverse of that is, if you can’t figure it out without someone spelling it out to you, you probably can’t fix it even if they do.

              And all of that assumes that it’s something more global, rather than the often-highly-subjective reasons people call it off. I mean, hell, I’ve recognize that there’s nothing objectively wrong with someone I’ve gone out with a couple of times, but I’m just not…all that interested in them. Sometimes there isn’t even really a reason that I can put my finger on. Other times, there is, but it’s something that I recognize is my own preference, and not something wrong with the other person. So, does it matter then? Should the other person pay attention to my esoteric complaint?

              Generally, I’d say “Shit, no!” They should ignore it and just figure “Ok, we aren’t a match. Moving on…” No big deal.

              Ultimately, I think if you’re craving feedback and suggestions from other folks…your self esteem either isn’t very high, or has taken a real beating recently. Getting “protips” from the random people that you date probably isn’t going to help that any. Have faith in yourself, and if things aren’t going your way, reevaluate your own role in it, or ask your very blunt friends. Or hell, ask Moxie. She ain’t gonna pull any punches with you and you might learn something in the process.

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      • bbdawg Says:

        Not to bring up Evan Katz’ site again, but there is one post where he says, men’s reasons for not liking a woman are 99% of the time:

        “I am not attracted to her/she is not “hot” and/or “she is not pleasant to be around ”

        Women’s reasons are at least 20 (insert yours)
        -doesn’t make enough money
        -didn’t go to the right school
        -wears weird shoes
        -his voice is too loud at times
        -should have a better job by now
        -I don’t like how he combs his hair
        -made a weird comment about ____
        -lives in a neighborhood I don’t like
        -badly dressed
        -too short
        -not ambitious enough
        etc…

        Women are PICKY. Nowadays most women make at least (on a median level) the same as men, and I feel most women don’t want to step down. So there is a lot of competition for the top end of men. I would say that female interest in the marriage market only applies to men that are their (financial and/or social) equal and above.

        Online we get messages from all kinds of men, including men who only have a high school degree where we have master degrees from Ivy league schools. In that case women would rather be single, yes. Because the point of marriage to most women is either family and children (in which case most women seek emotionally and financially stable and ambitious men) OR general companionship/stability.

        Very few women “marry down” socially. If you’re going to have to step down, you’re better off single. I am only interested in men in a similar educational/cultural bracket of my own. I can’t be with someone who doesn’t actively read or have similar cultural references in conversation, which can happen a lot with online dating (you meet people from different worlds).

        There is a recent study that suggests that the higher educated marry later and stay longer married and that social “climbing” if you will is increasingly rare since most women are now just as well educated as men are and that the high status groups self-select.

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        • mindstar Says:

          And with more and more women attending college abd fewer men doing so there will be fewer and fewer marriages and more competition for the Alpha males favored by many women.

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          • Eliza Says:

            I must agree with mindstar…it’s true. Accomplished women with a lot to offer these days–have it all and can do it all. The only valid, motivating reason to WANT, not need a man in their lives–is to enhance their “time”–by having a true friendship, strong passionate desire and bond, that can only be formed based out of “things/feelings” – i.e., the unintangible. Women today, work full-time, some work full-time AND go to school, and manage well enough. What Moxie said is 100% true–marriage today holds very little value in terms of providing “security”–and for some of us–if you are financially stable, and worked hard to attain a home on your own, and a nice nest egg–DEPENDING on whom you let into your life…you may have more to lose-by entering into marriage. And this applies equally to men that have a lot to offer–that are afraid of losing it all–or about 50% of it to someone looking to live off of them. Today–women have the same fears. What is left? Making oneself worth the time/effort from the opposite sex by bringing the very qualities that appeal to those they seek.

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          • Eliza Says:

            Oh forgot to mention, in my reply–the NEED to want a relationship (especially marriage) – may dwindle–with accomplished women already late in terms of child bearing years. Why you ask? Because, that biological ability to have a “child” raise a family is no longer there. Sure–adoption is an option. But, that is basically one of the few reasons – by women in their late 20’s – 30’s may be adamant about finding that right partner–with husband potential. Personally, I feel a sense of liberation – being in my 40’s–that I no longer place so much emphasis in finding the “One”–in response to my biological clock needs. Frankly–the pressure is off. I am self-sufficient, financial stable…the only reason left for being in a relationship would be to find someone I connect with amotionally and as a true friend…someone to share the “wealth”, for lack of a better word. When I say “wealth–I mean: laughs, good times, travel, common interests, etc.

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        • Nicole Says:

          “If you’re going to have to step down, you’re better off single.”

          Well, it depends on how you define “step down”. There’s a difference between wanting a partner who’s an equal and rejecting guys based on where they went to school or what neighborhood they live in. I have an Ivy masters degree and my boyfriend has a bachelors from a local college, but he is every bit as intelligent as I am – and makes about ten times what I do. (He also wears loafers with no socks everywhere and the vast majority of his hair combing is done with his fingers … those things just don’t really matter in the long run.)

          It also depends on how much you want to be in a relationship. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with deciding you’re happier single than you would be dating someone who doesn’t meet all of your criteria. Women today can have financial stability, a full social life, even children if they want them – all without a partner.

          But it seems like a lot of the women with their hundred pages of must-haves and deal-breakers are the same ones complaining when they can’t find a decent guy. Like you said, there’s a ton of competition for those educated, good-looking, high earning types. And all they want in a partner is a woman who’s attractive and fun to be around, while women judge a guy on everything from his income to his socks.

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        • The D-man Says:

          Oh yeah, women are definitely picky. Here’s a classic example. This gal wrote a blog post explaining how simple women are, then listed 25(!) things men need to do to impress all those simple women. My list is more like 3-4.

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  4. Steve from the city next door Says:

    I suspect it has something to do with OP’s age. It says he is 40 so I am guessing the women he is dealing with around the same age. By 40 the women who are really interested in getting married (or a really serious relationship) already have and now are either still married or burned or just been there & done it. Those that are on the market still are for a reason.

