A Tinder Match Gone Horribly Wrong

My friend B. is always a fantastic source of stories for this blog. Today, he sent me a group of screenshots of a conversation he had with someone on Tinder.  All seemed to be going well. He showed her pics of his dog. She laughed and said he was cute. Blah blah blah. Love was in the air.

After a handful of exchanges back and forth, B. asks the woman if she’s like to meet in person.

“Sure,” she says. “How about brunch on Sunday?”

“Let’s line up eggs and mimosas for tomorrow,” B. says. “I’m on the UWS. Where will you be starting your day?”

B. does not balk at her request for brunch even though it’s totally nervy on her part. Further demonstrating he’s not a dick, he asks what part of the city she will be in so they can meet somewhere convenient to both of them. Nice, right? B. even picks out a highly rated brunch spot and replies back and suggest they meet there at noon.

But here’s where this conversation goes terribly wrong. Instead of replying and saying yes, she just says this:

“Can you tell me how tall you are?”

Without hesitating, B. replies and says, “Hah. That’s a funny question to get out of the shower to. You first. What’s your bra size?”

“We are not looking for the same thing I’m afraid,” she says. “Good luck on your search.”

Again without missing a beat, B. replies and says, “You too!”

Womp womp. Sad trombone.

“Aww you are not young anymore,” she says, further trying to shame him for something he didn’t even do and wildly oblivious to how she did herself in. “Why are you still looking for casual flings? Doesn’t it get old?”

 

No response from B. He Unmatched her instead.

I suggested to B. that he include his height in his Tinder bio so that he didn’t have to deal with that again. I’ve seen his photos and it’s pretty clear that B. is fairly tall. He’s not 6’2″, but he’s not 5’7″, either. A quick glance at his photos would be able to tell a woman that B. is “tall.” In any case, if that was such a concern for her, she should have asked that question before she agreed to meet for brunch. Well, she shouldn’t have asked that question at all, really. It’s rude. If she’s so resistant to meeting someone who isn’t vertically challenged, then she should stick to swiping left on men who state their height in their bio instead of putting herself in a position to have to ask such an asinine and awkward question.

I have a feeling this woman interpreted B.’s response to be sexual in nature. She didn’t understand that he was actually turning the question around on her with the intention of proving a point. A point she clearly missed. He was showing her how it felt to have your value resorted to a number.

Weight, age, height, salary. These are all things that many of us use to determine whether or not someone is a suitable romantic partner. At any given time, one of these factors is either working in our favor or being used against us. There are arguments for and against why this is problematic. The one thing we can equivocally agree to is that when they are utilized to rule us out, it sucks. Especially because we really can’t do anything to change those criteria. Could we get a better job or lose weight? Sure. But things like that take time. There’s no quick fix for them. Forget about height and age; those criteria are fixed.

Asking B. what his height was is no different than requesting additional photos from someone. Receiving such an inquiry or request never makes a person feel confident. It leaves them feeling judged and inadequate.

“But maybe she just didn’t want to be surprised on her date!” some of you might say. Oh no. You mean one human being might have to be courteous and polite for an hour to another human being??? That’s TERRIBLE. Suck. It. Up.

I certainly understand why something like a man’s height or a woman’s weight matters. I’m not saying that B.’s match is being shallow or entitled, or that men who prefer women of a certain body type are all sexist pigs. That’s not true. Attraction is attraction. Although, if we are to be honest, a lot of what we find attractive is heavily informed by what society as a whole finds attractive. That’s a whole other conversation.

What I am trying to point out is how unbelievably tactless and rude it is to be so obvious about your requirements and how counter-productive it is to be so rigid.  Here’s the thing: she wouldn’t know the difference between 5’8″ and 5’10, just like a lot of men wouldn’t know the difference between 140 pounds and 170 pounds, and how few folks can tell the difference between 40 and 45. All we have to go on are numbers, numbers that we hear associated with “tall” and “old” and “fat.”

During a training session a few weeks ago I learned I weighed 184 pounds. I’m also going to be 47 in three months. I challenge anybody to look at this picture and say I represent either of those numbers. (Note: Of course there will be some people who will challenge.) This isn’t a case of Everybody Tells Me I look Ten Years Younger-Itis. What I am demonstrating is that people hear those numbers and immediately conjure up an image in their brains of something different.

 

If someone were to tell you they were a size 8 or were 5’11 there would be no way for you to prove they’re telling the truth unless you whipped out a measuring tape on your date or wrestled them to the ground to look at the tag on their dress.

“But what if I want kids??” some guys will ask.

While there are some cases where age does play a valid factor (pregnancy, duh) it shouldn’t automatically be assumed that a woman can’t conceive because she’s not below a certain age. This is another area where people are woefully ignorant. Today’s 39 or 40 or even 42 is not the 39 or 40 or 42 of ten years ago. Educate yourselves. Sheesh.

