Dating Rules 101: Don’t Date Assholes

Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): Tired of gamesGTFO
:
Comment: I think I already know the answers, but would like your thoughts…and would also like to see if this is common with other daters.

I’m a 45 year-old single man and I’ve always had decent success meeting women, online and offline. However, over the past few months a similar situation occurred with three different women, and I’d like to know if my actions and expectations were unreasonable.

Here’s the most recent scenario: I matched with a 30-something, attractive woman on Tinder. I messaged first and we started a texting conversation. She was traveling, so I suggested meeting when she returned and she agreed. We exchanged phone numbers, but didn’t communicate any further while she was out of town. She sent a message to let me know she returned (that was a Monday). We texted back and forth a bit that day, then I suggested meeting for after-work drinks, indicating I was available Tuesday and possibly Thursday. She chose Thursday, so I messaged that we should ‘pencil Thursday in’ and confirm that morning. She messaged back ‘Sounds good!’.

During the week I was active on Tinder, as was she, but we didn’t message each other. On Thursday I messaged her around 12:30pm (a little late) with ‘Hey, hope youre having a great week. Does tonight still work for you?’ I didn’t receive a reply until ~4pm, when she messaged something like ‘Sorry, when I didn’t hear from you this morning I made plans with a girlfriend. Can we meet another time?’ I’ll admit that I was a bit annoyed, but didn’t let on.

I texted back, ‘Sure, no problem. Let’s talk next week.’ We haven’t communicated since (that was a week ago).

My questions are (1) does my activity on Tinder, after we decided to meet, play a factor? (2) Should I have called her out on her message ‘…when I didn’t hear from you I made plans with a girlfriend’ by replying ‘Hey, you could have messaged me before making other plans’? (3) Since she was the one who broke our tentative plans, is it unreasonable to now expect her to reach out first to suggest drinks?

I know I’m being stubborn but, had the situation been reversed, wouldn’t she expect me to reach out first since I was the one who broke plans?

Thank you!
Age: 45
City: New York
State: NY

 

Spoiler alert: she didn’t make plans with a friend. She was busting your balls for not confirming with her by an appropriate time. She’s being unnecessarily rigid. While 12:30 certainly isn’t the morning and you did fail to meet an expectation you set, it’s not like you confirmed at 4:00. There was no valid reason for her to make other plans other than semantics. Now she just wants to teach you a lesson. The joke is on her, though, because she’s aging out of the window where she can effectively pull something like this and get away with it.

She always had the option of following  up with you to find out if your date was still on. Instead, she chose to sit back and let you hang yourself strictly so she could have the opportunity to turn you down and get high fives from her gal pals.

No, I don’t think your Tinder activity had anything to do with her response. And if that did play a part, she’s that much more of an idiot. Oh, you made a date with someone and now you think they should put everything else on hold until they meet you? Tell me more about how dating is so hard for you.

I think it has everything to do with her being a pain in the ass. Although I will say that if someone said to me that they would “pencil in” our date, I wouldn’t be thrilled. That does give off a somewhat flaky/I’m only moderately interested/this isn’t set in stone vibe.

I wouldn’t bother with this woman. If she follows up with you – and she likely will because 99% of the time when some man or woman pulls this “Oh no you didn’t” bullshit, they do – you can go out with her. In the moment, it feels super powerful to reject someone in the manner she rejected you, but then when that person you blew off doesn’t follow up to reschedule and the high wears off, you realize you probably shot yourself in the foot. More than likely, this woman will send you a coy message and pretend like nothing happened. If you want to deal with her high maintenance drama, go for it. Personally, I’d just ignore her.

Yes, she probably would expect you to reach out and set up a new date. But remember…she’s an asshole. So, of course she would. This is one of those situations where, when you get an obnoxious response like the one she gave you, you don’t even bother to respond. If she’s this much work before you even meet her, imagine the nightmare she’s going to be if you actually date her.

I keep trying to reiterate the fact that there is simply no time for this kind of nonsense anymore. People have far too many avenues that they can use to meet people. Men in their early forties do not have to deal with this bullshit. Their demand is too high. Too bad, so sad.

 

ETA: Here’s the major reason this woman is a huge asshole. If she got a better offer or just wasn’t feeling it or genuinely felt like he should have confirmed earlier (even though he basically met the stated expectation) then she could have just lied and said she was stuck at work or sick. Instead, she turned it around on the guy and blamed his alleged tardiness for why she was cancelling. That’s just a shitty way to handle it. Take ownership of the fact you don’t want to go out with someone and lie you’re fucking face off. Don’t intentionally try to shame someone because you can’t suck it up and be an adult.

If you don’t know that using an excuse as flimsy as the one this woman used makes you sound like an asshole (“Oh, sorry, you’re 31 minutes past the deadline. I already made other plans!”) then you’re an even bigger asshole.

The fact that it even needed to be clarified that this woman was a complete jerk for turning it around on the guy and making it his fault demonstrates why so many people find dating so difficult.

Stop being assholes, you assholes.

 

Thoughts?

Sometimes the love of your life is the love of your life. (R)

@ATWYSingle

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101 Responses to “Dating Rules 101: Don’t Date Assholes”

  1. jenny Says:

    OMG. I so agree. She will 100% be back.Bitches and assholes are always the first to come running/checking back. The girls you most sweated, always the most desperate. Seriously. Revel in that.

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  2. Greg Says:

    Nice points but I’m stuck on the part that says men in their early 40’s are in high demand. I seems to me that the cut-off point for most of the women I see online are either 35 or 38.

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  3. bbdawg Says:

    I am lost on why the blame is on the woman. It sounds like the woman is out of the OP’s league – about 10 years younger and not all that into him. Someone else was on the picture for her. The end. Why the need to admonish her for that? She “aging out of the picture”. Ouuch. Maybe she had better options instead.

    Also, yes the OP should have confirmed as per etiquette, there are just too many flakes around. Here’s the rule of thumb I had for Tinder. A “date” meant we had the day and we had a specific location in advance and we would confirm the day before. If a location hadn’t been set a few days before and you are going to “touch base” the day before in my experience it’s not going to happen. If I were in this woman’s position I would have reached out to confirm the day before, although when I wasn’t all that into a guy I would wait for him to confirm and if he didn’t that would be the easy way out.

    It usually falls to the man to make plans so if the OP isn’t manning up from the start then you just don’t know if he is really interested and you are talking to someone else instead. Tinder is a high volume business, you GOTTA close the deal fast. Don’t leave threads hanging or new matches will take over.

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    • Eli Says:

      Totally agree; she is out of his league and probably found someone she wanted to go out with more that evening, maybe she even preferred the company of her girlfriend! I don’t get the whole “pencil this in” thing and then finalizing the morning of the date. You are a 40-something man, make a plan and stick to it! If she’s stands you up after a firm plan was made, then be annoyed. I disagree this woman did anything wrong–they did NOT have solid and to begin with. If you act flakey, expect flakey responses. Don’t hold someone else accountable for the fact that you wanted a bunch of wiggle room in case YOU wanted to do something else. Uh uh, get it together, man.

