What’s Wrong With Chasing A Guy?

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Name: Maria

:
Question: I was reading an article from a so called dating expert titled, ‘Are you chasing him and don’t even know it?’ She wrote in her article that if the woman initiates any kind of contact with a guy, as in asking him how he feels, inviting him to come over, then that woman is chasing him.  I have a guy friend, who I’m interested in, but have never opened up to about how I feel. He’ll initiate contact with me once in a while, like texting me to keep in touch or inviting me to lunch. Sometimes, I will initiate contact, too. Don’t you think that if the guy always initiates things, that he’s going to wonder if you’re even interested in him? Does chasing only apply to people dating ? Am I chasing my guy friend if I’m the one always inviting him or texting him?  Some men are shy or lack confidence and don’t really go after the woman they’re really interested in, or is that just wishful thinking from me? And lastly, what is so wrong with the woman being a little more aggressive than the man?
Age: 33

I think that if you have to rationalize your decision to pursue someone that is a clear sign that you are, in fact, chasing them.

You shouldn’t have to convince yourself that it’s okay to make the first move. If you do, take that as a warning sign that things aren’t going to go smoothly.

I am not an advocate of women asking men out. I think women put themselves in very precarious positions by doing so. Why? Because I believe that men are only as interested as their options at the time. I believe most men are less discerning when it comes to dates and sex. Relationships not so much, but certainly when it comes to dates and sex. So what ends up happening is that many women assume that if a guy accepts an invitation that he’s interested and attracted to her. He might be, but I think for most men that attraction is multi-level. There’s the level of attraction required to go on  a date, a level to have sex, and a level to commit, with the latter being the highest level. Meaning, a man is far more particular when choosing a life partner than choosing a sex partner. For many (not all!)  women, I think, there’s just one level. That’s why many women are always asking men they meet online what they do for a living. They won’t even meet them for a drink without ensuring he’s financially stable. Guys? Guys don’t give a shit until things get to a point where they’re investing more than the woman.

Am I chasing my guy friend if I’m the one always inviting him or texting him?

Yes. Absolutely you are chasing him if you always have to initiate, especially if he’s your friend. Women need to stop with the, “But maybe he’s shy” excuse. That’s not a thing. And if that is the case, I can assure you that you do not want to be with that guy. I know men like that and they always end up with domineering and spoiled women who walk all over them. The only women attracted to weak men are insecure women. Any man who can’t ask a woman out is weak. Period.

And lastly, what is so wrong with the woman being a little more aggressive than the man?

There’s nothing wrong with a woman being more assertive. Nothing. But if a woman is prone to being more assertive, then she needs to be with a man who is not threatened or intimidated by that. A guy who can’t even work up the courage to ask a woman out is going to hightail it away from a woman who asserts herself in a relationship. The whole reason I place grit at the top of my must have list because I am a god damn handful. Anybody who chooses to be with me has to have a steel back bone.

If you drop enough bait in the water, he should bite. If he doesn’t, he’s not interested. There’s your answer.

Thoughts?

AndThatsWhyYoureSingle.com

Sometimes the love of your life is the love of your life. (R)

@ATWYSingle

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54 Responses to “What’s Wrong With Chasing A Guy?”

  1. Glazer Says:

    I agree mostly with Moxie, in regards to the younger crowd.

    After 40 or so, men are just as capable of discerning if a woman is relationship/commitment worthy sooner rather then later.

    In other words, things reverse. I can hold off on sex until I determine she’s a good match for me financially and intellectually.

    I actually stopped initiating contact with women but I also have a very in depth profile.

    I get 5-10 messages a week. 1-3 are interesting enough to warrant a response.

    So, in regards to online dating, after 40, I think it’s totally ok for a gal to write a first message.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 21

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    • Yvonne Says:

      This doesn’t make much sense to me. If you find it easier now to discern if a woman is commitment-worthy, then why don’t you just contact her?

      I’m over 50, and I still feel like the men who initiate contact with me are the ones who are most interested. I often get no or lukewarm response if I initiate first. Your statement actually proves the point that if most over-40 man are looking for a relationship, then they will be more discerning and initiate first.

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        This is just assuming what you are trying to prove. Let’s say we grant you your observation that guys who contact you first seem “interested” (duh) and guys that you contact first seem less interested. You still can’t draw conclusions about those guys with whom you don’t interact at all, let alone draw comparisons about their level of interest to the other groups. You simply don’t know.

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    • sandra Says:

      The LW was not inquiring about initiating a first message on a dating site. She was asking about being more assertive / pursuing offline.