You might as well stop relying so heavily on numerical digits because they aren’t reliable nor are they an accurate barometer of anything. Like who you like, by all means, but don’t reject someone strictly because of a number.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

Sometimes the love of your life is the love of your life. (R)

@ATWYSingle

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89 Responses to “A Tinder Match Gone Horribly Wrong”

  1. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    Eh. Live by the sword, die by the sword. If you’re using Tinder, you are, by definition, making snap judgments about people based almost entirely on superficial qualities – mostly looks, and exposing yourself to same judgment from others. Kind of like in real life. Except you can’t really tell a person’s height by a photo – it should be included in the text part of the profile. Otherwise, you know, people will assume you’re short, or they may be so bold as to ask if they’re otherwise interested.

    Her question would have turned me off too but I don’t think asking about bra size is the equivalent. She’s probably an idiot (most people are) but I’d be confused by his response too.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 8

    • Yvonne Says:

      I agree with you DMN. He would have been better off asking her if height was an issue for her, instead of shooting off a rude comment of his own. Or if he was offended by the question, he could have simply been the one to turn down the date. Engaging in verbal swordplay with a stranger is a waste of energy.

      In another thread,, Moxie mentioned that some people are not bothering to even post a profile on dating sites. This underscores why that is a bad idea.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 6

      • BTownGirl Says:

        She was so rude though – he’s already agreed to brunch and trying to make meeting up convenient and then she busts out that chestnut of a question. I agree that a comeback (and B, that was a great one) doesn’t solve anything, but we’re all only human here!

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      • morton Says:

        She was uncomfortable not knowing this guy’s height.

        He could tell her approx. weight and body type from her photos.

        People want to have a good idea of what the other person looks like they’re about to meet, that includes height and weight.

        I agree, she should’ve been more tactful with the question and not leave it at the end ?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    • bbdawg Says:

      Completely agree with everything you’ve said. No asking what her bra size is, isn’t the same question as height. Moxie assumes that the woman is the one at a loss here, but I am not sure that is the case.
      Height is not a sexual question. Bra size is. Asking a deal-breaking question (like height) or making annoying requests (men asking for more more pics for example) is a sign of lack of interest. She’s stating her requirements. If he doesn’t meet them she won’t waste her time.

      Any man who has been dating online knows that the moment you bring in sex talk you are risking a quick unmatch/block situation because you are venturing into the “casual sex pest dude” scenario that is so common online and all women either joke about or get really annoyed at because no one wants their time wasted.

      This guy was offended by the question, I get it. Next time he can be a little more mature and spell out his frustration instead of acting passive-aggressive.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 31 Thumb down 26

      • ATWYSingle Says:

        But, she did already waste her time by messaging with him in the first place.

        He wasn’t annoyed. Like DMN, he was turned off. He’d already jumped through hoops, even allowing her to slightly upgrade the date by suggesting brunch instead of just a drink. Which, for those playing at home, is rude.

        Yes, by the time she asked what his height was, he didn’t care if he offended her. He was probably trying to offend her because he was annoyed. But her response to his bra size question was just another test and was passive aggressive. She thought if she pretended to bail he’d apologize and work harder. When he didn’t, she started in with his age and accused him of something she didn’t even know for a fact he was doing. He’s the one who dodged a bullet. She’s a child.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 15

        • bbdawg Says:

          She wasn’t into him. If you connect with someone you like online you don’t make it difficult for them…in fact, you try to be as accommodating as possible…unless she felt he was below her league (not interested in other words).

          Yes it was NOT her turn to suggest brunch and to act like that but no one who is normal or interested is going to risk upsetting someone they like before meeting them. People act like that if they don’t care about the other person very much.

          She’s not interested. It’s like matching with a super hot guy who acts disinterested and is not considerate or thinking of bending your way.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 11

          • ATWYSingle Says:

            If she wasn’t into him she wouldn’t have responded to his last message and tried to shame him into taking her out on a date. That’s why she sent that final obnoxious Message about him being old. she was the one to cancel the date. when he didn’t try and convince her to meet him she realized she overstep your bounds and back pedaled.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 11

          • maria Says:

            not being interested is no excuse for being a rude piece of shit like this woman was. it is so ridiculous to me that people are actually defending her. I will never understand how people have devolved like this when it comes to dating. who the fuck asks “how tall are you” AFTER a date is set? if height is so important, then find a clever way to ask while messaging back and forth BEFORE the date is set, or don’t message someone who doesn’t have their height listed at all. I don’t blame him for his comeback because I would be taken aback if a man asked me that. I am just beyond disgusted by how rude people have become. and then they wonder why they are single? she’s probably going to sob to her friends that she can’t find a man when she is the reason she is single. being a rude asshole does not get you a relationship.

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 39 Thumb down 6

            • BTownGirl Says:

              Amen! Sometimes I can’t believe the extent to which good manners have just gone straight out the window. We’re at the point where I’m thinking, “You know what? They should be teaching Emily Post in high school.”

              Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

              • maria Says:

                people forget that there is another human on the other end of the table when you are dating. I always try to treat my dates like human beings. this means, no rude and mean questions, and if somebody is a jerk to me, I ignore them and move on with my life. I am not implying anybody do anything they aren’t comfortable with, but the person you are dating is a person with feelings and there is no reason to be mean to them for no reason. she had every right to decide to politely cancel the date, or she should have sucked it up and gone out with him no matter how tall he is. she seemed interested in him so what difference would a few hours on a date make? if he was a little person or a dwarf, or extremely short (under 5’5) that would have been obvious in the photos. to reject a perfectly decent man barbecue he’s 5’7 instead of 6’? complete stupidity. sure, she could have decided she wasn’t sexually attracted ON the date, but what harm would a quick date cause? people like this are single for a reason, and will always be single.