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  4. bbdawg Says:

    It’s kind of amazing how men are sometimes bad at closing. I mean it’s not that hard, a woman shows interest, you suggest the day and time a few days before and if she says yes you close on the place so you don’t have to think about it anymore. It’s not that hard. What is annoying is dragging along the wishy-washy walking-on-eggshells female-energy type of guy who is just too flexible and can’t make up his mind. That’s unattractive and it reads as lack of interest.

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    • The D-man Says:

      I’m very specific about time and location, and always follow up the morning of, but I still run into flakes. Thems the breaks.

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  5. ATWYSingle Says:

    I am lost on why the blame is on the woman.

    Of course you are, because you ARE this woman. He did confirm at a reasonable time, and she had the ability to confirm with him before she made her imaginary plans with her friend. That’s what reasonable and mature people do. The shit she pulled is bush league entitlement.

    Tinder is a high volume business, you GOTTA close the deal fast. Don’t leave threads hanging or new matches will take over.

    Yes, exactly, which is why how she played it is a fail. Shit tests like this almost always blow up in a person’s face, something you clearly haven’t figured out yet.

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    • bbdawg Says:

      Seriously Moxie, she is the one who rejected this guy and yet the story is being told as if she is the one at a loss??? Why? You seem to consistently hate women, and I don’t really know why.

      This wasn’t a “shit test”. This woman wasn’t interested in him to begin with, probably because he sounded uninterested/wishy-washy and she felt she could do better otherwise. She matched with other guys in the mean time who showed real interest and made actual plans/were younger, etc…

      If his had been a female reader writing you would have admonished her for having expectations and not knowing her out-of-her-league “place” and now that it’s a man, the woman is also to blame…hmmmm…why is it always the woman’s fault?

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      • maria Says:

        while I agree that she wasn’t interested in him, I think what she did was a dick move, and not very nice. I really do think in this case it was her fault. I would have respected her more had she texted him the night before and said that she wasn’t feeling well and couldn’t go out, not blamed him for not wanting to date him. that is why its a dick move, because she made it like it was his fault and was fucking with his head and playing games.

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        • yb Says:

          not a dick move. she accepted to meet him on thursday and he “penciled” her in! that’s the dick move.

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        • Kurt Says:

          I’m a guy and I don’t see why the woman is being blamed here. If I were her, I would find it irritating if a guy only penciled me in for a date and failed to confirm in the morning the day of like he said he would. When I was trying to date in search of a relationship, I absolutely hated it when women would engage in flaky behavior like this.

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      • ATWYSingle Says:

        This woman wasn’t interested in him to begin with, probably because he sounded uninterested/wishy-washy and she felt she could do better otherwise.

        Then why did she say, “Sounds good!” when he said suggested they “pencil” in the Thursday date? If she’s so offended, why not just decline the date? Why not just make up an excuse not to go right then and there or a day later or even the night before the date? While I agree that “pencil it in” is not the best choice of words, it’s all about context. I’m not going to get my nose bent out of a joint because of a phrase if everything else is okay. That’s an example of looking for reasons to be offended. And, no, if the genders were reversed, I’d have the exact same response, because rude is rude and a game is a game. He said he’d confirm Thursday morning, he confirmed at 12:30 for plans likely 6-8 hours later. It’s not like he confirmed at 4pm..which is when she decided to respond.

        I don’t hate women. I dislike women like you who are so fucking entitled that you make us all look bad. You have your head so far up your own ass you don’t even hear how almost everything you say is some wacked out rationalization for being an asshole, and you’re blind to the fact that you have a chip on your shoulder where men, sex, and dating are concerned.

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        • yb Says:

          omg. because it was easier to say “sounds good”. not only did he use “pencil in” he then waited until the last acceptable minute to confirm. its too early to start with this crap. she bailed. doesn’t make her the bad guy that she was lukewarm at best to start with. she made a choice. next.

          you make yourself look bad when you try to recycle a date then accuse him of masturbating to your photos. seriously. delusional much?

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          • ATWYSingle Says:

            It doesn’t make her bad at all if she was luke warm and accepted a date, but it does make her the bad guy if she intentionally dragged that out knowing she’d probably cancel. If she wasn’t feeling it, then she easily could have contacted him on Thursday.

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            • yb Says:

              yeah. so she did the exact same thing he did. hardly a reason for a your rant.

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    • maria Says:

      while I agree it was a dick move on her part, I don’t think for a minute she was testing him. I think she just wasn’t interested, and the closer the date got, the less interested she became and was looking for any excuse to get out of the date. Him not confirming with her was that excuse. I don’t think she will be back. I do think she was a complete jerk to do that, but if she didn’t want to go on the date, then she shouldn’t be forced to go on the date. If she was interested or even remotely excited about meeting him, she would have suggested an alternative day. it was a clear cut blow off.

      I had this happen to me once, but not on a date, with a friend. we made concrete plans to hang out, picked a time and a place the night before, and while I was on my way there, asking her where she was she’s like, oh, you didn’t confirm with me this morning so I didn’t come. no text or phone call to say hey are we still meeting? who does that shit? it was nothing more than an excuse to not go out, and to blow me off, same as what this woman did to the OP. our friendship fizzled after that, as I was upset and stopped trying to keep in touch.

      OP if I was you, I would NOT pursue this woman any longer. she is not interested, but if you chase her she might pull this nonsense on you again because you will have set the precedent that she can treat you however she wants. I realize you want to date her because she’s hot and young, but it won’t lead to anything good.

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  6. LilyPad Says:

    I feel like at my 25yrs this behavior is done for. It is so much easier to send a confirmation text before the date. Same thing goes for sending the thank you text after the date. I agree though that the “pencil-in” would have annoyed me but it bugs me when friends do that too. But still, asshole.

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  7. arabella Says:

    It’s the guy’s fault. He could have emailed her the say before to confirm with time and place bit instead he waited until the last minute. He book ended her, which is not alpha at all. Plus, he wrote “are we still on for tonight?” Which suggests that he is ambivalent about her. Confident men who are really “in” to a woman will say things like “hey look forward to seeing you tonight. How about 6pm diner at the W Hotel?” Instead he wanted her to take the lead, which is not romantic at all. Good for her. She dodged a bullet by dumping this wishy washy, feminine energy dude.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      So, to you, “feminine energy” means “weak.” That’s interesting and explains a lot. Are you at all embarrassed by your internalized misogyny or nah?

      He book ended her, which is not alpha at all. Plus, he wrote “are we still on for tonight?”

      To book end someone means to schedule them between or before other appointments. Just for future reference. That’s not what he did. And any woman who uses the term “alpha” to describe the type of man she wants outs herself as someone with questionable taste in men.

      He communicated to her that he’d confirm Thursday morning. He shouldn’t have to confirm the day before if he said that. Okay, so he missed “morning” by about 45 minutes. If you’re someone that rigid, you deserve to be alone.

