This Is The Only Successful Online Dating Strategy You Need

Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): Akiraguyfrustrated
:
Comment: I’m a straight guy living in LA and I’ve been on and off Okcupid and other dating apps for the better part of four years. I can’t say I’ve ever had a single ‘long term’ relationship from it at all. I’ve had many dates over the years and have managed to have a few sporadic one night stands and hook ups. In the last year or two since I turned 24 I noticed I’ve been getting better luck with that, but still not enough luck. Not really sure why. I’m now 26 and I’d honestly like to find something that lasts. I don’t really know what is wrong with my strategy, but I’m only able to get a date or two every two months and I message hundreds and hundreds of girls. I try make my messages clever and witty so they stand out. Usually just making some fun observation or a random question. I also try to ask women out within 3-4 email exchanges otherwise it wastes too much time and usually the conversation burns out. Why is there such a low success rate on these sites?

I should tell you that I’m a fairly average looking guy. Most people would probably consider me a 5-7 out of 10 in looks. I’m in a normal weight range but I’m short 5’8″ and partly Italian and Spanish. I’ve always thought that this may be a problem cause I’ve heard that the only guys who have a lot of success on these sites are white, light haired, and usually 6’0″ or taller. Is race and looks really playing such a big factor in this? Do I need to get professional photographs? My pics are taken with my Android phone in good lighting.

Is there any strategy that you could recommend that would help me actually get dates more consistently with women. Should I ask girls out sooner, craft a certain type of message, use quickmatch? Should I consider copy and paste and mass messaging? I really just feel disappointed with the whole online dating experience.
Age: 26
City: Los Angeles
State: CA

 

There’s only one good online dating strategy. Here it is:

  • Have a great dating profile
  • Know your audience
  • Message people who show initiative first
  • Keep that first intro message short and don’t try to be funny or clever or witty and don’t ask any questions
  • Let your profile convey your personality
  • Exchange no more than 3-4 messages each before you set up a date
  • Get off line as quickly as possible.

That’s it. The one other thing I’ll add, and this might not be what you or many others want to hear, but online dating is not for finding relationships. It’s called online dating for a reason, and that’s because online dating is about getting dates. I’ll be even more provocative and say that if your explicit and sole goal is to find a serious long-term relationship, then avoid online dating all together. The online dating business model is not designed to find people ever lasting love. It is designed to foster the belief that we all have an endless supply of options and can afford to be picky. That way we stay on those sites like some Atlantic City granny who keeps sticking her quarters in the slot machine hoping for those 3 lemons to come across her screen.

You are in LA,  an extremely competitive dating market. On top of that, you are in an age range where the women have the upper hand in terms of options. It does not surprise me that you struggle to get dates, as that is common amongst men in your age bracket. The women you are communicating with are being bombarded with messages, which means they are going to be extra selective.

I honestly can’t speak to the issue of race when it comes to online dating. I know that OKCupid has written blog posts about it and thrown all this data and sciencey stuff at people and everybody oohed and ahhed over the data. I’m also white, which means my personal experience on whether or not race plays a factor in all of this is limited to my own. I have heard from many people who aren’t Caucasian that they believe their race has significantly impeded their online dating experience. Since the readership of this column is quite diverse, I’ll encourage readers to share their personal experience on this matter. They can do you far more justice than I could. I have no doubt that race does play a part in an online dating site user’s success rate. I also have no doubt that people of color have experienced their fair share of racism and feeling fetishized. I just don’t have any first hand experience on this topic.

Do looks play a part in your response rate? Of course they do. Do you have to be ridiculously good looking to get responses? No. You just have to present yourself in an appealing way and know your audience.  It seems that many people are utterly clueless when it comes to knowing how to write a profile where they come off interesting and engaging.They just list a bunch of over-used adjectives and talk about how much they travel and love their life. Yawn. Zzzzzz.

This is how you craft a compelling About Me Summary. I don’t really feel like repeating myself since I’ve already written about this before. That post also covers the type of photos you should use and whether or not you should pay someone to take professional candid shots.

I will add one new tip. Try to include a specific memory or experience in your About Me summary that most people will relate to. I had one client who talked about how popcorn was her favorite comfort food. When I asked her why, she said it was because popcorn reminded her of warm summer nights when she was in high school watching movies on the grass in the park with her friends. I had her choose a specific film to make the memory that much more vivid. She chose Back to The Future. That’s a tangible and somewhat universal experience that people can connect with. It’s always smart to make your profile more “local.” Meaning, pepper it with mentions of things that people in your area or age bracket will recognize, like a restaurant or song or movie. That creates a sense of familiarity.

When it comes to sending messages, focus your efforts on the people who demonstrate interest first. Always check your visitors list and contact anybody that interests you, regardless of whether they messaged you. Sign up for  a paid OKCupid subscription so you can see who rated you. And, of course, reply to anybody that messages you that you like. I would drastically cut back on sending out a bunch of messages to random people. That is THE leading cause of frustration amongst online daters. Just..stop doing that. It’s an absolute waste of time. You don’t have to stop messaging people who don’t initiate contact completely, but you should use this option sparingly. Sending dozens of well crafted messages doesn’t work for most people, and for those that it does work, it’s because they are using something- money, sex, status –  as bait. I can’t tell you how many dating blogs I’ve read where women were like, “So I just get soooooooooooo many emails on dating sites and have sooooooooo many dates” only to find their profiles and see that they’ve used sex as bait. Trust me when I tell you, these people bragging about how many responses they get are leaving something out of the story.

Don’t get caught up in the messaging aspect of the online dating experience. Let your profile speak for you. Use the messages to convey your interest without coming off too invested. Keep the messages simple and brief and don’t ask probing or personal questions. My personal recommendation if someone wishes to engage in extended email banter is to bail. YMMV on that one. I just don’t have time for people who do that. If they aren’t willing to meet relatively quickly, I keep it moving.

I find OKCupid’s Quickmatch feature to be thoroughly useless. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve swiped right and gotten a match and then looked at their profile and went, “Oops. No thanks.” I’ve also had an irritatingly high number of Quickmatches that I’ve emailed who have never responded, which means they looked at my full profile and bailed. The Quickmatch feature is fraught with frustration and confusion and disappointments. If you want to use Tinder, use Tinder.

You can copy and paste messages, but you have to include something in each message that demonstrates you read their profile. That’s a must.

Could your profile need work? Possibly. I can’t say for sure until I see it. If you’re finding that you’re just not getting any responses, either from the people you’re messaging or other users, then that’s probably a sign that there’s something wrong with your profile or your messages. You probably should book a session so that I can tell you if there are any red flags. I would say that most people write their profiles in a manner that is counter-intuitive simply because most people aren’t all that introspective. At this point, the profile text is mostly used as a way for people to determine if you and they aren’t compatible and not the opposite. If the photos work for someone, they read the profile to see if there’s anything that gives them pause as well as (if not more so) to determine compatibility.

Most importantly, you need to remember that your online dating experience is not unusual or indicative of there being problems with you. And if the problem is with you, most of those challenges can be fixed with some re-tuning of your photos and profile text.

Online dating isn’t the impossible task most people think it is. It just takes understanding your market and audience and knowing how to promote yourself in a way that is engaging and attractive.

 

 

Psst! Like our new Facebook page, please?

Follow Us on Instagram

30 Minute One on One Dating Profile Review

Get a 30 minute one on one review of your profile with me.  I’ll go over your picture selection and ad text and let you know if your profile includes any buzz words or red flags. I’ll also help you tweak/write your profile if it needs some freshening up.

