How Many Dates ‘Til She Starts To Pay?

I’ve been dating this guy for the past 3 weeks.  He seems sweet and shy.  When we are moneyfirstdatetogether we have a great time and are able to hold great conversations.  The chemistry seems to be there as he makes suggestions to hold my hand when we are walking around during our dates and the kissing just gives me the butterflies in my stomach.  However….two main issues have been a bit troublesome for me.  After our 1st date he suggested we take turns paying for our dates.  That was a big WOW for me.  I am a very giving person  and tend to help out on paying for dates but after 3 or 4 dates have passed.  Well, long story short I agreed to it.  Especially since he spoke with me about his past dates taking advantage of him financially and his last girlfriend was dependent on him financially.  He basically paid her personal bills.  This is new for me but it seems taking turns paying for our outings has eased him.  The bigger issue for me is that he is dating other women, including me.  I know that we are not exclusive but…  I have been use to the one on one dating routine I have had with other men.  I have been use to that if it doesn’t work out well then we can cut our losses and move on to dating others and end things.  I had this conversation with him and he states that he prefers to date me and openly date other women because we are not yet exclusive.  He states when we are then the situation will be one on one.   Am I conservative in my thinking or is it far fetched now a days to expect a guy to do the one on one dating and not date other women until we figure out what can happen between us? – Annabelle, NYC  – 38

This is new for me but it seems taking turns paying for our outings has eased him.  The bigger issue for me is that he is dating other women, including me.

So, he’s choosing not to spend money on you until you and he are exclusive? Hmmm. That sounds eerily familiar. Where have I heard that before? Oh. Right. From 75% of the women who have written in saying they won’t have sex with a guy until they are exclusive. Now you know how men feel. It’s all feels very quid pro quo, doesn’t it? That’s dating in this city and many others. The man is keeping his options open and refusing to spend too much money on any woman until he decides that he’s ready to be exclusive. What’s funny is that when a man does this, a woman dubs him “cheap.” But when a woman holds off on having sex with a man until she gets exclusivity or a promise of something more, she’s considered “prudent.”

Yes, I think you’re being conservative in your thinking. I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but I can assure you that some if not all of those men you thought were engaging in a “one on one” dating situation weren’t. They just didn’t make the mistake of telling you that. Or they were smart and, if you asked, lied. Just like a woman should skirt the truth if a man asks her the same question. Bottom line is that neither parties want to know.

No guy wants to know that he’s paying for meals and drinks for a woman who is going out with other men who are doing the exact same thing for her. It makes him feel like a fool. And who wants to date a fool?  We all know that the people we date are probably dating others. Especially if we meet them online. But we don’t want to know it. It makes it harder for us to justify spending the money or having the sexy time.

There are some questions that just should not be asked this soon in the dating process. “Are you dating anyone else” would be one of them. Any person who asks that question or offers up that information so soon in the dating process has very poor dating skills. So take note and heed that warning.

I am a very giving person  and tend to help out on paying for dates but after 3 or 4 dates have passed.

Right. And guys prefer that they get to get a blow job before they pay for 3 or 4 dates. Crass? Yes. Honest? Yes. Point? It’s not all about you.

I’m not sure what it is you gain from a man paying for 3 or 4 dates other than the delusion that that means, for sure,  he’s totally into you or not going to have sex with you and never call. Thoughts like this are to women what a woobie (blanket) is to a child. They provide nothing but a false sense of security. Women need to understand that if a man is that desperate for sex, money is no object. A sucker will take you out 4 times and pay every time without any sort of reciprocation because, well, he has to.

A man with a backbone will take you out on 4 dates, pay every time, but have sex with other women while he waits for you to decide it’s safe to reach in to your wallet or have sex. Then he’ll either dump you strictly on principle or continue sleeping with you and those other women and never offer you more than that.

ETA: I happen to think that the idea of taking turns paying for dates is a smart one, especially considering how volatile dating has become. I don’t know how long it will take these antiquated social expectations to die, but I sure wish they’d hurry up. We are all dating more than usual now. It is completely unreasonable to expect someone to pay your way before you and they are even considering dating each other seriously. I truly believe that half of what we expect when it comes to dating is borne from exaggerations and falsehoods we hear from friends. Nothing makes the eyes roll into the back of my head further than a woman who swears that every guy she meets never expects her to pay her share or enjoys paying for her.

I recently heard the laughable excuse from one woman that she refuses to pay for dates until the pay wage gap issue is resolved. Right. That’s why you’ve been expecting men to pay for you since you were 16..because of feminism. Just admit that you like to be treated like a princess. Don’t drag feminism into it. This inconsistency is one of the reasons why so many men -men who otherwise believe in equality for women – scoff when a woman says she’s a feminist.