    Another thing I see…and I think I am seeing here too… women only go for it if it is perfect…whatever that means for them.

    Of the single women in my age group, only 2 seem interested in a relationship. One it seems like she wants help raising her kid. The other one…the youngest at 30 is a bit out there…e.g. a tattoo of a vampire mouth on her adams apple. Well plenty of guys are interested based on her statements, but none are good enough. The others seem happy to have a few dates paid for and then onto the next.

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  5. Michael Says:

    I can always tell when I woman writes something because they base their experience on their limited emotional perspective. Men an the other hand usually based their experiences on both facts and emotions.
    Men and Women have been bonding in a stable relationships for thousands of years So you would rather be alone with your cats then have a man hold you, make you feel needed. Yes your suppose to treat your man like a king but it’s his job to treat you like a queen. The welfare state changing marriage as we know it’
    1.Under 40 there are 100 single women to 115 single men.
    So 40 what were doing the last 20 years and you cry about your problems yet every 15 men out of a hundred have no choose.
    2.I am amazed how you can look at a man and say in 30 seconds, nope not him. I guess Auto-Reject is part of b*tch biology. if your not interested be honest most men will try and improve themselves. How many women take PUA? none they have no need for self improvement to get dates.. other then laying off the snacks
    3. Years of watching USA Romantic comedies has given you unrealistic expectations, Hint: the man you want doesn’t exist, were human too.
    4.Welfare and Affirmative action are the reasons many women can survive without a man, have a career and die a spinster. Or date alphas for 20 years and when their looks fade find a beta sucker to marry. Unlike most career women men still want to marry but in a country where they can loose half, I can understand why some refuse.
    Being a women in the USA you have plenty of options, for example If I want to stay home and raise the kids no woman would date me and it’s a shame your too fussy to see that.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 33

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    • Sherry Says:

      “I am amazed how you can look at a man and say in 30 seconds, nope not him. I guess Auto-Reject is part of b*tch biology.”

      Multiple men who have posted on this site over the years have mentioned that they know within the first few minutes of meeting a woman whether they feel attraction to her or not. Many men ‘auto-reject’ and so do a significant number of women. Since men are visually oriented, many either ‘auto reject’ or decide to pursue based on the woman’s looks.

      It’s time for a reality check, Michael: there are some women in society that you would never bone, and you know it. Women are allowed to feel the same about men with whom they know they’d never want to share a bed. Get over it.

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      • LostSailor Says:

        There have been studies that have shown that both men and women make an initial attraction assessment within a very short time after meeting someone of the opposite sex, ranging from seconds to a minute or so. It’s definitely not just the ladies.

        And if Michael is going to take rejection so much to heart, perhaps he’s not cut out for modern dating…

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      • Eliza Says:

        That’s right–some women are also very visual. It takes the length of consuming a small coffee – to determine whether this person is at the very least Physically attractive…and then they open their mouths–and conversation either seals or breaks the deal. Anyone that has an issue with this notion should NOT bother dating period.

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    • Matt Says:

      … Michael, dude, stop getting all your dating knowledge from articles on FOX News’ website.

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    • dina Says:

      “Being a women in the USA you have plenty of options…”

      Yes, I can see how that would be true if you are a woman with low standards. If you have low standards it would be very easy for anyone to meet them. Women with low standards usually chase men they think they deserve (men more confident women would NEVER look at). These women, through experience, have lowered their standards and make themselves readily available to these “less then” men. If you are being rejected by women it’s probably because you are aiming to high and out of your league. Whether it be your looks, appearance, personality, level of education, conversational skills, intellect, etc., whatever the reason, these women feel you do not meet their standards. Everyone has different standards and expectations.

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    • Greg Figueroa Says:

      Speaking about facts. You see how men with the feels can distort the facts from an emotional place. Then people don’t see how their attitudes don’t bleed into their everyday interactions.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

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  6. Sherry Says:

    [I] “I am amazed how you can look at a man and say in 30 seconds, nope not him. I guess Auto-Reject is part of b*tch biology.” [/I]

    Multiple men who have posted on this site over the years have mentioned that they know within the first few minutes of meeting a woman whether they feel attraction to her or not. Many men ‘auto-reject’ and so do a significant number of women. Since men are visually oriented, many ‘auto reject’ or decide to pursue based on looks.

    It’s time for a reality check, Michael: there are some women in society that you would never bone, and you know it. Women are allowed to feel the same about men with whom they know they’d never want to share a bed. Get over it.

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  7. Damien Says:

    Certainly, as singles remain single into their 30s and 40s, their feeling of not needing anyone increases. That’s why the likelihood of staying single also increases.

    What does a single woman or man want at this point need, other than a good lay, or drinks and dinner paid for, or social entertainment on a slow night? Then it’s back to our more fulfilling single lives.

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  8. Tinker Says:

    Marriage is as big a deal as you want to make it. Just like sex. Just like fill-in-the-blank. When you get two unique people in a relationship, you are going to get a unique marriage- it’s not going to be exactly like anything you’ve seen before. Just because it is not exactly what you may have seen growing up or always pictured doesn’t mean it can’t be just as good or, likely, better.

    I don’t believe in getting hitched just for the sake of it. But I also don’t believe in writing off any relationship that doesn’t resemble one I may have had in my head as the be all and end all. Because, more than likely, the fantasy relationship I have going in my head has plenty of holes in it when it’s dragged out into the light.

    In my experience when women (or people in general) don’t want relationships, they don’t want the type of relationship that they feel like they *have* to have, or they don’t feel like it’s even attainable for them. But luckily it’s a new day- everyone is free to forge the type of relationship that suits them best.

