How Long Will Men Tolerate a Bitchy Woman?

beauty

Name: Hannah
:
Question: Hi Moxie,

I really enjoy your website and your straightforward advice on dating. I’ve read so many of your readers unfortunate experiences when it comes to dating and relationships. People ghosting, not responding, among other things. Although these experiences happen to both men and women, I want to focus my attention on the women, since I am one. I’ve read an OP’s anguish over a man she was seeing for a few weeks only for him to disappear and never to be heard from ever again. Many of us mere mortals have experienced such things. However, I want your take – just because you are very honest and don’t hesitate to tell it like it is, regardless of how hurtful it may be.  Do you feel that if those women looked like Victoria Secret models, would they have gone through the same experiences such as ghosting and rejection as many of the women here? I ask this because I’m very aware that men are all about physical attraction initially, then personality and compatibility. But I’ve always wondered if the initial phase of dating for women would be so much easier if they looked like models. I’m very much aware that relationships do not last because the women are beautiful (think Christie Brinkley or Halle Berry).  And I’m very much aware of some men mistreating their beautiful significant others. I do, however, believe that many of men’s dating deal breakers or red flags are thrown out the window if the woman across from them looks like a Sports Illustrated model. I feel that men will risk a lot to date a woman way out of their league. Do you?

Now, I’m not an unattractive woman, by any means. To be honest with you, I do think I’m beautiful when I look in the mirror. But I can’t help but compare myself to these women when a guy I’m interested in hasn’t asked me out or responded to my text, messages, and so on.  I can’t help but wonder, if I looked like Miranda Kerr or Angelina Jolie (in her prime, of course), would he have already asked me out? I hear so many people giving love and dating advice concerning men losing interest in a beautiful woman even on a first date if she didn’t have a great personality or if they’re not compatible. I just don’t believe that. I know, I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so here’s my main question, if an extremely beautiful woman, whom her date also finds very attractive, possessed a lot of turn offs for that man, would he give up on her so soon? I don’t think he would. He will put up with a lot of shit for a while. What do you think?
Age: 29

I can’t help but wonder, if I looked like Miranda Kerr or Angelina Jolie (in her prime, of course.)

Oh, of course. Because she’s such a hag now, amirite? Like, what are you even implying with this?

I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so here’s my main question, if an extremely beautiful woman, whom her date also finds very attractive, possessed a lot of turn offs for that man, would he give up on her so soon?

I think it depends on the man. I know personally that if I were to go out with a conventionally “hot” man and he turned out to be a turd, I wouldn’t go out with him again. I wouldn’t care what he looked like. I assume confident and secure men feel the same way. Now, weak men? Men who are insecure and need to have a pretty girlfriend to trot around? Yeah, they’ll tolerate quite a bit. Those guys care what people thin. Having an attractive woman on their arm enhances their brand.

The only time I think a guy might tolerate a woman’s bitchy behavior would be if he planned on sleeping with her and never calling her again. That I could see happening a lot.

Here’s the kicker, though: I think women are more likely to tolerate an asshole for longer than they should. Why? Because of intra-gender competition.  Women are raised to compete with each other in a way that men are not. Men also are not pressured to be in a relationship the way women are. Many women feel pressured into staying in unhealthy relationships because they don’t want to be single. Being single – to them – is worse than the dysfunctional relationship.

I believe there are far more women terrified of being single and alone than there are men. Hence why I think it’s more common for women to endure a hot guy’s abysmal personality. Men might give an unpleasant woman one or two dates to turn it around, but after that, they’re not dealing. Nothing – and I mean nothing – turns men off more than not feeling appreciated.

 

Thoughts?

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Sometimes the love of your life is the love of your life. (R)

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28 Responses to “How Long Will Men Tolerate a Bitchy Woman?”

  1. Sarah Says:

    I think the OP is failing to consider that model-looking ladies go out with model-looking men. And there are plenty of both, so no one batting in their league has to put up with much b.s. at all…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 1

    • EANx Says:

      Sometimes but they tend to go even more for the guy with confidence, social skills and who is reasonably fit.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

      • Sarah Says:

        By ‘confidence’ you mean money, right?