 

Thoughts?

Sometimes the love of your life is the love of your life. (R)

@ATWYSingle

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32 Responses to “How Many Dates ‘Til She Starts To Pay?”

  1. Kyra Says:

    I still don’t know the proper “rules” of paying on a date, I just let my intuition guide me.

    If I really like the guy I want to be nice and I usually offer to pay – I guess my reasoning is to try and repay him for giving me such an enjoyable night.

    If he insists on paying I’ll let him, but genuinely thank him.

    If I think I might see him again but it’s not a sure thing, if he offers I’ll let him pay.

    If I don’t plan on seeing him again I insist on paying my half.

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  2. HammersAndNails Says:

    Guy still seems like a real weirdo… Why not just pay? is he that tight on money? He knows the expectation, and he knows he’s making his life difficult here.

    Why tell her he’s dating other people? Even if a woman asked, which makes her a weirdo, I wouldn’t give her a straight answer. I wouldn’t lie. I’d just dodge the question, which is kind of an answer, but a bit less blunt then coming out and saying it in black and white.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 12

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      Agreed, but I’m actually somewhat impressed he’s able to pull it off. I mean, she’s actually considering his proposal. He must be playing a very strong hand.

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    • Nicole Says:

      Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to date other people after only a few weeks, or with wanting to split the costs of dating. But telling her flat out that way… Seems less like wanting to be open about everything and more like he just doesn’t care if he ever sees her again. Either he’s very socially inept or he has so many girls waiting in line to date him that he can afford to behave like this.

      And I’m with DMN, if he can pull this off, I’m kind of impressed. There are not many women who are going to be cool with both paying half AND being just another girl in the rotation, no matter how amazeballs the guy is.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1

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      • PwdrPuff Says:

        You took the words right of my mouth, but I have a feeling that this guy is leaning more towards being socially inept/not good at dating, than a dismissive D-bag that takes pleasure in flaunting his prowess in the face of his would-be dates. If it’s the later, he needs to be quickly put in check.

        And my issue with this guy is not about his dating ideals regarding splitting the check or dating around till a solid relationship established, it’s about him rudely & blatently verbalizing this to his date. This is an actual red flag that Moxie has brought many times before, but interestingly enough fails to this time.

        I’m not ashamed to say I would have also been put off by his request and admission as well. I don’t care if it’s an anti feminist or non progressive attitude towards current relationships in today’s society.

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        • Julie Says:

          I agree that its social ineptitude. Ordinary guys with a plethera of options usually have those options because they make women feel amazing and special. Instead, this guy’s bluntness is making the OP feel lousy. I’m surprised she is hanging around for this and I’d be very suprised if this guy had all that many options. I wonder what the reaction would have been if a guy wrote in saying, “I’m dating a girl who wont sleep with me until we are exclusive because the last guy she slept with on the first date made her feel used. She also said she is going to date other guys until we are exclusive.” Nothing wrong with any of that per se but why anyone would hang around while someone is rubbing this in their face is beyond me.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2

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  3. Jordan Says:

    How Many Dates ‘Til She Starts To Pay?

    1

    This isn’t Princess and The Plow Horse.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 6

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  4. LostSailor Says:

    It’s been 3 weeks and she’s upset that he’s still dating other women? I applaud this “shy” guy for not only suggesting alternating paying for dates but also being up front about dating other women.

    As Moxie noted, she wants to wait for 3 or 4 dates before offering to pay. I suspect she’s been on a lot of 3d but not 4th dates. She knows they’re not exclusive, but she’s used to being sorta exclusive and men paying for all the dates.

    Annabelle isn’t “conservative” in her thinking, she’s being entitled in her thinking. If she wants to be exclusive, then ask for it. But she should also be prepared to the actual commitment that entails…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 5

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    • jane Says:

      I agree. I’d prefer his honesty so I can decide if our dating styles match or if I can walk away before getting involved. Dating other people is a touchy topic. Some people feel cool other people feel hurt. And id rather make an informed decision than playing games where we dance around getting passive aggressively more confused and threatened by what they might be doing.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

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  5. Yvonne Says:

    “Especially since he spoke with me about his past dates taking advantage of him financially and his last girlfriend was dependent on him financially. He basically paid her personal bills. ”

    Come on. Sounds like a pity party to me. He can’t pay for more than one date because of what he “perceives” all these previous women did to him? Why should Annabelle bear any responsibility for that? I think he should work out his issues before dumping them on the next person, or come up with a better rationale. If he simply doesn’t believe in paying, then just say so, but don’t drag your previous baggage into it as justification.

