Why Can’t He Get Any Online Dates?

Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): Lost_in_San_Diego469_doc-love-confused-by-her-double-talk_flash

:
Comment: I’m single, handsome (although, admittedly, I could lose 50 lbs) and not a player (never even had a one night stand). I’m intelligent, fiscally responsible and am employed full time in a lucrative career. I’m fun. I’m funny. Female friends (people that know me) tell me I’m a catch, so it has to be my profile or approach. I actually meet people and date in person, I just haven’t found Ms Right.

In the 4 years since my divorce, I’ve had accounts on Match, Cupid, eHarmony, POF, and I even tried Zoosk. I’ve even moved from the Bay Area to a new city. In that time I’ve had 12-15 dates (and I now have 12-15 horror stories).

Today, after emailing back and forth with a nice young lady, joking, laughing and we’d even started to flirt a little, she replied with: “I finally got around to reading your profile in its entirety. It seems we have a lot in common, but I wanted to tell you I have no interest in pursing things any further. Good luck with your search.”

I just don’t get it. I contracted Match to write my profile for me, and after proofing it several times (and having previously mentioned female friends proof it) I bounced it back until there was a profile we all agreed was good, yet it seems that anyone who doesn’t already know me is instantly put off by my online presence.

Moxie, what am I doing wrong? Are there specific DOs and DON’Ts when writing a profile?  Why is my dating profile like kryptonite to women who, “on paper” are a perfect fit?
Age: 45
City: San Diego
State: California

 

Today, after emailing back and forth with a nice young lady, joking, laughing and we’d even started to flirt a little, she replied with: “I finally got around to reading your profile in its entirety. It seems we have a lot in common, but I wanted to tell you I have no interest in pursing things any further. Good luck with your search.”

It’s very important for you to realize one thing: while your profile does need work, that’s probably not why she bowed out of the conversation.  The fact that she would say something like, “I have no interest in pursuing things further” proves she’s kind of a jerk. There’s no need to express a lack of interest that bluntly. She was never interested in you. You should have been offended that not only didn’t she read your profile before talking with you, she told you as much. This woman didn’t care if she hurt your feelings.

That you claim to have had 12-15 bad dates as well as appear to engage people who aren’t genuinely interested in you says to me that you’re batting out of your league in some way. That or there’s something about your presentation or demeanor that is turning people off. Without meeting you, I can’t tell for sure.  I’m getting a bit of an awkward/tries too hard/something isn’t quite right vibe from you, if I’m going to be really honest. Your profile includes mentions of being in tune with your emotions, cats, and your interest in theater.  Do you see where I’m going with this, LISD?

Let’s further unpack your profile. First, I have worked with a number of clients who have hired Match.com to write their profile, and each time I am horrified at the results. Your profile is no different. Between the multiple mentions of how you love your cats to the admissions about how you like to talk about your feelings, your profile begs women to friend zone you. The line that says you’re a closet romantic and eager for someone to “finally” open that door implies that you’ve had very little luck in finding love, which is something you should never admit in a profile. Then there’s the fact that you start off your profile saying how you moved to “get a clean slate.” Yikes. What does that mean? A line like that implies that you were either running away from something or are leaving a dark past behind. It doesn’t help that the profile also references all the work you’ve done on yourself. Revelations like that give the impression that you are or were unstable or unhealthy in some way.

The nail in the coffin is where you say you like woman who embrace their curves and who are gracefully feminine. In today’s culture comments like that are interpreted as sexist. Gracefully feminine? What does that even mean? Like, do you want us walking around twirling parasols and wearing petticoats?

Just like women run the risk of coming across “too strong” in her profile, the equivalent of that is men coming across “too soft.” You come across too soft. You have to find a way to add some balance to your profile. Right now, come off like a potential pal, not partner. Showcasing a softer side is great, as is highlighting your assertiveness and confidence. Unfortunately, many people don’t know the line and end up sounding “too much” of something that they don’t intend. Balance is the key.

As for your crush on your cats, in general it is a bad idea to mention your pets in your profile beyond selecting the “have cats/dogs” option in the basic details sections. While cats are more independent and don’t require as much managing, they still require a level of responsibility on the part of the owner. They can’t leave a cat unattended for two days. Cats aren’t that big of a deal, although many, many people have serious allergies. If you talk a lot about your cats, people are going to start to worry that the cats run rough shod over your home and leave hair everywhere. It’s much more complicated for dog owners. They can’t leave their dogs for more than a few hours at a time and much of what you do has to be scheduled around their needs. As we’ve discussed here before, owning a pet is one of those lifestyle choices that limits your options and can be a bit of a red flag.

As for the messages you send, that first message should be straightforward and brief. Don’t try to be witty or charming or funny. Let your profile do that for you. That initial email should express interest and that’s it. Constantly trying to craft interesting messages that make you stand out will quickly lead to burnout.

Of course your friends will tell you you’re a catch and I’m sure in many ways you are. But you’re friends are too close to you to be able to be objective. I honestly think your challenge is two-fold: I think you go for people out of your league and I think the persona you project in your profile is one of a friend, not of a potential romantic partner.

 

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79 Responses to “Why Can’t He Get Any Online Dates?”

  1. HammersAndNails Says:

    Girl has a non-teacup dog? +5 points.

    I’m not responsible enough for a dog. Dating someone with a dog? perfect!

    • Jess Says:

      I have a boxer/pit mix. He’s a dude magnet. Best wingman ever, let me tell ya.

      • Jim Says:

        As a male of about the same age as OP who has also found online dating way underwhelming, I agree with virtually all of the comments, notably the weight, cats, and excessive openness. In an environment where superficial, split-second assessments are the norm, a lot of weight can be a turnoff. Real-life situations are the ones in which people have the luxury of letting more than looks do the talking. Leave out the cats altogether. I know I’m turned off when women post multiple photos of dogs or of hugging dogs, captioned with ‘my little boy’ or some such; it’s weird, and it makes the viewer think this person isn’t so much looking for a partner as acting out a search, thinking she SHOULD have a partner. A dating profile is like a resume: it’s designed to get you an ‘interview’ – aka a date – nothing more. It’s not supposed to sell someone your entire life story. Cats can come later (I love ‘em, BTW, but they’re nowhere to be found on my profile). And, for the same reason, ditch the excessive forthrightness about starting over or what have you: it sounds somewhat self-pitying, and no one, really, is interested – at least not until they get to know you. Lack of total honesty in this case doesn’t mean dishonesty; it means mystery. You want to bring some of that to the table; you don’t want your date (when/if you get there) to be thinking, ‘Here comes sad sack, starting over… with me.’ Aside from these points, it’s anyone’s guess. Online dating is an exercise in frustrated communication and lots and lots of e-mailing. Put your best foot forward, not a tentative toe. Good photos, strong writeup – and, oh: don’t stop going out to meet people. That’s most likely where it will happen.

