If He Walks Like a Douchebag And Talks Like a Douchebag – HE’S A DOUCHEBAG

Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): LindaDouchebag+guitar+man+everyone+knows+a+guy+like+this_8ffc0d_3587748

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Comment: I’ve been texting and emailing with this guy I met online for over two months. We attempted to meet a few times, but he cancelled once and I had to cancel once due to personal obligations and being sick. He was away on work trips, then I was away on vacation. During the whole time I’ve been dating other people. The fun banter we had over text was entertaining and I was intrigued enough to keep talking to him on and off (and admittedly was very attracted to his pictures), but felt in my gut he was an online time waster. I kept talking to him because I was bored during dating droughts and thought he was cute and funny, so texted him back (probably a bad idea looking back). Also as Moxie has discussed before in her blog, online dating in your mid to late 30s is difficult and I probably give too many people more chances then they deserve now than I did in my 20s and early 30s.

About a week ago we actually met in person for the first time and the date went really well. Now we’re trying to plan a second date, and when he asked me to come to his place to cook me dinner, I told him I wasn’t comfortable going to his place so soon but would like to see him again and we could meet somewhere in the city. He got offended saying I was assuming things about him that weren’t true, and didn’t understand why I wasn’t comfortable with him yet after texting for months- he said he couldn’t believe all those conversations “meant nothing” to me. He said he thought I was projecting onto him baggage from other guys, and that going to his apartment does not automatically mean we have to have sex. Texting to me means nothing. Anything that comes before the first date doesn’t really count, and it’s not like we texted about these intimate details about ourselves and our lives, it was mostly joking, talking about what we were doing, and trying to make plans, etc., very light texts. Am I being crazy thinking texting for months without meeting in person means nothing? I feel like he’s trying to manipulate me to get what he wants, trying to make me feel guilty for not being comfortable enough with him yet to go to his place on just the second date. If he’s really interested, it wouldn’t matter where we went on the second date, I would think he’d just want to see me again regardless of the location. I guess I’m writing in about this because I’ve seen Moxie reply to some questions about trying not to label the guy a creep when he invites you to his place so soon in dating, and there are times when you should give it a chance and just keep your boundaries clear.
Age: 35
City: New York
State: New York

 

I told him I wasn’t comfortable going to his place so soon but would like to see him again and we could meet somewhere in the city. He got offended saying I was assuming things about him that weren’t true, and didn’t understand why I wasn’t comfortable with him yet after texting for months- he said he couldn’t believe all those conversations “meant nothing” to me.

I heard a great saying the other day that applies to this situation.

No one has ever been offended by a statement that doesn’t apply to them.

You were assuming things about him that were absolutely true.  The “let me make you dinner at my place” second or third date is cliche at this point. Cooking a meal for a woman on the second or third date is a move, one that most women know about at this point. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. He’s bent because you saw through his act while he sat there thinking he was so suave and clever.

I feel like he’s trying to manipulate me to get what he wants, trying to make me feel guilty for not being comfortable enough with him yet to go to his place on just the second date.

He is trying to manipulate you. When a guy feels a need to do those kinds of verbal gymnastics to prove something, be warned. In the off chance that this douchebag actually cared about your feelings, he would have immediately backed off from the invitation and said he understood. Instead, he plowed along on his guilt trip hoping you’d cave.

The reason this guy is immediately being dismissed as a douchebag is because of how he tried to turn your rejection around on you. There’s nothing wrong with a man or woman hoping to get laid after a date. Is a guy automatically a player for doing the dinner at my place thing? No. Not every guy is desperate to get in a woman’s pants all the time. But this guy is. Desperate, I mean. So much so that he’s trying to gaslight you into thinking you’re the one with issues. That’s the red flag here, along with the two month long email exchange that resulted in only one date. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is that busy that they can’t find two hours in two months to meet for a drink. He’s not the President of The United States.

You’re completely within your rights not to assign a huge level of familiarity to those email exchanges. Until you meet someone, they are nothing more than a one dimensional character to you. They do not merit an extensive level of emotional attachment. If they do develop such a devotion strictly through email, that’s not a good sign.

You know what to do next.

Thoughts?

Sometimes the love of your life is the love of your life. (R)

@ATWYSingle

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25 Responses to “If He Walks Like a Douchebag And Talks Like a Douchebag – HE’S A DOUCHEBAG”

  1. mistori Says:

    I agree w Moxie, he was Manipulative, Big Time!

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  2. Yvonne Says:

    Sometimes we women feel like it’s our job not to offend anyone. However, the best thing you can do is trust your gut and your judgement. You’ve already had the sense that this guy is a time waster, that you are not comfortable being alone with him in private yet, and that he’s trying to manipulate and guilt you into doing what he wants.

    Those are not signs that there is something wrong with you, but they do indicate some problems with him, and here is where your intuition protects you. If a man can’t respect your feelings and comfort level, and if something seems off about him, he’s not right for you. Trust yourself.

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    • Bill Says:

      Yvonne, Moxie and the prevailing advice is correct. Though, I would use the strongest words possible and boil this situation down to…

      “RUN, Forrest, run!”