$45 – INCLUDES:

  • Profile analysis (30 minute phone session.)
  • Assistance with editing and re-writes
  • Photo selection and review
  • A review of online dating basics and how to attract more views to your profile
  • How to craft better introductory messages to get more responses
  • Feedback about specific issues and experiences

$45 (Use code BLOG to save $10)

Eventbrite - ATWYS One on One Dating Profile Analysis & Critique

 

45 Minute One on One Dating Profile Review

Get a 45 minute one on one review of your profile with me.  I’ll go over your picture selection and ad text and let you know if your profile includes any buzz words or red flags. I’ll also help you tweak/write your profile if it needs some freshening up.

$55 – INCLUDES:

  • *Profile analysis (45 minute phone session.)
  • *Assistance with editing and re-writes.
  • *Photo selection and review.
  • *Feedback about specific issues and experiences.
  • *Site selections  and Pros & Cons of the more popular dating sites.
  • *Overview of online dating basics – how to write intro messages, how to draw more attention to your profile, how to sort your searches so you can see profiles you might be missing.

$55 (Use code BLOG to save $10)

 

Eventbrite - Master Match.com & OKCupid

 

Let Me Write Your Profile For You

$95 – INCLUDES:

  • *A complete re-write of your self-summary and other profile sections as well as what you are looking for in a partner or date.
  • *Assistance with editing and re-writes.
  • *Photo selection and review.
  • *Feedback about specific issues and experiences.
  • *Site selections and Pros & Cons of the more popular dating sites.
  • *Learn how to write better intro messages that will get responses
  • *Get tips to draw more attention to your profile
  • *Learn how to sort your searches so you can see profiles you might be missing.

$95 (Use code BLOG to save $10)

Eventbrite - Master Match.com & OKCupid

 

 

 

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
Share

80 Responses to “This Is The Only Successful Online Dating Strategy You Need”

  1. HammersAndNails Says:

    “Message people who show initiative first”

    Stop giving this advice to men. Please.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 37 Thumb down 7

    Reply

    • Sherry Says:

      I agree. As a female who used to date online, I was kept busy by simply responding to the men who messaged me. I didn’t conduct searches or browse through profiles of random men. I never sent the first message, and I rarely initiated contact.

      Although I know that gender roles are becoming increasingly outdated, my personal experience has been that the flaking, fading and ghosting behaviors disappeared almost overnight once I strictly dealt with men who contacted me first.

      To the letter writer: although I cannot stand EHarmony, you may wish to use that dating site if you are looking for the relationship that will turn into marriage.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4

      Reply

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      This advice is given to both men and women. The leading cause of online dating burnout is sending out a bunch of messages and not get any many responses versus contacting the people who do initiate interest in some way and getting a much higher response rate.

      Go ahead and continue to use the least successful route if you like.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 21

      Reply

  2. Keep it Simple Says:

    My favorite strategy: Don’t rely on online dating to get 100% of your dates. Aggressively pursue dates offline.

    These days most people seem to rely too heavily on the online experience. Online was designed to be a supplement, not the only way to get dates. Therefore, if you are very active offline, not only does it make online easier and less stressful. It makes you come off as more confident.

    OP is 26 in LA. The beach and bar scene alone should generate many dates…offline.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 2

    Reply

  3. Craig Says:

    If I may be so bold, my advice would be to seek the advice of those who successfully navigated online dating and found a life partner. Those who have been doing it for years without success are in the same boat as the OP and likely have no more of a clue. Contrary to Moxie’s opinion, online dating is set up to be used for finding relationships – if that is the user’s intention. And that’s the key here – you are only going to get out of online dating what you put into it in terms of, intentions, effort and attitude. And if you go in expecting failure, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Here’s a few key tips: 1) only use paid sites. 2) buy a minimum 6 month membership – nothing is going to happen in just 30 days. 3) be yourself in your profile and post several candid photos including full body shots – no hats, sunglasses, or weird outfits. 4) have a friend of the opposite sex choose your photos and review your profile text. 5) don’t lie – put your true height, occupation, body type, and marital status, etc. 6) Contact at least 10 people a week (no winks). 7) Don’t get frustrated and grow a thick skin. The best of us are lucky to get a 10% response rate. Being confident and secure means being okay in the knowledge that many people you like won’t like you. 8) be realistic – you know who you’ve historically attracted offline. That doesn’t figure to improve online.

    Online dating is essentially playing the law of averages – the more you play, the more likely you are to win. I contacted over 2,000 women online before landing my wife on Match.com 7 years ago. We are friends with many married couples who met online. It works. You just can’t do it for 30 days, get frustrated and quit. It doesn’t work that fast.

    Does ethnicity affect your chances? Let’s not be naive. Of course it does. But so does being fat, short, poor, and a host of other things. You can’t use those as crutches. I couldn’t get a lot of the women I pursued because I wasn’t Caucasian, but I did get several who didn’t care about such things – and in the end one is all I needed. Adjust your expectations and focus your efforts on those who clearly state a preference for whatever you are. Believe me, it’s a lot less frustrating that way. Good luck to all.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 60 Thumb down 5

    Reply

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      This is why people who are married or who haven’t dated in a significant amount of time have no business giving dating advice. Let’s unpack Craig’s advice:

      1) only use paid sites.
      2) buy a minimum 6 month membership – nothing is going to happen in just 30 days.

      The leading dating sites and apps (aka the ones where the people are)are all free. OkCupid,Tinder, Hinge, Happn, Zoosk, POF – all free. Only Match and Eharmony charge, and EHarmony is rapidly declining in memberships because their communication process is too staggered.

      3) be yourself in your profile and post several candid photos including full body shots – no hats, sunglasses, or weird outfits. 4) have a friend of the opposite sex choose your photos and review your profile text. 5) don’t lie – put your true height, occupation, body type, and marital status, etc. 6) Contact at least 10 people a week (no winks). 7) Don’t get frustrated and grow a thick skin.

      Ground breaking. Nobody needs a wedding band to know any of this, though. This is all common knowledge.

      Online dating in 2008 in no way resembles online dating of 2015 thanks to apps and technology. This isn’t 2008, when most people were still accessing dating sites from their laptops and therefore their access to potential matches was far more limited. Smartphones and the explosion of apps have made online dating far more difficult because people have unlimited options to communicate and connect. The window to connect and engage people is smaller because the shopping cart mentality has intensified exponentially.

      And with all due respect, Craig, you were a guy in your late thirties and a lawyer and you still struggled to get women to date you long term. If I recall correctly, it took you close to 3 years of Match.com-ing before you met your wife.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 54

      Reply

      • maria Says:

        hmmm there is nothing wrong with dating for 3 years before meeting a spouse online. i have been dating on and of, with a few serious relationships for 5 years. even though you are right his advice might be a little limiting because he doesn’t online date anymore, its still nice to see that there are people who have had success online, and somebody who met their wife/husband online even if it was a few years ago probably has some advice worthy of sharing. I don’t think its very nice that you just brushed off his advice. It is much better than somebody who met their spouse in college 15 years ago trying to give people advice.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 50 Thumb down 2

        Reply

        • Julie Says:

          I didnt think 3 years was bad either.

          I know several married couples who met online too, but Moxie’s comment about online being a terrible place to look for anything serious was very insightful. The online dating site business model isnt intended to limit, narrow and focus your search which is what you need to do to find something serious. Instead, the goal is to bombard you with constant attention and stimulation and give you a false sense of limitless options unlike anything you can get offline.

          I did not find dating to be a numbers game. I must have gone on 1-4 online dates a week when I was dating which probably added up to hundreds of dates and only 2 guys made it past date #5.