    • Fyodor Says:

      I told my wife on our first date that I wanted a girlfriend with a dog so that I play with it without being responsible. Of course, now that we’re married I’m on the hook too.

  2. Nicole Says:

    I love Moxie’s response, especially the part about coming across as too soft. Yes, women appreciate a guy’s softer side, but it’s the more stereotypically masculine traits that initially attract most of us. You can show your emotional vulnerability and “feminine side” as you get to know a woman better.

    A few other thoughts…

    Unless it was a typo, those 50 extra pounds are going to make online dating harder for you. Instead of meeting you in person and getting to see your personality, intelligence, and looks all at once, women online initially just see a still photo. And they see that photo next to hundreds of others. It’s easy to fall into the mode of automatically dismissing anyone who isn’t thin and conventionally attractive, and women do it just as much as men. Omitting full body photos doesn’t really work either – most people will be put off by that. I’d definitely invest in the best candid style professional photos you can find, if you haven’t already.

    Moxie quoted you as saying you like women who ” embrace their curves”. If I was reading your profile, I’d see that as a polite way of saying you like bigger women. As a skinny side of normal woman, I wouldn’t bother to respond to you… Because I’d assume that were messaging me out of desperation because you couldn’t get the curvier women you preferred. So unless you have a very strong body type preference, I’d take that out.

    On the pets thing… I mentioned my giant slobbery dogs several times in my profile, even had a picture of me with them, and my dating life didn’t suffer because of it. In fact it was a good ice breaker for guys to use starting conversations. I understand what Moxie is saying about people being put off by someone who has to schedule around pets, but on the other hand, if you have them, you kinda need to screen for people who are cool with that. Most pet owners have figured out how to use dog walkers, pet sitters, etc, so we can date like everyone else. I used to board my dogs on date nights if I was going to be out late. I think the pets thing may deter some people, but it will attract others, and the ones it attracts are more likely to be compatible with your lifestyle long term.

    • KK Says:

      Also, I can say this for myself. If a guy messaged me and I read in his profile that he “likes women who embrace their curves,” i would freak. The fuck. OUT. Because all I’d think would be, “so then he thinks I have ‘curves’ to embrace,” which means he thinks I’m fat.

      It doesn’t matter what the OP truly thinks. I just think a lot of women would think this way. Because, well, just because a woman has a body type a man likes, this doesn’t mean SHE likes her body type. She might not hate her body, and she might be generally confident, but she might not consider herself, or want to consider herself, the “curvy” type.

  3. Speed Says:

    OP, first lose that weight, or as much of it as you possibly can. Trust me, it can be done, and it’s no secret: radical change in diet (portion control, cutting out junk food, etc.), and daily exercise. If you can shell out the money for it, a personal trainer is a boost here, since they’re pushing you daily to meet your health goals.

    Again, I speak from experience when I say that you’ll feel more masculine and confident, and be more productive in your career and life. You’ll definitely attract more women, and you’ll have a higher sex drive as well. Again, trust me on that: you’ll get your dollars up and your date card full. A win-win, in my experience.

    Women may write in their profiles that they’re looking for someone who’s gentle, “not macho” or even “liberated from patriarchal archetypes.” In my experience, that’s just a bunch of baloney. There’s definitely a niche market for soft, poet-warrior types, but generally women, especially those over 40, want a guy much closer to John Wayne than Woody Allen.

    Women watch your confidence levels carefully, as in your body language, voice tone, and how firmly you deal with others. They also focus a lot on your ambition levels. You don’t need to be Bill Gates, but, especially at our age, women want to know that you’re trying to fatten the bank account and upgrade your life. Most importantly, they hate slackers. Young hipster dudes can get away that, but not us oldies. A lot of women have divorced slacker husbands, so they definitely don’t want a repeat.

    Which brings me to the “young lady” you talked with. If she’s a 20 or early 30-something, forget her. It is not impossible to date young women, but generally the odds are stacked way against you—especially if you are looking for anything long-term. At all events, don’t be one of those guys banging his head against the keyboard because the Taylor Swift lookalikes aren’t responding to messages. There are plenty of 40+ women who are fine, anyway.

    I guess I’m asking you to radically change, and that’s true. Like any other animals, we men have to radically change to suit our environment as we age, and the demands thereof. Man up, and I’ll see you in the gym, bro.

  4. yb Says:

    I am going to echo the previous commenter and say that you should really lose the weight. Perhaps joining a health club or a hiking meet up group would yield better results for you than online. This way you can meet women and sell your personality/ warmth. I think online is more for the standard/ conventionally attractive. I think even at 6’2” (I’m generously guessing this height), 50lbs over weight still puts you well outside the norm. Best of luck. And yeah, the rest of what Moxie said.

  5. Robyn Says:

    Whatever you do, do not “lead with” how much you love your cats!
    And definitely do not mention your cats multiple times in your profile.

    Either or both of the above references to your cats send the message that you are overly emotionally attached to your cats – which highly likely means that they rule the roost and any woman in your life will be in second place behind them.

    Which is a major turn-off for most women, I would think.