                I am 5’8 and have zero issues dating men my height, or even shorter. who gives a shit. the first boy I loved and who broke my heart was about 2 inches shorter than me but he always seemed taller. people with such strict must haves are usually using that as a flimsy excuse to not date at all but that’s a whole other can of worms

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                • BTownGirl Says:

                  Not to go off-topic, but it’s gone way beyond the dating world too. I was walking into the grocery store today behind a woman and her son, who was probably around 8 years old. There was a guy in the store uniform taking a smoke break well away from the door. The little boy goes, “Ewwww! Smoking is so gross!” His mother says, “That’s right! It’s terrible! It’s a stupid thing to do.” Now, of course you want to strongly discourage smoking, but the man was standing WELL within hearing distance of them and looked SO uncomfortable.

                  Once we got into the store, the kid wanders in front and the mother turned around just in time to see me doing the Head Shake of Shame On You. This fool says, “IS THERE A PROBLEM?” I said, “Well, let me say this – if you’re trying to raise a rude, judgmental twit…you’re on the right track. My parents would have made me apologize for shaming an adult in public and privately spoken to me about the dangers of smoking.” and walked off. Generation Special Snowflake, I tell you.

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            • Donnie K Says:

              ” she’s probably going to sob to her friends that she can’t find a man when she is the reason she is single.”

              Bingo..and the story will change how he was some creep that wanted to get laid. The part about he asking his height gets omitted from the story.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4

            • Donnie K Says:

              The only argument that can be made against what Moxie’s friend B did is that maybe…just maybe he could have asked a non-sexual but equally obnoxious question like…how much money do you make?

              B obviously knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he was trying to push the envelope as much as possible without being a pervert.I applaud him for that.

              Being over 40 myself, I’ve found Tinder to be pretty useless and full of flakes. This only reinforces that opinion.

              Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 4

        • morton Says:

          It’s annoying to meet up with someone and for them not to look like you imagined them. That includes height and weight.

          He could see her weight on her photos, I assume. She couldn’t see his height on his photos, so she asked. Maybe she should’ve been a bit more tactful, though. No need to hurt people’s feelings.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

        • morton Says:

          If she knows she’s not into shorter guys, she would’ve wasted more time going on the date.

          She shouldn’t have left the question til the end.

          Women get the short end of the stick on this one, because while a guy has an idea about your body type from your photos, women don’t have the same info about their heights.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

      • uesider Says:

        Height and bra size are in the same classification because they go to attraction. She can’t be attracted to someone shorter than x height, like some men aren’t attracted to very flat chested or very buxom women. They are both preferences, neither is any more or less valid than the other.

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        • No it's not the same Says:

          No.If she asked him how big his member was -then it’d be the same.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

          • No it's not the same Says:

            No.If she asked him how big his member was -then it’d be the same.Both are equally sexual,equally intrusive,equally rude.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

        • morton Says:

          No, height to women would be the equivalent as weight preference to men. Lucky for men, they can see this in the women’s photos.

          The women usually can’t tell a man’s height from their photos.

          Still, some men are not picky about weight, as some women are not picky about height. Other factors also play a part in attraction, of course, such as you love their personality so much, you just click, they’re sexy in a way you find irresistible, intelligence, etc., which can make someone more attractive than others despite less desirable traits otherwise.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    • Dave Says:

      Interesting analogy, DMN. I’ll be 41 in a few weeks and I found Tinder to not quite be my cup of tea and canceled it a while back. I imagine it works great for the younger folks, but encountering the super flakes on there made me greatly appreciate the slightly less flakey people on OkCupid. Then again, I also decided to get back into social dancing to help me prevent online dating burnout…and must admit I’d forgotten how enjoyable it is to meet women in person and get to know them a little on the dance floor. Well except when they step on your toes, but that’s usually forgivable. :D

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    • morton Says:

      he got to see her body type and approx. weight from her photos,

      She couldn’t tell his height from his photos, so she asked.

      I agree that she could’ve been more tactful, and less obvious.

      Asking about her bra size is not the equivalent and her asking his height.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  2. Lucy Says:

    I think she shouldn’t have asked that question. I never ask a guy that (and a lot of guys exaggerate their height online). To me it’s an uncouth thing to mention so I keep my opinions and queries to myself.

    I can see his response was sarcastic and meant to deflect the ridiculousness of her question. Maybe this just didn’t translate well online?

    If a guy queried my weight or my bra size, I’d feel really uncomfortable. I’m a curvy girl and I’d rather not hear things like “I usually go for skinnier but…”, “I prefer chubbier girls…”. Please no reference to my physical appearance. I’m not fat at all but I’m not really skinny either, just have a thicker body type. But yeah I wish people would keep their physical preferences to themselves. If they meet me and don’t find me attractive then they don’t have to see me again but they don’t have to tell me the reason either.