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 9

        • EANx Says:

          No, by confidence I mean someone comfortable in their own skin. Someone who has a sense of who he is and where he is going. Someone who will calmly look life in the eye and not flinch. Confidence also doesn’t mean asshole or douche bag.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

          • bbdawg Says:

            In the examples mentioned by the OP, Angelina married Brad Pitt … and Miranda Kerr married Orlando the very attractive wealthy actor and is not dating the billionaire (on paper) Snapchat founder. It *does* take more than just “confidence”. If you look at women who are drop-dead gorgeous like that, they tend to go for men on their level. Pro-athletes, really attractive actors, billionaires, etc…

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  2. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “If an extremely beautiful woman, whom her date also finds very attractive, possessed a lot of turn offs for that man, would he give up on her so soon?”

    Uh, do you really wake up every morning wishing you more attractive so that men would put up with your otherwise insufferable character flaws?

    This is just the other side of the “why don’t women like nice guys” coin.

    Jesus, if you already know you possess “a lot of turn offs” for men that are interfering with your relationships, maybe start working on fixing them rather than worrying about how other women are getting away with it, or wishing men would change.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 1

  3. EANx Says:

    A bitchy woman might be a 9 but poor treatment and bitchiness turns her into a 6 after a few dates. So the 8-9 guys aren’t going to tolerate that. If they can get a non-bitchy 9, why tolerate it? That leaves her social equal a guy who is a 6-7. And yes, the reverse is true, it’s just that men and women find different things attractive and unattractive.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0

    • Zaire Says:

      Exactly. The author is too focused on the looks when at the end of the day it still comes down to character when you are “within your league”. Yes, its true that beautiful people get a way with bad behavior however we also see bad behavior (flaking, not responding, luke warm attitude) with anyone who perceives themselves as “better” than the person they are dating. OP is trying to make it about beauty when a lot of this is common among more average people as well, its human nature to a certain degree. Fact is most of us are not and will never be models so focusing on what they do/don’t get away with is futile and only serves to feed insecurity and feelings of inadequacy (if I looks like HER he would NEVER do that!).

      To Moxie’s point about women tolerating more BS, 1000X yes, guilty as charged. This goes back to that post last week about men being assholes. The assholes act like that because, in their experience, women tend to like them in spite (or worse, because) of it so why change? I have seen numerous girlfriends cling to bad situations for months or years because there was a sliver of hope that things would work out, of course it never did and all they had to show for it was a bitter heartache. My guy friends don’t seem to have this problem, they cut their loses quickly and move on. I admire that a lot.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

      • bbdawg Says:

        An interesting aside about this “league” thing, I once went out with a man I thought was well below my “league” – I assumed he would be one of the unattractive “nice guys” much older than I was, that had “settling” potential (yup I said it lol).

        In person he was more unattractive than in photos, bald, short, with a massive beer gut, and yet, he was incredibly entitled, one of the late 40s guys who only wanted to date 29-year-olds who also had to be doctors or lawyers.

        My point is not all attractive men are entitled and not all “average” guys act “their league”. I have met nicer attractive men than I have on the lower end of the scale,, probably because they aren’t as “angry”. I am sure this is probably true of women as well.

        Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 1

      • fuzzilla Says:

        **Fact is most of us are not and will never be models so focusing on what they do/don’t get away with is futile and only serves to feed insecurity and feelings of inadequacy (if I looks like HER he would NEVER do that!).**

        Yeah, really.

        Also a woman could look like a model and be sweet as pie but still run into lots of assholes. In fact, may run into more assholes than the average gal due to sheer numbers/having more takers.

        Also, yes, women are far more likely to sublimate their actual needs and put up with fuckery in the name of having A Manz to dish about at brunch or whatever.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  4. Brad Says:

    Any pursuit of any bitchy woman (hot or not) is always preducated on sex. Hotness then becomes proportional to the level of agony one will endure to bed said bitch.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

  5. AV Says:

    How long will we put up with a hot woman’s trashy behavior? Not very long. There’s lots of women out there, and so we’re not going to waste our time on someone who isn’t worthy of it. Some might put up with it longer than others depending on the level of thirst and how hot she is, but when it comes to relationships we will pass over the trashy 9 for the sweet feminine 7.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

  6. Bill Says:

    Guys are initially attracted to women based on looks and physical appearance. It’s like a built-in detector that in 5 seconds he knows whether and how badly he wants to sleep with her.

    Her personality (or more accurately, how well their two personalities mesh) determines if, and how long, he wants to stay with her.