    I also hope that Annabelle is keeping her options open as well, and not seeing this man more than once a week.

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    • BostonRobin Says:

      That’s my concern, not that he wants her to pay, but that he has to bring up the ex. Hey, lesson learned, but why bring up the sad, sad sob story?

      This guy doesn’t sound ready to date anyone seriously. I hope the LW sees that. Ugh, I hate it when I feel like someone is comparing me to an ex, even if it seems favorable. Because you know at some point they’re going to compare you unfavorably, probably not say anything though. Too much (or any, frankly) talk of an ex in the early stages of dating is a major red flag to me. Get over your anger or sorrow so you can appreciate the person in front of you!

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      • Yvonne Says:

        Even worse, it’s not only one woman, “but his past dates taking advantage of him financially” in general. I’d wonder what kind of issues he has with women. Is that also why he feels the need to announce that he is dating others? To avoid being taken advantage of? I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with dating more than one person in the early stages, and we all might assume that is happening with those we go out with early on, but it’s actually not a given that everyone follows this course.

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        • Camie Says:

          It sounds like he is so bitter about other women from the past that he had to make dating policy changes and lets all the current women in his life know about it. I’m sure this won’t be the last of her having to hear about those evil women who took advantage of him and spent all his money.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 7

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          • mindstar Says:

            While socially clueless how is what he is doing any different from a woman who says “she wants to wait to have sex because she’s felt used by men in the past” and wants to feel “comfortable” with the guy?

            And I agree 100% with Lost Sailor she’s likely been on plenty of 3rd dates and few 4th dates.

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            • Camie Says:

              I didn’t say it was any different. Both are on the defensive and still mad about someone who’s no longer around. There are easier people to date.

              If someone likes to take turns paying, that’s fine, but if they say it’s because of so and so from years ago that means they’re living in the past. He can keep the policy and lose the story and hopefully the emotional trauma.

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  6. Mandy Says:

    I don’t understand the concept of wanting to be exclusive until you decide you want to be exclusive. If you’re just dating and getting to know each other, you should both be open to dating other people. Once you decide you think you may have a future together, you decide to be exclusive and stop dating other people.

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    • Julie Says:

      Not everyone dates the same way or assigns the same value to exclusivity. Some people really enjoy dating around, and giving up that freedom is a really big deal and is only warranted when they’ve fallen in love with someone they see a future with. For others exclusivity isnt “exclusivity”, its just dating. It doesnt mean they are in love after a date or two. It just means they found someone they want to get to know without the distraction of other pursuits. I’m surprised this is now seen as so bizarre. It wasnt that long ago that two-timing was frowned upon. I’m not saying that there’s a right and a wrong here, but I’m surprised that so many people see anything other than multi-dating as out-of-line.

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      • Mandy Says:

        If someone wants to just focus on dating one person at a time then that’s up to them. I never successfully dated more than one person at a time, it was just too much for me and I didn’t feel I could take either of them seriously that way. That’s different than requiring exclusivity. Should you really be able to require exclusivity of your partner before you’ve agreed to be exclusive?

        And I wasn’t aware that “two-timing” was something that could happen before you were in a relationship with someone. Now or in the past.

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        • Julie Says:

          Oops, you’re right. Marian Webster defines two-timing in terms of marriage.

          I’m not sure what you mean by requiring exclusivity. Dating style is just another point of compatibility. If someone is turned off by multi-daters then they move on when they find out they are with one. Its no different than moving on because you are turned off by guys who wont sleep with you until marriage or start calling you his girlfriend after one date. Everyone has their own pace and expectations for dating.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

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          • D. Says:

            Everyone has their own pace and expectations for dating.

            Well, but that’s kind of the point, isn’t it? I think there’s something to be said for remaining at least somewhat flexible about what you’re looking for and what you’ll tolerate in dating. Like, ok, great, you decided on date #2 that you wanted to focus on this person, but you’re also rational enough to recognize that it’s a little silly to require the other person to do the same.

            To me, deciding to focus on one person early and needing the other person to perfectly reciprocate your affections in every way just smacks of an underlying insecurity. Like, you aren’t comfortable enough letting them do their thing, at least initially and within reason.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

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  7. The D-man Says:

    I am a very giving person and tend to help out on paying for dates but after 3 or 4 dates have passed.

    No, you’re not “very” giving. You’re just average at best.

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  8. CoolDude Says:

    Only surprising thing about this is that it’s not coming from a woman in her 20’s. Homegirl, you’re 38, it’s not too much to ask that you pay for yourself from time to time when first dating someone.