  6. Noquay Says:

    I too (pun intended) are going to say its the weight thing. Being an active woman (ultramarathoner, snowshoe racer, farmer) who at one point tried to date a heavy man, seeing a photo of someone heavy elicits two assumptions: One, you’re inactive; folk that want to sit on the couch are not a good fit for someone who wants to get up and DO something. Two, given your age, that you’re male, you’d be perceived as unhealthy whether you actually are or not. The majority of middle aged men with weight issues have heart issues, blood pressure issues, which become more serious, leading to many more health issues. Don’t mean to be harsh, but remember your appearance in photos determines whether your profile is even read. Works that way with us chix too. A third possibility is your talk about curvy women; which seems to be a warning against those of us of the small chested, wiry persuasion we need not apply. I think it’s cool to mention your cats, not wax poetic over them. I have multiple cats/dogs/farm critters and its never been a dating issue; if dudes do not contact me because of the herd, Ive dodged a bullet. Folk who dont want to be inconvenienced at all, by anything, to the point of living a sterile life, are a far greater red flag. Usually a group of pet owning friends care for others critters when needed and one does the same for them.

  7. ATWYSingle Says:

    His weight isn’t his biggest challenge. Weight isn’t an issue if you’re attracted to people who are also attracted to you. Plenty of people who carry extra weight find partners.

    • Fyodor Says:

      Eh-maybe, but people in SoCal are pretty judgmental about weight and 50lbs is a lot. I agree that he probably needs to target his audience better.

      • yb Says:

        yes. i’d like to know if he is open to dating a women who is also 50lbs overweight. it’s funny the overweight ppl i know don’t even want another overweight person.

        • Joey Giraud Says:

          No, the 45 year old overweight guy with a soft heart and cats and who seems proud to not be a “player” is going after 20 year old hotties and wondering why he’s not succeeding.

          I’m no player either, but I’m also not delusional, and I think Moxie is being entirely too nice.

    • Nicole Says:

      Sure, but so do plenty of people who are emotionally needy and obsessed with their cats.

      I think people are talking about the weight because it’s a concrete goal he can work on, and one that will definitely increase the number of women who consider him as a potential partner. Maybe one of those new women in his audience will be totally cool with his current profile and lifestyle.

      And for a lot of people, losing weight or toning up is the quickest improvement and self esteem boost. Personally I’d have an easier time changing any aspect of my physical appearance than shutting up about my dogs.

      • Julie Says:

        Its true that improving your appearance and fitness level is a great way to boost your confidence. But I agree with Moxie that thats probably not the OP’s biggest problem. A thin guy who wants to talk at length about his many feelings and starting over with his cats comes across as effeminate and most women just dont go for that. A chunky guy with the right attitude especially one with a sense of humor and at least a hint of masculinity is a chick magnet even in So Cal.

    • Snowflake Says:

      I agree, I don’t think weight is the issue, he comes across as too desperate, too much too soon, not masculine enough (or at all), trying too hard even.

      I feel his approach needs to be worked on and how he comes across as a first impression. Put it this way, even if he lost the 50lbs and was looking all ripped, just reading a profile like he has would just be off – putting. Ie its too much work, for me. My first impression is you are just being too honest with all your baggage, baggage we all have but it should only be revealed when the timing is right, that way it comes across as, yeah i have baggage but its under control, dealt with, this says to me, here I am baggage in your face..

      Just my 2 cents..

    • Nate Says:

      This is totally wrong. This is the no 1. reason he’s not getting much interest from girls.

      Just because it’s possible doesn’t mean it’s not causing him problems.

    • AnnieNonymous Says:

      I don’t think that a lot of people who are 50 lbs overweight state their perceived attractiveness with such aplomb.

  8. PwdrPuff Says:

    With only your letter and Moxie’s comment’s regarding your profile to go by, for me you come across creepy, desperate, and shooting way out of your league for someone in your age demographic and locale.

    When you mentioned you were chatting up a “Nice Young Lady”, I can only assume you were referring to someone much younger, like early 30s to maybe late 20s. The comment also gave me the creep vibe as well, but that might just be me.

    From someone who has lived in San Diego for quite sometime, I can tell you that dating here is nothing like it is in say NY. The Male ratio is much higher here, due to its very large military presence. That means women can be much more selective in finding dates, even after 35. And because this isn’t the OC or LA, there isn’t a lot of women looking to be taken care of by a older gentleman. Having said all that, I would reevaluate what you are looking for and what you’ve successfully been able to pull in the recent past.

    As for your profile, Moxie is dead on with all her suggestions. Everything she brought up about your profile would be a red flag/turn-off for me. I’m not sure why that lady you conversed with was inordinately rude to you, but it almost seems like there might be more to that story. Regardless, I would have probably chosen not to meet up with you after reading your profile as well.

    As for mentioning your love of cats, I would highly suggest leaving it to only a check box notation, and not mention anything in the body of your profile. Right or wrong, a man’s preference or love of cats isn’t attractive, despite what your friends might say. In summary, I would suggest a complete rewrite of your profile, with all of Moxie’s suggestions, and maybe higher someone to help you with that and getting through initial interactions.

    • mgm531 Says:

      I’ve often heard the claim of a higher men to women ration in San Diego, but in reality it’s not as substantial as it may seem. While it is true there are more men than women in San Diego (indeed, it’s true for most of California for that matter) it’s only about a 2.5% difference. In reality that’s not a very significant differnce:

      Male To Female Ratio For San Diego, CA/California

      The male to female ratio is 100:97, and the female to male ratio is 103:100.
      The male population is 579,839, and the female population is 564,924.
      There are 14,915 more males than females in San Diego; in percentage terms, there are 2.57% more males than females.
      The median male age is 32.65 years, and the median female age is 34.52 years.
      The average household income in San Diego is $50,290, and the average house value is $260,137.
      Source: U.S. Census Bureau Data

      • Steve from the City Next Door Says:

        I had similar discussion with a friend who was a marketing researcher. She told me that for those numbers a lot of military is excluded…it depends on what they have done. Many remain registered as where the enlisted rather than officially moving so are counted differently.

        Then you have to look at the appropriate age group. This discussion was when I was mid-30s…if you looked at where I lived overall it was pretty balanced…but single 30-39 was 100 women for every 125 men. And that didn’t account for effect mentioned above…I lived close to a military base.

        then consider a large number are in stably matched off. say 95% of women. then (100-95) to (125-95) so it is 5 women for 30 men…or 100 to 600. That is not a good dating situation.