    And yeah I defy to be judged solely on a number. Have to say I admire Kelly Clarkson ’cause she deals well with the crap she gets for not looking like a skinny babe 24/7.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3

    • morton Says:

      Yeah, but the men already have a good idea about your body type and weight from you profile photos.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  3. BTownGirl Says:

    Oy, numbers! I once had go send my measurements for a custom-made dress and the tailor wrote back that I should consider a different neckline, which “she normally recommends for the girls with implants…we don’t want to look slutty!” Errrrr, I don’t have implants and implants don’t equal automatic slut. Girl, bye.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 12

  4. uesider Says:

    Ah yes, it was a test, which he passed with flying colors. Lots of guys put up with this nonsense, which leads some women to believe that what they do is acceptable and not just rude and entitled. He turned it around on her, and yet when she came back for more, still interested (because he stood up to her), he cut her off without even an explanation.

    He wins because he is now free to find someone who doesn’t play baby games.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 14

  5. natalie Says:

    I don’t think asking about his height is a big deal and he definitely overreacted. Yes it would have been nicer maybe if she didn’t ask or asked before making the date, but asking about her bra size was very immature. He may have missed out on a good opportunity by replying in a childish way.

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    • BTownGirl Says:

      How would you feel if a guy who’s seen your pictures and you’re setting up a date with asked how much you weigh? That would be a big deal and beyond rude, right? Would you feel like you lost out on anything by not meeting him? The golden rule goes both ways is what I’m sayin’.

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      • morton Says:

        It’s not the same because he got to see her body type and a pretty good idea about her weight, from her photos.

        She doesn’t have a similar info about his height from his pics.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  6. natalie Says:

    I don’t think it’s the same thing.. You can basically tell someone’s body type from pics but it’s hard to tell height. And I’ve had guys ask me how tall I am and I just answer them honestly, no big deal.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 19

    • BTownGirl Says:

      I think it’s pretty easy to get the basic idea on height from pictures – someone who’s 6′ 2″ looks different even sitting down from someone who’s 5′ 8″. These guys didn’t start scheduling the date and then ask, right? Because the subtext is “I don’t want to waste my time on you if you’re not my physical ideal.”. Shitty manners are shitty manners, period.

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      • Nicki Says:

        I don’t think height is an offensive question at all. I mean, maybe it was her idea of small talk? Who knows. People are dumb. I do not think that bra size is the equivalent comeback for it though.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 14

        • BTownGirl Says:

          I think it’s the timing of it that’s bad – the date was set and then we get “hey, before I commit to meeting up, how tall are you?” Personally, I’m 5′ 1″ and I don’t get offended if I’m speaking to someone in real life and they ask how tall I am. I mean, I’m f*cking short and it doesn’t bother me haha! If B’s date asked the question while they were at brunch, that’s nothing and I would totally put it in the “making conversation” category. The problem, as I see it, is that she made it sound like she had to know before she met him.

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          • Nicki Says:

            I do agree in rereading it that it was very poor timing to ask even if it was small talk. Maybe 2 hours after confirming the date, sure. It seems like he was waiting for her to confirm and that was her reply before confirmation. In which case, poor social skills lol.

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

          • fuzzilla Says:

            **Personally, I’m 5′ 1″ and I don’t get offended if I’m speaking to someone in real life and they ask how tall I am.**

            Height isn’t a loaded question for women the way it is for men, though; it isn’t typically a disqualifier for women (unless a woman is extremely tall and a guy would feel emasculated by that, but that’s probably pretty rare. I agree that “What do you weigh?” is the equivalent question for women on the rude scale). I suppose it might not be that big a deal to ask *on* the date as part of an otherwise friendly conversation, along the lines of, “Where are you from?”

            I’ve had guys ask for more pictures before. I allowed for the fact that I didn’t have the greatest/clearest pictures on my profile so I went along with it. One guy said, “Do you always wear glasses?” I said, “Yes, does that matter?” Clearly wanting to see makes me undateable. ::eyeroll::

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

            • BTownGirl Says:

              Oh Good God, you’re so cute and clearly look great in glasses – who is this dude?! OY.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

              • fuzzilla Says:

                Thanks. ;o) A guy can not like glasses all he wants, but then…don’t talk to/ask out the chick in glasses, kinda like Moxie’s story.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

        • D. Says:

          Fine. Bra size isn’t the equivalent. Let’s settle on weight then.

          “One thing first. How tall are you?”

          “You first. How much do you weigh?”

          Better?

          Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0

          • DrivingMeNutes Says:

            No. Better would be to say nothing at all and end communications. People may be surprised to know this about me but I try almost at all costs to avoid engaging in debates with assholes and idiots, particularly random people on the internet whom I don’t wish to meet.

            Why spend even 5 minutes crafting a clever comeback to some woman you’ve already decided to blow off. Blow off requires no words – that’s the real beauty of it.

            And if you are engaging with assholes and idiots, then that says something about you. What need are you fulfilling?

            Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 4

            • fuzzilla Says:

              I agree. There are so many idiots out there that conserving your mental and emotional energy is the name of the game if you want to get anywhere in online dating.