          When it comes to relationships, fewer focused options are far better than a plethera of random options. According the the WSJ article, statistically your best bet is to try to meet your spouse through friends.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

          Reply

          • AC Says:

            “According the the WSJ article, statistically your best bet is to try to meet your spouse through friends.”

            I’ve heard this too. The question is who did they poll (age, demographic, etc.)

            More and more people are meeting online. I still agree that friends, coworkers, a family, etc are a better bet. At the same time, I think that approaching online dating with a tepid attitude is bad for business.

            Just have fun with it….

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

            Reply

            • Julie Says:

              Thats a good question. Seems like I just found the answer from the Pew Research Center in an article from 2014. “5% of Americans who are in a marriage or committed relationship say they met their significant other online. Even among Americans who have been with their spouse or partner for five years or less, fully 88% say that they met their partner offline–without the help of a dating site.”

              http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/02/13/5-facts-about-online-dating/

              I know its anecdotal, but after I went on those hundreds of dates some of which were not fun at all, only two made it to the point of exclusivity and none ever got serious. All of my serious relationships including my marriage resulted from men I met through work, a hobby or one through a speed dating event. I did gain a lot of valuable knowledge and experience from online dating and am still grateful for the fact that I wont ever find myself wondering what else is out and if I’m missing out.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

              Reply

      • HammersAndNails Says:

        3 years doesn’t seem excessive or negative to me. I would expect to spend at least an average of 2 years between serious relationships. It might take a while and you are going to have to send a lot of emails is pretty solid advice imho.

        “5) don’t lie – put your true height, occupation, body type, and marital status, etc. 6) Contact at least 10 people a week (no winks). ”

        is way better than your advice that “everyone lies, so go ahead” and telling men to kick back and wait for the ladies to start making the first move. While I agree that his suggestion to use paid sites seems a bit off in 2015, I think the spirit of his advice is pretty spot on.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 1

        Reply

        • ATWYSingle Says:

          Why would I encourage men to send out a bunch of messages when all any guy on this site ever complains about is how women never reply to their messages? Maybe you just like to complain?

          Sending out unsolicited emails is a waste for both men and women. It just is.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 26

          Reply

          • HammersAndNails Says:

            No it’s not. it inefficient, and frustrating, sure. Absolutely. But the alternative is worse. If you find the perfect girl after an hour of browsing profiles and send her a great opening and she doesn’t even read it, you are JUST as bummed as if you send every pretty good profile you come across in the hour a quick hello as well. If one of those quick hellos turns into something, great. If you just wait for a pretty girl a few years younger to visit your profile you will be waiting weeks between and going months between dates.

            If you are a guy with a bit to offer, the kinds of girls you are interested in are getting bombarded. It really does come down to the things you can’t control. You need to be in the right place at the right time. If she met a great guy at the bar the night before you sent your email, it really doesn’t even matter. It’s outside your control. It’s just timing. Your email doesn’t even register. Her notification is always lit up.

            No it’s not. Sending out “unsolicitited” (lol.. right… you put up a profile on a dating site and a guy sending you an email is “unsolicited”) is how you get dates.

            When I’m not actively trying to get new dates, I do what you are recommending, and I get roughly 1 date every 4 months that way. Is my response rate much higher? Sure. That being said, is it any less frustrating? no. and it doesn’t work. You didn’t have internet dating when you were 28 so you know less than Craig about how it is. Pretty 20-30 year old girls are busy enough just checking the inbox. They are not making the first move, because they don’t have to.

            If I send out a ton of emails I can get 1-2 dates a week with girls who look girlfriendably attractive, sound interesting, and have no obvious red flags. Do they like the same bands as I do, and have pictures doing my favorite hobbies like the snowflake unicorns that never write back? No. That’s ok.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 0

            Reply

            • ATWYSingle Says:

              Okay, but how many of those women end up being women you date for any significant amount of time? If all you want is a bunch of dates or flings, then send out a bunch of messages until something sticks. But if you want to actually develop something substantive , which the OP does, then my suggestion to select from people who initiate interest in some way first is more effective.

              The reason you don’t like my suggestion is because you don’t want to date the women who show interest first because you think you can do better when the reality is that you probably can’t. You and everybody else would rather stick it out for that “ideal” person that everybody else wants to respond.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 18

              Reply

              • HammersAndNails Says:

                Stop trying to make my story fit your narrative. If i send out a TON of mails, I *can* do better then the women who show interest first. That’s reality, and not a guess by someone who hasn’t lived it. People are not their profiles. Needing the profile to dazzle you is really going to make you miss a lot of people who might be great, and a dazzling profile is no indicator that a person is really going to be what you are looking for. I’ve been actively interested in having a relationship for only about the last year and a half good stretch of confirmed happy bachelorhood. In that stretch I’ve had two relationships past the 5 month mark, but decided it wasn’t a good enough fit for me.

                Once I get a date I do fine. No complaints. People I am interested in bailing on me is not a frequent issue. I mean it happens every now and again of course, but that’s all in the game.

                In the last year I’ve gotten exactly 1 mail on OKC from a girl I was excited about. Wait for women to initiate? Crazy talk.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 1

                Reply

                • Donnie K Says:

                  Game set match.

                  Moxie, you’re starting to sound like an angry talk show host whose narrative has been blown out of the water…similar to Mike Francesca’s prediction last Wednesday that the NFL would suspend Bill Belichick for the Super Bowl.

                  Is your argument logical? Yes.

                  At the same time you’ve neglected about a thousand variables.

                  For the love of God give it up already.

                  Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 2

                  Reply

          • Nicole Says:

            But isn’t there a middle ground between spamming out messages to every person on OKC and waiting for the other person to initiate contact?

            I mean, if everyone just waited for the other person to message first, no one would ever meet. And focusing on your visitors list is pretty limiting if you’re on a site where people can browse invisibly.

            What’s wrong with actually reading the profiles and sending “unsolicited” messages to people whose basic criteria (age, location, type of relationship sought) you fit? I think a lot of the guys who complain about sending thousands of messages with no results are contacting women who live far away, are twenty years younger, or haven’t logged on in weeks. I think H and N’s strategy of contacting women who he thinks might be interested but too busy to have seen his profile makes sense, and is probably less frustrating than staring at an empty mailbox all day.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 5

            Reply

            • ATWYSingle Says:

              I mean, if everyone just waited for the other person to message first, no one would ever meet

              Except, that’s not what I suggested, is it? It’s never been what I’ve suggested in the literally dozens of times I’ve written about this. I’ve explained what initiate contact means numerous times.

              I think a lot of the guys who complain about sending thousands of messages with no results are contacting women who live far away, are twenty years younger, or haven’t logged on in weeks.

              And again you’d be wrong. Remember, I don’t just read these letters and answer questions. I works with about 25-30 men and women a month ages 25-60 one on one, and literally all of them have the exact same complaint, and these are all reasonably attractive “normal” people going for people in their age range.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

              Reply

              • Yvonne Says:

                First off, online dating has been around for over 20 years. It got a boost in respectability when the film “You’ve Got Mail” was released in 1998. What did people use before that? Personal ads.

                I think Moxie is just suggesting that people focus on those who’ve looked at their profile first. If you see a profile that really interests you, you might start off by looking, and waiting to see if the other person looks at yours before writing. But if you really want to contact someone “cold”, go for it. Sending out “hundreds” of emails might not be the most effective strategy, though.

                I agree with Moxie’s assessment, although Craig does make some good points. As far as finding serious relationships go, I feel like online dating works best for people in their thirties who are really motivated about finding a partner to marry. Most people I know, of all ages, did not meet their partners that way. They met through friends, school, work, activities, very old school.

