There’s Nothing I Loathe More Than a Whiny Dude

Chrissmall_jimmy hoffa finger

Its great that you write….I do too.

For any venture to succeed it must be balanced. None of us or our friends would buy a book if it were just about a certain race or gender…..

We hope your book is balanced and addresses the “double standards” men experience everyday too.

For instance at work we are told to expect women to be equals…..yet if we suggest getting together with a woman, she usually expects us to pay….its a double standard is it not? Its also sexist. Overwhelmingly, women still look for the free meal ticket. (presumably an acknowledgement of being the weaker sex and in need of a subsidy).
Women need to start by themselves setting the higher standard.

There are many instances like the one above that women start – these initial get-to-know-you “double standards” lead to an expectation of double standards as a relationship progresses.

Best wishes,

Steve, John and Linda



Tell me something, Steve: how often do you get approached by strange women and have to hear things like this:


How often is your value determined by your weight or your age? How often are you threatened with death or rape for speaking out against something? When you walk around, are you afraid you’ll be assaulted? Go ahead. Marinate on that. I’ll sit here and wait for you to compile a list of all the ways you are marginalized and discriminated against and judges bashed on nothing but your external features and attributes. Got a number yet, Steve?

I don’t mean to suggest that men don’t suffer similar harsh criticisms. Yeah, men are often judged by how much they make, and that’s another double standard. I’ll beat you to the punch on that one. And, yes, short guys do get the shaft pretty often because a lot of women want to omigawd wear heels. (Whatever with that one.) But strictly being white and male affords you far more status than you apparently realize. I’m sure if you were to turn to men of color and ask them what double standards bother them the most, the ones related to dating would be way down on their list.

I’m not suggesting that men should just suck it up and pay the bill, either. You guys are stuck between a rock and a hard place on that one. Pay and set a precedent that you’ll always pay or don’t pay and be considered cheap. You are not given the freedom to stand up for yourself on this one. Well, you are, but most of you don’t take it because you know it won’t end well for you. It’s unfair and it’s antiquated and needs to stop. A lot of women need to get the hell over this whole expectation, put their money with their mouths are,  and start forking over some cash.

What I am saying is that you (white) guys are hardly in need of a voice. Also, do yourself  a favor and don’t make sweeping generalizations about all women. That weakens your argument further. No, we’re not all out for a free meal. Yes, plenty of us have no problem paying our way. Stop lumping us all together.

For the record, I absolutely call out bad female behavior in my book. I read yet another Chick Lit novel yesterday that had me cringing at how women were depicted as shallow, bitchy, competitive, and obsessed with men. I had women who read the excerpts say things like, “Um, maybe you should change this scene so it’s no so polarizing? ” Um, no. I won’t do that. I didn’t get where I am today as a blogger/writer by catering to that nonsense. Boo hoo, sometimes women behave badly, too. Sorry, Frisky and xoJane writers who constantly accuse people of being jealous and miserable if they leave critical comments on their posts or like to believe those commenters enjoy tearing other women down. No, that’s not it. Speaking for myself, I sometimes leave critical comments on your questionable writing because I’m tired of seeing women portrayed as irrational and unstable broken dolls who lack self-awareness, display critically bad judgment and not an ounce of accountability, and are unable to formulate a cohesive or logical argument. I’m allowed to find that offensive and believe it makes other women look bad. Maybe you’re the ones threatened by other women and not the other way around.

Anywhoo….Steve, I do understand. I just think maybe you should check yourself  a bit before you write condescending emails like this. In the grand scheme of things, you boys do okay.


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28 Responses to “There’s Nothing I Loathe More Than a Whiny Dude”

  1. 3legdog Says:

    Playing the “woman as perpetual victim” card?

    You’ve reminded me that it’s time to clean up my feedly subscriptions…

    Peace out

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 32


  2. AC Says:

    Let’s be fair. Moxie has flat out told women to “pay their fair share” umpteen times.

    Yes, dating is filled with double standards – on both sides. Most won’t change any time soon. It’s wiser to acknowledge they exist and deal accordingly then waste energy complaining about them.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 0


    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Total agree.

      Hey dudes, since most women prefer you pay first, use that double standard for good: cheerfully pay the first several dates and see how long it takes for her to offer. The sooner she does, the better she is.

      Part of being a man is having the courage to take a gamble.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1


  3. J Says:

    Women need to start by themselves setting the higher standard.

    Re-write that sentence except replace “women” with any ethnic group name. You now realize how discriminatory and condescending that sounds?

    presumably an acknowledgement of being the weaker sex and in need of a subsidy

    I mean, you’re just trying to be incendiary here, right? I paid for dinner with my future husband more than 50% of the time before we merged finances (not because I’m so great, but because I was picking the places / requesting we go out).