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            • D. Says:

              I don’t disagree. I’m more just pointing out that the comment she made is still kind of obnoxious, since some folks seem to want to defend it by noting how his response was somehow out of line.

              That said, I agree that it’s just as easy to roll your eyes and silently unmatch the person.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

        • maria Says:

          if you think that was small talk you are either not very bright or naive. that was a test–she would have cancelled if he was “too short” this woman has zero manners or social skills. there is no difference if the guy asked her “so, can I see more pics?” “so what size bra/dress do you wear?” because they are both used to gauge sexual attraction. period.

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    • The Original D Says:

      Natalie, do you not see the difference between a guy asking you how tall you are, and a woman asking a man that?

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

      • morton Says:

        did you mean “do you not see the difference between a woman asking how tall you are, and a man asking a woman that?”

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    • Fyodor Says:

      Women aren’t evaluated on their height the same way men are. Very few men screen women based on their height and as many screen tall women as short women. A woman asking a man on a dating service how tall he is, is asking “are you too short for me to date?”

      I wouldn’t mind a woman asking me how much I weigh, but I suspect most women would mind a lot.

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  7. Jason Says:

    I would have just andwered the question truthfully. Many women do have height requirements and dont want to waste their time or someone elses. Men have hard-stop requirements as well. That doesn’t make us shallow unless these requirements are coming from the wrong mindset. Besides, it sounds like this guy would have probably met her requirements anyway.

    Theres no reason to be bothered by these types of questions really. Its possible they could have still met up after that question if it was handled correctly and found out they liked each other. Instead they both acted immaturely and ended up without a date.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 9

  8. Dori Says:

    I think that asking about his height was inappropriate, but she could still salvage the situation. After he asked for her bra size she should have said: ‘touché, you won’. Shaming him (assuming she was interested) was really stupid.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2

    • Lisa Says:

      She didn’t realize it was a joke/quip.

      She sounds humorless, uptight and yes, rather tacky. She caused the problem here w/ her tackiness. But imo, he could have also salvaged the situation (if he wanted to) by simply explaining after her misguided little “it’s obvious we aren’t looking for the same thing” comment that he was just joking and giving her a taste of her own medicine.

      Some ppl are very dry and humorless. And those ppl tend to get offended easily, as they cannot laugh at themselves. It is very hard to interact w/ them, especially text/email/etc.

      Years ago I met the male equivalent of this woman. And it was several days of this torture and one very, awkward date. The most awkward online date I had ever been on. If I am ever dating again, I will chalk this kind of stiff, humorless personality type up as a red flag. And do what this guy did: disengage. blechhhh

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      • Lisa Says:

        I mean *temporarily* salvaged…

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      • uesider Says:

        That’s the thing, he didn’t want to salvage it. She showed who she was, and he believed her. Can’t say I blame him.

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        • maria Says:

          yup, she’s lucky he didn’t rip her a new one, or just completely ignore her all together. this rudeness is appalling. and people defending her is also appalling. MANNERS. social graces. what happened?

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 5

          • fuzzilla Says:

            **MANNERS. social graces. what happened?**

            I guess what happened is the online dating “shopping cart mentality” – both the sheer number of people you can meet and the fact that you know nothing about them but their profiles causes people to get wrapped up in their own heads and see others more as commodities than people. People tend to be more polite if they don’t click with, say, their sister-in-law’s boss. Meanwhile if NYCGuy2015 is too short (or Gal is too fat), then hey, just send ‘em back like a pair of boots that aren’t the right color because what are the consequences?

            Not to crap on online dating (I met my BF on OKCupid and we’ve been together over a year and live together), but it’s open to the public and you *will* meet idiots there, and their manners might be correspondingly worse simply because the online part puts you at a bit of a remove. Just don’t let them drain your energy and move on ASAP.

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        • Lisa Says:

          Right, prbly smart not to try to salvage this. But ppl like her are everywhere. I once had a supervisor whose “sense of humor was removed at birth,” as everyone in the office said. Even faced-to-face, we’d have these misunderstandings when I was just trying to be funny or friendly. Forget it when we communicated thru email!

          I just mean, sometimes you’re gonna have to deal w/ a humorless, uptight person. They’re not necessarily terrible human beings but they are tiresome. Some skill is required in dealing w/ them.

          But yeah, I’d have passed on that date, too.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    • morton Says:

      He got to see her body type and approx. weight from her photos.

      She couldn’t tell his height from her photos. I think it was okay of her to ask, but she could’ve done it at the beginning, and more tactfully.

      You want to have a pretty good idea of the physical appearance of someone you’re about to meet. This also includes height and weight.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

  9. Nia Says:

    The only thing I would argue here is this: I’m tall (5’10” in my bare feet) and I *do* know the difference between 5’8″ and 5’10”—the difference between me seeing the top of his head and being eye to eye. Heh.

    However, I did date shorter men (I pretty much have to, seeing as both women my height or taller and men over 6″ make up only 5% of the population and are extremely sought after), but the thing is…there’s a hard stop at around 5’7″ for me. NOT because I “want to wear heels”–that’s pretty much out anyway. But because at that height or shorter, the size discrepancy gets to be too much. It’s uncomfortable for both of us. And I’m engaged to a man who’s 5’8 on a good day, so height’s not everything, but it isn’t nothing.