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      • arabella Says:

        Both male and female energy are equal and have their strengths but they are different strengths. A woman will never be a man do why try? Let the man be the male energy. Relationships flow smoothly that way. I would rather be alone then be in a relationTship with a man who is ambivalent about me and does not express how much he loves and cherishes me

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      • arabella Says:

        Whats wrong with an alpha male? They know what they want, they are assertive about it and are unwavering. I think you may have penis envy, which will make holding onto a man very hard for u. This girl didnt pull a dick move b/c she doesnt have a dick. She just decided she didnt want to go out with a guy he didnt have a plan. Its not a date unless the guy communicates time, date and place. Thats common courtesy. This guy has no home training. Evidently, his mother wasnt the type to arrange play dates when he was a tot.

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  8. arabella Says:

    No matter a woman’s age, don’t settle for guys who are not madly in love with you. Hold out for guys who are crazy about you and who take the initiative.

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    • maria Says:

      madly in love on a first date? jesus

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      • D. Says:

        Correction: before a first date.

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      • arabella Says:

        You are either a man’s type or you are not
        If you are not his type, there is no amount of time you can spend with him to convince him to love you. He either loves u at first site or he never will

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        • Rosie Says:

          I’m hoping you meant “like” or even “lust” at first sight. That’s what you meant, right? Do you seriously have to fall in love with a dude at first sight for the relationship to move forward?
          I had a horrible first date with my ex-husband. Ended up going on a second, and a third, etc. We were married and had a kid. (Hmmm, maybe he’s my ex cause we didn’t fall in love on our first date. Nah!)

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  9. D. Says:

    Two thoughts:

    1. She wasn’t all that interested to begin with, I’m guessing. If she was, she’d have made time to see you. Sure, her life could be “OMG Sooooo busy” that she had 15 offers and when you didn’t text her by 11:59 she scheduled with someone else, or whatever, but bottom line, if she really was that keen to go out with you that night, she’d have kept things open. She didn’t. Take note.

    2. Unless you’re capable of/interested in just kinda half-assing it with her, I wouldn’t bother going out with her if she gets in touch with you. Why? See above: she’s not that interested. You seem more invested than she does, and I expect she’ll eventually bail again. If you do go out with her, don’t prioritize her. Although, that’ll probably lead to her fizzling/bailing anyway, so, why bother?

    Don’t let this get you down, though. Some folks are just flaky in the online dating context. When they self-select out of your dating pool for you, they’re doing you a favor.

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    • Lisa Says:

      Maybe but it can also be off-putting for a person genuinely looking fwd to a first date to have all communication completely stop once the date is set up. She might have even thought he had forgotten about the date or changed his mind, especially when she noticed he was still logging onto the site.

      Her feelings might have been hurt.

      I know, from reading this blog, that “no texts after date is set” is a fairly common practice. But, honestly, if I had not read that here and if it had happened to me, I might feel uncertain as to the guy’s intentions.

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      • D. Says:

        Ok, two things.

        1. Her feelings might have been hurt? Are you sure you don’t mean “her expectations might not have been met”? Because that seems a lot more likely than that her feelings were hurt. To me, saying “my feelings were hurt” means something like “You were rude/offensive/mean to me,” and quite simply, no sane, rational person would think that a lessening in constant communication after a date is set up would lead to that. Now, if you mean “her expectations weren’t met,” that could be the case, and I could see where her expectations not being met might lead to her losing interest. I should note that I’m not saying I think those expectations are themselves entirely reasonable, but I recognize that not everyone sees that issue the same way.

        2. HOWEVER, even if that’s the case, it still doesn’t excuse canceling at the last minute. That’s just flat-out rude and self-absorbed. You want to cancel, do it the night before if you know that you’re no longer interested enough by that point. At least give the guy half a chance to set up something else, or to not orient his day around his evening plans. I expect his circumstances, however, never even crossed her mind. So, she canceled some 2-ish hours before the date, when it’s probably too late for him to do anything else, and didn’t really think much of it. That’s just shitty, self-absorbed behavior. There isn’t really an excuse for it. Now, sometimes people can be kinda self absorbed. But when that happens, at the very least, they should admit it to themselves instead of trying to justify it by saying things like “But he made me feel bad when he didn’t text me after setting up the date, so it’s ok that I canceled at the 11th hour and wasted his time.”

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  10. Yvonne Says:

    The woman doesn’t sound that interested to me, but I don’t think that makes her an asshole. And hey, Mr. “Tired of Games”, if you are so tired of games, then don’t play them. The idea that one needs to “pencil in” a date that is only 3 days out would seriously bug me, unless there were extenuating circumstances. If you want to make a date with a woman, make a date, don’t go all wishy-washy on penciling in and confirming that morning (last minute), IF you are both still available.

    Make the date, and then confirm that morning, as a gesture of interest and politeness. Yes, 12:30 is only a half hour later, but it just adds to the ambivalence/game playing the way the entire date was set up. If he is the one who suggests “penciling in”, then he is the one who should confirm first.

    I agree that if this woman was more than 8-10 years younger, you could be playing out of your league. Why is she “aging out” of her window any more than he is?

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    • yb Says:

      exactly.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      And hey, Mr. “Tired of Games”, if you are so tired of games, then don’t play them.

      Okay. Let’s say, for shits and giggle, that she wasn’t all that interested in him. How is the way she handled this not a game? Actually, even if she was interested in him, how is the way she responded to him not a game?

      I really shouldn’t be surprised to see all the mental gymnastics some of the women in this thread are doing in order to defend the woman, but I am.

      She set the guy up to fail, then when he did, she punished him for it.

      This is yet another instance of how people know what the right thing to do is, and would do it in any other social situation, but refuse to do it when dating. We all know that in any other situation, she would have followed up with the person to see if plans were still on.

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      • Yvonne Says:

        The OP wrote:”However, over the past few months a similar situation occurred with three different women, and I’d like to know if my actions and expectations were unreasonable.” You are overlooking the fact that this is something has has happened to him 3 times. Are all 3 women assholes? You seem convinced that a guy his age can do no wrong, being the hot property that he is.

        My point is that the way he is setting up dates – in a non-assertive and unclear manner – is working against him, no matter how in demand he supposedly is.

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        • ATWYSingle Says:

          I didn’t overlook it. What he describes is something extremely common. I have heard many men and women tell this exact same story. That’s why it didn’t read as off to me. It also didn’t raise a red flag BECAUSE HE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING EGREGIOUSLY WRONG. He set an expectation and he basically met it, give or take a half an hour depending on how you define “morning.”

          Yes, if all three women turned it around and made it his fault when really they just got a better offer, they’re assholes. They’d still be assholes if they cancelled, but they’d be HUGE assholes if they pulled this sort of passive aggressive bullshit.

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          • Yvonne Says:

            The OP wrote, “I suggested meeting for after-work drinks, indicating I was available Tuesday and possibly Thursday. She chose Thursday, so I messaged that we should ‘pencil Thursday in’ and confirm that morning. She messaged back ‘Sounds good!’.”

            Thursday was good for her, but a “possibility” for him, even though he suggested it. Therefore the ball was in his court to get back to her ASAP with his schedule. IMO, Thursday morning is really a little bit too late to expect a virtual stranger to keep their schedule open. Did he really only clear his schedule at 12:30 on Thursday, or did he just not bother to contact her sooner? Again, it’s all on his terms, so just who is the passive-aggressive one here?