    So does that imply that he is acknowledging that men are the weaker sex requiring subsidy? And if so, how does it feel for you, Steve and John, that my husband gets to make that choice on BEHALF OF YOU AND ALL MEN?

    and Linda

    OK, sure, whatever.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1


  4. Davis Says:

    Sorry to cut in but I just noticed something on your blog.

    You say that white guys are hardly in need of a voice. Are you saying that black and yellow guys are because isn’t that what they have rap music for? Doesn’t the Wootang Gang and BMX or whoever the latest craze is today say all that is needed to be said because I remember hearing some pretty fucking colourful lyrics coming from those lots and I am not sure there is much left to be said. It is one thing to beat a cow but to keep dragging its arse against the ground after it is already dead seems a bit over the top. You are 40 years too late.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 27


    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Comment: Wow. So you block me from making comments because I have a few goes at people who hate people with disabilities. I take it most of your members must be insecure hateful pricks then for them to be so offended by my posts but don’t worry, I won’t waste your time anymore because I am not going to stay on a site where it is fine to bully people with disabilities.

      Take your discrimination and blow it out ass.


      Your comment was moderated because you used a different email address than you have for previous comments. WordPress autotmatically moderates comments that have not been previously approved based on their email address.

      You really need to stop with these knee jerk defensive reactions. They make you look unstable. Do it again, and I’ll block you.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0


      • Davis Says:

        Block me then. Honestly. Fuck all of you. You hated me from day one because I said I had disabilities and tried to make me feel like shit for having them. I have better things to do than put up with your shit.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 24


        • Davis Says:

          I might have disabilities but I am not stupid and my sister even agrees with me about this site. Funny how I get more friendly responses on Reddit but people on here are straight to attack me because I have disabilities. You want to make me look unstable so you can humiliate people with disabilities so you push me to react. I am done biting and playing your pitiful head games. I am better than that.

          You just don’t like the fact I speak up.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 23


    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Davis, you are one whiny dude.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1


      • Davis Says:

        And one more thing.

        I will be sure to let everybody know how people on this site truly feel about people with disabilities seeing though you hate us so much and I have everything I need printscreened so covering it up isn’t going to stop it from being seen by other people. I wrote the above post as a test and with 9 thumbs downs it passed with flying colours.

        You will acknowledge discrimination against blacks but not discrimination against people with disabilities even though they face nowhere near the same amount of discrimination we face now. Ask yourself, how many blacks do you know in 2015 come into a world and are taught they are wrong from day one? How many blacks are frequently putdown in movies and TV shows made in 2015? How many blacks in 2015 are bullied every day for being black or better yet how many blacks in 2015 kill themselves because they can’t handle the discrimination that comes with being black? 40 years ago I would agree with you the same way I would with gays when I was in high school but today not so much……….You people are hypocrites because you only stand up for blacks and gays because it is the fashionable thing to do. You have the same hate previous generations had but you just project it all on to us now but if it wasn’t fashionable you would be the same.

        Call me whiny, call me whatever the fuck you want but I am not going to back down until things change and every single boy and girl in this world with a disability no longer has to face discrimination from hypocrites like you and I don’t care who I have to take down to do this. I have nothing left to lose anymore and if people want to shut me up they are going to have to kill me.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 22


        • HammersAndNails Says:

          So I take it it’s a developmental disability in your case?

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5


        • Kyra Says:

          Wow, it really has nothing to do with your disabilities, Davis.

          The reason you get downvoted and get criticized is because you immediately jump on the defensive every time someone says something you don’t want to hear.

          Or you get inexcusably impatient and rude as soon as you don’t get a response in the timeline you expected.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0


          • D. Says:


            It’s got nothing to do with disabilities, and everything to do with being unpleasant.

            The world can be simultaneously sympathetic to you because of your disability, and still want nothing to do with you because of your shitty attitude.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0


        • ATWYSingle Says:

          Can we all please ignore this guy? I mean, honestly. Does it sound like you can reason with him? Please just ignore him. The only reason I posted this here was because I wasn’t sure which address he gave was a real one. Just ignore him.

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0


  5. BTownGirl Says:

    Awwww, so some women expect (yes, it’s obnoxious, I gotcha!) you to spend your hard-earned money on them? Well, a few years ago, I had a very well-respected boss that asked me to step into his office, whereupon he grabbed my right boob. Full on. So, yeah, my money is sometimes pretty hard-earned too and be sure to let us know when anything like that happens to you and a couple of your buddies have similar stories.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4


    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Well, I did have a boss attack me with a pocket knife once, but it must have been a bluff because I’m much larger.

      And I had another one fire me because I laughed at something stupid he did.

      I’ve had a few minor altercations on job sites with a**holes.

      But none has grabbed my boob yet.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2


    • AC Says:

      Boob grab = sexual assault.

      Pocket knife= assault with a deadly weapon.