    Now, this lady shouldn’t have waited until after plans were made, but I’ve made that mistake too–getting caught up in the banter, having a long flirtatious conversation, and then “oh crap. what if he’s 5’5″? Crap, how do I ask now?” For the record, I do not, I just went on the date and made my polite excuses if he was too short. But I sort of feel her here. (Only if she’s tall. If she’s short, F*** her.)

    I agree that the “bra size” question was too sexual for his purposes–he muddied the waters and made it hard for him to get his point (which is that asking pointed personal questions about measurements is gauche) across.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 13

    • maria Says:

      “and then “oh crap. what if he’s 5’5″?”

      you suck it up and go on the date OR you politely cancel. you don’t humiliate somebody and put them down for not being “tall enough” or whatever. wow god forbid you go out on a date with a slightly shorter man–kill yourself now, what a tragedy! people in the dating pool today are so rude its so disgusting.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5

      • Nia Says:

        For the record, I distinctly said I DO go on the date and make my polite excuses. I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world to go on a date with someone shorter AND I specified that I am *engaged* to a man about 2 inches shorter than me!! I think perhaps some of these commenters misread my comment here.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    • Fyodor Says:

      “Now, this lady shouldn’t have waited until after plans were made, but I’ve made that mistake too–getting caught up in the banter, having a long flirtatious conversation, and then “oh crap. what if he’s 5’5″?”

      OMG! You’d have to spend TWO HOURS with a SHORT GUY. That would be SO GROSS! You are so brave for not cancelling your dates!

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    • bbdawg Says:

      The whole point of being on Tinder in NYC is that you have to go along for the ride. I met sooo many people and went on tons of dates, if you are going to be really picky about stats that’s not the site for you. I feel like you get a lot of rude behavior so you develop a thick skin on the back and forth stage and there are as many people who are rude on either side you just have to cut them off super early. The minute this woman acted up with the brunch thing, before she said anything about height. I think in some ways men actually put up with it more than women. Although we have to deal with the sex pests.

      If a man asks me my weight it’s an immediate unmatch because no one wants to feel rejected, live. No need to talk back or anything. I can imagine it must suck to be rejected about height, ESPECIALLY if you feel like you were going to have to pay for it.

      I did have this situation twice with super short guys (prob. 5’4″) – and height isn’t a big deal for me – where they asked me to meet them in places they knew well, picked bars that had tables and were sitting down at a table when I met them so they didn’t have to get up when we said hello. I learnt this now, when I see a man sitting down at the table I know right away it’s the shortie trick. The dates weren’t bad though it’s just that they were super short. I am 5’5″ so I don’t worry I always assume that men will always be at least my height but obvs that is not the case.

      It’s part of dating though you can’t control people or make demands on what people are going to be like, you have to just meet them. If I were a man, I’d have to screen people more because if you were going to have to pay, I’d at least want to meet a nice person who is good company. As a woman you have the luxury of being passive. I met an amazing person I fell in love with on Tinder and had no expectations (thought he was ok before meeting, nothing more) but you have to be very open and flexible.

      I can’t help to wonder, still, if the woman in question was a lot younger (10+) than the guy she was meeting or if there was some other issue. Maybe she was indeed “above his league” and felt entitled. Who knows…

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    • Timothy Horrigan Says:

      It is rare for a man of any height to make a fuss over how sort or how tall a woman is.

      No man you want to have anything at all to do with will reject you just because he doesn’t tweet over you. Even the exceptionally tall men don’t mind encountering the few other ladies who are as tall as them.

      This height obsession is one of the reasons why online dating doesn’t work as well as it should: women are filtering out candidates based on a criterion which matters very little in real life, and which will make no difference whatsoever if and when the two of you start to build an ongoing relationship (Case in point: our very tall First Lady Michelle Robinson Obama found both love and good fortune with a partner of average height.) Even if you are actually looking for a basketball player rather than a companion, there are plenty of good basketball players who are of average or even less than average height.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

      • Timothy Horrigan Says:

        It is rare for a man of any height to make a fuss over how short or how tall a woman is.

        No man you want to have anything at all to do with will reject you just because he doesn’t tower over you. Even the exceptionally tall men don’t mind encountering the few other ladies who are as tall as them.

        This height obsession is one of the reasons why online dating doesn’t work as well as it should: women are filtering out candidates based on a criterion which matters very little in real life, and which will make no difference whatsoever if and when the two of you start to build an ongoing relationship (Case in point: our very tall First Lady Michelle Robinson Obama found both love and good fortune with a partner of average height.) Even if you are actually looking for a basketball player rather than a companion, there are plenty of good basketball players who are of average or even less than average height.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  10. Fyodor Says:

    I’d probably have asked about weight rather than bra size. Makes the point more clearly rather than giving her the chance to misinterpret it as a sexual advance.

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    • Dori Says:

      The question about bra size was playful, while the question about weight would not be. And I would think that a lot more women are insecure about their weight than about their bra size.

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    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Bra size was the pitch perfect response. And he did it on his feet.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

  11. D. Says:

    Ok, so, first, yeah, she was rude.