                I would add that the quality of photos taken with an android phone probably isn’t great. Having a couple of pro photos taken, or even a couple taken by a friend who has a good camera could be helpful, especially if you’re an average-looking person.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

                Reply

              • Nicole Says:

                Fair point, Moxie… I think a lot of us who had “success” online dating, however we define it, feel like what worked for us should work for everyone. But people should use whatever strategy works for them.

                Yvonne – “I think Moxie is just suggesting that people focus on those who’ve looked at their profile first.”

                Am I the only woman who hated looking at her “visitors” list? I only looked a couple of times and it was… Disturbing. Prompted me to immediately take down that one picture in a bikini top. Seventy year olds on Harley’s with a cigarette hanging from their mouth. College guys posing shirtless on their dorm beds. From skimming it, I didn’t see any good matches who had viewed my profile and not written or at least winked. I would think that for women, the visitors list is usually too long and random to be useful, but again that’s just my personal experience.

                Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2

                Reply

                • Julie Says:

                  I never really got the visitors list. A wink or a quick “hello” online is a cheap effort investment. The only reason I browsed someone but didnt bother to say hello was because while his profile picture captured my attention, the rest of the profile made me click “Next!” It used to creep me out a little when I’d get a note immediately after I browsed a profile I didnt like. I understand that not all women like to initiate, but I think the one’s who wont are becoming far and few between.

                  And I agree, the guys who appeared in my visitors list were extremely random and not in any way related to the type of guys I normally dated but so were the people who messaged me so who knows.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

                  Reply

            • HammersAndNails Says:

              No matter how carefully you select the people you are emailing it’s just how the simple math works out.

              Number of emails you get – Number of dates you possibly want to go on = The number of guys that have no realistic chance.

              If you get 5 emails a day and go do 2 new dates a week 96% of the guys that email aren’t getting a date. Who actually dates 2 new people every single week? Those weeks you aren’t dating new people, 100% of those emails are trash. Your two week average just rose to no dates for 98% of the men that email you.

              Are 98% of the men who email so undateable they should have known better? Are my numbers way off?

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

              Reply

            • Donnie K Says:

              Nicole,

              What you said about middle ground is so spot on that maybe you should start writing these columns.

              Sending dozens of cold messages to every hot babe within a 25-mike radius regardless of age – better yet, her age preference is a guaranteed recipe for failure.

              What Moxie and her minions fail to realize is this:

              So is sitting on your behind waiting for things to happen. Moxie and Yvonne aren’t men. They don’t know what it’s like to go through stretches were no one, and I mean no one we’d consider dating views our profile. Then there’s this:

              “Am I the only woman who hated looking at her “visitors” list? I only looked a couple of times and it was… Disturbing”

              This speaks volumes about what women go through online.

              Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2

              Reply

              • ATWYSingle Says:

                Oh my God. Yes, it’s just men who struggle to get views and messages and replies. Have you ever tried dating as a woman over 40? It’s the same thing as what men in their 20’s deal with. And yet, I still manage to get guys to date me – guys I’m attracted to and that I like and enjoy. And they’re all guys who showed interest FIRST. Yes, I can and have gotten plenty of dates from men I contacted first, but the only guys that I’ve dated more than a handful of times and that have stuck around are men that have initiated some kind of contact.

                The amount of whining from some of you along with the obnoxiously obtuse questions from people who don’t even date online or who dated online for all of a few months is ridiculous.

                Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 21

                Reply

                • Donnie K Says:

                  The problem is that suggesting guys stop initiating contact with women is tantamount to saying:

                  Sit on your ass and wait for opportunities to come to you.

                  I hate to say it but “shut up and stop whining” might resonate more with some dudes.

                  Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

                  Reply

                  • LostSailor Says:

                    Except that’s not what Moxie is saying. Quite the opposite. Men definitely need to initiate contact, but your odds are improved if you start with women who have at least looked at your profile, “liked” it, or otherwise showed a modicum of interest.

                    If a man is going to try to play the numbers and send out a lot of “cold” messages, the only way to avoid the frustration inherent in that approach is to be completely uninvested in the outcome, which is difficult for most guys to do.

                    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

                    Reply

                • HammersAndNails Says:

                  “And they’re all guys who showed interest FIRST.”

                  sooo… I guess we agree now.

                  Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

                  Reply

                  • ATWYSingle Says:

                    I never said don’t initiate contact at all. I was very clear that people should use this option *sparingly* instead of mass mailing a dozen or so matches every week.

                    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

                    Reply

                    • HammersAndNails Says:

                      A dozen or so is a good start. The point of sending out a ton is to make sure you at least get a date. If you send out half a dozen it’s very very possible to get 0 dates. If you send out twenty, it pretty much has to turn into a date two or you need to rethink your approach.

                      Sending out less emails doesn’t avoid frustration nearly as much as actually getting a date with a girl with some potential.

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

              • Yvonne Says:

                To each his own, but I really like the “Visitors”, or “Who’s Viewed Me” options. Sure, many of the men might not be guys I’d go out with, but some would be, and some of them would be men I wouldn’t have seen in my own searches.

                I also never said that men shouldn’t initiate contact. Men are always going to initiate more than women. The suggestion is to see if there is even the most basic interest before contacting, but there is nothing wrong with cold contacting within reason.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

                Reply

                • Yvonne Says:

                  Also, the strategy of looking at a man’s profile and then his looking at mine, sometimes a few times, usually did result in his contacting me.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

                  Reply

      • The D-man Says:

        Doesn’t OkCupid have a paid option too?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • LostSailor Says:

          Yes. I use it. It’s pretty cheap and offers some benefits, but isn’t as major investment as Match or EH.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          Reply

          • AC Says:

            It’s pretty cheap and offers some benefits, but isn’t as major investment as Match or EH.

            I’ve never used EH but I know it costs less than half matches 6-month option.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

            Reply

  4. Noquay Says:

    Craig puts it well; on line works best for the median, that is , white or white looking, average incomes, education level, height, weights, occupations. Anyone outside these norms are gonna have to work even harder. As a Native chick, I’ve had many “no coloreds need apply” or dudes who don’t give a rats who you are, they’re just looking for exotic arm candy. One dude even flew across country because I looked like his dead Cree wife. I would not rely completely on on line as you are in a populated place, there’s got to be age appropriate meetup groups, public stuff like festivals, art openings, if you’re active, running races, you can volunteer at these if you’re not really active. To check out new dating sites (match seems to be best in terms of quality), write a profile, keep it hidden, this allows you to see who’s out there, see if the site is worth paying for, some are, some aren’t. Free sites, as mentioned earlier tend to get more desperate folk

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

    Reply

  5. Fyodor Says:

    I think that his height is definitely hurting him. People in LA are tall and I think that people are generally more free indulging their pickiness in markets that are favorable to them (men in their late 30s and women in their early 20s).

    I’d suggest that he focus more of his energy on non-online venues. Because height is something that can easily be filtered for it tends to take on outsized* relevance in online dating. You might do better in person where you could show off your personality, etc.

    *See what I did there.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  6. Alex Says:

    Wow, race and dating is a major topic onto itself. Let’s just say it’s best to fish in ponds where you have had some success.

    People are attracted to types in general, but it’s part of the screen out process which is part of life. Some people just won’t float everyone’s boat.

    Having said that, in diverse cities like a NYC or LA, people generally are more amenable dating outside their lines….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • bbdawg Says:

      True, but LA is very specific and quite segregated if you ask me, I am latin myself, (Brazilian) “pass” for Latin/Italian/Middle-Eastern and I feel a bit off in LA. People just don’t mix as much as New York. There is a specific look people want there, it’s not as diverse as NYC.