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      • Maria Says:

        I guess it really doesn’t matter if it’s online or in person, should we always wait for the guy to make the first move? I just don’t believe that if he’s really interested, he’ll make the first move. Every person is different.

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          Nothing wrong with making your interest known or maybe asking once or twice. If there’s a pattern of you constantly asking with little reciprocation or enthusiasm, then that’s chasing. You wouldn’t do that with friends, either, would you? (Or at least you’d downgrade that friendship a whole lot).

          I originally balked at Moxie’s advice not to initiate, but then I was like, “You know? She’s right, I did end up dating a lot of lukewarm, along-for-the-ride guys back when I was very proactive and sending out tons of messages. So fuck that.” I’d still send out messages occasionally if I felt somebody was too good to pass up, kinda like how lottery tickets aren’t a great investment, but sometimes you get tempted by a really huge pot (and of course you don’t get your hopes up about either).

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          • Goldie Says:

            I chased the guy I ended up marrying; for six months no less. (In my defense, I was 20.) Of course we turned out to be a terrible match. I didn’t know that because I was 20 and stupid, and he probably also didn’t know, and didn’t care, because he’s the kind of guy that goes with the flow. I suspect he ended up marrying me because I had come on so strong, he really did not know what hit him. One minute he was chilling in his dorm watching TV all day and the next he was married and a father of two. We had a few good years here and there, and are on good terms now, but all in all it was a pretty rough marriage. Lesson learned, I never chased anyone again. If they’re not interested, or too shy (or too lazy) to display interest, then it’s not meant to be.

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            • Maria Says:

              So has not chasing a guy more effective for you?

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              • Goldie Says:

                Yes, it has. I’ve had two relationships after my divorce, one kind of toxic, the other one much better than the first but still not sustainable. Both, however, were exponentially better than my marriage. Both times the men initiated and were pretty active in trying to get my attention. Actually make it 2.5, I had a brief relationship in the first year after my divorce with an old friend. He pursued the cr.p out of me. I was very much against it at first, but he kept wooing me all summer long and finally wore me down. What he and I ended up having was, still better than both of our failed marriages, but frankly not by much. We were very good friends (still are friends, as a matter of fact, which hardly ever happens after a breakup) but there was not enough connection for us to be a couple. We had fewer common interests than both of us had expected, and a few pretty heavy core differences. Moral of the story, for a man, chasing an unwilling woman with all you’ve got is not very effective, either. Short-term, you (generic male you) will probably get the woman, so there’s that. But, long-term, there is probably a reason why she was so reluctant in the first place; things are not going to work out.

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  2. Selena Says:

    From the OP’s letter: “I have a guy friend, who I’m interested in, but have never opened up to about how I feel. He’ll initiate contact with me once in a while, like texting me to keep in touch or inviting me to lunch. Sometimes, I will initiate contact, too. Don’t you think that if the guy always initiates things, that he’s going to wonder if you’re even interested in him? ”

    Sounds to me in this case you have reciprocated as much as he has. If he hasn’t wanted to get together with you for more than lunch “once in awhile”… I don’t think becoming more aggressive would make him more interested.

    The world is full of people who are shy, socially awkward /socially anxious. They accept/extend invitations when they feel comfortable with someone. If you have done what you can to make someone feel comfortable with you and they haven’t ever uninitiated anything themselves? They probably won’t.

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  3. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    I agree with Moxie’s initial point that men are generally more likely to pursue (or acquiesce to) a woman even if he is not “all in” in terms of his expected commitment than a women is to pursue (or acquiesce to) a man in the same circumstances. And, it does follow from that difference, that women need to be careful about pursuing because a man may accept the easy offer even if he’s not all that interested.

    It doesn’t follow logically, however, the conclusion that a man who do not pursue must not be interested. There could be a number of reasons including the obvious, he doesn’t think you would return the interest.

    And, the “weak” man vs. “strong” man discussion is disconnected. How people present themselves to the world – especially initially – says nothing about their actual strength of character, or whom they prefer in a partner. A “shy man” can be a misunderstood quietly confident guy and a cocky, “gritty,” brash bully can be (or is even likely to be) an insecure mess inside. And, who is to say that shy men would prefer a shy partner – the piece basically asserts that opposite:, i.e. that weak men end up with strong women. And, so they must be unhappy? It’s like when PUA’s talk about the guy carrying his girlfriend’s purse at the shoe department. Uh, maybe all sides are content with their arrangement? You just don’t like shy guys. That’s okay – doesn’t mean it’s some sort of character defect.

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    • Dave Says:

      +100 – Could not have said it better myself. Don’t ever judge a book by its cover.