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  9. Gratis Ptaka Says:

    I have zero desire to be married, have kids or be in a committed relationship. I’m not going to bend over backwards to please anyone, be they male or female. I have everything I want in life: A home, great career, tons in savings and great education. Why would I risk all of that in a world where half get divorced and those that remain would likely divorce given the right opportunity? Offer most married people 5 million to divorce their spouse, with the stipulation they can never see their spouse again, and watch the number of divorces soar. Money is the #1 driver of marriage.

    Even if I met the perfect women, I would not get married. You can’t predict who someone will become in five, ten, twenty or more years. Grey divorce is a booming industry these days. Marriage is going extinct for very, very good reasons.

    I think it’s great that women are eschewing marriage and relationships. How many tens upon tens of millions of people have to be destroyed via marriage and divorce before people wake up?

    Marriage for breadwinning men is an enormous risk. You’re betting your future financial, physical, legal, psychological, and spiritual health on a flip of a coin. Men pay 95% of alimony and child support. Women file the majority of divorces. Women get custody of “her kids” 90% of the time. Divorce for breadwinning men means you are no longer worthy of love but your paycheck is always welcome (through force of law – lest ye go to prison).

    I think the goal for everyone should be to remain as independent as possible for as long as possible. We really need to get rid of the idea that marriage is some kind of fairytale panacea. It doesn’t work that way. How many times have you heard that marriage is hard work? That marriage is hard work is a huge understatement.

    People need to be educated on the massive life damage marriage and divorce can lead to and how common that life destruction really is. It is far better to understand this reality and remain single than to engage in an institution that has destroyed many, many tens of millions of lives in the past 40+ years.

    Marriage rates have been declining for decades, in both good and bad economic times. All developed nations are experiencing the same decline. Why? Marriage is not compatible with current social norms and values. It was built for a time that is long past.

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    • Speed Says:

      I can’t imagine that you do not know a single happily-married couple among all your family, friends or coworkers. Even so, if you just don’t like marriage, then don’t marry. However, saying “marriage is dead, singlehood is glorious” ignores both demographic reality and just plain logic. It’s a crude rehash of the zone where Red Pill culture and militant feminism strangely overlap.

      It’s true that marriage rates have declined in the West but still, most people in the USA marry at least once. Marriage rates are highest in the USA for those with college degrees. In Europe, marriage rates are far lower but the institution of marriage carries on. There are also many “informal families” in Europe, where the man and woman may have children together but not marry. In effect, they are common-law husband and wife. Many gay people also want to get married and/or live as formally or informally married couples, even adopting children. This indicates that marriage and family formation continues to have a broad appeal. I’m not even going to mention the non-West, where marriage and family formation is nearly universal.

      In the West, no one is forced to marry. Therefore, if there is a “damage” in a marriage, such damage is caused by the husband and wife, not the institution.

      In any event, there cannot be a perfect marriage, any more than there can be a perfect state of singlehood. Both states have upsides and downsides. Any mature person would know this. A person can exist well in either state, and can optimize their happiness if they can remain self-aware.

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  10. Ben Iyyar Says:

    I believe very strongly that almost everyone, men and women, deeply desires a close, intimate, supportive, and loving relationship with a significant other person, and that they desire to express this relationship with a marriage commitment. I believe that marriage, the public and legal proclamation by a couple as to their love and loyalty is a far more compelling act than “shacking up” as we used to call it, or some other way of avoiding a real commitment. Of course there are many people who happily remain single for very good reasons, but I remain convinced that most people want an intimate and trusting, one on one relationship, and that most of these couples want to have a successful marriage and family. I know that marriage seems to be on the rocks these days, and that too many couples and families are breaking up. Sadly, I am acquainted with several really bitterly divorced people. But at the same time I am friendly with literally dozens of happily married couples, most of whom have 6, 8, or ten children and while their finances are difficult and they are busy from dawn to dusk with their family and work responsibilities these couples seem very much in love and seem very very happy! Sure marriage can be difficult, and I have been told, a bad marriage is much like being in Hell. I cannot relate to that, I love my wife of thirty four years and four children with all my heart, and I have never been happier with my wife and children. And they with me! Frankly, I prefer to believe that most of us want love, happiness, and intimacy with a committed partner, and I prefer to believe that most of us find that love, happiness, and intimacy if we genuinely try.

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  11. Gratis Ptaka Says:

    Women are quite happy to depend on the government if the father doesn’t meet her expectations. Men are quite happy too, as higher taxes are a lot better than complete financial annihilation through divorce. Governments love higher taxes. Many same sex couples are going to want children. As the decline in heterosexual “marital” relationships continues, and it will, more and more will opt for same sex relationships and/or domestic partnerships/cohabitation. Traditionalist views on relationships will gradually become extinct. Polygamist like relationships and/or the broad acceptance of polygamist domestic partnerships amongst heterosexuals, bisexuals, homosexuals and lesbians will become more popular as well.

    Female empowerment means that there are fewer men capable of providing for a family. Women want the highest paying, most prestigious, most powerful jobs for themselves. At the same time, women want to marry up. As divorce is nearly a death sentence for breadwinning males, men are opting out of marriage and family. More and more, women will find that they’ll have to go it alone.

    Jobs have been shipped overseas so that corporations can benefit from cheaper labor costs. Engineering and high tech jobs are being filled by H1-B visa workers so that corporations can benefit from cheaper labor costs. Jobs that can be outsourced to stagnate wages are being outsourced. Mass immigration of low skilled workers is being used to stagnate wages and fill entry level jobs. Jobs are being contracted out by both the government and corporations to create a disposable workforce and to forgo the higher cost of directly employing workers. Both corporations and the government conspire to divide and destroy society through mass immigration, outsourcing, H1-B visas and division of the populace via race, gender, wealth and age.

    Most every bread winning man now knows the devastating consequences that divorce can have on their lives. The result of divorce is often severe psychological, emotional, legal, physical and financial destruction. For these reasons, men will continue to opt out of marriage and family or resort to cohabitation as a lessor of the two evils. As women become the majority of breadwinners, and they will, they’ll feel the same way. Feminism taught women that marriage was slavery. Breadwinning men now know that marriage is a death trap.