      I’d say to the OP, look for people within your community both off and online, and then expand from there, you have no way of knowing if the caucasian women you are contacting will be open to dating you. That’s something to consider, it really is, especially if you’re not tall. Latin women are more open to dating shorter men simply because we grew up with men who are much shorter than the average white or black guy when it comes to height. It’s normal to us, you won’t be ostracized. (This would probably also apply to asian women, since most asian men aren’t tall either).

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

      Reply

  7. Donnie K Says:

    I agree with the majority of the advice here. Nevertheless, there are two suggestions that are backed up by legitimate points that need to be put into perspective:

    “….if your explicit and sole goal is to find a serious long-term relationship, then avoid online dating all together.”

    It’s true that most sites are not designed to find their clients everlasting love. In fact, I think they set people up to fail in this department. The problem is people are so busy these days that relying on traditional means (bars, friends of friends) is becoming less of an option for anyone over the age of 35. Until an offline opportunity presents itself, most singles have to rely on online dating if they’re hoping to find a relationship. After all, their choices are to:

    a)Keep trying and realize disappointment is part of the process, or
    b) Chain themselves to limiting strategies and beliefs.

    Speaking of:

    “I would drastically cut back on sending out a bunch of messages to random people. That is THE leading cause of frustration amongst online daters. Just..stop doing that. It’s an absolute waste of time. You don’t have to stop messaging people who don’t initiate contact completely, but you should use this option sparingly.”

    Here’s the truth. The response rate from women who view your profile is higher than those you cold call. The problem with strictly adhere to this strategy is this:

    It’s reactive.

    While hundreds of no replies might lead to hurt feelings, sitting on your ass waiting for women to view your profile won’t help matters either.Why? Because if you sit around waiting for women you’re interested in to view your profile, you could be waiting around a long, long time.

    Any man who’s been on okcupid knows that it’s possible to go long periods of time with no desirable views. It’s possible to go weeks where we get likes (totally useless as mentioned) and views from women we would never date (for various reasons, not just looks) or have profiles not worth replying to – the ones with 0-2 photos and no text. I’d just assume email a woman cold than someone who viewed my profile but is either hiding something or not invested enough to put a few photos and some text. Talk about setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Online dating can be frustrating. I empathize with the OP in that regard. That said, he should keep plugging away.

    And yes….drop the whole trying to be witty and funny shtick. It makes it look like you’re trying too hard.

    Otherwise, this is all part of the process.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

    Reply

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      While hundreds of no replies might lead to hurt feelings, sitting on your ass waiting for women to view your profile won’t help matters either.

      Here’s the thing: if you’re a person with commonly sought out attributes or have those attributes listed on your profile, and you have a really good primary photo and you don’t have three eyes, then the views should come fairly easily. I will bet that most of the men whining (rather endlessly, I might add) about how nobody views them or messages them have done a fabulously poor job at setting up their profile. Especially when it comes to selecting a primary photo. If I see a primary photo of a guy in sunglasses, or wearing a hat, or taken at a distance, or holding a cell phone to take a pic, or with a group of people, or taken from some weird angle..I don’t bother looking at them. I also won’t click if their username is BOB_TACO or LOOKINGFORSOULMATE or FRANKIEG239 OR something equally boorish or stupid.

      This comprises a spectacularly large segment of profiles.

      It simply isn’t hard to get people to view your profile if you present yourself well. You don’t have to be a stud. You just shouldn’t look like a creep.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 9

      Reply

      • Donnie K Says:

        “Here’s the thing: if you’re a person with commonly sought out attributes or have those attributes listed on your profile, and you have a really good primary photo and you don’t have three eyes, then the views should come fairly easily.”

        This is why I say take the “only contact women who view you” advice with a grain of salt. I’ve seen those awful photos so I don’t doubt that.

        I will say this: My primary photo is arguably my best one. There’s no doubt about it. Some of my other ones -lets just say the only criticism I’ve heard is too many have been taken in a bar.

        I kid you not when I say that there have been stretches where the views are few and far between and the ones I get are those profiles you rightfully suggest to avoid.

        Unless okcupid’s changing up photos again (like they’ve admitted to in the past) I have no logical explanation for this.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

        Reply

      • Nicole Says:

        I think you might be overestimating the amount of searching and viewing profiles most women do. You do lots of it, because keeping up with trends in online dating is part of your job. And I know your female clients are on there searching, but that’s because they’re struggling, if dating were easy for them they probably wouldn’t be your clients.

        I maybe did a search on OKC once a week. Most of my female friends did even less. You get email notifications of messages and can go directly to the guy’s message and profile, decide if you want to reply. That’s all a lot of women do in their online dating search.

        So it doesn’t surprise me that perfectly great guys don’t get a lot of views or contacts. There are lots of women online who are passive because they can be – they’re getting messages and dates without doing any work. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t be interested in meeting – it’s just that guys have to be proactive to get their attention.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1

        Reply

        • ATWYSingle Says:

          There are lots of women online who are passive because they can be

          Yes, and there are plenty of others who aren’t. Unlike you, who seems to think her small circle of gal pals is great statistical data, I’ve been working with people FOR YEARS and I’d say 75% of my female clients in their 20’s all do regular searches.

          I’m endlessly fascinated how you can have so many opinions on every single post on this site and return here multiple times a day every day and yet you don’t seem to have any substantive first hand experience with anything being discussed. Honestly, I have to ask why you’re so invested in literally every post on this site? Aren’t you the one with a boyfriend? Why are you here? What do you get out of it other than some head pats from whiny guys?

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 33

          Reply

          • Shadowcat Says:

            I see your point Moxie, but I think your results might be a bit skewed because the 75% of your female clients in their 20’s are also more proactive in general, the evidence being that they are seeking your services. The women that aren’t checking men’s profiles exist, but you don’t meet them because they aren’t taking their online dating career seriously enough to hire a dating coach.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0

            Reply

            • Joey Giraud Says:

              Don’t assume that asking for professional help means having a problem. All kinds of people buy professional services just to be sure.

              In New York, even more so. There, the only people who don’t have a shrink are the insane ones.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

              Reply

          • Nicole Says:

            Moxie,

            I come here for the same reason I read Dear Prudie and Dan Savage and Dr. Nerdlove… Advice columns are my not so secret guilty pleasure. And I’m a total psych nerd. I just find people and their motivations fascinating.

            And yes I am in a (mindblowingly awesome) relationship. But I didn’t trade my brain for a boyfriend. I’m not sure why it bothers you when people who are in serious relationships comment. We’re honest about who we are (well, ok, the purple hair is a cosplay wig ;) ) so readers can discount our opinions if they think we’re cluelessly out of date in our advice.

            I don’t claim to speak from anything but personal experience, but I’m a pretty ordinary person, so I figure my point of view represents some subsection of women.

            But it’s your blog, if you don’t want comments from anyone who is out of the dating market that’s your prerogative.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 5

            Reply

            • Joey Giraud Says:

              “And yes I am in a (mindblowingly awesome) relationship. ”

              Dr Phil, Oprah, and Tony Robbins all rolled up into one.