      I was at a work function a few days ago that required me to do an impromptu theatrical skit on front of an audience. They wanted it authentic and full of angry emotions – and so I gave them both barrels and quite literally, brought the house down. Afterwards the facilitator said to me “I would have never guessed such an outburst was possible from someone with such a quiet and peaceful demeanor as you appear to have”.

      Shy introvert, my ass. :)

      Regarding the who should ask who out argument (yawn), I think women who ask men out, ie who are not afraid to ignore outdated societal norms are to be commended (I personally think it is sexy as hell, but that’s me).

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  4. Glazer Says:

    Yvonne, at a bare minimum, the woman I’d consider a relationship with are confident and assertive enough to contact me first. That is VERY attractive to me.

    In this manner, I avoid dating out of my league and ‘cold calling’ strangers on the web.

    I avoid fussy and indecisive women.

    I attract women offering sex in exchange for provider milk.

    I negotiate the exchange in a gentle manner.

    I will continue dating doing what works for to get dates with women I would consider sharing my Facebook with and hopefully sex at some point will be icing on the cake.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      **I will continue dating doing what works for to get dates with women I would consider sharing my Facebook with and hopefully sex at some point will be icing on the cake.**

      Do whatever you want, I guess, but you seem to be rather proving the point that women are likely to find guys just out for sex if they initiate.

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  5. Glazer Says:

    Fuzzilla,

    you are almost correct, except it’s the women that contact me first that seem to make sex easier.

    As Moxie stated at some point, quick sex to a man is sometimes an agenda.

    And as D (?) I believe pointed out, if a gal seems to be discussing long term this or that early on, I will definitely not be so hasty to jump in the sack because I’m wary that she has some issues she hopes that a LTR will solve.

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  6. mxf Says:

    I know the OP is talking about an offline situation, but for online, I see a distinction between writing first and asking someone out first. I enjoyed online dating much more when I started sending some messages out. Some guys never wrote back, some wrote back a friendly but not encouraging response (as in, they didn’t further the conversation) and some guys were clearly pleased to have been contacted. I’d let the latter group initiate the actual date, and for the most part, those were good dates – everyone got to feel chosen, not persuaded.

    In the OP’s case, the only advice I would have on the info given is that if she’s created plenty of opportunities for things to take a romantic turn, it’s really unlikely it’s his shyness holding him back. The shy guys I know aren’t hurting for women – they’re non-threatening and get hit on a lot by women who think they’ve stumbled upon a hidden gem that no other woman has properly considered. These guys do alright.

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    • Maria Says:

      The most that I have iniated (I don’t know if that’s a word) with this guy is asking him out to lunch, I haven’t properly asked him out on a date….yet.

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      • Selena Says:

        If he has been out to lunch with you, why do you think he hasn’t properly asked YOU out on a date? Seems like it would be the next logical step for him if he were interested.

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        • Maria Says:

          He has asked me out to see a movie with him, and we have gone out for drinks after. We met through mutual friends about 4 weeks ago, and so far, I’ve really liked him. But we’ll see where it goes in the near future.

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          • fuzzilla Says:

            If it’s only been four weeks and he is asking you out, then it seems like things are going okay and I don’t think you need to be so nervous about who initiates. Plus if you have mutual friends you can probably get some intel from them on how he typically acts in relationships (player, serial monogamist, still pining for his ex-, etc.).

            For all we knew from the letter, this had been dragging on for months or years.

            Also, how can you be so sure how much *you* like him if it’s only been four weeks? Just relax and see how it plays out. Have you been burned by “chasing” guys in the past or something?

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            • fuzzilla Says:

              People will probably say he’s not showing enough interest, and they might have a point, but your comment made the situation sound a lot more promising than originally presented.

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          • ATWYSingle Says:

            Has this guy made any attempt at physical affection? Hand holding, kissing, etc? No, not hugging, because hugging can be platonic. If he hasn’t, he’s not interested. He managed to ask you out once so he’s not shy, either.

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            • Maria Says:

              He’s grabbed my hand while walking and will give me a shoulder rub. Fuzzilla is right, it’s only been a month, I think I’m looking into it too deeply for now. I’ll take it slow with him and see what happens.

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              • ATWYSingle Says:

                expand on that please. What does grab your hand mean? did he hold your hand in the traditional way that couples hold hands or did he just grab your hand to direct you somewhere?

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                • Maria Says:

                  He grabbed my hand and held it the whole time.

