Stop Giving Assholes A Second Chance

 

2ndchaNCE

Question: Hi, Moxie-

OK, maybe this isn’t even a thing, but it made me uncomfortable, so I thought I would ask.

Went out with a guy I met online. The first date went well, although I found it somewhat odd that though he scheduled the date for 3 pm on a Saturday, he (unbeknownst to me) arranged to meet his 2 friends (a married couple) *at the same venue* at 4 pm on the same day. So they essentially showed up on our date not long after it started. The just-the-two of us part (all 55 minutes of it) had been going well, and the couple was nice and fun and I liked them a lot, but that’s still never happened to me before. (Someone inviting others on a date.) After they left, he told me that his thinking was, if I was cool and I looked like my pictures, then I’d clearly be ok to hang out with his friends. If I didn’t look anything like my pictures and I was a dud, then he could cut me loose with a legit excuse to bail. Um, ok. We went on to have dinner by ourselves after they left, and when the drinks came and we clinked glasses, he said “Cheers to you actually looking like your pictures.”

(Dude, I get it, you’ve online dated a LOT and you’ve gotten burned a LOT. It explains why you suggested coffee as a first date, scheduled the date for 3 pm, invited your friends to come along so you’d have an out, etc. Moving on….)

So on date 2, we’re (for whatever reason) talking about someone I went on a few dates with years ago that I recently ran into IRL. My date then launches into a conversation about how recently – on Tinder – he saw a woman he had met (previously, on Tinder) who had listed her age as 37. After they went on a few dates he discovered she was 41, not 37. He had caught her in a lie, it was uncomfortable, etc. So when he saw her on Tinder again listing her age as 37, he was apparently disappointed that his lecture to her about honesty didn’t sink in. He went on and on about it for some time. He then related a story about “his friend” (maybe it was him, who knows) who went out with a woman who claimed to be 30. They eventually slept together, and he rooted through her wallet when she was still sleeping in his bed. He found her ID in her wallet, and discovered she was actually 50.

So I said – “Wow – this seems to really be a concern for you –  if it would make you feel better, I’ll show you my ID – you just have to hand me my purse across the table because it’s on the chair next to you.”

To which he responds, “No, I don’t like when people offer to give you all of this “evidence.” It just makes it look like they’re hiding something more.” Um… what? Now it’s my fault?

I didn’t quite know how to handle this diplomatically. He’s the one who’s got the hangup because he’s been burned, and now, because I’m offering to allay that concern, he’s intimating that I’m the one hiding something. I felt like the whole conversation put me in a really uncomfortable situation.

This put the skids on what was otherwise a really good evening. I get that people go on other dates and sometimes share their bad experiences as a way of bonding, but what do you do when someone projects that sh** onto you? It made me feel very scrutinized, like I couldn’t win no matter what I did, and also like I must look old for my age or something to make him suspicious. I’m definitely not one of those “omg, I look soooo young for my age” but this certainly hasn’t happened before.

On some level, I get it. I went out with one guy on Tinder who ended up being married. Does it make me more skeptical? Yes, but I haven’t made any other subsequent date uncomfortable with that skepticism, I don’t think. I’m just more observant and ask more questions.

How do you handle people like this? Do you just indulge them? Is it just the nature of online dating now — people are guilty until proven innocent?
Age: 34, 2 months, 1 day
So on date 2…

Wait. What? Why would you go out with this guy again?

Let me first state that you submitted this letter. I only link to it to provide context.

This guy is not  a good guy. In fact, he’s kind of an asshole. Only the most socially maladjusted people use the “emergency phone call” trick to get out of blind dates. If he couldn’t sit there for an hour and make pleasant conversation despite not feeling an attraction, he’s a bad person. That’s it. No discussion. For him to actually admit to doing that only proves how socially tone deaf and obnoxious he is. He should have been embarrassed to confess to setting that escape plan up, but he wasn’t. You’ve asked me before if you’ve overlooked red flags and here we are again with you turning a blind eye to rude behavior.

We went on to have dinner by ourselves after they left, and when the drinks came and we clinked glasses, he said “Cheers to you actually looking like your pictures.”

I legitimately want to set this cocksucker on fire. He may as well have said, “Yeah, cheers to you for not being an uggo fattie!” This man lacks compassion and kindness.

So when he saw her on Tinder again listing her age as 37, he was apparently disappointed that his lecture to her about honesty didn’t sink in

Aww. Poor mansplainer. His lecture about online dating protocol didn’t go over well.

So I said – “Wow – this seems to really be a concern for you –  if it would make you feel better, I’ll show you my ID – you just have to hand me my purse across the table because it’s on the chair next to you.”

I hate everything about this letter, but this most of all. Why are you indulging this creep? Why are you constantly trying so hard? Stop. I know that sounds harsh but, really, you have to develop higher standards.