      This is not a matter of sifting through tea leaves, looking for context, shades of gray, etc. This is a huge, Texas-sized red flag waving. He places zero value on your sense of safety and disrespects your right to say no… and all of this after a single date. Go no further it will only get worse.

      Drop this loser, post haste, and cross your fingers that a restraining order won’t be necessary.

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  3. Jason Says:

    Bad move on the guy’s part. A man worth his salt learns early on to be attentive to a woman’s comfort level for home visits and to be patient, understanding and unoffended until shes ready. Assuming hes over 21, he should have entered the age of reason and learned that by now instead of arguing. Instead, this guy had an immature ego/impatience reaction. This kind of crap might come up again. Red flag, bad sign, game over for him.

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  4. D. Says:

    I’d just like to point out that this is the second post in as many days involving a back-and-forth exchange for months on end, with an unsurprisingly negative outcome (or, as with yesterday’s post, no outcome at all).

    Seriously, people, stop dragging on correspondence with folks for weeks and weeks. It almost never ends well.

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  5. fuzzilla Says:

    Wow, gaslighting before a second date? Klassy.

    Moxie’s right on, but I think the OP already knew all that, more or less. Wonder why she’s doubting herself. Dating is just that wearying? Is he very persistent with these manipulative messages?

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    • D. Says:

      My guess is that there’s a part of her that wishes he behaved differently so that things would work out, and it’s in conflict with the rest of her that knows this dude is not someone she wants to be involved with. Put simply, she hasn’t let go of her idea of who this guy was supposed to be.

      This is yet another reason why you shouldn’t do the back-and-forth communication for weeks before meeting: it allows too much opportunity to create a fantasy version of this other person, rather than get to know them for who they really are in person.

      Hell, he’s probably guilty of the same thing. In his mind, he figured they’d fast-forwarded through a lot of the early dating stuff, he already “had” her on his line, and they could skip to the “Why don’t I cook for you (and you spend the night)?” date. Then — surprise! — she turns out to not be cool with that and he’s stuck dealing with his fantasy not matching the reality.

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      • bbdawg Says:

        Yeah and yet the hard thing about dating is that you can’t script a connection or sex in advance…it has to sort of happen naturally ONCE you meet a person. It seems that this texting issue comes up when a guy wants to keep his basis covered to sort of “guarantee” a connection with a woman before finding out if it is there naturally…

        …and in this case it was made worse by the “suave” move of cooking…I mean unless a man is a professional chef or something that puts women in that awkward position of having to be obliging, giving compliments to break the ice (wow you are such a great cook thank you!!!) and being “nice” (because wow he’s a “nice guy” who just cooked you dinner…). There is also the control issue – it’s in the guy’s apt and he does everything and you are sort of held captive there. Kinda gross.

        When I was doing online there were these icky profiles of relatively older men who “love cooking” and “want to cook for you” who were sort of similar to the guys who are “great with their hands” and “love giving massages”. Both situations put women in the captive audience mode that is rarely pleasant unless you REALLY connect with someone, in which case you don’t need creepy tricks to hold a woman’s attention.

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  6. chillybeans Says:

    What a sleaze ball to somehow think that months of texts build up the same confidence as meeting in person. OP and Moxie are right in that in means nothing. And Yvonne is correct with the whole “women don’t want to offend”, guys prey on that too. Don’t let him guilt you into this, and think of it this way, he did you a favor by showing his cards so early and thereby saving you time.
    Buh-bye loser!

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  7. bbdawg Says:

    Moxie was right on, but the texting thing (for a month, seriously??!!) really is a big initial red flag and the whole “I’ll cook for you” is kinda creepy. I can only do a few messages back and forth until I am like “you sound interesting but I’d rather meet in person to see if we connect”…there is no bigger time waster than texting. Completely meaningless and a true time waster.

    I mean it’s not actually hard to sleep with a woman if she’s interested in you (it sounds like the OP was actually into him after the first date) but the whole manipulative thing of “cooking for you” on the second date (like we don’t know the point of it is…) especially when it’s warm out, there is so much you can do outside. The man’s reaction just seals the whole thing as a dodged bullet, OP.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      I’m wary of texting time wasters, so I always nip it in the bud if a guy wants to text before meeting. You can text me after we’ve set up a date, about the logistics pertaining to said date.

      I’ve never had the endless texting thing happen to me, maybe because I read about it here, but I have had guys try to get me to talk on all different manner of social media before meeting and it was always a waste of time. It’s like, “Why do we need to connect on MySpace? We’re talking now. Just set up the damn date.” They’re either stockpiling booty calls or are simply attention whores.

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  8. Lisa Says:

    If you genuinely don’t feel comfortable going (bc you fear for your safety or some other concrete reason), you definitely should not go!

    Or is the issue that you’re not sure it’s “appropriate” to go at this point?

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    • Lisa Says:

      I’m asking the question bc I don’t understand the point of her asking for advice if she feels uncomfortable going there? Why even consider it?