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                  • ATWYSingle Says:

                    Do you think maybe this is information you should have included in your letter? The reason you’re spinning your wheels in the comments trying to negate every comment that doesn’t align with your narrative is that you didn’t offer a complete overview of your situation. Okay, so, you’ve gone out twice, he’s held your hand, so what is the problem here? Ask him out. If he hasn’t made any effort to ask you out again, either he’s not getting the feeling that you’re interested or he’s just not interested in seeing you again.

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                    • Maria Says:

                      Not having been in a lot of relationships (I’ve only had 2 boyfriends my whole life), I’m not entirely sure how to proceed with iniating. He’s asked me out, that’s true, but do I wait for him to ask me out again? Is it ok to ask him out? This is a question that 16 year olds will ask, but I’m pretty naïve when it comes to relationships. BTW, why do you seem so pissed?

                      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

            • asker Says:

              What exactly is a platonic hug? I went on two dates with a guy, and he hugged me tight both times. The second time he hugged me tight and fairly long. He even sighed as if he wanted to stay holding me. He kissed me on the cheek at the beginning of the hug. What the hell do you think was that? I am asking because no one ever hugged me that way before, and I come from a culture with a reputation for hugging and touching.

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      “The shy guys I know aren’t hurting for women – they’re non-threatening and get hit on a lot by women who think they’ve stumbled upon a hidden gem that no other woman has properly considered”

      Definitely. It’s not limited to shyness. All women think they have unique taste, some even consciously “date down” or within their perceived league but they all pretty much end up chasing after the same groups of “second tier” guys. Guys do it too, as we discussed on a post the other day. Someone should study this more carefully.

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      • mxf Says:

        Well, #notallwomen yadda yadda.

        But I generally agree with you. I also find this type of person the likeliest to be jealous, interestingly. Like, during the dating phase, they think they’ve “discovered” someone that no one else wants. But in relationship mode, they’re the most guardedly sure that everyone is trying to steal their mate. Maybe it’s the feeling of entitlement that comes with secretly or subconsciously feeling like your partner owes you if you think you can do better.

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  7. Parenting Says:

    I wish they taught the first principal Moxie discussed in high school. I think young women often see the advise not to “chase a guy” as Victorian and anti-feminist not realizing that men aren’t women with penises. I think this disconnect between what women expect out of dating versus what men expect out of dating is a major reason why women so often feel deceived and men think women are “crazy”.

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  8. TL Says:

    I’m willing to ask a woman out for the first date and the second date. If she doesn’t suggest a third date, I ghost.

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    • Yvonne Says:

      Seriously? If you went out with a woman twice, really liked her, and she didn’t ask you out on the third date, you’d disappear?

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      • Goldie Says:

        I’d be curious to know how many of them do ask him out for a third date. Like, what percentage. I’d imagine this would shrink a guy’s dating pool to pretty much nothing. Unless by suggesting a third date he means her saying “we should totally do this again”.

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    • Parenting Says:

      So you only date mind readers?

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    • mxf Says:

      I’m not sure I understand the down votes here. If I’m interested in a guy, and we’ve had two great dates, there is no version of reality where I’m not initiating plans to keep the momentum going. I mean, at a certain point, the dates make themselves through the conversations you have – “that movie looks great, we should go,” “no, I haven’t tried that restaurant but I keep meaning to, we should go,” “, we should go.” And then… you follow up and go. The idea is to spend time with someone you’re enjoying… isn’t it?

      If I can’t be bothered to seek him out for a third date, the guy in question is probably right to ghost.

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      • Parenting Says:

        The 3 date rule for sex is a thing. The 3 date rule for asking a guy out is not a thing. Expecting that the average woman will just magically know that you like to initiate the first two dates but not the third is just kind of weird.

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        • mxf Says:

          But does it matter if she knows that or not? I mean, do a lot of women let guys ask them out three or more dates in a row? I’m curious, I really would have thought that could be interpreted as lack of real interest on the woman’s part.

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          • fuzzilla Says:

            I see what you’re saying that of course a woman would make sure to show she’s interested (if she is), but saying, “I’ll ditch you unless you jump through XYZ specific hoop” just seems weird.

            As Goldie said, there’s a difference between specifically planning a date and simply stating your interest (“This was fun, can’t wait to do this again!”). I’d ghost on someone who didn’t seem interested, but if they’re keeping in touch and giving off an overall positive vibe, then who cares who sets up the date?

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            • Parenting Says:

              Exactly, theres a difference between showing appreciation and interest and specifically asking someone out. Its certainly his prerogative to pursue whatever he wants which sounds to me like aggressive women who are shy upfront but assuming that a woman is not interested or rude because she didn’t know that he wants submissive behavior for the first 2 dates and aggressive behavior by the 3rd date is silly.