    Most guys have had the experience of being willing to do anything to be with a beautiful woman… only to find out she is an abominable human being… and then are willing to do anything to get away from her.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

  7. Selena Says:

    The OP might benefit from examining the qualities SHE looks for in men. Does she value kindness over “hotness”? A laid back “Live and Let Live” attitude over a dynamic “My way is the right way!” attitude?

    In the couples I’ve observed where I perceived one as bitchy or controlling, the other was often a pretty mellow soul. Everyone has their own threshold high maintenance and tolerance for flaws. That may have more to do with personality than looks.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  8. Eliza Says:

    As they say, beauty is skin deep, but rotten is to the core. And I believe that the intelligent men who do not need to showcase a “trophy wife/girlfriend” on their arm to impress others, will be less inclined to put up with nasty, bitchy attitudes–regardless of how gorgeous a woman may be on the surface. You see…people want to surround themselves with positivity, and others that enhance their lives and make them feel better about themselves. Nobody wants to be treated poorly, or manipulated, UNLESS there is some underlying motive there, where a man may tolerate such attitude short-term, just to get something in return…which is usually sex, then they split right away or eventually–when they have had enough. But I would think only a very insecure man, thirty for attention, may put up with such poor treatment to they are not single…a man without options I would think. And yes, women have been raised to be nurturing and probably do get more pressure about not being single…but I see that changing so much…and I’m glad it is. Once a woman is confident in whom she is, and has accepted her life, her decisions (whatever they may lead her), with/without a partner, and she is emotionally and financially secure…she will not allow a man to treat her poorly, especially based on how he looks. However, I do see more pressure for women in their child-bearing years that yearn for a baby–to put up with men that claim they want the same, yet behave like aholes. It’s all about leverage to some degree. But, looks fade…we all age, and all that glitters, is NOT gold.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  9. Thadeus Says:

    I think more the younger crowd tolerates bad boys and b!tches.

    The older crowd will only tolerate it until they what they need, if anything.

    A beautiful 10 can become one once they open their mouths.

    Vice versa? Probably not. Maybe a 1 will become a 5 after saying something cool, but rarely will a 1 ever compete with a 10.

    The 9s and 10s are often used to being the center of attention, and are just as guilty as shooting out of their leagues with folks hotter then they are.

    Ahh…the ironies of life.

    Then the 8s and 9s think settling on a 6 with a personality will make the guy commit easily.

    Life isn’t that simple, now is it ladies?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6

    • Eliza Says:

      No–thought that once too–that the men that may be considered far less attractive and accomplished may be more respectful and kind–nope. Not the case, those men do not make up for their looks at all – with winning personalities or charm. They do not! Actually, some of those men may harbor ill feelings towards ALL women…and since they were rejected in the past – by plenty of women, they may have a deep resentment towards the opposite sex. Once that pressure of being married is lifted…it’s such a grand and liberating feeling! A feeling that you CAN be happy on your terms, and don’t need another person to give you that inner joy! And believe it or not, some people actually seek out the bitches and bad boys–they equate that type of bullshit and rollercoaster ride to fun.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  10. Goldie Says:

    Heh heh, second discussion in two days about beautiful people. I admit I’m out of my depth. I don’t think I’ve ever known any!

    Thing is, though, stunning hot looks are not universal currency. In some circles, intellect, educational credentials etc are valued as much, if not more, than physical appearance. A college dropout that’s a 10 who wants to date a college professor who’s a 5, will be batting out of her league. I’d imagine that in some circles, being a 9 or a 10 probably works against you, even, because of all the stereotypes about 9s and 10s being not too bright, having terrible personalities, etc. Even if you’re not any of those things, people look at you and assume you are, and you’ll have to work hard to disprove the stereotype. Which, I guess, answers OP’s question of “If an extremely beautiful woman, whom her date also finds very attractive, possessed a lot of turn offs for that man, would he give up on her so soon?”. The answer really is “depends”.

    Personally, if I were a 10 (which of course I’m not) and found out that a guy I’m with puts up with my traits that are generally dealbreakers to him, just so that he can keep a 10 in his life, that would probably make me question our whole relationship. I’d feel objectified. It’d mean that he’s keeping me around, not for my company, but as a status symbol, something to tell his grandkids about (“back in 2016, I banged a hot chick”) etc. IOW, as an object.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  11. Hannah Says:

    My question to Moxie was just not men putting up with a beautiful woman who possesses a lot of negative traits. I don’t think most beautiful people are bad people or possess a lot of turn-offs, in general. I was wondering if the common denominator for most men is looks. Is a beautiful woman with a great personality always going to win when competing with an average woman with also a great personality? Let’s say that beautiful woman is also equal to the intelligence, and compatibility of the average woman. Men, who would you choose?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      My question to Moxie was just not men putting up with a beautiful woman who possesses a lot of negative traits

      That was your question almost verbatim.