  9. bbdawg Says:

    I have met men who complain it’s “really hard to meet women online” and 9 out of 10 times they just happen to like much younger, very toned, in-demand women. These men were ok looking and interesting in their age group. But they were not in the age range – or desirability range – the women they were interested in were seeking. And at the end of the day, *in comparison to what is out there* they had less to offer.

    I wonder if the OP is reaching out to women who, like him, are 50lb overweight. Maybe he should seek the overweight cat ladies and find a match for his own overweight cat gentleman thing.

    I wonder off-line, what kinds of women the OP normally pulls…

    • Joey Giraud Says:

      By “pulls” you mean meets, dates, gets involved with, maybe has sex with.

      PUA codewords get tedious.

  10. Steve from the City Next Door Says:

    It sounds like he is doing somewhat OK in person…so then, OP are you approaching similar types of women online as in person and not having the luck online? if not then it means nothing

    If OP is having luck in person but not online with the same types of women then…
    maybe they aren’t the same type of women if though he things so
    there is something really different in presentation…maybe he carries the extra 50 well but doesn’t picture well or they just see that fact and look no further. Maybe he just much more dynamic…
    Maybe it is :he is here so might as well chat” vs I have 100 emails to look at.
    And well, that profile sounds really bad. It sounds … well weird or like he is trying way too hard.

    • Yvonne Says:

      That’s what I was wondering. Are the 12-15 failed dates all from online? I get the sense, though, that none of his dating is working out, which says to me that something about his approach isn’t working. I can definitely see the issues with his online profile, though.

  11. Fyodor Says:

    How old are the women he’s approaching-I ask because he says “nice young lady” though I understand that the term is sometimes used in a non-literal way.

  12. Kyra Says:

    I’m sure having pets is a red flag for some, but I count it as part of my screening. I love my dogs, and if you can’t handle that I have two collies, I really don’t think we’d be a good match anyways.

    Not to mention that it helps show my active side, since I don’t really do sports or go to the gym, but I love running at the park with my dogs.

    That said, they only take up one or two sentences in my profile; I don’t ramble about them.

    I definitely agree with Moxie’s assessment of coming across as too soft though! A balance is required, no doubt.

    • sandra Says:

      First off, if all his dates have been “horror stories<" then their is a disconnect between what he is presenting / has to offer vs. the women he is selecting. At 45, when he says "nice young lady" that means a woman much younger. I know Moxie said she was too blunt / rude, but I am not what would have been a better way to say it, without just ghosting. I know it hurt his feelings, but fading does not feel good either. Why is he only contacting " nice young ladies?" Why not average women his own age? Of course, we know the answer.

    • Fyodor Says:

      Also, dogs >> cats.

  13. mindstar Says:

    The OP says he’s only had 12-15 dates in 4 year. This works out to about ONE date every 3 to 4 months. He’s really not even trying if he’s only dating about as often as he files quarterly taxes.

    As others have said dropping the excess weight will only improve your options as will changing the parameters of what your searching far. Date closer to your age and leave the 20 somethings for the SEALS training at Coronado.

    And dude drop mention of your love affair with your cat. It comes across as a little strange

  14. Nate Says:

    This advice is completely wrong. The reason women aren’t attracted to you is you aren’t attractive, which is because you are overweight. Your pictures are 95% of your profile in online dating. So much it doesn’t matter much what you write, you can’t talk your way into being attractive, especially not with plain text (no charisma etc.)

    Lose the weight and get some stylish clothes, and take some better pictures, now and after you’ve lose the weight.

    • Kyra Says:

      You can absolutely talk your way in (and out of) being attractive! There are men who I was pretty blase for until they opened their mouths, and their intelligence was a total turn-on.

      Likewise, you can be the most handsome guy in the world, but if he have nothing to discuss, I’ll have no interest.

      • mindstar Says:

        Kyra that works for men where charm and intelligence can compensate for less than sterling looks.

        But many men are not even going to consider messaging a woman unless he finds her attractive thus she never gets to display her charm and intelligence because she’s not considered from the get go.

        This is even more true in online dating since most people just judge based on the pictures. In real life you have a better chance of using charm/intelligence to boost you’re attractiveness.

        • Kyra Says:

          Well that just goes to not batting out of your league then, doesn’t it?

          Most of my dates go really well because we have a lot to talk about, even if the chemistry isn’t there 100% of the time.

          I’m certainly not a looker, but I get good quality dates because, at least I think this is why, my profile is well written.

          • yb Says:

            if you are AVERAGE you can talk your way into being attractive or unattractive. That’s why most of us try to be charming and kind.

            If you are gorgeous you’ll always be gorgeous; if you are 50lbs overweight, it’s going to be nearly impossible to talk your way into attractiveness. Doubly so online.

            • bbdawg Says:

              Yeah the issue of being “overweight” in the OP’s case is that he seems to think of it as a minor detail in his overall attractiveness level (he calls himself handsome), but he comes off as just another middle-aged corporate middle manager puffy dude with fantasies from his married days who thinks he’ll just reinvent himself with a “younger lady” above his league.

              The problem here is that I have the impression the OP wouldn’t look twice at a 42 YO woman’s profile who “could lose 50 lbs” and is really into cats, basically an age-compatible, good combination for him.

  15. Celeste Says:

    Moxie, I’m confused by: “The fact that she would say something like, “I have no interest in pursuing things further” proves she’s kind of a jerk. There’s no need to express a lack of interest that bluntly. ”

    I don’t know how to search your posts to find what I’m thinking of, so, yes, it’s quite possible that I’m remembering this wrong, or misunderstood what (I think) you originally wrote.

    With that said, according to my random access memory… in one of your earlier posts, you described how you’ve politely disengaged after meeting someone you weren’t attracted to, or how to firmly disengage from someone you’ve given your phone # to, and it was something along the lines of “I liked you, but don’t feel a connection. I wish you the best, but do not wish to maintain contact.”

    I really liked “I do not wish to maintain contact” because it’s hard to misinterpret, doesn’t invite rebuttal, and firmly ends the discussion. But in your reply to LISD, you come down pretty hard on someone who said “I have no interest in pursuing things further.”

    Do you see these two phrases — or their contexts — as very different?
    If so, what nuance am I missing?