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          • Goldie Says:

            Have to admit that I don’t recall ever asking a guy on a date early in the process. What I mean is, I don’t recall ever saying things after two dates with a guy like “I’d like to see you again. Are you free Friday evening? OK I’ll pick you up at eight then?” Of course I express interest and keep the communication open, but TBH I think I’d scare the guy off if I went ahead and planned the whole date that early on.

            When he’s my boyfriend, sure, I’ll suggest to him that we do this or that thing next weekend and make plans. But for someone I’ve had two dates with, um, that sounds… different? Is that something all other women do and I’m the only one that’s behind the times?

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            • mxf Says:

              Goldie, I think you’re in good company, it seems to be a consensus that a lot of other women are comfortable with. I think I’m the odd man (woman) out on this one. And I’m not even talking about appearing interested enough to be asked out again – I’m totally talking about calling the person up and suggesting a place or idea for the third date if I want to see them again. Although I’ve never picked anyone up with my car, but I think I’ve been picked up for a date exactly once ever anyway.

              I don’t see the behavior as submissive versus aggressive, it’s just making plans, and in some cases letting someone I liked know that I was thinking of them and wanted to see them again was just good flirting. Ultimately, if it unsettled a guy, I guess we’d be a bad fit anyway, right?

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              • K Says:

                Well it’s good to know that there is a woman who would pass TL’s test (I’m assuming if he has this rule others pass it too?). Anyhow just chiming in that I don’t think I typically ask out on a third date, nor do women I know. I think if the second date goes well you often talk about hanging out again. I would think that asking out post first date would be the hardest, b/c I send a lot of no thank yous for second dates. I think when I have had to be pro active for a third date, it’s usually been b/c I was being hopeful (hail mary), but the guy wasn’t that into me. Just my two cents.

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        • Bill Says:

          “The 3 date rule for sex is a thing. The 3 date rule for asking a guy out is not a thing.”

          I would put it a different way… guys want to see a reciprocated level of significant romantic interest by the 3rd date because he knew within 5 seconds that he wanted to have sex with you. So, sex will definitely do the job, lol! Interestingly enough, asking him out for the 3rd date usually works just as well, perhaps even better, strange as it sounds, especially if it’s not just sex that he’s after.

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  9. Jake Says:

    Guys also gauge whether a women is interested. I will ask out the first time, but if I don’t see any reciprocity or mirroring I bail. For example, if I’m doing all the work, such as always initiating, I bail. Too many women out there to waste time on a woman who expects a guy to do all the legwork. Those days are long gone and women who don’t adapt will be left in the dust.

    Also, oI pass on women who are difficult or require grit in a relationship. Personal preference.

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    • asker Says:

      So are you saying that even if the woman shows interest after the second date, you would ghost on her if she does not ask you out for the third date?! Man, I think that is a first!

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      • Bill Says:

        Not to put words in Jake’s mouth, but I read his comment as if the guy has to do all of the initiating, all of contacting, all of the asking out, all of the arranging to get together, then it comes across as either dis-interest or entitlement on the woman’s part. Some guys, who are looking for, or used to, a passive partner, eat that up. Others, who really are looking for a full partner in a strong, independent woman, find it a huge turn off, a red flag.

        While I wouldn’t say that it’s “essential” for the woman to ask the man out for the third (or a subsequent) date, I will say that it is REFRESHING! It’s different and dispels any notion he might have that you are just using him as a meal ticket… and any guy that’s dated very long has run into that… the woman who will happily go out over and over again with a guy for whom she has no romantic feelings, as long as he’s paying.

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  10. coffeestop Says:

    I have no problems letting somebody know I am interested but I have never gotten good results if I was the chaser online or IRL.

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  11. fuzzilla Says:

    I think the main takeaway from this whole thread is, not *all* initiation from women = chasing. Chasing is like when it’s a complete stranger or someone showing little interest and you follow them around like a puppy dog. Checking in with someone you’re already kinda-sorta seeing is not chasing.

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  12. starbucks Says:

    It seems like a lot of commentators here are so pessimistic and are almost hoping the guy is not interested. I know a lot of us are on this site because we’ve had issues with dating, but come on, the OP did mention that she’s only known this guy for 4 weeks – OP, I wish you have mentioned this in your letter – and some of you are already prying on those 4 weeks, i.e. did he kiss you, did he hold your hand? Not all relationships move that fast. I know it didn’t with me and my gf. She actually made the first move, which was the best thing to happen to me.

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  13. starbucks Says:

    Ahhh! you got me!

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