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  9. Nicki Says:

    I pretty much expect for a guy to pay on the first date but I always offer to pay for mine nonetheless. Truthfully, for many people times are tough and I like being sensitive to that.

    After the first date then I’m more than willing to alternate as I’m getting to know someone. Dating is hard and expensive and I don’t think that I should assume a man will foot the bill on each and every date.

    Once in a relationship where we are only seeing each other then I like to guage it on our incomes. Not that I ask how much money they make quickly but you can typically tell by the field and other factors. If I know that I make more than a man does then I’m okay with paying for more and vice versa.

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    • AC Says:

      “I pretty much expect for a guy to pay on the first date but I always offer to pay for mine nonetheless.”

      What if you know you aren’t interested and don’t plan on seeing the guy again?

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      • Abby Says:

        While I would always offer to pay, usually the guy would insist. If I didn’t plan on seeing him again I would at the very least let him know that I was genuinely thankful and appreciative of the time and money spent on our date and endeavor to treat my escort with as much dignity as possible. ( I think this sounds kind of pretentious, but I’m not coming up with better wording).

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      • Nicki Says:

        If I don’t plan on seeing a guy again then I will insist a little more about paying my half and if he asks me to dinner again I will be honest that it wasn’t there for me.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

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  10. AC Says:

    “I happen to think that the idea of taking turns paying for dates is a smart one, especially considering how volatile dating has become.I don’t know how long it will take these antiquated social expectations to die, but I sure wish they’d hurry up. We are all dating more than usual now. It is completely unreasonable to expect someone to pay your way before you and they are even considering dating each other seriously.”

    There’s something to be said for this. One has to wonder how many guys that say they don’t mind paying for early dates are really saying:

    “I don’t want to be labeled as cheap so I’ll go along with tradition.”

    Better yet:

    “I’ll go along with this because if I don’t, I might not get laid.”

    The only was these these antiquated social expectations will die is of more guys sack up and point out the obvious – we’re all dating more and dating properly isn’t cheap. No need to start injecting math equations into this, just common sense.

    If anything, I’ve noticed a trend towards more women offering to pay on dates. Not only to most guys appreciate this because but it decreases the likelihood of online dating burnout.

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    • HammersAndNails Says:

      “I’ll go along with this because if I don’t, I might not get laid.”

      I’m not sure I follow. What other reason is there? If i meet woman who I’d like to be friends with, nobody expects me to pay for her dinner. I don’t mind paying for dates…. because I like having sex and don’t feel the need to make my life difficult to save a few bucks.

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      • AC Says:

        I’m referring to situations where the guy might ignore his gut feeling that the date is not progressing and, rather than cut bait, he’s goes along with paying knowing that he’s never going to see the woman again.
        The more confident guys rarely get themselves into these spots, so if you’ve never been there, good for you (no sarcasm.)

        It’s not about saving a few bucks.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

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        • Steve from the city next door Says:

          In the smaller dating pools like I have been in it is likely that someone you date in the future (or would like to) knows the current date. It is very easy to get a reputation.

          About a year ago when I was back where I used to live I ran into 3 ladies that I had pursued at various times in the past all out together. They had all become friends – they had ended up all working for the same place.

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  11. Nia Says:

    I must respectfully assert that money and sex are two very different “resources”. I don’t think that men “should” pay for a date, but at the same time…money is a fungible, renewable resource that you can ‘split up’–totally unlike sex.

    You can only have sex the first time once with a guy, and there’s no real way to “spend” only a small amount of sex (since let’s face it, a blow job or “heavy petting” might as well be sex for all intents and purposes). If a man spends too much money or ‘wastes’ his money on date, he will be frustrated and sad, but he doesn’t risk the emotional fallout that can come from trusting someone with your body and your physical affection and having them biff off into nowhere the next day.

    Okay, so you spent 40 dollars on a second date that didn’t pan out. That burns. But…honestly it’s not the same as having a wonderful third date with a great guy and taking a chance, being intimate with them, and then having that guy never call you. Some women can shrug that off as collateral damage, just as some men perhaps have lots of disposable cash to “burn”. So…in short, make sure you have the “resources” to spend before you spend it—sex or money.

    But sex is NOT the same as money :)

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  12. Steve D. Says:

    Oddly enough, I’ve had several women mention that they had future dates planned. I thought that tacky and yeah, I wold definitely keep my wallet guarded with them. Actually, I would rather they date the other guys first. I don’t mind chasing, but I’m not competing. I’ve also been told once that she wouldn’t have sex outside of a committed relationship. Ok, fine then. Guess what? I won’t spend outside of a committed relationship.

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