To which he responds, “No, I don’t like when people offer to give you all of this “evidence.” It just makes it look like they’re hiding something more.” Um… what? Now it’s my fault?

He wasn’t saying it was your fault. He was actually jizzing himself at how eager you were to prove to him that you weren’t a liar.  I’m not even sure why his stupid story about finding out his date was older than she said made you feel scrutinized. It appears you were the one to open the door to stories like that when you “happened” to bring up running into an ex.

My god. Talk. Less.

How do you handle people like this? Do you just indulge them? Is it just the nature of online dating now — people are guilty until proven innocent?

You seem to be missing the mark entirely where this guy is concerned. Who gives a flying fuck if this guy thinks you’re lying? He’s an asshole. He’s treated you poorly from the moment you met him. He’s arrogant. And he’s rude. Why do you continue to pursue men who clearly care nothing about your feelings?

How do I handle atypically paranoid or cynical people? I make up an excuse and I walk away. I don’t tolerate that kind of crazy. I’m not going to throw myself down on the sword to prove to some stranger that I’m a good person. I know I’m a good person. Fuck them if they don’t see it. Everybody who has ever dated online has been deceived or disappointed. Why does this snowflake think he’s so special?

I know I said earlier that there’s nothing wrong with giving a guy  a second chance, but that’s only if they haven’t revealed themselves to be callous douchebags upfront.

 

Thoughts?

AndThatsWhyYoureSingle.com

Sometimes the love of your life is the love of your life. (R)

@ATWYSingle

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17 Responses to “Stop Giving Assholes A Second Chance”

  1. coffeestop Says:

    I got invited by a guy I met online to go see some live music then he casually texts me as I am on the way to tell me there will be two other couples there. I felt like I was at an audition, he was not an asshole but we did not get to talk much and I was having to act like the new girlfriend five seconds after I met this guy. It was weird and even though he seemed pleasant, I never wanted to go out with him again.

    The OP is probably a nice person which is why this dude weirded her out. She does not know how to handle assholes. I am at the piont now where I would have the balls to just get up and leave.

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  2. Katie Says:

    Yeah, I agree with Moxie, this guy sounds flat out awful. Seriously, it’s a coffee date – those dates rarely last more than an hour or two, there should be no reason to have friends swoop in and save him from a “horrible” date. I’m actually kind of surprised the guy has friends, based on his behavior on the date. Who actually cheers to people looking like their photos online?

    He’s not worth a third date, he’s not worth any additional effort, and he’s not worth worrying about. End of story.

    (Not the OP)

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  3. Yvonne Says:

    Wow, this man sounds like a clueless nitwit. I will tell you another aspect that irks me, and that’s his story about his “friend” who slept with the much older woman.

    First off, you’re right, it probably was your date and not some friend. But also, he somehow seems to think that a man is justified in rifling through a woman’s personal belongings in order to prove that she was lying. However, her suspected lack of honesty didn’t prevent him from having sex with her. Far from it. Believe me, the “friend” knew that this 50 year old woman wasn’t 30, but it was acceptable initially because he wanted to get laid. Only after he got what he wanted did her age and her honesty become an issue. What a hypocrite.

    There are some pretty big red flags popping up about this guy, and you are only 2 dates in. Why would you want to stick around to see what’s next?

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    • Bill Says:

      Moxie, Yvonne and the others are right! Unless the OP is playing red-flag bingo, she should drop this turkey ASAP and not look back.

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  4. bbdawg Says:

    People like this, online dating or “real life”, are not worth spending time with.

    Complaining about others is a very unpleasant thing to witness, especially when the complaints are so shallow. A man complaining about a woman’s age, or a person “not looking exactly like their photo” is like a woman complaining about a man’s job. Compared to ACTUAL complaints like, wow this man I just met is actually married, a person “not looking exactly like their photo” is really just part of online dating.

    The first time I went on an online date back in 2013, I met someone who was clearly 10+ years older than what he claimed but the person kept mentioning the ages of the women he had dated and I couldn’t understand why. Then I eventually got it. It means the person only sees you as a number. You are a means to an end. His ego needs to be validated with numbers. These types of men are really not worth pursuing ever because they are the classic “avoidant” types: they never have lasting relationships with anyone.

    I used to be super polite on dates but these days if I ever went back to online dating I’d probably just tell the person what I am thinking (“that sounds like you’re focusing on really shallow aspects of dating”) and just wish them well and leave. Life is too short to be dealing with extreme negativity.

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    • Eliza Says:

      I agree with bbdawg…discussion past negative experiences about dating in general…online or otherwise is NOT a good topic – for any date, especially your first. It’s just negative, and there is so much else to focus on…hobbies, music, travel, pets, etc….why go on and on complaining about ANYTHING for that matter. It just sets a very dismal tone to a first impression. As soon as hear such negativity…I get up and excuse myself…seriously, nobody has the time for such nonsense. And to try to win the approval of such a nitwit??! Why??