              How tedious you must be.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 9

              Reply

      • Noquay Says:

        Would agree here Moxie. Have been looking on two sites, Match and Our Time (am in my 50’s), deciding if there are enough quality guys to make it worth paying a sub (Match yes, Our Time, definitely not). Yep, a veritable compendium of blurred selfies, bizarre accumulations of facial hair, scowling. Most profiles have zero sentence structure, capitalization at appropriate places, punctuation, and are chock full of long winded bragging about an amount of travel totally inconsistent with their income and occupations. About 1 out of 40-50 guys have photos and profiles that warrant contact. Sorry guys, but you too need quality, good, flattering photos, and a well crafted, well written profile.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • Joey Giraud Says:

          It’s like they think the way to project confidence is to seem like they just don’t give a rip.

          Thanks, I feel better already.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

          Reply

    • bbdawg Says:

      I used to check out most of my visitors’ profiles, even if and especially if they weren’t what I was looking for. you can usually tell just by the photo. Or sometimes you’d see a cute guy who was “not looking for anything serious right now”. In which case I’d “hide” that profile too.

      This gave me more information about what I was really interested in and I’d always “hide” the creepy visitors (shirtless, far away location, etc…) or anyone I didn’t like. I began to see the clear pattern of incompatibility (a below 70% match meant that they were after casual or open relationships or were into drugs). Which was actually quite helpful, you learn to “read” quickly and to not waste your time with people who weren’t serious in some way or another. Overall it was helpful to see who went to my profile. And I used to look at matches, mostly to see who the attractive/interesting men were. I would bookmark them just in case but never really wrote to anyone.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      Reply

  8. BigCityLife Says:

    I just went and read this guy’s profile on OKC. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to find him based on all the context clues in his letter. First of all the profile comes across like you are looking for “fans” rather than a date. Your profile talks all about your company (links included in the profile) and has a lot of name dropping. No one cares about what you are doing while you are “chillaxin” on the weekend. Secondly drop the photos with the old drunk girls. This makes you look like you are only out looking for a party girl. This sounds petty but educated college girls want guys who can write in complete sentences with proper punctuation and spelling. What do you do when you aren’t partying on the club scene? What activities would you like to share with this potential LTR? You have a picture of a grandma, is she your grandma? Do you have good family relationships? Women looking for LTR generally like men who have a good family dynamic. Why not play up that angle if it is applicable to you? I could go on and on, but I think I can say in my opinion is that your profile is turning off the majority of women.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

    Reply

  9. Lucy Says:

    To me an online dating strategy is to not spend too much time on the site…’cause I mean if I do, I just go mad. If I spend too long thinking about dating, I get overly nervous about it.

    To get towards having a date quickly.

    To not initiate contact.

    And another one is to not speak to/go on any dates with too many guys at a time. This just works for me. If I’m looking for something serious, I want to give someone a fair chance and enough of my attention.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  10. LostSailor Says:

    Moxie’s advice is usually pretty good, and I agree with it in this case. A profile review is also probably a good idea. LA sounds like a tough dating market, so any advantage you can bring is needed.

    Perhaps the only advice I can add is to just relax about it all. If you’re frustrated by the process, take a break. Start a new hobby or project. The more one obsesses over dating success or lack of it, the worse it’s going to get.

    One thing did stick out to me: My pics are taken with my Android phone in good lighting. It sounds like these are selfies, and if so, then you absolutely should change your photos. They don’t necessarily have to be professional; if you can enlist a friend to take some photos in settings you like (park, beach, sporting event, whatever) with a real camera, not a phone, you’ll be better off. You don’t have to have many of them, even just two or three would suffice.

    But perhaps the best advice would be to get the hell out of LA. Definitely not my favorite city…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

    Reply

  11. Paul Says:

    I can speak on the race thing.

    I’m a visible minority (parents from India) but I was born and raised in Canada (where I live). I am not an ‘indian’ guy culturally, I don’t have much of it to me, yet when I am looked at by photos I feel like I get the stigma of being an Indian guy. Heck, I can’t even handle spicy food well!

    It’s frustrating as I’m more rock and roll than r&b, to generalize, and I tend not to draw my ‘type’ to me via photos…and even in person I feel like I have to fight the generalizations that can come with appearance.

    I’m used to it in person, online…maybe it’s my paranoia but I feel like my type isn’t giving me a shot based on something I can’t control.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  12. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “Message people who show initiative first”

    Not sure why this generated so much controversy. Maybe it’s the word “initiative” that throws people.

    I’d rather hang myself then craft clever messages to random women on no basis other than I hope they find me attractive. Even professional cold calling salespeople don’t invest that much in each individual call. It’s not about “burn out.” It’s about efficient use of resources – namely, time.

    My strategy has always been to target my emailing to those women who’ve done SOMETHING to demonstrate some possible interest. Usually, that means they viewed my profile. Sometimes it means they flirt/wink, etc. Sometimes they go so far as email. If they do any of those things and I find them interesting, then I will send a brief email basically saying “hello.” Boom.

    Now, in order to generate “interest” I will sometimes do broad searches and openly view the women I find attractive (i.e. I set my profile settings so that they can tell I viewed them). Sometimes, this will induce them to view me back, wink, email etc. And, then I will contact them. To me, this is akin to smiling at someone at a bar and they smile back. Then you approach.

    People will say well, if someone views me and doesn’t contact me, then I assume they are not interested and therefore I do nothing. To those people, I say, do you, player! But, you will likely never date me.

    And, to answer the begging question, yes, I’m hot. But old.

    Look around you. There are entire successful dating sites now that rely on this model: to name two, TINDER and HINGE. If you use those, you’re already using my strategy. The difference is that those two sites don’t allow you to communicate with anyone who doesn’t “show initiative.”

    I haven’t looked out the window yet to check but they told me I’m buried in like 3 feet of snow in NYC so figured I’d stay home today and comment relentlessly. You’ve been warned.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    Reply

  13. D. Says:

    Ok, so, you want a relationship, and you’re using online dating towards that end. You need to understand a few things.

    First, Moxie is absolutely right in that online dating is not set up to help you achieve that goal. For the people who run online dating sites, a happy couple = two dead revenue streams who are no longer paying membership fees or viewing ads. Online dating is structured to provide you with a massive number of possible matches, which — as Moxie points out — subtly encourages the notion that you should hold out for something better, since that means you’ll keep paying/viewing the ads. So, from the outset, the system is designed to keep you looking, rather than paired off and off the site.

    Second, online dating — as a means of finding someone with whom you can actually develop a long-term relationship — is no better, and probably a bit worse, than any number of other mechanisms. Meeting through friends, activity groups, at a bar, in the check-out-line at the supermarket, it’s really just as good as any of those at finding you someone. You can search for as finely-tuned a set of “must haves” and filter out as many “dealbreakers” as you want, and you’ll still only have someone who’s “good on paper.” In person, it may — and in most cases probably will — be a completely different story. Oh, you’ll get along well enough, but it won’t turn into something serious.

    Why? Simple. Most of the people you ever meet in dating do not end up as a serious, long-term relationship. Instead, the vast bulk of people you meet — meet, mind you — will last anywhere from 1-4 dates. You will get no response from, or will fizzle-out somewhere in the initial communications phase, with even more people. The bottom line is simple: it is really, really hard under any circumstances to find a serious, long-term relationship. Online dating doesn’t change or improve your chances in that regard.

    What online dating can do — and what you can use it for to your advantage — is make it easier to meet people who are also generally looking to meet people. And that’s about all it can do. Online dating is a tool, with a fairly specific purpose, and people assume it can do more than that at their peril. The only outcome that online dating can reasonably be expected to produce — and even that isn’t a given — is an in-person meeting. It won’t deliver you a girlfriend. You need to understand this if you’re going to still pursue finding one while using online dating. You need to internalize that, in most cases, you will fail to attain your goal of finding a girlfriend.