    What’s rude here isn’t just that she asked the question at all, but also when she asked the question. I mean, it’s a silly question to begin with, just like a guy asking a woman how much she weighs would be. You’ve seen the pictures. You know you’re reasonably attracted. Why are you setting this up as a hurdle for the other person to clear? Moreover, why are you setting it up after you’ve already suggested a date yourself?!

    This raises another point, though, which is the mindset of “I don’t want to waste my time if…” I don’t disagree with the words themselves. In general, it’s better to not waste your (or someone else’s) time in dating. But I find that people who most often say this — especially when it’s tied to something like height or weight — are already in a mindset that I refer to as “Defensive Dating.” Basically, they’re walking into each situation assuming that they have to spot the dealbreakers, the disqualifiers, or anything else that may make the date less than stellar. This almost always leads to frustration and failure in dating.

    That’s because Defensive Dating assumes failure from the outset, and it ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. Typically, there are three outcomes from this approach to dating.

    1) You find something wrong with the other person and reject them. Pretty straightforward, but still leaves you on your own.

    2) You are so busy looking for specific problems that you miss some other problem you might otherwise have spotted, if you hadn’t been so focused on the things you thought to look for. In other words, you’re so busy trying to figure out if they trip your typical dealbreakers, that you miss or ignore other red flags.

    3) You do something stupid like this woman did.

    She’ll probably tell herself she dodged a bullet, too, which is the other part of the Defensive Dating problem: it’s self-reinforcing. She found what she sees as a problem (“Ah HA! He only wants sex!”), and will pat herself on the back for having cleverly caught him and thereby spared herself the disappointment. Instead of recognizing how she went wrong here, she’ll assume she went right. Probably all while sipping coffee alone in her apartment the morning she was supposed to go on a date.

    Defensive Dating assumes failure, and usually finds it.

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    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Damn straight. It’s so easy to miss the good when you’re looking for the bad.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  12. mxf Says:

    I’m surprised at the number of defenders this woman is getting, even the somewhat mitigated ones of “she was rude, but…”.

    I also don’t understand why his comeback about her bra size is inherently sexual, and her question about his height is somehow just seen as a practical concern. Of course it’s also sexual, as in, how sexually attractive am I going to find this man. It’s certainly not going to tell her anything about his personality. I’m all for people owning their aesthetic preferences, but let’s just acknowledge that all these preferences are based on sexual attraction, and stop vilifying some and being super tolerant of others.

    He was nicer than I would have been. I would have exaggerated the height to get under her skin (if she’s asking, it’s because she likely has a height minimum requirement) and ended it with, “I’m 6’3”, and every last inch is no longer interested in meeting you. Take care.”

    I mean, unless she was totally lovely leading up to that moment, but it’s hard to imagine this was a situation he wanted to save.

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  13. Jerry Says:

    All to common I’m afraid, and it creates a spiral of angry women looking to take offence at every step to be able to find a reason to reject, enjoy the “you’re not good enough for me” power for a fleeting second, then move on to judging someone else.

    He’s wise to block after the first stupid response.

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  14. jake Says:

    Ha, this post cracked me up. Listen, this woman came across as rude, entitled and a prospective huge pain in the ass. Moxie’s guy friend was nice and even attempted to accomodate her. For example, when she suggested brunch, he attempted to find a highly rated and convenient place to meet. How does she respond? She asks him his height. WTF? At this point, I doubt Moxie’s friend was interested and cared what she thought of him. Hence, the golden response.

    As guys, we have all encountered or tried to date the entitled woman. This is how you respond to them. You simply do not date or engage rude idiots such as this. Even if you do date them, it will be a supreme pain in the ass. Trust me, I have been there.

    I also fail to understand how some of you can defend this woman. Whether Moxie’s friend’s response was appropraite or not, she deserved it. And I beleive the response was appropriate.

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  15. Dori Says:

    Off topic, but this story reminded me of the only time I pulled the ‘we are clearly not looking for the same thing, good luck with your search’ card on a guy

    What happened is that I ended one of the messages in our conversation with ‘8-D’ (big smile, laugh, etc.), to which he replied with ‘(8=D)’ (do I need to explain?)

    To be honest, I was totally at a loss, it was easier to end the conversation than to clarify.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    • Lisa Says:

      That is hilarious!

      But maybe he thought you were going there first and just wanted to be a good sport?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      • Dori Says:

        Yes, he was clearly well-intentioned, but clueless. Too clueless for me to date.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  16. Roxy Says:

    I think B was equally tactless and rude by going to bra size. He stooped to her level with his response.

    If he absolutely had to make a point, his best way to answer it was to say 6’2 then ask her the same question. No matter what she replied he could then say sorry, not interested.

    Drive it home with the same ammunition if it’s that important.

    Otherwise delete without a retort at all.