    The national debt will continue to rise. Entitlement programs will go bankrupt. Eventually, a tipping point will be reached and there will be a call to replace the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. Efforts to accomplish this are already underway. The negative consequences that will follow are unthinkable.

    The liberal/feminist model of heterosexual marriage has and will continue to fail. Most men aren’t going to allow themselves to be ruled by women in relationships. Women think they want to have power over men in relationships, but have no respect for and are repulsed by the men that aren’t at least their equal in terms of education, finances and social standing. Both sides under the liberal/feminist model are far more promiscuous, more likely to commit adultery and more likely to indulge in infidelity – even in the face of STDs. The playing field for the worst in human behavior is level under the feminist/liberal model.

    To sustain the population, prop up the GDP through population growth and to save the entitlement programs, the only solution from the government’s standpoint is mass welfare and tax breaks for single mothers and/or mass immigration. As xenophobia is common everywhere, the preferred method is going to be the mass acceptance of single motherhood and a massive increase in services for single mothers. How? Through higher taxes and/or the diversion of tax funds. More resources will be dedicated to same sex couples under this expanding model as well. This change is social values has been around for a while, is the norm in certain countries and will eventually become the norm across the globe.

    As time marches on, fewer and fewer will marry, out of wedlock births will become the majority, polygamy will be legalized, same sex marriage will become more popular and children raised by same sex couples will become widely accepted. The alternative is the threat of massive population decline like that found in Japan. A return to a “traditional culture” like that of the ’50s is highly unlikely for obvious reasons.

    As marriage/birth rates continue to decline, huge increases in spending on single mothers will ensue. It already has in several countries. As time passes, greater and greater efforts to enact legislation that benefits women at the expense of men’s lives will increase. Even though women already have enormous gynocentric privilege through current laws and policies, ever more misandric legislation is currently being pushed across the globe.

    Marriage and birth rates are tanking in Japan, Singapore, the Netherlands, Taiwan, Scandinavia, Canada, the UK, parts of the Middle East, France, Spain, Germany, Russia, Hong Kong, S. Korea, the US, etc. Mass immigration partially hides these facts. Parts of the Netherlands and Scandinavia are widely touted as social utopias in American mainstream media. What’s not talked about by the mainstream media is the declining marriage/birth rates, high taxes, high cost of goods, the increase in misandry through legislation and social upheaval due to mass immigration. What’s not talked about is that, where mass immigration is used to counter low marriage/birth rates, what follows is social upheaval, unsustainable spikes in welfare costs, the formation of xenophobic immigrant communities, the illegal implementation of laws within these communities (Sharia – for example) and a disproportionate increase in crime emanating from these communities.

    Because of the above, the push for ever more misandric laws will increase. Why? Because women make the babies and women won’t have the same power over men that they had through marriage. Cohabitation reform (aka: alimony and asset division) is going to come soon to force transfer of wealth from men to women. This is already being proposed in the UK and other places. Redefining domestic abuse in cohabitation in terms of bullying and denying monetary resources is also being pushed in the UK and other places. Why? To force the transfer of resources from men to women. In some countries, this is already law.

    In the future, about 20-30 percent will marry and have children within wedlock. The vast majority of births will occur outside of wedlock and marriage for most will become a thing of the past. In the US, 40% of births are already out of wedlock and marriage rates will continue the decade’s long decline. Singles in the US are now the majority.

    As a result of the above, massive shifts in social spending will be devoted to single mothers. This has already happened and will escalate globally. Policies and laws will also shift heavily in favor of single mothers.

    This is how deeply gynocentric, liberal, misandric, feminist societies operate, folks. Socialism will become the norm globally. You think capitalism is bad? Wait until you see how socialism works. If you don’t know how socialism works, there are plenty of historical examples from which to learn. Sweden, oft touted as a socialist utopia, ranks near the top in term of income inequality. Buckle up.

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  12. Steve Says:

    Women are quite happy to depend on the government if the father doesn’t meet her expectations. Men are quite happy too, as higher taxes are a lot better than complete financial annihilation through divorce. Governments love higher taxes. Many same sex couples are going to want children. As the decline in heterosexual “marital” relationships continues, and it will, more and more will opt for same sex relationships and/or domestic partnerships/cohabitation. Traditionalist views on relationships will gradually become extinct. Polygamist like relationships and/or the broad acceptance of polygamist domestic partnerships amongst heterosexuals, bisexuals, homosexuals and lesbians will become more popular as well.

    Female empowerment means that there are fewer men capable of providing for a family. Women want the highest paying, most prestigious, most powerful jobs for themselves. At the same time, women want to marry up. As divorce is nearly a death sentence for breadwinning males, men are opting out of marriage and family. More and more, women will find that they’ll have to go it alone.

    Jobs have been shipped overseas so that corporations can benefit from cheaper labor costs. Engineering and high tech jobs are being filled by H1-B visa workers so that corporations can benefit from cheaper labor costs. Jobs that can be outsourced to stagnate wages are being outsourced. Mass immigration of low skilled workers is being used to stagnate wages and fill entry level jobs. Jobs are being contracted out by both the government and corporations to create a disposable workforce and to forgo the higher cost of directly employing workers. Both corporations and the government conspire to divide and destroy society through mass immigration, outsourcing, H1-B visas and division of the populace via race, gender, wealth and age.

    Most every bread winning man now knows the devastating consequences that divorce can have on their lives. The result of divorce is often severe psychological, emotional, legal, physical and financial destruction. For these reasons, men will continue to opt out of marriage and family or resort to cohabitation as a lessor of the two evils. As women become the majority of breadwinners, and they will, they’ll feel the same way. Feminism taught women that marriage was slavery. Breadwinning men now know that marriage is a death trap.