    In fact, I would even advise that you abandon that as a goal at all. You see, trying to find a girlfriend — online or otherwise — will likely lead you to do several really counter-productive things, like:

    – Placing too much importance on mildly positive or even just neutral signs as indications of genuine interest.

    – Becoming emotionally invested in someone (or rather, the idea of a future with someone) way too early in the process, and subsequently feeling deeply disappointed when that falls apart.

    – Coming across as too intense, or as if you’re “wife-hunting.” This is bad because it can make the woman feel as if you aren’t really interested in her as much as you are interested in finding someone. If you’re ever on the receiving end of this, you’ll know how off-putting it is.

    – Ignoring other red flags because you’re too focused on the positive, and how rosy your future is going to be with this person.

    Instead of setting a goal of “finding a girlfriend,” I’d set a goal of “finding a date and having a good time.” You can still keep “girlfriend” as a kind of farther-off ideal scenario, but recognize it as unlikely to happen and make peace with that fact. Enjoy dating for the experience of dating itself. That, in turn, will make you more upbeat and positive, less likely to give off a creepy “wife-hunting” vibe (not saying you do now, but you might be), and generally be more successful in dating and more attractive. And ultimately, that’s the best you can do if you want something serious. Even then, if you make yourself absolutely irresistible (which nobody is universally), you still have to find someone you click with. But at least by being in a really positive frame of mind, you’re better prepared if and when that person crosses your path.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0

    Reply

  14. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    Meeting through friends, activity groups, at a bar, in the check-out-line at the supermarket, it’s really just as good as any of those at finding you someone.

    THIS. This is 100% true. Except for the fact that most of those people (at the check-out line, for example) are married or otherwise unavailable, dull, hideously ugly, and, most likely of all, not remotely interested in talking to you, let alone dating you.

    Oh, so by “true,” I guess I meant “not true.”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

    Reply

    • HammersAndNails Says:

      Seriously?

      You can’t get a date at a bar, ZOG sports, or meetup? Your issues may not be about the venue.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

      Reply

      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Good one!

        Online dating is by far the most efficient means available to meet actual available people and get dates. Not sure how anyone can deny that. People are just doing it wrong.

        But you’re right. I totally forgot about Zog. That works too!

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • Julie Says:

          If online dating is such a great way to meet available people then why proportionally are there so many more people online dating then there are people ending up in marriages that started as online dates.

          Some venues are just more conducive for meeting people with long term potential then others. I’m sure we all know somoone who met their SO in a bar, but I would not recommend you spend the next 2 years hanging out at a pub waiting for the Future Ms.DMN to show up.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6

          Reply

          • HammersAndNails Says:

            That always seemed such a weird piece of “conventional wisdom” I’d never marry a girl who didn’t enjoy hanging out at the pub, soooo….

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

            Reply

    • D. Says:

      My point is more to dispel the notion that online dating is more likely to find this guy a girlfriend. It isn’t.

      Many people use online dating on the theory that by doing so, they’ll find themselves a boyfriend or girlfriend. They think it gives them a level of control over actually making that happen. They invest a lot of time and energy into using online dating for this purpose, and feel frustrated and let down when that ends up not happening. They don’t understand that online dating is a tool for meeting people. Full stop. It’s not the Relationship Store. The only thing it’s perhaps more likely to do is provide people who are not married or otherwise romantically involved (although even that’s not 100% guaranteed). Past that, it’s a total crapshoot, and no better at providing a serious relationship than any other random encounter.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 7

      Reply

      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        It’s a crapshoot if you treat it like one. Isn’t that the problem? If you use a more balanced, targeted approach, it’s much more like poker than craps. No guarantee, but you could improve your chances by using a sensible strategy, rather than throwing up your hands and saying “bad luck,” “online sucks” where else can I go to meet friends my age?

        Sure, there are other ways but online dating sites are where many if not most single people congregate. So, yeah, you’re more likely to find single people (and ultimately a relationship) there than on a supermarket line.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • D. Says:

          Assuming you can get a date from someone in the supermarket line, or through an introduction by your friends, or at a bar, or wherever else, I’d say it’s about as reliable a predictor of “this will turn into a relationship” as online dating. Which is to say…it isn’t really reliable at all. I expect just about everyone who has used online dating for a little while will have had at least one (and probably more than one) experience of meeting someone who was only “perfect on paper.” That said, it’s a lot better than those other methods at meeting someone who’s presumably single and interested in dating. But that’s not a serious relationship, which is what the OP said he was looking for.

          I think a lot of people use online dating as a kind of silver bullet for finding a relationship, which I’m saying is a mistake. They expect the fact that they’re using a website with matching formulae, where people post lots of information about themselves, where you can filter your searches with varying levels of fine detail, will somehow find them a relationship. I’m saying that’s a mistake, and using online dating that way is a lot more likely to lead to burnout than just using it as a tool to find a date.

          That said, I’m not suggesting abandoning online dating altogether. Likewise, I’m not suggesting that people should just date anyone and everyone with whom they can get a date. Obviously, you should focus your efforts on looking for people with whom you think you might maybe want a relationship (rather than the people you’re damn sure you don’t want one with), but you’ve got to adjust your expectations about the outcomes, and you can’t get discouraged about online dating because the person you thought was perfect turned out to only be “perfect on paper.”

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

          Reply

          • DrivingMeNutes Says:

            If the thesis is:

            You are no more likely to form a lasting relationship with someone you met online than you are with a person you met in a supermarket

            then I mostly agree with that. At least, I have no evidence to the contrary.

            That said, arguably, online/dating apps provide some useful “compatibility” information that may not be readily available in real life meetings that could, in theory, help people avoid investing in people that would otherwise be nonstarters. On the other hand, compatibility information probably gets in some people’s way, and of course, people lie.

            I would be interested to see a study on that except I’m not.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

            Reply

            • D. Says:

              If the thesis is:

              You are no more likely to form a lasting relationship with someone you met online than you are with a person you met in a supermarket

              then I mostly agree with that. At least, I have no evidence to the contrary.

              Exactly. That’s my point re: the one vs. the other. I totally agree that online is way better for just meeting people. All I’m saying is that it’s not more likely to lead anywhere past that than is meeting someone offline.

              That said, arguably, online/dating apps provide some useful “compatibility” information that may not be readily available in real life meetings that could, in theory, help people avoid investing in people that would otherwise be nonstarters. On the other hand, compatibility information probably gets in some people’s way, and of course, people lie.

              Yeah, that stuff can be a problem if people get fixated on things like “But I’m 90% compatible! Why didn’t it work?!” The info isn’t a guarantee of positive outcomes. I think it’s more useful in terms of ruling out people with whom you’re incompatible, without having to chat them up/buy them a drink/whatever.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

              Reply

      • bbdawg Says:

        Online just puts you in front of more people, and it does help A LOT. Especially for females who aren’t drinkers, serious extroverts and/or have very social jobs. Nothing compares to online for a woman, and this has been a wonderful bonus.

        With all the issues that online has this is virtually the first time in history women have as many options, or more options than men without having to expose ourselves at bars or random social events. It used to be that men just had to pursue women and if women weren’t out all the time, it used to be much harder to meet men. I only wish it were around like 10 years ago

        I disagree that it doesn’t lead to relationships. I know tons of people who met that way and I have met people I am dating that way too. It’s not going away. Online forces you to be selective if you want a relationship and to really have clear boundaries, just because you are constantly hit by stuff you don’t want with the open sites… (hookup dudes who can’t spell, mostly). Many men online act like the can ask for anything with nothing to offer in return, when the numbers of women who are open to low-ball offers are quite small.