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Saying, “I have no interest in pursuing things further” is not politely disengaging. There’s being honest, and there’s being too honest. I only tell someone i don’t wish to maintain contact if they’ve pushed for further explanation as to why i don’t want to go out again. You’re comparing/misremembering two different situations

      • Shadowcat Says:

        “You can absolutely talk your way in (and out of) being attractive! There are men who I was pretty blase for until they opened their mouths, and their intelligence was a total turn-on.” I

        I agree with Kyra there, but only IRL, Not online, as was said many times before, most of what have to go by online is superficial. If a woman is that incredibly turned off by your photo, she won’t read the profile, and you certainly aren’t going to get a chance “wow” her with your sparkling personality if you never get the first date. I’ve been in serious LTR’s with men I met IRL that I absolutely would have deleted if I saw them online.

        And men with cats should probably downplay their affection for them, it’s considered a “chick” thing, like saying you love Rom-Coms and bodice-ripping novels. Not very masculine…..

  16. LISD Says:

    ATWYSingle:

    In hindsight I think posting to your blog was a mistake, but at least it’s opened my eyes.

    I grew up in Canada and was taught to be gentlemanly, chivalrous, and polite. Based on the commentary, this seems to be the last thing women look for. I can honestly say I find it both surprising and eye-opening.

    I literally had no clue I was simpering, though it’s pretty obvious now that was the case–I need to relearn my entire approach to interacting with women.

    I’m amazed at how judgmental and hurtful some of your readers are…must be nice to be perfect; why are they all regularly reading a dating blog again?

    * Regarding the rude woman: there was nothing more to the story. What I didn’t share is the totally inappropriate email I sent to her afterward. I wrote: “Thanks for your candor. Good luck in your search.” Seriously. I thanked her.
    * I’m 6’1″
    * I cringed at “nice young lady” too. One friend said it was “sweet” so it stayed; it’s not literal.
    * The age range I’m searching is 35-48. What could I possibly have in common with someone more than 10 years younger than me?
    * I’m not attracted to slim or athletic women, thus I don’t introduce myself to them. There’s nothing wrong with that body type, I’m just not into boney or ripped (nor would I be at my ideal weight).
    * My non-attraction to slender/athletic women is where the Match writer derived “gracefully feminine” and “embrace their curves” (her words, not mine).
    * I’m an intelligent guy and I know immediately who’s out of my league (and whose league I’m out of; judgmental, but a fact).
    * Cat comments: point taken. I was told it was “cute” and I believed it. Truth told: if a woman has more than one picture of her and her dog–or a picture of her and more than one dog–I pass.
    * I have no pictures of my cat on my profile; never have.
    * To those that offered sincere feedback, insight and advice: thank you — I’m not a creeper, I’m naive and have a lot of bad habits to break.
    * Oh, and to “Nate,” whose repeated commentary refers to weight being the reason I’m not meeting women: f*ck you

    LISD

    • bbdawg Says:

      Yeah OP

      “I grew up in Canada and was taught to be gentlemanly, chivalrous, and polite. Based on the commentary, this seems to be the last thing women look for”.

      That’s not true. We women appreciate that, AFTER decisiveness, resolve and other classically “masculine” qualities. I dated a man who was a gentleman, but before that he was very direct, knew what he wanted, communicated that and that was very attractive because he showed that while he was very masculine (from my perspective) he was comfortable with himself enough to treat a woman in gentlemanly ways. He hasn’t resentful like most “nice guys are” (i.e. “I am a supportive man, I don’t even like sports, I cook for you, I help you with your problems, I am a good listener”). That screams “my dick is on permanent vacay”.

      How you interact with women is you don’t act wishy washy. You ask her out, you make decisions and you are not trying to “be nice” and spiritual like a friend because we (I) interpret that as a man who is not at ease in his masculinity. When I have a personal problem and I want to analyze and tall in circles I call a girlfriend or meet one.

      Women resent men who are too aggressively sexual (i.e. hookup messages from strangers), but we also shun men who act like they aren’t really masculine either. For a lot of women masculinity is NOT related to appearances necessarily (i.e. shirtless photos don’t work), but to ambition, decisiveness, focus, will-to-power, confidence, etc…so we (I) navigate more naturally to that.

      Men who try too hard to please and have are too at ease with emotions come off as a having feminine or best gay friend qualities. If you are a heterosexual woman you are most likely attracted to people that have qualities that are opposite of what you naturally have. If you like watching Oprah, keep that to yourself.

      Also this:

      “* Cat comments: point taken. I was told it was “cute” and I believed it. Truth told: if a woman has more than one picture of her and her dog–or a picture of her and more than one dog–I pass.”

      You state that you love cats but a woman who has pictures of her dog is shunned and passed over??? So weird. I love dogs I say that on my profile and I respond positively to men who have pictures with animals.

      You mention you “know your league” I think we’d be curious to hear more because clearly “your league” and their league are not compatible, it is not working for you.

      • LISD Says:

        bbdawg:

        “You state that you love cats but a woman who has pictures of her dog is shunned and passed over??? So weird. I love dogs I say that on my profile and I respond positively to men who have pictures with animals.”

        Is that what I wrote?

        I like dogs; I don’t love dogs. If a woman’s profile has 10 pictures and several are of her and her dog, our interests/priorities likely don’t align. If you post a (single) picture of you and Fido, I’ll typically think “awww, cute.” If there are multiple pictures, and multiple dogs, I’ll typically think “she’s already got her hands full.”

        If someone’s profile indicates she dislikes cats, I don’t contact her. There’s no double standard, if that’s what’s being implied.

        “You mention you “know your league” I think we’d be curious to hear more because clearly “your league” and their league are not compatible, it is not working for you.”

        If you can adequately explain how that’s “clear,” I’ll consider sharing more. What I’ve read is a dozen replies indicating my profile sets off alarm bells; that’s its effeminate and creepy. You don’t know me, or the people I interact with, so how can you possibly make a judgement about league compatibility?

        • mindstar Says:

          LISD bbsawg’s quesyion is legit.

          If it was working out for you with the women you were dating you wouldn’t be asking for advice.

          You’ve had 12-15 dates and in your own words 12-15 horror stories. The only constant in all those dates is you.