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    • maria Says:

      I disagree because women are unfairly judged on bra size the same as men are unfairly judged on their height–in both cases. women are NOT judged on their height so it would not have been the same thing. I read it as him wanting to make her feel as shitty as she made him feel by asking that question. men are already paranoid about their height and womens asinine height requirements. what she did was mean spirited and rude and he hit her back in the same exact way.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 7

  17. brahman Says:

    My follow up to her question would have been something ridiculous like, 4’10” – i’d be super curious as to why height is a deal breaker for her, if it is.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

  18. Giacomo Says:

    Mox, ever think about starting your own dating site? I think your straight-forward, no-bs advice is usually right on, and I’d love to meet the kind of woman who avidly reads your blog.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

    • SS Says:

      I can just picture that now:

      “Dear Moxie, I went out with this woman to X restaurant last night”

      Oh funny, I was there last night too…

      “I met her on your website”

      What a coincidence, I was on a date…

      “She wore this AWFUL red dress”

      WAIT…. THAT’S MY FAVORITE THIRD DATE DRESS YOU mo*Th3r**&**!!!!!

      lolololololol

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

  19. Francesca Says:

    I literally cannot with women who shame shorter men. I haven’t fought against weight discrimination just for you to bring in height discrimination, dearest. And some of these ladies call themselves feminists. It’s like, sure! Act all empowered and then want a man who’s bigger than you because patriarchy says so.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

  20. Alexa Says:

    Women who are short are the ones who usually have these silly height requirements. Everyone else knows it’s inconsequential.

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    • BTownGirl Says:

      I’m 5′ 1″ and it doesn’t matter to me, because I’ve yet to meet a man who isn’t taller. So, yeah, not all short women are running around being “silly”. For some reason I tend to get asked out more often by guys who are a foot taller than me, so maybe some tall guys have a preference for shorter women.

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    • cb Says:

      I’m 5 ft 4 in and have never even asked their height. I know tons of taller women with height requirements. I can’t claim to have heard that from shorties like me.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

    • Joey Giraud Says:

      Guy friend for mine, about 5’4″, had a date recently, nice lady of ideal height for him, about 4’11. She rejected him saying she really wanted a much taller man because she felt cursed and wanted better lives for her children.

      Ouch.

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      • BTownGirl Says:

        I shouldn’t laugh…but that’s nuts! My point was that “short women are stupid and do this” was, ironically, stupid and rude. Since she’s helpfully included her picture, I’d say…focus on finding a dentist and a halfway competent colorist before judging anyone on looks.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 20

  21. Bree Says:

    All this talk about women unfairly rejecting shorter men is leading me to believe the majority of men have no issues dating women who are taller than them.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  22. TallJen Says:

    This was a fun thread, had to chime in since I’m in that unique 99th percentile of tall women, I’m 6’1. I tend to be a height snob and only date guys who are right around my height (flat footed) or taller. I also love heels and wear them with whoever I go out with, even if it makes me taller than them. I recognize this severely limits my dating pool, as even guys my height or taller don’t always find tall women attractive.

    Here’s the thing – the Tinder chic was hella awkward in her timing. In all likelihood she was an average sized woman (so maybe 5’4-5’7ish) so he was, based on what the post said about him looking tall-ish in his pics, taller than her.

    My whole thing is, we all like what we like. Some people only date people of a certain race. Some women chase men in a certain income bracket. Some dudes chase big boobs. Height is my thing, and so I disclose mine in my Tinder profile since all of my pics are me solo so you wouldn’t necessarily know I’m an Amazon just from my pics (although the insanely long legs are generally a good clue). I frequently get unmatched by guys on Tinder when they ask about my life or my schedule and it comes up that I, say, have my kids that weekend (unmatch! I’ve had kids with someone else! The horror of it all!), and I’ve unmatched with guys when they’ve told me they’re only 5’8. Before I listed my height on my profile, I had guys unmatch me when they asked how tall I was and I told them. It goes both ways. Some guys are willing to date taller, some are too emasculated by it. I’ve also unmatched with people who talked about how they work a night shift or a weekend shift since I’ve tried dating them in the past, and with my work and custody schedule we literally could never see each other. I don’t think any of us have to justify our dating preferences, but I do think it’s classier to just unmatch someone on there when you find out something about them isn’t what you’re looking for or falls into the total deal breaker category. Or when they act like an ass, as the women in the article did by saving what, for her, was obviously a deal breaker question for after she accepted a date with B.

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  23. abby Says:

    The woman in this article is rude and doesn’t deserve a nice guy. You on the otherhand easily look over your weight and age stated. Must be nice to look at life through rose colored glasses. Keep up the good work!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

  24. Lisa Says:

    Moxie, I applaud you for giving your weight at 184. I didn’t see you giving your height though.

    I had to chuckle at 5’1″ Fuzzilla and her comment that height is not an important issue for her, though. Of course not, you lucky girl!

    I’m 5’10” and weigh a very unhappy 180. Struggling to lose 25 pounds (why is it so easy to put ON weight, and so hard, and long, to take off?).

    I think that B may have been too harsh in his snappy comeback to her though. A “blind date” still takes time for both parties to meet up, money spent for both of them (or for one) when there is absolutely no chance for a connection.

    I, for one, don’t like being an Amazon woman even if the man is delightful, charming, has great FICOs, and a great income. My only criteria is that he be at least 5’9″ tall because I also wear heels.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  25. Jesse Says:

    Moxie — you look pretty damn good to me

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