      The obvious question is did the police get involved? If not, did your company try to cover up the problem? If so, I can empathize because higher ups are sometimes more interested in saving their sorry behinds than doing what’s right.

      I’m sorry you both had to go through that.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0


      • Joey Giraud Says:

        Rest assured, I have thick skin.

        The knife-wielding ex-boss did indeed go to jail a year later for some other more significant malfeasance. Larceny, IIRC.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0


  6. CL Pike Says:

    It took three people to write this?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1


  7. Ben Iyyar Says:

    I agree with Moxie that just by virtue of being male, we men have certain advantages in the relationship arena. I believe that the biggest benefit we men enjoy is regarding our age. As men we are not diminished as we grow older, sadly age does not too often make a woman more attractive.
    That said, when I was dating, I generally felt a mixture of enjoyable anticipation and even hope before my dates. Far too often, I also had feelings of self doubt as to my attractiveness to my date, whether I would be attracted to her, if we could talk comfortably with each other, if we had serious common interests, and what we liked to do for fun.
    I have met guys who know exactly what their advantages are regarding women, and how they unscrupulously used them. But in my experience, these sorts of predators are really rare.
    We men have self doubts as well. We have spent many nights alone and sad and we also wonder if we will end up alone and sad. All those advantages we men supposedly enjoy do nothing to relieve that kind of anguish.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1


  8. mgm531 Says:

    So you condemn a whiny diatribe by writing your own whiny diatribe?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 8


  9. Shadowcat Says:

    I have a million opinions on this subject (many that contradict each other BTW, so I don’t have the answer either :P ) But I will mention that there is a balance of power that operates when someone is the “provider” and that person is usually male. But then again, I come from the point of view of someone who has been nearly exclusively in LTR’s for most of my adult life. I’ve always been treated like the proverbial “princess” in the beginning of relationships (granted I was much younger and cuter, so that might have had something to do with it) and in the long term ended up with the roles reversed and having to shoulder a lot of the financial responsibility for the both of us when we became an official “couple” And I don’t mean dinners out, I’m talking stuff likes household bills, health insurance, etc. So with one notable exception, they all got a bargain in the end in terms of money spent. (for some reason, EVERY man I’ve been in a relationship with since my senior year in college has quit his job to “find himself” or some facsimile thereof… But my Dad was a bohemian artist who my Mom supported financially nearly their entire marriage, but I’ll leave that one to Dr. Freud..) I’ve said here before that several times I’ve offered (genuinely) to pay, and received a VERY negative reaction, as of I’d committed a faux-pas. Can’t there just be a symposium of dating where the rules are officially set down and everyone knows what’s expected of them? X number of dates before sex, or who pays & when, whatever… Maybe Moxie can sponsor it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0


  10. Bill Says:

    OP definitely states this in a whiny way, lol! Yes, there is a double standard on picking up the tab, and BOTH sides suffer. The guys for the obvious reason, we’ve experienced plenty of women who are just looking for dinner dates, period, or that’s the limit of how they see us. Keep in mind, we’ve experienced this hundreds, if not thousands of times with waitresses and bar staff flirting for bigger tips.

    Ladies, you suffer too because of this. Guys you thought you were really clicking with routinely disappear after the second or third date? This is one big reason! If you think it’s going really well, on the second or third date, pick up the check. Don’t ask, or offer, I mean literally pick it up, with a smile, “It’s my turn, you can get the next one.” and a wink.

    WOW! THAT in itself would be so refreshing and confident (not to mention frickin’ sexy, yeah, I like strong women) that it would practically guarantee a next date, and, unless that one bombed, likely two!

    It kills several birds with one stone. It answers for the guy whether it’s “worth it” to take you out again and definitely let’s him know that you are interested, at least in another date or two. Plus, it removes any hint, on either persons’ part, of there being an “obligation” (yuck!) because the guy always pays.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1


  11. Jim Says:

    Instead of whining or agonizing about social norms, I prefer to focus my attention on bettering myself, the end result of which will make me more appealing to women. That seems like a much more efficient use of my time.

    If a girl is on a date with me, I’ve already invested a fair amount of time researching and vetting her. I guess maybe part of Steve’s vetting process should be determining whether his date warrants paying for dinner. Personally, I can’t ever remember a time when a potential dinner bill was the deciding factor in whether I go on a date.

    Once a woman makes it past my vetting stage, dinner is on me. I’m happy to pay it, and I expect nothing in return. It’s the cost of doing business. If you can’t afford it, stay home.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3


  12. Jim Says:

    And if we’re talking about being “balanced”, women would likely pick up more tabs if they were paid the same as men for the same work.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3


  13. mindstar Says:

    Warren Farrell posed a very interesting question when he wrote his book, Why Men Earn More: if men are truly paid more for the same standard of work as a woman, why would anyone ever hire a man?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0


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