      Is a beautiful woman with a great personality always going to win when competing with an average woman with also a great personality?

      Seriously? Is this your understanding of attraction? Attraction is subjective. What’s beautiful and interesting to one is ugly and bland to another.

      Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0

      • Bill Says:

        Moxie, I’m with you… from the OP’s letter, the quote below seemed to be the crux:

        “I do, however, believe that many of men’s dating deal breakers or red flags are thrown out the window if the woman across from them looks like a Sports Illustrated model. I feel that men will risk a lot to date a woman way out of their league. Do you?”

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    • mxf Says:

      “win when competing”

      Oy. That’s a lot to unpack in just a few little words.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    • KK Says:

      “Is a beautiful woman with a great personality always going to win when competing with an average woman with also a great personality?”

      Well, if all else is equal, why WOULDN’T a guy choose a beautiful woman over someone who’s average-looking?

      Think about it this way – wouldn’t you prefer a good-looking guy over a not-so good-looking guy if everything else is equal?

      But also. If a guy is more attracted to one woman, he is going to choose her over anyone else. If her personality is awful, he might take awhile to leave, but attraction trumps all. And attraction is not necessarily about looks.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

      • fuzzilla Says:

        **Well, if all else is equal, why WOULDN’T a guy choose a beautiful woman over someone who’s average-looking?**

        Yeah. Although the OP’s point of view kind of assumes that a woman has nothing to offer of value *besides* her looks, that there are no possible “X factors” to attract and keep someone besides looks.

        I can sympathize with the OP’s point of view/confusion, but it’s an attitude it behooves her to dismantle and change.

        Also, I can’t answer a man’s point of view but I’ve definitely dated some super-hot guys who turned out to be turds. Slightly empowering, in a way, to see firsthand that while beauty has power, its power is limited. How someone makes you feel (and consistently, not just for pantsfeels sprints) is generally regarded as the most important quality to look for in a mate.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

        • KK Says:

          i mean, I know plenty of guys who’ve put up with insane behavior from women basically because they felt the woman was ludicrously. HOWEVER. Eventually they got tired of that shit.

          But also. Attraction and “looks” aren’t the same thing. And also, it’s freaking ridiculous to think about what guys would put up with from other women. It is pretty much the greatest way to make yourself go batshit crazy. The only way to cope is to focus on yourself, not what guys want or will put up with.

          And I agree completely how someone CONSISTENTLY makes you feel is the most important thing to look for in a mate.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

          • fuzzilla Says:

            I completely agree, just saying I can see how in the course of living she absorbed the message that all women are valued for is their looks and that if you’re not supermodel hot, you’re just a worthless piece of garbage. (Also agree that dwelling in these thoughts without challenging them is a one-way ticket to Batshitville).

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

  12. Bostonette Says:

    There’s something to be said about even pondering that question. Arent you really saying to yourself “if only I was better looking.” in order to justify the failed dates? It’s hard to look at yourself honestly, none of us fully can. We love to scan the category that fits the solution (preferably the one that’s not pointing to us). My choice would be to sit down with a group of really good friends, have a glass of wine and ask them to be honest about your good and bad qualities. If you don’t like the answer you can at least keep drinking ☺️

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  13. D. Says:

    “So here’s my main question, if an extremely beautiful woman, whom her date also finds very attractive, possessed a lot of turn offs for that man, would he give up on her so soon?”

    Generally speaking? Yeah. He’ll move on.

    Setting aside the whole issue of the widely varying standards of what constitutes beauty, physical attraction alone isn’t usually enough to keep a guy around for very long.

    The bottom line is pretty simple, really: if you’re a pain in the ass, it doesn’t matter how attractive you are. Most guys aren’t going to want to be around you for very long.

    Guys who want long term relationships will bail because who wants to date a pain in the ass long term?

    Guys who just want hot arm candy will bail because even those guys are generally looking for arm candy that doesn’t also irritate them.

    Guys who just want something casual or even just sex will bail because they can probably get what they want with someone who is either equally attractive or not as attractive but a lot more fun to be around.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

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