    The national debt will continue to rise. Entitlement programs will go bankrupt. Eventually, a tipping point will be reached and there will be a call to replace the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. Efforts to accomplish this are already underway. The negative consequences that will follow are unthinkable.

    The liberal/feminist model of heterosexual marriage has and will continue to fail. Most men aren’t going to allow themselves to be ruled by women in relationships. Women think they want to have power over men in relationships, but have no respect for and are repulsed by the men that aren’t at least their equal in terms of education, finances and social standing. Both sides under the liberal/feminist model are far more promiscuous, more likely to commit adultery and more likely to indulge in infidelity – even in the face of STDs. The playing field for the worst in human behavior is level under the feminist/liberal model.

    To sustain the population, prop up the GDP through population growth and to save the entitlement programs, the only solution from the government’s standpoint is mass welfare and tax breaks for single mothers and/or mass immigration. As xenophobia is common everywhere, the preferred method is going to be the mass acceptance of single motherhood and a massive increase in services for single mothers. How? Through higher taxes and/or the diversion of tax funds. More resources will be dedicated to same sex couples under this expanding model as well. This change is social values has been around for a while, is the norm in certain countries and will eventually become the norm across the globe.

    As time marches on, fewer and fewer will marry, out of wedlock births will become the majority, polygamy will be legalized, same sex marriage will become more popular and children raised by same sex couples will become widely accepted. The alternative is the threat of massive population decline like that found in Japan. A return to a “traditional culture” like that of the ’50s is highly unlikely for obvious reasons.

    As marriage/birth rates continue to decline, huge increases in spending on single mothers will ensue. It already has in several countries. As time passes, greater and greater efforts to enact legislation that benefits women at the expense of men’s lives will increase. Even though women already have enormous gynocentric privilege through current laws and policies, ever more misandric legislation is currently being pushed across the globe.

    Marriage and birth rates are tanking in Japan, Singapore, the Netherlands, Taiwan, Scandinavia, Canada, the UK, parts of the Middle East, France, Spain, Germany, Russia, Hong Kong, S. Korea, the US, etc. Mass immigration partially hides these facts. Parts of the Netherlands and Scandinavia are widely touted as social utopias in American mainstream media. What’s not talked about by the mainstream media is the declining marriage/birth rates, high taxes, high cost of goods, the increase in misandry through legislation and social upheaval due to mass immigration. What’s not talked about is that, where mass immigration is used to counter low marriage/birth rates, what follows is social upheaval, unsustainable spikes in welfare costs, the formation of xenophobic immigrant communities, the illegal implementation of laws within these communities (Sharia – for example) and a disproportionate increase in crime emanating from these communities.

    Because of the above, the push for ever more misandric laws will increase. Why? Because women make the babies and women won’t have the same power over men that they had through marriage. Cohabitation reform (aka: alimony and asset division) is going to come soon to force transfer of wealth from men to women. This is already being proposed in the UK and other places. Redefining domestic abuse in cohabitation in terms of bullying and denying monetary resources is also being pushed in the UK and other places. Why? To force the transfer of resources from men to women. In some countries, this is already law.

    In the future, about 20-30 percent will marry and have children within wedlock. The vast majority of births will occur outside of wedlock and marriage for most will become a thing of the past. In the US, 40% of births are already out of wedlock and marriage rates will continue the decade’s long decline. Singles in the US are now the majority.

    As a result of the above, massive shifts in social spending will be devoted to single mothers. This has already happened and will escalate globally. Policies and laws will also shift heavily in favor of single mothers.

    This is how deeply gynocentric, liberal, misandric, feminist societies operate, folks. Socialism will become the norm globally. You think capitalism is bad? Wait until you see how socialism works. If you don’t know how socialism works, there are plenty of historical examples from which to learn. Sweden, oft touted as a socialist utopia, ranks near the top in term of income inequality. Buckle up.

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  13. Fyodor Says:

    I think that if you are finding that women don’t want relationships it is probably more the case that women, or at least those women who you are dating, don’t want relationships with *you*

    Providing advice would require a lot more specificity about the particular problems that the writer is having.

    I suspect that he is going out on one or two dates with women, not progressing much further, and attributing it to some sort of global female disfavor for relationships. “I am so wonderful-if only women were more relationship minded they would appreciate my fantastic qualities”

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  14. Steve Says:

    The men’s rights movement represents true feminism. MGTOW represents the total and complete rejection (and future collapse) of female privilege. MGTOW are an evolution of MRAs.

    MGTOW are the future of men. Across the globe, in all developed nations, men are opting out. Why? To understand why – you have to understand the power of projection. Ever have someone do something really bad and then blame the result of their bad behavior on you? If you have, then you understand projection.

    Here’s an example. This example can be applied to any number of things that women blame on men:

    The Blame: Men are obsessed with porn. This is causing a breakdown in marriage. Men are sex obsessed pigs. Women are forced into prostitution. Women wear revealing clothes because the patriarchy makes them.

    The Truth: Women take naked pictures of themselves and post them online because they’re obsessed with themselves and want others to be obsessed with them as well. Women wear butt floss, high cut skirts and low cut blouses to lure in naive, ignorant men to pay for their drinks and meals. Women sell themselves sexually to gain monetarily. Women use their bodies to gain favoritism in employment and education and to avoid traditional male labor. Women always claim victimization because they know the naive, ignorant cowardly white knights will fall to their knees for a sniff.

    Boys should be raised to “not be traditional men”. Boys should be raised into men that understand the centuries of social programming, brainwashing and manipulation that has gone into making them disposable utilities. Boys should be raised to reject the white knight role and to reject gynocentrism.

    Look at the BS movies that always put men in the position of sacrificing their lives for women. There are thousands of these movies. That’s some deeply, psychologically damaging stuff both men and women are doing to boys. It’s psychological abuse against boys and men. When a man doesn’t act in a way that’s self-sacrificing when a woman’s life is at risk, how is that portrayed in the media? These are obvious examples of self imposed misandry by men and women upon men and boys.