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            • Rosie Says:

              My only question is why did he wait until 4pm to reply back? Why not just reply right away and let the dude make other plans?

              I’m way past my prime here (38 and have a kid-I know, I know I’ll die alone!) but I would have just either cancelled the next day for the Thursday date, OR I wouldn’t have agreed to meet him at all, if the “pencil it in” comment offended me.

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  11. Lisa Says:

    I agree that the woman was busting the LW’s balls. And overly rigid. No argument there. How interested was she? No way to tell. Some ppl are very interested but they will stand on ceremony over something small, interest be damned, just on principle.

    But where I differ from the ATWYS crowd is on the little/no contact after setting up the date rule.

    I think that’s been drilled into ppl’s heads too much. In most cases, there is nothing wrong w/ communicating after the date has been set up. It can actually build the momentum and allow the two ppl to feel more friendly and comfortable w/ one another on the date. And it eliminates issues like this; if they had been casually chit chatting in the days leading up to the date, it would have been clear the date was on.

    I’m not saying ppl should be blowing up each other’s phones prior to the first date. But they shouldn’t deliberately avoid it, either IMO. I think all of these directives to ABSOLUTELY NOT TALK before the date creates a kind of cold, detached vibe where there shouldn’t be.

    In this case, a little contact before the date would have saved the date.

    But was the date worth saving? IDK. But why can’t the LW just swallow his pride and reach out, if he is still interested?

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    • bbdawg Says:

      It sounds like the OP did NOT actually set up the date. He just said “let’s pencil it in”, which to me does not sound like a date, not for Tinder, where people drop in and out quickly. He did not confirm a location, so it sounds like they did not actually have a date set up, just a loose conversation. And like Yvonne said below, if this has happened 3 TIMES to the OP that can’t just be that the three women are all magically “assholes”, he must be doing something wrong.

      The solution to this is to suggest and close on a location immediately after the woman agrees with the day and time. And confirm the day before – not in the morning/lunch time.

      When I was on Tinder everything was soooo casual that when men were unwilling to make a date i assumed they were either flakes or uninterested. Neither of which are positive. I’d meet the guys who made firm plans and showed real interest.

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    • Lucy Says:

      I agree. It’s about acting naturally. Though you wouldn’t want to, as you implied, talk too much and build too much expectation before the date.

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  12. Yvonne Says:

    Let’s also not forget that he says this has happened to him with THREE different women over the past few months, so it is not just this particular woman. I think that making dates more assertively on his end would help to clear up misunderstandings and ambivalence. If either party is ambivalent, then maybe the date shouldn’t happen.

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    • BostonRobin Says:

      Exactly. This keeps happening to him. Who “pencils in” first dates? How hard is it to say X bar at X time/date. Confirm that morning. Done.

      The LW sounds like a lot of work. He said he’d get in touch that morning but didn’t. Okay, so maybe she seems rigid for holding him to his word (really?) or maybe she thought he was flaky or playing some PUA games.

      The fact that he keeps losing at this game suggest that it’s a losing strategy…

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      • maria Says:

        yeah, that is true, I can’t tell by his letter if he set up a date–confirmed place and time or if he was just gonna “get back to her” that morning–I didn’t assume that because it makes no sense to me. Guys usually tell you where and when they want to meet the day they ask you out. If he kinda left her hanging come thursday 1230, I guess I don’t really blame her for bailing. I thought they had a time and place set up but she just wanted extra confirmation. I also agree “penciling in” isn’t the nicest way to ask a woman on a date.

        I also missed the part where he said that this has happened to him three times. if this happened to him 3 times then he is definitely doing something wrong when setting up dates. i really do like when a man will do a little research and tell you a specific time and place to meet him. If i was her i’d assume he didn’t really care much/was ambivalent about the date. add to that her ambivalence and I guess I can see why things happened this way.

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        • Lucy Says:

          Yes using the term ‘pencilling in’ sounds like you’re a last minute concern. He could just say that he needs to check when he’s free as he has a busy week at work or something bland like that. Some people are genuinely busy and don’t often know their plans until nearer the time but there are different ways to get across.

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  13. Jack Says:

    The OP messed up when he just said we will pencil the date for Thursday and confirm in the morning. You know what that sounds like? We may have a date and I will text to confirm. Of course, the woman is going to assume there are no concrete plans. OP, when you make a date you agree on the date and time and say sounds good and look forward to seeing you. You lock it down. Then, if you want to confirm, you do it the preceding evening by the latest. You don’t wait until 12:30 p.m. the day of. Sorry, but this is weak.

    Now, regarding the high maintenance and drama. A few months ago, I met this woman online and we went one time. A few months later I texted her and she suggested that we get together next time I am in her area. On a Thursday, I texted her and told her I would be in her area that upcoming Tuesday. We set a date for that Tuesday, and I locked it down. According to her, she was very excited to see me again.

    Monday rolls around, and I send her a confirmation text that evening. Guess what happens? She texts me Tuesday morning cancelling because I did not text her in between the time we set up the date and she was sick of dating. I told her she was the one who wanted to go out and she could do whatever she wanted. She changed her mind and we had a wonderful time. We briefly dated, but there was so a lot of drama and she was very high maintenance. For example, on one date, I told her I had a gift for her. It was a long day at work and I was exhausted. So, what happens? I forget to give her the gift. So, minutes after leaving her, she sends me a text telling me how she noticed that I did not give her the gift and that I was trying to use the gift to manipulate her anyway. I apologized, told her I simply forgot and offered to bring it to her home. She just said no, not necessary and told me to go home. After that debacle, I gave up and walked away. This is the scenario I believe that Moxie is referring to.

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    • Rosie Says:

      Damn Jack! But let’s be honest: did you really expect anything other than drama by dating this woman? Hahaha. She showed her true high-maintenance colors right off the bat. And I’m curious- what was the gift? I think that’s sweet, btw.

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      • Jack Says:

        Rosie,we had gone to a gala and I had bid on a spa package (auction) and won. It included a facial, pedicure, hairstyle and hair porducts. I figured it would nice to give it to her since she was stressed in her personal life. Anyway, like I said, I forgot to give the spa basket to her after dinner. She then sent me that nasty text which floored me. If I wanted to manipulate her into seeing me, I am pretty sure I could have done it cheaper and not included dinner. I even tried calling her and she texted me she did not want to talk and to go home. I eventually just mailed it to her. Why you ask? Well, because she acted like a spoiled kid and made a big deal out of it. I didn’t want it anymore.

        After this incident, I am no longer seeing her. I know this, I walked away from the relationship with clean hands. Funny thing is that she still likes my posts and pictures on Facebook.

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  14. SS Says:

    “Over the past few months a similar situation occurred with three different women, and I’d like to know if my actions and expectations were unreasonable.”

    OP: If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always gotten.

    The fact is what you’re doing is not working for you, and therefore if you want different results, you’re going to have to act differently whether you like it or not.