      • LISD Says:

        ““I grew up in Canada and was taught to be gentlemanly, chivalrous, and polite. Based on the commentary, this seems to be the last thing women look for”.

        That’s not true. We women appreciate that, AFTER decisiveness, resolve and other classically “masculine” qualities.”

        … so it is, literally, the last thing you look for.

        • Snowflake Says:

          ““I grew up in Canada” – Please do not insulte Canadian men with that generic statement, your place of birth does not translate to how you come across as a person. I live in Canada and for how you come across on this forum you are not nice and neither are you witty or attractive. You translate as a whiney, entitled, victim with a “butthurt complex”

          You wrote in for advice and those of us who focused more on giving you feedback on how you are perceived gave you feedback without being malicious. However you did not receive it that way at all. Instead you stooped to name calling, for giving you honest feedback.

          You can lose all the extra weight, but until you self reflect on your demeanor, nothing will change your dating success. Like I said before, weight(loss) has zero to do with this.

        • J Says:

          Sigh. Kind of old thread but I’ll add this anyway. Most men I know like a woman who can cook. It becomes even more important when he lacks those skills himself. However, how will he know whether or not I can cook until we have a few dates and end up at the stage where I would be cooking for him? See the point? Just because something falls in a logical order after something else does not make it “the last thing you look for”.

    • Joey Giraud Says:

      “I’m amazed at how judgmental and hurtful some of your readers are…must be nice to be perfect”

      Then “I need to relearn my entire approach to interacting with women.”

      Stop whining. That’s your first lesson.

      • LISD Says:

        “Stop whining. That’s your first lesson.”

        Oh, Joey…in a few more years–once you’ve gotten through puberty–I’m sure you’ll learn how string more than 8 syllables together.

        Troll

        • Joey Giraud Says:

          Troll.. how droll.

          Really though, erudition can’t compensate for weakness.

          • LISD Says:

            So you can actually form cogent sentences…now we can have a dialog.

            I fail to see how intelligence can be misconstrued for weakness. I fail to see how politeness (or naiveté) can be misconstrued for weakness. I have no idea what you’re on about.

            Your only proffered advice is to stop whining. How is that in anyway helpful? How is that meant to be anything but incendiary?

            You want the bottom line? You want me to talk like a bro? Here it is:

            Dude, I was married for a long time (~20 years). When I was younger I was a varsity athlete and ripped and sought after, but I was never a player. Of my (roughly) dozen relationships, I never once pursued a woman; they always sought me out. I was a total douche, ignoring the ones I wasn’t into. My ex-wife hounded me for 11 months before I finally gave in and went on a date with her. Even my one semi-serious relationship post divorce, I was the prey.

            I do alright face-to-face, because my personality and charm is immediately apparent. We all have busy lives, and meeting people face-to-face is a challenge: are they single? are they straight? are they even remotely compatible? Online dating is supposed to facilitate that, isn’t it (or is that something else I’m naive about)? The algorithms sort through parameters and present people who, if the chemistry is right, are a potential mate.

            The bottom line is I have no experience with regards to meeting women online…because I never had to develop the skills. Could you just write naturally, or did you learn somewhere along the way? Some things need to be learned.

            I ask an average of 1 woman out in person each month. I’ve been on a lot of first dates, several second dates and several 3rd dates as a result. I don’t hit it and quit it, it’s a core value. If I don’t feel the right vibe, I move on. I don’t want to waste my time or hers.

            Whining? Nah, man, I’m calling it like it is. People hide behind the veil of the Internet and snipe, because it’s safe. I’d bet money that no one would say any of the shitty things they wrote directly to my face.

            Cowards.

            So how about cutting me a little slack and offering some useful advice. If you’ve got none, that’s cool, but stop being a dick.

            • yb Says:

              You wrote in for advice and now you are angry you got it. You have resorted to name calling because you don’t like the advice you got. The commentariat was hurtful, they think they are perfect, and your biggest gem “they are cowards”.

              You actually don’t sound like a very nice person. If you were my good friend, I would def talk to you about a healthy lifestyle to your face. Do you realize you are 45 and that as you get older it is only harder to lose weight? And it is not just the matter of attracting a hottie, it is a matter of health. Staying active and fit to avoid diabetes, pressure on your knees and organ failure. I am always in shock that ppl walk around being well beyond “a few lbs over weight ” and think that’s normal. I am beyond shocked that you write in for advice and then get all whiny. You are def not as nice as you think.

              • LISD Says:

                yb:

                “You wrote in for advice and now you are angry you got it.”

                I’m not sure what you’re basing that observation on. There is plenty of feedback, both good and bad, included in this thread. I’m thankful for the constructive commentary.

                I’m disgusted with the obvious weight-prejudice exhibited by several members, and the obviously provocative nature of messages posted by others.

                “You actually don’t sound like a very nice person…You are def not as nice as you think.”

                And you sound sanctimonious; I guess we’ll just have to agree to dislike each other.

                Weight: Who here (raise your hands) thinks I enjoy being overweight? Who thinks this isn’t a health concern for me? Who thinks I don’t vividly remember spiking volleyballs down my opponents throats? Who here thinks I don’t miss weekend-long water polo meets or basketball tournaments?

                Who here knows my life situation?

                Who here knows my medical history?

                Ya, I have a medical history; is that supposed to somehow mean I’m not permitted to find a significant other; am I somehow unworthy?

                I workout 4 times a week–50 pounds used to be 80 pounds.

                My wife left me because I’m a slacker?

                I divorced her after she cheated on me while I was working those long hours to beef up the bank account which, in California, she happily emptied as a reward for her infidelity.

                You presume to tell me to stop whining? How dare you, when all I’m doing is standing up for myself under a barrage of judgmental diatribe formulated around preconceived assumptions.

                Remember the old adage: “never assume, for you’ll make an ASS out of U and ME” Kudos; many of you nailed it.

                Moxie, Speed, Steve, DMN, Pwdrpuff and Nicole (and the others who shared constructive commentary): Thank you for kind words, advice, suggestions and encouragement. Speed, dude, seriously, awesome post…thank you.