    The most important thing to teach boys is how gynocentric shaming and projection work. It’s also very important to teach boys how men help women proliferate gynocentric shaming and projection.

    Let them have it. Let women have all they want. Let them fight their own fires, their own wars and be humiliated and discarded with the same lack of empathy and compassion that men get. Let them build their own infrastructure and housing. Let women die by the tens upon tens of millions in wars for men’s and men’s children’s lives. “Men’s and men’s children’s lives”. Let women die homeless post divorce. Let women be rejected from homeless shelters in favor of men. Let women be stripped from all wealth post divorce. Let men get privileged status in college and employment.

    Cut off all donations to sperm banks. Women are starting to get the massage that they can get the best genes through sperm banks and have children later in life, without men. Men need to stop donating to these banks and these banks need to be blown into oblivion (by whom, I know not). That I have billions of sperms and that somehow makes women’s fewer numbers of eggs more valuable than my sperms is a dangerous train of thought. You just watch how quickly that calculation can change. You just watch how quickly revolution can take place.

    That women consider a sperm bank the equal of men is pure bigotry, sexism and represents the precursor to Hitler’s vision of establishing a “pure race”. It represents women’s hatred of men. You know what’s funny? Women are 10,000,000,000 times more misandric than men ever considered themselves misogynistic. Ever hear of a man wanting to establish an egg bank? Never, right? A man would never consider storing up women’s eggs in a plan to eradicate women. Further proof than men are naive and ignorant white knights. Women actually think about how they can be impregnated without having a man involved. They think about this process in terms of sperm banks. Think men. Think. Sperm banks represent the feminazi ideal of future male disposabilty. Men won’t be needed if trillions of their sperm are stored for future IVFs, right? Sperm banks represent the feminazi’s goal for the end of men.

    The end of men and the rise of the FemiNazi can be achieved through sperm banks. Take note, you naive, ignorant men.

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    • The D-man Says:

      Copypasta has taken hold among MRAs.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 4

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    • HammersAndNails Says:

      A+++++ Would read again. Do you have a newsletter i could subscribe to? Do you perform at the comedy cellar or ringling brothers most nights, caused I’d like to bring some friends for a good laugh.

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  15. Tinker Says:

    Steve I was about to suggest you hook up with Gratis as it seems y’all have a lot to talk about. Then I realized you were the same person… why two posting names?

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    • StevePtaka Says:

      I like to post under different aliases. I’ve posted on at least thirty different sites today. I sometimes can’t remember the alias I posted under last. I often read my last post, read the response and then list my last alias. Also, I post through an IP proxy, which makes me look like I’m coming from multiple states in the same day.

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      • ATWYSingle Says:

        Oh. Well in that case, do carry on.

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      • LostSailor Says:

        Well, ranting on 30 different sites, including multiple postings with transparent alias while spoofing your IP is certainly a way to convince people of the validity of your argument.

        Or not.

        Dude, you might want to take some time away from the keyboard. Maybe talk to someone. Not like a therapist or anything, but just to an actual human being. Because I can almost guarantee that you have never ranted like that to a live human being. Unless, of course, you like being tasered by the Emergency Services Unit in response to a 911 call of a disturbed individual…

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        • StevePtaka Says:

          “Dude, you might want to take some time away from the keyboard. Maybe talk to someone. Not like a therapist or anything, but just to an actual human being. Because I can almost guarantee that you have never ranted like that to a live human being. Unless, of course, you like being tasered by the Emergency Services Unit in response to a 911 call of a disturbed individual…”

          See, that’s what I mean. With all the evidence about them, people still choose to engulf themselves in illusions and enchantments. Exactly what part of my rant did you find erroneous? Everything I wrote was based on data and facts. Are you sure I’m the one in need of psychological evaluation?

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          • The D-man Says:

            What part of your rant? ALL OF IT!!! You clearly live in a world defined by shit you read on the Internet instead of real live. Stop posting o 30 sites a day and go out and meet people. Smile. Be friendly. Not because you want something, but because you’re, you know, friendly.

            With all the evidence about them, people still choose to engulf themselves in illusions and enchantments

            Lulz. Thirty sites a day and you accuse other people of being engulfed. The rest of us have jobs. The best of us are lucky enough to be pursuing our purpose.

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      • mindstar Says:

        Gratis, Steve, Patka whoever. It looks like you have way too much free time on your hands

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

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  16. ATWYSingle Says:

    Stop responding to him, please.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3

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  17. Mark Says:

    The letter writer asked an open ended question.

    Many of the replies were good responses. Fair and good ones at that.

    However

    A manifesto is not a reply. It’s an agenda…. Best echoed on a stool in the local park.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

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  18. Jesse Says:

    And just where are these women who don’t want a relationship? I think I’d have a better chance of spotting a unicorn. Really, send me some phone numbers. I’d live to chat them up.

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    • Eliza Says:

      Tons of women…increasing every year you can’t spot them from just looking at them…but through conversation it is quite evident. This is not say–that there still is value in finding that special person. What the blog is stating is that now women may be more picky about certain characteristics…not merely focused on a man’s financial stability. Although I don’t believe ANY woman wants a “financial liability or leech” on their hands…as goes with most men.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

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      • HammersAndNails Says:

        Ehh… This is a pretty hard idea to swallow because as a man when you are looking for women who are not seeking a relationship, they are VERY difficult to find.

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    • Shadowcat Says:

      I don’t know any women who don’t want a relationship, not one. (I’m not saying they don’t exist, but I don’t know any personally) I know a lot of women that gave up, and think they have to work with whatever realities they think exist in the dating world, especially as the years go on… Maybe back in our twenties, We had a few moments enjoying our freedom, but that was a long time ago when options were limitless (in our heads, anyway) and we thought we had all the time in the world. That however, is a completely different demographic.