    My 2c? The second you said you were going to “pencil me in” I would have said please don’t bother your pretty little head. Yes it’s online dating. Yes everyone has a bajillion choices. But don’t make me immediately feel like I’m your 98th choice that even THEN just scraped the bottom of the barrel. Puh-leeeze.

    Make the date enthusiastically, and confirm it in good time. I don’t see how this is a big deal – I do that with my friends, why can’t it be done with dates too?

    Then any subsequent bad behavior on a woman’s part is *indeed* all on them and you can walk away with a clear conscience knowing they snoozed and they lost. Next.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      Yeah, “pencil me in” would’ve really turned me off, too.

      Also, while she did cancel, she did suggest meeting another time. So maybe *he* is being difficult by ignoring that suggestion. If he really wanted to meet her he would’ve been more assertive in the first place, or at least gotten a clue and tried a second time with a firm date/time/place.

      Part of being an adult is learning that everyone has different communication styles and expectations. Try to bend if you can, if you care about having someone in your life. If you have to bend too much away from what you feel is reasonable, maybe you just aren’t a match.

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    • mistori Says:

      Then any subsequent bad behavior on a woman’s part is *indeed* all on them and you can walk away with a clear conscience knowing they snoozed and they lost. Next.

      Yes, at least this would clarify it.

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  15. ATWYSingle Says:

    Also conveniently overlooked by the women here is that she waited until 4pm to respond to his text. But that’s not rude or anything. I’m sure there was a problem with her cell signal. Yeah. That explains it. And I call so much bullshit on the women who are pretending like they haven’t pulled this exact same thing on a guy KNOWING they were playing a game. This is totally a thing that happens and we all know it. We’ve all been in that situation where a guy hasn’t confirmed a date to our liking and we’ve lied and said we made plans. Cut the shit, you phonies.

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    • SS Says:

      You’re right her behavior was atrocious – but we can’t change hers, only his :)

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      • arabella Says:

        Her behavior was fine. She is self protective. More women need to protect their heart from men who dont have a plan.

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    • maria Says:

      it just fascinates me to no end that you are ready to crucify this woman and anybody who maybe agrees with what she did (personally I think it was a dick move of her, and immature, and he wasn’t much better not bothering to make concrete plans until 1230 in the afternoon) but you just wrote an article about how you cancelled on a date a couple hours before because you didn’t feel like going, and somehow YOU made “A” come off as the bad guy in that article. it was extremely rude of you to do and a total asshole move yet you are giving yourself a free pass while insulting this woman because she also cancelled a date. maybe, like you, she didn’t feel like going? this man maybe set off some of her alarm bells and she thought it wasn’t worth it? maybe she also had cramps? I will reiterate that the way she did it was immature but she is hardly the first person to cancel a date.
      not only did you cancel on your date, but you are making him out to seem like some kind of degenerate who is masturbating to your photos (the craziest thing I have heard in a long time) when he most likely just landed on your profile by accident or out of boredom. how is op, at 35 years old, “aged out of” acting this way but you somehow aren’t at 45? why even bring age into it at all when clearly, dating takes its toll on all people, of all ages, yourself included.
      can’t you just give OP advice without resorting to completely ridiculous name calling and insulting women when you are just as bad as OP if not worse? you have NO idea if this is even how things went down, OP is filtering things through his lens. underneath all the name calling and your temper flying there is some solid advice, that the OP should move on.
      I have gone on dates not feeling so great, feeling ambivalent because I am a person of my word and two hours won’t kill me. I don’t think all people have to be that way and all are free to cancel dates that’s just the way it goes, but I don’t think calling them assholes and insulting their age, especially when you yourself cancel dates is appropriate.

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      • ATWYSingle Says:

        You tell me how I made A. out to be the bad guy in that post. I blatantly said I was in the wrong for cancelling, said my response to him was snippy and invited his decision not to reschedule on myself, and said:
        I’m not angry at A. He doesn’t owe me anything.

        So, you tell me where I made him out to be the bad guy and tried to shirk the fact that my last minute cancellation was rude. Do it. Point out to me how I in any way presented A. as a bad guy. If he was jerking off to my pics, I don’t find that offensive or wrong. I didn’t say it was gross. I said it because that’s actually something people do, and it wouldn’t be the first time a guy has done it to my pics. I’ve had creeps on that site TELL ME they’re doing it. All I said I wished I had considered that possibility before contacting him. I also said that he was being polite/kind when he rejected me in his message. I also complimented the guy up and down. So where in that post did I make him out to be the bad guy? I took complete responsibility for all of that.

        You’re in a snit because I said this woman had maybe one or two years left before this sort of bullshit will work against her. Fucking get over it. It’s a reality. At 35, women don’t have the luxury of pulling this crap because the men in their target age range are in high demand. That’s just basic common sense.

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        • maria Says:

          ok, so you are allowed to act like a complete asshole because you recognized what you did was kind of shitty but you did it anyway? no, that’s not how it works. You still cancelled on him. end of story. You can tell yourself that what bothered me was the fact that you spoke about her age, but it didn’t–I just think that you know talking about a woman’s age is the best way to get to her so you are playing that card. i could care less about what you said about her age, and I agree that after a certain age guys will tolerate a lot less–there is no disputing that. what pissed me off is your complete hypocrisy and your nasty and vile language against people you don’t even know. that’s it. if OP date was an asshole, and bbdawg is “that girl” what the hell are you?? you are an even bigger asshole because you cancelled on the guy FOR NO REASON what, 3 hours before the date? the woman in OPs story didn’t do anything nearly as fucked up as you and yet she’s an asshole and the commentors who are seeing it from her perspective are “phonies” How do you know the woman in the story felt the same way? Maybe she felt shitty too? No, she was automatically a game player–again if she was a game player what the hell are you? sorry but accusing a man who didn’t want to go out with you of being a lecherous pervert who is only capable of visiting a woman’s profile to jerk off to her pictures is making him look awful–and don’t play naive you did mean that as a dig. what is the title of the article? “Please don’t jerk off to my pictures” get real.

          bottom line is you cancelled your date because you are having a hard time getting over a heartbreak and rejection and simply didn’t feel like going out, (totally valid excuses, nobody should go out if they don’t want to) but other women who do that are assholes and phonies. got it. admitting what you did wasn’t a great thing still doesn’t change the fact that you did it, and have no problems taking a dig at the guy you did it to. I am done with this conversation.

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          • maria Says:

            I just want to clarify something, when I said you cancelled for no reason, I meant there was no emergency that prevented the date. I do still think it was your right to cancel that date even though there was no concrete reason to. Just like I think it was the OP dates right to cancel the date because she didn’t like the fact that the OP didn’t make concrete plans with her sooner–that maybe have been an excuse to get out of the date because, like you, she just didn’t want to go. In my opinion, both you and the OP date did an equally shitty thing both were dick moves. difference being she isn’t here to defend herself

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            • ATWYSingle Says:

              Yeah, there was. I can’t take pain relievers and drink. And I couldn’t not take pain relievers because the pain was that bad. That’s one of the side effects of Vitex. It screws with your period until your cycle adapts. I’d been up since 5am with the cramps and couldn’t get back to sleep. I get very sick with my period sometimes, and once I started with the Vitex, it got worse. Maybe if the pain had tapered off I’d have gone, but I was still very sick at 4 o’clock. But what I didn’t do was turn it around and make it like he did something wrong to justify my rudeness. I took full responsibility for why I cancelled and I apologized like an adult, because that’s what you do when you inconvenience someone.