        I agree with Driving that we are seeing the success of Tinder where that is eliminated quickly and that mutual selection is where this is going. It works. Yeah there will be a ton of men whining that they won’t get matches and men blatantly lying about their age to get younger women, but that goes with the online territory. The “endless options” myth goes away pretty quickly when you realize how hard it is to connect with in person with someone. Getting dates is very easy, finding a connection just doesn’t happen that often. Once you find that connection you are likely to try it out at least for a while.

        I feel like we are seeing a sort of boomerang effect with online dating, it went from being super saturated and anything-goes to solving that problem by making it mutually selective again and shutting off the endless stream messages from unwanted folks.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

        Reply

        • D. Says:

          I disagree that it doesn’t lead to relationships. I know tons of people who met that way and I have met people I am dating that way too.

          I actually didn’t say that online dating doesn’t lead to relationships. It does, obviously. I know plenty of people who’ve met (and a few who married) that way. What I said was that online dating isn’t all that much better at leading to relationships than offline dating.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6

          Reply

        • AC Says:

          “I agree with Driving that we are seeing the success of Tinder where that is eliminated quickly and that mutual selection is where this is going.”

          I agree with everything except this. The problem with Tinder is that it doesn’t give the selector anything. Yes, it’s mutual but at the same time, the flake-out factor is off the charts. Say what you want about march and okcupid but both have got it right for the most part.

          And yes, online dating isn’t going anywhere so either play the game or go home.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

          Reply

    • maria Says:

      i have a permanent scowl/resting bitch face when I am on a line that stretches around the store. But, i was in fairway the other day and an older dude started chatting up this younger, attractive girl on that impossibly long line and they exchanged numbers so I guess its not impossible!

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

      Reply

  15. AC Says:

    I know I’m a little late to the party in terms of this cold calling debate but I’m share what I’ve observed. When I was on match.com, the views came readily and my success rate was much higher with women who viewed me vs. women who didn’t. On top of that, I received winks and actual emails that produced reasonable leads (women I was interested in meeting). On okcupid, my views are sporadic. I may get 2-3 per week, most of which are women I’m not interested in. Their “like” feature is becoming more and more useless ( as recently as last year, I found it to be much more reliable than it is now- blame Tinder for that.) I can also count on one hand the amount of emails I received from women – real emails, not “Hi” (men find these as annoying as well). Still, I’ve been able to get dates using a combination of the two approaches. I attribute this to two factors:

    1)Where I live – Hoboken. Great town but I can count one one hand the number of okcupid dates I’ve been on with women who live in Jersey. 85-90% have been NYC women.I’m not badmouthing NYC women but have to admit that I’d prefer to date on this side of the river given the choice.

    2) Okcupids search engine – it’s impossible to search by city or state and I trust their algorithms as much as I trust the practice of voodoo.

    I think that because it’s easy to miss promising leads (profiles being buried not not coming up). Add that to the fact that women may not be viewing or looking at their view list (see Nicole’s comments), it’s safe to say that if you’re not getting the views, the only other approach is to start cold calling.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • HammersAndNails Says:

      lol.. you are seriously going to be annoyed if a hot women who doesn’t seem terrible says “hi”? Seriously? That’s for insecure chicks man.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

      Reply

      • AC Says:

        “lol.. you are seriously going to be annoyed if a hot women who doesn’t seem terrible says “hi”? Seriously?”

        Haha…of course not. After all, hot trumps a lot (age, distance, and lame intro’s).

        My experience is that even with the hotties, “Hi” is only used by insecure chicks and time wasters.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

        Reply

  16. Craig Says:

    Wow – I didn’t expect my little piece of wisdom would result in so much debate. I’m a long-time poster on Moxie’s blog and am probably one of the few here who have actually met her in person. I would have thought that earned me some credibility – but I guess not. Do I know what I’m talking about when it comes to online dating? I guess that’s open to debate.

    Yes, it took me a couple of years to find my significant other online – and I’m being called out on it by people who’ve been doing it without yet finding one for much longer than that. Hopefully you can all appreciate the irony. By all means, don’t listen to me if you think your way is best. All I’ll say to those in opposition to my advice is this: check the scoreboard.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3

    Reply

    • Snowflake Says:

      It was good debate. However you have to admit online dating is not what it was 7 years ago or even pre-Tinder(online dating apps).

      Like ANY business model, businesses have to adapt to changing trends, new technology, economy etc and dating is one of them. What worked 7 years ago will not work today or like i mentioned 2011 forwards. You can check the scoreboard yourself but if you were to utilize the mindset you used then in 2005 to 2008, now in 2015 … you would speak differently. Even you have to admit, that’s about 10 years ago, no?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

      Reply

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Craig, your advice was met with disdain from me because you prefaced it with the fact that you met your wife on Match and therefore earned a level of authority then proceeded to dispense advice that is cliched and out dated.

      Not only has online dating drastically changed in the 8 years since you used it, but the dating landscape as a whole has been turned upside down. When you were dating online, marriage was more of a goal than it is now. When you were using online dating, there was still a stigma attached to it and there were maybe 2 sites people could use. The economic downturn, changing gender roles, technology…all of these things critically impacted the online dating experience.

      Your advice was simplistic and demonstrated your lack of knowledge of the online dating scene, hence why I scoffed at it.

      I don’t have an issue with people in happy relationships regularly commenting here. I give the side eye to people in relationships who seem weirdly invested in topics that in no way impact their lives.

      You’re a newlywed and you hang here spewing data and linking to studies? Why the hell do you care so much?

      Oh, dating advice columns are your “guilty pleasure?” Why? Because you like squatting in threads concern trolling people all day and pandering for up-votes? Okay.

      Most of it is just condescending nonsense. Those people aren’t here to help or contribute. They’re here to feign superiority.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 12

      Reply

  17. Craig Says:

    I don’t have an issue with people in happy relationships regularly commenting here. I give the side eye to people in relationships who seem weirdly invested in topics that in no way impact their lives.

    You’re a newlywed and you hang here spewing data and linking to studies? Why the hell do you care so much? – Moxie

    Thank you for your comment. I participate on your blog because it’s what you do for a living, we go back a long way, and I consider you a friend. I’m not personally invested in most of the topics discussed here – but I am invested in you by supporting your business via participating here on occasion. It’s not like I post here daily anymore.

    Lastly, I don’t post here to feign superiority – I simply share what my experiences were and what worked for me in the hopes my insight can be of use. People are free to disregard my advice if they don’t find it helpful. But it appears that the vast majority here found it helpful. I don’t claim to be an authority on anything. But if what they have been doing has not worked, why no try something else? They’ve got nothing to lose by trying some of my tips no matter how outdated my advice may be. That’s all I’m saying. You all know the quote about the definition of insanity.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0

    Reply

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      The newlywed reference was not directed at you. It was directed at C/Julie/Whatever username she’s using now.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8

      Reply

      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        I don’t post here to feign superiority, I post to reign superiorily.

        Surely there must be some evidence of this supposed meeting between Moxie and Craig. A trophy of some kind? A pair of skivvies perhaps?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6

        Reply

        • Craig Says:

          @DrivingMeNutes – it’s not like that. It’s purely platonic. I’ve seen her in person a couple of times – I did some legal work for her years ago. And I attended one of her singles events (with my wife – just to stop in to say hi and support the event). Lastly, I referred my brother to her events (and he secretly went to one without telling me – I found out from her when she recognized the same last name).

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          Reply

Leave a Reply to Craig

© 2013-2017 And That's Why You're Single All Rights Reserved