                To the rest of you, I urge you to expand your horizons and educate yourselves; your ignorance isn’t doing anyone any good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weightism

                • bbdawg Says:

                  Dude, CHILL

                • Snowflake Says:

                  This is what I mean you have poor demeanor. Instead of taking the high road with the non-constructive feedback and the poor taste and hurtful comments you get defensive and you name called and here you start in about how “hard” your life is spilling details that most of us wouldn’t.

                  I am guessing this is how you probably come across to dates in person hence the unsuccessful dating history, you have explained you are dating in your age bracket and are looking for women who are similar to you… so all I am left with is how you translate.

                  The comments about your long hours, your ex wife, your marriage, your health issues… to me are not warranted. People who don’t mean well should be ignored. This isn’t “standing up for yourself”..

                  Take a step back and put yourself in out shoes, how would you take someone who said all of what you have?

    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      I could make some observations and suggestions but I don’t think they’d be well received. I’ll just say, having read your commentary, that your instinct to “sass” may be a problem in and of itself if you’re interested in women.

      I will also say that you clearly got some really embarrassingly shitty advice from Match which I truly hope you didn’t pay for. You should avoid talking about any physical qualities that you’d prefer in a partner – it’s a turn off, even to those who may be your type. How long has Match been around that they don’t know that? I agree with the commenter above that the subject of “curves,” in any event, is an exceptionally touchy area that is best avoided, in an online profile or otherwise. You’re highly likely to offend, and make people feel fetishized. If you like a particular “type” just keep it to yourself and don’t respond to people you’re not attracted to.

      Profile writing is a simple matter of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and trying to understand how they might receive what you present. Just try doing that. And stay fabulous.

      • LISD Says:

        “I’ll just say, having read your commentary, that your instinct to “sass” may be a problem in and of itself if you’re interested in women.”

        I have no idea what you’re referring to. Online correspondence is “tone deaf;” what you write, you may believe to be sassy…because you wrote it–for those of us not inside your head, it’s open to be interpreted any number of ways. I have no problems interpreting sass or engaging in playful banter face-to-face.

        “…shitty advice from Match which I truly hope you didn’t pay for. ”

        I paid Match. It wasn’t inexpensive either (there were multiple rewrites).

        “…don’t respond to people you’re not attracted to.”

        I don’t.

        • LISD Says:

          DMN

          It’s been pointed out that I may have misinterpreted the point you were making regarding sass, that you were referring to sass in my profile not in one-to-one correspondence. In rereading your comments I see that’s likely the case. Excellent feedback. Thank you.

          To reiterate: I didn’t write my profile, a woman from Match Profile Pro did; multiple times. I posted it, reluctantly, after having had it reviewed by female friends.

          I wonder if perhaps the sass you’re referring to is what was responsible for my original hesitation. I still remember thinking “well, they know better than I do” the moment I pasted it.

          • ATWYSingle Says:

            The fact that a woman wrote your profile explains quite a bit. As you said, that profile you sent me sounded incredibly effeminate.Now we know why.

            Also, I would change your avatar to not be a picture of yourself. Especially if you use that photo in your profile. Just for privacy reasons.

      • LISD Says:

        “Profile writing is a simple matter of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and trying to understand how they might receive what you present. Just try doing that. And stay fabulous.”

        Sound advice; thank you for that.

    • PwdrPuff Says:

      Thanks for chiming in. Yeah your country of origin makes more sense for your type of approach. Canadian men are a bit different than American. I think the match people really lead you down the wrong path with your profile. You seem very self aware and releastic to me. Maybe you should hire Moxie to help you with your profile and approach or go for meetups locally.

      • LISD Says:

        And thank you for the encouragement.

        “Maybe you should hire Moxie to help you with your profile”

        Already done.

        • PwdrPuff Says:

          Have you tried meetups or speeddating? I live in SD as well and definitely branched out from online dating when I was single & looking. There’s endless possibilities with the year round great weather and various types of people here.

          • LISD Says:

            “Have you tried meetups or speeddating?”

            Not yet, although I do have several meet-ups bookmarked. There’s one in particular that I stumbled upon over the holidays, but I didn’t register–the legit ones seem to require members get vetted–and now I can’t find it.

            Speeddating seems awkward to me in principle (how much can you learn about someone in 5 minutes?) but I’ve resigned myself to giving it a try in the spring if I’m not seeing anyone.

            • PwdrPuff Says:

              You just have to take the plunge with meetups. I was a member to several while living in NoCal, but finally went for it here. You’ll meet lots of good people but I would advise going for non-singles events. Less pressure.

              As for speedating, it was weird then kinda of fun after a while. And no, I never did find one date, even when both of us said yes to the each other. Having said that, it was great way to quickly gain experience in talking and meeting with new people. Made me much more comfortable and natural with my online dates.

              • LISD Says:

                “I would advise going for non-singles events. Less pressure.”

                Fair point. Most of the ones I have bookmarked are professional, nerdy or SCUBA-related. I just need to do it.

                My only hesitation comes from experience with meet-ups in the Bay Area; I found the ones I attended there to be somewhat elitist and unwelcoming.

    • Nicole Says:

      LISD,

      No, none of us are perfect, but a lot of us have drastically improved our dating lives and/or found lasting relationships with the tough love type advice that gets offered on this site. That’s why we’re such assholes ;)

      Most guys who write in here want a thin woman who’s at least 5-10 years younger, so that’s the automatic assumption commenters make unless we are told otherwise. It sounds like you are looking for the women who are looking for you, which is great.

      I used online dating for the same reason you did – the hope that it could help me find compatible potential partners. It’s a great reason, but it actually is a little naive. Most guys online aren’t carefully reading profiles for women who will be great long term matches. They’re messaging anyone and everyone they think is hot, usually with poor grammar and spelling.

      So you should totally stand out from the competition, right? Yes… Except that women who have been online dating for even just a couple of weeks become naturally suspicious. We start to assume every guy is a creep until proven otherwise. That’s one big difference between online dating and meeting women in real life, you’re starting from less than zero with someone who already has her guard up.