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          • ATWYSingle Says:

            ok, so you are allowed to act like a complete asshole because you recognized what you did was kind of shitty but you did it anyway?

            What are you even talking about? I didn’t excuse it. I said it was wrong and understood that that’s why he initially didn’t want to reschedule.

            i could care less about what you said about her age

            Really? Because you’ve mentioned it, what, 3 times in the comments in this post and once in the comments of the other post. Oh, and you just said you didn’t care for the fact that i brought up her age. So, clearly that point did bother you. Sowwy. At 35, women don’t get to be so adorably difficult without repercussions.

            you are an even bigger asshole because you cancelled on the guy FOR NO REASON,/i>

            Maybe cramps for you are “no reason” to cancel, but for me, they are. Even if I hadn’t been burned by that guy I still would have cancelled because cramps, for me, are pretty awful and I’m not going to take a pain reliever and then go drink. Did you even read the post?

            sorry but accusing a man who didn’t want to go out with you of being a lecherous pervert who is only capable of visiting a woman’s profile to jerk off to her pictures is making him look awful–and don’t play naive you did mean that as a dig.

            I…didn’t, though? I don’t find masturbation inherently wrong so, it didn’t offend me. It’s when guys *tell me* unprovoked they do it that it becomes creepy creepy. In certain cases, it’s flattering.

            bottom line is you cancelled your date because you are having a hard time getting over a heartbreak and rejection and simply didn’t feel like going out, (totally valid excuses, nobody should go out if they don’t want to) but other women who do that are assholes and phonies

            I ADMITTED I WAS AN ASSHOLE FOR DOING IT. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN SAYING? Canceling a first date is rude no matter what time you do it, depending on the circumstances. If my cramps hadn’t been so bad, I likely would have gone, but they were bad. Listen to yourself.

            The woman in this post is an asshole because the guy said he’d confirm in the morning and she used his “late confirmation” as an excuse to bail when, let’s be honest, he really didn’t do anything wrong. 31 minutes earlier and he’d have met the stated expectation. So, in the 30 minutes she didn’t hear from him, she LEAPT at the opportunity to make plans with someone else? Nope. That never happened. She was being a passive aggressive jerk and putting it on him instead of taking responsibility for herself and just coming up with a lie or going out with him. That’s what makes her a dick. She tried to make him feel bad instead of just being an adult about it. THAT’S WHY SHE’S AN ASSHOLE.

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            • JayD Says:

              Moxie, You did not write that post to admit that you were an asshole. You wrote it to declare your pictures were jerk off worthy and you had no doubt the guy made good use of them.

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              • ATWYSingle Says:

                Let’s say you’re right. (You’re not.) Why does the thought of a woman expressing something like that appear to offend you? Was I comparing myself to other women and implying I was more attractive? No. Was I criticizing a guy for jerking off to my pics? No. So, why so grumpy? Does it offend you (and the other women whining about it)that a woman might find herself jerk off worthy or something?

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                • JayD Says:

                  I was not offended, not the least bit. I was a little amused though the way you came to that thinking. My above comment was merely a matter-of-fact observation.

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              • BTownGirl Says:

                Ohmygod, are you Miss Cleo’s only begotten son or something? Because it’s uncanny that you were able to divine all that.

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            • BTownGirl Says:

              Also, she’s a grown-ass woman who can’t send a text saying, “Hey! Are we on for tonight?”. Someone who isn’t a pain in the ass would assume that the person got caught up at work or something and just check in.

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              • Lucy Says:

                Or maybe she’s just a bit too rigid and wants him to be a bit more on the ball about confirming plans with her to prove his interest? Then when he doesn’t, she thinks he might not be very interested in her and overreacts in this way.

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    • BTownGirl Says:

      YUP! The only time I pulled that, I believe, was at age 24. HELLO. Also, anytime my cell signal has sucked and caused a delay in replying I tell the person that and apologize.

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    • Lucy Says:

      Yes I see what you mean now. I missed the point about replying at 4pm, some hours after he asked about plans. She could have replied saying she was sorry for delaying a response, that she’d made plans but was free another time. So hmm yeah seems like game-playing.

      If hypothetical friend asked about plans, she could have then texted guy to confirm.

      Actually seeing what you are getting at now, Moxie. Helps when you read between the lines!

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    • Kyra Says:

      Now, I’ll absolutely agree that her turning it on him that he didn’t contact her in time for plans is atrocious, but this was on a thursday and it’s possible she didn’t look at her phone at work.

      I know that when I’m at work, my phone goes in my bag on silent and I’ll take it out at my coffee break.

      So I don’t see not contacting him back until 4 p.m. as an issue, but her behaviour and attitude was definitely terrible.

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  16. JayD Says:

    The OP wrote,”I think I already know the answers, but would like your thoughts….”. And Moxie gave him the validation he is seeking – these women are assholes. Booyah.

    “and would also like to see if this is common with other daters.” Yes, if the men in similar criteria do what you do. This has happened to you three times in few months, there will be the 4th, the 5th and many more.

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  17. Lucy Says:

    I haven’t read all comments so will just put down my instinctive reaction. Seems to me if she wasn’t intending on meeting him, she could have been more polite/honest than making out it was his fault for not confirming plans soon enough. Or maybe she really did like him but is overdoing the dating advice? I’ve just seen some advice before telling me not to accept last minute invitations/confirmations of plans and that sort of thing so the bloke can’t use you and have the upper hand. However I just think if you take this advice too literally it can make you a bit rigid. You can be flexible but not be a walkover. if you’re refusing a date you want to go on, just to prove a point, then you’re only harming yourself. I genuinely think I possibly have disregarded some men in the past due a silly nuance which is a real shame. In summary, my only dating advice now is to use my common sense and intuition regarding boundaries.

    OP can just put this one down to experience and move on to someone else. Who knows? She may come back and he may have changed his mind by then.

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  18. I'mnoexpert Says:

    In all honesty, this women could be me…but I really don’t think it is. However, being on dating sites when someone says when are you free and gives me two days I pick one and they said okay I’ll “Pencil you in” I don’t consider that a date. I will reply “sounds good” b/c at that time I don’t have any other plans. It’s seem like he must have asked this question on a Sunday, giving Tuesday or Thursday as his options. Tuesday didn’t work for her.
    He said he would confirm Thursday morning. He didn’t period. Between Sunday and Thursday lots of things can be planned and come up especially in NYC. So many people flake on dating Sites that not hearing from someone who “penciled me in” I would have thought he is serious and made other plans.
    Not responding till 4pm, she may have been in meetings a work and just got the message then. Did she owe him any reason for her delayed response? 100% no, just like he didn’t offer any reason for his non-morning confirmation.
    My guess, since this is all about assuming the other persons motives, he had several plans for Thursday night, they didn’t pan out that morning so he reached out to his last option. She turned him down. Both played games, both are assholes. Maybe they should get together seems like they both are actually very similar. :)

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  19. Craig Says:

    My take on this is similar to Moxie’s. The dude confirmed at around 12 in the afternoon. The nonsense about making other plans because he hadn’t checked in by morning is absurd. The truth is the chick changed her mind or got a better offer. He’s lucky she even responded at all. I had this happen to me several times when I was online dating – I even timely reached out to confirm the scheduled day of the date and never heard from the woman again on two occasions.