      ->”I’ll say it, and people will probably flame me for it, but the idea of being in my late thirties or older and worrying about getting married sounds exhausting to me. Been there, done that, it wasn’t fun. After a certain point, it’s time to become more realistic. The more time that goes by without meeting The One, the quicker people need to start accepting the real possibility it won’t happen and formulate a Plan B.” <–Moxie

      YES. THIS.

      But this doesn't mean we don't WANT a relationship! I liken this to the time (and if you live in a big city, this will describe a lot of folks) who finally turned "that" age and decided that the modeling/acting/screenwriting/fine art/(insert glamour job here) bears a "real possibility it won’t happen and formulate a Plan B". So we went back to law school, or got a teaching license, or did whatever we needed to do to make life okay.

      I AM exhausted. I'm tired of holding on to these attachments and fantasies. Fantasies kept me single. If I had spent less time in my late 20's and early thirties at home in my apartment, obsessing and watching wedding shows on Lifetime, and more time out actually out meeting men, (and frankly, less years in dead-end relationships because I thought I had all the time in the world) I wouldn't be single now. I'm 44 now, I'm NOT going to let these obsessions ruin the second half of my life.

      I don't agree with everything Moxie said in her post, but I believe in this:

      "That doesn’t mean give up or quit. It means let go and just…live your damn life."

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

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    • BostonRobin Says:

      I think for the most part people who tell themselves (and others) that they “don’t want a relationship,” just want to “have a good time for now,” etc., say this as a distancing tactic. Sort of like saying you want to take things slow or be friends first. Only these people want sex. Just sex. And there had better not be any messy feelings involved or expectations.

      Wait though. I’ve had friends who went through this phase after divorce, just wanting to have a good time. They find it really easy to date then because they don’t get their feelings involved. When the loneliness gets to them and they want more though, all of a sudden love is nowhere to be had.

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  19. Noquay Says:

    Though I am in my 50’s, I’d love to be married again but only to someone who shares a good many of my core values such as taking care of oneself, being financially responsible, caring about the environment and community. Spent huge sums online dating, tried to force myself to settle with one uneducated local, a dude I just wasn’t attracted to, and the latest, a guy that claimed to want an LTR yet failed to disclose his ED and that he’d experienced severe trauma and still has some form of PTSD. Like Ben, I had a great marriage and the bar is set at that level. Being in a bad rship is indeed hell; you are not valued, yet your work load is doubled. Yep, I have rejected many men in this area, generally for what I feel were legitimate reasons such as financial and personal
    irresponsibility, excessive drug/alcohol use, bad hygiene and out and out lying about who they are. Yep, dudes have the right to let themselves fall apart, smoke weed all day, be sloppy, live in a dump, play video games, generally worship redneck culture. That’s fine and good; just don’t expect any but the most desperate women to date you. We do need to BE the person we want to date; no shortcuts. I don’t feel most of us chix want to be totally alone; the few that I know that are single by choice are recovering from either ugly divorces or spousal abuse and yep, financially were taken to the cleaners. I don’t like being totally alone, especially since the last of family just died, but, as someone struggling to save enough for retirement, paying off the aftermath of my dads death, having a mortgage, car payment just like everyone else, I really am not in a position to play sole breadwinner right now. Men here make one fourth of what I do; 90% of the eligible men here live near the poverty line, mostly due to their own choices in life. I stand to loose a lot if I marry one and the marriage fails, they only gain. Right now, I’ve taken a break from actively trying to find someone compatible and am focussing on simultaneously fixing up my home for possible summer sale, applying for jobs in more progressive areas yet still near woods (I am also a farmer and outdoors woman), and working on a project to ensure a supply of healthy local foods for this very impoverished place; work more satisfying just in case I am stuck here for a few more years. Covering all the bases. Many men would probably call me an elitist b@#$% for holding out for someone who shares my values, education, more of an equal but I call it demonstrating good common sense. The alternative, taking whatever one can get here, never has a happy ending.

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  20. Rose Says:

    Oh my god you sound like me, wish I had found this article days ago when I was feeling alone like something was wrong with me because I am content with being single. I share all the same sentiments and also have gotten comfortable with the thought it might never happen.

    I get shamed for not wanting to force a relationships and called a liar when I honestly don’t feel I need one. I started googling if I had a personality disorder because I couldn’t see the issue with my choice.

    I have been asking men to present something besides financial offerings , but instead they just say I will die alone or something is wrong with me, they don’t get that we can choose now and I think the thought is scaring them.

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  21. Greg Figueroa Says:

    Your limited worldwide doesn’t count as a totality. It’s like the guys who say women only date tall guys. Don’t let your fears drive your confirmation bias.

    You can do a pre-nup.

    You can actively communicate with your partner.

    You can stay single (but it’s not the only way).

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  22. Gratis Ptaka Says:

    My decisions are not driven by fear. They’re driven by an honest assessment of reality and data. I lack the need to cloak myself within naivete, illusions and enchantments.

    Psychologists seem to agree that most require illusions and enchantments to function at optimal mental health levels. I’m one of those that can function optimally without them.

    Prenumps are not the panacea people believe them to be. Most don’t figure this out until its too late. I suggest you speak to an experienced divorce attorney if you believe otherwise.

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  23. Gratis Ptaka Says:

    Wait – Here’s one that will surely get some up votes. Here’s the #1 reason women are so dissatisfied with relationships:

    http://check-your-privilege-feminists.tumblr.com/post/95979451581/i-dont-understand-how-are-you-not-a-feminist

    Keep down voting me, folks. I know the truth is painful. I know it makes you feel better to kill the messenger. From a psychological standpoint, it makes perfect sense.

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  24. D. Says:

    To desire to kill the messenger, one must first accord the message a degree of credence.

    I think you’re safe.