      The other big difference you pointed out yourself – online communication is tone-deaf. I think that might be where you’re having problems. The things you think are sweet and chivalrous – young lady, gracefully feminine – read as condescending and paternalistic to a lot of women. and what DMN referred to as “sass” – the witty comebacks, the playing on words to turn the meaning – comes across not as clever but as defensive and angry. I think the key is not to try so hard, honestly. Your original letter was stiff and awkward, but your later off the cuff comments are just as well written but have a much more relaxed and natural tone.

      On the cats… Personally I’d think it was great if a guy talked forever about his cats. But then, I’m one of those multiple dog women (and a runner and gym rat, too) so yeah, mentioning them is probably attracting exactly the women you don’t want!

      Good luck!

      • LISD Says:

        “No, none of us are perfect, but a lot of us have drastically improved our dating lives and/or found lasting relationships with the tough love type advice that gets offered on this site. That’s why we’re such assholes ;)”

        Nicely put. As mentioned previously, the advice has been a complete eye opener. I’m appreciative of everyone who offered constructive feedback, both positive and negative. Emphasis on constructive. I’ve said my piece to the trolls; I won’t be baited into responding to any more snarky rhetoric.

        “Except that women who have been online dating for even just a couple of weeks become naturally suspicious. We start to assume every guy is a creep until proven otherwise.”

        I was certain of that, despite reassurances to the contrary from friends and, yes, dates.

        Let me ask this: is trading “war stories” a common first-date activity? Half of the online dates I’ve been on, I’ve ended when it gets brought up as a topic of discussion; it just seems awkward to me and, rightly or wrongly, ensures that particular date will get added to the list of “horror stories.”

        “Horror stories…” How I regret that choice of words. I dated one woman for several weeks and another I’ve become good friends with. Of the others, several were just a question of no chemistry, but the remaining ones were really…well…disturbing; those are the ones I remember immediately when I think about my online dating experience.

        “I think that might be where you’re having problems. The things you think are sweet and chivalrous – young lady, gracefully feminine – read as condescending and paternalistic to a lot of women. and what DMN referred to as “sass” – the witty comebacks, the playing on words to turn the meaning – comes across not as clever but as defensive and angry”

        More fair points; I noted somewhere in this thread that I get that now; eyes opened.

        I understand what sass is, but I interpreted the initial feedback to mean I wasn’t “getting” sass. If your take on what she meant is correct, then I’m sassing women via my profile without even being aware I’m doing it. More naiveté–I’ll keep an eye on it.

        Thanks, Nicole; insightful.

        • Nicole Says:

          “Let me ask this: is trading “war stories” a common first-date activity?”

          Unfortunately, yes. Part of it is that people actually have some really entertaining stories from bad dates. I had good dates and “meh” dates, no horror stories, but some of the messages I got online do make for good comedy.

          I don’t see talking about bad dates as the red flag some people do – most of the time the person is just trying to make conversation, or get you to stroke their ego a little by telling them that they’re way more awesome than everyone else they’ve met.

          I never talked trash about anyone in particular, but if a guy asked about my dating experiences, I did make them sound generally lackluster. “Nobody I felt any chemistry with” or “a lot of really boring guys”. I just did it to make the obviously nervous guy across the table from me feel better.

          In general I’d say don’t bring up war stories – not on the first few dates anyway – and if she does, laugh at her stories and say something vague about how you’re just glad you’re finally on a date with her. Of all the guys I went out with, only one didn’t tell a single dating horror story… And its probably not a coincidence that he’s my boyfriend now.

          (And yes that’s what I meant about “sass”… That trying to engage in that level of sarcasm or banter with someone you’ve never met in person is risky and can be easily misinterpreted.)

          • Noquay Says:

            We all have our on line war stories, some funny, some downright scary. However, sharing these with someone who is, for all intents and purposes, a veritable stranger, is in itself telling. I’ve just said “there was no compatibility” and leave it at that. If the dude yammers on and on about this one, that one, you know darned well he’ll be yammering on about YOU to his next date. Next.

    • Noquay Says:

      LISD
      It makes more sense, your being Canadian. As a “near Canadian” from the far northern Midwest, I can attest that western/California culture is a whole different animal than what we’re used to. I found out the hard way that behaviors that are clear indications of interest to us mean absolutely nothing to many Westerners. They hug constantly, compliment your looks, look deeply into your eyes, caress your hair, even invite you on weekend trips and it means diddly squat! Men probably get some version of this from Western women. Hiding rships with others, overlapping, cheating, breaking promises, not showing up and little accountability. Behaviors that would make us northerners persona non grata back home. On line is the absolute worst in these respects. I too wondered what was wrong: Went back north this summer and it was a different planet: Men smiled, showed interest, even had a coupla dates with a good, high end, not desperate guy although I was in mourning and at my worst. Is the situation different for you if/when you go back? It may be a matter of literally a cultural difference. In terms of our individual preferences as to build, education, etc, there’s no point in even mentioning them as again, few actually read our profiles in any detail. Just do as everyone else does and decide whether or not to read further and make contact based on whether you like what you see in the photos. Since you seem articulate, mannered, IRL is probably a much better option, maybe art openings, festivals if you’re into these things. Say hi to those cats for me, eh?

  17. coffeestop Says:

    He could also try and lose the weight. I have a friend who is in his early 60’s. He is quite handsome and in his day, up until about mid 40’s, he was seriously hot. He knows he was seriously hot and he had more than his share of women. The problem is he is now older and at least 50 pounds overweight but he still thinks he looks like he does 15-20 years ago, he always complains to me about only attracting middle aged women. He thinks he can still land the babes. He can’t. He got mad when I pionted out he could easily be banging these middle aged women if that is what he wanted. Some people are not very realistic about themselves and who they can attract. I am 50 myself, I look average, I am happily dating somebody because I was realistic about who I thought I could attract. I know I probably won’t get married again and I want to enjoy myself while I still can.

  18. AnnieNonymous Says:

    I’m going to be superficial here and say that when you lead with “I’m handsome” (as in, you think that’s your top quality when it comes to initial attraction) and then admit that you could stand to lose 50 pounds, I’m not going to assume that you’re telling the truth about possessing all of those other good qualities. There’s no overlap between “handsome” and “50 lbs overweight.” If he’s not pursuing women who are also 50 lbs overweight, he’s gotta sit back and completely rethink his strategy.

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