    It’s all part of the typical flakiness that occurs when online dating. It’s frustrating. But when this happens to men or women, I agree with Moxie that it should not be viewed as a missed opportunity. It be viewed as a dodged bullet.

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    • AC Says:

      A thumbs down party on all the posts point out the absurdity of this woman’s about not checking in by 12:00…I wonder why that is?

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  20. AC Says:

    Moxie is 100% spot on.

    First off, the assumption that just because this OP is 45 and the woman is 30-something that she’s out of his league is at best presumptuous, at worst moronic. Truth is, none of us have any idea if this is true. In short, it’s an erroneous conclusion.

    The point is the way this woman handled the situation was a dick move.

    Let’s say she wasn’t that interested and did find a better option…make up an excuse. Putting the onus back on the guy is tantamount to the way douche-bag guys behave when they guilt women into having dinner at their place on the first or second date.

    The only thing the OP may have done wrong is perhaps wait a little too long to confirm the date. Especially on Tinder (which is a flakefest to begin with).

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  21. I'mnoexpert Says:

    The guy said he would “pencil her in” everybody who speaks English knows that this means and if not Google it! It means, this is a tentative plan, you say pencil because is can be easily erased! He was using her as a place holder and if nothing better came along he would check in with her.
    Also, this is a typical asshole guy move so that if she dies confront him and is upset he cancelled he can always say it wasn’t definite I was letting you know that morning.
    If this was reversed and it was the girl all upset because she had plans “penciled in” with a guy and she was pissed he canceled, I guarantee the advice would have been to the girl, you can’t be upset about this it was never a date he never commited to the plan and when you tried to confirm he was busy, he wasn’t interested in you to begin with it he would have make concrete plans. Move on.

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    • Mark Says:

      I’m inclined to agree with this line of thought. To most people “pencil in” means tentative. The fact that he waited to a little after noon to confirm anything only reinforced that impression.

      Sorry LW, but you should have made a more definite plan with her (ie Pen in, not pencil in was poor choice of wording). It’s more than likely she thought you were seeing her as an option in case something else didn’t pan out and she was a distant Plan B. The timing of your text only reinforced that impression. So her response to you a little later that day is entirely understandable and not out of line.

      Communicate not so that you can be understood, but so that you can’t be misunderstood.

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    • mistori Says:

      If this was reversed and it was the girl all upset because she had plans “penciled in” with a guy and she was pissed he canceled, I guarantee the advice would have been to the girl, you can’t be upset about this it was never a date he never commited to the plan

      This is so true.
      I believe it all started with the “pencil in” comment. For those of you who think the girl played games or responded too late or was too rigid – I think it all may have been a reaction to the “pencil in” comment. Perhaps an overreaction or inappropriate reaction, but none the less I think it was related. I don’t think her actions can be evaluated in the same way they could be if the date was originally set as definite. We will never know if her response would have been different if he had set up the date differently. So we can’t judge her response as an isolated event in a vacuum. It can only be judged as a response to what was already set in motion.

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  22. Joy Says:

    LOL. Feminazis! Feminazis everywhere!

    I love how women feel so damn fucking entitled. Most of these women who think they deserve “better” and pull this type of shit are a bunch of unattractive, obnoxious losers who’re surely going to overburden the local psychiatric facilities in the near future.

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    • Joey Giraud Says:

      You’re a ditto-head and a potty mouth.

      And you don’t love anything at all.

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    • I'mnoexpert Says:

      You really do sound like a bundle of joy, Joy! Good luck with your dating.

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  23. Joy Says:

    I hope OP follows up with us if he hears from that nightmarish woman, again.

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  24. uesider Says:

    Today I learned that its ok for a woman to flake out on a date at the last minute if she “wasn’t that interested” in the first place.

    Unless you’re 24 and super hot, you’re not that rare of a commodity, ladies. You don’t get to play that game anymore- in fact the reason you’re still single is because you do play games like that.

    You cancel on me? No reschedule, don’t pass go, don’t collect $200. There are simply too many out there to waste time chasing someone who likes to play games.

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    • Lucy Says:

      Sometimes people change their mind. Whilst it’s disappointing for someone to cancel on you, at least they are not deciding to meet you anyway for a fun night out with no intention of it going anywhere. They are not wasting your time.

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  25. Tired of games Says:

    OP here.

    First, I’d like to thank those who read the FACTS presented and provided useful feedback. I get it, the term “pencil in” isn’t popular with women…fair enough.

    OK, for those who commented that my match must have been out on my league, that I play games, that my Mother didn’t raise me right (really, you had to bring by Mom into this?), that I was ambivalent towards my match, etc. Guess what, all those comments were just speculation to support your opinion. None of them were FACT.

    Let’s pick the first speculation, that she must have been out of my league. Am I delusional dating an attractive woman 10 years younger than me? Here are the facts. I’m 6’2″, athletic (play in competitive basketball and softball leagues), reasonably attractive (was a part-time model in my late twenties, mostly catalog work in New York, Milan and Boston), received an MBA on a full academic scholarship, and currently a VP of Marketing at a highly visible Fortune 500 financial services company. Am I’m shooting out of my league? I’m confident that, despite the age difference, an attractive woman in her mid-thirties is in my league.

    Second, as a few pointed out, my only error (and I own it) was messaging her 45 minutes late. I set an expectation that I’d confirm Thursday morning, and missed morning. It was unintentional, unavoidable (work related), but still an error…that’s a fact. Many will say that using the term “pencil in” and/or not specifying time/location was an “error.” It’s an opinion that avoiding the term “pencil in” and/or specifying plans would have produced a better result, and you may be right, but neither were “errors.” I set the expectations that we’d “pencil in” Thursday and confirm in the morning, and she indicated it worked for her.

    THIS IS THE PROBLEM: My match then decided to cancel (she has every right), not inform me she was cancelling (that’s not cool), then waited 4 hours to let me know (that’s punitive). That was Moxie’s feedback, and why she called the woman an asshole.

    So, coincidentally, I matched with another attractive 30-something on Monday this week. She messaged me first (pleasant surprise) and even suggested we meet for a drink Wednesday (today) evening. I said “sounds great.” It’s now 11:30am and “she hasn’t yet locked down a time/location.” Is that a dick move on her part? Would it be cool if I decide I no longer want to meet, wait till she reaches out this afternoon, then send a message at 5pm saying “I made other plans when I didn’t hear from you. Let’s meet another time.” Un, no, that would be a dick move.