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  25. Gratis Ptaka Says:

    What could possibly convey the truth in my words more than the evidence that’s all about you. That most choose to avoid the truth isn’t my fault. Here’s you future and the future of your children, grandchildren and great, great grandchildren folks. All studies back up my message. What do you have to discount the facts I present? Being unhappy with me because your narrative doesn’t fit with reality is not a reasonable foundation upon which to stand:

    Women are quite happy to depend on the government if the father doesn’t meet her expectations. Men are quite happy too, as higher taxes are a lot better than complete financial annihilation through divorce. Governments love higher taxes. Many same sex couples are going to want children. As the decline in heterosexual “marital” relationships continues, and it will, more and more will opt for same sex relationships and/or domestic partnerships/cohabitation. Traditionalist views on relationships will gradually become extinct. Polygamist like relationships and/or the broad acceptance of polygamist domestic partnerships amongst heterosexuals, bisexuals, homosexuals and lesbians will become more popular as well.

    Female empowerment means that there are fewer men capable of providing for a family. Women want the highest paying, most prestigious, most powerful jobs for themselves. At the same time, women want to marry up. As divorce is nearly a death sentence for breadwinning males, men are opting out of marriage and family. More and more, women will find that they’ll have to go it alone.

    Jobs have been shipped overseas so that corporations can benefit from cheaper labor costs. Engineering and high tech jobs are being filled by H1-B visa workers so that corporations can benefit from cheaper labor costs. Jobs that can be outsourced to stagnate wages are being outsourced. Mass immigration of low skilled workers is being used to stagnate wages and fill entry level jobs. Jobs are being contracted out by both the government and corporations to create a disposable workforce and to forgo the higher cost of directly employing workers. Both corporations and the government conspire to divide and destroy society through mass immigration, outsourcing, H1-B visas and division of the populace via race, gender, wealth and age.

    Most every bread winning man now knows the devastating consequences that divorce can have on their lives. The result of divorce is often severe psychological, emotional, legal, physical and financial destruction. For these reasons, men will continue to opt out of marriage and family or resort to cohabitation as a lessor of the two evils. As women become the majority of breadwinners, and they will, they’ll feel the same way. Feminism taught women that marriage was slavery. Breadwinning men now know that marriage is a death trap.

    The national debt will continue to rise. Entitlement programs will go bankrupt. Eventually, a tipping point will be reached and there will be a call to replace the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. Efforts to accomplish this are already underway. The negative consequences that will follow are unthinkable.

    The liberal/feminist model of heterosexual marriage has and will continue to fail. Most men aren’t going to allow themselves to be ruled by women in relationships. Women think they want to have power over men in relationships, but have no respect for and are repulsed by the men that aren’t at least their equal in terms of education, finances and social standing. Both sides under the liberal/feminist model are far more promiscuous, more likely to commit adultery and more likely to indulge in infidelity – even in the face of STDs. The playing field for the worst in human behavior is level under the feminist/liberal model.

    To sustain the population, prop up the GDP through population growth and to save the entitlement programs, the only solution from the government’s standpoint is mass welfare and tax breaks for single mothers and/or mass immigration. As xenophobia is common everywhere, the preferred method is going to be the mass acceptance of single motherhood and a massive increase in services for single mothers. How? Through higher taxes and/or the diversion of tax funds. More resources will be dedicated to same sex couples under this expanding model as well. This change is social values has been around for a while, is the norm in certain countries and will eventually become the norm across the globe.

    As time marches on, fewer and fewer will marry, out of wedlock births will become the majority, polygamy will be legalized, same sex marriage will become more popular and children raised by same sex couples will become widely accepted. The alternative is the threat of massive population decline like that found in Japan. A return to a “traditional culture” like that of the ’50s is highly unlikely for obvious reasons.

    As marriage/birth rates continue to decline, huge increases in spending on single mothers will ensue. It already has in several countries. As time passes, greater and greater efforts to enact legislation that benefits women at the expense of men’s lives will increase. Even though women already have enormous gynocentric privilege through current laws and policies, ever more misandric legislation is currently being pushed across the globe.

    Marriage and birth rates are tanking in Japan, Singapore, the Netherlands, Taiwan, Scandinavia, Canada, the UK, parts of the Middle East, France, Spain, Germany, Russia, Hong Kong, S. Korea, the US, etc. Mass immigration partially hides these facts. Parts of the Netherlands and Scandinavia are widely touted as social utopias in American mainstream media. What’s not talked about by the mainstream media is the declining marriage/birth rates, high taxes, high cost of goods, the increase in misandry through legislation and social upheaval due to mass immigration. What’s not talked about is that, where mass immigration is used to counter low marriage/birth rates, what follows is social upheaval, unsustainable spikes in welfare costs, the formation of xenophobic immigrant communities, the illegal implementation of laws within these communities (Sharia – for example) and a disproportionate increase in crime emanating from these communities.

    Because of the above, the push for ever more misandric laws will increase. Why? Because women make the babies and women won’t have the same power over men that they had through marriage. Cohabitation reform (aka: alimony and asset division) is going to come soon to force transfer of wealth from men to women. This is already being proposed in the UK and other places. Redefining domestic abuse in cohabitation in terms of bullying and denying monetary resources is also being pushed in the UK and other places. Why? To force the transfer of resources from men to women. In some countries, this is already law.

    In the future, about 20-30 percent will marry and have children within wedlock. The vast majority of births will occur outside of wedlock and marriage for most will become a thing of the past. In the US, 40% of births are already out of wedlock and marriage rates will continue the decade’s long decline. Singles in the US are now the majority.

    As a result of the above, massive shifts in social spending will be devoted to single mothers. This has already happened and will escalate globally. Policies and laws will also shift heavily in favor of single mothers.

    This is how deeply gynocentric, liberal, misandric, feminist societies operate, folks. Socialism will become the norm globally. You think capitalism is bad? Wait until you see how socialism works. If you don’t know how socialism works, there are plenty of historical examples from which to learn. Sweden, oft touted as a socialist utopia, ranks near the top in term of income inequality. Buckle up.

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