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        I didn’t see any evidence of “OMG, will he think I’m a SLUT??” She just didn’t want to go, and owned that. Then he acted like a dick. End scene.

        Although I was also curious why she was writing in since she read the situation well. Dating can really pummel your self-esteem, so I guess she just wanted some backup and validation.

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      • mistori Says:

        Re:
        “I’m asking the question bc I don’t understand the point of her asking for advice if she feels uncomfortable going there? Why even consider it?”

        I think the reason she is considering it, i.e. writing in to ask about it is this:

        Her initial reaction was that she is not comfortable but he is gaslighting her & it is working a little bit. She is doubting herself so she is writing in for a reality check. I can’t read her mind but that is my take.

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    • Bill Says:

      Lisa, regardless of the detailed reason, she felt uncomfortable with the home cooked dinner date invitation from this guy. Whether it was too-much-too-soon-creepy, or just-plain-creepy, his reaction proved her 100% right in feeling uncomfortable.

      She doesn’t need to question her “intuition”, rather, she needs to trust it more. Be more confident in it. He was attempting to manipulate her. If he felt that entitled just from texting and one date, imagine how entitled he would have been after any further involvement.

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      • Bill Says:

        IMO, she knows his invitation was an over-step and that his reaction was a red flag. She’s questioning if she’s being paranoid. IMO, no, she’s not.

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      • Lisa Says:

        Right. Hence, my question: why are you asking for validation if YOU feel uncomfortable?

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        • ATWYSingle Says:

          Like Bill said, she was wondering if she was being paranoid. Hopefully that will put this burning obtuse question of yours to rest.

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          • Lisa Says:

            Obtuse? LOL I’m not the one considering going home w/ a stranger who belittled me…

            ***

            I’m wondering if the letter writer would have actually gone, despite her discomfort, if Moxie had told her she ~was~ just being paranoid.

            I really hope not and this kind of thing bothers me on a very fundamental level (way beyond this letter).

            I read a really good book called The Gift of Fear that explains how women have saved their own lives by listening to that uncomfortable, nagging feeling they get when things just don’t feel quite right.

            I hope it’s not wrong for me to mention that book here. Yes, online dating has become very commonplace and it’s easy to build a superficial sense of familiarity w/ ppl on those sites bc we’re all supposedly looking for the same thing. But women still get killed and brutalized and kidnapped and raped all the time. Plz keep things in perspective…

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            • D. Says:

              Keep it in perspective?

              Her initial letter doesn’t at all come across as being about fear for her safety. Rather, it comes across as simply not being ready to move that quickly in a relationship.

              She was asking whether she was being too hasty in assuming he wanted sex, or whether she’d read that correctly (which she did). That’s it.

              The parade of horribles you cite to isn’t really relevant to the specific issue at hand. In general, yeah, it’s a risk. So is walking home at night on your own. But neither really has anything to do with what this person was asking about.

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  9. mxf Says:

    I don’t think his logic evens holds up – if the past couple of months of texting mean you know each other well enough for you to head over to his place, no qualms at all, then that same trust and intimacy should also extend naturally to sex. If he’s saying that dinner at home is totally acceptable at this point, why would sex be off the table?

    Whatever, all that aside, he made you feel bad about yourself before the second date even happened. He sounds aggressively defensive and faux-wounded. You’re right – if he were excited to see you again, he wouldn’t care at all where it takes place. In fact, if he had invited you over out of some naive or inexperienced context (unlikely), he would probably be worried that he’d given you the wrong impression once you countered with a public spot, not angry with your reasoning. I know it’s a bummer because you did invest a bit more time in this than maybe was a good idea, and the first date going well was a pleasant surprise, I’m sure. It’s just that most people who act outraged or butthurt to get what they want do it regularly. Is that something you want in your life?

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    • RedneckGeekGurl Says:

      This is dead on I think. While she may lack some experience in this online dating arena – she read this guy right. Think she was wondering if she WAS uptight and reading him wrong after him throwing it as her fault. Just a reality check.

      And …. Do not forget – she found his photos and him very attractive – easier to say no if the guy is not !

      OP – yes it is different dating once you hit your sell-by date (sarcasm from one who can say that!)… But it is also more fun – different place in life and know yourself. Yes – do a dinner at his place 2nd date – with the guy that feels right for you.

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  10. Mark Says:

    Linda;

    You are 35 and in NY. Although I would probably say the same thing to almost anyone.

    Keep it simple.

    If someone is honestly interested in meeting you, they will try hard (read very hard) to do so. He really hasn’t. At least that I can tell given what you wrote.

    Two, looking down the line what do you see? More of the same? Why would you think that things would change all that much? Seems to me that he is always busy. I he is busy now, in all likely hood he will be busy later. If that is OK with you, then great. But I doubt that is what you are looking for.

    Frankly, I think that you already know most of the replies and you just need some validation to pull the plug on this guy. You instinct is telling you something, so you might want to follow it.

    Best of luck.

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  11. PGH_Gal Says:

    Any person who gets all defensive about YOUR boundaries is a jerk. Period.

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