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  5. JayD Says:

    OP, People will treat you the way based on what you accept from them. How do you handle people like this? Just don’t.

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  6. D. Says:

    From a guy’s perspective:

    Yeah, this dude’s just a dick.

    I mean, sure, everyone who does online dating has a few horror stories to share. Sometimes they’re fun as icebreakers, but otherwise, it’s better not to dwell on past dates.

    And yeah, everyone’s had the experience of someone showing up and not quite matching their pictures or having fudged their age. Shit happens. It’s not the end of the world, and it’s not, like, stealing state secrets and selling them to the Chinese or whatever. If someone does that and it bugs you, you ride it out for an hour of pleasant enough chitchat, then say “Well, I gotta be up early for work, so I’d better call it a night” or you can be up front and say “Thanks for meeting up, but I don’t see this progressing. Good luck out there!” You don’t lecture them on the fact that they weren’t honest. Why? Because they know they weren’t honest, and if they were really concerned with the fallout, they wouldn’t be dishonest in the first place.

    But even aside from that stuff, the entire undercurrent from the first date is that this is a guy who is incapable of trusting, or who is at the very least “dating defensively.” In other words, this is not a guy who’s gonna be a lot of fun to date. He’ll be paranoid, cynical, maybe bitter, all while looking for some ray of hope to latch on to, meaning that he can turn from cynical to super-clingy once he finds that ray of hope.

    Once you realize this about another person, you are perfectly justified in deciding you don’t want to date them. Not everyone deserves a second chance. Not everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. And you are not a bad person if you decide “Nah. Not really feelin’ it” based on stuff like what this guy did in Date #1, let alone Date #2.

    How do you handle people like this? Simple:

    You don’t.

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  7. Parenting Says:

    OP, get help. Figure out why you are so desperate to gain the approval of guys you yourself believe are ass holes.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

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    • Eliza Says:

      Thanks Parenting…I agree fully. It truly amazes me how some women will waste their valuable on such class A assholes. Seriously. Why the OP even stayed for dinner, after his absurd announcement of that escape plan is beyond my comprehension. Why admit to such immaturity. We all know the trials and tribulations that go with online dating…we have all been there…and it was a lame coffee date anyway–if the person shows up – and does not meet your expectations, you merely have a light conversation and just end on a friendly note, excuse yourself and wish them well…No need to get another couple to meet up with you, or have some stupid escape plan in place. What a dumbass this guy is…and then him admitting the other inappropriate behavior. The OP truly needs to self-examine her poor judgment in terms of character choices in men.

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  8. The D-man Says:

    I suggest skip “the make up an excuse” part and instead just give it to him with both barrels: “you’re an asshole. I don’t date assholes. Bye.” There’s a small chance that he’ll develop some self-awareness from that.

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  9. em Says:

    This guy has no place explaining OLD to anyone when he hasn’t figured out one of the simplest truths in dating/life: bitter is not a good look for anyone, regardless of your sex, orientation, weight or age.

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  10. Kaginn Says:

    Time’s passed. You and this person had a semi-disastrous break up but it’s whatever at this point. You’ve started to miss their jokes and remember the good times again. You think there’s a chance that you’re willing to give the pre-boning relationship another shot and friendzone each other’s asses. Jerry and Elaine were exes, you know?

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  11. Thadeus Says:

    This guy was seriously suffering from dating burnout. Wow. I get feeling cynical and having that..’Waiting for the shoe to drop’ mentality, but I still remain civil and not assume all women are the same. Not fair to her.

    Yeah, she’s way too forgiving.

    The guy admitting he went through a woman’s personal belongings is appalling. I wouldn’t trust him near anything I owned. What a conniving creep.

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  12. Sarah Says:

    This sounds like the kind of guy who will have you locked in a sound-proof room with no windows by the time you’ve DTR’d. Creepy, intrusive, paranoid. Check, check, check. And that’s why he’s single.

    In all seriousness though, someone really should check his basement/attic/shed/car trunk/closet…

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  13. ? Says:

    Moxie, you said …”If he couldn’t sit there for an hour and make pleasant conversation despite not feeling an attraction, he’s a bad person. That’s it. No discussion”

    This could backfire on you though. Did that with two guys and at the end of the evening, they thought they were “all in” and wanted a second date/continue the evening further at my place…etc. Then got upset when it became clear that this was no going to happen, accusing me of “wasting” their time and/or leading them on.

    Maybe guys and gals who cut a date short just aren’t into that sort of drama.

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  14. ? Says:

    Maybe this guy just has really really bad social skills ? Admitedly guys in their 30s (which I am assuming he is) should have gotten their act together before going on dates, but you get the odd one or two who are just so socially retarded. Maybe they can never learn or be trained. Some (probably many) are just high functioning autistics. I sympathise with these guys because my son is one of them.

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