    By the way, if I don’t hear from her by noon, I’ll reach out, ask if we’re still on, and suggest meeting at a bar convenient for both of us at 6pm. That’s what adults do. [Mic dropped]

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      I guess my question is why is a 45-year old man so thrown off by a woman canceling a date. Why, because she “blamed” you? Jesus. Who gives a shit, especially if you’re comfortable that you did nothing “wrong.” Are you?

      The whole premise here that something went “wrong” between you two and we must assign blame is completely flawed. Nothing went wrong. Not from her perspective. She didn’t want to go out with you and she accomplished her goal rather effectively. Oh no but the Internet thinks she’s an asshole!!!

      Date canceling is common, as you apparently recognize. In this case, she apparently had the better band. Get over it.

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    • SS Says:

      So in other words you came here for validation rather than advice?

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    • Yvonne Says:

      Your date already had told you that she could make it on Thursday, but for you, Thursday was only a possibility. You then suggested confirming on Thursday morning, but since you were the one who was tentative, it was up to you to get back to her and confirm that the date was on.

      In other words, she was waiting for you to let her know if you could make Thursday, and she wasn’t going to try to track down someone who might have been ambivalent about meeting her, or was perhaps not planning to get back to her at all. From what you indicated in your original letter, she really had no idea why there was a delay.

      If it is a work issue, you need to be clear that the reason you’re not sure is because you might have to work late. When you finally did contact her, there was no apology for the late notice or explanation, i.e.: “Sorry for not getting in touch sooner, but I only just found out that I don’t have to work late today.”

      I’m not sure that you can cancel a date that is only tentative. The date that you have this evening is confirmed, so there is the difference.

      I think sometimes it’s easy to be a little too casual on dating sites with people we don’t actually know, and have no other connection to.

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      • Yvonne Says:

        Also, perhaps her not getting back to you until 4pm was also “unintentional, unavoidable (work related)”.

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          Yup. DMN’s comment hits the nail on the head. So “pencil in” guy and this woman communicate differently and aren’t a match, or she accepted a date with someone else or whatever. So what? I thought the whole point of this blog was to gain the perspective to shake off minor annoyances such as this and keep plugging away.

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          • DrivingMeNutes Says:

            As I always say, just because you’re denied three times, doesn’t make you Jesus.

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      • mistori Says:

        I’m not sure that you can cancel a date that is only tentative.

        Yes, I agree, you can’t cancel something that was tentative – you can only simply fail to make it definite. Penciled in without a time or location is not a definite or scheduled date. Who knows why she did what she did but I think I myself & a lot of women regardless of his or their league might have done the same thing. I think it would be MORE related to a tone set by the initial set up rather than or perhaps compounded by the missing of the morning mark.

        I also agree with DMN. If you are confident you did nothing wrong & she acted inappropriately, then you dodged a bullet. Also, if you think your league is to attract other attractive women in their mid-30’s then you really lost nothing.

        Good luck on tonight’s date.

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    • maria Says:

      You sound very confident in yourself, your dating skills, and you seem to not even question for a minute how you approached her and handled things, so why are you even writing to Moxie? what’s the point? what she did to you wasn’t nice, but shit happens in dating. Honestly, deal with it. People deal with a lot worse. they get stood up, they get walked out on. this wasn’t the end of the world. She cancelled the date on you, she just decided she didn’t want to go. I think you sounded ambivalent about going out with her, but I don’t really think that is wrong or that anybody should clutch their pearls over “pencil you in” I just think she didn’t want to go out with you and used this as an excuse. It isn’t personal, people cancel dates all the time. but it really doesn’t make her an asshole.
      just keep doing you, sounds like you have things figured out.

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    • bbdawg Says:

      LMAO OP so you are doing this YET AGAIN with YET another woman this week…you don’t want to make the HUGE effort to *pick a freakin’ location to meet* a few days in advance because from the tone of your letter it sounds like you want to have the upper hand… the woman who wrote to you first and suggested a day was *possibly* waiting for your turn to do something…so that she’d at least get the sense that you are interested…

      I think women are interpreting your silence as lack of interest and moving on rather quickly before you pick a location the day of. I’d think most women will pick a guy who has showed pro-active interest over someone who is leaving plans to the very last minute regardless of how “hot” he thinks he might be…

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        **I’d think most women will pick a guy who has showed pro-active interest over someone who is leaving plans to the very last minute regardless of how “hot” he thinks he might be…**

        Right. I don’t get people getting so hysterical over this letter. My advice to the OP was, “All else being equal, tweaking this one thing (i.e., communicating better and proactively making plans) just might push things in your favor.” It may not (case by case thing as humans are fickle), but then again it may, and it doesn’t cost anything.

        But no, it has to be that the woman is just such a huge asshole. I didn’t think the OP was an asshole ’til he started ranting in the comments. For shits ‘n giggles, let’s say the woman is a huge asshole. What good does ranting about it do anyone? Dating takes a thick skin. Grow up.

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      • Bill Says:

        OP, IMO, bbdawg hits the nail on the head. The reason you are encountering what otherwise might be considered “flakey” behavior. As the guy, it is up to you to nail down the time and location AND YOU SHOULD DO THIS when you originally set the date, not leave it for the day of.

        It makes it REAL. It allows her to talk about it to her girlfriends and they will ask. A generic somewhere, sometime after work for drinks makes that an awkward, “Well, ok, I’m sure he’ll call you” conversation. Not what you want! You want that conversation with her friends to be completely different… positive and forward thinking.

        And, if work interferes, then communicate accordingly, don’t make it wishy-washy from the beginning. I know, to guys the “I’ll make it if work let’s me” sounds like a polite heads-up, but to women, it sounds like she’s on standby, i.e. not your first choice. THAT is the kiss of death… she will exercise her other options.

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  26. I'mnoexpert Says:

    Wow, OP/Tired of games,

    Your little rant just proved to me who feels entitled here, guess what it not the girl.
    You seem shocked that someone with your pedigree, good looks and awesome job could be canceled on. FYI in NYC every guy describes themselves being just like you. Most own their own company. Key being you wrote your description of who you are.
    You wanted to hear that the girl was the asshole, so I’m glad Moxie told you exactly what you wanted.
    As other pointed out if you thought you did nothing wrong in all these dating delimas then you wouldn’t give two sh*t about it and you would never be writing into a blog asking about it! Plus given all your amazing attributes you would be on to the next one within seconds. This girl and the two prior ones would have been a distant memory.
    This girl dodged the bullet if you ask me.

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    • mistori Says:

      It makes it REAL. It allows her to talk about it to her girlfriends and they will ask. A generic somewhere, sometime after work for drinks makes that an awkward, “Well, ok, I’m sure he’ll call you” conversation. Not what you want! You want that conversation with her friends to be completely different… positive and forward thinking.

      Yes, Bill is right. After that first phone call her girlfriends probably said something negative which probably made her negative & gave her something to stew about until the day of the date. Not ideal in theory perhaps but happens in reality.

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  27. Joy Says:

    Well, Moxie. The comments to this post just proves that your site is being watched by the disaffected XOJane and The Frisky, as well as misc. piranhas whose bullshit you’ve outed. Way to go!

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